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Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

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  • #1

    Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

    I hope my thread title isn't deceiving. But Sam Smith is throwing out wild trade scenerios again, You'll likely get a good laugh out of what he thinks we could get from the Knicks. Has JO's trade value fallen that much. Although he does say something I've never seen before and somehting I really hadn't considered. I always thought Tinsley would have to be traded in a separate deal, but SS is suggesting that JT would be traded with JO - interesting.


    http://chicagosports.chicagotribune....home-headlines


    Post time? Check out these 3
    Garnett, O'Neal and Randolph likely on postseason market
    Sam Smith
    On Pro Basketball

    March 26, 2007

    So who needs a big man, a post player who has averaged at least 20 points and 10 rebounds per game in the NBA and should be available after this season? So how do you feel about Jermaine O'Neal, Zach Randolph and Kevin Garnett?

    Sorry, I just couldn't take it. It's been a month since I've proposed a trade and I'm having withdrawal symptoms. Is there a clinic for this type of thing?

    In any case, there perhaps has never been anything like this, All-Stars such as O'Neal and Garnett and a big-time post producer like Randolph on teams that are either borderline to make the playoffs or already well out of contention.

    Randolph's Trail Blazers have improved, though they played some of their best ball last week with him away from the team on personal leave. Meanwhile, the Pacers and Timberwolves are well below .500?though each has one of the highest paid and most decorated players in the NBA?and getting worse.

    Timberwolves: They moved to nine games below .500 after Garnett's game-winner over the Blazers on Sunday. They had lost 12 of their previous 16?after changing coaches! Never has anything like this happened in the NBA.

    Garnett was the league's MVP in 2003-04. Though he's been injury-free all season, his team appears as if it will miss the playoffs for the third consecutive season. It's unprecedented. And now Garnett can opt out of his contract after next season, or finish it up the season after. Could he really be satisfied to continue to ride a sinking ship?

    Could the Timberwolves be so bereft of ideas and motivation they'd continue the way they are going? Their hand may finally be forced because friends believe Garnett will force his way out after this season. Given his opt-out status, it's too big a risk for almost any team to offer much for Garnett. Except one: The Lakers. Garnett lives in Malibu and is known to be coveted by the Lakers, among others, of course. And Kobe Bryant would be the perfect teammate given he is the finisher Garnett lacks.

    So here's the deal: It's clear Lakers center Andrew Bynum is a few years away, and coach Phil Jackson and Bryant are getting anxious. So package Bynum, Kwame Brown, Mo Evans, Brian Cook and Sasha Vujacic, plus a first-round draft pick for Garnett.

    The Timberwolves now are looking like they'll have their own first-round pick, which was to go to the Clippers if it wasn't in the top 10. Which means it's time to rest Garnett like last season to make sure they get the pick. They get a young starting center who has great promise, some pieces and have two lottery picks in a good draft. It's a start. And with Bryant, Garnett, Lamar Odom and Luke Walton, the Lakers are in championship position.

    Pacers: They fell to seven under .500 at 31-38 after Sunday's loss to the Bulls. It's been a horrific, embarrassing season for a classy franchise with a recent 11-game losing streak and now 14 losses in its last 16 games. It appears coach Rick Carlisle could be out amid a breakdown of the team with arrests and disciplinary action.

    The Pacers did a great job of never bottoming out even as they changed eras with 11 straight playoff appearances. But starting with Ron Artest and the brawl in Detroit, they haven't been able to recover. With veteran executive Donnie Walsh taking a step back and perhaps retiring, it's time for Larry Bird to put his mark on the roster. That likely means trying to get what they can for O'Neal, the proviso being that the trade partner has to take Jamaal Tinsley and his contract through 2010-11. O'Neal had a heck of an audition for the Bulls on Sunday with 39 points, including the team's last 14.

    Knicks boss Isiah Thomas has long coveted O'Neal, who has been remarkably loyal to Thomas to this day as the two remain close friends. The Knicks are sliding and will need a boost?O'Neal prefers to play outside now?to complement Eddy Curry. I may be the only one, but I still think Steve Francis has something. Plus, Francis can opt out after next season anyway if things don't work. To match salaries, I'd take Francis, Channing Frye and Hoosier Jared Jeffries, who hasn't worked out that well in New York, to give the Pacers a core to begin working with. Plus the Knicks' yield their first-round pick they'll get in the exchange with the Bulls. It's a start for the Pacers with the deal they already made for Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy. And O'Neal suggested in January, perhaps it's his time to leave the Pacers.

    Trail Blazers: Zach! That's the tough one. The Portland Tribune reported that Randolph, while away from the team last week on bereavement leave for the death of his girlfriend's cousin (sounds like quite the family man), hit a strip club while he was home in Indiana and left without paying the bill. The Trail Blazers said he just stopped by. Randolph came off the bench in his return Sunday, and though he had 19 points and nine rebounds, the Trail Blazers' three-game winning streak ended. That run had come after six losses in the last seven before Randolph left. Sometimes things don't show up in the box score, like trotting back on defense and stopping the ball with a half-dozen jab steps.

    The Bulls are among several teams that have looked at him. But the bad element that continues to follow him around off the court makes dealing for Randolph an issue for any team. He's likely available the way the Trail Blazers are playing with their three promising rookies, Brandon Roy, Sergio Rodriguez and LaMarcus Aldridge.

    The revelation has been Aldridge, whom the Bulls passed on in the draft. They came close to choosing him but thought Tyrus Thomas would develop further. So Aldridge will be compared with Thomas for many years.

    In the last three games before Sunday, when he had 13 points and six rebounds, Aldridge averaged 21.3 points, nine rebounds and almost three blocks, shooting 25 of 45 and showing a sophisticated offensive game. He's also had a 30-point game this month and one of 24 points and 17 rebounds. Aldridge, noted as a hard worker, is being likened as a player to a cross between Robert Horry and Rasheed Wallace, though without the baggage. Bulls fans can check him out Monday night at the United Center.

    Oh, and there's Pau Gasol, leading the Grizzlies to the worst record in the NBA. Anyone looking for a big man not named Greg Oden, though one who probably won't even carry his team into the playoffs this season?

    Rivers under fire

    Celtics coach Doc Rivers is under siege these days in Boston for sitting his starters in the fourth quarter and losing after leading by 18, bringing accusations they are dumping for lottery position. Rivers vehemently denied it, and that tactic didn't work anyway when they did it in 1997 (the Tim Duncan draft). ? The once slowdown Rockets scored more than 100 in six of seven games after Yao Ming's return, setting up an intriguing first-rounder with the Jazz. ? Jason Richardson is leaving hints that given their infatuation with Monta Ellis Richardson will be the one traded by the Warriors after the season. Richardson is telling friends he's hoping for a trade to the Pistons or Bulls. ? Gasol passed Shareef Abdur-Rahim as the all-time leading Grizzlies scorer. In a combined 15 NBA seasons and more than 1,000 games, the two have combined to be in two winning playoff games, both by Abdur-Rahim.

    Generous Jalen

    The Suns are auditioning their playoff rotation and have given Jalen Rose some minutes. He had 11 points in 13 minutes Thursday. But he's been busy otherwise, recently donating $100,000 to the Biamba Marie Mutombo Hospital and Research Center in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, dedicated by Dikembe Mutombo in memory of his mother. ? With Mike Bibby getting 37 in a win over the Suns on Sunday, Steve Nash could be denied that third straight MVP because the guy they once called "Irk" for no "D" is a better defender. ? Ben Wallace is looking pretty good compared with the Bulls' other two summer free-agent possibilities, who were Nazr Mohammed, out of the rotation in Detroit, and the Blazers' Joel Przybilla, out for the season after still another knee surgery. ? Watch out for the East? The Suns lost to the Pistons, the Mavs lost to the Bucks and the Celtics and the Jazz went 0-4 on an Eastern trip. ? "Li'l Ben Wallace" will be in Chicago on Thursday with the Pistons. Jason Maxiell had career highs of 19 points, 15 rebounds and four blocks Sunday in a rout of the Bucks subbing for suspended Rasheed Wallace (for technical fouls). Maxiell was mentored by Wallace in Detroit last season and was selected by the Pistons in the second round because as an undersized hard-working forward he reminded them of?Wallace.

    Finger-pointer

    Sonics coach Bob Hill continues to throw players under the bus, which would seem to eliminate him from future NBA coaching consideration. In recent losses, he blamed Earl Watson and Chris Wilcox for costing games by blowing plays and said the Sonics should give up if they lose Rashard Lewis in free agency. The word around the NBA is Lenny Wilkens will return to coach in a transition season as the team considers a move next season. ? Jeff Hornacek was brought in from his Phoenix home to work with slumping Andrei Kirilenko. ? The Lakers' Jackson had the officials turn off Memphis' NCAA game last week in the arena as the Lakers beat the Grizzlies with Bryant scoring 60 points. Fans were mostly watching the college game and cheering at awkward times. ? The Toronto Sun chased down former Nets and 76ers center Todd MacCulloch, who says he's a competitive pinball player and ranked 208th in the world. ? LeBron James is 0-9 this season, Elias Sports Bureau researched, on three-pointers at the end of regulation or in overtime that could have tied or won games. ? Jazz coach Jerry Sloan found rarely used Dee Brown for his longest stint in months in a win over Memphis, finally playing alongside Deron Williams, who had his 24th double-double of the season. ? After being blown out by the Clippers last week, the Jazz's players said it was just one of those shooting nights. Pointed out Sloan: "We missed 20 free throws and they weren't guarding those."

    sasmith@tribune.com
    Copyright © 2007, The Chicago Tribune
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

    He's right.

    He is the only one who thinks Steve Francis still has something....

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

      At this point after all I've read from him (especially on Mondays) I have to ask: Why did you even bother to post this garbage? I mean yes it's slightly amusing, but what saddens me is some will seriously consider this.

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

        ha ha ha ha ohh man oh...ha ha hee hee hee ha ha ha seriously stop, my side is killing me


        Good gravy is Smith an idiot. This isn't even a "please can the Bulls get him", but this stuff makes me STRONGLY wonder if he isn't working for the Bulls. Hasn't he always tried to devalue JO?

        JO just nearly won the game for the Pacers down the stretch vs the Bulls, it was a hard-earned 39, and this dork thinks he's worth Steve Francis IF you throw in Tinsley (ie, force someone to take him in his words). Give us all a HUGE break Smith, you are an idiot.

        Sorry your team spent its money on Ben Wallace instead, but you aren't getting JO and Tins for Hinrich and salary filler no matter how much you pretend the Pacers want to be the Magic pre-Howard for some reason.


        Plus I love how JO and KG just walk away from money because they are sick of "losing". It's not like Minny and Indy weren't extremely strong very recently actually. Having the top seed in your conference and getting to the conference finals isn't that long ago.

        The Wolves have Foye, they will likely get a shot at another solid player this year, and while James was a mistake (overvalued) Ricky Davis with his improved attitude has been a solid player for them.

        The Pacers have more problems right now, though they also seem the more likely to win games this season. Regardless they aren't going to build around Dun and Murph no matter what Smith thinks.

        Originally posted by JB's Breakout Year View Post
        He's right.

        He is the only one who thinks Steve Francis still has something....

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

          Originally posted by Mal View Post
          At this point after all I've read from him (especially on Mondays) I have to ask: Why did you even bother to post this garbage? I mean yes it's slightly amusing, but what saddens me is some will seriously consider this.
          I find him amusing.

          Maybe I should have posted Kravitz latest, he actually makes a couple of decent points

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

            The story here is that there is a strong correlation between dominant post-oriented big-men with great stats (20+ pts, 10+ rebs, 2+ blocks) and ... losing teams.

            The only exception is probably Tim Duncan and the Spurs, though Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili can be argued as the more dominant players, especially if you remember the tough series that they actually won.

            It's a guard's league. You still need big men, but for defense and rebounding. Even better if they can make the outside and mid-range shots and open defenses for the guards to penetrate and dish.

            All the teams that play "stuff it in to X and either he goes 1on1 and gets fouled/points or he's doubled and moves the ball to the shooters" are teams that are losing!

            X can be: (East) JO, Howard, Curry, (West) Gasol, Zach, KG, Brand

            That's 7 of the league's 15 worse teams.

            OTOH of the league's best 15 you can put down a "maybe" for:
            (East) Shaq (they don't play that style, and of course ... DWade), Bosh (more of a PnR offense that dumping), (West) Duncan (as mentioned above)

            Trading JO (& Tinsley) for an all-star caliber SG (Ben Gordon?) and change (a pick maybe?) isn't the worst idea in today's NBA.

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

              Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
              The Pacers have more problems right now, though they also seem the more likely to win games this season. Regardless they aren't going to build around Dun and Murph no matter what Smith thinks.


              I don't think they have much of a choice, as it is this team is not going anywhere. I've never sided with the blow it up contingent before, but if Sam's New York deal was offered I think they would jump on it.
              Protect the Promise!!!!

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

                I think Sam Smith should just admit that all his ideas are with the targeted goal of destroying the Pacers. If we had an expiring contract it would be one thing and then that, Frye, Jeffries and a pick might make some sense. But Francis would just be an abysmal contract for a player who can get it done maybe one night out of 3.
                The poster formerly known as Rimfire

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

                  Originally posted by DisplacedKnick View Post
                  I think Sam Smith should just admit that all his ideas are with the targeted goal of destroying the Pacers. If we had an expiring contract it would be one thing and then that, Frye, Jeffries and a pick might make some sense. But Francis would just be an abysmal contract for a player who can get it done maybe one night out of 3.
                  Funny, I've noticed the same thing over the past few years about him. Not sure what his deal is, but he seems to have a lot of opinions on how the Pacers should trade their best player. More than your average writer for another town's paper, anyway.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

                    We all knew that this type of article was inevitable.

                    In the offseason, he will have a field day with JONeal going to Chicago for all the useless players with huge contracts and some 2018 2nd round draft pick.
                    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

                      if pacers do decide to trade j.o., or if j.o. himself forces it by threatening to opt out next season, then the pacers would have to consider the knicks as a trading partner. there are surprisingly few teams which have the large contracts and young players to get a deal done, and the knicks happen to be one of them.

                      case in point - it would be almost impossible for bulls to trade for j.o. without including ben wallace. it would take half their roster just to match salaries.

                      from the knicks, i'd ask for david lee, frye, bulls #1, and francis to make the salaries match. i'd look to dump tinsley's contract in the same deal too, swapping him for one of the knicks' guards. this trade works salarywise - jermaine and jamaal for lee, frye, bulls #1, steve francis, and nate robinson. in terms of value, it's not much different from a boston deal featuring ratliff's contract and several of their young players.

                      remember of course, that any offer from knicks or celtics or anyone else for j.o. would be pennies to the dollar, but that's the price of trading your franchise player.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

                        "o match salaries, I'd take Francis, Channing Frye and Hoosier Jared Jeffries, who hasn't worked out that well in New York, to give the Pacers a core to begin working with. Plus the Knicks' yield their first-round pick they'll get in the exchange with the Bulls."

                        LMAO

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

                          as bad as Kravitz is, and he is surely bad, Sam Smith's writing makes BK look like a savant.
                          The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

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                          • #14
                            Re: Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

                            Steve Francis?

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                            • #15
                              Re: Sam Smith is at it again - wild trade scenerios involving JO

                              case in point - it would be almost impossible for bulls to trade for j.o. without including ben wallace.
                              Which they would do in a heartbeat. There was a reason they tried to post up Ben a few times, they wanted to be able to threaten the Pacers with the post and simply couldn't. TT and Brown were in bad foul trouble. Ben had boards and defended well, but so did JO AND he went for 39 on a great FG%.

                              I'm not saying they'd send Gordan, Deng and Ben, but they would use Ben to make the numbers match. Not sure the Pacers would take that even. I mean ultimately what are you doing trying to rebuild? Get a dominate front court guy, right? Pacers have that, end step one and move to step 2.

                              There is a reason the Bulls spent so much money on Ben even, bigs are tough to find at the AS level. What does everyone think the excitement about this draft is? It's all bigs. If a post guy isn't a big deal then why is everyone excited to get Oden? Come on.

                              KG and JO were on the TWO BEST TEAMS just a few seasons ago. Shaq and Duncan have almost all the recent rings. Sure they had good guards TOO, but all the guards that have won can also be said to have great bigs playing alongside them.

                              Need proof on Wade/Shaq - look at the record since Shaq returned and Wade went out. Now remind me what the record was without Shaq but with Wade? End of discussion. More - what did Wade do without Shaq?

                              Spurs - what did they do without Robinson (which is how they got Duncan)?


                              Nobody would give value for JO? What did the Knicks give the Bulls to get Curry?

                              And I'm pretty sure the West Finals team and the #1 team this year has a pretty freaking talented big on their roster.

                              Houston seems to be doing well with Yao and Alston as a PG. TOR has Bosh. Utah's entire frontline is strong, but especially Boozer and Okur and with them playing the Jazz have become one of the best instantly.

                              You know a PG only, big just rebounds type of team? OKC. How's that working?

                              Even Detroit has Sheed and added Webber (and have been winning with Billups hurt, even without Rip the other day). PHX has Amare and Marion on the frontline.

                              Cleveland has Ilgauskas who is more offensive than rebounding or defense, and as decent as they are they aren't tearing it up or anything, they'd be the 6th seed in the West behind 4 of 5 teams with strong bigs on the team (and that's not counting PHX).


                              Now let's return to the Knicks without Curry as the main guy last year but with plenty of backcourt talent. Let's look at the Magic with Francis but with Howard just in his rookie year and not a focal point yet, is that what the Pacers would rather be? Or maybe the Magic from the year before with TMac but no big at all worth anything, not even a rookie?

                              Magic
                              - Tmac, no Dwight .256
                              - Francis, with rookie Dwight .439
                              - no Francis, Dwight a bigger focus .439
                              - Dwight as a primary guy, .457

                              Howard alone jumped the team way up in wins. Losing Francis had zero impact on the W-L record. Howard alone (with a shell of Grant Hill and Nelson at PG) has kept the team near .500. Like any great player he needs more than just himself, but by himself the job is halfway done.

                              Few PGs on their own can carry a team anywhere. Bigs can't do it alone, but PGs alone are a huge disaster (except maybe Nash, but the dude just won 2 MVPs).

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