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View Full Version : What PG should we (realistically) pursue?



Shade
01-19-2007, 12:45 PM
It should be pretty apparent to even the staunchest Tinsley supporters by now that the man is just too inconsistent and unreliable to run a title-contending team. So, if we want to do more than just settle for early playoff exits, we need to upgrade the position.

Who would you like to see the Pacers go after that may actually have a realistic chance of ending up here?

purdue101
01-19-2007, 12:54 PM
earl watson

JB's Breakout Year
01-19-2007, 01:05 PM
Love Tinsley's game when he's on, so I'm not even sure I want him traded. But Bibby is one guy I'd trade him for. The Kings are struggling mightily, and this might make sense for both sides. JT is more of a distributor when he's used right; we need Bibby's range.

Make it Foster (who I'd hate to see go, but you gotta give up quality to get it) and JT for Bibby.

Hicks
01-19-2007, 01:06 PM
We will be downgrading in talent if/when we trade Tinsley. All I ask is that our PG be good enough to warrant 25+mpg, and that he can do two things: Defend and shoot.

TheDon
01-19-2007, 01:07 PM
Luke Ridnour? :whoknows:

DaSMASH
01-19-2007, 01:12 PM
David Harrison for Rajon Rondo of the Celtics

Tinsley & Harrison to Toronto for Mo Pete and Jose Calderon

Dr. Goldfoot
01-19-2007, 01:15 PM
Here is a list of point guards who make roughly the same amount as Tinsley.

Eric Snow
Chauncey Billups
Antonio Daniels
Bobby Jackson
Troy Hudson
Earl Watson
Derek Fisher

Those would be the easiest to match salaries with and only one would make a difference and he's not going anywhere. Snow's too old, Daniels isn't starting material, Jackson is too old, Hudson would be a downgrade, Watson has no shot and Fisher is too old.

There's always the draft next year. Acie law from Texas A&M should be available in the mid to late 1st round. Mustafa Shakur puts up some impressive numbers for Arizona St.. Bobby Brown has a tremendous outside shot but he plays for Cal St. Fullerton. Jared Jordan of Marist (home of Smits) led the nation in assists last year and is currently averaging even more this year but he turns it over alot. I'm sure there are even more out there but I don't really follow college ball all that much. Seeing as how we've needed at least a solid backup since we sent Travis Best to Chicago and have only filled the gap with ageing vets, castaways and haven't drafted any points, but we've drafted 5 or six swingmen all while having those positions pretty well stocked over the last 4 or 5 seasons I see no reason why they would consider drafting a point guard at this juncture.

I see no player currently in the NBA who would be available to the Pacers that can bring us any closer to the title than Tinsley. At the rate Larry & Donnie are making trades these days, I'd like to stand pat before we futher downgrade the overall talent level on this team.

purdue101
01-19-2007, 01:16 PM
We will be downgrading in talent if/when we trade Tinsley. All I ask is that our PG be good enough to warrant 25+mpg, and that he can do two things: Defend and shoot.

it's hard to find a point who can shoot and defend, usually you have to sacrifice one for the other. those who can do both are hard to get your hands on and i doubt we have the goods to get it done.

considering the recent trade, i think shooting, rebounding, and distribution have improved. murphy and ike can hit the boards much better than al ever did. murphy and dunleavy are better/more consistent shooters than al and jax. dunleavy is also a very good passer along with quis (who is going to get more PT).

we can get away with a PG who is just average in passing & shooting. we need one who is a sturdy defender. that's why I want earl watson. he's a solid point who doesn't have any glaring weaknesses and is an above average defender. dribble penetration is killing us right now.

if we could somehow move tins and harrison for watson and a little more depth at the wing position i think we would be set.

Ragnar
01-19-2007, 01:17 PM
The only pg's who have more talent than Jamaal are not available. What we need is a coach who is not a control freak.

Phildog
01-19-2007, 01:19 PM
Keep Tinsley. He's won games for us this year. Maybe if had a consistent team of shooters, he would stay consistent. Most people on here were tooting his horn at the beginning of the year. He's played in all games, yes his defense sucks, but a good team is going to mask that. Emphasis on TEAM.

RWB
01-19-2007, 01:24 PM
Does it really matter now? Seriously it sounds we're back to throw it into JO permanently so how important will the point be?

I agree with Hicks that we're really in need of a point who can shoot and defend first rather than natural point skills.

Young
01-19-2007, 01:26 PM
If I was the Pacers I would make a strong run at Travis Diener of Orlando, although I don't think the Magic have been to happy with Carlos Arroyo so maybe Diener isn't that available at the moment.

Luke Ridnour is a guy i'd love to have. Only I don't know that he is avaliable. Maybe Ridnour and Danny Fortson for Jamaal Tinsley and Jeff Foster.

I like Derek Fisher. Although I don't see why the Jazz would trade him for Jamaal Tinsley.

I think that the Pacers best bet is to package up Tinsley with Jeff Foster and hope that it can land them a solid point guard. This team, IMO, is in trouble with the point guard situation right now.

Hicks
01-19-2007, 01:41 PM
The only pg's who have more talent than Jamaal are not available. What we need is a coach who is not a control freak.

And then Tinsley will be able to shoot and defend?

Hicks
01-19-2007, 01:42 PM
Does it really matter now? Seriously it sounds we're back to throw it into JO permanently so how important will the point be?

I agree with Hicks that we're really in need of a point who can shoot and defend first rather than natural point skills.

Exactly. Find an undersized shooting guard if you have to. If he can make an entry pass and can dribble up the court, he's fine. Just don't let him stand and dribble like Travis Best.

TheDon
01-19-2007, 01:43 PM
I think Ridnour would be fantastic of course it'd be nice to have Ray Allen but that's a pretty big pipe-dream. I think if we offered them David Harrison + Jamal Tinsley we could get Ridnour I have no idea what the contract matching situation is, but i'm fairly confident we could get Ridnour and that would be fantastic. Only thing I know would come up within probably days of the whole trade is the race issue some moron would inevitably question.

PG - Ridnour
SG - Marquise
SF - Dunleavey
PF - JO
C - Murphy/Foster

Too me it's not a big deal, but you know some idiot will play the race card.

jjbjjbjjb
01-19-2007, 01:44 PM
Go get Rajon and make up for missing him in the draft.

TheDon
01-19-2007, 01:45 PM
Go get Rajon and make up for missing him in the draft.


You mean the guy that can't throw a snowball into a pool from 20 feet?...pass

odeez
01-19-2007, 01:49 PM
Love Tinsley's game when he's on, so I'm not even sure I want him traded. But Bibby is one guy I'd trade him for. The Kings are struggling mightily, and this might make sense for both sides. JT is more of a distributor when he's used right; we need Bibby's range.

Make it Foster (who I'd hate to see go, but you gotta give up quality to get it) and JT for Bibby.

hmmm... interesting, that might work.

jjbjjbjjb
01-19-2007, 01:50 PM
Exactly. Find an undersized shooting guard if you have to. If he can make an entry pass and can dribble up the court, he's fine. Just don't let him stand and dribble like Travis Best.

Ehh...personally, I would rather not bring back Fred Jones.

odeez
01-19-2007, 01:51 PM
Who would we have to put in a package to get Kidd?

able
01-19-2007, 01:52 PM
ROTFL

"get rid of Tinsley" yep :D


Do you really think that we can get better with another PG as long as Rick coaches this team?

Bring back AJ, our previous starting PG, who can hardly break the rotation on a basketball team where he is asked to "point"

Tins is fine, it's the coaching that in that particular department (player and position) is dismal

rexnom
01-19-2007, 01:53 PM
Go get Rajon and make up for missing him in the draft.
Even just a few months after the draft I can confidently say that Shawne Williams was a much better pick than Rondo. Watching him plenty in Boston, it has become clear that he is a horrible shooter and ballhandler and is not at all what we need right now.

Also, like Hicks said, shoot and defend is key. I'm still holding out for Delonte West. The Celts are not nearly as high on him now as they were and the man can shoot and defend. He can also play basic PG. If you pair him Marquis or Dunleavy you have two capable ball handlers that are also fairly intelligent players.

odeez
01-19-2007, 01:58 PM
TINS is not fine, he makes way to many mistakes. Right now his negatives, out way his positives. I like him too when he is on, but man everytime he jacks up a three I cringe. His mid range game is decent, I see him hit a lot of those little floaters and those are fine. I think if we go get a point guard who has more experience and a High bball IQ, then we would be better off.

Shade
01-19-2007, 02:00 PM
Rondo is quicker than Tinsley, but just as poor a shooter and defender.

Bibby is past his prime, and his defense is even worse than Tinsley's.

OakMoses
01-19-2007, 02:01 PM
In a perfect world we'd somehow get Devin Harris, but we all know that's not happening.

Personally I like the idea of Derek Fisher. I thought the Pacers should have looked at him when Golden State traded him to Utah. He's a solid defender and probably a better 3 point shooter than anyone on the current roster, new guys included. He's got a bad contract, but I think TPTB have given up on the concept of cap space, so that's not much of an issue.

Chris Duhon might be an option.

There are some back-up type guys who would be good folks for us too look at as well. Tyronn Lue might be available from Atlanta. He's a 35% 3 point shooter and a high energy guy (something Tinsley will never be). Since Atlanta's not going anywhere, and he's not their PG of the future, we may be able to get him cheap. Carlos Arroyo is an option. He's not a great shooter, however, so that might not be such a good fit. Brevin Knight is injured and old, but is a definite pass-first pg.

There are some ideas. I'm not in love with any of them, but they'd all upgrade our situation.

Dr. Goldfoot
01-19-2007, 02:02 PM
As far as shooting is concerned, alot of the guys mentioned so far are just as bad as Tinsley. I'm not sure about all of the defensive skills they may possess, I just don't get to see enough of them play with the exception of when they play the Pacers.
Earl Watson for example is shooting .352 from the field and .256 from the arc.
Mike Bibby(who I doubt we'd be able to get anyways) is shooting .385 from the field and .289 from the arc.
Ridnour has a decent shot but what about his defense and did he lose his starting job to Watson or what's going on over there.
Rondo is a rookie and his shot isn't that impressive either .405 and .111 w/ a 1.8 ast/to.
Derek Fisher is 32 and has a career shooting % of .400 it's up to .412 this year. He's not the answer just another stop-gap.
Diener's shot looks ok in the 36 NBA games he's played but what about defense?And what about play making ability? He only has 34 assists in 36 career games.


The answer isn't to keep stocking up on other teams garbage or to make lateral moves. I'm not trying to discredit anyone's opinions. I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from.

odeez
01-19-2007, 02:04 PM
KIDD

RWB
01-19-2007, 02:05 PM
The big question is will Tins ever grow up? His ultimate downfall is that chip on his shoulder that messes with his thought process. Anytime he thinks the opposing guard is showing him up the Tinman has to retaliate by going one on one or some silly foul. He may not toss televisions, or throw punches in the stands, but he still has that passive anger that he can't control. No wonder many on here will not be happy until Tins and Harrison are gone.

Unclebuck
01-19-2007, 02:11 PM
Rondo is quicker than Tinsley, but just as poor a shooter and defender.

Bibby is past his prime, and his defense is even worse than Tinsley's.

You are correct Rondo is probably a worse shooter than Tinsley - at least right now. But his defense even as a rookie is much better than Tinsley's.

Bibby would be too expensive to obtain and he makes too much money.

Overall I'm willing to do a addition by subtraction trade for Tinsley. I'm willing to take about anyone. if a guy can dribble the ball, hit a shot, defend some and always plays hard - I'd take him

Frank Slade
01-19-2007, 02:21 PM
For the Short-Term ?

Cassell !:borg:

Dr. Goldfoot
01-19-2007, 02:33 PM
While there is something to addition by subtraction, at a certain point the subtraction starts to weigh heavily on the team's performance and the fans willingness to make exceptions.

We've been adding by subtracting for the last three years and what do we have to show for it? A team that is completely vanilla blah boring. Brad Miller turns into Pollard and back to Foster and possibly Troy Murphy. Reggie Miller turns into Stephen Jackson who turned into Marquis Daniels. Ron Artest turned into Peja who turned into Al who turned into Mike Dunleavy. JO and Tins are the constants but there backups have also been added to by subtracting we went from Travis Best to Kevin Ollie to Erick Strickland to AJ to Runi back to AJ and now we have Greene.

Hicks
01-19-2007, 02:36 PM
Ehh...personally, I would rather not bring back Fred Jones.

No thanks to Fred. I prefer someone who doesn't have to jump before he passes.

odeez
01-19-2007, 02:44 PM
For the Short-Term ?

Cassell !:borg:

nice one! :D

waxman
01-19-2007, 02:45 PM
I hated Derek Fisher as a Laker... but that isn't a bad option. He has big game/big shot making experience. He's a rugged defender and a solid shooter. He's not much of a playmaker...but Quis and Dunleavy could pick up in that area.

Duhon if he's available would be a solid option.

Evan_The_Dude
01-19-2007, 02:55 PM
I say nobody. Nobody is truely a realistic option for us right now. From what I saw of Marquis Daniels last night, I think he stands a good chance of playing some point for us behind Tinsley. Daniels can play the 2 and 3 positions as well. I'd bet money this is the same thing Carlisle is thinking. Remember, with Dunleavy on the team the point guard has less pressure on him to create because he can be one of two or three creators on the floor at the same time.

I expect to see Dunleavy on the floor alongside Daniels a lot. No point guard trade.

hoopsforlife
01-19-2007, 03:02 PM
I would buy out Tinsley and just use the guys we have now.

3rdStrike
01-19-2007, 03:08 PM
Lots of good thinking going on in this thread. This would be the perfect time to have a draft pick, and the P's may yet acquire one before draft day, but as for this season...

Jordan Farmar (LAL) - Lakers like Farmar but I doubt they could refuse the opportunity of adding Tinsley. Would likely get the P's a pick as well.

Steve Francis (NYK) - Supposedly rehabbing his knee but the Knicks don't want him, and Isaiah would love to get Tinsley back. Franchise has never been the best shooter, but he's an obvious upgrade over Tinsley IMO and would relish the chance to start again.

Delonte West OR Sebastian Telfair (BOS) - West would cost more but be the better fit. Telfair still looks like a bust, but he's only 21 years old and has the ability to pass well (now why he chooses not to is another story). Boston likes Rondo a lot and they won't have need for 3 PG to get a lot of minutes, with Gerald Green coming into his own at the SG position.


In any trade with Boston, we'd likely have to give up a center and trade Tinsley to another team (say, for a draft pick).

The most likely fit would be Francis in my opinion. The best fit would be West.

odeez
01-19-2007, 03:10 PM
I say nobody. Nobody is truely a realistic option for us right now. From what I saw of Marquis Daniels last night, I think he stands a good chance of playing some point for us behind Tinsley. Daniels can play the 2 and 3 positions as well. I'd bet money this is the same thing Carlisle is thinking. Remember, with Dunleavy on the team the point guard has less pressure on him to create because he can be one of two or three creators on the floor at the same time.

I expect to see Dunleavy on the floor alongside Daniels a lot. No point guard trade.

hmmm... you got me believing a bit in DUN & QUIS combo, then do we do a trade at all , in your opinion? We do have that exception, correct?

Robertmto
01-19-2007, 03:15 PM
I told u guys at the forum party that you should have traded us for Haywood and AD when they were runmored to be on the block.

But now that Haywood is actually playin well (did I just say that?) and Etan not bein healthy we are keepin him.

And AD is good enough to play for 10 mins - thats all we need out of him.

bnd45
01-19-2007, 03:16 PM
Delonte West would be my top choice.

Also, I don't agree with the idea that we are going to revert to dumping it into JO and standing around. I think we now have the right guys to run a little bit and at the very least space the floor in the half court, move the ball and get open shots. Remember Jackson couldn't run the floor and Harrington couldn't pass. Daniels can certainly run and pass and Granger is better than Harrington at every part of the game.

Throwing another name out there: Andre Miller.

JayRedd
01-19-2007, 03:19 PM
I personally wouldn't want Fisher, but I doubt he'd be available to us anyway. Sloan likes him as a back-up and also seems to like going with the Williams/Fish combo at times. Of course, he wouldn't be untouchable or nothing---I mean his is only Derek Fisher---but Utah doesn't really need any front court help with Booz, Okur, AK, Harpring and Millsap. They need someone that can start at the two-guard aside from Brewer/Giricek.

Some guys we could maybe get that I like:

Sam Cassell
Chris Duhon
Luke Ridnour
Brevin Knight
Jordan Farmar
Chucky Atkins
Thabo Sefolosha

Robertmto
01-19-2007, 03:20 PM
Delonte West would be my top choice.

Also, I don't agree with the idea that we are going to revert to dumping it into JO and standing around. I think we now have the right guys to run a little bit and at the very least space the floor in the half court, move the ball and get open shots. Remember Jackson couldn't run the floor and Harrington couldn't pass. Daniels can certainly run and pass and Granger is better than Harrington at every part of the game.

Throwing another name out there: Andre Miller.

actually you traded 3 reasonably good athletes (for that type of offense) for 3 stiffs. Its back to slogball.

Robertmto
01-19-2007, 03:20 PM
Do you guys think Donnie went after Earl B at all?

avoidingtheclowns
01-19-2007, 03:31 PM
there are a bunch of guys i like out there but two attainable names that come to mind...

Carlos Arroyo
Chris Duhon

i certainly wouldn't complain if we could steal devin harris or chauncey away

CableKC
01-19-2007, 03:39 PM
The only way that we can ship out Tinsley is if we package him with Foster, Granger or Shawne...while taking back an equally bad contract....which is pretty near impossible considering that Tinsley has a very bad contract to start with.

And to tell you the truth...I do not want to part with Foster, Granger or Shawned until I see how they fit in with DunDun and Murphy.

Unclebuck
01-19-2007, 04:10 PM
I don't think we can package Tinsley and Foster. That would be $11 Milion combined and none of the point guards we could get back anywhere near that amount.

Looks like Marcus Banks is available. I love his defense, but nothing else in his game is worth much. But I'll tell you, I'd take him over JT right now. That is how I feel about Jamaal right now.

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=14339&print=true

Chris Sheridan: Greetings from Motown, where the clock is ticking down toward the return of Ron Artest to the Palace for the first time since the brawl. I'll be there to cover it tomorrow night, and I'm expecting Eric Musselman to be there, too, but with the way the Kings are free-falling, you never know. Lots to chat about in the Association this week, from the GS-Indiana trade to the beatdown the Mavs put on the Lakers last night to Larry Miller's critical comments today regarding Andrei Kirilenko, so off we go ...




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Jon (Salt Lake City, Utah): What have you heard about the Jazz making a move for a two guard? I would love to see Morris Peterson in a Jazz uniform.

Chris Sheridan: I covered the jazz wednesday night against the Pistons and spend some time talking with assistant coach Phil Johnson and beat writer Tim Buckley about the state of the team, and the reading I got was that they were more determined to get AK's head on straight than they were in pulling off a trade for a two-guard. I brought up the possibility of an AK-Ray Allen trade, and the queston I kept hearing in return was: Would that move make them good enough to get past Dallas, Phoenix or San Antonio? Maybe, but that would be a heck of a long-term risk to take. There's a surprisingly crowded field of teams trying to find two-guards and combo guards (Detroit, Indiana, to name two), and that complicates the Jazz's ability to find someone for their backcourt.


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Mike (Detroit): Chris -- Sorry you had to experience the "Wrath of 'Sheed" yesterday from Rasheed Wallace. As a Pistons fan, I think it is time for Rasheed to go while he still has value. The ESPN Trade Machine verified that a trade of Rasheed Wallace, Nazr Mohammed, Antonio McDyess, and Carlos Delfino to Minnesota for Kevin Garnett and Marko Jaric would be approved. Is a reunion of KG and Flip in Motown a possibility? The Wolves need Big Men, The Pistons need a final piece, and the NBA needs for Garnett to win a ring. Agreed?

Chris Sheridan: All in a day's work, Mike. Lots of questions about that episode in the queue, so I'll encourage y'all to read my blog entry from last night, which focuses on the topic. \As for your trade idea, again, it'll come down to whether Kevin wants to leave, and I don;t seee him leaning that way until AFTER this season especially with the way the Wolves have been playing lately.


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mike (toledo ohio): So why are the cavs so inconsistent. I honestly thought that they may pull off a 5-2 roadtrip but now it seems unlikely that they finish the road trip above .500? And do you see them (the cavs) making any moves??

Chris Sheridan: asking the cavs to go 5-2 on that trip is asking an awful lot of a still immature team that's stll a long way from being a powerhouse. As for their trade possibilities, their lack of a No. 1 pick (they still owe it for the Jiri Welsch deal, I blv) is making it extra difficult to get anything done. expect Danny Ferry to try to buy low on someone at the deadline as he did last year in getting flip Murray for Mike Wilks. Heck, he can even get Murray again if he wants. The Pistons would probably give them Flip and Dale Davis for Varajao and a cap throw-in.


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Mike (Tempe): Do you see the Suns making a trade now that Kurt Thomas is out for 4-6 weeks? And are any teams so desparate for a guard that they'll take Marcus Banks off our hands? Thanks.

Chris Sheridan: The Suns are actively shopping Banks, who has to be considered the worst free agent signing of the offseason. If phonix wanted another point guard that bad, why didn;t they just keep Rajon Rondo when they drafted him? He's certainly a heck of a lot cheaper than Banks.

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Kyle (minneapolis): Puh-lease, sorry Mike in detroit, that is possibly the worst deal the twolves could make. Why trade KG for a malcontent, an aging role player with bad knees, a bench player, and carlos delfino? Ha, ridiculous!

Chris Sheridan: Agreed, Kyle. and with the Bulls willing to part with one of their good young players in a potential KG deal, the Pistons wouldn;t be able to compete.


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Joe (Houston): So just how old is Dikembe? And will an edict from David Stern really quiet the rumors?

Chris Sheridan: You have no idea how hard it is for me to stifle my one-liner on this, but out of respect for Dikembe I'll be Quiet Chris on this one. when it comes to dikembe, we should all be talking more about how agelessly he's been playing, and about the significance of what he did by building a $15 million hospital in the Congo. There are sick 10-year-olds in Africa who are going to be cured at that hospital and will go on to live long, long lives, during which they can joke about Mutombo's age if they choose once they reach 40, too. By then, Dik probably won\'t mind.


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Billy (phoenix): Do you see any possibilities of the suns trading to get a player like mike miller to boost their roster even more

Chris Sheridan: Well, the handcuffs are off Jerry West now that the sale of the Grizzlies has fallen through, and Mike is in high demand. But if you think The logo will give him up for anything less than a lottery pick AND a young player, you'd be mistaken. That being said, the Suns actually have the assets (three first-rounders, including Atlanta's) to do such a trade, but with James Jones playing so much better lately since the leather ball came back, I don;t think the suns would feel that sacraficing one of those picks would be worth the price.


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Oliver (NY): Would Ray Allen for AK-47 get Utah to contend ?!?!?! Was that a serious question ? That move undoubtedly gives them a shot for the title, Allen is a veteran, with a deadly stroke who would spread the floor and make Boozer, deron and Okur that much harder to guard. A no brainer. BTW, why is Pierce not headed to the Bulls yet for Thomas, Knicks 1st rounder, P.J. and if they are lucky Gordon ??

Chris Sheridan: To your first point, do you really think that would make them a title contender? They're not very deep, and they have very little interior defense now, even with AK. If they dealt him, they'd have even less. Now, if they could do a Ray allen-AK deal simultaneuos to a Nazr Mohammed-Gordan Giricek trade, that might change things. On Pierce, his foot's still in a cast. You don't trade for guys with their foot in a cast until that cast comes off and you see if the guy can still play. Plus your price is way too high.


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Jerry(LA): Chris, What do you think the Lakers can do to catch Phoenix and Dallas and possibly challenge for a title? Do they need a better rebounder, or will the return of L.O and Kwame make the difference?

Chris Sheridan: I donlt think it's a question of catching Phoenix for the Lakers, because that appears less and less likely as the suns keep piling up wins. It's more a matter of do they have enough to beat Phoenix or dallas in a seven-game series, and they actually might if Kwame Brown and lamar Odom are healthy when the playoffs arrive. I see them standing pat at the deadline,


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Josh (Irvine, CA): Why is no one mentioning that the LAKERS were playing the Mavs IN DALLAS the night after beating the Spurs IN SAN ANTONIO? Does the media really have that short of a memory? How many teams in this league could have even managed a split without 2 members of their starting front court? Also, what team in the league would've beaten a rested Mavs team on the 2nd of a back-to-back period?

Chris Sheridan: This will be my weekly "I'll let this post speak for itself" post.


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charlie (chi): pistons lookin for any more trades?

Chris Sheridan: Yes, dale Davis and Nazr Mohammed are being activel shopped. Check out my piece on the Pistons going up this afternoon on the site. I talked at length yesterday with Joe Dumars about that topic and various others, as he was gracious enough to let me second-guess him on several of his recent moves.


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Dwayne (SF): Chris, what are folks around the league saying about the GS/Indiana trade? Are the W's a playoff team now?

Chris Sheridan: There's a lot of shock that Indiana gave up Harrington. Go check out Bob Hill's comments in today's Seattle papers. He was flabbergasted.


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Ian: (Toronto, ON): With Toronto creeping towards .500, and Jones getting no playing time. Wouldn't it make sense to try and deal him, instead of Mo Pete, or is there absolutely no market value for him.

Chris Sheridan: Colangelo's asking price on Mo P has been way too high (Maggette, McDyess) which is why he hasn't moved him. Mo will be a free agent over the summer, so nobody is going to give up very much when they know they'll have a shot at him in a couple of months for free. as for Jones, h hs less value than Mo P, so the raps are better off waiting on him and keeping him as an insurance policy behind Parker for now.


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Cos (Sparta, NJ): Chris, I cant seem to get this question answered by anyone. If Oden decides not to go pro, can a team draft him anyway, like Red drafting Bird a year early? And if so, do you think a team would take the risk?

Chris Sheridan: You cannot draft a player who is not draft eligible. They changed that rule a long time ago after Red pulled that one off.


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Jeremy (Ottawa): What do the Nuggets need to be a contender? Is there anything available for them to get them there? Or is it possible for Nene to regain his form, for Camby to stay healthy, maybe for Kenyon Martin to come back for the playoffs, and then would they not need anything?

Chris Sheridan: There's a guy named Carmelo on that team whose impending return will make them a whole different team. Throw out everything they've done since the Iverson trade. They're merely treading water until they get reasonably whole again.


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Chris (LA): Any possibility of a team with a top 2 pick in this upcoming draft trading it?

Chris Sheridan: No. Absolutely no. In the Kevin Durant draft? You'd have to be crazy to give up a shot at him.


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tim(ny): Chris, do you see any of the following stars moved by the deadline : KG, JO, Gasol, Allen, Carter, Lewis, Bibby, Kidd ?

Chris Sheridan: Some are certainly more possible than others, so let me rank your guys in terms of likelihood, highest to lowest: Lewis, Bibby, Carter, Allen, Kidd, Gasol, JO, KG.


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mike (ill): u said nazr and davis r being mentioned for trades, what would be an ideal trade with them?

Chris Sheridan: Joe D is looking for a guard, and since it's rare to find a GM willing to move a big for a small, he'll be able to get something done.


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Ryan (NYC): In response to your "Ill let this post speak for itself" line.....the translation is I DON'T want to say anything good about this Lakers team because I don't want to have to compliment Kobe Bryant for the job he has done carry a team without LO and Kwame Brown

Chris Sheridan: No, it's nothing like that, Ryan (kobe was my MVP pick in the preseason, BTW). Sometimes I just let posts speak for themselves because there's nothing really for me to add to what a poster says. There are hundreds and hundreds of posts in the queue, and a lot of posters make good points, and I'm in a position to facillitate those posts getting posted. So stop hating on Sheridan.


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JJ>PR: Why not trading McDyess instead of Mohamed.. Does he have some market left?

Chris Sheridan: Joe told me he's not trading McDyess, Sheed, or Maxiell. If he wanted to trade McDyess, there would be no shortage of suitors.


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Mike (San Luis Obispo): Stop whining about back to backs,Faker fans. That 30 minute private plane ride from San Antonio to Dallas must have been real bad. Did I mention the Mavs are 9-0 in back to backs this year? Enough excuses.

Chris Sheridan: Touche from the Mavs' side of the debate.


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Travis (SLC): What are your thoughts on AK's game and Larry Millers comments about him yesterday? Is AK pouting or just in a slump?

Chris Sheridan: AK is having a very hard time getting used to the fact that the Jazz do not need him to be the scorer he was the past couple of years when they stunk. and i take miller's comments to mean that he's peobably a lot more open to the idea of trading AK than he's ever been.


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fred(dc): Where do you see Gerald Wallace and Andres Nocioni playing next year ?

Chris Sheridan: Wallace's injury is a killer to his market value, so that's a tough cal. Let's see what he does over the last couple months after he gets healthy. As for Nocioni, Paxson told me there's no way any team could make Nocioni an offer that he would not match. So I see him in Chicago long, long-term

Chris Sheridan: That's a wrap for today, folks. We'll reconvene a week from now. A good weekend to all.

Mr. Sobchak
01-19-2007, 04:13 PM
Not so much point guards but I think we should go after either Fransico Garcia, Quincy Douby (the person I wanted the pacers to draft originally), or Ronnie Price from Sacramento. All three can play the 2 and they seem to have a logjam there with Kevin Martin.

Skaut_Ech
01-19-2007, 04:22 PM
The big question is will Tins ever grow up? His ultimate downfall is that chip on his shoulder that messes with his thought process. Anytime he thinks the opposing guard is showing him up the Tinman has to retaliate by going one on one or some silly foul. He may not toss televisions, or throw punches in the stands, but he still has that passive anger that he can't control. No wonder many on here will not be happy until Tins and Harrison are gone.

Exactly my feeling. Unfortunately the reality of the situation is that we'd be hard pressed to find a talent as good as Tinsley, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't/can't trade him. We survined the loss of talented, but goofy, Artest. We'll survive the loss of talented. but knuckleheaded Jackson and we can sure rebound from Temper Tantrum Tinsley. Chemistry is very underated. A heady mix produces better result that just having a talented guy.

Admittedly, the picking are slim. If you look around the league as it stands right now, there's not a lot out there, but there IS something out there. I'll list them in likehood of happening, or fiscal feasibilty-

:sonics:There have been rumors for quite some time now that Hill doesn't much care for Ridnour. That gives us a real foothold. We know for a fact that he doesn't like how green his centers are. He wants a veteran player to man the post. We're solid on bigs, BUT we could use a project guy, much as we did with Dampier, when we had the Davis boys and Smits taking the big's minutes. Fiscally, a trade of Tinsley for Ridnour/Wilkins/Sene, as it's core, works out. We'd probably have to throw in a low salary guy like Orien or Maceo to balance things out, but such a trade works financially and could be a possibility. You could replace Sene with Petro or Swift as a guy to develop for down the road.

:clippers:This one is obvious for me. There has been a bunch of interest in Maggette and rumors of him being shopped. Cassell doesn't like playing second fiddle. Magette/Cassell for Tinsley/Dunleavy works out perfectly, financially. In Cassell, we'd get a veteran PG who can both shoot the three, then change gears and distribute very well, but he's a strong defender. Is it a good long term fix. No. But for a 2-3 years window, I wouldn't have the least problem with it, if it meant getting rid of Tinsley. I know a lot of folks covet Cory on the forum, so it could be a popular trade for fans.

:lakers:The Lakers don't have a PG who's talent is comparable to the makeup of the team. Farmar is making great strides, but they could use a more consistant, veteran presence, since Odom, Walton and Kobe are peaking right now to take advantage of their window. Unfortunately, there is a big disparity in Jamaal's and Farmar's salaries. The easiest way to make it happen without a firesale on LA's part would be Tinsley/Harrison for Radmanovic/Framar. I think this is feasible, but not probable.

:nets:Okay, this is really not likely to happen, but I think it needs to mentioned. There has been acknowledgement from TPTB in NJ, that Kidd is avaialble. They also are desperate for big men. The common thinking is that you have to give a superstar to GET a superstar. That being said, an arguement could be made that NJ could remake their team and maintain their talent level with a Kidd for Tinsley/Marquis/Murphy trade. Essentially what you would be doing is getting a hug upgrade at PG for us, while we could play a big line-up of Dunleavy at SG, Granger at SF, JO at PF & maintain a Foster/Harrison tandem at C. Works for NJ, too, with a lineup of Tinsley/Carter/Jefferson/Murphy/Nenad. A win-win trade for both teams, but not very likely. Too big of a trade on the heels of our recent blockbuster.

:thepistonJust bears mentioning that Billups can opt out of his contract and become a free agent after this year. Would he...Could he...play for us given the past bad blood between our teams? Would we want him to? Right now, a straight up trade works financially. A sign and trade?

:grizzlies The Grizz organization wants to make some moves. They're unhappy with their team's make-up, as were we and GS. When you look at their PG, you've got Stoudamire, Chucky Atkins and Kyle Lowry. to me, a push for Lowry woud be worth it. He's extremely quick. I guess i'd compare him to Sebastian Telfair, if I had to, but with much, much better D. I think he's a hidden gem. Grizz may not want to wait for him to develop and giev their other optiojns at PG, they may be amenable to a trade. Of course, it's the same situation as LA, where someone else needs to be thrown in. This situatin would be a step back in the short term for us, but I think it would pay off very shortly down the road. I find this one the most remote of possibilities.

Most other teams, it would be too hard financially, or involve so many players, that it would turn into a crap shoot, or the other team may not want to make a move due, to being in a good place.

Of course, I'm not expert, but that's about all I see out there in terms of trading a PG for a PG.

CableKC
01-19-2007, 04:58 PM
No matter now much teams would want to move or dump their PGs...I really don't see them wanting Tinsley given his injury history ( which he really is trying to work on ) and his very long-term contract.

The best time to have shipped him out would have been alongside Harrington and SJax.....but now that they are gone....I really do not see Tinsley being moved unless he is somehow shipped out with one of our other assets ( JONeal and Granger...which isn't going to happen anytime soon, Foster and Shawne...which I am reluctant to do ).

3rdStrike
01-19-2007, 05:07 PM
I'd like to say a few words on Ridnour, Arroyo and Duhon.

Firstly, Duhon is a career .380 shooter, .350 from 3pt range. This season he is shooting .390 and .315 from 3pt range. Why would anyone want him? Tinsley is a better shooter and that's all you need to know about Chris Duhon.

Ridnour is a bit more intruiging, but he's another guy whose abilities aren't translating into stats for whatever reason. And that concerns me. He's certainly available, though.

Carlos Arroyo is too inconsistent to be worth trading for at this point.


Skaut, I too like Kyle Lowry, but if the P's go that route (developing PG) then Tinsley stays through the season because you can't just throw him into the starting rotation with no fallback.

naptownmenace
01-19-2007, 05:11 PM
Chris Duhon would be perfect but the salaries don't match. Delonte West if he's healthy is an upgrade defensively and offensively. I think Mike Miller would be a nice addition although he's not much better defensively.

Anthony Johnson would've been a great PG to have now. He was pretty good offensively and defensively he wasn't perfect but he didn't get killed on screen and roll plays like Tinsley.

It'll be interesting to see how Dunleavy fits in and whether he can fit into a point-forward type of role.

Coop
01-19-2007, 05:16 PM
I like any of these guys:

Randy Foye (hasn't been mentioned yet)
Chris Duhon
Delonte West
Luke Ridnour
Kyle Lowry

pig norton
01-19-2007, 05:51 PM
Who's up for getting back Sarunas Jasikevicius?

Fireball Kid
01-19-2007, 07:16 PM
Delonte West. He and Marquis Daniels would make a pretty good back court.

maragin
01-19-2007, 07:20 PM
Andre Miller
Jason Kidd (help him get away from his ex)

There's alot of other guys out there, but I don't know if they would be an immediate upgrade to Tinsley, who knows our system, and even plays in it 80% of the time.

speakout4
01-19-2007, 08:06 PM
Even just a few months after the draft I can confidently say that Shawne Williams was a much better pick than Rondo. Watching him plenty in Boston, it has become clear that he is a horrible shooter and ballhandler and is not at all what we need right now.

Also, like Hicks said, shoot and defend is key. I'm still holding out for Delonte West. The Celts are not nearly as high on him now as they were and the man can shoot and defend. He can also play basic PG. If you pair him Marquis or Dunleavy you have two capable ball handlers that are also fairly intelligent players.

Exactly trade Harrison for West and throw in someone else to match salaries. Tinsley and West would certainly get the job done. Also play Shawne more.

BoomBaby33
01-19-2007, 08:32 PM
Jarrett Jack - Portland. I have always liked him!

Can someone check salaries on a Tins for Jack trade? I'd do it even if we had to include David!

Jermaniac
01-19-2007, 08:33 PM
The Blazers are not going to trade Jarrett Jack.

Alpolloloco
01-19-2007, 08:44 PM
Who's up for getting back Sarunas Jasikevicius?

You know I wouldn't mind .....

But seriously, here are a few names:

Kirk Hinrich - pretty untouchable (is only going in a trade for JO?)
Mike James - tradeable (Minny needs a big, Tinsley/Foster for James/Jaric?)
Delonte West - tradeable (Celtics could use a big too, Tinsley/Foster/McLeod for West/Ratliff?
Andre Miller - pretty tradeable (Tinsley/Foster for Miller/Hunter?)

Maybe only James and West are possible options, but are they that much better than Tinsley to give up on Foster?

BoomBaby33
01-19-2007, 08:56 PM
The Blazers are not going to trade Jarrett Jack.

Why not, it looks like they could use a change, and maybe if we sweeten the deal with dunleavy and / or david?

Besides, if we are serious about getting a better point guard, he is one that will make us better. Alot of these other PG's that are being mentioned are a lateral move to Tins IMO.

I mean come on, we raked the blazers once, why not twice? :D :D :D

Jermaniac
01-19-2007, 09:18 PM
David they dont need, the just drafted a center #2 in the draft.

Dunleavy they dont need they drafted Webster in the top 5 last year.

They are a really young team, building for the future, trading Jarrett Jack for Tinsley does nothing for them.

BoomBaby33
01-19-2007, 09:25 PM
Jarrett Jack - Portland. I have always liked him!

Can someone check salaries on a Tins for Jack trade? I'd do it even if we had to include David!

OK, i figured out how to do it (via realgm trade checker). Here is a scenario:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Indiana Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Tinsley_Jamaal_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
12.4 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 6.3 apg in 30.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Foster_Jeff_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jeff Foster
6-11 C from Southwest Texas State
5.1 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 24.6 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/LaFrentz_Raef_bos.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Raef LaFrentz
6-11 C from Kansas
1.6 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 8.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Jack_Jarrett_por.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jarrett Jack
6-3 PG from Georgia Tech
12.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 5.6 apg in 35.0 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: -3.4 ppg, -8.4 rpg, and -1.2 apg.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=500 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_bl>Portland Trade Breakdown</TD></TR><TR><TD class=body_bl_np width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Outgoing</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/LaFrentz_Raef_bos.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Raef LaFrentz
6-11 C from Kansas
1.6 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.2 apg in 8.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Jack_Jarrett_por.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jarrett Jack
6-3 PG from Georgia Tech
12.5 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 5.6 apg in 35.0 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_dt colSpan=2>Incoming</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Tinsley_Jamaal_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jamaal Tinsley
6-1 PG from Iowa State
12.4 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 6.3 apg in 30.9 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=75>http://www3.realgm.com/images/nba/4.2/profiles/photos/2006/Foster_Jeff_ind.jpg</TD><TD class=tdpad vAlign=top width=425>Jeff Foster
6-11 C from Southwest Texas State
5.1 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 0.7 apg in 24.6 minutes</TD></TR><TR><TD class=title_gr colSpan=2>Change in team outlook: +3.4 ppg, +8.4 rpg, and +1.2 apg.

IM afraid that Ike will be taking time from Foster anyway, with Troy taking over the starting center position. I would hate to see Jeff go, but he has been prone to injury. Just like the Al, Jack for Dunleavy, Murphy trade - you gotta give up something to get something, and we have the depth.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
This puts the rotation at:

PG Jack
SG Daniels
SF Danny
PF JO
C Troy

Second unit:
PG Oriene / DA / McCloud
SG Dunleavy / Rawle
SF Shawne / Daniels
PF Ike / Danny
C Maceo / JO / Raef / David

Edit for RealGM reference

skyfire
01-19-2007, 09:26 PM
As much as I'd love to see Delonte West in a Pacers uniform, i'm not so sure its gonna happen. Before he went out for the last 4 games with a bruised back, he was the Celts starting PG, playing 30+ mins a game. I'm not sure whether Ainge sees West as the long term option at the point but he definately seems to have beaten out Telfair and Rondo for that spot. Though if the Celts think they can get healthy and make a push for the Atlantic Crown, stranger things have happened.

rexnom
01-19-2007, 09:28 PM
David they dont need, the just drafted a center #2 in the draft.

Dunleavy they dont need they drafted Webster in the top 5 last year.

They are a really young team, building for the future, trading Jarrett Jack for Tinsley does nothing for them.
Especially when Jack is good, has potential, doesn't have a shady background (something big in Portland), and doesn't get injured easily. Those things too. But otherwise I'm sure Portland would love the trade.

CableKC
01-19-2007, 10:00 PM
Its not optimal....but Bibby+Garcia for Tinsley+Foster works. Defensively....its a complete wash....but at least we slightly upgrade our PG spot with a better scoring PG :shrug:

thunderbird1245
01-19-2007, 11:09 PM
For the record, the point guard I want is in Toronto.

PG Jose Calderon is young, quick, has a very affordable contract, and has potential to grow into the kind of point guard we all want. I like his quickness, his ballhandling ability, and he is on the same team as TJ Ford, who likely will continue to get more minutes than Calderon.

We could likely deal with Toronto, as they are remaking their roster just like we are. They are near playoff level, although they still arent truly a good team yet. They also would likely include the expiring contract of Mo Pete, if we wanted to do something on a bigger scale.

Jose Calderon is my first choice, and really the clear cut winner in my book. I like Andre Miller too but he has a big contract and isnt that great a shooter either, although his defense is much better than we are used to. Mike Bibby is getting older and has a huge contract, and is more of a shooting point guard than I personally prefer. I like Rajon Rondo from Boston, but I think his upside is limited to a Jacque Vaughn type player. Kidd is too old and expensive. Ridnour doesnt play good enough defense for my taste, although he'd be an overall upgrade. TJ Ford, Chris Paul, and Deron Williams we have no chance at. Fisher is too old and limited. Tyrone Lue sucks. Livingston is untouchable. Ther just arent that many available choices that fit our budget and stayle of play, other than Calderon.

There also may be some other European guard out there in the world someplace that we dont know about yet.

GetMoney
01-19-2007, 11:53 PM
still baffled that we passed on Marcus Williams in the draft last year knowin damn well Tinsley is liable to get hurt hoppin off the bus

mike_D
01-20-2007, 02:36 AM
I like any of these guys:

Randy Foye (hasn't been mentioned yet)
Chris Duhon
Delonte West
Luke Ridnour
Kyle Lowry

I would have loved to have Ridnour before the trade.I think he would have been a perfect compliment with the parts we had.Right now I don't think he fits(then again he may fit in better then Tinsley but thats not saying much).Mainly because his defense is so bad it would be hard to play Ridnour and Dunlevy together in the backcourt.

With the addition of Dunlevy hes basically your pg on the offensive end so we need to get players who fit with Dunlevy and to a certain degree Daniels. If West is available the Pacers should make every effort to get him.Hes a quick on the ball defender,good shooter and a good ball handler, Lowry and Foye are nice players and would fit in well but I doubt there respective teams will trade them. Duhon while a rugged defender is just not a good enough shooter to play alongside Daniels and Dunlevy.

I think D.Fisher though would be a nice complement to the guards we already have and yes I know hes not the most talented pg in the world and not the sexy name but he does the three things that we need from that guard spot and that is he can stay in front of his man on defense, he can hit a open shot and he's a solid ball handler.Normally I wouldn't think of Fisher as a starting caliber pg but with this team and considering all the options available he may be the best fit.

JayRedd
01-20-2007, 02:36 AM
Nobody's trading a PG that we want straight for Tinsley. He contract is too long and he's viewed as fairly average, a bad contract, injury-prone and a malcontent.

To get another starting-caliber point, we might be able to package Tins with Shawne and Foster though. Would leave us with a rotation of:

New PG/Darrell/Green
Quis/Danny/Rawle
Danny/Dunleavy
Murphy/Diogu/Baston
JO/Harrison

Still would need a better SG option IMO, but it'd be one step closer to where we're trying to get.

CableKC
01-20-2007, 03:15 AM
For the record, the point guard I want is in Toronto.

PG Jose Calderon is young, quick, has a very affordable contract, and has potential to grow into the kind of point guard we all want. I like his quickness, his ballhandling ability, and he is on the same team as TJ Ford, who likely will continue to get more minutes than Calderon.

We could likely deal with Toronto, as they are remaking their roster just like we are. They are near playoff level, although they still arent truly a good team yet. They also would likely include the expiring contract of Mo Pete, if we wanted to do something on a bigger scale.
We do not have anybody ( short of Foster....which I am reluctant to give up given the possible need to have another defensive Big Man to play next to Murphy and Ike other then JONeal ) that Toronto would want in exchange for Jose.


Nobody's trading a PG that we want straight for Tinsley. He contract is too long and he's viewed as fairly average, a bad contract, injury-prone and a malcontent.
This is the main problem that I think that we have in trying to acquire a new PG....nobody wants to commit that much money to a PG that has that long of a contract and is that injury prone. At best...if DW/Bird is able to move him...it will likely have to include Foster and/or Shawne....where we make a lateral move at the PG spot.

I would much rather play through the rest of the season with Tinsley at the point to see how well we really do with the additions that we acquired. I wouldn't be surprised if Tinsley plays the rest of the season ( mainly cuz we have no takers on his contract ), ups his trade value as much as possible so that we can wait til the offseason to move him.

Jose Slaughter
01-20-2007, 04:29 AM
I'm going to throw out a name that hasn't been mentioned yet.

Marko Jaric

As I recall he is on the outs on Minnesota.

He is a combo guard that would fit in with our team better than he has for the Timberwolves. Not much of a playmaker but with Daniels & Dunleavy, I don't view that as a big minus. He has a far better shooting percentage than Tinsley & is a superior defender.

Link to his NBA.com stats.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/marko_jaric/index.html

The contract, according to Hoops Hype are very similar.

Tinsley is listed at 5.8 with 4 more years. http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/indiana.htm

Jaric at 5.5 with another 4 years. http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm

That would leave the T-Wolves with Tinsley, Mike James & Troy Hudson at point.

On paper this would be a downgrade in talent but on the court, where we actually play the game, I feel it would be a great deal.

mike_D
01-20-2007, 04:33 AM
I'm going to throw out a name that hasn't been mentioned yet.

Marko Jaric

As I recall he is on the outs on Minnesota.

He is a combo guard that would fit in with our team better than he has for the Timberwolves. Not much of a playmaker but with Daniels & Dunleavy, I don't view that as a big minus. He has a far better shooting percentage than Tinsley & is a superior defender.

Link to his NBA.com stats.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/marko_jaric/index.html

The contract, according to Hoops Hype are very similar.

Tinsley is listed at 5.8 with 4 more years. http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/indiana.htm

Jaric at 5.5 with another 4 years. http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/minnesota.htm

That would leave the T-Wolves with Tinsley, Mike James & Troy Hudson at point.

On paper this would be a downgrade in talent but on the court, where we actually play the game, I feel it would be a great deal.

I forgot about Jaric, I agree offensively he's a good fit but from what I've seen of him defensively he's not that much of an upgrade over Tinsley.I could be wrong on that though since I haven't watched many Timberwolves games over the past year.

Raskolnikov
01-20-2007, 04:55 AM
If he'd get back healthy, I don't think getting Steve Francis would be such a bad idea. He should soon be bought out by the Knicks. Pick him up (I have no idea about any contract issues), trade Tinsley for a capable SG, and our backcourt problems are (hopefully) (partially) solved.

Then again it might as well be (a bad idea), plus I don't see TPTB going after him.

McKeyFan
01-20-2007, 08:14 AM
For the record, the point guard I want is in Toronto.

PG Jose Calderon is young, quick, has a very affordable contract, and has potential to grow into the kind of point guard we all want. I like his quickness, his ballhandling ability, and he is on the same team as TJ Ford, who likely will continue to get more minutes than Calderon.

We could likely deal with Toronto, as they are remaking their roster just like we are. They are near playoff level, although they still arent truly a good team yet. They also would likely include the expiring contract of Mo Pete, if we wanted to do something on a bigger scale.

Jose Calderon is my first choice, and really the clear cut winner in my book. I like Andre Miller too but he has a big contract and isnt that great a shooter either, although his defense is much better than we are used to. Mike Bibby is getting older and has a huge contract, and is more of a shooting point guard than I personally prefer. I like Rajon Rondo from Boston, but I think his upside is limited to a Jacque Vaughn type player. Kidd is too old and expensive. Ridnour doesnt play good enough defense for my taste, although he'd be an overall upgrade. TJ Ford, Chris Paul, and Deron Williams we have no chance at. Fisher is too old and limited. Tyrone Lue sucks. Livingston is untouchable. Ther just arent that many available choices that fit our budget and stayle of play, other than Calderon.

There also may be some other European guard out there in the world someplace that we dont know about yet.

And your thoughts on Delonte West?

BoomBaby33
01-20-2007, 09:52 AM
If he'd get back healthy, I don't think getting Steve Francis would be such a bad idea. He should soon be bought out by the Knicks. Pick him up (I have no idea about any contract issues), trade Tinsley for a capable SG, and our backcourt problems are (hopefully) (partially) solved.

Then again it might as well be (a bad idea), plus I don't see TPTB going after him.

NOOOOOOOOOOO! I'd rather have Marbury, than stev-me franchise, if we trade with New York. And besides, as much as Bird and Isiah get along, do you really think they would be willing to even talk. Whats more, I never, and i repeat never, want to see us trade anything with New York ... unless of course, if we can rake them over the coals like we did Portland in the JO trade. That would be like a sin in Indiana, and as bad as it would be to trade anything with Detroit. Those are our 2 biggest hated teams.

Mourning
01-20-2007, 10:05 AM
IF Dunleavy Jr. get's the starters job at SG we get a good ballhandler for the position, but a BAD perimeter defender and not such a great shooter. Well Tinsley's besides not beying a very good shooter also is pretty bad at defence, so who will pick up the opposing teams prime perimeter threat then? Don't talk to me about Oriene or McCleod because they won't be in the game for 30+ minutes.

If DunLeavy Jr. starts then I expect us to go after an above average defender and decent shooter or we REALLY will be in trouble. Good thing is that that player doesn't have to be a superb ball handler, just a decent one for the position as we have DunLeavy Jr. and Quis who can both help in that department.

We need to desperately improve our perimeter defence. There's no question about that IMO. Followed closely by shooting range from downtown, because Mike can hit it from there, but Quis can't and we can't have a PG that will have to come out when Quis comes in, especially since Quis might be seeying his minutes rise.

I could be wrong, I don't know, but what would I be missing then?

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

hoopsforlife
01-20-2007, 10:41 AM
I believe Tinsley will elevate his game with the addition of these new guys. Dunlavey and Murphy both are good at setting picks and TInsley will feed off this. He will drive the lane more to get closer into his shooting range. He is pretty good at that close inside 8- 10 footer.

Getting open inside will open JO for a pass to his spot. JO knocks down a 18' shot extremely well. If thats not open Murphy will be.

This trade will make the Pacers a much better team. I am excited about this team again.

Raskolnikov
01-20-2007, 11:48 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOO! I'd rather have Marbury, than stev-me franchise, if we trade with New York. And besides, as much as Bird and Isiah get along, do you really think they would be willing to even talk. Whats more, I never, and i repeat never, want to see us trade anything with New York ... unless of course, if we can rake them over the coals like we did Portland in the JO trade. That would be like a sin in Indiana, and as bad as it would be to trade anything with Detroit. Those are our 2 biggest hated teams.
I'm not talking about a trade. There are currently talks between the Knicks and Francis about a buy out of his contract. So we could pick him up after that. It would definitely be a risk, but one that might propel us towards an eastern conference contender. If Francis finds his old game back (of course his knees have to be healthy in order to do so; that's another if...), whilst focusing on the playmaking and slashing part of the game, he could be the much needed reliable PG the Pacers have been looking for.

Then again, I'd prefer a PG that doesn't hold the bal a lot, doesn't stagnate the offense, improves the ball movement and can effectively go to the basket. Maybe there are better options to achieve this than Francis...I don't know.


This trade will make the Pacers a much better team. I am excited about this team again.
I totally feel the same.

But I do believe we need a more reliable PG.

Mourning, can't Danny defend the opposing team's best perimeter player?

Los Angeles
01-20-2007, 11:53 AM
Haven't read the whole thread yet, but I want to throw Quinton Ross' name into the mix. I don't know much about him, but he's suddenly exploding for the Clippers.

Anyone know more about this guy?

LG33
01-20-2007, 12:26 PM
I'd take anyone who plays point for the Orlando Magic...

rexnom
01-20-2007, 12:31 PM
Haven't read the whole thread yet, but I want to throw Quinton Ross' name into the mix. I don't know much about him, but he's suddenly exploding for the Clippers.

Anyone know more about this guy?
Just the fact that he's made Corey Maggette pretty much expendable and is a SF, which we don't really need.

Los Angeles
01-20-2007, 12:42 PM
Just the fact that he's made Corey Maggette pretty much expendable and is a SF, which we don't really need.
No, he's definitely not an exclusive 3. I've read reports that claim he can play 1, 2 and 3.

Mourning
01-20-2007, 12:42 PM
Mourning, can't Danny defend the opposing team's best perimeter player?

Danny is a pretty decent defender with the "potential" and build to get a very good defender, he isn't yet though. And, personally, I don't like the idea of Danny playing SG at all.

It would make it even worse for me if his main role would be defending the opposing teams main backcourt threat. Why? Well, simply because it would take Danny further away from the basket when he proved he can be a pretty damn good rebounder last year. I also doubt he has the speed and agility to keep up with defending the top SG's and IF he can then a lot more energy he uses will be taken up by defending those guys then defending the top SF's IMO which is what I where I want to see him play and against whom I want to see him play.

I know Quis can defend some of those smaller PG's and SG's, but the idea of moving Danny to SG when he's really PERFECT for the SF position almost makes me ill. Danny is a SF, not a SG.

One great defender and one decent one for three positions (SF, SG and PG) is not enough. They won't play 40+ minutes, so we would have below average defenders about half of the time of the total minutes we hand out at SF, SG and PG. Sure, Orien and McLeod might relieve it a bit, but I don't see them playing more then 10-15 minutes to be honest.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

rexnom
01-20-2007, 01:30 PM
No, he's definitely not an exclusive 3. I've read reports that claim he can play 1, 2 and 3.
He plays 2 and 3 mostly. Even if he does handle the ball it's with Livingston or Cassell in there, two guys the caliber of which we don't have.

Trust me, Ross is not the solution to our problems, even if he is a great guy to have on your team.

3rdStrike
01-20-2007, 02:53 PM
I really think Francis would be a better fit than most people assume. I think he'd cherish the opportunity to start again and play his heart out.

Jermaniac
01-20-2007, 02:57 PM
I really think Francis would be a better fit than most people assume. I think he'd cherish the opportunity to start again and play his heart out.I agree. And we would only be signing him for a year so we are not committing a large amount of money to him that we would be stuck with him. If he causes problems he would be out of here in what 2-3 months. If he works out we have a PG who was a all star in this league.

avoidingtheclowns
01-20-2007, 10:47 PM
if he's bought out and we could get him for the vet's min. that might be a risk worth taking. i dunno, im not thrilled about the guy but to have someone like that at a min. price would essentially make up for MDJ and TMs contracts ... sorta ...

vapacersfan
01-20-2007, 10:54 PM
I would not have a problem with Francis, esp. if it is short term

Jermaniac
01-20-2007, 10:55 PM
I wonder if we could get Jamaal Tinsley on this team.

vapacersfan
01-20-2007, 11:04 PM
I wonder if we could get Jamaal Tinsley on this team.

As long as its Tinsley and not "Mel-Mel The Abuser" then I am all for it ;)