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MSA2CF
05-15-2004, 11:46 AM
They both will be in action today and both are in Indianapolis.
:o

As ya'll should know it's:

Pole Day @ IMS
Pacers/Heat play @ 7:00
Lakers/Spurs play @ 9:30
Flyers/Lightning play @ 2:00
Tampa Bay at Cleveland @ 12:05
Texas at Detroit @ 12:05
Seattle at NY Yankees @ 12:05
Boston at Toronto @ 12:05
Florida at St. Louis @ 1:15
Philadelphia at Colorado @ 2:05
Pittsburgh at San Francisco @ 3:05
Anaheim at Baltimore @ 6:05
Minnesota at Chicago Sox @ 6:05
Atlanta at Milwaukee @ 6:05
NY Mets at Houston @ 6:05
Oakland at Kansas City @ 6:10
Chicago Cubs at San Diego @ 9:05
Montreal at Arizona @ 9:05
Cincinnati at Los Angeles @ 9:10

And I bet there are a few other sporting events, but they ain't so important... :devil:

ROCislandWarrior
05-15-2004, 12:47 PM
Atlanta at Milwaukee @ 6:05

Anyone see the Milwaukee-Atlanta game yesterday?

It was really strange since it was retro night for the brew crew so both teams were wearing braves uniforms.

Ragnar
05-15-2004, 12:51 PM
And I bet there are a few other sporting events, but they ain't so important... :devil:

The question is what makes you think pole day at Indy matters anymore? I guess it is not as irrelevent as bump day but still it is the pole position for the junior leagues.

ABADays
05-15-2004, 05:11 PM
And I bet there are a few other sporting events, but they ain't so important... :devil:

The question is what makes you think pole day at Indy matters anymore? I guess it is not as irrelevent as bump day but still it is the pole position for the junior leagues.

Mm hm :rolleyes: There isn't a racing team anywhere in the world that wouldn't want Sam Hornish in its stable.

MSA2CF
05-15-2004, 07:26 PM
The question is what makes you think pole day at Indy matters anymore? I guess it is not as irrelevent as bump day but still it is the pole position for the junior leagues.

Junior leagues? Could you explain what you mean by that?

Sounds like you're not a racefan so I won't go ahead and explain Pole Day to you.

[hr]

Oh yeah...I forgot the NASCAR Richmond race today. :blush:

Ragnar
05-15-2004, 11:00 PM
The question is what makes you think pole day at Indy matters anymore? I guess it is not as irrelevent as bump day but still it is the pole position for the junior leagues.

Junior leagues? Could you explain what you mean by that?

Sounds like you're not a racefan so I won't go ahead and explain Pole Day to you.

[hr]

Oh yeah...I forgot the NASCAR Richmond race today. :blush:

Oh I am a race fan thats why I am disgusted by what has happened to Indy. I certainly understand the importance of qualifying. However on an oval pole does not mean as much as a road course. If this were CART or F1 I would understand but this is the IRL.

The IRL is everything that is wrong with auto racing. Artificialy close races, lowering the bar rather than raising the bar. I hate the IRL and Tony George for creating it. I want high tech not low tech I want the cars to be the best and the fastest not just the few who show up. I dont care if the teams spend 100 million a year to compete. I dont see that as something that hurts the sport. To me these cheapy little teams that the IRL was created for is what hurts the sport.

Now I am not from Indianapolis so to me the Indy 500 is not just about Indy. To me it is about the best cars and the best drivers. If you think it is still the top tech and the best drivers then you are sadly mistaken. Indy cars used to be faster than F1 cars. Now that Tony has ruined the sport they would never compete.

ABADays
05-15-2004, 11:31 PM
And there are what - about 12 F1 drivers? And why - because the finances are out of sight. If you haven't heard - F1 is having some problems.

Ragnar
05-16-2004, 12:55 AM
And there are what - about 12 F1 drivers? And why - because the finances are out of sight. If you haven't heard - F1 is having some problems.

Lets see there are 20 regular F1 drivers. There are about 21 in the IRL :unimpressed:

Sure F1 has some wrinkles but so does NASCAR. Does that mean NASCAR is in trouble? No of course not. F1 has huge ratings world wide and they have a lot of people attending all of their races. The problems they are having pale in compairison to what George has done to the 500.

How many manufacturers are in the IRL? 3 wow it sure is a good thing it is cheap. Hey how is Olds doing since they were the first sponsor of the IRL?

There are 9 different engine manufacturers in F1. Each team builds its own chasis (although that may change) and yes the costs are outrageous but it is the top of the pile. There are independent teams in F1 and they are having a hard time but that is to be expected but F1 brings in more dollars in a year than the IRL will in its life (I expect the IRL to die when the TV deal expires ABC will drop it like a hot potato) The reason that F1 brings in the bucks is because it is the inovative series. They are not lowering the bar it is always getting higher.

ABADays
05-16-2004, 08:32 AM
As are the costs to run it.

MSA2CF
05-16-2004, 11:21 AM
I think there is more parity in the IRL than in F1...It seems to me like Michael Schumacher (spelling?) wins almost every race.

Roaming Gnome
05-16-2004, 11:22 AM
Don't worry, the only thing that kept the series seperated was a bancruptcy judge a couple months ago. The tape and bubble gum holding CART/OWRS is soon going to wear off and that series will soon fade into obscurity. Anyway, looks like the IRL will be adding road courses next season...another nail in the CART/OWRS coffin.

Ragnar
05-16-2004, 12:46 PM
I think there is more parity in the IRL than in F1...It seems to me like Michael Schumacher (spelling?) wins almost every race.

The problem is it is artificial parity. The cars are designed to give a random result. I cant stand that if you want to beat the best become the best. Earn it or dont win. I hate any series which lowers the bar just so that losers can occasionaly win. Shumi has won every race this year but the other teams are catching up. This year the traditional powerhouses are not there but some of the lower teams are getting podium finishes, and you know what it is better because they earned it rather than have the bar lowered.

ABADays
05-16-2004, 02:02 PM
I'm sorry Ragnar, but to me, F1 racing is about as exciting as watching a soccer match. I realize the technology is from another planet but I feel like it's nearly negated simply by racing on road courses.

Ragnar
05-16-2004, 02:20 PM
I'm sorry Ragnar, but to me, F1 racing is about as exciting as watching a soccer match. I realize the technology is from another planet but I feel like it's nearly negated simply by racing on road courses.

The funny thing is I think the road races are where the action is. To me an oval has all the excitement of watching turtles race. It seems like sheer randome chance as to who will win. Its simply the guy who is randomly at the front when the race happens to end.

In a road race you must earn it. Passing is hard there are lots of elevations and different trypes of turns. On an oval its just boring. I watch qualifying with as much enjoyement as I do the race becuase I know it is a big part of the race.

I have never really enjoyed the Indy even when the real cars were there. It was always the most boring race of the year for me. The thing that kept my intrest was not the race but the inovation. George killed that part of the race and to me there is nothing left. It is not the top drivers anymore they are in NASCAR and F1 and some are still in CART but not the IRL. It is by no means the top cars. The IRL cars might be able to beat a NASCAR car arround the track but lets face it they are by no means the fastest cars either. I am not a NASCAR fan for many of the same reasons I am not a fan of the IRL.

Ovals are boring and artificial competition is cheap. I want to see the very best battle each other for the win, that does not happen at Indy any more. I certainly understand that NASCAR has a lot of fans and IRL has some also to each his own. Its just that to me what George did was take the Bush cars and drivers and call the race the Daytona 500. If NASCAR did that people would riot and they would say hey thats not the Daytona 500. Just because you call it that does not make it so.

No matter how much of a fan of the IRL you may be you must admit that it is not as good as it was. No Formula One champ is ever going to come to Indy to prove he is the best ever again and that is sad.

MSA2CF
05-17-2004, 05:51 PM
No Formula One champ is ever going to come to Indy to prove he is the best ever again and that is sad.

Not even for the U.S. Grand Prix?

waxman
05-17-2004, 07:06 PM
Pre split there wasn't much wrong with CART,,,, from a fan standpoint,.. and the Indy 500 was in a Golden Age....it was as popular if not moreso than NASCAR... There was alot of technology being pushed and there was plenty of support from manufacturers and suppliers to finance the escalating costs.... at least Bump Day actually meant something back then. It was reaching such prestigious levels that newly crowned F1 champ Nigel Mansell came over looking for a new challenge... even Senna did some sniffing around...privately testing for Penske...at secluded Firebird Raceway in Arizona in the early ninties.

Tony George sensed that he was losing some influence amongst team owners and manufacturers because CART was becoming more than just Indy... it was a 1st class World Series.

Tony did two stupid things..... invited NASCAR to Indy in 94',... to race at the open wheel "Mecca"....blasphemous.... And followed that brilliant idea up with creating the IRL a year or so later....And has been at mercy of the France/NASCAR/ISC family....ever since he created the IRL....which races almost exclusively on ISC owned tracks.

He created the IRL on the premise that the little guy didn't have a chance anymore, the guys that drove sprint cars on little dirt ovals on saturday nights like donnie Beechler, jj Yeley, billy boat....were being overlooked for international road racers.... and that engine manufacturers had too much control in CART.

Well well look at the IRL now....you have CARTS old manufacturers Toyota, Honda.... and teams Penske, Ganassi, Rahole, Andretti-Green. Fernandez...etc....,,,,, most of CARTS foreign road racers Kanaan, Castroneves, Franchitti, Fernandez, etc.... and the guys that didn't come directly from CART came from CARTs road racing feeder series Toyota Atlantic....Hornish was a mid packer at best in TA.... Buddy Rice was front runner in TA as was Barron....... yup and there is no sign of those little american dirt trackers like Boat, Beechler, Yeley.

Oh yeah.... Indy also used to get double digit nielson ratings, now there lucky to get in the 4s....George tried to fix what wasn't broken...and thusly destroyed american open wheel racing and Indy.

We should all give him thanx :unimpressed: