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View Full Version : PD Referendum - Jermaine O'Neal



OakMoses
05-07-2007, 04:26 PM
Seems appropriate to post this today.

indyman37
05-07-2007, 04:55 PM
I don't necessarily want to trade him but I don't want to just keep him here forever and never win anything either...

I feel like JO deserves a better opportunity to win than he does with this current Pacers team.

I voted for "work hard to trade" him because there wasn't a real in between answer to choose.

Dr. Goldfoot
05-07-2007, 04:57 PM
I voted get rid of him. I'm sick of watching him play. They've bent over backwards for this guy and nothing has come of it. He shoots his mouth off to the media. He shoots his mouth off to the refs. Remember he brought the Trailblazer culture with him to Indiana. He's toned down a little bit but he looks at/ spouts off to the refs after every offensive possesion. He doesn't hustle back down the court after a defensive stance. He doesn't use his greatest asset, his quickness, to blow by the oppostion. He's the 5th or something highest paid player in the league. He's extremely injury prone, another season riddled with injuries will all but void his trade value. He's stubborn to a fault. He's one of the worst shooting big men in the league (% wise). He doesn't get to the foul line enough. He hasn't made a clutch shot in awhile. He's actually kinda turnover prone for his position and actually led the team with only 69 games played. I blame him for the boring basketball I've had to watch for the last three seasons.

ABADays
05-07-2007, 05:03 PM
Option #2 is an ego impossibility.

Jermaniac
05-07-2007, 05:09 PM
Still God. Not much more to say about him.

Arcadian
05-07-2007, 05:11 PM
I think it's a mistake to trade him, but I'm preparing to see him go.

ChicagoJ
05-07-2007, 05:16 PM
Goldfoot, when has this team ever been built around JO?

At times, they've brought in his friends or traded away teammates that disrespected him. But they've never surrounded him with players that complimented his unique abilities, and other team's picked up on a gimmick defense that Stan Van Gundy used four years ago in the playoffs that will continue to work very well against JO/ the Pacers until they actually surround JO with the types of players that make the gimmick/ swarming/ triple-team defense pay for focusing all their efforts on one guy.

But that's less likely with every passing year. I assume he'll be traded this summer. Not that its in the best interest of the franchise to do so, but because our front office is too f:censored:king stupid to put a good lineup around him so they'll give up and try something different.

After watching the Pistons the other night, I think we should trade JO straight-up for Rip and rebuild around Reggie Miller, version 2.0. *That's* something Donnie and Larry do know how do to.

PaceBalls
05-07-2007, 05:20 PM
I voted get rid of him. I'm sick of watching him play. They've bent over backwards for this guy and nothing has come of it. He shoots his mouth off to the media. He shoots his mouth off to the refs. Remember he brought the Trailblazer culture with him to Indiana. He's toned down a little bit but he looks at/ spouts off to the refs after every offensive possesion. He doesn't hustle back down the court after a defensive stance. He doesn't use his greatest asset, his quickness, to blow by the oppostion. He's the 5th or something highest paid player in the league. He's extremely injury prone, another season riddled with injuries will all but void his trade value. He's stubborn to a fault. He's one of the worst shooting big men in the league (% wise). He doesn't get to the foul line enough. He hasn't made a clutch shot in awhile. He's actually kinda turnover prone for his position and actually led the team with only 69 games played. I blame him for the boring basketball I've had to watch for the last three seasons.


I agree with alot of what you said except the "Remember, he brought the Trailblazer culture with him to Indiana" That is a cheap shot. JO is a upstanding guy, never in trouble with the law.
Remember also, the Trailblazers were one of the best teams in the league when he was warming the bench. Was there another team with as many talented big men? It was being on that team that made him become a great player.

One point you have made is how they have bent over backwards to do everything possible for him. And that is what sucks the most. Every trade that has happened the last few years was because of him, or indirectly because of him. They got rid of all the other alpha dogs... and really tried to promote the feed the post slog ball.
So here we are, we did everything to build the franchise around JO and make it better and it's alot worse. It would be a shame to have directed all our energy towards building a team around this guy and then have to scrap it and end up the worst team in the NBA... But that looks like what's gonna happen.

I voted to see what he can do under a new coach for half a season. He is by far the best player on the team. The pacers success and the goal of getting back to the playoffs depend alot on the new coach and how JO is used in that offense.

LoneGranger33
05-07-2007, 05:24 PM
JO and I have a lot in common:
1) Both of us took two high school girls to the prom.
2) Both of us have abnormally large foreheads, but a headband makes it work.
3) Both of us have punched Pistons fans in the head (although I didn't slide).
4) Both of us want the Pacers to win and will do absolutely anything to see it happen.

And that last point is why we need to keep JO. Good guy. Great competitor.
We just need him to get healthy. And we should dole out the big bucks to a trainer to see to it!

ajbry
05-07-2007, 05:28 PM
Where's the "Deserves to move on to a better team, but liked him as a player" option?

PaceBalls
05-07-2007, 05:28 PM
Goldfoot, when has this team ever been built around JO?

At times, they've brought in his friends or traded away teammates that disrespected him. But they've never surrounded him with players that complimented his unique abilities, and other team's picked up on a gimmick defense that Stan Van Gundy used four years ago in the playoffs that will continue to work very well against JO/ the Pacers until they actually surround JO with the types of players that make the gimmick/ swarming/ triple-team defense pay for focusing all their efforts on one guy.

But that's less likely with every passing year. I assume he'll be traded this summer. Not that its in the best interest of the franchise to do so, but because our front office is too f:censored:king stupid to put a good lineup around him so they'll give up and try something different.

After watching the Pistons the other night, I think we should trade JO straight-up for Rip and rebuild around Reggie Miller, version 2.0. *That's* something Donnie and Larry do know how do to.


not to answer for Goldfoot, but I happen to agree with him.
So, I think you can look at Troy Murphy and Dun Jr as moves to make it easier for JO to operate in the post, the idea being more spacing and they cant double him as easily with the big man Murph outside.
I think trading AL the first time was a direct result of JO,
I think Ron wanting to leave was a direct result of JO, the whole alpha dog thing. And probably AL the 2nd time around. Do you really think if they thought they were going to trade JO this summer they would have traded AL? I don't.
Sjax... well I don't think I can put that one on them building around JO, that was more pressure from fans who became very disillusioned with him.

But even if they failed, the intent was there to build a team where JO could maximize his skills.

PaceBalls
05-07-2007, 05:30 PM
Where's the "Deserves to move on to a better team, but liked him as a player" option?

How does he deserve to move on to a better team? He OWES this franchise alot! This franchise deserve for him to tough it out through the rough times after everything they have done for him.

Hicks
05-08-2007, 09:28 AM
How does he deserve to move on to a better team? He OWES this franchise alot! This franchise deserve for him to tough it out through the rough times after everything they have done for him.

Exactly. You CAN NOT have it both ways when you want to be the "face of the franchise." If the team sucks, LOOK IN THE MIRROR.

Tom White
05-08-2007, 09:59 AM
Exactly. You CAN NOT have it both ways when you want to be the "face of the franchise." If the team sucks, LOOK IN THE MIRROR.


I'll agree here. JO's words at the end of the season, about how if the team is rebuilding it might be better for both sides if the Pacers trade me stuff, sounds nice and respectful (as usual), but sure sounds to me like "Thanks for the support and the millions of dollars, but a ring is more important to me than helping this franchise get back to the top.".

ChicagoJ
05-08-2007, 10:41 AM
I disagree strongly. The only two players that complimented JO well on the court were Reggie Miller and Brad Miller, and the next best was probably Jalen Rose. Peja was helpful at spreading the court but had his own baggage/ issues.

Tinsley, Marquis Daniels, Granger and perhaps Fred Jones are okay at complimenting JO's game, but they aren't good "#2" options, at least not yet.

Ron and Al always clogged up the lane/ got in JO's way.

AJ couldn't pass the ball to him to save his life. Saras and SJax were too streaky as shooters to rely on. Foster and Dale Davis didn't need to be guarded and allowed teams to double-team JO with a big.

Its possible that - for the first time in years - the team got players to compliment JO - Dunleavy, Murphy, and McLeod seem to fit better with JO and perhaps were the optimal players for a coach like Rick to work with. My concern is whether or not too much damage has already been done - especially to JO's knees. The process that began last summer but didn't really get started until January may be too little, too late.

JayRedd
05-09-2007, 12:42 AM
Where's the "Deserves to move on to a better team, but liked him as a player" option?

That's my actual vote.

Dude BUSTED HIS *** this year playing hurt and was the DPOY until the knee started really hindering him and keeping him out of games late in the year. If the entire team didn't collectively **** the dog down the stretch record-wise, you woulda still seen his name all over as a leading candidate for the DPOY award. Nevertheless, he warriored his way through it mostly and gave us all you can ask.

But it's probably time to part ways. For him...but mostly for us. We're going no where before his body breaks down in 2-3 years, so it really is time to sell high and get a few key parts to go along with Danny, Shawne and Ike.

JayRedd
05-09-2007, 12:52 AM
How does he deserve to move on to a better team? He OWES this franchise alot! This franchise deserve for him to tough it out through the rough times after everything they have done for him.

Done for him?!?!

You can talk about the money all you want, but there were many other GMs lined up to give him as much money as League rules allow.

The franchise has squandered three years of his prime (which we all know is gonna be shorter than most player's) with mis-management, remaining overly loyal to marginal players, handing out and collecting bad contracts, and making reactionary PR-related trades.

Now he's supposed to "tough it out" and hope for guys like Danny and Shawne to become All Stars because we have no draft picks, no cap room, no coach or any long-term plan to speak of?

All this while he's out hobbling around with busted knees, shoulders and ankles. Not sure he owes anything to anyone but Mrs. O'neal and his daughter.

Jermaniac
05-09-2007, 12:59 AM
I'm so mad I didnt vote for JayRedd as the rookie of the year.

Hicks
05-09-2007, 08:30 AM
I'm going to call Pat Riley and convince him he "owes it" to Dwyane Wade to trade him now that the Heat are done so he can win a title someplace else. The Lakers should trade Kobe, too. Houston "owes it" to McGrady and Yao to send them someplace with a third star. The Cavs need to realize they still aren't good enough once they're beaten and realize they "owe it" to LeBron to send him to a team with a star player to play Robin for him.

Dr. Goldfoot
05-09-2007, 08:13 PM
Just to clear up my "Blazers Culture" jab....I meant it more as he hasn't stopped *****ing to the refs. It was a huge problem his 1st two seasons here and everyone including local media types blamed it on his "upbringing" in Portland under such tutelage as Sheed. Then he was handed the reigns and I think that helped create such a volatile relationship with the refs over the years. Sure each has to man up to his own actions but when the team leader is staring down the ref, arguing calls, half-assing it back up the court what did we expect really?

I wasn't implying he brought the off-court stuff with him...at least I didn't mean to.

JayRedd
05-09-2007, 11:12 PM
I'm so mad I didnt vote for JayRedd as the rookie of the year.

I coulda had class....I coulda been a contender...I coulda been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am, let's face it.

Jermaniac
05-09-2007, 11:40 PM
If I voted for you then you could have told people Jermaniac voted for me.

Then they would go "Get the hell out of here. Jermaniac voted for you?"

Then you be like "Swear to God he did."

Then yall drink caprisun in the sunset.