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Unclebuck
01-20-2007, 10:06 AM
This is one of those nights that I'm glad I have NBA League pass and that the Warriors play at 10:30. With any trade I find it interesting to see how the players the Pacers traded away fit in. After a few games my interest will wane, but for right now it is facinating.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2007/01/20/SPG3PNM6511.DTL&type=printable



Saturday, January 20, 2007



For the new players the Warriors will trot out tonight, their shoes are likely to get more breaking-in than the guys wearing them.

There will be no gradual easing-in of the ex-Pacers now that they are Warriors. No dipping their toes in the pool to see if the water is to their liking. In Don Nelson's world, it's either sink or swim, baby.

"We got them to be starters and by God, I'm going to do it,'' Nelson said Friday after Stephen Jackson, Al Harrington, Sarunas Jasikevicius and Josh Powell went through their first practice as Warriors, an enervating session that stretched beyond two hours.

"We're not going to fool around.''

That means Jackson and Harrington will be in the starting lineup tonight in Oakland with Baron Davis, Mickael Pietrus and Andris Biedrins as Golden State marks the halfway point of the season against the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Jackson will run with Davis in the backcourt while Harrington slides into the power forward spot. Pietrus and Jackson will probably alternate trying to keep LeBron James from being LeBron James.

"The lads are in good shape and they're ready to play,'' Nelson said. "It's very difficult when you make a major trade to get everyone on the same page. I'm a little worried how they'll do ... We have to be careful not to give everybody too much for the first three-four weeks and gradually add some things. Right now I want them to play not thinking about 100 little things.''

Jasikevicius and Powell will take their place on a Warriors bench that is now longer and deeper. Monta Ellis, Matt Barnes and Kelenna Azubuike will join Nelson's rotation and get their minutes off the bench instead of starting.

"All of a sudden we have a very deep team,'' Nelson said. "As long as we stay healthy, nobody should be overplayed at this point. I'm going to lengthen the roster and play more guys. I'm not going to play 12 guys but I'll probably play 10.''

Nelson's holdover players seemed energized by the additions of Jackson and Harrington, a trade-up in terms of athletic ability over Mike Dunleavy and Troy Murphy.

"It's a huge trade for us,'' said guard Jason Richardson, going through the drudgery of rehab while his broken hand heals. "We've got two guys in Jackson and Harrington that are capable of doing so many things in this style of offense. It's a good trade for us ... It's going to be exciting. I want to get this cast off.''

Pietrus is expected back tonight from an ankle injury -- just in time to play a little defense against one of the most dynamic offensive players in the league in James.

"He's one of the most powerful players I've played against,'' Pietrus said. "I'm going to try to minimize his touches. I'll be happy to play against him.''

Of his remade team, Pietrus said, "We are going to be a tough team to beat. Now we have a lot of guys who can play. I'm very excited about that. Everybody is excited. It should be a good thing for everyone.''

Friday's practice at the Warriors' facility in downtown Oakland was longer than recent sessions and served as an introduction for Jackson and Harrington to Nelson's up-tempo offense. They will get their run on in Oakland.

"We definitely play a faster pace,'' Barnes said. "That's something they have to adjust to. They're not used to all this running and open shots. I've never met a player who didn't want to shoot. I think they'll be fine.''

Unclebuck
01-20-2007, 10:10 AM
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/sports/basketball/nba/golden_state_warriors/16504505.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp


Harrington, Jackson will shore up defense

By Geoff Lepper
CONTRA COSTA TIMES

OAKLAND - On Wednesday night, when the Warriors had to scrape through their game against the Los Angeles Clippers with just seven active players, the timing of their eight-player deal with the Indiana Pacers seemed ridiculous.

In fact, forward Al Harrington and swingman Stephen Jackson might have arrived at the perfect moment: just in time to take on Cleveland Cavaliers star LeBron James.

It's not that James is a perennial Warriors-killer. His career average of 28.5 points per game against Golden State is only 2.0 points higher than his overall mark, and he was held to just 14 points in the Cavaliers' lone trip to Oakland last season.

It's just that the addition of Harrington, Jackson, Saruanas Jasikevicius and Josh Powell and the subtraction of Troy Murphy, Mike Dunleavy, Ike Diogu and Keith McLeod should instantly improve the defense that has struggled this month.

"It certainly doesn't hurt us, that's for sure," said Warriors coach Don Nelson, who frequently criticized Murphy, Dunleavy and Diogu for their deficiencies at that end of the floor.

Larry Riley, Nelson's top assistant, was a little more blunt: "We have some things we can work with. We expect to see improvement on the defensive end."

That shouldn't be hard. The Warriors are last in the league in points allowed at 106.8, although that stat is skewed heavily by how quickly Golden State tries to play.

A truer indicator is opponents' field goal percentage, which stands at 46.1 percent. That's 21st out of 30 NBA teams, and the Warriors' worst since 2000-01, when Golden State featured such defensive non-luminaries as Antawn Jamison and Marc Jackson.

The revamped Warriors' first test comes tonight. Either Jackson or forward Mickael Pietrus will open on James defensively, and it will be the start of what the Warriors hope can be a successful partnership on their part.

"I know that he's a guy (that) gets after it on the defensive end, and I think we'll complement each other that way," Jackson said of Pietrus.

Said Pietrus: "I used to have problems defending (Jackson's) post-ups. He's with me now, so I can learn from him."

A Western Conference scout acknowledged that Harrington gives the Warriors "a little toughness they didn't have," but noted that Jackson "is not a great defender. ... He likes to gamble for steals in order to get out on the break."

Warriors guard Jason Richardson, not surprisingly, disagrees with that assessment of Jackson's skills.

"He's a tough defender," Richardson said. "He's the type of guy you can rely on to guard (an opponent's) top scorer and pretty much contain him, keep him under his average."

Jackson, who instantly became the Warrior with the greatest postseason experience, is hoping to lead by example.

"Guys have got to want to do it," Jackson said. "Guys don't have a problem with running down to the other end and shooting shots. So guys shouldn't have a problem going out there and trying to stop them from scoring."

While Jackson makes a stand on the perimeter, Harrington could often match up with the opponent's best interior scoring threat, leaving center Andris Biedrins free to block shots and continue avoiding foul trouble.

"I think we're going to do a very good job," Harrington said of himself and Jackson. "We're more athletic than (Dunleavy and Murphy), and I think that coach can demand more out of us. And we have to give it to him. I have a lot of pride, Steve has a lot of pride, Josh Powell has a lot of pride. We've just got to bring that (defense) here and let the guys know that's what wins basketball games."

After having to rely on zone as a crutch for much of the first two months, the influx of new talent could allow the Warriors to get more aggressive and imaginative in their man-to-man schemes.

"I think we have to be really careful not to give everybody too much for the first three, four weeks, and then gradually add some things," Nelson said. "I would say after we've played together, we'll be able to do a lot of creative things. Right now, I want them to play and not think about 100 little things."

Contact Geoff Lepper at glepper@cctimes.com.

McKeyFan
01-20-2007, 10:11 AM
I get a kick out of listening to all this happy talk in Oakland.

Like Sacremento, it will just be a matter of time.

BoomBaby33
01-20-2007, 10:19 AM
I get a kick out of listening to all this happy talk in Oakland.

Like Sacremento, it will just be a matter of time.

Exactly ... just wait until Jackson is fouled and doesn't get a whistle, and he stands there arguing with the ref, while LeBron is on the other end dunking the ball. Man, I will not miss that at all. And Harrington ... where do they get that he is a good defender ... I sure didnt see it this season. He was constantly letting his player dominate the games.

MaHa3000
01-20-2007, 10:21 AM
I Hope to read a post game thread on tonight's G.S. game from those of you that get to watch it.

Unclebuck
01-20-2007, 10:22 AM
I do think though that Jax and Al are a defensive improvements over Murph and Dun. At least they should be. And if that was the whole trade I wouldn't be all that excited about the deal.

BlueNGold
01-20-2007, 10:35 AM
I get a kick out of listening to all this happy talk in Oakland.

Like Sacremento, it will just be a matter of time.

As much as I dislike Jack, he is no Artest. I would not be surprised if he kept a fairly low profile and played pretty well. The bigger problem IMO is with how Harrington will take being a back seat to Baron, Ellis and Richardson. Al likes to shoot every other time down the floor. At GS, he will not be doing that.

Los Angeles
01-20-2007, 11:14 AM
As much as I dislike Jack, he is no Artest. I would not be surprised if he kept a fairly low profile and played pretty well. The bigger problem IMO is with how Harrington will take being a back seat to Baron, Ellis and Richardson. Al likes to shoot every other time down the floor. At GS, he will not be doing that.

Bad tempers are bad tempers, and usually they get worse as a person gets older. I expect a honeymoon period for the rest of this season. But Jackson isn't going to fix what's broken until he gets therapy or something.

Kegboy
01-20-2007, 11:42 AM
This is one of those nights that I'm glad I have NBA League pass and that the Warriors play at 10:30.

Party at Buck's house!!!

odeez
01-20-2007, 12:01 PM
Time will tell... I will go check them out at some point during the season.

Evan_The_Dude
01-20-2007, 12:09 PM
I do think though that Jax and Al are a defensive improvements over Murph and Dun. At least they should be. And if that was the whole trade I wouldn't be all that excited about the deal.


I agree with you regarding Jax, but not Harrington. Jackson played good defense when he came to Indiana, but Carlisle preached defense to him and continued to beat that horse to death until he became even better on that end of the floor. He never got much out of Harrington, so I'm just wondering how it's going to be when Nellie doesn't even mention the word defense to Al in GS.

It's kind of unfair to compare the defensive ability of Murphy and Dunleavy to that of Harrington and Jackson because, the only coach that comes to mind that has ever mentioned the word there is Eric Musselman -- that didn't last very long.

It's a wait and see kind of thing to figure out what Carlisle gets out of them defensively. If he can get Sarunas playing respectable defense, I think he can get it out of just about anybody.

Jermaniac
01-20-2007, 12:31 PM
Monta Ellis is better then Jackson, and Nellie is dumb for benching him.

rexnom
01-20-2007, 12:35 PM
Monta Ellis is better then Jackson, and Nellie is dumb for benching him.
I, too, am puzzled here. Does GS not know how much Jack struggles on fast breaks and how he will just slow down any offense? It's weird. I guess they have him in there to guard LeBron but still...the fact that they think so highly of his play befuddles me. He doesn't really fit with them at all.

LG33
01-20-2007, 12:39 PM
My fantasy team will suffer thanks to Mr. Jackson (I have Mr. Ellis). Just another reason to love the gun-toting father of 11 (in 8 different cities).

Naptown_Seth
01-20-2007, 12:53 PM
I do think though that Jax and Al are a defensive improvements over Murph and Dun. At least they should be. And if that was the whole trade I wouldn't be all that excited about the deal.
Yep. That's why I made my rant about the Heat game and that terrible FG% allowed missing Jack and Al.

This is also why for the last few years I've gone off pretty badly when people list Jack as some terrible defender. Sure he's no Bowen or anything, but he is willing to get physical with guys and force them off their spots. Speed guys can hurt him, but bigger SG/SF types (like James, Wade) who like to work inside the arc more and flash a little of their own strength are guys he has matched up well with in the past.

GS's defense is dreadful, and 2 of the major parts of that just joined the Pacers.

It's kind of unfair to compare the defensive ability of Murphy and Dunleavy to that of Harrington and Jackson because, the only coach that comes to mind that has ever mentioned the word there is Eric Musselman -- that didn't last very long.
True. Fair point there.


I hear all this talk about the improvement, but I see a total wash in most things, a downgrade in defense, a downgrade in rebounding between Dunleavy and Harrington (compared because Dun is too slow for SG duty, too small for C play, just like Al), and somehow even less speed.

The Pacers didn't get Richardson and Biedrens coming back, but to hear some of the talk you'd think they did.


Having said that, clearly the Oakland press is unaware that Jack is no uptempo flier himself and that Al's defense this year isn't a ton better than what he is replacing. They have improved...SLIGHTLY.

And Saras is about to find out what not playing is all about. Honestly I have no sympathy for his crybaby fanboys who spent every day telling us what an idiot Rick was for not utilizing Cabbages better. I think Saras is about to find out the same things Fred, AJ and Croshere just learned...that with RC you actually got some playing time that other coaches aren't willing to hand out.



As much as I enjoyed Jack as a Pacer, I will be interested to see how his dynamic with the new coach works out. He won't feel comfortable enough to rip into him for a few months, but if he gets back to his old habit of yelling at the coach as he comes out of the game I suspect it won't get the same leeway with Nelson.


We are going to be sick seeing Harrington continuing his 3P% at 40% with this Warriors team, especially if Murphy continues his "hot" 1 for 11 January.

I guess I cross my fingers and hope that GS ends up sick when Diogu finds a role with the Pacers. How that happens with him being a pure low-post PF I don't know. But I do like his offensive game.

Unclebuck
01-20-2007, 01:42 PM
Party at Buck's house!!!

You didn't get my invite. Oops I forgot. Nevermind.

I'm shocked at how the Warrior coaches and his new teammates, and the media in the Bay Area all think that Jackson will thrive in the Warriors system. I think that Jackson is much better in a halfcourt system where he can use his greatest advantage his height to post up and to shoot his rainbow jumper - he's also better in a physical defensive system - an aggressive system where he can gamble.

And I think most Pacers fans agree with me on this. Is there anything uglier than Jackson running a fastbreak - I don't think so.

Should be very interesting

Unclebuck
01-20-2007, 02:06 PM
I guess I cross my fingers and hope that GS ends up sick when Diogu finds a role with the Pacers. How that happens with him being a pure low-post PF I don't know. But I do like his offensive game.

One thing that is very underrated in Diogu's game is his face up shooting. He's not just a post up player. He can hit the open 15-18 jumper without any problems. I have concerns about his defense and I don't think his rebounding is as good Bird and Walsh seem to think it is. But Diogu can make shots. That is his greatest asset.

So I think he and JO can and will play pretty well together

tadscout
01-20-2007, 02:24 PM
Guessing 10 or so combined TO from Jack and Al tonight... ;) :-p

Roferr
01-20-2007, 02:24 PM
Yep. That's why I made my rant about the Heat game and that terrible FG% allowed missing Jack and Al.

This is also why for the last few years I've gone off pretty badly when people list Jack as some terrible defender. Sure he's no Bowen or anything, but he is willing to get physical with guys and force them off their spots. Speed guys can hurt him, but bigger SG/SF types (like James, Wade) who like to work inside the arc more and flash a little of their own strength are guys he has matched up well with in the past.

GS's defense is dreadful, and 2 of the major parts of that just joined the Pacers.

True. Fair point there.


I hear all this talk about the improvement, but I see a total wash in most things, a downgrade in defense, a downgrade in rebounding between Dunleavy and Harrington (compared because Dun is too slow for SG duty, too small for C play, just like Al), and somehow even less speed.

The Pacers didn't get Richardson and Biedrens coming back, but to hear some of the talk you'd think they did.


Having said that, clearly the Oakland press is unaware that Jack is no uptempo flier himself and that Al's defense this year isn't a ton better than what he is replacing. They have improved...SLIGHTLY.

And Saras is about to find out what not playing is all about. Honestly I have no sympathy for his crybaby fanboys who spent every day telling us what an idiot Rick was for not utilizing Cabbages better. I think Saras is about to find out the same things Fred, AJ and Croshere just learned...that with RC you actually got some playing time that other coaches aren't willing to hand out.



As much as I enjoyed Jack as a Pacer, I will be interested to see how his dynamic with the new coach works out. He won't feel comfortable enough to rip into him for a few months, but if he gets back to his old habit of yelling at the coach as he comes out of the game I suspect it won't get the same leeway with Nelson.


We are going to be sick seeing Harrington continuing his 3P% at 40% with this Warriors team, especially if Murphy continues his "hot" 1 for 11 January.

I guess I cross my fingers and hope that GS ends up sick when Diogu finds a role with the Pacers. How that happens with him being a pure low-post PF I don't know. But I do like his offensive game.

Come on Seth, I think that you're going to be pleasantly surprised by how well Murphy and Dun fits into our team. JO will benefit the most from their presence. Defenses will not be able to sag on JO and he'll have more one on one situations.

Unlike most posters, I don't think Diogu, was the primary player in the deal. Although, I think that he'll work just fine alternating with Jeff. That way we will have a good rebounder down low at all times.

I believe that we can win 47-50 ball games yet this season and when the playoffs come around will be a well-oiled machine and the players will be comfortable with each other. You can't play the game on paper like you've been trying to by comparing the stats of each player. We may be somewhat weaker on individual defense but have a stronger team defense.

Anthem
01-20-2007, 02:47 PM
I still wish we could have gotten Pietrus in the deal... that would have made me a total believer.

Jermaniac
01-20-2007, 02:49 PM
I still wish we could have gotten Pietrus in the deal... that would have made me a total believer.
If we could have gotten Air France, instead of Dunleavy I would have been much happier.

rexnom
01-20-2007, 03:26 PM
If we could have gotten Air France, instead of Dunleavy I would have been much happier.
I don't think JO would agree with you. Dunleavy is a good role player. He's not a great shooter but he'll make the open shot, which is important when playing in zones. Also, he is anything but selfish and will get JO the ball. From what I've read, he's also a good entry passer, which will be key. JO's scoring will rise with this trade. He could never work in games once the other teams closed a zone in on him. Now he's got players that understand spacing, moving without the ball, and passing. I'm really happy with this trade from that perspective and I think JO is too.

ajbry
01-20-2007, 03:32 PM
Honestly, as is the case with most mid-season trades (Iverson, Webber), I expected Ellis and Barnes to be in the starting lineup tonight, opposed to Al and Stephen. Giving them confidence initially should help ease the transition. I'm definitely looking forward to their debut, especially because they're already big pieces to the Warriors, even in their first game.

bnd45
01-20-2007, 03:35 PM
Pietrus is hands down the dumbest basketball player in the league. Baron constantly is in his ear telling him what his latest mistake was. I watch a ton of Warrior games and all he does is stand in the corner and launch 3s so that Nellie can limit the chances for him to screw up. Obviously his athleticism can hide his low b-ball IQ, but he just doesn't have a feel for the game.

indyman37
01-20-2007, 03:43 PM
I know this is a little off topic but who do you think will start for the Pacers tonight? Pacers.com has the lineup of Tins/Quis/DG/JO/Jeff. But I had made the assumption that some of our new guys would be in our starting lineup.

tadscout
01-20-2007, 04:45 PM
Just saw on realgm that Baron Davis is suspended for tonights game... Link (http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/44313/20070120/baron_suspended_for_new_teammates_debut/)

Quis
01-20-2007, 04:46 PM
Yep, looks like Saras may be starting as well. God I hope they get blown out. :lol:

Roferr
01-20-2007, 05:52 PM
I, too, am puzzled here. Does GS not know how much Jack struggles on fast breaks and how he will just slow down any offense? It's weird. I guess they have him in there to guard LeBron but still...the fact that they think so highly of his play befuddles me. He doesn't really fit with them at all.

I think they know all about Jax's shortcomings as well as what he does correctly. I think they just wanted fresh faces as much as the Pacers did.

For example, Dun had 18 pts and 13 boards in his last game against the Clippers and he was booed, and they were playing at home. It seems that he never lived up to his #3 pick and the fans were disillusioned with him. However, we know he's not a #3 pick and he should fit in just fine here because we aren't expecting miracles from him.

Naptown_Seth
01-21-2007, 03:14 AM
Well after being strong most of the game Jack finished with a set of missed that really hurt his FG% 9-18 was nicer than 10-25.

Still the Warriors had a shot at the win when Jackson took the final 3. Up to that point he was 5-9 from 3 (55%) which makes it a good option. They blew it when they lost the lead midway through the 4th.

OT vs the Cavs without Baron Davis. Solid start.

Great numbers for Jackson except for the late shooting. Rebounds, assists, steals. Maybe had a chip but still.

Al, terrible from the floor but 2-5 from 3. But how about the rebounds - SIX OFFENSIVE, 12 total.

Even Saras had a nice offensive night, not really that different from what he did in Indy though.


Of course Murphy put up great numbers, Dunleavy didn't. The only major Pacer with a sub 1.00 PPS on the night.

Quis
01-21-2007, 03:18 AM
Well after being strong most of the game Jack finished with a set of missed that really hurt his FG% 9-18 was nicer than 10-25.

Still the Warriors had a shot at the win when Jackson took the final 3. Up to that point he was 5-9 from 3 (55%) which makes it a good option. They blew it when they lost the lead midway through the 4th.

OT vs the Cavs without Baron Davis. Solid start.

Great numbers for Jackson except for the late shooting. Rebounds, assists, steals. Maybe had a chip but still.

Al, terrible from the floor but 2-5 from 3. But how about the rebounds - SIX OFFENSIVE, 12 total.

Even Saras had a nice offensive night, not really that different from what he did in Indy though.


Of course Murphy put up great numbers, Dunleavy didn't. The only major Pacer with a sub 1.00 PPS on the night.


Probably not a good idea to have a guy shooting 29% on 3's taking the last shot from downtown.

rimock31
01-21-2007, 03:45 AM
bottom line, just seems to me like the warriors are looking much better and are more excited about this trade than anyone on the pacers except for LB and RC....I don't understand why we'd blow up a team to suit a coach's style instead of just hiring a coach who would have taken those players to the next level

CableKC
01-21-2007, 04:01 AM
bottom line, just seems to me like the warriors are looking much better and are more excited about this trade than anyone on the pacers except for LB and RC....I don't understand why we'd blow up a team to suit a coach's style instead of just hiring a coach who would have taken those players to the next level

This is only 1 game for both teams....admittedly...the box score looks great....while SJax and Harrington gives the Ws more scoring options......Harrington and ( especially ) SJax should come down to Earth with Baron and JRich returning to the lineup ( at some point ) and both of them are not taking up more then 1/3 of the FGAs.

All of us have to hold judgement until we see how both teams and players fair after a few more games together. I may not like that we didn't win and that ( of the four players ) SJax had the best "statline"....but we all know that he won't play like that forever.

For now, I feel better about the direction that the team is headed....at least a lot better then the way that we have played in the last 2 seasons.

Cobol Sam
01-21-2007, 02:26 PM
Jackson and Harrington played those types of games for us too. It was their lack of ability to do it night in and night out that made us a .500 team. When they get into a routine at GS, and the honeymoon ends we'll be able to evaluate the trade. (The same goes for Dun and Murph)

quiller
01-21-2007, 06:49 PM
Jackson and Harrington played those types of games for us too. It was their lack of ability to do it night in and night out that made us a .500 team. When they get into a routine at GS, and the honeymoon ends we'll be able to evaluate the trade. (The same goes for Dun and Murph)


One other thing to keep in mind also ... is Al and Jax in a minor way seem to react better to a hands off aproach to the game by the coach much like Nellie.. and I hope Dun's and Murph will be better by a more disciplined offensive aproach. i.e. Jax plays better when he is reacting not thinking you could say sometimes his thinking hurts his game.. Al just wants to be able to do what ever he wants with out any restraint by the coach. Dun's and Murph I hope will be better running set plays and being at the right spot at the right time..

Jax had a stat line last night that we love to hate.. 10-25 and 29 pts can't complain about the scoring but too many missed shots to get it.. GS probably are in love with him after last night but also did something that got a lot of play last year in boards.. missed the final big shot... Al... didn't do much though he did rebound... how many games did he give us with 6 offensive rebounds like he did last night.... by the way did any one notice Sars had a good shooting night though didn't play much...