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Hicks
05-07-2007, 12:59 PM
http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/0607_review_foster.html

I know many of you are going to focus on the other comments that will make you cry in rage, but I thought what I put in bold was interesting:

(On what changes he expects in the offseason)
"There were a lot of changes the last year. Who?s to say there won?t be a lot more or a little more? Whatever they feel needs to be done to be in the right frame of mind or right benefit to this organization (will be done) and try to move this thing forward in the right way."


(On what he thinks was the biggest reason the Pacers struggled)
"Any time you put eight or nine new guys on the team this past summer and then unload four more of those and add four more, it is tough to gel. At first there it seemed like we had gotten over the hump and we were going to be a successful team and a team that could go into the playoffs and maybe win a series. It obviously fell apart there at the end and we weren?t able to get to that point."


(On team chemistry)
"Last year it just wasn?t enjoyable to come to work at all. Even while we were losing 11 in a row ? I don?t know what we did after the trade ? being here with the guys was a lot better. We meshed better and guys liked each other. That definitely goes a long way to having a successful team and building a winner. We?ve got that stuff done. We have to go from there and learn how to play together and play the right way."


(On the improvement in team chemistry)
"It was a lot better than last year. It was more enjoyable being around everybody this year. I think last year that played a lot in our downfall. Guys just didn?t really like each other for whatever reason. They had grudges against someone. There was a little clique of guys that didn?t like a certain player. We didn?t have any of that this year. Even when we lost 11 in a row, it was still enjoyable to come in here and play every day to try to break that streak. We really are a cohesive unit here now finally which we couldn?t say for last year and hopefully that takes us in the right direction."

D23
05-07-2007, 01:06 PM
Yeah I read this earlier. What I found interesting was that twice he said people had grudges with a certain "player" (rather than players). I'm wondering if this was worded badly or if there really was one player on the roster that people had a grudge against... and if so, who was it?

Arcadian
05-07-2007, 01:09 PM
I knew it! AJ was the problem.

LoneGranger33
05-07-2007, 01:11 PM
That's certainly very interesting, and makes me feel a little better about next year. If they really are a cohesive unit, as Foster professes, it's probably best to keep Tinsley :)

LoneGranger33
05-07-2007, 01:12 PM
I knew it! AJ was the problem.

No you idiot. Fred Jones.
(Sorry for being so harsh, but it is so obvious it's not even funny)

ChicagoJ
05-07-2007, 01:17 PM
LG33, not sure I agree at all and it certainly isn't obvious.

I wonder if he's referring to Saras? AJ seems much more likely to me than Fred Jones as well, as the Saras/ AJ clash was bound to be noticed by the rest of the team.

MagicRat
05-07-2007, 01:45 PM
I wonder if he's referring to Saras? AJ seems much more likely to me than Fred Jones as well, as the Saras/ AJ clash was bound to be noticed by the rest of the team.

AJ clearly didn't like the "hoopla".........

Speed
05-07-2007, 01:49 PM
I bet TPTB loved that there was infighting, what a bunch lil whiney female dogs. Making a killer living, doing something they love and they have their feelings hurt and get mad at each other, what a weak bunch of little girls.


Sorry needed to vent for a second :)

ajbry
05-07-2007, 02:04 PM
I'm going to guess the two cliques that had most of the issues:

1) JO, Jack, JT
2) AJ and Fred

Group #1 were the best players and the starters. AJ and Fred felt they needed more playing time (and in AJ's case, he felt he should've been the full-time starter) - and were irritated that JO would side against them as the team leader.

Then you add in Croshere's "leadership" backed with no production, and more conflict ensues.

Cobol Sam
05-07-2007, 02:11 PM
I immediately thought of Artest when I read this. Or maybe Peja later in the season.

Just goes to show that there was plenty of conflict to go around in that group last year.

OakMoses
05-07-2007, 02:26 PM
I'm going to guess the two cliques that had most of the issues:

1) JO, Jack, JT
2) AJ and Fred

Group #1 were the best players and the starters. AJ and Fred felt they needed more playing time (and in AJ's case, he felt he should've been the full-time starter) - and were irritated that JO would side against them as the team leader.

Then you add in Croshere's "leadership" backed with no production, and more conflict ensues.

I thought I'd read multiple times that JO doesn't like JT and that he's lobbied in the past for him to be traded. Am I wrong about this?

ajbry
05-07-2007, 02:28 PM
I thought I'd read multiple times that JO doesn't like JT and that he's lobbied in the past for him to be traded. Am I wrong about this?

At this point, I wouldn't doubt it, but I've actually never heard anything like it. I always remember JO saying how important JT was to the team and all that.

ABADays
05-07-2007, 02:29 PM
I'm going to guess the two cliques that had most of the issues:

1) JO, Jack, JT
2) AJ and Fred

Group #1 were the best players and the starters. AJ and Fred felt they needed more playing time (and in AJ's case, he felt he should've been the full-time starter) - and were irritated that JO would side against them as the team leader.

Then you add in Croshere's "leadership" backed with no production, and more conflict ensues.

I once coached a 12-13 year old girls basketball team that was like this.

Kegboy
05-07-2007, 02:30 PM
Guys, seriously, the problem was Croshere. Look what he did to the Mavs.

:tongue:

Speed
05-07-2007, 03:04 PM
I once coached a 12-13 year old girls basketball team that was like this.


Girls that age actually whine less and listen better in sports, thats the main difference, really.

Anthem
05-07-2007, 03:06 PM
I thought I'd read multiple times that JO doesn't like JT and that he's lobbied in the past for him to be traded. Am I wrong about this?
You've read it multiple times because BBall has posted it multiple times... the only thing that was ever in print was a throw-away line on a Vescey story where JO supposedly asked TPTB to trade Mercer, Ron, and Tinsley (after Tinsley's rookie year). There was no corroboration that the report was correct, even Vescey didn't seem to take it that seriously, and JO and JT have said a lot of nice stuff about each other since then.

But once our resident Darksiders latch on to something, you know you're going to hear about it until everybody involved is gone.

Unclebuck
05-07-2007, 03:27 PM
Perhaps I am misreading this but I read this more as a pre-trade vs post-trade thing as opposed to a 2006 season vs 2007 season.

ChicagoJ
05-07-2007, 03:30 PM
Perhaps I am misreading this but I read this more as a pre-trade vs post-trade thing as opposed to a 2006 season vs 2007 season.

Its not worded very well.

One of the joys of Pacerland - when somebody actually says something interesting the writer does such a sloppy job with the details that you are never quite sure what they said, even though it is still interesting...

naptownmenace
05-07-2007, 03:31 PM
Perhaps I am misreading this but I read this more as a pre-trade vs post-trade thing as opposed to a 2006 season vs 2007 season.


I kinda thought that too at first but this line makes it seem like he's comparing the past 2 seasons:



(On team chemistry)
"Last year it just wasn't enjoyable to come to work at all.

Dr. Goldfoot
05-07-2007, 03:40 PM
Some it was post trade talk some of it he says last year vs this year. Alot of it was just stock pro athlete answers.

"There were a lot of changes the last year. Who's to say there won't be a lot more or a little more? Whatever they feel needs to be done to be in the right frame of mind or right benefit to this organization "

"Any time you put eight or nine new guys on the team this past summer and then unload four more of those and add four more, it is tough to gel."


This interested me.

"There was a little clique of guys that didn't like a certain player. We didn't have any of that this year."

Does that mean AJ, Crosh, Fred, Eddie Gill didn't like someone or was he being literal about this year and mean 2007 after the trade of Al & Jack. Either way all he really did was cast blame away from current players onto guys no longer with the team and claim everything is cool now and they just need to move forward and gel.

Shade
05-07-2007, 03:43 PM
I'm going to guess the two cliques that had most of the issues:

1) JO, Jack, JT
2) AJ and Fred

Group #1 were the best players and the starters. AJ and Fred felt they needed more playing time (and in AJ's case, he felt he should've been the full-time starter) - and were irritated that JO would side against them as the team leader.

Then you add in Croshere's "leadership" backed with no production, and more conflict ensues.

I think that Jack and Al were in a clique together, hence their being traded together.

Shade
05-07-2007, 03:44 PM
Perhaps I am misreading this but I read this more as a pre-trade vs post-trade thing as opposed to a 2006 season vs 2007 season.

That is my understanding as well, which pretty much narrows the player in question down to Jack, Al, or Saras.

QuickRelease
05-07-2007, 03:49 PM
I bet TPTB loved that there was infighting, what a bunch lil whiney female dogs. Making a killer living, doing something they love and they have their feelings hurt and get mad at each other, what a weak bunch of little girls.


Sorry needed to vent for a second :)

Why do people feel that making money exempts people from having feelings? Liking a job and making money doesn't mean that you're working in a good environment. All Jeff said was that the environment wasn't good. His salary and love for the game don't exempt him from feeling that way, nor does it make him wrong for expressing it.

Speed
05-07-2007, 04:26 PM
Why do people feel that making money exempts people from having feelings? Liking a job and making money doesn't mean that you're working in a good environment. All Jeff said was that the environment wasn't good. His salary and love for the game don't exempt him from feeling that way, nor does it make him wrong for expressing it.


Right, I'm supposed to feel sorry for them and their bad work environment. I should validate the players feelings more, good point.

Poor girls.

What is the world coming to, I blame class basketball. :)

Anyway, my point is, not just Jeff but any of them who don't give for the greater good of the team. I think Jeff is the one guy who always has.

What's sad is you really have to work hard to find those guys in the NBA, detroit, no offense Piston fans, are not the most gifted team in the league, but they sacrifice for each other, no whining about each other, they are a team in the true sense, look at the box score.

The trouble is finding guys talented enough and unselfish enough. Bird's went from one extreme to the other. We don't need no Milk Drinkers (i'm pretty sure thats how he said it too) to Its all about being a good guy from a good College program. So he had talent and who cares about self sacrifice, but now it's way less talent and good guys.

I know shocking, but back to my original point here, is let's not give dirty looks at our teammates while talking to our girlfriends over salad, let's Man up and get over it.

ABADays
05-07-2007, 04:46 PM
Girls that age actually whine less and listen better in sports, thats the main difference, really.

Well, unless they are PMSing :D

LoneGranger33
05-07-2007, 05:12 PM
LG33, not sure I agree at all and it certainly isn't obvious.

I wonder if he's referring to Saras? AJ seems much more likely to me than Fred Jones as well, as the Saras/ AJ clash was bound to be noticed by the rest of the team.

Nah, I was just playing. I love Fred Jones. Everyone loves Fred Jones. Except for Ben Wallace's older brother. Most people love Fred Jones.

Arcadian
05-07-2007, 05:18 PM
I knew you were joking when you called me an idiot. I love me. Everybody loves me. Except Ben Wallace's older brother. Most people love me.

LoneGranger33
05-07-2007, 05:19 PM
I knew you were joking when you called me an idiot. I love me. Everybody loves me. Except Ben Wallace's older brother. Most people love me.

Hahahah...nice

ajbry
05-07-2007, 05:30 PM
I think that Jack and Al were in a clique together, hence their being traded together.

I was talking about last year.

mildlysane
05-07-2007, 05:38 PM
Maybe JO was the player the clique didn't like. And so they traded them. Perhaps Al was just caught in the middle to make the trade work....or not.

McKeyFan
05-07-2007, 05:42 PM
I think the player disliked was Saras and the clique was Jax and Tins and to a lesser extent AJ and Freddy.

At least that's what it seemed like on the court. Although, later, Tins and Saras had some positive moments. But Jax icing out Saras was completely obvious.

I don't care if he wins three championships in a row. I'm glad his rebellious and selfish @ss is outa here. Sounds like Foster may agree.

BlueNGold
05-07-2007, 06:19 PM
JT and Jack are tight. The Club Rio Clique, you know. They were both Saras-haters.

For example, not sure if you guys recall that hilarious post of the Miami game where Saras hit a winning shot and everyone except Tinsley appeared to be celebrating. Also, I think I recall Jack being interviewed and implying that Saras needed to keep his mouth shut since he was a rookie.

I think Bird brought in Saras to be the starting PG, but it fell apart. I don't think JT or AJ appreciated that vote of confidence from Bird man. I think this was one of several core drivers in the disintegration of the team. JMO.

Roy Munson
05-07-2007, 06:40 PM
The clique was Freddy-JO-SJax, and the object of their dislike was AJ. This comes directly from Freddy.

Hicks
05-08-2007, 09:44 AM
The clique was Freddy-JO-SJax, and the object of their dislike was AJ. This comes directly from Freddy.

When did he say that?

ChicagoJ
05-08-2007, 10:04 AM
Don't forget where Roy's from (Oregon) and who's family he's known for years. I'm sure this isn't from a published source.

Unclebuck
05-08-2007, 10:07 AM
I wonder if JO can even be the leader of his own clique

Hicks
05-08-2007, 10:36 AM
Don't forget where Roy's from (Oregon) and who's family he's known for years. I'm sure this isn't from a published source.

I must have blanked out on that connection.

Although now I remember that a classmate of mine's friend used to sleep with Fred whenever he was in Chicago. :laugh:

FlavaDave
05-08-2007, 10:39 AM
Also, keep in mind that both Fred Jones and AJ were traded again at the deadline, and AJ was basically dumped.

ChicagoJ
05-08-2007, 10:48 AM
The clique was Freddy-JO-SJax, and the object of their dislike was AJ. This comes directly from Freddy.

Does this explain why JO only got to take 14 shots during AJ's last game as a Pacer? I've usually attributed that to AJ's incompetence, but perhaps it was sabotage or a less sinister motive for AJ's ballhogging.

grace
05-08-2007, 10:56 AM
Guys, seriously, the problem was Croshere. Look what he did to the Mavs.

:tongue:


It certainly wasn't Anthony. Look what happened to the Mavs after they sent him to Atlanta.

Oneal07
05-09-2007, 01:05 AM
LOL, Y'all Gossiping. . This is too funny

CableKC
05-09-2007, 01:32 AM
Funny....Foster's pictures looks like he's doing some Ad for "Roy's Big and Tall" :lol:

Speed
05-09-2007, 07:53 AM
Speaking of bad work environment that was mentioned earlier in this thread. I guess MLB has a buffet and beer in the clubhouse after a game. Maybe this was common knowledge, but I had no idea. And now Nellie who used to bring a beer in the post game press conference, can't anymore. Oh he can still have one at the stadium, but not at the Press Conference. Mike and Mike on ESPN says Phil Jackson used to have a beer and smoke in the hallway just before the press conference. Its really no big deal to me, its just funny how different life is in Pro sports, I think.

indygeezer
05-09-2007, 08:26 AM
It's all about image. Trying to seem more "family-oriented" the NBA wouldn't want to appear to be approving of alcohol when kids are watching (only throwing beer at hated players from the Pacers is allowed and goes unpunished).

Naptown_Seth
05-09-2007, 09:20 AM
I thought I'd read multiple times that JO doesn't like JT and that he's lobbied in the past for him to be traded. Am I wrong about this?
According to Jeff Foster you are.

See one issue not mentioned is that he says "This year" but then later specifically talks about the losing streak in a clearly post-trade manner.

So is he talking about moving - Fred, AJ, Croshere to alleviate the problems? Or is he talking about moving Saras and Jack (Al wasn't there the previous year to be part of the problem)?

I have to assume it was AJ based on his own comments and some rumblings, though Fred also clearly felt he should be starting.


And then you have Tinsley - one of the guys Rick was letting "get away with stuff" allegedly (like being late all the time) which was creating problems between the players...you know, the REASON THEY FIRED RICK.

Funny how Foster left that out, that animosity that was still "clearly" there during the losing streak when he was enjoying coming to work to try and break the streak.


So basically the worst ball they played during all 4 years under Rick came at a time when as a team they were happiest together. And them not liking RC or the situation was a problem why exactly?


This ties to a question I have for many of you about Jackson. You say Jack is a cancer, but why? What RESULTS tell you that he makes a team sick? GS looks HEALTHIER, and even if you dispute that being Jack's doing, if he is a cancer he should have ruined them instead of being a neutral effect (let alone them getting better). Add to this that the Pacers should have gotten better without him just due to the team health, but again that didn't happen.


So I wonder why it is when all these problems are being cured that everything is getting worse. Could it be that some of the issues weren't really issues after all?



For example, not sure if you guys recall that hilarious post of the Miami game where Saras hit a winning shot and everyone except Tinsley appeared to be celebrating.
I posted that (including photos). However there were other times that Tinsley seemed most happy when he was paired with Saras because of the type of ball movement they had together. For all the freeze out talk I heard I rarely saw it myself. Saras flat-out played himself out of the rotation by not protecting his dribble and by losing his shot, but at some point Tins seemed to warm up to Saras IMO.


I can certainly believe Roy's version of the situation. Let's not forget that one of the biggest post-game carpers was AJ. Let's also remember that when Saras was signed two player didn't come to camp early - Tinsley and....AJ. It was AJ who lost his starting spot to Saras, not Tinsley.

For that Miami game I will admit that it might have been possible that Tins was just overall frustrated and took it out on Saras (by not enjoying his big play) rather than being upset specifically because it was Saras making the shot.


Let's give Tins one break here, for all the times he's been benched for Anderson, AJ, and Saras he hasn't gone complaining to the press (that I recall). I think he does have motivation/discipline issues (drinking? lateness?) but I'm not as sure that he has bitterness issues with many players.

Naptown_Seth
05-09-2007, 09:25 AM
Add-on - Buck and Jay did discuss the "this year", what does that mean exactly aspect of the story. My bad, and I agree obviously that it's a little confusing. Where's the follow-up question to clarify "year" vs "season"?