PDA

View Full Version : A prime example of Rick Carlisle being short-sighted.



Hicks
01-27-2007, 08:55 PM
I totally disagree with this mentality. Rick is too worried about the regular season and not enough about the postseason.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/shortsighted.mov

Anthem
01-27-2007, 09:18 PM
I totally disagree with this mentality. Rick is too worried about the regular season and not enough about the postseason.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/shortsighted.mov
That's the right answer (in public).

Shortsighted is putting in Jermaine/Danny/Tinsley when there's 2 minutes left and we're up by 14. We should have given the young guys some time there, and saved the starters for the Pistons game.

avoidingtheclowns
01-27-2007, 09:20 PM
i agree to a point, but i also think the more this team can work together and play with each other the better... consider the 4th quarter a preseason game before detroit. lol

bellisimo
01-27-2007, 09:22 PM
this comment has no effect towards the post season...
if you think too far ahead...you run into a chance of not getting there in the first place....

rexnom
01-27-2007, 09:24 PM
I would agree with you but at this point we're still ironing out the rotation...come back to me in a few weeks.

Hicks
01-27-2007, 09:24 PM
this comment has no effect towards the post season...
if you think too far ahead...you run into a chance of not getting there in the first place....

To me overplaying your old players (by old I mean guys who can't go full-out for big minutes like they used to) is as bad as not playing your young guys (when your team isn't a veteran club that's already one of the best in the league like the 2000 Pacers). Too much worry about winning a handful of extra regular season games when those could be times to rest your old guys and develop the younger guys you're going to need to be ready and confident to contribute by April if you want to make any noise.

imawhat
01-27-2007, 09:36 PM
I'm guessing you're talking about Rick's DA comment, Hicks.

I noticed it too.


I thought it was hyperbolic on Rick's part, but he really needs to start thinking about the future. I think he has trust issues with his backup PGs, which is a shame. DA will be out of gas by the end of the season, and we'll be creeping into the playoffs if we keep playing like DA.

quiller
01-27-2007, 10:11 PM
Lets see what happens late in the season.... now is the time to make a push to get near the top of the division not worrry about the playoffs.. last month of the season you can take a look at where you are and decide... DA might get a little more rest the last few weeks of the season if it looks like we have no chance of getting a good seed...

NuffSaid
01-27-2007, 11:31 PM
I don't have a problem with RC's comments. Not at all.

You game plan for the next one, of course, but you can't be thinking about the post-season when it's not even here yet! The focus must be in the here and now. And as for how much you play Army, you play him for as long as he feels he can go and be productive. Doesn't mean you put him in for 25-35 minutes, but you use him and let him dictate how long he's good for. Trust me when I say, Army will pull himself out of the game before he falls flat and becomes a detriment to his team. Of that I'm sure.

Los Angeles
01-27-2007, 11:40 PM
I think you're making a whole lot out of very little here.

Rick has a TREMENDOUS amount of work to do to get this team anywhere near playoff ready. That includes finding out where the spirit of the team is, and letting them fight it out on the court for 10 or so games before settling them down.

skyfire
01-28-2007, 12:42 AM
JO played the most minutes with 36, none of the other starters played more than 33. DA played 16minutes, which is probbly on the high side of what could be considered sustainable for his age.

It might have been nice to see an extra couple of mins from the young guys but if he had switched the bench in and the Raps had closed then people would be complaining about that.

Seems Rick cant do anything without someone complaining about something.

Jose Slaughter
01-28-2007, 01:39 AM
Hicks

I understand where you're coming from on this but I have two points you may want to consider a little more.

1. When teams reach the playoffs it is common for a coach to tighten the rotation. Carlise will play his starters and key reserves slightly more minutes. Armstrong could be third in line when McLeod get healthy or Daniels can get some extra minutes at the one.

2. The playoff format helps the older players. There is far less travel & always at least a day between games.

With that said, once McLeod is ready to play I see no need to play Armstrong more than 14 or 15 minutes a night, if that. I would cut Tinsleys minutes & play Daniels & McLeod more.

Swingman
01-28-2007, 01:40 AM
I totally disagree with this mentality. Rick is too worried about the regular season and not enough about the postseason.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/shortsighted.mov

"playoffs, don't talk about playoffs, are you kidding me? playoffs? I just hope we can win a game."

vbg Thought of that quote when I read this thread.

CableKC
01-28-2007, 02:36 AM
To me overplaying your old players (by old I mean guys who can't go full-out for big minutes like they used to) is as bad as not playing your young guys (when your team isn't a veteran club that's already one of the best in the league like the 2000 Pacers). Too much worry about winning a handful of extra regular season games when those could be times to rest your old guys and develop the younger guys you're going to need to be ready and confident to contribute by April if you want to make any noise.
I completely agree here.....especially given our injury history with certain key players.....and the team overall.....I have always been a proponent of playing with 9 to 10 man rotation where we give enough minute to the starters and the 6th / 7th rotational players to help win games.....but enough CONSISTENT minutes to the 8th to 10th rotational players to keep them fresh and involved throughout the regular season so that they are not only ready to help us out for the last stretch of the regular season....but to keep the starters rested and healthy for the post season.

Hubie Brown understood this when he coached the Grizzlies and Gregg Poppavich knows this.....the regular season is a marathon...not a sprint to the end of the finish line. I would gladly sacrifice minutes ( and even some games ) to our 3rd PG option ( either Greene or McLeod ) in order to limit the # of minutes that DA and Tinsley plays so that they aren't worn out by the last 2 months of the regular season.

Besides....if we are able to keep JONeal and Tinsley to 32+ minutes...it would allow us to give some minutes to Marquis at the PG spot, while giving more minutes to Shawne at the SG/SF rotation and more backup Big Men minutes to Ike.

As far as I am concerned....the less minutes that JONeal and Tinsley are on the court...the less likely they will get injured. If one of our advantages is that we have a deep and diverse team, then we should use it throughout the course of the season. There should be a balence that Carlisle can strike in the rotation to give us some consistency while helping us win games.

CableKC
01-28-2007, 02:50 AM
Hicks

I understand where you're coming from on this but I have two points you may want to consider a little more.

1. When teams reach the playoffs it is common for a coach to tighten the rotation. Carlise will play his starters and key reserves slightly more minutes. Armstrong could be third in line when McLeod get healthy or Daniels can get some extra minutes at the one.

2. The playoff format helps the older players. There is far less travel & always at least a day between games.

With that said, once McLeod is ready to play I see no need to play Armstrong more than 14 or 15 minutes a night, if that. I would cut Tinsleys minutes & play Daniels & McLeod more.
I am sure that the rotation can be tightened as we get closer to the end of the regular season.....but until then...there is no harm in keeping a 8 to 10 man rotation to keep those that will be used in the playoffs fresher.

We may be 3-1 since the trade....but JONeal has been playing 40+ minutes over the last 4 games ( with the exception of the 36 minutes in the Raptors game ). This is way above his season and career average. I would hope that Carlisle is able to cut back his minutes to his regular 36+ mpg ( or even to 34 mpg if possible ).

Also....I agree...the more minutes that McLeod or Green plays....or more specifically....if we are able to keep Tinsley to 28-30+ and DA to 15+ minutes a game....the better we will be.

naptown
01-28-2007, 06:43 AM
Right now I think Rick is more worried about wins and building the players confidence with this new group. If we would have came out 1-3 or 0-4 after the trade I dont think the players would have responded well and things could have gone south very quickly. I think Rick is doing the right thing, at least for now.

You also have to take into consideration he is learning on the fly what these guys are capable of and what rotations work and which specific players play well together, etc, etc. There is a lot more going on here right now than what most people see. He dont have a training camp or a preseason to figure this stuff out. He has to do it in the games.

One thing I am encouraged about is the defense. That is the last aspect of the game that new guys, in a trade like this at mid season, get adjusted to. And we are trying to get 3 guys used to our defensive schemes, switches, how we respond to pick and rolls, etc, etc. Not just one guy. I am real happy with this aspect of things because it is only going to get better. When the new guys are able to quit thinking about where they are supposed to be on defense and are just instinctually reacting instead, it is going to be even better.

Hicks
01-28-2007, 11:06 AM
Hicks

I understand where you're coming from on this but I have two points you may want to consider a little more.

1. When teams reach the playoffs it is common for a coach to tighten the rotation. Carlise will play his starters and key reserves slightly more minutes. Armstrong could be third in line when McLeod get healthy or Daniels can get some extra minutes at the one.

2. The playoff format helps the older players. There is far less travel & always at least a day between games.

With that said, once McLeod is ready to play I see no need to play Armstrong more than 14 or 15 minutes a night, if that. I would cut Tinsleys minutes & play Daniels & McLeod more.

This is true. From what little I've read on McLeod, I'm hopeful he'll bring defense like Greene (only likely not that intense), but be better able to simply run an offense with nothing fancy (Kevin Ollie-esque?). If that's the case, then that should do exactly what you suggest concerning minutes played.

Anthem
01-28-2007, 01:50 PM
My dad's not a big follower of pro or college basketball, but he's high on McLeod. He thinks he'll do much better in a structured system, and doesn't think Golden State ever tried to use him properly.

Jermaniac
01-28-2007, 01:54 PM
The guy was a third string PG, what were they supposed to do, build the team around him. He is not that much better then Orien Greene.

Anthem
01-28-2007, 01:58 PM
The guy was a third string PG, what were they supposed to do, build the team around him. He is not that much better then Orien Greene.
He doesn't have to be that much better. If he's a little better, then he could get minutes for us at PG.

naptown
01-28-2007, 03:57 PM
The kid started 79 games over a two year period for Jerry Sloan at Utah. That right there alone should tell you something about him. That he plays hard, smart and within his abilities. That is all you can really ask of a back up point guard. That and he only averages right over a single turnover a game for his career.

kerosene
01-31-2007, 02:56 AM
That's the right answer (in public).

Shortsighted is putting in Jermaine/Danny/Tinsley when there's 2 minutes left and we're up by 14. We should have given the young guys some time there, and saved the starters for the Pistons game.

Or leaving Artest in at the end of a blowout that you're not on the receiving end of... on the road... in Detroit... Oh wha? Oops, wrong Pistons game
la de da :D

NuffSaid
01-31-2007, 01:42 PM
"playoffs, don't talk about playoffs, are you kidding me? playoffs? I just hope we can win a game."

vbg Thought of that quote when I read this thread.

"Playoffs? Are you kiddin' me? Playoffs? We're talking about playoffs?

Playoffs?"

:laugh: Love that commercial...!

kerosene
01-31-2007, 05:03 PM
My dad's not a big follower of pro or college basketball, but he's high on McLeod. He thinks he'll do much better in a structured system, and doesn't think Golden State ever tried to use him properly.

McLeod did alright in Utah. He's not going to take you to the Finals but you could do a lot worse IMO.