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View Full Version : Hawks are giving the Pistons some trouble.



Unclebuck
01-25-2004, 07:23 PM
Hawks lead by 5 at halftime. Pistons were able to cut what was a 10-12 deficit to 5 just before halftime.

Pacers aren't the only team, to struggle with the Hawks.

Prince and Okur are both having bad games, if not for Corless, it might be 15 point deficit.

Kstat
01-25-2004, 07:37 PM
My only beef with Larry Brown is that he does not force the ball inside to Okur enough. Plain and simple, he is a VERY skilled offensive center, and when we struggle to score, the common trend is that Okur is not touching the ball.

If we actually made him a legit option on offense, he'd be a 17/9 guy.

Hicks
01-25-2004, 08:06 PM
What's the score?

Cactus Jax
01-25-2004, 08:07 PM
What's the score?

79-69 Hawks with about 7 minutes left. :dance:

Cactus Jax
01-25-2004, 08:10 PM
Stephen Jackson's having a good game for my fantasy team. :dance: Without Williamson, Detroit would be screwed in this game.

82-71 Hawks, with Big Ben going to the line for 2.

Cactus Jax
01-25-2004, 08:15 PM
Pistons are trying to come back but can't get ANYTHING going.

86-73 Hawks, with 4:07 left, and this game is in Detroit. :o

Kstat
01-25-2004, 08:21 PM
I give up. This team NEEDS Rasheed Wallace. I'm SO sick and tired of guys moving the ball around and passing up open shot after open shot. We need someone with some freaking GUTS that will take shots. Ben Wallace is the most offensively aggressive player on the team.

We're a joke. A bunch of passers, nobody with the balls to actually take a shot.

Hicks
01-25-2004, 08:22 PM
Score/Time?

zxc
01-25-2004, 08:23 PM
Hawks up 13 with 2 minutes left. All but over now.

Makes that loss last night for us feel a little better. Well, not really.

Kstat
01-25-2004, 08:23 PM
Score/Time?

HAwks win


what a gutless performance.

Hicks
01-25-2004, 08:25 PM
Suddenly last night doesn't sting so bad. :laugh:

Sorry, Kstat.

Cactus Jax
01-25-2004, 08:25 PM
I give up. This team NEEDS Rasheed Wallace. I'm SO sick and tired of guys moving the ball around and passing up open shot after open shot. We need someone with some freaking GUTS that will take shots. Ben Wallace is the most offensively aggressive player on the team.

We're a joke.

Hey the Pacers laid an egg yesterday, it happens in the league. The Hawks had a smart game plan letting Wallace do whatever he wants offensively and containing everybody else.

Also how are you guys getting Sheed without giving up any of your core players; Ben, Billups, Hamilton, Okur, or Darko? I think that's impossible.

Kstat
01-25-2004, 08:26 PM
I give up. This team NEEDS Rasheed Wallace. I'm SO sick and tired of guys moving the ball around and passing up open shot after open shot. We need someone with some freaking GUTS that will take shots. Ben Wallace is the most offensively aggressive player on the team.

We're a joke.

Hey the Pacers laid an egg yesterday, it happens in the league. The Hawks had a smart game plan letting Wallace do whatever he wants offensively and containing everybody else.

Also how are you guys getting Sheed without giving up any of your core players; Ben, Billups, Hamilton, Okur, or Darko? I think that's impossible.


Honestly, I dont care. Trade anyone not named Darko or Ben Wallace. I'm sick of all the nice guys that refuse to carry any weight.

I'd take the Hawks roster over ours in a hearbeat, minus Ben.

Cactus Jax
01-25-2004, 08:27 PM
Also I'm SO glad the Pacers are done with the Hawks.

Suaveness
01-25-2004, 08:29 PM
Don't worry about it. Teams go through this crap. We lost to washington....i think that qualifies as worse

Kstat
01-25-2004, 08:37 PM
Hey, I'm willing to lose 13 in a row, if it means the piston pull a trade for a guy with scoring ability that ACTUALLY USES IT.


:hawks: >>>>>>>>>> :pistons:

Shade
01-25-2004, 08:46 PM
It's amazing. As hot as the Pacers, Pistons, and Kings have been, they have all combined to lose 7 straight games in the last few days. :confused:

Shade
01-25-2004, 08:47 PM
BRING IN DARKO!!!!! :devil:










Seriously, it's time to give the big man more PT. He's never going to develop if they don't play him.

Kstat
01-25-2004, 08:49 PM
BRING IN DARKO!!!!! :devil:










Seriously, it's time to give the big man more PT. He's never going to develop if they don't play him.

Explain that to JO.

Hicks
01-25-2004, 08:51 PM
BRING IN DARKO!!!!! :devil:










Seriously, it's time to give the big man more PT. He's never going to develop if they don't play him.

Explain that to JO.

What? JO DIDN'T develop until he came here. At least not noticably. Or are you referring to his claim that he was always this good, which is absurd to me.

DisplacedKnick
01-25-2004, 08:51 PM
Hey, I'm willing to lose 13 in a row, if it means the piston pull a trade for a guy with scoring ability that ACTUALLY USES IT.


:hawks: >>>>>>>>>> :pistons:

<cough> Carmelo<hack>Anthony<cough>

Natston
01-25-2004, 08:52 PM
Will Detroit go with a five year plan in regards to Darko? :o :confused:

Natston
01-25-2004, 08:52 PM
Hey, I'm willing to lose 13 in a row, if it means the piston pull a trade for a guy with scoring ability that ACTUALLY USES IT.


:hawks: >>>>>>>>>> :pistons:

<cough> Carmelo<hack>Anthony<cough> :laugh:

DisplacedKnick
01-25-2004, 08:53 PM
BRING IN DARKO!!!!! :devil:










Seriously, it's time to give the big man more PT. He's never going to develop if they don't play him.

That's next year. This year is garbage time only. 18-year-old big men just can't compete with NBA post players.

Kstat
01-25-2004, 08:56 PM
Hey, I'm willing to lose 13 in a row, if it means the piston pull a trade for a guy with scoring ability that ACTUALLY USES IT.


:hawks: >>>>>>>>>> :pistons:

<cough> Carmelo<hack>Anthony<cough>

Eh, Darko has an ego that FAR surpasses Anthony's. Once Darko starts getting serious PT next season, that won't be an issue.

I just wish I could give some of that ego to Tayshaun Prince, whohas all the freaking ability in the world but chooses never to use it.

DisplacedKnick
01-25-2004, 09:01 PM
I'll just remind you of my two main "Carmelo points" from last summer:

1 - With a reliable third scorer the Pistons don't just challenge for the EC but for the NBA title THIS YEAR.

2 - In five years Carmelo will be more above Prince than Milicic will be above Okur.

Of course it'll be a while before that all comes out in the wash but I've been here for five years (even though "here" has moved!) I figure I'll be around another five.

Hicks
01-25-2004, 09:02 PM
I just wish I could give some of that ego to Tayshaun Prince, whohas all the freaking ability in the world but chooses never to use it.

Derrick McKey Jr.

Kstat
01-25-2004, 09:06 PM
I'll just remind you of my two main "Carmelo points" from last summer:

1 - With a reliable third scorer the Pistons don't just challenge for the EC but for the NBA title THIS YEAR.

2 - In five years Carmelo will be more above Prince than Milicic will be above Okur.

Of course it'll be a while before that all comes out in the wash but I've been here for five years (even though "here" has moved!) I figure I'll be around another five.

In 5 years Darko will be a top-10 NBA player and rising, while Carmello will be stuck in the 11-20 range for his career. NBA SFs that cant do a thing on defense dont get a whole lot better.

Kstat
01-25-2004, 09:10 PM
I'll just remind you of my two main "Carmelo points" from last summer:

1 - With a reliable third scorer the Pistons don't just challenge for the EC but for the NBA title THIS YEAR.

2 - In five years Carmelo will be more above Prince than Milicic will be above Okur.

Of course it'll be a while before that all comes out in the wash but I've been here for five years (even though "here" has moved!) I figure I'll be around another five.

In 5 years Darko will be a top-10 NBA player and rising, while Carmello will be stuck in the 11-20 range for his career. NBA SFs that cant do a thing on defense dont get a whole lot better.

DARKO WILL REVOLUTIONIZE THE 12TH MAN POSITION!!!

:laugh: Now Now, when he's in his 5th year and doing nothing, you can start pointing fingers.....

Hicks
01-25-2004, 09:16 PM
I'll just remind you of my two main "Carmelo points" from last summer:

1 - With a reliable third scorer the Pistons don't just challenge for the EC but for the NBA title THIS YEAR.

2 - In five years Carmelo will be more above Prince than Milicic will be above Okur.

Of course it'll be a while before that all comes out in the wash but I've been here for five years (even though "here" has moved!) I figure I'll be around another five.

In 5 years Darko will be a top-10 NBA player and rising, while Carmello will be stuck in the 11-20 range for his career. NBA SFs that cant do a thing on defense dont get a whole lot better.

DARKO WILL REVOLUTIONIZE THE 12TH MAN POSITION!!!

:laugh: Now Now, when he's in his 5th year and doing nothing, you can start pointing fingers.....

Even if Darko does become starter quality, who do you dump? Wallace or Okur?

Kstat
01-25-2004, 09:18 PM
I really don't think we'll need to "dump" anybody. Either Okur can come off the bench until Ben starts declining, or we try Okur AND Darko, and Bring Ben in as a 6th man. You act liek there's something wrong with having 3 good big men.

Kstat
01-25-2004, 09:20 PM
I'll just remind you of my two main "Carmelo points" from last summer:

1 - With a reliable third scorer the Pistons don't just challenge for the EC but for the NBA title THIS YEAR.

2 - In five years Carmelo will be more above Prince than Milicic will be above Okur.

Of course it'll be a while before that all comes out in the wash but I've been here for five years (even though "here" has moved!) I figure I'll be around another five.

In 5 years Darko will be a top-10 NBA player and rising, while Carmello will be stuck in the 11-20 range for his career. NBA SFs that cant do a thing on defense dont get a whole lot better.

DARKO WILL REVOLUTIONIZE THE 12TH MAN POSITION!!!

:laugh: Now Now, when he's in his 5th year and doing nothing, you can start pointing fingers.....

Even if Darko does become starter quality, who do you dump? Wallace or Okur?

Most likely, those three will never play together when they're ALL good players. Even with the Pistons dumping salary this summer, they're ina tough situation to re-sign Okur if he blows up and Charlolette or Utah decides they want him.

Hardly. We're not in GOlden State's position of last summer with Arenas. We can actually MATCH any offers for Okur, since we are well under the salary cap. He's still a restricted free agent.

Natston
01-25-2004, 09:22 PM
I really don't think we'll need to "dump" anybody. Either Okur can come off the bench until Ben starts declining, or we try Okur AND Darko, and Bring Ben in as a 6th man. You act liek there's something wrong with having 3 good big men.

There's nothing wrong with it, but it gets very expensive... see:Brad Miller

Kstat
01-25-2004, 09:28 PM
I'll just remind you of my two main "Carmelo points" from last summer:

1 - With a reliable third scorer the Pistons don't just challenge for the EC but for the NBA title THIS YEAR.

2 - In five years Carmelo will be more above Prince than Milicic will be above Okur.

Of course it'll be a while before that all comes out in the wash but I've been here for five years (even though "here" has moved!) I figure I'll be around another five.

In 5 years Darko will be a top-10 NBA player and rising, while Carmello will be stuck in the 11-20 range for his career. NBA SFs that cant do a thing on defense dont get a whole lot better.

DARKO WILL REVOLUTIONIZE THE 12TH MAN POSITION!!!

:laugh: Now Now, when he's in his 5th year and doing nothing, you can start pointing fingers.....

Even if Darko does become starter quality, who do you dump? Wallace or Okur?

Most likely, those three will never play together when they're ALL good players. Even with the Pistons dumping salary this summer, they're ina tough situation to re-sign Okur if he blows up and Charlolette or Utah decides they want him.

Hardly. We're not in GOlden State's position of last summer with Arenas. We can actually MATCH any offers for Okur, since we are well under the salary cap. He's still a restricted free agent.

Actually, you're not well enough under the cap. I don't want to go find the numbers, but the worst thing (and the best thing) that could happen to the Pistons is that he blows up. You can only match up to the cap, and you're not in good enough shape if someone comes up with a 7 million a year offer. But if you can find a way to clear off Corliss Williamson or someone else, you might be okay.

:rolleyes: Btowncolt, we can MATCH any offer. I repeat: we can MATCH any offer. We can go over the cap to sign him, so long as we start out UNDER the cap. Otherwise, all we can offer is the MLE. We dont have his FULL Bird rights, but we DO have certain rights to him.

Hicks
01-25-2004, 09:44 PM
:rolleyes: Btowncolt, we can MATCH any offer. I repeat: we can MATCH any offer. We can go over the cap to sign him, so long as we start out UNDER the cap. Otherwise, all we can offer is the MLE.

Thanks for the :rolleyes: , I'm sure it was COMPLETELY necessary. Here's the thing. You CAN'T offer him anything you want. The Larry Bird rules don't apply since he hasn't been under contract for 3 years. You can ONLY go up to the hard cap. So in order to do that, you have to clear salary. But that only applies if someone comes out of the woodwork and offers him a big salary, and that doesn't look very likely.

Sidenote: I hate how this quotes EVERYTHING.

You can delete as much as you want as your post your response.

DisplacedKnick
01-25-2004, 09:45 PM
In 5 years Darko will be a top-10 NBA player and rising, while Carmello will be stuck in the 11-20 range for his career. NBA SFs that cant do a thing on defense dont get a whole lot better.

And what will Okur be? IMO he's a 20-10 shotblocker down the road.

Carmelo will be a 25-7-4 guy and I'm not convinced - yet - that he won't become a pretty fair defender.

There will be considerably more distance between Prince and Anthony than there will be between Milicic and Okur - particularly since I'm not 100% convinced that Milicic will be playing in the all-star game 5 years from now.

And you may think that five years from now you can keep all of them under contract but if you do, Detroit's willing to go WAY over the luxury tax (of course the next CBA may change everything there).

Kstat
01-25-2004, 09:56 PM
In 5 years Darko will be a top-10 NBA player and rising, while Carmello will be stuck in the 11-20 range for his career. NBA SFs that cant do a thing on defense dont get a whole lot better.

And what will Okur be? IMO he's a 20-10 shotblocker down the road.

Carmelo will be a 25-7-4 guy and I'm not convinced - yet - that he won't become a pretty fair defender.

There will be considerably more distance between Prince and Anthony than there will be between Milicic and Okur - particularly since I'm not 100% convinced that Milicic will be playing in the all-star game 5 years from now.

And you may think that five years from now you can keep all of them under contract but if you do, Detroit's willing to go WAY over the luxury tax (of course the next CBA may change everything there).


What you are missing out on is the fact I envision Darko and Memo playing TOGETHER. I dont consider it choosing Darko over Memo.

BTW, Tay is more talented than Carmello in every area except scoring. In an offense revolving around 2 big guys that can score, Tay will fit in much better. The thing is, The pick is going to make us look REALLY bad right now, because we dont have a consistent #1 guy.

dipperdunk
01-25-2004, 10:18 PM
I mentioned this as a Pistons weakness after their recent loss against the Pacers but its tough to put two 1st year starters into your lineup in Prince and Okur and expect them to be key ingredients for a top team in the league.

The problem with young players is that they are inconsistent you'll see one game when Okur gets 20 and 15 then the next game he shoots 1-10 and scores 4 pts. same thing with Prince. Thats just the way young players perform; the 76ers are facing the same thing with Dalembert one game he looks legit and gets 24 and 16 then the next game he scores 2 pts. and looks like he shouldn't be in the NBA. Even Popovich recently moved Ginobili back to the bench for this very reason. I'm sure if you asked Larry Brown he would want both of those players still coming off the bench, thats why he tried to start Elden Campbell but the Pistons roster isn't deep enough to have Prince and Okur coming off the bench. They are going to struggle to score consistently when they go against good front court players; I'm sure Theo Ratliff had something to do with Brown not pounding it inside to Okur he knows what kind of defensive presence Theo is in the paint and probably saw it as a matchup problem. Sure Prince and Okur are going to have good games but they won't do it consistently every night.

The Pistons aren't alone; its a league wide problem because of either injuries or a lack of depth on rosters because of expansion so coaches are forced to play young inexperienced players in key roles and they will struggle in those roles. Its one of the reasons the Pacers are so good this season they have veteran starters; yes they are young but they are considered veterans at this point of their careers and they also have depth but more importantly the Pacers depth is mostly veteran players with playoff experience like Croshere, Pollard, AJ, Anderson, etc.,, all guys with big time playoff experience coming off the bench not young kids like alot of teams have on their roster.