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Quis
01-20-2007, 03:54 PM
At 10.0 rpg, Troy Murphy was the 6th leading rebounder in the NBA in last year in only 34.0 mpg, which is less minutes than anyone else in the top-8. LINK (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbarebound&league=nba&sort=totreb&order=true&season=2006)

At 10.8 rpg, Troy Murphy was the 5th leading rebounder in the NBA in 2004-2005 in only 33.9 mpg, which is less than anyone else in the top-7. LINK (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbarebound&league=nba&sort=totreb&order=true&season=2005)

I bet those two facts will surprise a lot of people here who don't realize what a gifted rebounder Troy is. Another thing I really like is his shooting touch. You know how many of these jump shooting big men have killed us in the past (see: Nenad Krstic in last years playoffs) so it's finally nice to have one for ourselves.

This guys basically Foster with offense in place of defense.

Cobol Sam
01-20-2007, 04:03 PM
I am intrigued by a possible lineup featuring Murphy, Foster, Dunleavy on the floor at the same time while JO is resting or in foul trouble. Add Granger to that mix and you've got guys with a nose for the ball.

Trader Joe
01-20-2007, 04:09 PM
I really think Troy will end up being our starting 5.

Cobol Sam
01-20-2007, 04:10 PM
I really think Troy will end up being our starting 5.

I think its ideal. Foster would be able to go balls to the wall even more...

ChicagoPacer
01-21-2007, 02:15 AM
One thing that is a bit deceptive about Murphy is the pace at which Golden State played the last few years. If you play faster, there are more missed Field Goals. If there are more missed field goals, you have more rebound chances per game.

Fact: Golden State had the 2nd most rebounding chances in the league last year at 90.4 missed FGs per game (GS and opponent). More chances = more rebounds. Add up opponents and team missed FGs here if you don't believe me.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2006.html

Fact: Golden State was also the 6th worst rebounding team in the league. (Same link)

If your team is weak at rebounding and you're the only guy to clean up the glass, you're going to get more rebounds. Pair him with JO and he won't get as many.

A better way to look at it is: There are 10 guys on the floor. What are the odds that Murphy gets the rebound rather than someone else?

Jeff Foster is #3. Murphy is #28. See the RbR column here:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/labs/apbr.cgi?franch=All&first=2006&last=2006&combine=Yes&minage=0&maxage=99&stat=RbR&min=500&sort=desc&limit=100&submit=View+Stats

In 100 rebounding chances, Foster will get 3 more than Murphy, and O'Neal will get 1 less. Put him on a team where he's competing for rebounds with his teammates, and he's probably equal to or less than O'Neal. Not bad at all, but not as good and rebounds per game indicate.

For the guys old enough to remember: what we're getting out of Troy Murphy = Steve Stipanovich. Not a bad player at all. Decent rebounder. Decent scorer. Not a good defender. Not a guy capable of playing big minutes. He's a 30 mpg game tops over the course of a season guy now.

If you look out on the floor and he's a team's #3 scorer, #1 or #2 rebounder, and #5 defender, the team is a 50+ win team.

Quis
01-21-2007, 03:32 AM
Murphy was impressive tonight. He's every bit as good as overrated Brad Miller i.m.o. and should start the rest of the season.

I love our front court. We've got Offense (O'Neal, Murphy), Defense (O'Neal, Foster), Rebounding (O'Neal, Foster, Murphy) and great potential (Diogu, maybe even Harrison still)

Will Galen
01-21-2007, 05:11 AM
I love our front court. We've got Offense (O'Neal, Murphy), Defense (O'Neal, Foster), Rebounding (O'Neal, Foster, Murphy) and great potential (Diogu, maybe even Harrison still)

(Rubbing hands together) Now for the backcourt!

odeez
01-21-2007, 12:09 PM
At 10.0 rpg, Troy Murphy was the 6th leading rebounder in the NBA in last year in only 34.0 mpg, which is less minutes than anyone else in the top-8. LINK (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbarebound&league=nba&sort=totreb&order=true&season=2006)

At 10.8 rpg, Troy Murphy was the 5th leading rebounder in the NBA in 2004-2005 in only 33.9 mpg, which is less than anyone else in the top-7. LINK (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/statistics?stat=nbarebound&league=nba&sort=totreb&order=true&season=2005)

I bet those two facts will surprise a lot of people here who don't realize what a gifted rebounder Troy is. Another thing I really like is his shooting touch. You know how many of these jump shooting big men have killed us in the past (see: Nenad Krstic in last years playoffs) so it's finally nice to have one for ourselves.

This guys basically Foster with offense in place of defense.

Yo Quis, no doubt Murph is like foster with the rebounds, and is offensive is a big plus. I saw him take it to the rim last night and my eye almost fell out of my head. The bottom line is he is giving us something Al could never give us. This trade is already good in my eyes, the true test is how well we play as a team up to the All Star break. I want to say we will have the best record in the East (not that hard to do, i know). Most of these games will be at home so we should do well.

Big UPS for MURPH

Quis
01-25-2007, 10:51 AM
Murphy's averaging a double-double (11.3 ppg, 10.3 rpg) in only 29.7 mpg in his 3 games with the Pacers. And the good news is, that type of production is the norm with him. I see so much praise for Dunleavy around here, but I myself think Murphy is the more productive player who will end up helping the Pacers more.

IndyFan032589
01-25-2007, 10:58 AM
I'm really liking the Murphy part of the trade, I still think we can construct Diogu into a good player but Dunleavy and McLeod are basically roster fillers IMO.

diamonddave00
01-25-2007, 11:28 AM
I expect Troy Murphy to produce 14 ppg and 9.5-10.5 rpg in around 32 minutes a night. Ike Diogu will be a solid 6-10 ppg player off the bench in around 15mpg.

Mike Dunleavy , I see as 11-14 points a night , 4-6 boards and 3 or 4 assist nothing flashy but acceptable.

I was not over joyed by the trade but it appears these pieces may be better fits here. Murphy will definately grow on Pacer fans , he'll offer the big man with range on his shot and rebounding.

Little side note on Troy Murphy he was drafted by the Warriors in 2001 with the Pacer pick acquired in the Jeff Foster for Vonteego Cummings and a #1 pick trade of draft night 1999..

naptownmenace
01-25-2007, 12:50 PM
Murphy had a great game last night and I think it will be a lot easier for him to score with defenses cheating off him to double JO. He came up big last night. I'm definitely not suprised by his rebounding numbers either.

He's consistently been a good rebounder his entire career and even when he doesn't get the board he often gets a hand on it, which helps keep the other team from getting a quick outlet to start a fast break.

Evan_The_Dude
01-25-2007, 01:55 PM
I'm really liking the Murphy part of the trade, I still think we can construct Diogu into a good player but Dunleavy and McLeod are basically roster fillers IMO.

Dunleavy a roster filler? You must be looking at stats and not his effectiveness when he's in the game. Just having him in there playing decent defense, handling the ball, and making precise passes helps us a lot. He's done all of those things in all the games he's played for us thus far.

Seed
01-25-2007, 02:08 PM
Troy can be a nice addition to the starting 5, but we also need some scoring off the bench. So as long as there is no solid scorer from the bench, I'd keep troy there. I guess if Ike gets more minutes he can become this scorer, and Troy can move to the starting 5.

naptownmenace
01-25-2007, 02:21 PM
Troy can be a nice addition to the starting 5, but we also need some scoring off the bench. So as long as there is no solid scorer from the bench, I'd keep troy there. I guess if Ike gets more minutes he can become this scorer, and Troy can move to the starting 5.

Troy's started the last 2 games and I think he'll keep his spot.

Naptown_Seth
01-25-2007, 02:38 PM
One thing that is a bit deceptive about Murphy is the pace at which Golden State played....(snip)
Great post, great numbers, solid points.

I agree totally with the Stipo comparison. Murphy fits into the team much better than Al did. I see that as a much bigger improvement than Dun vs Jack. The concern with Murph is health, and if he will keep Foster away from minutes.

As long as Jeff gets his 20 mpg I think this will work out well.


I was not over joyed by the trade but it appears these pieces may be better fits here. Murphy will definately grow on Pacer fans , he'll offer the big man with range on his shot and rebounding.
I agree. I really like the interaction with Tins/JO/Murph. The triangle spacing and ball movement between them looks very promising. That step out jump shot will put a lot of pressure on the hard doubles that teams have been throwing at JO.

Al could hit the deep shot of course, but he didn't move off of screens/PnRs well, didn't slide out smoothly, and certainly didn't show the hands for the kind of fundamentals style passing that Murphy pulls off. Murph comes off as a far more disciplined spot up big than Al did.

This trade could very well be the win-win that both teams hoped for.

CableKC
01-25-2007, 02:38 PM
Troy can be a nice addition to the starting 5, but we also need some scoring off the bench. So as long as there is no solid scorer from the bench, I'd keep troy there. I guess if Ike gets more minutes he can become this scorer, and Troy can move to the starting 5.
If we want scoring from the Bench...Diogu is the one. He may become a offensive blackhole....but as long as he is paired with Foster and Foster can simply focus on doing the little things that Diogu isn't capable of learning quiet yet....I won't mind if all Diogu does is get the ball to score inside the paint everytime he comes off the bench. He simply has the offensive skills to abuse backup Big Men.

I understand that...for now....he doesn't have the necessary non-offensive skills to warrant playing with a majority of the starters.....but if he simply focuses on scoring and pulling down some rebounds when he comes off the bench.....he could be a very reliable scoring option when paired up with more "offensively-challenged but defensive minded" players...like Greene/McLeod and Foster.

The only problem that I can see is that I can see the offense from the bench lineup slow down considerably when he gets the ball. Is that a good or bad thing for players coming off the bench?

Seed
01-25-2007, 03:05 PM
The only problem that I can see is that I can see the offense from the bench lineup slow down considerably when he gets the ball. Is that a good or bad thing for players coming off the bench?
Yeah, and that's surely why he didn't get that much PT with GSW. I guess its a good thing when the bench can change the tempo somewhat. More options for the coach that way. Anyway, guess your'e right - if Ike is to be the main scoring option from the bench, then this implies a slow offense.

CableKC
01-25-2007, 03:22 PM
Yeah, and that's surely why he didn't get that much PT with GSW. I guess its a good thing when the bench can change the tempo somewhat. More options for the coach that way. Anyway, guess your'e right - if Ike is to be the main scoring option from the bench, then this implies a slow offense.
I'm not suggesting that Diogu plays 20 or 30 minutes.....at best...he's the 4th Big Man off the bench. If he is able to come in consistently for 10 to 15 minutes a game....do what he does best by simply scoring and getting his standard 5 fouls...then I will be happy.

Although he can be an offensive blackhole....Diogu is very good at not only drawing fouls in the low-post and is a very good FT shooter for a PF ( he's a 80% career FT shooter ). Maybe the best way to use Ike is to use him based off of matchups....when the opposing starting PF and C get into foul trouble, has to sit and the backup Big Men have to play some extended minutes....that's the time for Ike to come in :shrug: ( assuming that JONeal needs some rest ) and do some damage.

It seems logical to assume that his offensive skills could be put to good use in the right situation. For this season...if this happens against the 2nd/3rd Big Man...I could see some benefit in playing him as a very solid scoring option off the bench while giving JONeal or Murphy some rest. Also...the more scoring he does...the more confidence he will gain...which should help in the long run.

TheDon
01-25-2007, 06:15 PM
I wish we could have a second unit that consisted of somethin like this for the front court

SF - Shawne Williams
PF - Digou
C - Jeff

The backcourt is a little tricky but I like this for our 2nd unit

PG - Darrel Armstrong
SG - Quis

I like our starting lineup we just need to get it through Tinsley's head that every fan would love him if he had about 10 points and 10 assists a game. Now that he has more options of people to throw the ball around to I think his assist numbers will go up once he starts trusting in his other teammates. I think last night that one play where Tinsley dragged two defenders with him and then he dished the ball to Murphy was a great start at Tinsley starting to trust the people around him.

PG - Tinsley
SG - Dunleavy
SF - Granger
PF - JO
C - Murphy

Only other thing that I would like for us to have is to have a decent backup PG with good defense that can hold down the fort and run the offense while Jamaal catches his breath. I would love to be able to trade Harrison to get Ridnour off the Sonics, than we wouldn't have to lean so heavily on poor DA who is leaving it all on the court every night. Maybe in the draft everybody will be picking up so many bigs that one of the better small guys will fall down to us and allow us to upgrade our backcourt. I think in the coming weeks Tinsley is going to make believers out of all of us and this team will gel. :pray: we deserve to have something start to work for this franchise.

arenn
01-25-2007, 06:20 PM
Foster may be a better rebounder than Murphy, but the marginal difference between the two in that stat is overwhelmed by the fact that Murphy is a legitimate offensive threat, while Foster is not. Having somebody who can reliably hit the midrange jumper is huge. I believe this opens up a large number of possibilities on offense that Rick will be adding to the repertoire over time.

I thought the Murphy-Foster combo last night worked great. Murphy did what we wanted him to do, and Foster was able to come in off the bench and really add an immediate energy boost like he used to before he became the starter. Foster was very key to that third quarter rally.

Pacerized
01-25-2007, 07:34 PM
I think ChicagoPacer is correct in evaluating Murphy's rebounding. He's a good rebounder, but not great. Don't get me wrong on Murphy, I'm happy to have him on the team, and I'm o.k. with his starting for now, but the jury is still out until I see what he brings consistently. I think a few fans on the post game thread last night are a little to quick to anoint Murphy. He's not Brad Miller, and he's not significantly better then Foster. You have to give it to him on the offense, which I hope will help spread the floor, but he's not quite the rebounder Foster it, and not nearly the defender. He is a good big man, and that comes at a premium in the nba. If he brings the effort he showed last night for the next 20 games, I'll be even happier to have him, and declare Murphy the long term starter.

imawhat
01-25-2007, 07:44 PM
I'm completely shocked at Murphy's rebounding numbers. I'm not saying this to be negative, but he never boxes out.

I guess that just shows there's more to rebounding than boxing out. He's as good as anyone on both ends of the court at swooping in for the rebound. Either way, his rebounding takes pressure off of Jermaine, which is a very good thing.

BlueNGold
01-25-2007, 08:00 PM
I think ChicagoPacer is correct in evaluating Murphy's rebounding. He's a good rebounder, but not great. Don't get me wrong on Murphy, I'm happy to have him on the team, and I'm o.k. with his starting for now, but the jury is still out until I see what he brings consistently. I think a few fans on the post game thread last night are a little to quick to anoint Murphy. He's not Brad Miller, and he's not significantly better then Foster. You have to give it to him on the offense, which I hope will help spread the floor, but he's not quite the rebounder Foster it, and not nearly the defender. He is a good big man, and that comes at a premium in the nba. If he brings the effort he showed last night for the next 20 games, I'll be even happier to have him, and declare Murphy the long term starter.

Yes, Murphy needs to prove he can be at least decent on a regular basis to secure the starting spot. However, what Murphy brings needs to be fully understood before making any conclusions.

His ability to spread the floor is of vital importance...and that value does not show up in his stats. It opens up the lane for Quis to make a drive, and gives JO much more room to work. It improves passing angles and provides a fifth person to play on offense.

Basically, Murphy is a cross between Foster and Croshere....a little more well rounded and better than either of them considering everything. The upgrade is not significant unless you put it into the context of our team.

Quis
01-25-2007, 08:11 PM
I think ChicagoPacer is correct in evaluating Murphy's rebounding. He's a good rebounder, but not great. Don't get me wrong on Murphy, I'm happy to have him on the team, and I'm o.k. with his starting for now, but the jury is still out until I see what he brings consistently. I think a few fans on the post game thread last night are a little to quick to anoint Murphy. He's not Brad Miller, and he's not significantly better then Foster. You have to give it to him on the offense, which I hope will help spread the floor, but he's not quite the rebounder Foster it, and not nearly the defender. He is a good big man, and that comes at a premium in the nba. If he brings the effort he showed last night for the next 20 games, I'll be even happier to have him, and declare Murphy the long term starter.

Look at his numbers from his past 2 seasons in Golden State. He's legit.

And what do you mean he's "not Brad Miller"? He's every bit as good as Brad was. Not as good a passer, but an equal scorer and superior rebounder. Just because he didn't luck into a couple of fluke All-Star games like Brad did doesn't mean he's an inferior player.

owl
01-25-2007, 10:58 PM
If you can average 10 rebounds a game in this league in less that 35 minutes
a game you ARE a good rebounder. How many of those are in the league now?

Naptown_Seth
01-27-2007, 06:12 AM
I'm completely shocked at Murphy's rebounding numbers. I'm not saying this to be negative, but he never boxes out.

I guess that just shows there's more to rebounding than boxing out. He's as good as anyone on both ends of the court at swooping in for the rebound. Either way, his rebounding takes pressure off of Jermaine, which is a very good thing.
Yeah, he's definitely the crafty sneak-in type of rebounder. Lots of energy like Jeff, and it's almost like he doesn't box out intentionally because he knows its a waste of time when a player like himself is just going to slip around you at the last second anyway. ;)


When Foster is making putbacks and layups he's a good offensive force. He's not the guy you go through, but he's a guy that will make points on trips from bad shots. That's why his stretch of really bad close shooting was so troubling. 55% with the way he grabs boards is always going to help.

Foster is more physical to me. Murphy isn't really just Jeff with offense, they are slightly different from each other despite many similarities.


I like Foster with Ike as well, good pairing that lets Ike work the offense hard for a few minutes of scoring boost off the bench.

imawhat
01-27-2007, 04:09 PM
I like Foster with Ike as well, good pairing that lets Ike work the offense hard for a few minutes of scoring boost off the bench.


I think they're perfect for each other and the rest of the bench. I really hope it develops like it should because teams aren't going to feel relieved when we sub our starters out.