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Hicks
01-25-2007, 05:59 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2742835&campaign=rss&source=NBAHeadlines



Flopping is already illegal in international play. Now, it might become illegal in the NBA, as well.


The NBA is studying how often flopping occurs and whether officials can tell the difference between flops and actual fouls, Stu Jackson, the NBA's executive vice president for basketball operations, told Bloomberg News in a story published Thursday.


"They're really difficult to determine in real time. They're meant to fool an official," Jackson said. "Are we going to be wrong more times than not? It's tough, but we're looking at it."


Jackson said the NBA is considering whether to allow its officials to impose technical fouls for flopping, which FIBA, the governing body of international basketball, allows its referees to do. Other sports, such as hockey and soccer, also allow referees to penalize players who flop.


"We have so many more plays than you do in a football or soccer game and in a more intimate environment," he said.
Jackson didn't give a timetable for the league to make a decision.

I know a certain former Pacer made a living off of it (and other things), but I think they should come down on flopping if possible. I like the FIBA rule: Don't give them a reason to even think you're flopping.

NuffSaid
01-25-2007, 06:16 PM
Another issue on fouling I wished the league would look into are those fouls along the perimeter where the offensive player "jumps" into the defender. Since the player on offense initiates the contact, it should be a call against him IMO, not the defender.


I know a certain former Pacer made a living off of it (and other things), but I think they should come down on flopping if possible. I like the FIBA rule: Don't give them a reason to even think you're flopping.

Not to mention that leg-kickout trick he made so famous a few other players started using it (i.e., Rip Hamilton and I've even seen T-Mac go there once or twice.)

JayRedd
01-25-2007, 06:20 PM
Another issue on fouling I wished the league would look into are those fouls along the perimeter where the offensive player "jumps" into the defender. Since the player on offense initiates the contact, it should be a call against him IMO, not the defender.

As long as this isn't retroactive, I'm with you on it. ;)

The charge taking too. Some refs are worse than Dick Vitale are judging these.

Roferr
01-25-2007, 06:48 PM
I don't think flopping is nearly as prevalent the past couple of seasons as it has been for years. However, it is still there and warrants looking into.

Also, I'm with Nuffsaid about the jumping into a defender. A player has the rule of vertically behind him. When a shooter gets a player to go straight up or is actually moving away from the shooter, and the shooter jumps into the defender, it should not be a foul. This call is normally reserved for the stars. It really gripes me when they jump into a defender and wildly throw a shot up to get a trip to the line. It's obvious and the refs should be reminded by Stu that crap has to stop.

Mac_Daddy
01-25-2007, 06:52 PM
Another issue on fouling I wished the league would look into are those fouls along the perimeter where the offensive player "jumps" into the defender. Since the player on offense initiates the contact, it should be a call against him IMO, not the defender.



Not to mention that leg-kickout trick he made so famous a few other players started using it (i.e., Rip Hamilton and I've even seen T-Mac go there once or twice.)

Didn't the refs actually start calling fouls on reggie with the kickout? I remember seeing it a few times against the Pistons in the playoffs and then I'd see Rip do the same thing and not be called on it.

8.9_seconds
01-25-2007, 07:27 PM
I've said it, and I'll say it again, flopping is an art. 70% of charges are flops. It's all a part of the game.

and I swear I am not saying this just because of a certain former Pacer.

stew
01-25-2007, 08:14 PM
Another issue on fouling I wished the league would look into are those fouls along the perimeter where the offensive player "jumps" into the defender. Since the player on offense initiates the contact, it should be a call against him IMO, not the defender.



Not to mention that leg-kickout trick he made so famous a few other players started using it (i.e., Rip Hamilton and I've even seen T-Mac go there once or twice.)

so what your saying is, if defender jumps into the air, the offensive player should wait for him to come down before taking the jump shot?

Shade
01-25-2007, 08:27 PM
It's about damn time.

rabid
01-25-2007, 08:48 PM
so what your saying is, if defender jumps into the air, the offensive player should wait for him to come down before taking the jump shot?

No, but if the defender jumps straight in the air, and the shooter jumps forward (from a standing position) just to initiate contact and draw a foul, then actually that should be an OFFENSIVE foul.

Reggie was famous for getting calls for that, partially because of his odd shooting stroke (sticking his elbows out in front of him).

But I saw Reggie get called for the offensive foul sometimes as well in that situation.

Naptown_Seth
01-26-2007, 01:03 PM
Um, there is some irony here that the reason FIBA has to have a rule is because it is so rampant in international play. It didn't take off till Euro players like Divac came over and started going nuts with it.

It's not like the World Championships looked flop-free, and I'm talking about watching games not involving the US team.

In other words, GFL fixing this problem. Not gonna happen. Too vague, too difficult to be certain. Refs try to fix it already by making non-calls on what appear to be flops.

Try to take a charge with a flop and you get the blocking call every time, at least if its obvious enough to warrant a tech by some new rule. As others mentioned, Reggie started having a tougher time getting the leg-kick call for a similar reason.

This is a non-story to me, at least in terms of foreseeable results.

Since86
01-26-2007, 01:21 PM
I thought there was rule in place in the NBA about rule of verticality, because of Reggie.

An offensive player can't jump to the side to make contact, but he can jump forward. It happened in the Bulls game, right in front of the Pacer bench and RC went nuts because they called the foul, I think, on DA instead of Gordon.

RWB
01-26-2007, 01:47 PM
What's next, will they blow a whistle on a guy who hollers out on a foul?

Since86
01-26-2007, 01:52 PM
To add to the discussion, the IHSAA has a rule of emphasize since the 03-04 season that flopping when taking a charge is an automatic technical foul.

I've never seen it called, eventhough I would have liked to have some Ts give out during our regional game that first year, but that's another story.

When put in place they said it was to prevent injuries BTW.

Fool
01-26-2007, 02:04 PM
What's next, will they blow a whistle on a guy who hollers out on a foul?

Rasheed has already gotten T's for just that.

FlavaDave
01-26-2007, 03:00 PM
This is impossible to inforce. A rule like this will only make it worse.

Right now, people only get pissed when a player flops and gets the call. This rule would help a bit a first, but then we have the problem of players getting "caught" when they weren't flopping at all. So the refs back off a bit and only call the foul when it's really obvious. But then the home team gets pissed when they feel a call is obviously a flop but the ref thought it was too close to call. Then the crowd boos. The ref thinks "I need to loosen my definition". So then the home team sort-of flops and the ref calls it. Now the crowd is really booing. So now he's calling everything. The road team commits a contact foul and they call it a flop. The opposing coach is livid and gets a tech. Now the road team just got a normal foul, an extra shot for the flop, and a tech, and everyone thinks the game is fixed............


No thanks. Let's continue to have the refs swallow the whistle whenever they can if they see a flop, and let's continue to credit successful flops on veteran savy.

Hicks
01-26-2007, 03:06 PM
I thought there was rule in place in the NBA about rule of verticality, because of Reggie.

An offensive player can't jump to the side to make contact, but he can jump forward. It happened in the Bulls game, right in front of the Pacer bench and RC went nuts because they called the foul, I think, on DA instead of Gordon.

If I'm reading correctly, that means if the defender jumps straight up, and his man jumps forward into the defender, they call the foul on the defender? I don't like that at all.

#31
01-26-2007, 03:12 PM
This is impossible to inforce. A rule like this will only make it worse.

Right now, people only get pissed when a player flops and gets the call. This rule would help a bit a first, but then we have the problem of players getting "caught" when they weren't flopping at all. So the refs back off a bit and only call the foul when it's really obvious. But then the home team gets pissed when they feel a call is obviously a flop but the ref thought it was too close to call. Then the crowd boos. The ref thinks "I need to loosen my definition". So then the home team sort-of flops and the ref calls it. Now the crowd is really booing. So now he's calling everything. The road team commits a contact foul and they call it a flop. The opposing coach is livid and gets a tech. Now the road team just got a normal foul, an extra shot for the flop, and a tech, and everyone thinks the game is fixed............


No thanks. Let's continue to have the refs swallow the whistle whenever they can if they see a flop, and let's continue to credit successful flops on veteran savy.

WORD!

v_d_g
01-26-2007, 04:06 PM
The entire system is a joke. You have 3 REF and REPLAYS (at your disposal)

YET

there are players out there making a living by intentionally getting in the path of those going to the basket ---GEE that's a skill I'd really like to have; I'm not athletic enough to actually GUARD anyone so why don't I just get in his way and make myself useful.

The most pathetic PLAY/PLAYER out there has to be Malik ROSE. He's got the patented play where he is pushing up against the offensive player and suddenly backs up, thereby giving up resistance and causing the offensive player to lose his balance and fall on his ***. Or so it seems. I mean some of the NBA players reek of UNATHLETICISM yet we expect a bit more from them in this case.

In actuality, while ROSE is backing up he ALSO grabs hold of the offensive player's jersey and pulls him down -- he did this to JO the other night.

Now, If I know about this, the league must certainly know about it as well. And, at some point, the CLUELESS refs are privy to it also. Thus, we are left wondering why the league allows PUNK PLAY. Guess THE DICTATOR has bigger fish to fry, what with the dresscode, the fines, and the replaced BBALL fiasco.

Then again, this is not really the place for this, as the MIDWEST is the HOME of the CHARGE.

8.9_seconds
01-27-2007, 06:44 PM
The entire system is a joke. You have 3 REF and REPLAYS (at your disposal)

YET

there are players out there making a living by intentionally getting in the path of those going to the basket ---GEE that's a skill I'd really like to have; I'm not athletic enough to actually GUARD anyone so why don't I just get in his way and make myself useful.

The most pathetic PLAY/PLAYER out there has to be Malik ROSE. He's got the patented play where he is pushing up against the offensive player and suddenly backs up, thereby giving up resistance and causing the offensive player to lose his balance and fall on his ***. Or so it seems. I mean some of the NBA players reek of UNATHLETICISM yet we expect a bit more from them in this case.

In actuality, while ROSE is backing up he ALSO grabs hold of the offensive player's jersey and pulls him down -- he did this to JO the other night.

Now, If I know about this, the league must certainly know about it as well. And, at some point, the CLUELESS refs are privy to it also. Thus, we are left wondering why the league allows PUNK PLAY. Guess THE DICTATOR has bigger fish to fry, what with the dresscode, the fines, and the replaced BBALL fiasco.

Then again, this is not really the place for this, as the MIDWEST is the HOME of the CHARGE.


Pulling the chair out from under someone is not such a travesty, it's apart of the game. If an offensive player is relying on the defense to create their post up, it sends a message.

I agree jersey pulling is absolutely sickening though, I hate that S***.