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View Full Version : PD Referendum - Troy Murphy



OakMoses
05-08-2007, 10:57 AM
To refrain from coloring anyone's opinion before they vote, I'll not comment.

LG33
05-08-2007, 11:09 AM
Of all the bad things to come out of New Jersey, "Toy" Murphy (because he gets played with) may just be the worst. The guy can't defend. He can't create his own shot. He's a poor man's Mehmet Okur (who himself is a poor man's Rasheed Wallace). He'd be better off coaching some Minor League baseball team. I'm sure he's a decent human being and all, but so was Eddie Gill. Worst of all, he's taking valuable minutes away from Jeff Foster (who I'd prefer to start shooting rather than keep Murphy out there)...Granted, he's a better compliment for Jermaine (because he is a threat to shoot, not necessarily to score, from outside), but he ain't no Brad Miller.

ChicagoJ
05-08-2007, 11:24 AM
-snip- but he ain't no Brad Miller.

And that's the rub. I know I was one of those that expected Troy to make us forget entirely about Foster and collectively say to ourselves, "Well, he's not Brad Miller, but this lineup is working pretty well, too."

I've been largely disappointed, and frankly he's the only player I've been disappointed in with this trade. Not in his offense, I think its fine, but his rebounding and toughness. I didn't expect him to be a capable defender, so even though he's proving that correct I'm not upset about it. But I was under the impression he could be a "rugged" rebounder but I'm now convinced his rebounding stats on the west coast were inflated somehow. Oh I know he actually got the rebounds he was given credit for. But like Jeff, he can't rebound in a crowd, he just excels at chasing down the ball. Whoop-de-doo.

Jeff is not very strong physically, but he's mentally tough. Troy is weak, physically and mentally. And vastly overpaid.

BlueNGold
05-08-2007, 09:56 PM
I have an admission. I expected Murphy to be better than Foster. Obviously, that was wrong. Smurph has been an utter disappointment. Terrible defensive player. Not nearly as good on offense as I thought. Not even as good of a rebounder. He is merely a bench player who makes Austin Croshere look like an all-star.

ABADays
05-08-2007, 10:04 PM
I think we will see a lot better year from him next year. Maybe I'm trying for a last minute "Sunshine Poster of the Year" write-in.

BlueNGold
05-08-2007, 10:15 PM
I think we will see a lot better year from him next year. Maybe I'm trying for a last minute "Sunshine Poster of the Year" write-in.

I don't ever want to see him try to guard Rasheed Wallace. That was like taking candy from a baby. I have never witnessed anyone score on another frontcourt player as easy.

Shade
05-08-2007, 10:15 PM
He makes Brad Miller look like Dikembe Mutombo in his prime on the defensive end.

If his shot isn't falling, he's a complete liability.

ajbry
05-08-2007, 10:30 PM
His ceiling was being an overrated player on an awful team in which he could seem like a good player with his misleading stats. He ain't anything useful on a good team with championship aspirations.

Then you add in his defense and his contract into the equation...

Unclebuck
05-08-2007, 10:33 PM
I know I was one of those that expected Troy to make us forget entirely about Foster




You've been waiting for that to happen for years as you continue to underestimate Jeff. As I've said for years, I'm all for Jeff coming oiff the bench, but good luck finding someone who forces Jeff to the bench.

There is no doubt that Brad Miller has been a better player than Troy, but not anymore, Brad's game has fallen off substantially. At this point I'd rather have Troy and I'm not a fan of Troy's game.

The only thing that has surprised me somewhat about Troy is his poor rebounding - he just isn't a good rebounder. But I knew Dunleavy was a much better player than Troy, I just didn't know it was this big of a gap

Hicks
05-08-2007, 10:44 PM
He was a disappointment for me. I thought he was a better scorer/rebounder than this. I was hoping his defense was simply mediocre, but it's bad.

avoidingtheclowns
05-08-2007, 10:52 PM
murphy has done nothing that remotely impresses me since he got here.

Alpolloloco
05-08-2007, 10:56 PM
Didn't he have some injuries in the first half of the season? Maybe that has been holding him back in the scoring/rebounding department.

Perhaps fully healthy next year he can be a more solid performer for us, albeith I don't expect anything on the defensive end.

Kegboy
05-08-2007, 10:59 PM
It's one thing for Donnie to say that a wing like Dunleavy needs to get stronger to be effective, it's another to say that about a Big who's been in the league 5 years.

JayRedd
05-09-2007, 12:37 AM
but he ain't no Brad Miller.

Dude aint even no Brad Lohaus.

Jose Slaughter
05-09-2007, 02:18 AM
I remember Murphy being a little bigger than he looked once we got him. Even thou its been a couple years since I've really watched him on a regular basis.

I'm hoping that he can bulk back up over the summer & get back to playing like he did his first 2 or 3 years in the league.

CableKC
05-09-2007, 02:28 AM
I was far more disappointed in Murphy then in Dunleavy. Dunleavy was able to surprise me and show me that he is worth keeping.....despite his contract. I always knew that Murphy was a defensive liability....so his lack of defense was not a surprise....it was his inconsistency on the offensive and rebounding end is what really disappointed me. That's all he was supposed to be able to do...but he wasn't able to really step up and perform.

Between Dunleavy and Murphy inconsistencies on the offensive end...its like Dunleavy was able to contribute 1 out of 2/3 games...but with Murphy...he only seemed to contribute 1 out of 4/5 games. These obviously aren't exact #s, but when Murphy was aggressive and attacked the basket....we were really surprised....but it got to the point where I forgot that he was even playing.

MagicRat
05-09-2007, 07:18 AM
I remember Murphy being a little bigger than he looked once we got him. Even thou its been a couple years since I've really watched him on a regular basis.

I'm hoping that he can bulk back up over the summer & get back to playing like he did his first 2 or 3 years in the league.

That's my hope, too. Here's to hoping he either lifts weights or does some push-ups this summer..........:cheers:

CableKC
05-09-2007, 09:15 AM
After his 3rd season ( when he got injured and played only in 28 games ), I really think that Murphy has shied away from the type of contact that made a solid "double double" guy in his first 2 seasons with Golden State.

Especially with that recurring Nose injury that he gets from time to time.....its obvious that he doesn't play at the level of aggressiveness that a PF needs to play in the nba in order to be successful.

What I haven't noticed...until I look at it now...is that Murphy's stats are really down this last season...compared to his last ocuple of seasons. He averaged 4 less rebounds and about 3 less points this season compared to the previous 2 seasons.

I really wonder if he is in some way injured. Not counting his rookie season.....his 2006-2007 stats are somewhat comprable to his 2003-2004 stats....the only year that he was injured.

Roferr
05-09-2007, 09:39 AM
The Murph we saw play with us is not the player he was in the first 3 years. He was a solid rebounder and would bump and grind with anyone. The scouting reports were that he wouldn't back down even if it came to fisticuffs.

As someone pointed out, that maybe it's due to the injuries he's sustained and he's a little timid. However, if he returns to the level of his previous play (which I think he will), he will put up greater numbers.

I don't think he's been with the squad long enough to know what kind of big man he can be. I'm not ready to condemn him as he's shown that he can be a double-double player, playing in the West where good big men abound.

Hicks
05-09-2007, 09:45 AM
I can't express how badly I hope you guys are right. That he was hurt and that earlier in his career he was a tough player. I have no idea about the injury, but I could have sworn he had a rep. as a tough guy in his early GS days.

MagicRat
05-09-2007, 09:52 AM
The Murph we saw play with us is not the player he was in the first 3 years. He was a solid rebounder and would bump and grind with anyone.

Unfortunately the one the Pacers got couldn't bump or grind with Vince Carter..........
http://chaos.able-towers.com/~magicrat/IMG_26371.jpghttp://chaos.able-towers.com/~magicrat/IMG_26381.jpg

LG33
05-09-2007, 09:54 AM
Vince Carter plays defense?

Skaut_Ech
05-09-2007, 10:22 AM
The Murph we saw play with us is not the player he was in the first 3 years. He was a solid rebounder and would bump and grind with anyone. The scouting reports were that he wouldn't back down even if it came to fisticuffs.

As Cable pointed out, that maybe it's due to the injuries he's sustained that he's a little timid. However, if he returns to the level of his previous play (which I think he will), he will put up greater numbers.

I don't think he's been with the squad long enough to know what kind of big man he can be. I'm not ready to condemn him as he's shown that he can be a double-double player, playing in the West where good big men abound.

Troy took some time to come back mentally from being injured. I'm a fan of his and have followed him, in particular, for years. You gotta look at the big picture with Troy.

He was a mid-round, 1st round pick, yet because he showed such promise BEFORE his injuries, expectations went through the roof. Not his fault. It's not like he's ever been one of those chest thumper, braggers, who overhypes himself.

The problems came when he got injured...repeatedly. Troy kinda went into a shell where he seemed to play afraid of being hurt. It really took him a while to come out of it. On top of things, as he was trying to rediscover himself, they tried running the offense through him in the low post and he just ain't that guy. It was a bad fit, so people looked at that double-double season, saw his struggles and started blasting him. Wasn't fair and wasn't his fault.

Most recently, Nellie started chipping away at his confidence by relentless benching him when he was playing well, which threw Troy as to it's meaning, and then making public comments about Troy. (He did the same thing to Diogu, but MUCH worse, saying how he doesn't know if Ike will ever "get it" about playing in the NBA.)

How to you regain your toughness when you have a coach who publically doesn't believe in you? :confused:

I think all Troy needs is a coach who believes in him and a defined role and I think you'll see the tough player from a few years ago.

I've said this before, but some players are very situational about being productive. I always point to Chauncey Billups as the most glaring example. Billups needed the right situation to flourish. I'm sure people were saying, "he's been in the league this long, no reason he'll get any better"...right before he became a Piston.

I think Troy is in a great situation here and if he's not relegated to a three pointer, Chris Mullin type role, he'll grow back into the player from years past. You gotta remember that Troy has a great reputation, going back to collge, of being a very coachable player. Couple that with his rebounding capacity and range out past the three point line, well. I'm a fan of hgis...despite his slow-footed ways.

Give us a smart coach who doesn't play head game and has a vision of what he wnats from the team and I'll show you the Troy Murphy os yhears past.

Roferr
05-09-2007, 10:30 AM
Troy took some time to come back mentally from being injured. I'm a fan of his and have followed him, in particular, for years. You gotta look at the big picture with Troy.

He was a mid-round, 1st round pick, yet because he showed such promise BEFORE his injuries, expectations went through the roof. Not his fault. It's not like he's ever been one of those chest thumper, braggers, who overhypes himself.

The problems came when he got injured...repeatedly. Troy kinda went into a shell where he seemed to play afraid of being hurt. It really took him a while to come out of it. On top of things, as he was trying to rediscover himself, they tried running the offense through him in the low post and he just ain't that guy. It was a bad fit, so people looked at that double-double season, saw his struggles and started blasting him. Wasn't fair and wasn't his fault.

Most recently, Nellie started chipping away at his confidence by relentless benching him when he was playing well, which threw Troy as to it's meaning, and then making public comments about Troy. (He did the same thing to Diogu, but MUCH worse, saying how he doesn't know if Ike will ever "get it" about playing in the NBA.)

How to you regain your toughness when you have a coach who publically doesn't believe in you? :confused:

I think all Troy needs is a coach who believes in him and a defined role and I think you'll see the tough player from a few years ago.

I've said this before, but some players are very situational about being productive. I always point to Chauncey Billups as the most glaring example. Billups needed the right situation to flourish. I'm sure people were saying, "he's been in the league this long, no reason he'll get any better"...right before he became a Piston.

I think Troy is in a great situation here and if he's not relegated to a three pointer, Chris Mullin type role, he'll grow back into the player from years past. You gotta remember that Troy has a great reputation, going back to collge, of being a very coachable player. Couple that with his rebounding capacity and range out past the three point line, well. I'm a fan of hgis...despite his slow-footed ways.

Give us a smart coach who doesn't play head game and has a vision of what he wnats from the team and I'll show you the Troy Murphy os yhears past.

Your post makes a lot of sense. I think Murph will be a top-notch player for us. I only hope we obtain the right coach who will give him the chance.

Ragnar
05-09-2007, 11:06 AM
We would have been better off buying Jack off than taking muphyleavy

ChicagoJ
05-09-2007, 11:30 AM
Give us a smart coach who doesn't play head games and has a vision of what he wants from the team and I'll show you the Troy Murphy of years past.

I hope you're right.


I don't ever want to see him try to guard Rasheed Wallace. That was like taking candy from a baby. I have never witnessed anyone score on another frontcourt player as easy.

That was ugly - I mean u-g-l-y. My eyes still have scars from witnessing that.


You've been waiting for that to happen for years as you continue to underestimate Jeff.

No, you continue to overestimate Jeff. :tongue:

Jermaniac
05-09-2007, 11:41 AM
Dude I wrote a post SO GOOD. Yesterday and PD went down again as soon as I was about to post it. Since I dont feel like writing it again. I'm just gonna say that Troy Murphy is the worst player on this team.

JB's Breakout Year
05-09-2007, 11:43 AM
As a few of you have already pointed out, it is more about mental than physical to me. He was PASSIVE for the majority of his minutes with us this year.

He's shown flashes of putting the ball on the floor and finishing strong at the rim. He's a very reliable shooter. Good teammate. He has some things that make him a valuable piece.

If he gets back to a consistently aggressive mentality, I will be glad that he's a Pacer. A new coach may help him with his role as much as anybody on this team.

Skaut_Ech
05-09-2007, 11:46 AM
I was looking through some old bookmarks and thought I'd share this with you. I think it kind of illustrates the changes Troy has been through and his adaptability. Not the year of the article.:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.sports.basketball.nba.gs-warriors/msg/479abd78eae90f0f?dmode=print&hl=en

CCT: Murphy adjusts by adding bulk

Robin Miller <complex....@cox.net>
Posted on Sat, Jul. 13, 2002

Murphy adjusts by adding bulk
Warriors' plan calls for the power forward to play at center sometimes

By Matt Steinmetz
CONTRA COSTA TIMES

LONG BEACH - Throughout Troy Murphy's rookie season -- the one that
started with a bang but seemed to end with a shrug of the shoulders --
Warriors coaches and management maintained they liked him as a player.

They said they liked his work ethic, his ability to knock down the
perimeter jumper and his general feel for the game. So if they liked him
so much, why are they asking him to become a different player?

Last season, the Warriors considered Murphy a power forward, with the
long view of having him evolve into someone who also could play small
forward. This season, the Warriors still think of Murphy as a power
forward, but the plan is to play him some at center.

Murphy is doing his part to work with the Warriors on their latest
scheme, which was born partly out of the drafting of Mike Dunleavy, a
small forward, and partly out of the sometimes extended ineffectiveness
of the team's pivot players.

"I really don't care where they play me," said Murphy, who has bulked up
noticeably and now carries 245 pounds on his 6-foot-11 frame. "They can
play me at point guard if they want. Hey, I'll do whatever they have in
store for me."

The subtle shift in the Murphy game plan began at the end of the season,
when he began working out daily with Warriors strength and conditioning
coach Mark Grabow. It continued when the Warriors drafted Dunleavy in
June, which the team said will lead to Antawn Jamison's becoming the
team's starting power forward. And it plays out again tonight, when
Murphy will take the floor for the Warriors' summer league team against
the Dallas Mavericks.

Murphy is playing alongside Dallas' Wang Zhizhi, who is not the most
physical of players. That means Murphy is doing the heavy banging
against the likes of the Los Angeles Lakers' Mark Madsen and Phoenix's
Alton Ford and Jake Voskuhl.

"Any player who is looking to get onto the floor, when that player can
play multiple positions, it enhances his chances of playing," Warriors
general manager Garry St. Jean said. "It's possible he could play some
center, and I don't know that you could have said that at the end of the
season. He's gone to work."

Murphy doesn't look entirely comfortable in his new role, but he did
show big-time improvement from the Warriors' first game to their second.
In his first game, Murphy picked up six fouls -- mostly while guarding
Madsen and Jelani McCoy -- in only 18 minutes. Lucky for him, summer
league rules allow a player who accumulates six or more fouls to
continue playing.

Against Phoenix on Thursday, Murphy held his own against Ford, a
6-foot-9, 275-pound bruiser. Ford was one of the few Suns players who
struggled from the field, going only 4-for-12, in Phoenix's 149-126 victory.

"Last year, I would have been backed in and backed in until I was under
the basket," said Murphy, who averaged 5.9 points and 3.9 rebounds per
game his rookie season. "Now, I can absorb a hit and still get out and
contest a shot."

Murphy looked to be in solid form at the offensive end, scoring 29
points on 11-of-18 from the field -- including making his only 3-point
attempt. He also had nine rebounds, although only one came after the
first quarter. He doesn't subscribe to the theory that bulking up will
adversely affect his shot.

"It's actually helping increase my range," he said. "It's helped it
because I'm getting my legs into my shot. I think the shot will be flat
much less than it was. Now, I can shoot the 3, which I couldn't do last
year."

NOTE: The Warriors announced on Friday they had signed rookie guard Jiri
Welsch, whom they acquired in a June 26 draft day deal with
Philadelphia. Welsch signed a three-year contract worth approximately $4
million, with the Warriors having the option of picking up the fourth y

CableKC
05-09-2007, 12:57 PM
As a few of you have already pointed out, it is more about mental than physical to me. He was PASSIVE for the majority of his minutes with us this year.

He's shown flashes of putting the ball on the floor and finishing strong at the rim. He's a very reliable shooter. Good teammate. He has some things that make him a valuable piece.

If he gets back to a consistently aggressive mentality, I will be glad that he's a Pacer. A new coach may help him with his role as much as anybody on this team.
What's sad is that this very post can also apply to Dunleavy and ( even ) Granger.

I think that TPTB have to hire Tony Robbins to give all of them a "pep" talk.

Los Angeles
05-09-2007, 01:33 PM
I think it was Nellie that spoiled Murphy.

Murphy is big, Murphy is tough, Murphy is strong.

Then he gets injured and somes back into a system that wants to do nothing but run run run run run. What happens? He gets smaller, and is too tired to play good D.

I think everyone here underestimates ALL of the Pacers' big men, JO included.

Put Murphy under the right coach (one that will emphasis smash-mouth D and motion O) and Murphy will shine.

I don't want to give Murphy up unless we get a star player back.

You heard me. ;)

LG33
05-09-2007, 02:30 PM
Rawle Marshall is tougher and stronger.

MagicRat
05-09-2007, 02:38 PM
I don't want to give Murphy up unless we get a star player back.

You heard me. ;)

That's gotta be the pain meds talking......

d_c
05-09-2007, 02:38 PM
Many years ago, the Warriors made the mistake of trying to bulk Murphy up after he had a pretty good 2nd season. They had visions of a young Brad Miller.

The problem was that they bulked him up and he lost a lot of mobility and lift. On top of that, he really didn't get much stronger despite the added bulk. He still couldn't post up any guards. The photos of him futily trying to post up Vince Carter only to get pushed off the block and settle for a 15 footer illustrates this perfectly. Warrior fans referred to Murphy as a "skinny fat" guy who had the body of a New Jersey gas station attendant.

Even worse, the extra weight put more stress on his feet, and that's kind of why he's had on and off foot/heel problems ever since. As a Warrior fan, I blame the W's coaches/management a lot for mismanaging Murphy's development. I'm not saying they could have made him a superstar, but they could have made him a more effective role player. The problem was they tried making him into something that he wasn't. They should have just stuck with the lightweight version of Murphy that could catch and shoot mid range jumpers and occassionally take his man off the dribble.

And after his 2nd year, the guy has never looked physically fit enough to be an 82 game NBA starter. The prior season, he started the season off strong but began to wear down in January. By the end of the year, he was grabbing his shorts at the free throw line in the 1st quarter. I just don't know if he has the stamina/athleticism to play more than 30 minutes a game effectively. There was one game at home vs. the Nets where I saw Murphy working inside on the Nets' bigmen (Krstic/Collins) harder than I've ever seen. He did a great job establishing inside position on both ends of the floor and drawing fouls , but you could tell he was gassed. I never saw him play like that again.

As to Nellie ripping him and causing him to lose confidence, look at what Matt Barnes has said about Nellie. Just the opposite. Like most good coaches, Nellie has ripped into players to try to motivate them. You can't tell me that coaches like Phil Jackson and Pat Riley haven't done the same. In the pre-season after Monta Ellis had two bad games, Nellie said of Ellis "That's the 2nd game in a row where he's looked unprepared to play. Maybe he's trying to tell me that he doesn't want to start. Maybe that's a good thing."

Los Angeles
05-09-2007, 02:57 PM
That's gotta be the pain meds talking......

Just because nobody else can see my best pal Fred doesn't mean he's not real. See I even took a picture:

http://images.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_TN/0093-0604-1213-3247_TN.jpg

Skaut_Ech
05-09-2007, 03:47 PM
Just because nobody else can see my best pal Fred doesn't mean he's not real. See I even took a picture:

http://images.acclaimimages.com/_gallery/_TN/0093-0604-1213-3247_TN.jpg

Is that....a suppository?

MagicRat
05-09-2007, 03:54 PM
Is that....a suppository?

I guess now we know why nobody else can see "Fred"...........:eek:

Los Angeles
05-09-2007, 03:57 PM
:laugh:

Holy crap I need to catch my breath.

ChicagoJ
05-09-2007, 04:21 PM
I'm still waiting for the South Park version of LA to have a big gash on its leg.

pwee31
05-09-2007, 06:00 PM
I would have rather kept Primoz and his contract, to take up the space that Murph takes up. Yeah he hits a couple shots here or there, but c'mon!

I've become a fan of Dunleavy, I dunno why, but I think he can/will improve and will help this team a lot. BUT when I see Murph and I look at the rest of the Golden St. roster, I ask myself why?!

I would honestly take ANYBODY else off the Warriors roster in exchange for Murphy, and I mean ANYBODY!

LG33
05-09-2007, 06:58 PM
If Jax goes to jail, lets trade him back for Murphy.

Slick Pinkham
05-10-2007, 12:21 PM
I might get blasted for saying this, but here goes.

Last night I could help but notice how a good shooting but tissue-soft big man who likes to hover around the three point line can in fact be quite effective when there is a point guard who consistently gets him the ball at the right time.

I am not saying that Murph is as good as Mehmet Okur. But I do think that if Jerry Sloan were doing the coaching and Deron Williams were doing the passing, Murph could do most of the same things.

Conversely if Tinsley were the PG on Utah, Okur would be pretty much as useless as Murphy seemed to be this year.

Take home message: an offense that suits him, a point guard that finds him, and a coach that he believes in might make Murphy pretty useful as the1st big man off the bench or when it is necessary to spread the court.

Roferr
05-10-2007, 12:33 PM
I might get blasted for saying this, but here goes.

Last night I could help but notice how a good shooting but tissue-soft big man who likes to hover around the three point line can in fact be quite effective when there is a point guard who consistently gets him the ball at the right time.

I am not saying that Murph is as good as Mehmet Okur. But I do think that if Jerry Sloan were doing the coaching and Deron Williams were doing the passing, Murph could do most of the same things.

Conversely if Tinsley were the PG on Utah, Okur would be pretty much as useless as Murphy seemed to be this year.

Take home message: an offense that suits him, a point guard that finds him, and a coach that he believes in might make Murphy pretty useful as the1st big man off the bench or when it is necessary to spread the court.

You won't get blasted from me. I think you have made a very valid point.

Doug
05-10-2007, 01:24 PM
I really don't care if my PF can hit a 3-point shot or not. I don't want my PF camped out at the 3 point line. I want in or near the paint, unless he's setting a pick. Theoretically, I should have 3 players (SF, SG, PG), who are better 3 point shots than him.

I *do* want him to be able to hit an open 15-footer. Which Murphy can do. If Foster could hit a 15 footer, he'd probably damn near be an all-star in the East.