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BigDawg44
01-25-2004, 07:57 PM
I have some friends that are EXTREMELY ignorant. They are telling me that Reggie SUCKS! :mad: Plus, they dont think he is "Mr. Clutch". When I say REggie in his hay day was one of the best players in the league, the equivalent of a T-Mac or a Kobe today. And they tell me "No he wasnt". And their reasoning behind this was "Because he was shadowed by MJ". They refuse to believe that he is one of the NBA's all time greatest players! I need a list of his accomplishments throughout his career, is there any site that can give me that?

Cactus Jax
01-25-2004, 08:06 PM
I agree that he was one of the top players of all-time, but he was never a T-Mac, or Kobe even in his prime, in terms of either being one of the best players in the league, or leading a team totally on his own. He was a playoff legend, and never did get the recognition he deserved, but he was never at one point one of the top few players in the game, like Jermaine is now.

ABADays
01-25-2004, 08:43 PM
You must not live in Indiana. His "stature" would already be known.

ROCislandWarrior
01-25-2004, 09:45 PM
Just tell them this..."when it mattered...there was only one man better...and he just happened to be the greatest player of all time."

ABADays
01-25-2004, 10:35 PM
That was a great quote ROC. Very appropriate!

Unclebuck
01-25-2004, 10:44 PM
I would not waste my time with those idiots.

BigMac
01-25-2004, 10:58 PM
....I need a list of his accomplishments throughout his career, is there any site that can give me that?


His career stats are on NBA.com under players. Pacers.com has some videos on his great shots (as well as others the Pacers have had throughout the years).

Check out all-time stats for Free Throw Shooting, Games Played, Seasons Played, Seasons Played With One Team, Three Pointers Attempted, Three Pointers Made, Points scored, Minutes Played.

NBA.com is a good resource for All-Time Stats and milestones. I just looked at it myself, and even though I knew most of his stats I was awed at how great they actually are. The games played and minutes is amazing because of the banging he goes through night in and night out.

BigDawg44
01-25-2004, 11:07 PM
the reason i put he is the equivalent of T-Mac or Kobe is that when the Pacers needed a hig shot or something like that, you could rely on him. plus to me REGGIE IS GOD! :pepper: :angel:

rabid
01-25-2004, 11:20 PM
I would not waste my time with those idiots.

True, true.

In case you were wondering though:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/reggie_miller/bio.html

"1987-88:
(Reggie) broke an eight-year-old mark set by Larry Bird when he hit 61 three-pointers for the season, more than any other rookie in NBA history.


1988-89:
...(established) new Pacers records (which he would later break) with 98 treys in 244 attempts........Led Indiana with 93 steals."

1989-90:
In only his third NBA season, he became the first Pacer to play in the NBA All-Star Game since Don Buse and Billy Knight in 1977.

1990-91:
In 1990-91 he joined the free-throw shooting elite... leading the NBA and setting a new Pacers record with a .918 percentage (551-of-600)....Established a club mark by making 52 consecutive free throws from 3/5 to 3/18....

1991-92:
Became one of only four players in the Pacers' NBA history to score 7,500 career points when he reached the milestone during a game against the Chicago Bulls on 4/11....Unstoppable in the postseason, averaging 27.0 points while shooting .581 from the floor.....

1992-93:...set a new franchise record with 167 three-point field goals, tying Dan Majerle for the most in the NBA.... For the fourth straight season Miller played in all 82 games. He also extended his string of consecutive starts to 339, the longest active streak in the league... (scored) a career-high 57 points in a game against the Charlotte Hornets on 11/28....Tied a playoff record for free-throw accuracy by hitting 17 of 17 attempts in Game 1 , then went on to average 31.5 points for the (first round Knicks/Pacers) series, hitting 10 of 19 three-point attempts.

1993-94:
Miller had been considered one of the NBA's best guards for years, but the events of the 1993-94 season catapulted him to superstardom. After a typically solid regular season Miller carried the Pacers on the longest playoff run in their NBA history....His performance in Game 5 of the Eastern Conference Finals against the New York Knicks may well be remembered as the defining moment of his career....In that game Miller poured in 25 points in the fourth quarter-hitting 5 of 5 from three-point range-to lead Indiana to a 93-86 victory at Madison Square Garden....New York won the next two games to take the series, but Miller's exploits in Game 5 would stand as one of the greatest individual efforts in NBA Playoff history....After the season Miller garnered more attention as one of the top performers on Dream Team II, the squad that represented the United States at the 1994 World Championship of Basketball in Toronto and Hamilton, Ontario, Canada....Averaged 17.1 points for the tournament-hitting 30 of 55 attempts from the international three-point line-helping the U.S. to the gold medal.

1994-95:....Scorched the Atlanta Hawks in the opening round of the playoffs to the tune of 31.7 points per game, hitting for 39 points while draining 7 three-pointers in Game 2....In Game 1 of the conference semifinals against New York he stunned the Knicks with 8 points in the final 16.4 seconds to erase a 6-point Knicks lead and steal a win for the Pacers at Madison Square Garden....The flurry was reminiscent of his 25-point fourth-quarter outburst at New York in the Eastern Conference Finals the previous season....Otherwise, he had a relatively quiet series against New York (22.6 ppg)....In the first six games against Orlando, however, Miller exploded....Scored 17 points in the first period of Game 1 (and 26 for the contest), then collected 37 in Game 2....In Game 6 he scored 28 points in the first half on the way to a 36-point evening....

1995-96:...selected to the Dream Team that would represent the United States at the Olympics in Atlanta....Named to his third All-Star appearance, the only Pacer to be selected more than once...

1996-97:became the first player in Pacers history to reach 15,000 points against Orlando on Feb. 4 and finished the season with a total of 15,824....

1998-99:...Led the NBA in free-throw percentage (.915) and led the Pacers in scoring (18.4 ppg, 19th in the NBA) and three-pointers made (106, 3rd) and attempted (275, 6th)....Closed the season as the NBA's all-time career leader in three-pointers made (1,702) and attempted (4,225)....



2001-02:
...provided two memorable moments in the Pacers' Game Five loss to the New Jersey Nets, 5/2/02, draining a 40-foot 3-pt FGM at the buzzer to send the game into the first overtime and then flew in for an uncontested slam dunk to send the game into the second overtime. He scored a season-high (regular season or playoffs) 31 points and led the Pacers' starters in assists with four in that game against the Nets. He also had 30 points to lead the Pacers in an 85-84 loss in Game Three, 4/26.)...Saw action in six of the team’s nine games in the World Championship and averaged 6.0 ppg on 11-29 FGS (.379), 10-23 3-pt FGS (.435) and 4-4 FTS.

2002-03:He became the 11th player in NBA history to log 43,000 minutes with his 14 minutes vs. Chicago, 3/28. ... He connected on 113 3-pt FGS, the 14th consecutive season he has made at least 100 3-pt FGM.


Oh yeah: He's the NBA all-time leader in 3-point shots made (and attempted).

He's somewhere in the neighborhood of the top 10 scorers in NBA history (give or take one or two spots).

BigMac
01-25-2004, 11:21 PM
the reason i put he is the equivalent of T-Mac or Kobe is that when the Pacers needed a hig shot or something like that, you could rely on him. plus to me REGGIE IS GOD! :pepper: :angel:

I don't think either one of those guys has attained a status even close to Reggie's when thinking of clutch shooting.

Hicks
01-26-2004, 08:18 AM
rabid, the funny thing is there's a little bit off the top of my head you left out.

His all-star appearance in 2000.

He averaged I believe 31ppg in the Philly Series in 2001, including the late game 3 that proved to be the game winner in the first game of the series.

Sollozzo
01-26-2004, 12:40 PM
Rabid also left out Reggie's most important playoff year......2000. In game 5 against Milwaukee, Reggie had 41 points to lead the Pacers. In game 1 against Philly, Reggie and Rose each had 40 points to lead the Pacer to a win. And, in what I think was Reggie's best performance in Madison Square Garden, Reggie scored 34 points in game 6 of the ECF's at NY, 17 of those points coming into the fourth, to lead the Pacers to their first ever finals appearance. Reggie averaged like 23 points in the finals, thats including that awful game 1 performance. Reggie played fantastic basketball against Ray Allen, Allen Iverson, Allen Houston, and Kobe Bryant.

Reggie was never as electrifying as a scorer as Kobe or Tmac. Both of these guys averaged 30 last year. Reggie was never close to that. And Kobe has been clutch, don't forget about game 4 of the 2000 finals against us.

ABADays
01-26-2004, 12:47 PM
He has too many HUGE 3's in the playoffs to remember - but I will never forget his 8 points in what semed like 0 seconds and his 25 point 4th quarter - both against the Knicks.

rabid
01-26-2004, 12:50 PM
Yeah, I was taking quotes from the NBA.com site, and I was in a hurry, and for some reason they didn't have much listed about the late '90's playoff series...

I also left out the game-winning 1998 ECF shot where he pushed off Jordan for the game-winning 3... probably my all-time favorite shot of his.

DisplacedKnick
01-26-2004, 12:57 PM
the reason i put he is the equivalent of T-Mac or Kobe is that when the Pacers needed a hig shot or something like that, you could rely on him. plus to me REGGIE IS GOD! :pepper: :angel:

I don't think either one of those guys has attained a status even close to Reggie's when thinking of clutch shooting.

Kobe has. When the Lakers won their titles he was THE guy who took just about every big shot when they needed it.

Ragnar
01-26-2004, 12:58 PM
I have to say as much as I love the Pacers now I would probably never have become a Pacer fan had it not been for Reggie. being from Fort Wayne we simply do not get a lot of Pacer news and the games are not on TV (unless you have a dish and get league pass).

The first time I ever saw a Pacer game I wan in Indianapolis for work and got to see a game in a bar. Needless to say I was hooked but it was Reggie's performance that hooked me. I have to say that had he been with any other team I would be a fan of that team today.

Thats not to say that now I will stop being a Pacer fan once he is retired. Not at all I am now too interested in the other players and the franchise in general but it was Reggie that got me to watch them in the first place.

But only to say that I am not a Pacer fan just because they are the home team because to me they are not the home team. Here there were more Pistons fans than Pacer fans.

Bball
01-26-2004, 01:53 PM
.02. IMHO, flamesuit on.....

The reason this question is ever in debate (Is Reggie a top 50 all time NBA player.. Is Reggie a HoF lock?...etc) is because Reggie has had a knack for disappearing in some big games too. Particularly during the regular season altho he's done it in the playoffs. Other players who seem to not raise so much of a question about where they belong in the pecking order probably do so because in their 'off' games they were able to do something else. Reggie's game has mostly been about scoring 3's.

If 'Superstar Player X's' shot isn't falling in a big game (or any game for that matter) then maybe he sucks it up on defense and gets the big steal(s) or doesn't allow an opposing player to get his shot off.... or he blocks out and wills himself to get the big rebound or game saving block... or he drives to the hoop and earns his points from the FT line.

That is where the difference lies and that is why Reggie's status is up for debate among NBA fans. I just don't think Reggie brought his 'A' game to as many games over the course of his career as some other players. Part of that is that his 'A' game mainly involved his shooting 3's and when you rely on offense it many times fails you for a multitude of reasons.

That said, Reggie has certainly had his share of primetime moments in the playoffs on the Natl stage. As a matter of fact, he has arguably surpassed some other NBA 'stars' in what he has been able to do in games where he was 'on'. IOW, there have been times where his game was somewhere in the stratosphere. Conversely, there have been some games where he has probably hurt more than he helped tho.

An NBA championship would certainly help his career and how it is viewed. Even another Finals appearance and some Reggie Magic on that stage would go a long way. But I think his career stats will ultimately speak for themselves when HoF time and career accolade time approaches. OTOH, I do see why there is some debate or question.

-Bball

Arcadian
01-26-2004, 02:08 PM
Bball if you are saying that Reggie doesn't dominate a game from start to finish I'd agree.

However, I'd never catagorize reggie as a player who was iffy on showing up (not to say he never had a bad game but he didn't disappear) or that all he did was shoot 3 pointers. There have been few in the history of the game to move without the ball as Reggie or had the knack for drawing fouls as a player who was know for being a 3 point shooter.

When talking about Reggie be carefull or you'll end up on a list.

ROCislandWarrior
01-26-2004, 02:51 PM
I also left out the game-winning 1998 ECF shot where he pushed off Jordan for the game-winning 3... probably my all-time favorite shot of his.


"Harpers on Miller...Mckey gets it into Miller for the Win...YESSSS!!! FOUR TENTHS OF A SECOND (and then IT is in the background going )Oh baby...oh baby)"

I will have that play by play stuck in my head until the day I die

Suaveness
01-26-2004, 02:53 PM
Reggie always showed up in the playoffs, every game (other than last year). There has not been one pacer game in the playoffs where he hasn't showed up. The man is fantastic. He can flat out hit those big shots, and he pushes his level up 3 or 4 notches in the playoffs. Regular season doesnt really matter all that much, though then he did that too.

Hicks
01-26-2004, 03:58 PM
I agree that Reggie's always shown up in the playoffs. It was simply a matter of was he injured or not or were his shots falling or not.

Like that first Finals game. Reggie shot something like 1of16, which is awful, but at least he put up 16 shots, which the leading scorer of the team is supposed to do.

I would say he didn't show up if he only put up half that many shots or less.

Sollozzo
01-26-2004, 03:58 PM
Now Suaveness, Reggie hasn't shown up in every playoff game he has played in. There have been some huge games where Reggie hasn't done much, and those games ended up being the last games of the season. Game 7 of the ECF's at Orlando in 1995, Reggie just had 12 points, Magic did a great job defending him. That ended up being the last game of the season. And game 6 at New York in 1999 ECF's, Reggie had a total of 8 lousy points, that ended up being the seasons last game(though of course Reggie redeemed himself in game 6 at New York in 2000 with 34 points, 17 in the fourth). Reggie has had more great playoff games than bad, but it is a false statement to say he has shown up in every playoff game he has ever played, and I'm not even talking about last year.

Hicks
01-26-2004, 04:01 PM
I don't consider a bad shooting night not showing up. Not even trying to shoot is not showing up.

Sollozzo
01-26-2004, 04:16 PM
Well in game 7 of the 1995 ECF's, Reggie just took 13 shots. That game was the season right there, and Reggie didn't really show up.

ABADays
01-26-2004, 04:29 PM
I've gone to a few sites to try and find NBA Playoff career leaders. Not having much luck. Does anyone have a link?

Suaveness
01-26-2004, 05:16 PM
go to NBA.com, then the history section