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ROCislandWarrior
05-14-2004, 11:56 AM
This was posted over at the realgm forum.

we had five guys play a total of 104 minutes and produce only 9 points. That's basically half the available playing time. Pathetic......

:o :o :o :o :o

if this is true, we will never win another playoff game if this happens more often. (Yes, I am being pessimistic :devil: )

ChicagoJ
05-14-2004, 12:08 PM
PLAYER POS MIN FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS
REGGIE MILLER G 37 0-5 0-4 3-4 0 1 1 3 2 0 1 0 3
JAMAAL TINSLEY G 32 1-5 0-3 2-2 0 8 8 5 4 3 1 0 4
RON ARTEST F 44 12-22 2-2 2-2 6 2 8 1 4 2 3 2 28
JERMAINE O'NEAL F 39 14-24 0-0 9-12 2 4 6 0 5 1 2 1 37
JEFF FOSTER C 16 0-2 0-1 1-2 2 2 4 2 4 0 2 0 1
Al Harrington 21 2-5 0-1 0-2 1 1 2 2 3 1 0 0 4
Austin Croshere 19 2-5 1-3 2-2 1 2 3 2 2 0 0 0 7
Anthony Johnson 16 2-4 0-1 0-0 0 2 2 0 3 0 1 0 4
Fred Jones 13 0-1 0-1 0-0 0 3 3 0 1 0 0 0 0
Jonathan Bender 2 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Scot Pollard DNP
Kenny Anderson DNP
TOTAL 240 33-73 3-16 19-26 12 25 37 15 28 7 10 3 88
45.2% 18.8% 73.1% Team Rebs: 8 Total TO: 11

Since you can make stats do anything you want them to do ...

If you add up Uncle, Tinsley, Foster, Harrington and Jones you get 119 minutes and 12 points. I'm not sure which combo they used but it shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

Also, two players accounted for 83 minutes and 65 points. Sounds like the old 80/20 rule was in effect. (20% of your customers account for 80% of your revenues or many other useful applications.)

Unclebuck
05-14-2004, 12:58 PM
it is a fact that the bench players always play much better at home. Even the 4th and 5th starters play much better at home. On the road the stars have to lead you.

Saturday night will be a completely different story, Reggie will be better as will the bench.

All this talk about offense is nice but the offense was fine in game #4. Pacers could not stop the Heat, that is why they lost

AcneBrain
05-14-2004, 01:57 PM
So, we have arguably the best bench in the leage, but on the road they become shallow. :(

BillS
05-14-2004, 02:26 PM
Way down deep, they're shallow ... ("Shallow" by John Forster)

ChicagoJ
05-14-2004, 02:50 PM
So, we have arguably the best bench in the leage, but on the road they become shallow. :(

Our bench doesn't play in a vacuum.

Miami's third, fourth and fifth starters, plus the bench guys they use perform better at home, at the same time that our fourth and fifth starters and the numerous bench guys we use perform worse on the road.

These variables have a multiplying effect (Miami's starters, at home, against our bench (on the road.))

I know a lot of you are tired of hearing me say it, but its true:

If you think you're going to win a (road) playoff game because of your bench, you're kidding yourself.

These are a few of the many reasons rotations get tighter the further you advance.

[hr]

Fellow "Old timers", [how the hell did I get that label, anyway, since so many of us are in our mid-thirties?] can you help me think of any time in Pacers playoff history that the bench "won the game for us" on the road?

The closest I can think of is Byron Scott's shot in Orlando.

Every other significant road playoff win we've had has been the result of the starters, be it Chuck Person in Boston in 1991; Reggie in NYC, or anywhere else I guess; and occasionally our other first-tier starters like Rik, Jalen, and DD.

ROCislandWarrior
05-14-2004, 04:58 PM
it is a fact that the bench players always play much better at home. Even the 4th and 5th starters play much better at home. On the road the stars have to lead you.

Saturday night will be a completely different story, Reggie will be better as will the bench.
All this talk about offense is nice but the offense was fine in game #4. Pacers could not stop the Heat, that is why they lost

I don't think you can use the "Road Game" excuse with Reggie. I will give it to Fred, Jeff, Tins (although tins hasn't been bad), Cro, AJ (although AJ hasn't been bad either) and possibly Al, but I also have a problem with Al since he talks about starting all season then puts up 5th grade numbers when it counts in the Playoffs.

ChicagoJ
05-14-2004, 05:15 PM
it is a fact that the bench players always play much better at home. Even the 4th and 5th starters play much better at home. On the road the stars have to lead you.

Saturday night will be a completely different story, Reggie will be better as will the bench.
All this talk about offense is nice but the offense was fine in game #4. Pacers could not stop the Heat, that is why they lost

I don't think you can use the "Road Game" excuse with Reggie. I will give it to Fred, Jeff, Tins (although tins hasn't been bad), Cro, AJ (although AJ hasn't been bad either) and possibly Al, but I also have a problem with Al since he talks about starting all season then puts up 5th grade numbers when it counts in the Playoffs.

I dunno, Reggie hasn't exactly played a great road playoff game since the NJ series, has he?

Unclebuck
05-14-2004, 05:21 PM
Reggie used to be a great road player, but if you look at his numbers the past two seasons, he is much better at home. That certainly was not the case from about 1994 through 2002.

J.O and Ron are both better on the road, they shoot better, and play better. Tinsley is about even home vs road as is Jeff. They are different type players, not expected to score much.

ChicagoJ
05-15-2004, 11:44 AM
From today's Indy Star (sorry I forgot to include the link)

Home-court advantage
How the Pacers have fared in the playoffs at home and on the road since the 1993-94 season:

Year Home Away
1994 6-1 4-5
1995 7-1 3-6
1996 1-2 1-1
1998 8-0 2-6
1999 5-2 4-2
2000 9-3 3-7
2001 0-2 1-1
2002 1-1 1-2
2003 2-1 0-3
Totals 39-13 19-33

Yes, there is a huge discrepancy between home and road playoff results.

ROCislandWarrior
05-15-2004, 12:49 PM
2000 9-3 3-7

wow, the year we went to the finals our road record was terrible

see Shade, there is still hope

Tim
05-15-2004, 03:36 PM
it is a fact that the bench players always play much better at home. Even the 4th and 5th starters play much better at home. On the road the stars have to lead you.

Saturday night will be a completely different story, Reggie will be better as will the bench.
All this talk about offense is nice but the offense was fine in game #4. Pacers could not stop the Heat, that is why they lost

I don't think you can use the "Road Game" excuse with Reggie. I will give it to Fred, Jeff, Tins (although tins hasn't been bad), Cro, AJ (although AJ hasn't been bad either) and possibly Al, but I also have a problem with Al since he talks about starting all season then puts up 5th grade numbers when it counts in the Playoffs.

I understand your meaning but to be fair to Al, he didn't talk about starting all season, only a few times in the first month or so.

Al has to play better, even with the hurt hand he must do other things well.
He has to play with more energy than the last two games.

ROCislandWarrior
05-15-2004, 03:51 PM
it is a fact that the bench players always play much better at home. Even the 4th and 5th starters play much better at home. On the road the stars have to lead you.

Saturday night will be a completely different story, Reggie will be better as will the bench.
All this talk about offense is nice but the offense was fine in game #4. Pacers could not stop the Heat, that is why they lost

I don't think you can use the "Road Game" excuse with Reggie. I will give it to Fred, Jeff, Tins (although tins hasn't been bad), Cro, AJ (although AJ hasn't been bad either) and possibly Al, but I also have a problem with Al since he talks about starting all season then puts up 5th grade numbers when it counts in the Playoffs.

I understand your meaning but to be fair to Al, he didn't talk about starting all season, only a few times in the first month or so.

Al has to play better, even with the hurt hand he must do other things well.
He has to play with more energy than the last two games.

EXACTLY! In the Boston series he came out like the Al we all knew before the injury. Al doesn't have to score for me to be pleased with his game, all he has to do is play with that wreckless abandon he used to.