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View Full Version : Odd thoughts from my first full game in the sun....



Peck
01-21-2007, 05:04 AM
Let me start off by saying that Eddy Curry's game both amazed me & offended me at the same exact time.

The guy is just literally a full fledged bulldozer in the blocks, not to mention when the refs. let the guy litterally push off & call the foul on the opponet but that is for another time. Let's face it we have nobody who can body up to the man & even pretend to stop him or even slow him down, I'm not sure very many teams do have a player that can do that.

On the other hand how the hell can you be 6'11" tall 300lbs & not grab more than one rebound even accidently? He has zero rebounds the entire d@mn game until the last part of the 4th when he tips in his first offensive rebound of the game. Of course we lose by two, go figure.

His defense is abysmal & the fact that he doesn't grab 12 rpg offends me like no other but I'll give him this, on offense he is a low post beast.

Also why, oh God why, does Q.Richardson always have to kill us? Did he miss? Even on shots that didn't count he was draining three's on us. I won't be able to sleep because all I am going to see it him shooting over & over & over again.

Now to us.

Well, I don't know how he managed to do it & of course I litterally had just told the diamond one that the one thing I loved about this trade was that Rick would not be able to do this anymore but I'll be danged if he didn't find a way to play small.

Honest to God, we trade for three players who are all above 6'8" tall & he still finds a way to play D. Armstrong, J. Tinsley, Dunleavy, Granger & O'Neal.:soundoff:

Frye has fouled out, Curry is in foul trouble so by all means let's not attack the middle.:scream:

I just don't get it. What is his hatred for big men? I know both Foster & Murphy had five fouls but for all purposes Jeff fouled out with 5 tonight & for the most part so did Murphy.

You mean Baston couldn't have gotten a min. or two in the 4th? Or how about Williams? Anyone?

Well, while I'm hitting on some negatives let me go ahead & get this out of the way right up front. I saw way to much of Mel Mel the abuser for my taste. At one point in time in the middle of the fourth I litterally expected the guy with the mic to get on the court with the team & start telling us about Starberry & Mel Mel. Cause for a short period it looked like Rucker park to me.

I bet we can count under 20 times the entire second half that Jamaal passed to somebody other than J.O. or himself. I know the offense will take a few games to get rolling but man I just wish he would move the ball around a little more.

Ok, that's it. No more :grumble: on my part from this game. It's nothing but love from here on out so if you want some bitterness you will be dissapointed.

Right off the bat I knew I was going to like Dunleavy. While I never was a Jackson basher like some, the one thing that Mike did right away that Jax wasn't always great at was move without the ball. The N.Y. defenders had to chase him all over the floor. Now he was nothing like Reggie, but because he was moving without the ball his defender had to focus on him & not be able to play the passing lanes or hedge back on J.O.

He always seemed to be in there trying to get boards although I don't think he grabbed all that many, but he was there. Once his shots started dropping he changed the game. His defense was just ok. It was not nearly as henous as I was told to expect but let's be honest he won't ever be accused of being Bruce Bowen on defense. I just wish the team had a better defensive coach to help with the overall team defense.

Two thumbs up for Dun.

Troy Murphy had me going from excited to dreading reading what Uncle Buck would say to standing & cheering all in the matter of one night.

I was excited to see him get in the game. Then he comes in & procedes to get burned on three straight plays by David Lee which of course had me wanting to :1outtaher from here on the forum because I could just imagine U.B. salivating at his computer writing knife like cuts to my jugular about how Jeff Foster would have stopped that. Of course this was causing me to :panic: . But then after he settled down & got comfortable with the game he then proceded to just tear up the N.Y. team on the boards. He was grabbing all kinds of boards too, which I was very pleased with. He got tough manly boards, he got swooping Camby like boards & he even got a couple of the loose ball boards that Foster used to get all of the time. But none were bigger than his pickup of his own missed freethrow.

Ok, Reggie did what 8 points in 16 seconds? Well how about Murphys 5 points in 2 seconds?

Did you even see the dream shake he pulled off? He & Foster will be a very good combo to have. If we need a stop then Jeff will be better for it & when we need offense Troy will be better for it.

Both are good rebounders, which is nice to be able to say.

Also I saw him set a proper pick on the wing during the first half. I was confused because I hadn't seen one of those in two years but I enjoyed it once I remembered what it was.

Two huge thumbs up to Murphy on game one.

Ike didn't do much in his time on the floor but he got the one single standing ovation out of me all night long. The one rebound he got was so manly that I litterly lept from my seat to applaud. The only thing missing from this was the beast like growl that could have accompanied this.

He didn't play great D, I'm not even sure he got up a shot, he had the chair pulled on him (badly I might add by M.Rose) but damn if we can bottle up that rebound & get some more then I will be one very happy person.

Two big thumbs up for the rebound. Other than that I'll just say that he is going to take some time.

I thought Danny Granger was going to tackle Anthony for the ppg leader for the season the way he was going in the first half. I don't know what the heck happened in the second half? I'd be curious to see how many shots he got up in the third quarter? He looked like an all world player for a time but then proceded to go away in the second half.

Also I am not thrilled with 1 rebound. No darkness though, just a point of referance that is all. His defense was ok, not stellar, but overall he had a great first half & a less than stellar second half.

J.O. two big giant thumbs up for the man in the middle. I like the way he played. He was aggresive & he communicated with his team mates very well on the floor. Which btw, was kind of new for him or at least it looked differant to me. J.O. was calling out the defensive spots in the second half which I hadn't seen him do before, but maybe he always has & I just haven't noticed it?:shrug: But he was in there on the boards & he seemed perfectly fine with the way the shots were going.

So in game one of our new relationship I will give him applause & say that I enjoyed watching him play.

Williams, Green, Daniels, Armstrong, Foster & Baston all played fairly well. Jeff got in early foul trouble but he just can not match up to Curry. Other than Harrison there is no one on our team who physically can match up to him & with Harrison there is no way mentally he could. So against Eddy we are pretty much screwed.

Baston sadly will be the odd man out in the new lineup. It's a shame in a way because the guy was playing very well & he is a pro about it. But I just don't see how we can not play Ike or Shawne at this point in time. As bad as I'd hate to see Baston go for his sake maybe he would be better off in another lineup.

Other than Rick's small ball, which I still cannot believe he found a way to do & Jamaals pounding of the ball I was pleased with the game.

Just like any other team that starts, this one is going to take 20 games to determine if it's going to work or not. By then we will either be gearing up for a final push to end the season strong or we will be staggering into the playoffs.

My first thought on this is that by about a month from now we will be a better team, but time will tell.

So let us all join together in ushering forth the fruit & friends for the dance.

:mango: :cucumber: :pineapple :rock: :bdance: :dance3: :woot: :yay: :fireworks :bgroovy: :dancingsager:

Pingu
01-21-2007, 06:46 AM
First of all, screw the refs! On the play when they called a jump ball, then a Pacers ball, then a Knicks ball, it was a loose ball foul on David Lee all along.
You're not allowed to come from the back and grab the ball in the hands of player like Lee did, especially when you grab the players' arm at the same time.



I just don't get it. What is his hatred for big men? I know both Foster & Murphy had five fouls but for all purposes Jeff fouled out with 5 tonight & for the most part so did Murphy.


This is something I will never understand. In this league, you are allowed to commit up to 6 fouls and yet, as soon as you have 5 you are sent to the bench for the rest of the game, as if the coach wanted to protect you for a hypothetical overtime...

It was a pretty good game overall. A loss, but a loss that is in now way comparable to the loss at NJ. I'm really glad we got smart, unselfish players in Dunleavy and Murphy.

I really liked Dunleavy's off the ball movement. It was he first time since Reggie's retirement that a Pacer moved that much without the ball in its hands. And when he pulled that little pump fake and got the 'and 1' I was like:
'Oh my! Reggie's back' and I suspect that many of us had the same feeling.


However, two things really bothered me in this game:
- Danny's lack of PT in the 3rd and early 4th. He was our leading scorer, why hide him on the bench like that?
- Jamaal Tinsley played very well I thought until he decided to go 'Mel Mel' on the Pacers. We definitely need to get another PG to really change this team.

You gotta give credit to the Knicks also. I thought they played an excellent game, especially Q-Rich, David Lee and Marbury.

I've never been a fan of him, but Marbury was great tonight, I'd take him over Jamaal in a heartbeat if I had to choose. He distributed the ball adequately, fed the guy with the hot hand, made some big shots. He was quiet and yet finished the game with 22 pts and 6 dimes.

I must say that, like many of us, I'm pleased with the way this team is going.
What I saw tonight was a more academic, slow-paced basketball, the kind of basketball that allows us to play to our strength (aka. JO). I don't know what you think of the whole 'faster pace' thing but for me the experiment is over, and I'm glad it is.

:sunshine:

Unclebuck
01-21-2007, 09:05 AM
Peck, you may not like small ball but if DA didn't play the last 6 minutes of the game last night the Pacers never would have gotten back in the game - never would have had a chance. So I thought the Pacers had to go small at crunch time.

I wasn't at the game, but what was the crowd's reaction to the new guys????

Kegboy
01-21-2007, 10:16 AM
Peck, you have to remember we were playing the Knicks, as in, "Let's play Eddie Gill at the 3" Knicks. So considering that we only played 2 Points together for only half a quarter seems like a victory to me. :yay:

I think calling it a 5-point play works better than "5 points in 2 seconds."

You know, I've never liked Dunleavy. I've always thought his dad was a terrible coach, and I've never liked Dukies that get crammed down your throat. I thought he got way too much credit in college, considering opponents were always busy doubling other players, and it was utterly ridiculous that he was a lottery pick, let alone #3. I wasn't the least bit surprised by how his career in Oakland went.

Now, all that being said, if he keeps playing like he did last night, he may just become my favorite Pacer. (Though, it's not like he has much competition considering how scorched earth I was about our roster.) I thought it was getting a bit ridiculous when everyone kept saying "He's just a basketball player", but, they're right. He knows what he's doing out there.

Long before the 3rd quarter I was very impressed with what I saw. Not only does he keep his body moving, but his eyes are moving too, taking in the court, analyzing what's going on. His skills aren't great, but he seemed very fluid out there. He's not a great defender, but he kept good position most of the time, even when he and Troy obviously didn't know the defensive rotations. I can see him quickly becoming one of Rick's favorites, because he's gonna take to Rick's system like a fish to water.

Lastly, Ike's arms are really long.

Skaut_Ech
01-21-2007, 11:20 AM
I finally watched a game again. The lack of Jackson isa really helping to improve my outlook on this team. I gotta say, for my money, this game was REALLY ugly, which is to be expected. The players unfamiliarity with each other was really painful to watch. REALLY painful.

Now I'm not going to go on a we HAVE to get rid of Tinsley rant, but I will say this. If we ever needed a leader at PG, it's now. I'm sure it's by design and familiarity with each other that Jamaal and JO tried to play a two man game, and have the rest of the guys feed off of that, but if we had a different type PG, I think this transition will be a lot less painful. Do you see Jamaal integrating the new guys into things, or not really, they're on their own? I think you guys know my answer.

That being said, I think Murphy is gonna be really big for this team. With all due respect to the GS fan who made a post on the abilities of our acquisitions, I disagreed with a lot of what he said. I admit, I don't get to see GS play a lot, but I keep up with them and especially Troy Murphy. I've always likeds him I think one thing that gets lost in the analysis of him is how Troy spent a lot of time in the past few years dealing with injuries and being put into a role thjat he wasn't quite cut out for. Troy is not going to be your POST presence and no #1 inside guy, but he can be a great #2 guy, which he is now. Yeah, his stats have been down the past few years, but like Peck said, the boy can board and now he's in a position to do that and not have to be the number #1 inside scoring presense.

Not to be too grandiose, but I'll make a comparision using two guys, just because they're universally known. I can see JO and Murphy being our McHale/Parrish. Our Duncan/Robinson. I'm not saying our guys are as good as those Giants, but I can see them being two guys who can play in the same space on the floor and not allow defenses to pack it in on JO.

Let's be honest. Troy is never going to be a strong defender, but I think he brings a lot across the board that will ultimately translate to a better team. I'm pretty excited to have my fellow Pacer fans find out about him.

Kegboy, I hear ya about Dukies. That being said, I think Dunleavy is a basketball player and that's why I've always liked him. What I mean by that is that he's not a jumping jack or guy who relies on athletic ability or a certain specialty. Yeah, he went too high in the draft, but I never held that against him. The kid is smart and that's what this team needs. I'm hoping he'll bring somewhat of a Detlef Shrempf presense to the team.

This was the game that brought me back into the fold. It was pretty much torture to watch becasue I know once things gell, the boys will look so much better, hence I'm not gonna analyze or comments too much.

And pingu?


I've never been a fan of him, but Marbury was great tonight, I'd take him over Jamaal in a heartbeat if I had to choose. He distributed the ball adequately, fed the guy with the hot hand, made some big shots. He was quiet and yet finished the game with 22 pts and 6 dimes.

Yeah....sigh...yeah. He was feeding the hot hand. That's what I'm looking for in a PG. It's funny, since Francis has been injured, Marbury's head has gotten into a different place. I think he needs to be known as the leader by his staff in order for him to function effectively and he's in that place now.

aceace
01-21-2007, 11:43 AM
I'll keep this short and sweet since many of my thoughts are above. I saw enough last night to know that we will be very good in the future. Its going to take a few games and some adjustments in team defense. Dun and Murphy will be worth the short wait. Lets hope we can pull out a bunch of these home games in the next month. If we can get to the fourth seed (a stretch) we could be a very tough team to play against.

tadscout
01-21-2007, 02:07 PM
Peck, you may not like small ball but if DA didn't play the last 6 minutes of the game last night the Pacers never would have gotten back in the game - never would have had a chance. So I thought the Pacers had to go small at crunch time.

I think we could have won if Armstrong was in like he was... but Daniels was in for Mel Mel the last 3 min... it would have saved us from Mel Mel in the O end and Tinsley the Matador on the Marbury Iso on the other end...

Peck I love the :sunshine:

naptown
01-21-2007, 02:36 PM
And lets not even mention that was one of the worst officiated games I have seen in a long time. And that is saying something considering the NBA has the worst officials in professional sports.

v_d_g
01-21-2007, 03:02 PM
Let me start off by saying that Eddy Curry's game both amazed me & offended me at the same exact time.

The guy is just literally a full fledged bulldozer in the blocks, not to mention when the refs. let the guy litterally push off & call the foul on the opponet but that is for another time. Let's face it we have nobody who can body up to the man & even pretend to stop him or even slow him down, I'm not sure very many teams do have a player that can do that.

On the other hand how the hell can you be 6'11" tall 300lbs & not grab more than one rebound even accidently? He has zero rebounds the entire d@mn game until the last part of the 4th when he tips in his first offensive rebound of the game. Of course we lose by two, go figure.

His defense is abysmal & the fact that he doesn't grab 12 rpg offends me like no other but I'll give him this, on offense he is a low post beast.



I wouldn't worry too much about Curry, Peck. He's been boarding alot better lately (though not last night) and he has been more active on defense. You have to admit that you were IMPRESSED by his athleticism. This time next year, Curry is the best center in the East (by far). The KNICKS aren't hurting too much, giving up their 2007 # 1 for him ---can you say the same about our #1 (and Artest) for AL? ---- probably not.

And, like me, you're probably a bit pissed that Harrison could play the same kind of game that Curry does but will never be given the chance to develop. In fact, Harrison is probably more athletic (more active, better boarder) than Curry.

And, watching David Lee play, you were probably supressing the thought that he was better than Granger (at what he does) and has an incredible upside. Lee is a flat out star.

As for Richardson: he's been hot for quite a while now ---his game is back, as is Marbury's

Come on, Peck, let's MUTINY over to KNICKS, where athletic, entertaining BBALL happens every night. Then again, we could PLOD along with the Pacers, where charge-taking is the pinnacle of bball.

Unclebuck
01-21-2007, 03:24 PM
Just a comment: I was reading The Real GM Warriors Forum game thread on the Pacers game and someone made a comment about Tinsley freezing out Dunleavy. I didn't really notice it last night, but I had to just block Tinsley out of my mind in order to watch the game without throwing things

Jermaniac
01-21-2007, 03:32 PM
Tins didnt freezing out anyone. He threw Dunleavy a alleyoop at a very crucial point of the game. Dunleavy took 17 shots, he wasnt getting frozen out by anybody.

quiller
01-21-2007, 03:38 PM
Unfortunately I did not get to watch much of the game past the 85-85 tie in the 4th... and yes I dislike Tin's when it seems he is just trying to one up the other pg... still the reality... of last night game... three other pacers took more shots then Tin's.. he only took two three point shots made one big one.. and I remember his one miss.. got the ball right back still open this time faked the shot... then drove with a dish for a bucket... (just recently he got really crucified on this board for missing two open threes back to back in a similiar situation so I figured that would get some mention.)

Now with knicks.. only one player took more shots then Stephen... he also had 3 TO to 1 for Tin's.. who also had 5 steals.. yes he didn't shoot the ball well at all even with out the 3's 4-14 but not much worse then Granger 6-16 and Dun's 6-17.

I will say I was impressed with Quin's game I like that he seems to be able to hit the mid range jumper regularly... he should have gotten more minutes in the game but was out while we road the "hot" hand of Dun in the 3rd into the 4th.

Basically until we improve our defense and keep teams from getting any shot they want we will continue to struggle. Quins needs to start playing better defense

imawhat
01-21-2007, 04:45 PM
I thought there were a few times that Dunleavy was wide open and Tinsley refused to pass him the ball. At least I couldn't see Jackson or Harrington not getting the ball in the same situation.

andreialta
01-21-2007, 05:01 PM
have been an avid poster on the Warriorsworld.net and www.goldenstateofmind.com (http://www.goldenstateofmind.com), and have seen every warriors game this year, and i always have to argue with someone for Dunleavy and Troy, it seems like the whole bay-area except me and a few exceptions really hate Murphleavy as what some of them referrs to, but in reality, they are not really bad players, just players that really does not fit Don Nelson's style of basketball. Throughout this year, Murphy has been really non existent but i saw all his games last year and he was very good, rebounding, driving, just dont expect much of a post up game from him. Dunleavy this year i think has been good, though he got pulled of the starting line-up, I still think of him as very valuable on that team, he saved a lot of games for us, we were down then he just came in the game and changed the whole complexion of the game, dont look at the stats because he really doesn't fill it up on a daily game basis but you definitely know his prescense when he sets screens, move with out the ball, dive cuts and spacing the floor.

tadscout
01-21-2007, 05:04 PM
I thought there were a few times that Dunleavy was wide open and Tinsley refused to pass him the ball. At least I couldn't see Jackson or Harrington not getting the ball in the same situation.

:iagree:

Skaut_Ech
01-21-2007, 05:21 PM
I thought there were a few times that Dunleavy was wide open and Tinsley refused to pass him the ball. At least I couldn't see Jackson or Harrington not getting the ball in the same situation.

First of all, thanks andreialta for the post.

imawhat, yeah, there were a few times. Also, one glaring snub, to me, was when Troy first came into the game. He backed got position on Malik Rose, then proceeded to back him all the way into the paint. He was a step from a ctach, turn and shoot, with a shot about 3-4 feet from the rim. Jamall pounded the ball looking at him, as if trying to decide, then dribbled to the other side of the corcle, where JO was. Anyone else remember that.

Yeah, Mel-Mel was definitly looking for only his buddy.

MagicRat
01-21-2007, 05:24 PM
First of all, thanks andreialta for the post.

imawhat, yeah, there were a few times. Also, one glaring snub, to me, was when Troy first came into the game. He backed got position on Malik Rose, then proceeded to back him all the way into the paint. He was a step from a ctach, turn and shoot, with a shot about 3-4 feet from the rim. Jamall pounded the ball looking at him, as if trying to decide, then dribbled to the other side of the corcle, where JO was. Anyone else remember that.

Yeah, Mel-Mel was definitly looking for only his buddy.

And we know that call didn't come in from Rick?

Skaut_Ech
01-21-2007, 06:25 PM
Play or no, I can't see Rick calling a play, having a guy standing under the basket for a layup against a smaller guy....and NOT passing him the ball. Jamaal was on the left wing, almost like it was an isolation play. Everyone else was on the other side of the floor. I thought Jamaal was going to drive on his man, but then Troy backed his man under the basket and waved for the ball. Tinsley looked at him a few seconds, then dribbled to the side of the floor where everyone else was, especially JO. Anyone else remember the play. Murphy has only been in a minute or so.

vapacersfan
01-21-2007, 07:16 PM
I do remember that play.

I found that kind of odd, but who knows, maybe Rick told him to look for JO a little more at that point. I did find it odd, though.

quiller
01-22-2007, 12:19 AM
I do remember that play.

I found that kind of odd, but who knows, maybe Rick told him to look for JO a little more at that point. I did find it odd, though.


Maybe Rick was trying his best to foul out thier bigs Curry included knowing they were having a hard time stopping Curry and the Knicks stopping JO. Also gettin in the penalty as soon as posible in the 4th qtr is a good thing. In general Murphy is not going to draw many fouls in the post on set plays like JO will.