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sweabs
05-13-2004, 01:03 PM
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indygeezer
05-13-2004, 01:07 PM
I wanted to say "the finals" then I thought..."that from a team that's never been out of the 1st round????" OK make to ECF I guess, but I'll be disppointed.

BillS
05-13-2004, 01:07 PM
At least the NBA finals, would make us somewhat successful. Only a ring will make me happy.

This team has been too good to settle for anything less, they have repeatedly said they don't want to settle for anything less.

sweabs
05-13-2004, 01:09 PM
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Unclebuck
05-13-2004, 01:11 PM
Good question.

if the Pacers lose this series it will be a major disapointment and it will tarnish their whole season. Changes needed.

if Pacers lose to the Nets or Pistons in the ECF. Let's say it goes 6 or 7 and the Pacers lose. I would say Pacers had a very good season. I don't think a loss in the ECF would tarnish their whole season. Major changes not needed.

Anything better would IMO turn the season into one of the best Pacers season ever.

sweabs
05-13-2004, 01:17 PM
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Shade
05-13-2004, 01:44 PM
At least the NBA finals, would make us somewhat successful. Only a ring will make me happy.

This team has been too good to settle for anything less, they have repeatedly said they don't want to settle for anything less.

I agree. And not only to make the Finals, but to push it to at least a hard-fought six games. We're a 61-win team despite everything else, and nobody else exactly looks like world-beaters out there either.

TheSauceMaster
05-13-2004, 01:58 PM
That's the problem most everyone is thinking about the Heat of the regular season this Heat team is much diffrent for some reason and we aren't the same smooth flowing team that we were in the season. To analyzae this series from a non fan view of this series , we have not put together really a solid game in this series yet we seem like a nice v8 engine firing on 4 cylinders and not all 8 right now.

I will be very disappointed if we lose this series and Like UB said if we do sorry we need changes for next season. Some might disagree with me but now I am feeling that 11 day layoff has really hurt us more than we all realized we , the bench has really been a non factor for the most part of this series and it seems only 2 starters for the past 2 games care to step up and take the scoring load with no help from the rest of the team.

I am not gonna give up hope though til we lose our last game of any series , I will still be a pacers fan win or lose or where ever we finish this season and this is the reason I have not been going around of preaching were the best, were gonna be going to the finals and all that stuff. Yes I have confidence in my team and faith or I would have probably left by now, but I guess you can say I am a skeptic by natureand have seen some other what were suposed to be great pacer teams belly up.


I have heard some of the players complain about respect from the media and others, well I am sorry if they want respect they are sure going in the wrong direction to get it. I am not giving up on my pacers no matter how grim it may seem or will ever seem that we might not make it , the team needs it fans the most right now .

I think we are all abit spoiled right now from the wonderful season we have had and maybe this team and it's fans needed a big dose of reality and maybe this is the kinda test we need before the ECF if we make it there because it's only gonna get harder folks as we advance in rounds.

I hope were just facing a bump in the road right now and I think saturday will give us more insight on where we go from here, so if there is anyway you can make it too game 5 , please do because our team needs us as fans to give them some Love and Support at home .

Hicks
05-13-2004, 02:03 PM
I can live with ECF. I'd be happy with a contested Finals.

ChicagoJ
05-13-2004, 03:28 PM
Its so rare for a team to from first-round exits to the Finals in just one season.

A reminder of Jay's grading scale, :trophy: = A; losing in game #7 of The Finals = A-; losing in game #6 of The Finals = B+; etc.

So I'll be disappointed if we don't win a :trophy:.

However, a realistic expectation is for this team to qualify for and then lose in the ECF.

Don't be deceived by our regular season success this season. Its nice but its mostly meaningless. Our core of players still need to learn how to win playoff games. This isn't the same as beating a 36-win or even a 42-win team at home. I'm talking about learning how to win a physical and competitive playoff game that goes down to the wire. This little stretch of adversity is going to be good for us, long term.

ABADays
05-13-2004, 03:34 PM
NBA Finals. No excuses.

Peck
05-13-2004, 05:21 PM
Good question.

if the Pacers lose this series it will be a major disapointment and it will tarnish their whole season. Changes needed.

if Pacers lose to the Nets or Pistons in the ECF. Let's say it goes 6 or 7 and the Pacers lose. I would say Pacers had a very good season. I don't think a loss in the ECF would tarnish their whole season. Major changes not needed.

Anything better would IMO turn the season into one of the best Pacers season ever.

This is exactly my opinion.

However I want you to expand on what I highlighted.

What changes would be needed? To me there would be a lot of similarities between a loss to the heat & last seasons loss to the Celtics.

I don't want to discount the first round, but let's be honest. Boston, by their own admission, should not have been a playoff team.

Miami has some similar qualities to last seasons Boston team.

But my point is, where would you make the changes here? We've already changed the coaching so I don't think anybody would advocate that again.

Forwards? O'Neal & Artest are all-stars & both have played fairly well during the playoffs. One could ask though, how mentally tough is O'Neal?

Is he the guy who can pick the team up? But in reality how could you even pretend to trade the guy & even come close to fair value?

Artest? I don't think you can fault him for anything in the playoffs so far. He's fought hard every game & has led us in both defense & scoring.

Guards? Shooting guard spot IMO is & has been a problem for a long time, point guard play is solid.

Reggie Miller, you cannot win basketball games with your shooting guard being a decoy. It might work once or twice but during the playoffs teams adjust. We desperately need a slasher. But I fear that as long as Reggie wears the B/G uniform neither the fans nor the franchise will be willing to use Reggie off of the bench. So even though I could easily make an argument that S.G. could be a spot changed we all know it won't be.

Jamaal Tinsely. He's been great in the playoffs. With our frontcourt structured offense I don't think you could have one of those scoring point guards & effectively run the offense.

Center spot? Jeff has to improve his offense for us to even pretend to do any real damage. You cannot play 2 on 5 on the offensive end & pretend to succeed. Defensively he has been solid, although he is guarding the power forward & rebounding he has been his usual solid self. However the lack of any real offense other than putback shots is realy hurting. It would be nice if he could hit a face up jumper or draw fouls or pass, but we then again if he could we wouldn't be able to afford him.

I don't see anything you are going to do to get better at center.

Bench? Adjusting the bench should not cause a team to win a title. Our bench for the most part is fine. I have a problem with backup center, but then again I have a problem with the entire center spot.

Sorry I didn't mean for me to explain what I thought should be done. What do you think?

TheSauceMaster
05-13-2004, 05:31 PM
Peck I agree with you for the most part ;)

I see our problems at SG and Center and I won't even add my comments on Reggie Miller as it may upset alot of people .

ChicagoJ
05-13-2004, 05:35 PM
Good question.

if the Pacers lose this series it will be a major disapointment and it will tarnish their whole season. Changes needed.

if Pacers lose to the Nets or Pistons in the ECF. Let's say it goes 6 or 7 and the Pacers lose. I would say Pacers had a very good season. I don't think a loss in the ECF would tarnish their whole season. Major changes not needed.

Anything better would IMO turn the season into one of the best Pacers season ever.

This is exactly my opinion.

However I want you to expand on what I highlighted.

What changes would be needed? To me there would be a lot of similarities between a loss to the heat & last seasons loss to the Celtics.

I don't want to discount the first round, but let's be honest. Boston, by their own admission, should not have been a playoff team.

Miami has some similar qualities to last seasons Boston team.

But my point is, where would you make the changes here? We've already changed the coaching so I don't think anybody would advocate that again.

-snip-

If we're going to de-rail this thead, then I'm going to pipe in here and say that as soon as JVG is available again, I will advocate a coaching change, regardless of who our coach is. Unfortunately, I think that's several years away. Also, if Pat Riley is contemplating a return to coaching, I'd rather have him than let him go to Dallas. Not sure if I beleive Riley and Bird can co-exist, but I think it would be fun to watch them try. :devil:

Regardless of whether we win it all or not, we need to find a permanent SG solution (my stance is that Fred Jones is the potential third-guard, I know others disagree) that is willing to be the third option behind JO and Ron.

Unclebuck
05-13-2004, 05:37 PM
Peck, I refuse to think about the offseason.

One point I do want to make though, if the Pacers lose to the Heat I do not equate that to last season when they lost to the Celtics. 61 wins and not collapsing vs 48 wins and collapsing, I am talking about the regular season. Regular season accounts for something.


I just don't see the Pacers losing this series. Peck, I know you have been watching NBA playoffs for about as long as I have and looking at this objectively, acting like a fan of maybe the magic and a huge NBA fan, I would fully expect the Pacers to win this series. Obviously anything can happen, but I see the Pacers winning this series. My NBA playoff basketball instincts tell me that.

Unclebuck
05-13-2004, 05:41 PM
If we're going to de-rail this thead, then I'm going to pipe in here and say that as soon as JVG is available again, I will advocate a coaching change, regardless of who our coach is. Unfortunately, I think that's several years away. Also, if Pat Riley is contemplating a return to coaching, I'd rather have him than let him go to Dallas. Not sure if I beleive Riley and Bird can co-exist, but I think it would be fun to watch them try. :devil:

Regardless of whether we win it all or not, we need to find a permanent SG solution (my stance is that Fred Jones is the potential third-guard, I know others disagree) that is willing to be the third option behind JO and Ron.[/quote]


Jay, I about fell off my chair when I started reading your post, but if you are saying that in 3 maybe 4 years when a coaching change is needed that JVG or Pat Riley would be great as the replacements, then I agree with you there. Although I think Carlisle is just as good, but coaches only last 3 or 4 years, I strongly believe that.

ChicagoJ
05-13-2004, 05:58 PM
If we're going to de-rail this thead, then I'm going to pipe in here and say that as soon as JVG is available again, I will advocate a coaching change, regardless of who our coach is. Unfortunately, I think that's several years away. Also, if Pat Riley is contemplating a return to coaching, I'd rather have him than let him go to Dallas. Not sure if I beleive Riley and Bird can co-exist, but I think it would be fun to watch them try. :devil:

Regardless of whether we win it all or not, we need to find a permanent SG solution (my stance is that Fred Jones is the potential third-guard, I know others disagree) that is willing to be the third option behind JO and Ron.

Jay, I about fell off my chair when I started reading your post, but if you are saying that in 3 maybe 4 years when a coaching change is needed that JVG or Pat Riley would be great as the replacements, then I agree with you there. Although I think Carlisle is just as good, but coaches only last 3 or 4 years, I strongly believe that.

Admittedly, my post was somewhat intentionally over-the-top.

I'll agree with anyone that puts Rick in the top-five of coaches in the League. I might even agree with top-three, I think he's at least very comparable to Larry Brown and Jerry Sloan. But the guys I rank as #1 and #2, JVG and Riley, are, IMO, light years ahead of Rick, Brownie and Sloan. Why? IMO, JVG and Riley are the two best playoff coaches. Sloan is fairly respectable as a playoff coach, too. Rick and Brownie just aren't in the same class when it comes to playoff coaching. As you might have noticed, I refuse to admit that PJ is a good coach. Therefore, if one of those top two were available, I think it would be foolish to sit still and let them go to a competitor without a fight. I know it won't happen this summer because it does sound silly to advocate buying out three years of Rick's contract, but hey its not my money.

Suaveness
05-13-2004, 06:26 PM
Regardless of whether we win it all or not, we need to find a permanent SG solution (my stance is that Fred Jones is the potential third-guard, I know others disagree) that is willing to be the third option behind JO and Ron.

Third guard, eh :mad:

Peck
05-13-2004, 06:42 PM
Peck, I refuse to think about the offseason.

One point I do want to make though, if the Pacers lose to the Heat I do not equate that to last season when they lost to the Celtics. 61 wins and not collapsing vs 48 wins and collapsing, I am talking about the regular season. Regular season accounts for something.


I just don't see the Pacers losing this series. Peck, I know you have been watching NBA playoffs for about as long as I have and looking at this objectively, acting like a fan of maybe the magic and a huge NBA fan, I would fully expect the Pacers to win this series. Obviously anything can happen, but I see the Pacers winning this series. My NBA playoff basketball instincts tell me that.

Oh, I don't want to think about the off-season either. But you did bring it up with your thoughts of what was a success, so I thought now would be the time to ask you.

As to the playoffs themselves.

Let me say this, momentum can be a killer.

We had momentum going to Miami, but it was momentum based on the fact that we just didn't lose.

They now have momentum based on the fact that they are playing good.

There is a differance.

Do I think we will win this series? Yes I do.

But I caveate that by saying this, we can't just assume that because we have home court that we will win this thing.

I have a sad feeling that if the Pacers give a lackluster performance in game 5 & lose the crowd will be viscious. I think they have a tedious (at best) relationship with the local fans & now that some people have committed to rooting for them, if they choke & lose then the fieldhouse will be loud but for all of the wrong reasons.