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Jose Slaughter
01-19-2007, 03:44 AM
I was watching the video of the press conference with Walsh & Bird talking about the trade.

At about the 9 minute mark Bird said something that really jumped out at me. This is from the transcript available on the Pacers NBA.com site.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/transcript_070117.html

Here is the question that was ask, with Birds responce. The bolded area was his comment that I thought should have been jumped on by the guys from the press that were there.

Q: Was the New Jersey game a last straw and made you realize that something had to be done?

Bird: I think a couple weeks ago we started to see a couple of things that weren’t working out the way we thought they would. We had to play Al at the three and he’s never really done that as he usually plays the four. The thing that disappointed me the most was our inability to stop the ball-penetration as well as our lack of rebounding. If you can’t rebound, you can’t control the boards, and you can’t do the things you want to do. Against Dallas, we were one rebound away from winning that game, but we didn’t get it. Dunleavy is a great rebounder; Murphy is a good rebounder, and Ike – that’s what he does, so hopefully we don’t have to have this conversation again, but we have to rebound the basketball.

Walsh & Bird were all over becoming a better rebouding team with this trade. But nothing has been done about what Bird was most disappointed about, our inability to stop the ball.

McKeyFan
01-19-2007, 06:01 AM
Well, he did trade away his pet project--Runi.

But, I do agree (and hope) that these comments you've highlighted mean Tinsley will be traded for better perimeter defense from the pg.

Because you are right, the thing he is most disappointed about was not addressed in the big trade (except marginally by getting rid of Saras.)

Seed
01-19-2007, 07:00 AM
I think Bird's comment relates to the lack of team defense, and rebounding effort. We got a better interior presence now, which hopefully will also help with the penetrations.

tadscout
01-19-2007, 07:27 AM
And then look in today's Indy's star where Walsh says-


Walsh said he and Bird, the Pacers president, have no plans for another trade but are open to ideas as the Feb. 22 deadline approaches.

"I'd always look to see if you can add shooters," he said. "I want to see how our guard corps checks out now. I'm talking about Jamaal (Tinsley), Orien Greene, Darrell Armstrong and (Keith McLeod, who also was acquired in the trade)."

IndyStar (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070119/SPORTS04/701190443)

avoidingtheclowns
01-19-2007, 07:47 AM
yeah keith is supposed to be a talented defender, definitelynot a scorer, so when swapping runi for him would upgrade perim. defense

tadscout
01-19-2007, 07:56 AM
I think/ hope If we do make a trade it will be for an upgrade at the Starting PG... I think Armstrong, Greene and Daniels/MDJ (in spots if needed, whomever of the 2 doesn't start) can handle the back-up role...

Putnam
01-19-2007, 08:41 AM
With Dunleavy on the floor to act as a point forward who distributes, Orien Greene can get more time at the point guard. He can stop dribble penetration. The rest of the time, Daniels can be playing. He can stop dribble penetration, too.

FlavaDave
01-19-2007, 10:10 AM
2-5 is covered. We can field a very good team from 2-5. All extra resources need to be devoted to one thing: getting us a point guard.

PacerMan
01-19-2007, 01:03 PM
I was watching the video of the press conference with Walsh & Bird talking about the trade.

At about the 9 minute mark Bird said something that really jumped out at me. This is from the transcript available on the Pacers NBA.com site.

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/transcript_070117.html

Here is the question that was ask, with Birds responce. The bolded area was his comment that I thought should have been jumped on by the guys from the press that were there.

Q: Was the New Jersey game a last straw and made you realize that something had to be done?

Bird: I think a couple weeks ago we started to see a couple of things that werenít working out the way we thought they would. We had to play Al at the three and heís never really done that as he usually plays the four. The thing that disappointed me the most was our inability to stop the ball-penetration as well as our lack of rebounding. If you canít rebound, you canít control the boards, and you canít do the things you want to do. Against Dallas, we were one rebound away from winning that game, but we didnít get it. Dunleavy is a great rebounder; Murphy is a good rebounder, and Ike Ė thatís what he does, so hopefully we donít have to have this conversation again, but we have to rebound the basketball.

Walsh & Bird were all over becoming a better rebouding team with this trade. But nothing has been done about what Bird was most disappointed about, our inability to stop the ball.

Cover Your ***..................
Dunleavy averages 4.7 boards a game and he's a "great rebounder". AL averages 5.8 including 6.3 THIS year and he's inadequate.
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, ok...................................

PacerMan
01-19-2007, 01:05 PM
Walsh & Bird were all over becoming a better rebouding team with this trade. But nothing has been done about what Bird was most disappointed about, our inability to stop the ball.

Trading Saras opens up the backup 2 minutes to Orien. That will help greatly IMO.

NuffSaid
01-19-2007, 01:51 PM
Rebounding, perimeter shooting and defending lane penetration @ the point not in the low-post were the primary three things DW/Bird wanted to fix. "Addition by subtraction" was how these issues were addressed.

By getting rid of Al, the Pacers were able to move Granger to the starting SF role where he is a better defender and a more consistent scorer from this position.

By getting rid of Jax2, the Pacers were able to move Quis to the starting SG role where he's a more athletic scorer from the position. The verdict is still out whether or not he's a better 3-pt threat over Jax2, but I was impressed w/his game last night.

By getting rid of Sarunas (the only move I wasn't thrilled about), the Pacers were able to move Greene up from the 4th to 3rd or possibly 2nd option PG. Like Armstrong, Greene brings defense from the 2-Guard. He's taller and has quicker feet. I still question is ability to run the offense and his ball distribution - just haven't seen enough of him to be real confident about his skills just yet - but his on-the-ball defense would make it difficult for most PGs to get around him which along w/Armstrong and when paired w/Quis would stop alot of that.

Murphy should provide some much needed scoring underneath the basket and more rebounding. Shot blocking might be a problem though. I still see only JO taking on that mantle.

Dunleavy has a very nice 3-pt shooting touch. I think he'd do well here.

Ike Diogu...I've seen this kid play once or twice and was very impressed. From the sound of it, this kid has the potential to be something special. He brings a focused attitude on interior defense, rebounding and scoring I haven't seen since the days of "The Dream." Again, I've only seen him play twice at the most, but that's who I thought of as I watched this kid play. I was very impressed.

Haven't read much on McLeod other than he has a nice touch from downtown. Perhaps he'll become the team's only legitimate 3-pt scoring PG. Who knows...

And that, my friends, is my 2-cents worth.

'Nuff Said

FlavaDave
01-19-2007, 02:08 PM
Cover Your ***..................
Dunleavy averages 4.7 boards a game and he's a "great rebounder". AL averages 5.8 including 6.3 THIS year and he's inadequate.
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, ok...................................



Minutes. If you project Dunleavy's stats to the amount of minutes Al averages a game, Jr. would average more than 7 boards a game.

Naptown_Seth
01-19-2007, 02:20 PM
Cover Your ***..................
Dunleavy averages 4.7 boards a game and he's a "great rebounder". AL averages 5.8 including 6.3 THIS year and he's inadequate.
uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, ok...................................
Al's per 48 minute numbers are even better than Dunleavy, so it's worse than you say even. It's not just "well Dun plays less". And keep in min that the Warriors play more possessions per game (ie, more rebound chances) on top of this.

Now maybe some of the PD faithful in love with this deal will remind us what they thought of Harrington's rebounding. Dunleavy mirrors that at best, or has been. Maybe it's just bad luck, but they have other guys pulling down rebounds.

Putnam
01-19-2007, 02:27 PM
Right on, Flava


Minutes. If you project Dunleavy's stats to the amount of minutes Al averages a game, Jr. would average more than 7 boards a game.

And just to make it easy, stroll on over to nba.com. The stats show that Harrington's rebounds per 40 minutes = 9, and Dunleavy's is 8.5. Are we gonna argue about half a rebound per game?

But the numbers alone don't tell the whole story. How well did Al shoot? Pretty well, really, but we expect the other guy to do that, too. How well did Al distribute? Not well at all, and we expect the new guy to do much better.

(Harrington= 2.0 assists per 48 for the Pacers; Dunleavy=5.3 assists per 48 for Golden State) They're on different teams now, so those values go out the window.

PacerMan
01-19-2007, 04:15 PM
Minutes. If you project Dunleavy's stats to the amount of minutes Al averages a game, Jr. would average more than 7 boards a game.

Nope.
Dunleavy - 28 minutes for his career
Al - 29 minutes

PacerMan
01-19-2007, 04:18 PM
Right on, Flava



And just to make it easy, stroll on over to nba.com. The stats show that Harrington's rebounds per 40 minutes = 9, and Dunleavy's is 8.5. Are we gonna argue about half a rebound per game?

But the numbers alone don't tell the whole story. How well did Al shoot? Pretty well, really, but we expect the other guy to do that, too. How well did Al distribute? Not well at all, and we expect the new guy to do much better.

(Harrington= 2.0 assists per 48 for the Pacers; Dunleavy=5.3 assists per 48 for Golden State) They're on different teams now, so those values go out the window.

Right on for being wrong??

"Dunleavy is a great rebounder; Murphy is a good rebounder, and Ike Ė thatís what he does"

THis is what I posted about. This is what Flava responded to. REBOUNDING.

PacerMan
01-19-2007, 04:19 PM
Al's per 48 minute numbers are even better than Dunleavy, so it's worse than you say even. It's not just "well Dun plays less". And keep in min that the Warriors play more possessions per game (ie, more rebound chances) on top of this.



Grass is always greener. :) (at least here in PD)

Putnam
01-19-2007, 04:36 PM
Are we gonna argue about half a rebound per game"



Yes!


.

imawhat
01-19-2007, 04:42 PM
FWIW, Al and MDJ play defense at two different spots. MDJ is always out on the wing and Harrington is much, much further away from the basket.

I think we should be comparing Al with Murphy and MDJ with Jackson, because that's a more accurate comparison in terms of defensive position.

FlavaDave
01-19-2007, 05:30 PM
Nope.
Dunleavy - 28 minutes for his career
Al - 29 minutes


I was using this season's stats, not their career stats.

Who is better? We will find out soon enough. Either way, one thing I do agree is that the statement that Dunleavy is a great rebounder is exagerated a bit.