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Robertmto
01-25-2007, 07:25 PM
East

Shaq
Chris Bosh
LBJ
D Wade
Gilbert Arenas!!!!

West

Yao (won't play)
Tim Duncan
KG
T-Mac
Kobe

Anthem
01-25-2007, 07:30 PM
Shaq being starting center is a traves-sham-mockery.

Robertmto
01-25-2007, 07:32 PM
So is Bosh starting over Howard.

And TMac/Kobe over Nash

And KG over Dirk.

8.9_seconds
01-25-2007, 07:32 PM
Shaq being starting center is a traves-sham-mockery.

That is why fans should not allowed to vote in All-Star Poll
s...

QuickRelease
01-25-2007, 07:38 PM
Shaq being starting center is a traves-sham-mockery.

Well, the All-Star game is a reflection of the fan favorite more than it is a recognition of in-season accomplishment. I think a better reflection of that would be the selections the coaches make. But, all in all, I have no problem with Shaq making it. The fans want the popular guy, not necessarily the people who deserve it more. It's the world through the eyes of Sportscenter!

Kegboy
01-25-2007, 07:45 PM
Shaq being starting center is a traves-sham-mockery.

I can't wait for Graham to nail you for spelling traveshamockery wrong.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=traveshamockery

Robertmto
01-25-2007, 07:52 PM
J.O. should be starting over Bosh. He's the better player on the better team. Of course these are the same Canadians who got Vince Carter voted in over Michael Jordan, so what can you do?

Howard should be starting over JO tho.

Mac_Daddy
01-25-2007, 07:52 PM
J.O. should be starting over Bosh. He's the better player on the better team. Of course these are the same Canadians who got Vince Carter voted in over Michael Jordan, so what can you do?

Who really cares about the All-Star game anyway? I'd rather see the players that get awards deserve them. The all-star voting is just a popularity contest anyway.

Frank Slade
01-25-2007, 08:02 PM
Howard should be starting over JO tho.

Howard is a Center not a Forward in the voting. Howard (1,464,613) was less than 158,000 votes from beating out Shaq(1,622,446).

Forwards:
LeBron James (Clev) 2,516,049;
Chris Bosh (Tor) 1,091,263;
Jermaine O’Neal (Ind) 934,749

Quis
01-25-2007, 08:08 PM
Howard should be starting over JO tho.

Nah.

JO's still better. Better scorer, far better defender. Better passer. That far outweighs Howard's slightly superior rebounding.


But I do agree with you that Billups should be starting over the massively overrated black hole Gilbert "Defense? DEFENSE?!?! WHO NEEDS STINKIN' DEFENSE??!?!?!" Arenas

Shade
01-25-2007, 08:18 PM
Shaq being starting center is a traves-sham-mockery.

Even worse is a soon-to-be 3-time MVP not getting the starting nod (Nash).

Fans are idiots.

Btw, where the hell did Arenas come from? Not that he doesn't deserve it, but he must have gotten a major rush of votes at the last minute.

Jermaniac
01-25-2007, 08:20 PM
lmao @ Steve Nash not starting

Jermaniac
01-25-2007, 08:32 PM
Admins will do the admin part, you play by the rules.

thank you

Jermaniac
01-25-2007, 08:33 PM
quoting deleted post
Better inside player in what? Hockey? He is sure not a better offensive player then Jermaine, IN any category. Not one.

Robertmto
01-25-2007, 08:52 PM
Better inside player in what? Hockey? He is sure not a better offensive player then Jermaine, IN any category. Not one.

Howard has a better offensive post game then Jermaine. Jermaine is more of a jumpshooting PF for some reason.

Isaac
01-25-2007, 09:03 PM
Howard has a better offensive post game then Jermaine. Jermaine is more of a jumpshooting PF for some reason.

That is possibly the most ridiculous thing you have ever said. The main knock against Dwight is his lack of a refined post game because of the fact that his footwork is far from good in the post. He's extremely athletic and gets a ton of points from putbacks and hustle, but he and Jermaine are on opposite spectrums when it comes to their inside games.

I guarantee that if you polled all NBA coaches not one would say that Dwight has a better post game.

Jermaniac
01-25-2007, 09:05 PM
Howard has a better offensive post game then Jermaine. Jermaine is more of a jumpshooting PF for some reason.Lies. He is not close to the low post player that JO is, Jermaine shoots jump shots, doesnt mean he doesnt play in the post.

rexnom
01-25-2007, 09:07 PM
I'm not going to get into any debates. I'll just let Dat Dude speak for me...I'm pretty sure we see eye to eye on any debate here.

Robertmto
01-25-2007, 09:07 PM
That is possibly the most ridiculous thing you have ever said. The main knock against Dwight is his lack of a refined post game because of the fact that his footwork is far from good in the post. He's extremely athletic and gets a ton of points from putbacks and hustle, but he and Jermaine are on opposite spectrums when it comes to their inside games.

I guarantee that if you polled all NBA coaches not one would say that Dwight has a better post game.

ok maybe i need to explain what i meant. Dwight is a more physical, post up player. He scores more baskets from tip ins and offensive rebounds, he is stronger and has a better knack for the ball in the paint.

Is that better?

Simply put - JO is scared of contact.

Isaac
01-25-2007, 09:16 PM
Sure, but what you just said is completely different from saying that Dwight has a better inside game.

Jermaine is better then Dwight in every offensive category (except for offensive rebounding) he is better at help defense and blocking shots, he is a better free throw shooter, and a better passer.

Dwight is more physical and rebounds better. Don't get me wrong, I love Dwight, and I think he's one of the best rebounders in the league, but the way JO has played this season, Dwight has a long way to go.

Anthem
01-25-2007, 09:22 PM
There's a difference between being physical and being a post-up player. Shaq-in-Orlando was physical, while Hakeem was a post-up player. What happened when they met in the finals?

Graham Mernatsi
01-25-2007, 09:33 PM
I can't wait for Graham to nail you for spelling traveshamockery wrong.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=traveshamockery
Urban Dictionary is hardly a definitive source.

:arrgh:

vapacersfan
01-25-2007, 09:38 PM
Urban Dictionary is hardly a definitive source.

:arrgh:

:banned:

Robertmto
01-25-2007, 10:17 PM
Well seeing as how the AllStar game is all about fun and ratings, hw about the fact that Howard is simply more fun to watch?

:devil:

Anthem
01-25-2007, 10:29 PM
quoting deleted post
Did you register just to post that?

RaptorsFan
01-25-2007, 10:33 PM
Did you register just to post that?I've been lurking for a while, but that post compelled me to finally register.

bulldog
01-25-2007, 10:38 PM
lmao @ Steve Nash not starting

Right now, the two leading MVP candidates are Nash and Dirk, and neither is starting.

Guessing Dirk gets moved into the starter spot and they play Timmy at "center."

Anthem
01-25-2007, 10:40 PM
I've been lurking for a while, but that post compelled me to finally register.
Fair enough. Agree that the "nimrod" thing was out of line, although I don't think Quis meant it like you took it.

When you said "Bosh got in on his own merit", though, I must admit I thought "Well, he's the only one!"

Naptown_Seth
01-26-2007, 02:57 AM
East

Shaq
Chris Bosh
LBJ
D Wade
Gilbert Arenas!!!!

West

Yao (won't play)
Tim Duncan
KG
T-Mac
Kobe

Howard
JO
Lebron
Wade
Arenas (because his offense has been really efficient and his team wins when he takes over like that.)

JO would be in over Howard IMO simply because the teams have played already and JO had great games vs Howard in the wins. JO is putting up 20/10 AND leading in blocks and probably close to leading in charges taken.

Probably the top 2 MVP candidates, MAJOR aspects of the 2 winningest teams (and teams running away from the pack even), and neither one gets voted in. Stupid.

Yao
Duncan
Dirk
Kobe
Nash

odeez
01-26-2007, 05:00 AM
ALL STAR voting is a joke. It is purely a popularity contest. JO without a doubt should start over BOSH. BOSH is good, but JO is better!

GO!!!!!
01-26-2007, 05:03 AM
Howard should be starting over shaq, no doubts about it....

and Starting Kobe and T-Mac in the back court.... ahhh what we thinking

JayRedd
01-26-2007, 10:28 AM
All Star voting is for the fans. People wanna see Bosh, let them see Bosh. And Shaq is gonna start til he retires. Frankly, I'm fine with that. I'd rather see Diesel acting a clown on the bench during an exhibition than watch half these guys do anything. He's always good for one attempt at a coast-to-coast. Generally entertaining.

JO, Howard, Nash and Dirk will all be there, so it's not a big deal. Nash said he doesn't even wanna really go anyway. I doubt he plays more than 15 minutes or so. DWade and Kobe can't be very eager to spend their days off playing basketball either.

Half the people who vote for this stuff don't really follow basketball anyway, they just vote for the players from their home town. The All-NBA Teams are the things that have lasting significance in my eyes.

Sollozzo
01-26-2007, 10:33 AM
Even worse is a soon-to-be 3-time MVP not getting the starting nod (Nash).

Fans are idiots.

Btw, where the hell did Arenas come from? Not that he doesn't deserve it, but he must have gotten a major rush of votes at the last minute.



Nash winning THREE MVP's in a row is just as big as a travesty.

RaptorsFan
01-26-2007, 10:42 AM
I'm wondering why my post was deleted, but Quis is free to colour all Canadians as "nimrods." I don't see how my post was anymore instigative than his. Seems like a bit of a double standard to me.

FlavaDave
01-26-2007, 10:55 AM
Chris Bosh got voted in because an entire country of NBA fans voted for him (Canada), just like Yao (China).

Hicks
01-26-2007, 11:08 AM
Nash winning THREE MVP's in a row is just as big as a travesty.

That mentality should not keep him from winning it this year (but it will). He's won it twice, and his numbers this year are BETTER THAN EVER. AND his team is neck-and-neck with Dallas for the best in the league. He deserves it now more than ever.

Anxiety
01-26-2007, 11:12 AM
J.O. should be starting over Bosh. He's the better player on the better team. Of course these are the same Canadians nimrods who got Vince Carter voted in over Michael Jordan, so what can you do?


Over washed up 3 times retired Michael Jordan, yes.

able
01-26-2007, 11:25 AM
I'm wondering why my post was deleted, but Quis is free to colour all Canadians as "nimrods." I don't see how my post was anymore instigative than his. Seems like a bit of a double standard to me.

Though I will be fair to see that I missed that part in Quis' post and go re-visit that, but I was more cought up in you using profanity in your post, something that is for a reason on most alike words "prohibited". making it into one word seem to have helped, it will be altered though.

And taken care of.

Fool
01-26-2007, 11:34 AM
I'd rather watch Arenas than Billups in the all-star game.

shags
01-26-2007, 11:44 AM
All Star voting is for the fans. People wanna see Bosh, let them see Bosh. And Shaq is gonna start til he retires. Frankly, I'm fine with that. I'd rather see Diesel acting a clown on the bench during an exhibition than watch half these guys do anything. He's always good for one attempt at a coast-to-coast. Generally entertaining.

JO, Howard, Nash and Dirk will all be there, so it's not a big deal. Nash said he doesn't even wanna really go anyway. I doubt he plays more than 15 minutes or so. DWade and Kobe can't be very eager to spend their days off playing basketball either.

Half the people who vote for this stuff don't really follow basketball anyway, they just vote for the players from their home town. The All-NBA Teams are the things that have lasting significance in my eyes.

I'm in the same boat you are. I think the fans should be voting for the starters. The only issues I see are when the fans vote someone in as a starter who wouldn't make the game otherwise (and there's one example this year, Shaq.)

Sollozzo
01-26-2007, 12:31 PM
That mentality should not keep him from winning it this year (but it will). He's won it twice, and his numbers this year are BETTER THAN EVER. AND his team is neck-and-neck with Dallas for the best in the league. He deserves it now more than ever.



No one deserves 3 straight MVP's. Hell, Jordan never got 3 straight MVPS (87, 91, 92, 96, 98).

Giving him 3 straight MVP's is basically a slap in the face to the other great players in the league. Is he that much better than everyone else where he deserves to win 3 straight MVP's?

05 I pick Shaq, last year I pick Kobe (I guess being the first to average 35 since MJ in 88 isn't good enough), this year I'd go with Arenas or Wade so far.

I'd concede one of those to him, but 3? That's ridiculous. Giving him 3 in a row is basically saying that he is at a superior level to the other elite players in the league. He is not. That's a slap in the face to guys like Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, etc, guys who have busted their a**es for the last few years, but have never won the award.

Hell, the Mavs got to the finals 2 years after he left with Jason Terry at the PG.

RaptorsFan
01-26-2007, 12:56 PM
Though I will be fair to see that I missed that part in Quis' post and go re-visit that, but I was more cought up in you using profanity in your post, something that is for a reason on most alike words "prohibited". making it into one word seem to have helped, it will be altered though.

And taken care of.

What profanity did I use? I quite honestly don't recall using any profanities at all in that post. If I did, I apologize, and would request that you put my post back up and edit out the word in question like you did for Quis, so people like FlavaDave can see the point I was trying to make in the post and reconsider their misguided views.

JayRedd
01-26-2007, 01:19 PM
Over washed up 3 times retired Michael Jordan, yes.

But even if he wasn't one of the best 5-7 guards in the League that year, the fans wanted to watch MJ and he responded with one of the more memorable All Star games in recent memory.

I dunno, I just see it as entertainment more than an honor.

If you really want to be recogonized for your achievements, prove you're one of the Top 15 players in the League and get yourself voted onto the All-NBA squad.

Robertmto
01-26-2007, 01:54 PM
If you really want to be recogonized for your achievements, prove you're one of the Top 15 players in the League and get yourself voted onto the All-NBA squad.

So Nash and Dirk arent top 10 players in the league then?

And TMac, Shaq and Bosh are top 15?

JayRedd
01-26-2007, 02:16 PM
So Nash and Dirk arent top 10 players in the league then?

And TMac, Shaq and Bosh are top 15?

No...Nash and Dirk are of course. And they will both be 1st Team All-NBA guys.

That was my point, there's a big difference between being All-NBA and being an All-Star. To me, one is an honor for an achievement, the other is a popularity contest. One is about your legacy/historic standing in this League, the other is about entertainment.

The quintessential example here is always Vince. Check his page (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/cartevi01.html) on basketball-reference. Counting this year, he's an 8-time All Star...but as far as All NBA teams, he doesn't even have as many as Mitch Richmond (5 All-NBA teams, 6 All-Star games) Chris Mullin (4 All-NBA teams, 4 All Star games), Mark Price (4 All-NBA teams, 4 All Star games) Jermaine O'Neal (3 All-NBA teams, 5 All Star games) or even Penny Hardaway (3 All-NBA teams, 4 All-Star games).


And while I'm certain VC will make more All Star game rosters, I highly doubt he'll ever make another All-NBA team. And I'm fine with that. Because even though Vince Carter is by no means historically great, he is unequivocally historically entertaining.

FlavaDave
01-26-2007, 02:30 PM
What profanity did I use? I quite honestly don't recall using any profanities at all in that post. If I did, I apologize, and would request that you put my post back up and edit out the word in question like you did for Quis, so people like FlavaDave can see the point I was trying to make in the post and reconsider their misguided views.


So you think that fans voting in non-Toronto Canada ignored the fact that Chris Bosh was playing on a Canadian team when voting? Or do you think that there aren't NBA fans in Canada outside of Toronto?

Do you agree that Yao & TMac get more votes than they otherwise would because of China?

RaptorsFan
01-26-2007, 03:32 PM
So you think that fans voting in non-Toronto Canada ignored the fact that Chris Bosh was playing on a Canadian team when voting? Or do you think that there aren't NBA fans in Canada outside of Toronto?

Do you agree that Yao & TMac get more votes than they otherwise would because of China?
Yao and T-Mac and Chris Bosh are totally different scenarios. The Yao and T-Mac thing is obvious because guys like Shane Battier and David Wesley finish near the top as well. As for your view on Canadians voting for Bosh. Why is TJ Ford is nowhere to be seen? He has so few votes he doesn't even show up on the voting results. Same for Morris Peterson. Steve Nash couldn't even crack the top 3 in the West with his Canadian support. You'd think the Canadians that you claim vote en masse for Bosh would be voting for these players too.

You definitely overstate Canada's view on Bosh too. 80% of Canadians probably have no idea who he is. 90% probably couldn't pick him out of a police lineup. He certainly is not held in the same regard in Canada as Yao is in China. Outside of Toronto, where Bosh is immensely popular, as any star basketball player is in his home city would be, he's relatively anonymous.

I would love it if you could produce any evidence whatsoever to back up your claims of voting irregularites coming from Canada, because I'm certainly not seeing it. Saying all the Canadians voted for Bosh is an obvious statement, that doesn't really mean anything. It's like saying all fans from Indiana voted for O'Neal. Of course they did. Heck, I could make a stronger argument that fans from Indiana inflated O'Neal's numbers since basketball is held in high regard in Indiana, whereas in Canada basketball is still viewed as a niche sport. Obviously such an argument is completely ludicrous, but I hope you're beginning to see my point.

Young
01-26-2007, 04:06 PM
No one deserves 3 straight MVP's. Hell, Jordan never got 3 straight MVPS (87, 91, 92, 96, 98).

Giving him 3 straight MVP's is basically a slap in the face to the other great players in the league. Is he that much better than everyone else where he deserves to win 3 straight MVP's?

05 I pick Shaq, last year I pick Kobe (I guess being the first to average 35 since MJ in 88 isn't good enough), this year I'd go with Arenas or Wade so far.

I'd concede one of those to him, but 3? That's ridiculous. Giving him 3 in a row is basically saying that he is at a superior level to the other elite players in the league. He is not. That's a slap in the face to guys like Lebron, Dirk, Kobe, etc, guys who have busted their a**es for the last few years, but have never won the award.

Hell, the Mavs got to the finals 2 years after he left with Jason Terry at the PG.

So there is a limit to how many MVPs you can win now?

The MVP is about who is the most valuable player. Not the most superior player. Nash is the MVP this year, again, for the third time in a row. 2 years ago doesn't matter, last year doesn't matter. Only this year matters.

You mention the Mavs getting to the Finals two years after Nash left. Did they get there because Nash left? Also, did you know that the year before Nash arrived in Phoenix they were 29-53. With Nash in town they were 54-28 in his first year in town and 62-20 the following year.

I just don't see how anyone can discount what Nash has done this year just because he has won 2 other MVPs. What matters is this year. Sorry that Lebron, or Shaq, or Wade, or Kobe haven't been MVPs 2-3 times. That doesn't mean that Nash can't. I know the media doesn't hype up Nash like they do Kobe, Lebron, and the others but that doesn't mean Nash isn't the MVP this year.

To me, saying that Nash shouldn't win a third MVP in a row because he has already won it two other times is like saying that you don't like the New England Patrioits because they have won 3 Superbowls. Everyone wants to see greatness but then when it is there they get sick of it quickly.

FlavaDave
01-26-2007, 04:11 PM
Yao and T-Mac and Chris Bosh are totally different scenarios. The Yao and T-Mac thing is obvious because guys like Shane Battier and David Wesley finish near the top as well. As for your view on Canadians voting for Bosh. Why is TJ Ford is nowhere to be seen? He has so few votes he doesn't even show up on the voting results. Same for Morris Peterson. Steve Nash couldn't even crack the top 3 in the West with his Canadian support. You'd think the Canadians that you claim vote en masse for Bosh would be voting for these players too.

You definitely overstate Canada's view on Bosh too. 80% of Canadians probably have no idea who he is. 90% probably couldn't pick him out of a police lineup. He certainly is not held in the same regard in Canada as Yao is in China. Outside of Toronto, where Bosh is immensely popular, as any star basketball player is in his home city would be, he's relatively anonymous.

I would love it if you could produce any evidence whatsoever to back up your claims of voting irregularites coming from Canada, because I'm certainly not seeing it. Saying all the Canadians voted for Bosh is an obvious statement, that doesn't really mean anything. It's like saying all fans from Indiana voted for O'Neal. Of course they did. Heck, I could make a stronger argument that fans from Indiana inflated O'Neal's numbers since basketball is held in high regard in Indiana, whereas in Canada basketball is still viewed as a niche sport. Obviously such an argument is completely ludicrous, but I hope you're beginning to see my point.


I see your point. It is true that I can't produce hard evidence since they don't break down the voting.

Obviously, basketball fans who vote for the All-Stat game are biased by their "local" players. You said yourself that Rocket players get a huge boost. I would claim that Toronto gets a decent boost, while Indiana gets no boost. And that just happens to match up with the populations of those areas in relation to the average team's fan base.

"Saying all the Canadians voted for Bosh is an obvious statement, that doesn't really mean anything. It's like saying all fans from Indiana voted for O'Neal. Of course they did."

It does mean something, because there are 33 million people in Canada and 6 million in Indiana.

I would break down my thoughts further, but I have to work for now. If anyone can step in here, that would be cool.

I will say that Chris Bosh is in the ballpark of the elite forwards in the East, and he deserves it about as much as the other 3-4 guys who could have been in that slot. I also don't think the extensive Canada fan base is the entire reason he got voted in.

Sollozzo
01-26-2007, 06:21 PM
So there is a limit to how many MVPs you can win now?

The MVP is about who is the most valuable player. Not the most superior player. Nash is the MVP this year, again, for the third time in a row. 2 years ago doesn't matter, last year doesn't matter. Only this year matters.

You mention the Mavs getting to the Finals two years after Nash left. Did they get there because Nash left? Also, did you know that the year before Nash arrived in Phoenix they were 29-53. With Nash in town they were 54-28 in his first year in town and 62-20 the following year.

I just don't see how anyone can discount what Nash has done this year just because he has won 2 other MVPs. What matters is this year. Sorry that Lebron, or Shaq, or Wade, or Kobe haven't been MVPs 2-3 times. That doesn't mean that Nash can't. I know the media doesn't hype up Nash like they do Kobe, Lebron, and the others but that doesn't mean Nash isn't the MVP this year.

To me, saying that Nash shouldn't win a third MVP in a row because he has already won it two other times is like saying that you don't like the New England Patrioits because they have won 3 Superbowls. Everyone wants to see greatness but then when it is there they get sick of it quickly.


Giving Nash 3 straight MVP's is saying that he is at a superior level to everyone else in the league.

He isn't.

Why does Nash deserve the award more than Arenas? Arenas does just as much for the Wiz as Nash does. The Wiz would be terrible without him.

Why does Nash deserve the award more than Wade? Wade has kept the Heat alive, and they will probably end up making the playoffs because he kept the team in contention. Wade keeping an awful team alive is much more impressive than what Nash has done this year.

Jordan could have technically been the MVP every year. But the voters atleast acknowledged a couple years in which other guys in the league were the soul behind their teams as well, such as Barkley in 93, or the Mailman in 97.

3 straight MVP's? That's a joke.

Young
01-26-2007, 06:47 PM
Giving Nash 3 straight MVP's is saying that he is at a superior level to everyone else in the league.

He isn't.

Why does Nash deserve the award more than Arenas? Arenas does just as much for the Wiz as Nash does. The Wiz would be terrible without him.

Why does Nash deserve the award more than Wade? Wade has kept the Heat alive, and they will probably end up making the playoffs because he kept the team in contention. Wade keeping an awful team alive is much more impressive than what Nash has done this year.

Jordan could have technically been the MVP every year. But the voters atleast acknowledged a couple years in which other guys in the league were the soul behind their teams as well, such as Barkley in 93, or the Mailman in 97.

3 straight MVP's? That's a joke.

Nash over Arenas because Nash is on the better team, sure he plays with better players so yes that is part of it, but Nash just makes everyone around him so much better. Who was Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, and Leandaro Barbosa before they played with Steve Nash? You mention Arenas and Wade being key parts of their teams which they are but Nash is the key piece to the Suns. Can you imagne the Suns without Nash even if they had say Jason Terry or Chauncey Billups or even Jason Kidd? I can't. I could see the Heat or Wizarads as good as they are if Arenas or Wade are replaced. Those guys create shots for themselves yes but they don't create shots for others the same way Nash does. I think there are a lot of scorers like Wade and Arenas, maybe not quite as good but close, there is only one guy like Steve Nash.

To me, Nash is dominating offenseively as a guard like Shaqiule did when he was first with the Lakers. That's JMO though.

I still don't understand what MJ did/didn't win has anything to do with what Nash deserves to win. If MJ had won the MVP those years I don't get how anyone could argue. It would be stupid to say a guy can't win just because he has won it before. Just like I still don't get why Nash winning the MVP for a third straight year would be an insult to Kobe or Lebron or Wade. Is it because he can't dunk or isn't an athletic freak? Or is it because he is one of the shorter guys on the court? I just don't understand why Nash is any less of a player than those guys. Nash has proven he was a good player in Dallas, an All-Star, but now in Phoenix he is an MVP and is a franchise player. That's right. Some might laugh and argue but the games speak for themselves.

Will Galen
01-26-2007, 06:55 PM
ALL STAR voting is a joke. It is purely a popularity contest. JO without a doubt should start over BOSH. BOSH is good, but JO is better!

It's not a joke because it is a popularity contest. The NBA has said it's a game for the fans, thus the fans pick who they want to watch.

Yesterday I read John Hollinger's all star picks on ESPN and he said this;

Before we get started let me explain my criteria. A player's accomplishments this season are the biggest factor, obviously, but not the only one. I'll take a player with a consistent track record of excellence over one who appears to be playing over his head, other things being equal. And I'm inclined to cut injured players some slack, provided their injuries are not part of a larger pattern.

I posted that to say this. Everyone has their own criteria for picking all stars. Me? I used to pick who I thought was most deserving, but year in and year out the public always voted the same players in. After it sank in that it really was just a game for the fans AND a popularity contest, I calmed down. This year I voted for Pacer's or x-Pacers because I KNOW it's a popularity contest.

It really has nothing to do with who is best or playing well. Just like in elections the man in the street votes for the best known names.

quiller
01-26-2007, 10:44 PM
Well lets just hope the alstar snub will encourage JO to show Bosh that he is the premier power foward in the east......:D

SamBear
01-27-2007, 01:02 AM
Tim Duncan-9th time

The Spurs star will be a starting forward for the Western Conference squad.This will be Tim's ninth All-Star game and he has appeared in every game since he entered the NBA.

:)

sweabs
01-27-2007, 02:53 AM
Yao and T-Mac and Chris Bosh are totally different scenarios. The Yao and T-Mac thing is obvious because guys like Shane Battier and David Wesley finish near the top as well. As for your view on Canadians voting for Bosh. Why is TJ Ford is nowhere to be seen? He has so few votes he doesn't even show up on the voting results. Same for Morris Peterson. Steve Nash couldn't even crack the top 3 in the West with his Canadian support. You'd think the Canadians that you claim vote en masse for Bosh would be voting for these players too.

You definitely overstate Canada's view on Bosh too. 80% of Canadians probably have no idea who he is. 90% probably couldn't pick him out of a police lineup. He certainly is not held in the same regard in Canada as Yao is in China. Outside of Toronto, where Bosh is immensely popular, as any star basketball player is in his home city would be, he's relatively anonymous.

I would love it if you could produce any evidence whatsoever to back up your claims of voting irregularites coming from Canada, because I'm certainly not seeing it. Saying all the Canadians voted for Bosh is an obvious statement, that doesn't really mean anything. It's like saying all fans from Indiana voted for O'Neal. Of course they did. Heck, I could make a stronger argument that fans from Indiana inflated O'Neal's numbers since basketball is held in high regard in Indiana, whereas in Canada basketball is still viewed as a niche sport. Obviously such an argument is completely ludicrous, but I hope you're beginning to see my point.
Wow - I've got to disagree with you on most of your points.

Pitons
01-27-2007, 10:18 AM
Tim Duncan-9th time

The Spurs star will be a starting forward for the Western Conference squad.This will be Tim's ninth All-Star game and he has appeared in every game since he entered the NBA.

:)

Maybe I'm wrong, but this is 10th season Tim is playing in NBA.

RaptorsFan
01-27-2007, 01:04 PM
Wow - I've got to disagree with you on most of your points.Care to elaborate?

sweabs
01-27-2007, 01:24 PM
Care to elaborate?

80% of Canadians probably have no idea who he is.
No way. If you have the stats to prove this, then by all means go ahead and post them. But I have a tough time believing this. In fact, I'd go as far as to say the two most respected basketball names in Canada are Steve Nash and Chris Bosh.

Outside of Toronto, where Bosh is immensely popular, as any star basketball player is in his home city would be, he's relatively anonymous.
Not true, once again. You do know the real reasons behind why Colangelo decided to switch the teams' colours and uniforms, right? It's not just because they look way better - he is marketing the club to all of Canada. The red and white is supposed to appeal to the entire country. Games can be seen all across the nation (that's why Chuck is making call-outs to the folks out in BC and PEI).

This is Canada's team, and for those who pay any attention to basketball (which is more than you make it out to be), know who Chris Bosh is. You make the broad generalization that no one outside of Toronto even knows who he is. As I have said, people outside the province of Ontario have an idea no doubt - but outside only Toronto? Are you joking? So I guess all those Chris Bosh jerseys I see in London are a result of my deteriorating vision. Or Niagara region (where I currently reside), or many other cities throughout Ontario for that matter.

...whereas in Canada basketball is still viewed as a niche sport.
Not sure if you're being serious here, as you follow it up by saying "Obviously such an argument is completely ludicrous". I'm not sure if you're referring to the former or latter part of that sentence. Either way, "niche" sport it is not. Basketball's popularity continues to grow in Canada and players like Steve Nash and Chris Bosh are doing tons to help on the issue.

P.S. - Always a pleasure talkin' Raptors ball.

RaptorsFan
01-27-2007, 03:27 PM
No way. If you have the stats to prove this, then by all means go ahead and post them. But I have a tough time believing this. In fact, I'd go as far as to say the two most respected basketball names in Canada are Steve Nash and Chris Bosh.


Most respected maybe. Most recognizable, I think Steve Nash, Shaq, Michael Jordan and Vince Carter are just 4 of the many names that are far more recognizable to the average Canadian (not average Canadian basketball fan, but average Canadian). Larry Bird, Magic Johnson would probably also be considered bigger names. Basketball is practically not on the radar at all amongst the baby boomer demographic that makes up a massive chunk of the Canadian population. The proportion of the population that is into basketball in Canada, is the younger generation that was captivated by Vince Carter. I don't have quanitative data off hand, but I encourage you to find 10 random people off the street (not just random people that you know) and ask them if they know who Chris Bosh is or if they know who Steve Nash is. I bet you'd be surprised by the results. And as you move further and further away from the GTA, I'm sure you'll find that the recognizability of Bosh deteriorates significantly. Steve Nash is by far a more household name than Bosh in Canada. Nash has had far more publicity outside of Southern Ontario and is far more visible on TV and the like. Personally, speaking from my personal experiences as a Raptors fan in Saskatchewan, it's absolutely unheard of to see somebody walking around with a Chris Bosh jersey, but not so uncommon to see somebody walking around with a Steve Nash jersey.



Not true, once again. You do know the real reasons behind why Colangelo decided to switch the teams' colours and uniforms, right? It's not just because they look way better - he is marketing the club to all of Canada. The red and white is supposed to appeal to the entire country. Games can be seen all across the nation (that's why Chuck is making call-outs to the folks out in BC and PEI).
Do you honestly think that just because Colangelo has changed the uniforms and made games more accessible to Canada, thousands of people instantly became Raptors fans and bought Chris Bosh jerseys and logged onto NBA.com to vote Bosh into the all-star game? This kind of thing doesn't happen overnight. The affects of these changes probably won't be apparent until a few years down the road. Just because Colangelo wants to make them Canada's team, doesn't mean they have become Canada's team instantly.


This is Canada's team, and for those who pay any attention to basketball (which is more than you make it out to be), know who Chris Bosh is. You make the broad generalization that no one outside of Toronto even knows who he is. As I have said, people outside the province of Ontario have an idea no doubt - but outside only Toronto? Are you joking? So I guess all those Chris Bosh jerseys I see in London are a result of my deteriorating vision. Or Niagara region (where I currently reside), or many other cities throughout Ontario for that matter.

I didn't say he was completely anonymous, just relatively anonymous. Maybe I should've rephrased that as Southern Ontario, I don't know. Admittedly, I'm not too familiar with the geography and demographics of Southern Ontario. Nevertheless, I'm willing to bet he's far less popular than you make him out to be. I think a lot of what you're saying may be being skewed because you associate with a lot of basketball fans, who generally know who Bosh is.


Not sure if you're being serious here, as you follow it up by saying "Obviously such an argument is completely ludicrous". I'm not sure if you're referring to the former or latter part of that sentence. Either way, "niche" sport it is not. Basketball's popularity continues to grow in Canada and players like Steve Nash and Chris Bosh are doing tons to help on the issue.

Obviously you haven't taken the time to observe this trend in Canada outside of Southern Ontario. Out here in the West, Bosh is nearly a non-entity. Nash is far more popular in the West, but even then, he's barely visible too. Out here, hockey is obviously #1, with football coming in at #2, and baseball and basketball fighting for a distant third.