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Jose Slaughter
02-01-2007, 10:30 PM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/44517/20070201/butler_headlines_eastern_conference_reserves/

The NBA announced the reserves of the 2006-2007 All-Star Game.

Joining the five starters that were revealed last week, the Eastern Conference will feature Vince Carter, Jason Kidd, Dwight Howard, Chauncey Billups, Caron Butler, Jermaine O'Neal and Richard Hamilton.

The 14 players selected -- seven each from the Eastern and Western Conferences -- were chosen by the 30 NBA head coaches, who were asked to vote for seven players in their respective conferences -- two guards, two forwards, one center and two players regardless of position. They were not permitted to vote for players from their own team.

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/44518/20070201/three_suns_become_western_conference_all_star_rese rves/

The Western Conference reserves in the 2006-2007 All-Star will feature Steve Nash, Allen Iverson, Dirk Nowitzki, Carlos Boozer, Amare Stoudemire, Tony Parker and Shawn Marion.

Boozer will not be able to play in the game due to injury, leaving a spot that will be filled by David Stern. Yao Ming also will not be able to play.

Bball
02-01-2007, 10:35 PM
Boozer will not be able to play in the game due to injury, leaving a spot that will be filled by David Stern.

No way Stern can fill in for Carlos Boozer. He's too small and not enough of an athlete. ...Altho I suppose if your chief defensive move is to threaten anyone who scores on you with a suspension, you will get plenty of stops.














:-p

-Bball

LoneGranger33
02-01-2007, 10:45 PM
No way Stern can fill in for Carlos Boozer. He's too small and not enough of an athlete. ...Altho I suppose if your chief defensive move is to threaten anyone who scores on you with a suspension, you will get plenty of stops.

:-p

-Bball

Hahahaha, ****. Well he certainly ain't getting any fan votes.

Naptown_Seth
02-01-2007, 11:07 PM
I believe this makes JO the Pacer with the most All-Star seasons now, passing Reggie.

Funny how used to things people get, JO has been a bigger impact player than Reggie technically, partially because effective bigs are harder to find than SGs, and yet people constantly want him gone.

The Pacers have never had a regular all-star like JO has been. Even Reggie had spotty appearances with gaps between several of them. Sure Jordan was there, but that wasn't the only roster spot available to guards.

Major Cold
02-01-2007, 11:08 PM
say hello to Camby being an Allstar...He should get it before AI

Young
02-01-2007, 11:15 PM
I'm suprised but happy to see that Billups, Hamilton, and Butler all got nods as All-Stars. I think it is well deserved but of course some guys were left off who could have made it but there always is.

Jose Slaughter
02-01-2007, 11:15 PM
I think Anthony gets in now too.

Eindar
02-02-2007, 12:20 AM
I believe this makes JO the Pacer with the most All-Star seasons now, passing Reggie.

Funny how used to things people get, JO has been a bigger impact player than Reggie technically, partially because effective bigs are harder to find than SGs, and yet people constantly want him gone.

The Pacers have never had a regular all-star like JO has been. Even Reggie had spotty appearances with gaps between several of them. Sure Jordan was there, but that wasn't the only roster spot available to guards.

Just like you can't compare Kevin Garnett's numbers to Bill Russell's numbers, it's really, really hard to compare JO to Reggie when it comes to All-Star appearances, starting with the fact that the East was dominant in Reggie's day, while the West is dominant now. JO likely wouldn't have made the All-Star team this year if he'd played for, say, Golden State.

I'm not saying you're wrong, because he has been our first real perennial All-Star, but comparing him to Reggie is tough at best.

Eindar
02-02-2007, 12:22 AM
The West reserves would be an All-Star team in the East, that's hilarious.

Cactus Jax
02-02-2007, 01:48 AM
Guessing Carmelo Anthony and Josh Howard fill in for Yao, and Boozer.

Robertmto
02-02-2007, 02:08 AM
Tony Parker isn't an All Star. Josh Howard is.

denyfizle
02-02-2007, 03:15 AM
Good job on gettin Caron in the game. He deserves it. Can't argue on Parker being an all-star and as much as I am an Iverson fan, he's the most suspect to me in the West. But the West is packed so it's inevitable that there will be an arguement there no matter who gets picked. Howard should've made it. They have the best record. Anthony, you can understand why he's not because he was suspended but he deserves to be there too. Deron Williams deserves consideration. If Chris Paul didn't get injured, deserves it too.

Naptown_Seth
02-02-2007, 03:43 AM
Just like you can't compare Kevin Garnett's numbers to Bill Russell's numbers, it's really, really hard to compare JO to Reggie when it comes to All-Star appearances, starting with the fact that the East was dominant in Reggie's day, while the West is dominant now. JO likely wouldn't have made the All-Star team this year if he'd played for, say, Golden State.

I'm not saying you're wrong, because he has been our first real perennial All-Star, but comparing him to Reggie is tough at best.
I disagree with that. The BULLS were dominant, but it was the West sporting all those 60 win teams (like Utah and Seattle).

JO is in a conference that now features bigs like Howard, Bosh, Shaq, Okafur, Wallace and Wallace. Big Z too. And he went one year in which Brad Miller also went.

I think a list like that sounds a lot like the list of players Reggie was up against typically. Great big men are rarer, but that only adds fuel to the importance of JO with the Pacers, and as rare as they have been Dale and Rik both only made their way on to 1 team each.

Hersey Hawkins, Ricky Pierce, Alvin Robertson, Michael Adams, BJ Armstrong, John Starks...these are some of the guys that went to teams in years he didn't make it.

Even Detlef beat Reggie out of a spot, which itself makes a point I think because Detlef was a better all-around player at the time IMO, yet people think of those borderline teams being Reggie all by himself. The numbers (and what I saw at those games) say otherwise.


I love Reggie and think he was always underappreciated nationally. But he was slightly overvalued in Indy after those endless moments of heroism. JO is one of the biggest threats on the court at both ends, and clearly Reggie was not. Reggie was famously HOF level CLUTCH and big from 3, enough to warrant those teams and perhaps a few others.

But JO has made it on not just by fan votes but by COACHES' votes, and hasn't been bumped out by those flash-in-the-pan 1-timer players like Reggie was many times.

Kraft
02-02-2007, 03:45 AM
Please, Mr. Stern, look at Deron Williams. He didn't try to ******slap anyone.

Eindar
02-02-2007, 06:15 AM
I disagree with that. The BULLS were dominant, but it was the West sporting all those 60 win teams (like Utah and Seattle).

JO is in a conference that now features bigs like Howard, Bosh, Shaq, Okafur, Wallace and Wallace. Big Z too. And he went one year in which Brad Miller also went.

I think a list like that sounds a lot like the list of players Reggie was up against typically. Great big men are rarer, but that only adds fuel to the importance of JO with the Pacers, and as rare as they have been Dale and Rik both only made their way on to 1 team each.

Hersey Hawkins, Ricky Pierce, Alvin Robertson, Michael Adams, BJ Armstrong, John Starks...these are some of the guys that went to teams in years he didn't make it.

Even Detlef beat Reggie out of a spot, which itself makes a point I think because Detlef was a better all-around player at the time IMO, yet people think of those borderline teams being Reggie all by himself. The numbers (and what I saw at those games) say otherwise.


I love Reggie and think he was always underappreciated nationally. But he was slightly overvalued in Indy after those endless moments of heroism. JO is one of the biggest threats on the court at both ends, and clearly Reggie was not. Reggie was famously HOF level CLUTCH and big from 3, enough to warrant those teams and perhaps a few others.

But JO has made it on not just by fan votes but by COACHES' votes, and hasn't been bumped out by those flash-in-the-pan 1-timer players like Reggie was many times.

I'd like to point out that the names you put around JO in terms of "big men" includes guys who are past their prime and guys who are just now coming into their prime. And JO is a backup, surrounded by those guys. Honestly, there's a reason he's a 5-time All-Star, and while a good portion of it is due to being an incredible player, there's another portion that's due to him being one of the only elite big men in his conference for years. There's a reason Jamaal Magloire went to an All-Star Game.

I'd like to analyze the guys who beat Reggie out in the years that they did.

Alvin Robertson was a 4-time All-Star (who knew??) who hung his hat on defense, and happened to lead the league in steals that year, and would also retire with the highest steals per game total in league history. Not a bad player, and hard for a 3rd year player to beat for an All-Star spot.

Hersey Hawkins I'm assuming was the one who edged out Reggie in 1991, and I can see why. He matched Reggie's point totals as a #2 option, and he played on a better team. Same deal with Pierce. Averaged 22 PPG on a better team. Keep in mind, that makes 2 guards in 91 who averaged 22+ PPG as SUBS for the East during an era of "no layups", handchecking basketball. Also, one of these guys was an appointee, because Larry Bird was injured, so it wasn't a coaches' vote sort of thing.

Michael Adams is another one of the one-timers, but he was averaging 18ppg, 4 RPG, and 7.6 APG, which are pretty good numbers for a PG. Despite that, he was only selected due to Larry Bird and Dominique Wilkins ducking out due to injury, so he technically doesn't belong on that list, since the coaches didn't vote him in, nor did the fans.

As for B.J. Armstrong, I'm baffled on that one. Since he's listed in the top 5 in the box score, I assume the chicago fans voted him in, since his stats that year were mediocre, and the team was decent but not great. Starks, well, was Starks. He had a good year that year, and it burns to say it, but he deserved the spot, having averaged 19 and 7 that year.

Regardless of those guys not being household names, I can understand why each (except for fan-favorite BJ Armstrong) was selected over Reggie that particular season, and their numbers, that year, were worthy of selection.

What does all this mean? To me, nothing. I think it's a little far-fetched to claim a player has more "impact" due to All-Star appearances, as BJ Armstrong can attest to. It's more about popularity than anything, for the starters, and it's more about deserving it when it comes to the subs, but we don't keep track of if you started or if you were a sub. If we're taking All-Star votes to corrolate into NBA ability, Vince Carter is better than Michael Jordan, because he was the starter one year over MJ.

That's the farthest end of the spectrum in terms of how screwy the NBA All-Star selection process is, but I think it pretty well proves how subjective and arbitrary the All-Star nod is, and also how it's a poor indicator of someone's...impact on a day-to-day basis.

Like I said, I'm not saying JO isn't deserving, and I really couldn't say who was the "better" player at this point in their career. But I can say with certainty that All-Star appearances is a bad measure of a player's worth, especially when we're talking about guys who's careers and positions don't really overlap.

Wow, that was a lot more work that I'd planned to put into that.

Unclebuck
02-02-2007, 09:44 AM
Josh Howard needs to be added.

rexnom
02-02-2007, 10:36 AM
Josh Howard needs to be added.
The amazing point made on TNT last night was that NJ got 2, Detroit got 2, SA got 2, Miami got 2, Washington got 2, Phoenix got 3, and Dallas is definitely not a one-trick pony when it comes to players (And I would argue that only Washington, Phoenix, Dallas, and SA, despite Parker not being as good as, say AI, deserve 2). Josh has been HUGE for them.

Unclebuck
02-02-2007, 10:45 AM
Josh is what I call a winning player. His stats aren't that great, but he's the second most important player on a team that has a 81% winning percentage. I realize the western conference is impossible to only pick 12 guys

imawhat
02-02-2007, 01:22 PM
I'm surprised Michael Redd didn't make the team. His numbers were too good, and it's not his fault his team isn't better.

rexnom
02-02-2007, 02:01 PM
I'm surprised Michael Redd didn't make the team. His numbers were too good, and it's not his fault his team isn't better.
I would have preferred him and Ben Gordon over Vince Carter and Chauncey Billups.

AesopRockOn
02-02-2007, 02:14 PM
Pierce was also playing great in the beginning of the season but was shot down by injury.

FlavaDave
02-02-2007, 04:32 PM
I'm surprised Michael Redd didn't make the team. His numbers were too good, and it's not his fault his team isn't better.


He's out with an injury, so he couldn't play anyway. He's been out for over a month and that was a factor too, I'm sure.