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View Full Version : Freddy Jones for Backup PG



Anthem
01-25-2004, 12:45 AM
Who's with me? He hardly needs to run the offense, since Johnson never does.

Kstat
01-25-2004, 12:47 AM
Who's with me? He hardly needs to run the offense, since Johnson never does.

Yes, but Johnson has this ability to SHOOT the ball....

DisplacedKnick
01-25-2004, 12:52 AM
Who's with me? He hardly needs to run the offense, since Johnson never does.

Yes, but Johnson has this ability to SHOOT the ball....

There's something that, before this season, I NEVER thought I'd see in print.

3rdBattboy
01-25-2004, 01:04 AM
Freddy Jones has combo guard written all over him. Hes not a true pg, however he is unselfish, hes excellent at getting into the pain and dishing to our big guys,decent ball handler just can't shoot the ball. Hes also one of the top defenders on this team on the perimiter. If he ever learns to shoot the ball his game will take off.

Unclebuck
01-25-2004, 01:20 AM
Freddy Jones has combo guard written all over him. Hes not a true pg, however he is unselfish, hes excellent at getting into the pain and dishing to our big guys,decent ball handler just can't shoot the ball. Hes also one of the top defenders on this team on the perimiter. If he ever learns to shoot the ball his game will take off.


I agree with all of that.

If Isiah were still the coach, I think you would see Freddie at point guard, but now that I think about it with isiah Thomas you might have seen Pollard play some point guard. .

I think in the future you might very well see Freddie play some point but not this year. He is still an inexperienced player, and it is easier to learn just one position, plus Rick is the type of coach that would want to try him at point guard in training camp.

However, usually AJ and Freddie are in the game together, and AJ brings the ball up the floor but Freddie often runs a pick and roll or he ends up creating more offense than AJ does

bulletproof
01-25-2004, 02:13 AM
Freddy Jones has combo guard written all over him. Hes not a true pg, however he is unselfish, hes excellent at getting into the pain and dishing to our big guys,decent ball handler just can't shoot the ball. Hes also one of the top defenders on this team on the perimiter. If he ever learns to shoot the ball his game will take off.


I agree with all of that.

If Isiah were still the coach, I think you would see Freddie at point guard, but now that I think about it with isiah Thomas you might have seen Pollard play some point guard.

:laugh:

Suaveness
01-25-2004, 02:35 AM
I have always been a freddie supporter, and I really think he is a valuable asset to this team. He is able to drive to the basket, and once he develops a shot, he will be good. Remember, he is playing his first REAL playing time. Last year, he didn't play.

Anthem
01-25-2004, 03:21 AM
I think in the future you might very well see Freddie play some point but not this year. He is still an inexperienced player, and it is easier to learn just one position, plus Rick is the type of coach that would want to try him at point guard in training camp.

Rick had Jones spend all of his minutes at the point for the summer leagues.

For the preseason games, we split time between Brewer and Omar Cook, trying to see who we'd keep.

Anthem
01-25-2004, 03:27 AM
Who's with me? He hardly needs to run the offense, since Johnson never does.

Yes, but Johnson has this ability to SHOOT the ball....

Yes, but Jones has the ability to DRIBBLE... :flirt:

At the beginning of the season, I'd have said that Johnson's definately a better 3-point shooter than Freddy. Inside the arc, though, I like Freddy's chances better, because he can get into the lane a lot better.

But look at the stats since the new year. AJ is 4-15 on 3FGs in January, while Freddy is 3-10. Doesn't look like a big difference to me...

I agree that to be the ideal backup combo guard, he needs an outside shot that's decent or better. But how good does he need to be to be better than what we have now?

MSA2CF
01-25-2004, 10:16 AM
I don't care what the statistics say on that one.

Freddie Jones cannot shoot a jumpshot. It's one of the ugliest shots I have ever seen...Almost as ugly as Shaq shooting free throws in 2000. :puke:

Peck
01-25-2004, 10:39 AM
I kind of have my Bender belief's on this thought.

My thought is let's let Fred learn a spot on the floor & then try & get him to do other things. Right now he is a two & that is where he should spend his time. We have three (3) backup point guards if we need them. If we were short in that catagory or something I would be ok with this but since it's not something we have to have I say let Fred play the two spot.

DisplacedKnick
01-25-2004, 11:05 AM
I think in the future you might very well see Freddie play some point but not this year. He is still an inexperienced player, and it is easier to learn just one position, plus Rick is the type of coach that would want to try him at point guard in training camp.



That is exactly right. Carlisle's not gonna go for a mid-season experimentation - not with a winning team.

If the Pacers get a 7-game losing streak going, like the Pistons have the last two years, it could happen but otherwise that'll wait until next fall.

Hicks
01-25-2004, 11:47 AM
But look at the stats since the new year. AJ is 4-15 on 3FGs in January, while Freddy is 3-10. Doesn't look like a big difference to me...

What you're leaving out is that for the former it's a slump and for the latter it's a streak. :laugh:

sixthman
01-25-2004, 01:18 PM
The thought of Freddie at point this year makes my liver shiver. He does not have point guard skills offensively, although I will admit he would be an upgrade at the defensive end.

beast23
01-25-2004, 01:32 PM
You know where I'd like to see Freddy play?

On another team.....

Yeah, we haven't really gotten to see Freddy play much, but you iknow how you look at a player and you can see something special in him.

I don't see that with Fred.

Yeah, he may get ya excited with a flashy dunk....

Among our young guys, Bender is the player that I put in this category. Yes, I know. You can't coach height. But Bender is the player who occassionally shows the flashy dunk and sometimes the spectacular block on help defense. But he also shows no signs of really "knowing" how to play either end of the floor.

I think you're short-changing Freddie a bit. Unlike Bender, he knows how to play the defensive end of the court. He's actually quite accomplished defensively, proving to be a stopper on the opposing PG or SG on occassion. Defense.... that's half the battle right there.

Freddie also seems to have grasped the offensive sets. Just as important he is a very quick player with a fairly decent handle who is capable of exploding to the basket. As Pacer fans, we can acknowledge that this team has lacked this ability through the years.

Freddie is not tall, but does have exceptional hops. I think most would agree that the biggest hole in his game is his ability to consistently hit the mid-range and longer jumper.

After only 1-1/2 seasons and only a $1.5M salary (only $2.3M next season), I don't think it would be asking too much to wiat a while to see if we can better develop his perimeter shooting abilities before making the decision to package him in a trade. Particularly considering that he is already an accomplished man-on defender.

Unclebuck
01-25-2004, 02:05 PM
I really like Freddie a lot as a player and it has nothing to do with his occassional spectatular dunk, that means nothing to me.

He is exceptional defensively, especially when you consider this is his first year playing. He defends Baron Davis and Iverson and several other quick players better than anyone else on the Pacers.

Freddie is also very good at making the scoring pass, he can create for his teammates.

I also like his demeanor on the court, he never changes his expressions.

he also has physical and mental toughness that I like.

But is shooting is horrible, really bad. If he can become an average shooter, I would have no problem at all with him being the stating shooting guard of the future. ( I don't know if he'll ever be an average shooter though)

Suaveness
01-25-2004, 03:43 PM
I have confidence that fred can become a decent shooter. In college, he didn't really shoot all that much. He ended up driving past people easily and getting to the rim. So he hasnt had much practice. But as shown this year, he can hit his FTs. I think he's 4th on this team (behind Reg, AC, and AJ). And his 3 pt shot isn't bad. He was on a tear in the preseason, right? So I don't think that he cannot be a good shooter. It takes time. Remember, Jason Kidd wasn't all that great when he first came. But he got better. I believe he can improve, so I have no worries.

zxc
01-25-2004, 04:00 PM
I don't mean to Monday morning quarterback, but look at who we passed up immediately following drafting Fred: Kareem Rush, Juan Dixon, Jiri Welsh, Curtis Borshcart (Man, that one haunts me a bit. That kid might have ade a GREAT Pacer.), Qyntel Woods.

Not a big fan of Fred myself, but that list hardly makes me regret picking him. Don't think any of those players would be helping us much more.

..Curtis Borchardt (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/curtis_borchardt/index.html) though? Hope you meant Carlos Boozer or something.

Roy Munson
01-25-2004, 09:05 PM
You know where I'd like to see Freddy play?

On another team. :o




I realize that it is bad manners to say this, but that is really an ignorant viewpoint.

Don't you realize that Carlisle is a defense-first coach, and this is a defense-first team? Freddie is one of the very best defenders on one of the very best teams in the league.

Whether you want to believe it or not, he has a lot to do with the Pacers' very good record. Sure, he's a 15 minute-per-game player and he doesn't score a lot, but what he gives the team is a chance to rest the starters while actually PICKING UP the level of defense that the other team has to deal with.

Very seldom does the man he guards score very much....if at all. Freddie is very valuable. If you take a more informed look at the situation -- and not just look at the shooting percentages and scoring averages -- you could understand that.

I'd take Freddie any day over Rush, or Welsch or Dixon. It's not even close.

Eindar
01-25-2004, 11:02 PM
During the draft, I wanted Welsch. I knew he had PG skills, SG range, and SF size. I still feel that out of the picks surrounding Jones, Welsch will be the steal. I figured we'd draft Rush, which I'm glad we didn't. Is there really any difference between him and Ron Mercer, other than Mercer has scored 20ppg in a season? Woods had too much baggage for me to consider. It would disgust me if we turned into the JailBlazers. Even RonRon is considered to be a good person, even if his rage gets the better of him sometimes :)

I think Jones was a good pick for a team that was thin at both PG and SG and needed a slasher. And we're still thin at SG, so who knows? Finally, when praying for Fred Jones, keep Bobby Jackson in mind. :dance:

Anthem
04-26-2005, 02:21 AM
:bump:

Kstat
04-26-2005, 02:23 AM
why would you bump this?

I dont remember having such faith in AJ..... guess I'm too smart for my own good :laugh:

Anthem
04-26-2005, 02:31 AM
why would you bump this?

I dont remember having such faith in AJ..... guess I'm too smart for my own good :laugh:

I meant to start a new topic, but I forgot. So here goes:

What did everyone think of Fred at backup PG tonight? While he wasn't wonderful, I thought he was an upgrade over Gill...

Kstat
04-26-2005, 02:34 AM
Any random pacemate would be an upgrade over Gill.

And Freddy still has the very bad habit of driving into traffic and leaving his feet before he decides what to do.

skyfire
04-26-2005, 03:07 AM
I think Gill could be a solid 3rd PG in the NBA, if he would stop trying to make the pretty pass and just make a good pass. Every time he makes a one handed pass (which is waaay too often) it goes flying out of court or to the opponent.

Similar to the benching that Tins recieved when Carlisle first arrived in Indy, except I dont know if Gill can get any deeper down the bench right now.

Kegboy
04-26-2005, 10:41 AM
Any random pacemate would be an upgrade over Gill.

Please. Considering half of them still mess up routines I've got memorized, I don't think so.

If Natalie were still around though, yeah, she'd be good.

Unclebuck
04-26-2005, 10:43 AM
I say anyone but Gill.

Suaveness
04-26-2005, 10:52 AM
Gill is terrible. Honestly, I have not seen as incompetant a PG on the Pacers as him.

Kegboy
04-26-2005, 11:15 AM
I think you guys are too hard on Gill. Saturday was his first playoff game. He certainly has his faults, but name another third-string pg who would have contributed as much as he has this year. Brewer? Edney???

Anthem
04-26-2005, 11:28 AM
I think you guys are too hard on Gill. Saturday was his first playoff game. He certainly has his faults, but name another third-string pg who would have contributed as much as he has this year. Brewer? Edney???

I have nothing against Gill. But I've been lobbying for Freddy to get time at PG for 2 years now.

Think how much better a situation we'd be in right now if Freddy had more experience at PG.

Ragnar
04-26-2005, 11:30 AM
I thought Fred did a decent job last night. He is more of an open court player than a half court player but he handled it better than Gill did.

beast23
04-26-2005, 12:33 PM
I don't think Gill's skills are needed on this team at all.

In fact, if we could just count on Tinsley to remain healthy, I'd say we don't even need a 3rd PG. We would have:
1. Tinsley
2. AJ
3. Freddie
4. Emergencies - SJAX / Artest

I think that Gill's roster spot would be better filled by a specialist. Maybe a lights out shoot that can do nothing else. Or a defensive stopper without an offensive game.

In other words, someone extremely gifted at one aspect of the game that has major flaws in most other aspects of the game. Those players can help you for a few possessions at a time, but will not require much more than a minimum contract.

bmac
04-26-2005, 12:40 PM
I thought Payton was really playing physical on Freddy, knowing that Mr. Jones was playing out of position. Freddie didn't really initiate any offense but at least he wasn't forcing passes and giving up turnovers. Eddie G was pretty poor in that first game.....Sooner or later one of Freddie's drives to the hoop will pay off. Right now he's shooting as bad as Austin.

rel
04-26-2005, 04:25 PM
Not a big fan of Fred myself, but that list hardly makes me regret picking him. Don't think any of those players would be helping us much more.

..Curtis Borchardt (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/curtis_borchardt/index.html) though? Hope you meant Carlos Boozer or something.

haha...curtis borchardt

this is a bit off topic but every single time i see his name i just start laughing
because a nickname i gave him was "CARDIAC BORCHARDT", cardiac came from a nickname ron artest was given, "cardiac artest" (cardiac arrest) and for some reason i gave it to him...you guys might not find this funny, but decided to share it anyways

Jon Theodore
04-26-2005, 04:38 PM
Everyone here seems to be watching a different team than me.

Fred Jones is an excellent player for the money

He is a solid defender....and in the beginning of the season he was stroking it from three. He fell into a slump, but the man has played in more games than anyone on our team this season. Fred seems out of gas to me, he is young and needs proper conditioning....NBA conditioning.

Fred Jones to me will peak at a Stephen Jackson esque level. Probably not all-star caliber, but right there.

We gotta keep Jones. If he learns anything from being a teammate with Reggie Miller, he should be good.

waxman
04-26-2005, 04:59 PM
Its not you JT,,,, most of these posts are from over a year ago.

Kegboy
04-26-2005, 05:30 PM
I don't think Gill's skills are needed on this team at all.

In fact, if we could just count on Tinsley to remain healthy, I'd say we don't even need a 3rd PG. We would have:
1. Tinsley
2. AJ
3. Freddie
4. Emergencies - SJAX / Artest

I think that Gill's roster spot would be better filled by a specialist. Maybe a lights out shoot that can do nothing else. Or a defensive stopper without an offensive game.

In other words, someone extremely gifted at one aspect of the game that has major flaws in most other aspects of the game. Those players can help you for a few possessions at a time, but will not require much more than a minimum contract.

You're right that in general, you don't need a 3rd point. Who was the guy behind Jax and Best? Exactly. Even better if you have a combo guard like Freddie who can at least guard the 1, even if he doesn't know how to "point" himself. But when you're starting pg misses half the year, you need more than Freddie to handle the minutes.