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View Full Version : Not to "spur" on the Pistons fans...



Shade
05-06-2004, 12:23 AM
But there's no way in hell Detroit can beat San Antonio. In fact, at this rate, the Pacers are the ONLY team with even an outside chance, IMO. The P's just match up very well with SA.

SA's defense is arguably just as good as the Pistons', and SA's offense is MUCH better.

For the sake of the Eastern Conference, let's hope for the Pacers make the Finals. :pray:

Shade
05-06-2004, 12:31 AM
One round at a time.

We won't lose to the Heat. I guarantee it.

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 12:37 AM
One round at a time.

We won't lose to the Heat. I guarantee it.

I know we won't, but I'd look rather silly sitting in Conseco screaming about the NBA Finals tomorrow night.

Naw...people would cheer with you! :dance:

Nothing like an overexcited crowd ;)

unstandable
05-06-2004, 12:54 AM
Both Indiana and Detroit split their series with the Spurs this year. And over the season, in terms of points per game and field goal percentage, San Antonio's offense was slightly better than both Indiana's and Detroit's. I think both the Pacers and the Pistons could win a game or two against San Antonio.

Anthem
05-06-2004, 01:10 AM
I think both the Pacers and the Pistons could win a game or two against San Antonio.

The Pistons could win a game against the Spurs. The Pacers could win a series.

:devil:

Kstat
05-06-2004, 01:37 AM
The Pistons have a guy who has defended Tim Duncan to a standstill his whole career. They also have a guy in billups that is capable of getting Parker in foul trouble. This, "Detroit can't beat San Antonio but we can" stuff is idiotic. Pistons have more size, and better defense than Indiana.

Kegboy
05-06-2004, 02:03 AM
Pistons have more size, and better defense than Indiana.

Yeah, but their D is better than your's. You don't have the O to compete.

I will give you one point. I'd much rather have Chauncey on Parker than Mel Mel.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 02:09 AM
Pistons have more size, and better defense than Indiana.

Yeah, but their D is better than your's. You don't have the O to compete.

I will give you one point. I'd much rather have Chauncey on Parker than Mel Mel.

I'd really, REALLY challange the assumption that their defense is better. I'd also challenge the notion that our offense is WORSE than Indiana's. Our offense is all of ONE POINT worse than Indiana's, and since the Rasheed Wallace deal, its been BETTER. Billups, Rip, Prince, Sheed? I think we have plenty of options. But please, gloat some more over the fact you torched a 36-win team......I think its going to your heads.

Cactus Jax
05-06-2004, 02:55 AM
Pistons have more size, and better defense than Indiana.

Yeah, but their D is better than your's. You don't have the O to compete.

I will give you one point. I'd much rather have Chauncey on Parker than Mel Mel.

I'd really, REALLY challange the assumption that their defense is better. I'd also challenge the notion that our offense is WORSE than Indiana's. Our offense is all of ONE POINT worse than Indiana's, and since the Rasheed Wallace deal, its been BETTER. Billups, Rip, Prince, Sheed? I think we have plenty of options. But please, gloat some more over the fact you torched a 36-win team......I think its going to your heads.

Artest and O'Neal are better offensive players than anybody on Detroit. Sheed could/is better than Artest offensively when he goes inside but as of now all he does is shoot outside jumpers.

In the playoffs it's about having main offensive weapons to go to, yes the Pistons have guys that CAN score, but who WILL score when the game is on the line? The closest thing to a clutch player the Pistons have is Billups.

Parker, the way he's playing now, would torch the trapping defense, and either pass for easy shots inside, or shoot wide open shots.

BTW, a huge key in a possible Pacers/Pistons match-up would be Bender; Prince has long arms, but Bender has higher jumping ability; they don't have anybody who can really guard him at all, even Williamson is a good match-up against Harrington

kerosene
05-06-2004, 03:20 AM
I'd just like to throw in the fact that Indiana earned the right to be able sweep that crappy team. Had the Nets or Pistons won the EC outright they would've had that right. They didn't. Of course this was pre-Sheed, sure, but we could play what if all day about whatever you choose.

I really want to see the Pacers and Pistons duke it out in the EC finals. That thought pleases me. Not because I think the Pacers will walk all over the Pistons or anything like that; but because whoever wins that series can beat anyone from the West outside of the Lakers with their A game. That should be a hell of a series. There's other games to be won first though.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 03:35 AM
he closest thing to a clutch player the Pistons have is Billups.

Haven't seen Tayshaun Prince in the playoffs lately, have you......

Will Galen
05-06-2004, 06:03 AM
Pistons have more size, and better defense than Indiana.

The Pistons only have more size than the Pacers if you count everyone on each team. If you only count the guys who play then the Pacers are both taller and weigh more. As for who has the better defence an offence . . . well we will see, that's why they play the games.

STARTERS
PF...6'11, 242 JO -vs- 6'11, 230 Wallace.
SF...6-7, 246 Artest -vs- 6'9, 215 Prince.
C....6'11, 242 Foster -vs- 6'9, 240 Wallace.
SG..6'7, 195 Reggie -vs- 6'7, 193 Hamilton.
PG..6'3, 195 Tins -vs- 6'3, 202 Billups.

Starters are the same overall height, but the Pacers weigh 40 more pounds.

RESERVES
F...7'0, 219 Bender -vs- 7'0, 279 Campbell.
F...6'9, 250 Harrington -vs- 6'7, 245 Williamson.
C..6'11, 265 Pollard -vs- 6'11, 249 Okur.
C..6'10, 242 Croshere -vs-
G..6'2, 218 Jones -vs- 6'2, 195 Hunter.
G..6'3, 190 Johnson -vs- 6'2, 188 James.

Over all with Pollard at center the Pacers are 3 inches and 26 pounds heavier than the Pistons. With Croshere playing the Pacers are still 2 inches taller and 3 pounds heavier.

Pretty much a wash.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 06:27 AM
Oh for the love of god.

The Pistons size advantage comes OFF THE BENCH, and yes, they outsize Indiana. Nobody on the entire Pacers roster has been able to keep Elden Campbell out of the paint this year. Okur is bigger than harrington (I see you convenientely switched Okur and Campbell to make it look more even), and Corliss at SF is bigger than anyone Indy can bring off the bench.

And please, spare me the Scot Pollard comments. I've watched the guy play all year. If he sees more than 3 minutes per game the rest of the playoffs I will be SHOCKED.

I'll also add that in terms of raw strength, the only Pacer that outmuscles his counterpart is Ron Artest. Bigger doesn't neccessarily mean taller.

Will Galen
05-06-2004, 06:35 AM
Oh for the love of god.


(I see you convenientely switched Okur and Campbell to make it look more even

Campbell outweighs Bender by 60 pounds and I convenientely switched them? :mad: Simply put you don't know what you are talking about!

Kstat
05-06-2004, 06:49 AM
Oh for the love of god.


(I see you convenientely switched Okur and Campbell to make it look more even

Campbell outweighs Bender by 60 pounds and I convenientely switched them? :mad: Simply put you don't know what you are talking about!

You switched them and put Okur at C on Pollard, so itd look like less of a mismatch.

Reggie4Three
05-06-2004, 06:54 AM
I wish we would wait until the Pistons actually beat the Nets and the Pacers knock off the Heat before we start arguing about the two.

unstandable
05-06-2004, 07:14 AM
Artest and O'Neal are better offensive players than anybody on Detroit. Sheed could/is better than Artest offensively when he goes inside but as of now all he does is shoot outside jumpers.

In the playoffs it's about having main offensive weapons to go to, yes the Pistons have guys that CAN score, but who WILL score when the game is on the line? The closest thing to a clutch player the Pistons have is Billups.

Artest is a better offensive player than anyone on the Pistons? Come on. Rip Hamilton is clearly better, and arguments could easily be made for Sheed and Billups (not to mention Prince).

And Billups is as clutch as it gets in this league.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 07:27 AM
Artest and O'Neal are better offensive players than anybody on Detroit. Sheed could/is better than Artest offensively when he goes inside but as of now all he does is shoot outside jumpers.

In the playoffs it's about having main offensive weapons to go to, yes the Pistons have guys that CAN score, but who WILL score when the game is on the line? The closest thing to a clutch player the Pistons have is Billups.

Artest is a better offensive player than anyone on the Pistons? Come on. Rip Hamilton is clearly better, and arguments could easily be made for Sheed and Billups (not to mention Prince).

And Billups is as clutch as it gets in this league.

Artest is a heck of a player in the paint, but I'd like to see how effective he would be offensively vs a team like Detroit or San Antonio that shuts down the paint collectively and forces guys to beat them from the outside.

I think Rip overall is a better offensive player than Artest. He's more consistent and he scores on both drives and jumpers.

I just think its a tad arrogant of some people to talk as if there is some huge scoring gap between Indiana and Detroit, as if we're talking about Dallas and Toronto or something.

able
05-06-2004, 07:59 AM
What nobody seems to understand is that the Pacers are inferior to Detroit.
The press says it, well at least some of them do, the ones most people usually complain about ut still...
The Piston fans say it is so, and with the support of the "press" the do not need to argue facts anymore, it is so because they say it is so.

Add some decent amounts of homerism and you get the right ingredients for what is now becoming a new kind of spectacles (that's glasses for the non English).

Now they (Piston fans) have realized what we (Pacer fans) are still to learn:

JO is overrated and Sheed is much better, he will replace JO in the MVP voting and on the All Star team next year,
AL is a fluke and would not even be on the Piston bench
Tins is useless,
Foster would and could not even carry Ben's jock-strap
Reggie would have been forcefully retired in Detroit or shipped out to the productionline over at GM
Ron has some credibility but would definitely be no more then a #9 of the bench in Detroit, after all Okur, Prince and all starters are far better.

See, I have realized our errant ways, but then I am stubborn, that is my Frysian nature, and in the end I don't give a rats' *** about their believes, one way or the other.

I believe that "our" guys will (IF and WHEN "they" (Pistons) reach the ECF), will "help" them out of their dream status and back into the real world.

I do get slighlty nauseated every time I read all this crap, but then again they are entitled to their opinion(s) no matter how flawed they are.

They are Piston fans and should carry out this attitude and beliefs, WE as Pacers Fans should do that some more as well.

IF the Pistons get to the ECF, WE will win, hard fought perhaps, but we will.

I don't envy their awakening.



:stupid:

unstandable
05-06-2004, 08:11 AM
What nobody seems to understand is that the Pacers are inferior to Detroit.
The press says it, well at least some of them do, the ones most people usually complain about ut still...
The Piston fans say it is so, and with the support of the "press" the do not need to argue facts anymore, it is so because they say it is so.

Add some decent amounts of homerism and you get the right ingredients for what is now becoming a new kind of spectacles (that's glasses for the non English).

Now they (Piston fans) have realized what we (Pacer fans) are still to learn:

JO is overrated and Sheed is much better, he will replace JO in the MVP voting and on the All Star team next year,
AL is a fluke and would not even be on the Piston bench
Tins is useless,
Foster would and could not even carry Ben's jock-strap
Reggie would have been forcefully retired in Detroit or shipped out to the productionline over at GM
Ron has some credibility but would definitely be no more then a #9 of the bench in Detroit, after all Okur, Prince and all starters are far better.

See, I have realized our errant ways, but then I am stubborn, that is my Frysian nature, and in the end I don't give a rats' *** about their believes, one way or the other.

I believe that "our" guys will (IF and WHEN "they" (Pistons) reach the ECF), will "help" them out of their dream status and back into the real world.

I do get slighlty nauseated every time I read all this crap, but then again they are entitled to their opinion(s) no matter how flawed they are.

They are Piston fans and should carry out this attitude and beliefs, WE as Pacers Fans should do that some more as well.

IF the Pistons get to the ECF, WE will win, hard fought perhaps, but we will.

I don't envy their awakening.

Wow, talk about the ultimate straw man argument. No Pistons fan is saying any of those things in this thread (or anywhere else I've read). Why not just address the arguments that have actually been posted?

able
05-06-2004, 08:50 AM
Artest is a better offensive player than anyone on the Pistons? Come on. Rip Hamilton is clearly better, and arguments could easily be made for Sheed and Billups (not to mention Prince).

And Billups is as clutch as it gets in this league.

And your arguments are ???


:D

get a grip

whodean
05-06-2004, 09:37 AM
The argument that the Pistons don't have a chance against the Spurs is ludicrous, they match up very well. I like Prince vs. Bowen a hell of a lot more than Artest vs. Bowen and both Rasheed and Ben Wallace have a history of shutting Tim Duncan down. Tony Parker would be a tough matchup for either Indy or Detroit.

NewYawk
05-06-2004, 09:50 AM
The Pistons have a guy who has defended Tim Duncan to a standstill his whole career. They also have a guy in billups that is capable of getting Parker in foul trouble. This, "Detroit can't beat San Antonio but we can" stuff is idiotic. Pistons have more size, and better defense than Indiana.

Tim Duncan is unguardable. So it assume anyone on your team could guard him is flat out silly. And Chauncey Billips cannot guard Tony Parker. Kobe Bryant and Gary Payton can't guard Parker, and both are far better defenders than Billips.

Bottom line: Detroit would get swept by SA. Don't matter though. Detroit will not face SA in these playoffs.

DisplacedKnick
05-06-2004, 10:05 AM
Interesting discussion.

IMO the Pistons match up very well with the Spurs - better than they do with the Pacers, which is why I think Indy wins the EC.

The Pacers have more players capable of making the Pistons pay for their aggressive, attacking defense. In fact, if they double Tinsley you turn him into what he should be anyway - a passer.

If you double Parker you turn him into a passer and take TD's main supporting scorer away.

The other guy is Duncan. I expect Detroit to selectively double him. Now he's a pretty good passer but he doesn't have the weapons JO has if Detroit comes with a double on him.

Where both teams have a huge advantage is at the line. Both teams will make it a tough, physical series with a lot of fouls called. The Spurs suck shooting free throws. I can see this determining the series for either team.

Detroit's defense can suffocate a team that runs a fairly static offense that relies on one or two main options. They'll have more trouble with the Pacers, a team where several players can go for 20 on any given night.

The other huge edge for Detroit is Billups instead of Tinsley guarding Parker.

Well, that's why they play the games but I see the matchup with the Spurs favoring Detroit more than Indy - but I also think Indy has the variety and quality of weapons to beat Detroit in a 7-game series so I don't see the Pistons ever getting there.

I could really flesh this out but no time right now.

sweabs
05-06-2004, 10:13 AM
And Billups is as clutch as it gets in this league.

Hmmmm...I thought I heard of this guy called Reggie Miller... :unimpressed:

whodean
05-06-2004, 10:26 AM
6 years ago sure.

unstandable
05-06-2004, 10:49 AM
Billups led the league in game-tying or lead-changing baskets in the last two minutes and overtime last season. And in the playoffs it continued (for example he scored nine points in overtime of the clinching game against Philly).

sweabs
05-06-2004, 10:56 AM
Whodean and unstandable - whether you wanna admit it or not, Uncle Regg is still the most clutch player in the league - he hits timely 3's all the time and now with playoffs on its only going to continue. Being clutch is something that doesn't dissapear with age.

Hicks
05-06-2004, 11:06 AM
The argument that the Pistons don't have a chance against the Spurs is ludicrous, they match up very well. I like Prince vs. Bowen a hell of a lot more than Artest vs. Bowen

:laugh: OK

and both Rasheed and Ben Wallace have a history of shutting Tim Duncan down. Tony Parker would be a tough matchup for either Indy or Detroit.

See, no one believes us for whatever reason, but Jeff and Scot play Duncan better than, really, they should. But the fact remains, they guard him very, very well.

Agreed on Parker. The guy's a menace.

Hicks
05-06-2004, 11:08 AM
6 years ago sure.

You did WATCH the 2002 1st round, didn't you?

naptownmenace
05-06-2004, 11:12 AM
The argument that the Pistons don't have a chance against the Spurs is ludicrous, they match up very well. I like Prince vs. Bowen a hell of a lot more than Artest vs. Bowen and both Rasheed and Ben Wallace have a history of shutting Tim Duncan down. Tony Parker would be a tough matchup for either Indy or Detroit.

All right. Up to this point, I've declined to get envolved in the hypothetical "Pacers V. Pistons" debate.

I'll start by saying that I agree that the Pistons can match up defensively with the Spurs very well. The only area that I believe they would have trouble in is scoring in the fourth quarter and being able to pull out a close game. If the Pistons have had a weakness this season, before and after the trade, it's their ability to pull out wins when the game is close. They were much better at this last year.

Secondly, I don't ever recall Rasheed or Ben Wallace shutting Tim Duncan down. It's not because I didn't see it, it's because it's never happened. No one ever talked about Sheed's defense on Duncan (although I do believe he is a good post defender) before he arrived in Detroit. The next time someone provides me with some proof of this, it will be the first.

Third, some Detroit fans are truely underrating Ron Artest's scoring ability. He did average 18 points per game for the season and since the All-Star break, his average has been 20 per contest. However, it's not just how much he scores but the way that he scores that is most important and he gets them by attacking the basket, drawing fouls, and knocking down shots on the perimeter.

Finally, these are the factors that I believe would lead to a Pacers victory against the Pistons:

*The ability to score against tough defense. Both squads play excellent team defense and clog the lane. However, the Pacers have more players that can create off the dribble and get their own shot and in a matchup like this, that would be key. Billups is really the only player on the Pistons that has this ability. I would say that Prince has the ability as well but with Artest or even Bender guarding him, I can't make that claim.

*The Pacers also have a go to player in the middle, whereas Rasheed won't fight for position in the paint. Jermaine O'neal can command a doubleteam whereas, no player on the Pistons needs that much attention. He wasn't an MVP canidate for nothing.

*The Pacers have the homecourt advantage. In a matchup like this, that will be key. The Pistons are a good road team but not as good as Indiana is.

Those three reasons will be just enough for the Pacers to skate by the Pistons in six or seven games.

unstandable
05-06-2004, 11:17 AM
Secondly, I don't ever recall Rasheed or Ben Wallace shutting Tim Duncan down. It's not because I didn't see it, it's because it's never happened. No one ever talked about Sheed's defense on Duncan (although I do believe he is a good post defender) before he arrived in Detroit. The next time someone provides me with some proof of this, it will be the first.

In the two games he played against Detroit this year Duncan scored 17 points and 12 points. That's an average of 14.5 points, much lower than his season average of 22.3. And he averaged 23 points against Indiana.

That 14.5 point average was his lowest against any opponent this season.

whodean
05-06-2004, 11:21 AM
Secondly, I don't ever recall Rasheed or Ben Wallace shutting Tim Duncan down. It's not because I didn't see it, it's because it's never happened. No one ever talked about Sheed's defense on Duncan (although I do believe he is a good post defender) before he arrived in Detroit. The next time someone provides me with some proof of this, it will be the first

OK, here is your proof, Ben Wallace blocked Duncan's shot while guarding him 2 times in the final 2 minutes of Detroit's win on Jan. 19 of this season. It sealed the win

Here is an article about Rasheed vs. Duncan http://www.detnewss.com/2004/pistons/0403/25/p02-102621.htm

whodean
05-06-2004, 11:26 AM
Duncan had 17 points, 10 rebounds and six assists. But he committed six turnovers and took just 13 shots as he was stifled down the stretch, missing two free throws and having a shot blocked by Wallace on consecutive possessions.

"Ben did an excellent job on me, especially with the block, and I missed the two free throws," Duncan said. "That was kind of a turning point. We had a chance to go up four (79-75) and instead, I gave them a chance to go ahead."

whodean
05-06-2004, 11:29 AM
I don't know if the Sheed link is working so here:

Rasheed Wallace likes Duncan rivalry

"Timmy is a good player," the Pistons' Rasheed Wallace says of the Spurs' Tim Duncan. "... I like going against him."

SAN ANTONIO — Ask anybody who has coached Rasheed Wallace and they’ll tell you the better his opponent, the better he plays.

It doesn’t get a whole lot better than whom he’ll face tonight: Wallace will renew a longstanding rivalry with San Antonio’s Tim Duncan.

“Timmy is a good player,” Wallace said after the Pistons’ short practice Wednesday. “I’ve been going against him since college. I ain’t taking nothing from him. I like going against him.

“We’ve had our battles back and forth. Sometimes he gets me and sometimes I get him.”

“I’ve always felt that if it wasn’t for his reputation,” Pistons Coach Larry Brown said, “people would be talking about Rasheed like they do (Chris) Webber, Duncan, (Kevin) Garnett, and people like that, based on how he played before he got with us. But the other stuff always got all the attention.”

Games against the likes of Duncan offer Wallace a forum to make a statement that he belongs in that class.

“You know, Mo (Maurice Cheeks, Portland coach) and Pop (Gregg Popovich, San Antonio coach) and my brother (Pistons assistant Herb Brown) all told me, these are the guys Rasheed really likes to play,” Brown said. “He really goes after them and is accountable.”

Wallace didn’t dispute that.

“Yeah, I do,” he said. “Especially KG (Garnett). I feel like he’s a mirror image of myself. We’re both long, quick and athletic and run the floor. The only difference is he’s a better rebounder and I’m a better shooter. So, yeah, I love going against KG and Timmy.”

sweabs
05-06-2004, 11:29 AM
I gave them a chance to go ahead.

naptownmenace
05-06-2004, 11:36 AM
Secondly, I don't ever recall Rasheed or Ben Wallace shutting Tim Duncan down. It's not because I didn't see it, it's because it's never happened. No one ever talked about Sheed's defense on Duncan (although I do believe he is a good post defender) before he arrived in Detroit. The next time someone provides me with some proof of this, it will be the first

OK, here is your proof, Ben Wallace blocked Duncan's shot while guarding him 2 times in the final 2 minutes of Detroit's win on Jan. 19 of this season. It sealed the win

Here is an article about Rasheed vs. Duncan http://www.detnewss.com/2004/pistons/0403/25/p02-102621.htm

Your link is broken. You've got two "s"s in detnews.

I read that article and it's just Rasheed talking about how he likes to get up for KG and Duncan. Larry Brown offers some support but no where does anyone make the claim that he "shuts down" Duncan.

BTW, didn't the Pistons lose to the Spurs that very night? Duncan only had 12 points and he only took 8 shots but it appears he passed out of double teams a lot (5 assists) and he was fouled often (10 ft attempts). Sheed had a good game against Duncan but the bottom line is the Spurs still won - just like the Spurs would win if they met in the Finals.

Hicks
05-06-2004, 11:40 AM
BTW, Another difference is we would have home court vs SA, Det would not.

unstandable
05-06-2004, 11:43 AM
BTW, Another difference is we would have home court vs SA, Det would not.

The first valid difference I've read in this thread! :)

whodean
05-06-2004, 11:46 AM
BTW, Another difference is we would have home court vs SA, Det would not.

The first valid difference I've read in this thread! :)

Now that is a valid difference since the Pistons beat SanAntonio in Detroit and lost in Texas.

dipperdunk
05-06-2004, 12:01 PM
Tim Duncan the last 5 years against the Pistons.

2000 21 ppg 11 reb
2001 22 ppg 12 reb
2002 26 ppg 13 reb
2003 24 ppg 16 reb
2004 14 ppg 12 reb

He has 1 bad game this season scoring 12 pts bringing his average down because they only play twice and all of a sudden Ben can shut him down. :laugh: He had 11 pts. against the 76ers this year so I guess Dalembert can shut him down as well.:rolleyes: Where was Ben the last 4 years surely he was trying to guard Duncan correct? I mean he averaged 25 pts per game against Detroit in 2002 and 2003 so exactly how does Ben shut him down?

As far as Rasheed; well Duncan averaged 29 ppg in 2002 vs. Portland so I think he looks forward to playing Rasheed as well.

unstandable
05-06-2004, 12:13 PM
Cliff Robinson was the one guarding Duncan the past few years. Now it would probably be some combination of Ben and Rasheed.

whodean
05-06-2004, 12:13 PM
And what was Duncan's PPG vs. Indiana this season?

Hicks
05-06-2004, 12:15 PM
And what was Duncan's PPG vs. Indiana this season?

Irrelevant. Why? Because we weren't the ones claiming we can shut down Duncan, you guys were.

I said Foster and Pollard guard him very very well, better than you'd think they should. That doesn't for one second mean I think they could ever shut him down at all.

But you are trying to point to one game where Duncan didn't put up monster numbers and claim that means you have "the answer" for him.

whodean
05-06-2004, 12:19 PM
One is better than none (like the Pacers)

Someone asked for proof that the Pistons can defend the Spurs, I gave it based on what happened this year.

Is anyone going to "shut down" Duncan? No.

Would the Pistons have as good of a chance (at least) as the Pacers? Yes.

unstandable
05-06-2004, 12:21 PM
I agree that no one can consistently shut down Duncan. My posts have just been in rebuttal to the claim that the Pistons have never shut down Duncan. Of course it depends on what you mean by shut down, but like I said this season Duncan averaged less against the Pistons than he did against any other team. Mehmet Okur and Ben Wallace defended him well the first time this season, and Rasheed and Ben did a good job the second time.

fwpacerfan
05-06-2004, 12:36 PM
Oh for the love of god.

The Pistons size advantage comes OFF THE BENCH, and yes, they outsize Indiana. Nobody on the entire Pacers roster has been able to keep Elden Campbell out of the paint this year. Okur is bigger than harrington (I see you convenientely switched Okur and Campbell to make it look more even), and Corliss at SF is bigger than anyone Indy can bring off the bench.

And please, spare me the Scot Pollard comments. I've watched the guy play all year. If he sees more than 3 minutes per game the rest of the playoffs I will be SHOCKED.

I'll also add that in terms of raw strength, the only Pacer that outmuscles his counterpart is Ron Artest. Bigger doesn't neccessarily mean taller.

You say the Pistons are bigger? Then you say Corliss is bigger than anyone Indy can bring off the bench? How about:

F...6'9, 250 Harrington -vs- 6'7, 245 Williamson
Last I checked 2 inches and 5 pounds would constitute BIGGER.

STARTERS
PF...6'11, 242 JO -vs- 6'11, 230 Wallace.
Advantage Pacers
SF...6-7, 246 Artest -vs- 6'9, 215 Prince.
Advantage Pacers
C....6'11, 242 Foster -vs- 6'9, 240 Wallace.
Advantage Pacers
SG..6'7, 195 Reggie -vs- 6'7, 193 Hamilton.
Advantage Pacers
PG..6'3, 195 Tins -vs- 6'3, 202 Billups.
Advantage Pistons



RESERVES
F...7'0, 219 Bender -vs- 7'0, 279 Campbell.
Advantage Pistons
F...6'9, 250 Harrington -vs- 6'7, 245 Williamson.
Advantage Pacers
C..6'11, 265 Pollard -vs- 6'11, 249 Okur.
Advantage Pacers
C..6'10, 242 Croshere -vs-
Since Detroit isn't as deep - Pacers advantage
G..6'2, 218 Jones -vs- 6'2, 195 Hunter.
Advantage Pacers
G..6'3, 190 Johnson -vs- 6'2, 188 James.
Advantage Pacers

The Pistons are bigger only at 2 positions. Sorry Kstat but you are wrong on this one. :blush:

fwpacerfan
05-06-2004, 12:52 PM
One is better than none (like the Pacers)

Someone asked for proof that the Pistons can defend the Spurs, I gave it based on what happened this year.

Is anyone going to "shut down" Duncan? No.

Would the Pistons have as good of a chance (at least) as the Pacers? Yes.

Actually you are wrong:


Pacers 89, Spurs 79
1/16/2004 Conseco Fieldhouse, Indianapolis, IN
PLAYER POS MIN FGM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS

TIM DUNCAN F 43 4-18 8-12 3 6 9 7 1 2 2 6 16

Judging by this the Pacers OWN Tim Duncan! Nevermind he scored 30 a week before this game, that game doesn't count because Cliff Robinson, I mean, Primoz Brezec guarded him. THIS GAME counts because JO guarded him. (Not to mention that it supports my argument)

I want to thank the Pistons homers for teaching me the technique of twisting facts while ignoring others to support my argument. :thankyou:

unstandable
05-06-2004, 01:00 PM
Did you not believe me when I said that Cliff Robinson guarded Duncan the past two seasons? It's true.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 01:10 PM
Oh for the love of god.

The Pistons size advantage comes OFF THE BENCH, and yes, they outsize Indiana. Nobody on the entire Pacers roster has been able to keep Elden Campbell out of the paint this year. Okur is bigger than harrington (I see you convenientely switched Okur and Campbell to make it look more even), and Corliss at SF is bigger than anyone Indy can bring off the bench.

And please, spare me the Scot Pollard comments. I've watched the guy play all year. If he sees more than 3 minutes per game the rest of the playoffs I will be SHOCKED.

I'll also add that in terms of raw strength, the only Pacer that outmuscles his counterpart is Ron Artest. Bigger doesn't neccessarily mean taller.

You say the Pistons are bigger? Then you say Corliss is bigger than anyone Indy can bring off the bench? How about:

F...6'9, 250 Harrington -vs- 6'7, 245 Williamson
Last I checked 2 inches and 5 pounds would constitute BIGGER.

STARTERS
PF...6'11, 242 JO -vs- 6'11, 230 Wallace.
Advantage Pacers
SF...6-7, 246 Artest -vs- 6'9, 215 Prince.
Advantage Pacers
C....6'11, 242 Foster -vs- 6'9, 240 Wallace.
Advantage Pacers
SG..6'7, 195 Reggie -vs- 6'7, 193 Hamilton.
Advantage Pacers
PG..6'3, 195 Tins -vs- 6'3, 202 Billups.
Advantage Pistons



RESERVES
F...7'0, 219 Bender -vs- 7'0, 279 Campbell.
Advantage Pistons
F...6'9, 250 Harrington -vs- 6'7, 245 Williamson.
Advantage Pacers
C..6'11, 265 Pollard -vs- 6'11, 249 Okur.
Advantage Pacers
C..6'10, 242 Croshere -vs-
Since Detroit isn't as deep - Pacers advantage
G..6'2, 218 Jones -vs- 6'2, 195 Hunter.
Advantage Pacers
G..6'3, 190 Johnson -vs- 6'2, 188 James.
Advantage Pacers

The Pistons are bigger only at 2 positions. Sorry Kstat but you are wrong on this one. :blush:

If Corliss played PF vs Indy.. sure. Okur plays PF off the bench now. Corliss plays SF.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 01:16 PM
I don't think you guys have been any better about stating the facts.

Somehow Tins is going to KILL us because he's supposed to pass the ball anyway? Oh, you mean like Jason Kidd is doing now? :laugh:

Reggie Miller IS as clutch as it gets in this league....now all we need is a time machine to bring him from 1998 to 2004.

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 01:37 PM
As said by Tim Duncan himself after the Spurs lost to Indiana at Conseco:

"Jeff did a great job on me," Duncan admitted. "He contested every shot and he kept me from getting the ball in good spots. He just did a great job all around."

"Duncan did not make a basket in the second half until a pair of garbage hoops in the final 65 seconds after matters had been decided. He added nine rebounds and seven assists but was outplayed by O'Neal, who battled foul trouble for 20 points, 10 boards and five blocks."

And despite the fact that Duncan had 30/15 against us at San Antonio, we only lost by one. If it weren't for that damn three pointer to send it into overtime. :mad:

Now I'm not saying these quotes make the Pacers suddenly better than SA right now, and these quotes suddenly don't make our players better defenders on Duncan than anybody in the league, I won't do that unlike some people. :unimpressed:

I'm simply throwing out quotes straight from the horses mouth.

And it is official. I want to beat Detroit in the Eastern Conference Finals more so than anybody. When they lose it'll be great listening to them all.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 01:38 PM
As said by Tim Duncan himself after the Spurs lost to Indiana at Conseco:

"Jeff did a great job on me," Duncan admitted. "He contested every shot and he kept me from getting the ball in good spots. He just did a great job all around."

"Duncan did not make a basket in the second half until a pair of garbage hoops in the final 65 seconds after matters had been decided. He added nine rebounds and seven assists but was outplayed by O'Neal, who battled foul trouble for 20 points, 10 boards and five blocks."

And despite the fact that Duncan had 30/15 against us at San Antonio, we only lost by one. If it weren't for that damn three pointer to send it into overtime. :mad:

Now I'm not saying these quotes make the Pacers suddenly better than SA right now, and these quotes suddenly don't make our players better defenders on Duncan than anybody in the league, I won't do that unlike some people. :unimpressed:

I'm simply throwing out quotes straight from the horses mouth.

And it is official. I want to beat Detroit in the Eastern Conference Finals more so than anybody. When they lose it'll be great listening to them all.

And if the Pistons win........?

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 01:40 PM
I could ask the same to you, if New Jersey wins. :unimpressed:

Your series with the Nets has only one game played, and they've been written off totally. In your mind the series is over, so I guess I can do the same in a series that hasn't even happend yet.

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 01:42 PM
:lurk:

This is all very entertaining. Really it is. A whole bunch of people arguing over stuff that cannot be proven. Really, fantastic.

You do realize, Detroit is NOT playing Indiana right now. Instead of worrying about who we might play next, shall we talk about the Heat?

Kstat
05-06-2004, 01:43 PM
I could ask the same to you, if New Jersey wins. :unimpressed:

I'm not the one shooting my mouth off, so the question to me is irrelevant.

And I said two weeks ago that we'd sweep the Nets. So far they've given me no reason to change my thinking. Maybe if the Nets win one of the next two games, i'll waste my breath on them.

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 01:44 PM
I could ask the same to you, if New Jersey wins. :unimpressed:

I'm not the one shooting my mouth off, so the question to me is irrelevant.

And I said two weeks ago that we'd sweep the Nets. So far they've given me no reason to change my thinking. Maybe if the Nets win one of the next two games, i'll waste my breath on them.

I bet you don't sweep the Nets, just like I bet we don't sweep the Nets. And you've never shot your mouth off...... :unimpressed:

Kstat
05-06-2004, 01:45 PM
I could ask the same to you, if New Jersey wins. :unimpressed:

I'm not the one shooting my mouth off, so the question to me is irrelevant.

And I said two weeks ago that we'd sweep the Nets. So far they've given me no reason to change my thinking. Maybe if the Nets win one of the next two games, i'll waste my breath on them.

I bet you don't sweep the Nets, just like I bet we don't sweep the Nets. And you've never shot your mouth off...... :unimpressed:

About this topic? no. I just stated facts.

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 01:48 PM
About this topic? no. I just stated facts.

Now technically you saying that you're going to sweep the Nets is not a fact. ;)

Kstat
05-06-2004, 01:50 PM
About this topic? no. I just stated facts.

Now technically you saying that you're going to sweep the Nets is not a fact. ;)

No, i was talking about this thread, since everyone seems to want to annoint his team the east's "only hope." I was beginning to think ESPN had added another three pagers on to their Isiah/Marbury article....

ANd not, its not a fact. but until NJ wins a game, its not false, either.

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 01:53 PM
No, i was talking about this thread, since everyone seems to want to annoint his team the east's "only hope." I was beginning to think ESPN had added another three pagers on to their Isiah/Marbury article....

ANd not, its not a fact. but until NJ wins a game, its not false, either.

This whole thread to me is filled with nothing but opinions, and cannot be answered until a team from the East comes out, and potentially faces the Spurs who haven't won the West yet.

Suaveness has added the most insight in this thread so far.

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 01:53 PM
You know what? I hope Detroit sweeps NJ.

whodean
05-06-2004, 01:55 PM
I'm not ready to say the Pistons will sweep the Nets, the real test for the Pistons comes in games 3 and 4 in Jersey.

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 01:56 PM
I'm not ready to say the Pistons will sweep the Nets, the real test for the Pistons comes in games 3 and 4 in Jersey.


What are you talking about? There is no test. Detroit will kill them.

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 01:56 PM
I'm not ready to say the Pistons will sweep the Nets, the real test for the Pistons comes in games 3 and 4 in Jersey.

Agreed. Nets haven't lost a home game in the playoffs in a long while.

I know our test will come in Game #3 and #4 down in Miami. We should win our first two at home since Miami sucks on the road.

whodean
05-06-2004, 01:58 PM
I'm not ready to say the Pistons will sweep the Nets, the real test for the Pistons comes in games 3 and 4 in Jersey.


What are you talking about? There is no test. Detroit will kill them.

Oh, don't get me wrong, Detroit WILL win the series, it just may be in 5 or 6 games.

unstandable
05-06-2004, 01:58 PM
This is all very entertaining. Really it is. A whole bunch of people arguing over stuff that cannot be proven. Really, fantastic.

Isn't that exactly what internet message boards are for? :)

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 02:00 PM
I'm not ready to say the Pistons will sweep the Nets, the real test for the Pistons comes in games 3 and 4 in Jersey.


What are you talking about? There is no test. Detroit will kill them.

Oh, don't get me wrong, Detroit WILL win the series, it just may be in 5 or 6 games.

Naw....4 games EASILY. Detroit is just an amazing team.

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 02:02 PM
This is all very entertaining. Really it is. A whole bunch of people arguing over stuff that cannot be proven. Really, fantastic.

Isn't that exactly what internet message boards are for? :)

Well, usually one would think the discussions would be productive...instead its "Detroit is great" and "Indiana is greater" and "Your mom is the greatest".

whodean
05-06-2004, 02:06 PM
Naw....4 games EASILY. Detroit is just an amazing team.

Amen brother, glad you see the light.

unstandable
05-06-2004, 02:06 PM
This is all very entertaining. Really it is. A whole bunch of people arguing over stuff that cannot be proven. Really, fantastic.

Isn't that exactly what internet message boards are for? :)

Well, usually one would think the discussions would be productive...instead its "Detroit is great" and "Indiana is greater" and "Your mom is the greatest".

Unfortunately such discussions are rarely productive when fans of different teams are debating one another. But I enjoy the debates anyway.

whodean
05-06-2004, 02:15 PM
STARTERS
PF...6'11, 242 JO -vs- 6'11, 230 Wallace.
Advantage Pacers
SF...6-7, 246 Artest -vs- 6'9, 215 Prince.
Advantage Pacers
C....6'11, 242 Foster -vs- 6'9, 240 Wallace.
Advantage Pacers
SG..6'7, 195 Reggie -vs- 6'7, 193 Hamilton.
Advantage Pacers
PG..6'3, 195 Tins -vs- 6'3, 202 Billups.
Advantage Pistons



RESERVES
F...7'0, 219 Bender -vs- 7'0, 279 Campbell.
Advantage Pistons
F...6'9, 250 Harrington -vs- 6'7, 245 Williamson.
Advantage Pacers
C..6'11, 265 Pollard -vs- 6'11, 249 Okur.
Advantage Pacers
C..6'10, 242 Croshere -vs-
Since Detroit isn't as deep - Pacers advantage
G..6'2, 218 Jones -vs- 6'2, 195 Hunter.
Advantage Pacers
G..6'3, 190 Johnson -vs- 6'2, 188 James.
Advantage Pacers
.

Here's how this size comparison REALLY goes down:

PF...JO -vs- R. Wallace
wash
SF...Artest -vs- Prince.
Prince has the height and wingspan, Artest the weight advantage Indy
C....Foster -vs- B.Wallace.
Foster has the height, Wallace the weight (and strength) wash.
SG..Reggie -vs-Hamilton.
wash
PG..Tinsley -vs- Billups.
Advantage Pistons

Bench:

Harrington -vs- Williamson.
Harrington with the height advantage, Williamson with the strength wash.
Bender -vs- Okur
Advantage Pistons-Okur is much bigger and stronger
Pollard -vs-Campbell
Advantage Pistons but both don't hardly play so who cares
Johnson-vs- Hunter.
wash
James vs. Jones
Wash
Croshere vs. Ham
Ham with the strength advantage

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 02:15 PM
Naw....4 games EASILY. Detroit is just an amazing team.

Amen brother, glad you see the light.

Well, Detroit is just too much for NJ. NJ's game just doesn't suit Detroit's outstanding, swarming defense.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 02:16 PM
......explain to me again where I wrote that list?

naptownmenace
05-06-2004, 02:32 PM
One is better than none (like the Pacers)

Someone asked for proof that the Pistons can defend the Spurs, I gave it based on what happened this year.

Is anyone going to "shut down" Duncan? No.

Would the Pistons have as good of a chance (at least) as the Pacers? Yes.

Whoa Nelly! Hold on there for a minute Dean.

I asked for proof of Rasheed and or Ben Wallace being able to "shut down" Tim Duncan. You were the one that typed that Sheed and Wallace could and have "shut down" Duncan.

Don't get it twisted. :laugh:

whodean
05-06-2004, 02:53 PM
If the definition of "shutting down" Duncan is to block his shot on back to back crunch time possessions then Ben has done it.

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 02:54 PM
If the definition of "shutting down" Duncan is to block his shot on back to back crunch time possessions then Ben has done it.

Shutting down means to do that to an opponet for an entire game, for a series. Not two possessions.

whodean
05-06-2004, 02:56 PM
I never said that Duncan would be "shut down" for an entire series by anyway, I said the Pistons defenders have in the past done a good job of defending Duncan.

sweabs
05-06-2004, 02:58 PM
I don't think you guys have been any better about stating the facts.

Somehow Tins is going to KILL us because he's supposed to pass the ball anyway? Oh, you mean like Jason Kidd is doing now? :laugh:

Reggie Miller IS as clutch as it gets in this league....now all we need is a time machine to bring him from 1998 to 2004.

As I said before, being clutch and having the ability to knock down a crucial shot with the time expiring DOES NOT DISAPPEAR WITH AGE. I guess you didn't see the series against New Jersey eh?

able
05-06-2004, 02:59 PM
One is better than none (like the Pacers)

Someone asked for proof that the Pistons can defend the Spurs, I gave it based on what happened this year.

Is anyone going to "shut down" Duncan? No.

Would the Pistons have as good of a chance (at least) as the Pacers? Yes.

Whoa Nelly! Hold on there for a minute Dean.

I asked for proof of Rasheed and or Ben Wallace being able to "shut down" Tim Duncan. You were the one that typed that Sheed and Wallace could and have "shut down" Duncan.

Don't get it twisted. :laugh:

Can you really ask a nut not to crack???


I nay know about you, but except for some outrageous laughter (which at times is welcome, mind you) I get very little out of the "discussion" with these "posters".

It is IMO very close to trolling what they are doing, very close.

They are avoiding any real answer when asked, general statements galore, based on assumptions invented by starving members of the lower east side press core, (sorry to the people their if they feel insulted, i just felt it read better that way) and posed as eternal wisdom for the followers of the gods that once were the wallace's.

it's getting to be a bleeding sitcom in its own right.

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 02:59 PM
The argument that the Pistons don't have a chance against the Spurs is ludicrous, they match up very well. I like Prince vs. Bowen a hell of a lot more than Artest vs. Bowen and both Rasheed and Ben Wallace have a history of shutting Tim Duncan down. Tony Parker would be a tough matchup for either Indy or Detroit.

Looks like you said Wallace has a history shutting down Tim Duncan. You can't even keep track of what you say. :unimpressed: :banned:

unstandable
05-06-2004, 03:07 PM
Can you really ask a nut not to crack???

I nay know about you, but except for some outrageous laughter (which at times is welcome, mind you) I get very little out of the "discussion" with these "posters".

It is IMO very close to trolling what they are doing, very close.

They are avoiding any real answer when asked, general statements galore, based on assumptions invented by starving members of the lower east side press core, (sorry to the people their if they feel insulted, i just felt it read better that way) and posed as eternal wisdom for the followers of the gods that once were the wallace's.

it's getting to be a bleeding sitcom in its own right.

Give me a break. In this thread Pacers fans are doing the exact same things as Pistons fans. If you guys don't want Pistons fans to post you shouldn't start a thread purposely meant to incite them.

able
05-06-2004, 03:10 PM
Give me a break. In this thread Pacers fans are doing the exact same things as Pistons fans. If you guys don't want Pistons fans to post you shouldn't start a thread purposely meant to incite them.

Let's make one deal, consisting of two tasks, hard for you, easy for me, I like uneven challenges:

1. I don't tell you what you post on the Pistons board and you don't tell a Pacer fan what to post on a Pacers board.
2. If you are adressed with humour, try looking it up in the dictionary before getting all in tits over it.

unstandable
05-06-2004, 03:15 PM
I'm not telling Pacers fans what to post on their board. I'm just saying that depending on the topic of what you post, you should expect certain responses, and you shouldn't complain when you get them.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 03:25 PM
I don't think you guys have been any better about stating the facts.

Somehow Tins is going to KILL us because he's supposed to pass the ball anyway? Oh, you mean like Jason Kidd is doing now? :laugh:

Reggie Miller IS as clutch as it gets in this league....now all we need is a time machine to bring him from 1998 to 2004.

As I said before, being clutch and having the ability to knock down a crucial shot with the time expiring DOES NOT DISAPPEAR WITH AGE. I guess you didn't see the series against New Jersey eh?

I saw the clock at 0.0 and the ball in Reggie's hands. Great shot, but shouldn't have counted.....

And that was two years and two injuries ago. I didnt see clutch reggie when they needed him last year.

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 03:28 PM
I don't think you guys have been any better about stating the facts.

Somehow Tins is going to KILL us because he's supposed to pass the ball anyway? Oh, you mean like Jason Kidd is doing now? :laugh:

Reggie Miller IS as clutch as it gets in this league....now all we need is a time machine to bring him from 1998 to 2004.

As I said before, being clutch and having the ability to knock down a crucial shot with the time expiring DOES NOT DISAPPEAR WITH AGE. I guess you didn't see the series against New Jersey eh?

I saw the clock at 0.0 and the ball in Reggie's hands. Great shot, but shouldn't have counted.....

And that was two years and two injuries ago. I didnt see clutch reggie when they needed him last year.

I don't think you seem to remember what happened last year. No way in hell Reggie can save that team. But that doesn't mean he still can't. He will, I assure you.

Hicks
05-06-2004, 03:29 PM
Croshere vs. Ham
Ham with the strength advantage

:laugh:

Kstat
05-06-2004, 03:31 PM
Croshere vs. Ham
Ham with the strength advantage

:laugh:

No offense but I think Chucky Atkins would have a strength advantage over Croshere....he's 6'10" but plays like he's 5'10"......

Hicks
05-06-2004, 03:33 PM
I don't think you guys have been any better about stating the facts.

Somehow Tins is going to KILL us because he's supposed to pass the ball anyway? Oh, you mean like Jason Kidd is doing now? :laugh:

Reggie Miller IS as clutch as it gets in this league....now all we need is a time machine to bring him from 1998 to 2004.

As I said before, being clutch and having the ability to knock down a crucial shot with the time expiring DOES NOT DISAPPEAR WITH AGE. I guess you didn't see the series against New Jersey eh?

I saw the clock at 0.0 and the ball in Reggie's hands. Great shot, but shouldn't have counted.....

You are officially pathetic. You seriously believe the shot was any less clutch because technically the horn had sounded? I can't believe I have discussions with you. :laugh:

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 03:33 PM
Croshere vs. Ham
Ham with the strength advantage

:laugh:

No offense but I think Chucky Atkins would have a strength advantage over Croshere....he's 6'10" but plays like he's 5'10"......

You have GOT to be kidding....Cro is pretty damn strong...which is why he holds the middle quite often when he plays

Hicks
05-06-2004, 03:34 PM
Croshere vs. Ham
Ham with the strength advantage

:laugh:

No offense but I think Chucky Atkins would have a strength advantage over Croshere....he's 6'10" but plays like he's 5'10"......

:laugh: again. Then you are simply ignorant about Austin Croshere. I'm sorry. I know I sound Yawk-ish, but you really have no idea what you're talking about.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 03:35 PM
I don't think you guys have been any better about stating the facts.

Somehow Tins is going to KILL us because he's supposed to pass the ball anyway? Oh, you mean like Jason Kidd is doing now? :laugh:

Reggie Miller IS as clutch as it gets in this league....now all we need is a time machine to bring him from 1998 to 2004.

As I said before, being clutch and having the ability to knock down a crucial shot with the time expiring DOES NOT DISAPPEAR WITH AGE. I guess you didn't see the series against New Jersey eh?

I saw the clock at 0.0 and the ball in Reggie's hands. Great shot, but shouldn't have counted.....

You are officially pathetic. You seriously believe the shot was any less clutch because technically the horn had sounded? I can't believe I have discussions with you. :laugh:

I could list 485246574 game-winning shots in NBA history that were called back because the clock had expired. Jerry Stackhouse hit one a few days later vs. Boston. But the ref waved it off because it was late.

As I said before, nice shot, but it shouldn't have counted. When you get an extra half-second to get a shot off, its much easier to make those last shots...... :rolleyes:

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 03:37 PM
I don't think you guys have been any better about stating the facts.

Somehow Tins is going to KILL us because he's supposed to pass the ball anyway? Oh, you mean like Jason Kidd is doing now? :laugh:

Reggie Miller IS as clutch as it gets in this league....now all we need is a time machine to bring him from 1998 to 2004.

As I said before, being clutch and having the ability to knock down a crucial shot with the time expiring DOES NOT DISAPPEAR WITH AGE. I guess you didn't see the series against New Jersey eh?

I saw the clock at 0.0 and the ball in Reggie's hands. Great shot, but shouldn't have counted.....

And that was two years and two injuries ago. I didnt see clutch reggie when they needed him last year.

I guess you didn't see as many Pacers' games this year as you have claimed seeing. I guess you don't remember those back breaking threes against Dallas, or his 31 point explosion at the Garden in the first game we played them this year, or all his threes against San Antonio at crucial times, remember, that's when Pop called him an *** since he was feeling it and stuck it to the Spurs. Or when he hit those threes at the end of a recent home game we had against the heat nailing the coffin shut.

And the ball was clearly out of his hands. That's why the officials said it was good. :unimpressed:

Kstat
05-06-2004, 03:37 PM
Croshere vs. Ham
Ham with the strength advantage

:laugh:

No offense but I think Chucky Atkins would have a strength advantage over Croshere....he's 6'10" but plays like he's 5'10"......

:laugh: again. Then you are simply ignorant about Austin Croshere. I'm sorry. I know I sound Yawk-ish, but you really have no idea what you're talking about.

I realize you're Croshere's #1 fan on the planet Hicks, but its true. %95 of what croshere does is stand around the perimeter and jack up long jumpers. He doesn't use his size as ALL. Personally, I think Ham would make a pretzel out of him.

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 03:37 PM
What a retarded thread. Arguing with a bunch if ignorant morons. Geez.

Detroit is a good team. They are very good. But these arguments you give are STUPID.

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 03:38 PM
Go back and look at the replay of that shot against the Nets. The ball was out of his hands before 0.00. It was in the air was 0.00 hit the clock. The referees reviewed the play by video, said it was good. You are lame.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 03:39 PM
I don't think you guys have been any better about stating the facts.

Somehow Tins is going to KILL us because he's supposed to pass the ball anyway? Oh, you mean like Jason Kidd is doing now? :laugh:

Reggie Miller IS as clutch as it gets in this league....now all we need is a time machine to bring him from 1998 to 2004.

As I said before, being clutch and having the ability to knock down a crucial shot with the time expiring DOES NOT DISAPPEAR WITH AGE. I guess you didn't see the series against New Jersey eh?

I saw the clock at 0.0 and the ball in Reggie's hands. Great shot, but shouldn't have counted.....

And that was two years and two injuries ago. I didnt see clutch reggie when they needed him last year.

I guess you didn't see as many Pacers' games this year as you have claimed seeing. I guess you don't remember those back breaking threes against Dallas, or his 31 point explosion at the Garden in the first game we played them this year, or all his threes against San Antonio at crucial times, remember, that's when Pop called him an *** since he was feeling it and stuck it to the Spurs. Or when he hit those threes at the end of a recent home game we had against the heat nailing the coffin shut.

And the ball was clearly out of his hands. That's why the officials said it was good. :unimpressed:

.......if you think that ball was clearly OUT of his hands....you really don't have much of a leg to stand on......you realize that shot was the main REASON why we have instant replay now, right?

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 03:39 PM
Croshere vs. Ham
Ham with the strength advantage

:laugh:

No offense but I think Chucky Atkins would have a strength advantage over Croshere....he's 6'10" but plays like he's 5'10"......

:laugh: again. Then you are simply ignorant about Austin Croshere. I'm sorry. I know I sound Yawk-ish, but you really have no idea what you're talking about.

I realize you're Croshere's #1 fan on the planet Hicks, but its true. %95 of what croshere does is stand around the perimeter and jack up long jumpers. He doesn't use his size as ALL. Personally, I think Ham would make a pretzel out of him.

You really DON'T watch too many pacers games, do you? When Croshere plays, he plays tough in the post. I have no clue what planet you are on.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 03:40 PM
Go back and look at the replay of that shot against the Nets. The ball was out of his hands before 0.00. It was in the air was 0.00 hit the clock. The referees reviewed the play by video, said it was good. You are lame.

SOuthside, you are a moron. And whats more, even your fellow Pacer fans will tell you how wrong you are. I don't have to do it.

Yeah, the refs reviewed the shot and ruled it was good.....WOW you just make up stuff as you go along, dont you?

Kstat
05-06-2004, 03:42 PM
Croshere vs. Ham
Ham with the strength advantage

:laugh:

No offense but I think Chucky Atkins would have a strength advantage over Croshere....he's 6'10" but plays like he's 5'10"......

:laugh: again. Then you are simply ignorant about Austin Croshere. I'm sorry. I know I sound Yawk-ish, but you really have no idea what you're talking about.

I realize you're Croshere's #1 fan on the planet Hicks, but its true. %95 of what croshere does is stand around the perimeter and jack up long jumpers. He doesn't use his size as ALL. Personally, I think Ham would make a pretzel out of him.

You really DON'T watch too many pacers games, do you? When Croshere plays, he plays tough in the post. I have no clue what planet you are on.

Yeah..REALLY tough in the post.....he might post up once every 2 games.. :rolleyes:

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 03:42 PM
Go back and look at the replay of that shot against the Nets. The ball was out of his hands before 0.00. It was in the air was 0.00 hit the clock. The referees reviewed the play by video, said it was good. You are lame.

SOuthside, you are a moron. And whats more, even your fellow Pacer fans will tell you how wrong you are. I don't have to do it.

Yeah, the refs reviewed the shot and ruled it was good.....WOW you just make up stuff as you go along, dont you?

Point is whether or not he made it in time or not. That shot PROVES he is a clutch shooter, and the countless times he has made huge shots this year. I can't even remember them all. To write off Reggie because of his age is ABSURD.

able
05-06-2004, 03:43 PM
What a retarded thread. Arguing with a bunch if ignorant morons. Geez.

Detroit is a good team. They are very good. But these arguments you give are STUPID.

I'm amazed you discovered some arguments in any of their postings, I'm pretty sharp, but can not find one.

Why'd ya think I call it trolling?

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 03:43 PM
Croshere vs. Ham
Ham with the strength advantage

:laugh:

No offense but I think Chucky Atkins would have a strength advantage over Croshere....he's 6'10" but plays like he's 5'10"......

:laugh: again. Then you are simply ignorant about Austin Croshere. I'm sorry. I know I sound Yawk-ish, but you really have no idea what you're talking about.

I realize you're Croshere's #1 fan on the planet Hicks, but its true. %95 of what croshere does is stand around the perimeter and jack up long jumpers. He doesn't use his size as ALL. Personally, I think Ham would make a pretzel out of him.

You really DON'T watch too many pacers games, do you? When Croshere plays, he plays tough in the post. I have no clue what planet you are on.

Yeah..REALLY tough in the post.....he might post up once every 2 games.. :rolleyes:


That's because he only PLAYS once every 2 games. When plays he does play and defend REAL well in the post.

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 03:43 PM
Go back and look at the replay of that shot against the Nets. The ball was out of his hands before 0.00. It was in the air was 0.00 hit the clock. The referees reviewed the play by video, said it was good. You are lame.

SOuthside, you are a moron. And whats more, even your fellow Pacer fans will tell you how wrong you are. I don't have to do it.

Yeah, the refs reviewed the shot and ruled it was good.....WOW you just make up stuff as you go along, dont you?

I think you're the moron. But I must say, I've never met a person who believes they are right as much as you are.

Let me bow down to you. :bowdown:

If only I could be right all the time about everything, just think of what I would be able to accomplish.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 03:44 PM
Go back and look at the replay of that shot against the Nets. The ball was out of his hands before 0.00. It was in the air was 0.00 hit the clock. The referees reviewed the play by video, said it was good. You are lame.

SOuthside, you are a moron. And whats more, even your fellow Pacer fans will tell you how wrong you are. I don't have to do it.

Yeah, the refs reviewed the shot and ruled it was good.....WOW you just make up stuff as you go along, dont you?

Point is whether or not he made it in time or not. That shot PROVES he is a clutch shooter, and the countless times he has made huge shots this year. I can't even remember them all. To write off Reggie because of his age is ABSURD.

Oh no, I was about to conceede that, but Southside_Idiot decided to start making up facts as he went along. Now, all bets are off.

obnoxiousmodesty
05-06-2004, 03:45 PM
I can't believe I'm going to post in this mess...

Yes, the shot Reggie made in Game 5 versus the Nets was a split second late. There wasn't video replay allowed at that time. And yes, as Kstat said, end-of-game replay was inacted in part due to Reggie's shot being counted.

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 03:45 PM
Go back and look at the replay of that shot against the Nets. The ball was out of his hands before 0.00. It was in the air was 0.00 hit the clock. The referees reviewed the play by video, said it was good. You are lame.

SOuthside, you are a moron. And whats more, even your fellow Pacer fans will tell you how wrong you are. I don't have to do it.

Yeah, the refs reviewed the shot and ruled it was good.....WOW you just make up stuff as you go along, dont you?

Point is whether or not he made it in time or not. That shot PROVES he is a clutch shooter, and the countless times he has made huge shots this year. I can't even remember them all. To write off Reggie because of his age is ABSURD.

Oh no, I was about to conceede that, but Southside_Idiot decided to start making up facts as he went along. Now, all bets are off.

Name calling. Real mature. :unimpressed:

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 03:46 PM
Go back and look at the replay of that shot against the Nets. The ball was out of his hands before 0.00. It was in the air was 0.00 hit the clock. The referees reviewed the play by video, said it was good. You are lame.

SOuthside, you are a moron. And whats more, even your fellow Pacer fans will tell you how wrong you are. I don't have to do it.

Yeah, the refs reviewed the shot and ruled it was good.....WOW you just make up stuff as you go along, dont you?

Point is whether or not he made it in time or not. That shot PROVES he is a clutch shooter, and the countless times he has made huge shots this year. I can't even remember them all. To write off Reggie because of his age is ABSURD.

Oh no, I was about to conceede that, but Southside_Idiot decided to start making up facts as he went along. Now, all bets are off.

All bets may be off, but Reggie doesn't care. He still is clutch, until you prove otherwise.

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 03:47 PM
Unless you just want to tell him, "Hey Reggie...you are 38 years old. That means you SUCK! You are a washed up old timer who isn't clutch anymore!"

kerosene
05-06-2004, 03:49 PM
SOuthside, you are a moron. And whats more, even your fellow Pacer fans will tell you how wrong you are. I don't have to do it.

Yeah, the refs reviewed the shot and ruled it was good.....WOW you just make up stuff as you go along, dont you?

I think you're the moron. But I must say, I've never met a person who believes they are right as much as you are.

Let me bow down to you.

If only I could be right all the time about everything, just think of what I would be able to accomplish.

Oh no, I was about to conceede that, but Southside_Idiot decided to start making up facts as he went along. Now, all bets are off.

Thought I logged onto the ESPN forums or something. Stop the name calling.

whodean
05-06-2004, 03:49 PM
Darvin Ham WOULD make a pretzel out of Croshere (pansy)

Just watch Croshere skip down the court, you can tell he's a fairy.

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 03:51 PM
Darvin Ham WOULD make a pretzel out of Croshere (pansy)

Just watch Croshere job down the court, you can tell he's a fairy.

Oh...does he have wings too?? :unimpressed:

Unless you actually WATCH pacers games, don't make ******** comments like that. Croshere would kill Ham. Croshere is a physical player, and unbeknownst to you thick headed pistons fans, he is not a bad player.

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 03:51 PM
Darvin Ham WOULD make a pretzel out of Croshere (pansy)

Just watch Croshere skip down the court, you can tell he's a fairy.

Now that's really insightful. What else can you tell us?

I have a feeling this thread will be on lock down before too long.

Croshere is stronger than people give him credit for. When he plays he does get active and produce. Getting the consistant time is what's missing.

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 03:53 PM
Darvin Ham WOULD make a pretzel out of Croshere (pansy)

Just watch Croshere skip down the court, you can tell he's a fairy.

Now that's really insightful. What else can you tell us?

I have a feeling this thread will be on lock down before too long.

Croshere is stronger than people give him credit for. When he plays he does get active and produce. Getting the consistant time is what's missing.

Oh, you don't want them closing the thread! We have to wait for the Darvin Ham MVP chants!

unstandable
05-06-2004, 03:58 PM
Hopefully in the ECF we can see Ham and Croshere throw down...as an undercard to the Corliss and O'Neal title fight.

whodean
05-06-2004, 03:58 PM
Croshere has been a boat anchor on the Pacers salary cap for years, they would LOVE to get rid of him.

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 04:00 PM
Croshere has been a boat anchor on the Pacers salary cap for years, they would LOVE to get rid of him.

What does that have to do with anything? :whoknows:

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 04:00 PM
Croshere has been a boat anchor on the Pacers salary cap for years, they would LOVE to get rid of him.

No one is denying that they wouldn't mind getting rid of his contract. Calling him a pansy is what is retarded.

obnoxiousmodesty
05-06-2004, 04:00 PM
Croshere has been a boat anchor on the Pacers salary cap for years, they would LOVE to get rid of him.
That's true, but if Austin only made $4 million a year, he'd be an all-around perfect fit.

Kid Minneapolis
05-06-2004, 04:03 PM
I actually read this whole thread!

You all have made facts up. Then claim the others are making facts up, while stating that your facts are the facts and in some cases stating facts for no real good reason. The whole "size" debate? That was all a bunch of horse ****! Neither team has an advantage whatsoever in that regard. Piston fans say the Pistons are bigger, while Pacer fans say Indy is bigger. See a pattern there? HOMERS.

Piston fans, you are on a Pacer forum. :pacers:

Kstat, do you just love to argue *against* the Pacers in every manner available? I lurk this board all the time and your name jumps out at me as someone who just loves to hang out and shoot down any Pacer fan who says something positive about their team.

Piston fans are cocky as hell. They made one mid-season move and all of a sudden think they are a "completely different team" and unbeatable, at that. As if Rasheed Wallace was a stalwart of defense and pillar of behavior in Portland! I'll tell you the real strength of Detroit --- Larry Brown! He's the reason you guys are dangerous. You got *decent* (not exceptional) talent and Brown maximizes that. Carlisle did that too, though!

Detroit didn't even win their own division to our very own Pacers. Please don't discredit that. The Pacers have also won 3 awards this season. How many has Detroit won? You may not like the Pacers, but to come on here and play down everything Indiana has done this year is just plain funny! Detroit has *not proved a damn thing this year*. Before you talk the talk, you probably oughtta have yer team actually produce something with tangibles. For instance, take the Pacers:

1) A DPOY award-winner.
2) First team to every 10-win marker, and the only 60+ game winner in the league.
3) 3rd place MVP vote-getter.
4) Award-winners for Reggie Miller and Jermaine O'Neal
5) 6th man of the year candidate Al Harrington (who many experts argue should have won it)
6) homecourt advantage throughout the playoffs --- including AGAINST the Pistons.

What has Detroit produced???? Nothing! They got a new player mid-season and go on a streak and all of a sudden they're World-Beaters!

I don't hear how Detroit had an exceptional road record like the Pacers or an exceptional record against the west or that Detroit showed a knack of pulling out wins in tight games.

The only advantage I give Detroit over Indiana is defense, but what Detroit fans seem to forget is that Indiana plays defense too, individual and team. It comes down to more than just who plays defense.

So instead of coming on here and just discredittig everything Indiana has done, how 'bout you come on here and acknowledge the truth --- that Indiana is a damn good team and so is Detroit. It would be one helluva battle and no one here can honestly say who would win.

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 04:05 PM
That is a very nice post.

whodean
05-06-2004, 04:06 PM
how 'bout you come on here and acknowledge the truth --- that Indiana is a damn good team and so is Detroit. It would be one helluva battle and no one here can honestly say who would win.

I completely agree, its the fools who say the Pistons have no chance against the Pacers/Spurs who are wrong.

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 04:07 PM
how 'bout you come on here and acknowledge the truth --- that Indiana is a damn good team and so is Detroit. It would be one helluva battle and no one here can honestly say who would win.

I completely agree, its the fools who say the Pistons have no chance against the Pacers/Spurs who are wrong.

I don't know about the Pacers, but I do know that I highly doubt Detroit can beat SA...in fact, I don't think anyone can, including us. They are just playing magnificant.

unstandable
05-06-2004, 04:08 PM
So instead of coming on here and just discredittig everything Indiana has done, how 'bout you come on here and acknowledge the truth --- that Indiana is a damn good team and so is Detroit. It would be one helluva battle and no one here can honestly say who would win.

I don't agree with lots of what you said, but I agree with those last statements.

As for Detroit having done nothing, how about setting an all-time NBA record for consecutive blowout (15+ point) victories. That's something none of the great teams of the past (Jordan's Bulls, Russell's Celtic teams, the Lakers, etc.) ever did.

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 04:09 PM
Great post Kid Minneapolis.

It was level headed, objective, and to the point. I admit, I was not very level headed in my posting, and I do like you as a person Kstat. Just disagree with you a lot, although you do know your basketball.

We've both have been known to be wrong before.

whodean
05-06-2004, 04:09 PM
How a .845 winning percentage with Rasheed?

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 04:12 PM
The thing that Pacers, and Pistons fans must agree on as to the main reason why Indiana had the better record this season was that the Pacers were more consistant during the course of the WHOLE season.

We never lost more than two games in a row, and that's a recipe for success. The Pistons had more highs, and lows than we did.

When the Pistons were winning, we were winning. When the Pistons were losing, we were winning and that's how we were able to maintain that fairly comfortable lead in the division for most of the season.

Both are good teams, Pacers have just been more consistant.

unstandable
05-06-2004, 04:21 PM
That's true. Though the Pistons with Sheed also haven't lost more than two in a row (but of course that's over a 32 game stretch, not an 82 game stretch).

Southside_Pacer
05-06-2004, 04:24 PM
That's true. Though the Pistons with Sheed also haven't lost more than two in a row (but of course that's over a 32 game stretch, not an 82 game stretch).

Which means even WITH Sheed, the Pacers were still clipping along at a pretty good rate. Where the race all year with Sheed on the Pistons' roster would have been more interesting, and probably closer, that doesn't mean that Sheed would have been the different between first and second.

We'll never know however.

unstandable
05-06-2004, 04:28 PM
That's true. Though the Pistons with Sheed also haven't lost more than two in a row (but of course that's over a 32 game stretch, not an 82 game stretch).

Which means even WITH Sheed, the Pacers were still clipping along at a pretty good rate. Where the race all year with Sheed on the Pistons' roster would have been more interesting, and probably closer, that doesn't mean that Sheed would have been the different between first and second.

We'll never know however.

The ECF should give us a pretty good approximation.

Hicks
05-06-2004, 04:30 PM
So instead of coming on here and just discredittig everything Indiana has done, how 'bout you come on here and acknowledge the truth --- that Indiana is a damn good team and so is Detroit. It would be one helluva battle and no one here can honestly say who would win.

:applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

fwpacerfan
05-06-2004, 04:39 PM
I don't think you guys have been any better about stating the facts.

Somehow Tins is going to KILL us because he's supposed to pass the ball anyway? Oh, you mean like Jason Kidd is doing now? :laugh:

Reggie Miller IS as clutch as it gets in this league....now all we need is a time machine to bring him from 1998 to 2004.

As I said before, being clutch and having the ability to knock down a crucial shot with the time expiring DOES NOT DISAPPEAR WITH AGE. I guess you didn't see the series against New Jersey eh?

I saw the clock at 0.0 and the ball in Reggie's hands. Great shot, but shouldn't have counted.....

You are officially pathetic. You seriously believe the shot was any less clutch because technically the horn had sounded? I can't believe I have discussions with you. :laugh:

I could list 485246574 game-winning shots in NBA history that were called back because the clock had expired. Jerry Stackhouse hit one a few days later vs. Boston. But the ref waved it off because it was late.

As I said before, nice shot, but it shouldn't have counted. When you get an extra half-second to get a shot off, its much easier to make those last shots...... :rolleyes:

I don't want you to list all 485246574 game-winning shots that should've been called back but I would like to see you list 25 of them. Please list the player who took the shot, the date and the teams involved.

whodean
05-06-2004, 04:52 PM
I know one that should have been called off, O'Neal's last year against the Pistons.

fwpacerfan
05-06-2004, 04:54 PM
STARTERS
PF...6'11, 242 JO -vs- 6'11, 230 Wallace.
Advantage Pacers
SF...6-7, 246 Artest -vs- 6'9, 215 Prince.
Advantage Pacers
C....6'11, 242 Foster -vs- 6'9, 240 Wallace.
Advantage Pacers
SG..6'7, 195 Reggie -vs- 6'7, 193 Hamilton.
Advantage Pacers
PG..6'3, 195 Tins -vs- 6'3, 202 Billups.
Advantage Pistons



RESERVES
F...7'0, 219 Bender -vs- 7'0, 279 Campbell.
Advantage Pistons
F...6'9, 250 Harrington -vs- 6'7, 245 Williamson.
Advantage Pacers
C..6'11, 265 Pollard -vs- 6'11, 249 Okur.
Advantage Pacers
C..6'10, 242 Croshere -vs-
Since Detroit isn't as deep - Pacers advantage
G..6'2, 218 Jones -vs- 6'2, 195 Hunter.
Advantage Pacers
G..6'3, 190 Johnson -vs- 6'2, 188 James.
Advantage Pacers
.

Here's how this size comparison REALLY goes down:

PF...JO -vs- R. Wallace
wash
SF...Artest -vs- Prince.
Prince has the height and wingspan, Artest the weight advantage Indy
C....Foster -vs- B.Wallace.
Foster has the height, Wallace the weight (and strength) wash.
SG..Reggie -vs-Hamilton.
wash
PG..Tinsley -vs- Billups.
Advantage Pistons

Bench:

Harrington -vs- Williamson.
Harrington with the height advantage, Williamson with the strength wash.
Bender -vs- Okur
Advantage Pistons-Okur is much bigger and stronger
Pollard -vs-Campbell
Advantage Pistons but both don't hardly play so who cares
Johnson-vs- Hunter.
wash
James vs. Jones
Wash
Croshere vs. Ham
Ham with the strength advantage

The argument from a fellow Detroit fan
Pistons have more size is what started this.

I clearly stated with facts and figures (try using them sometime) that this is a false statement and you come back with "no it's not, Prince has longer arms and I think Ham is stronger than Croshere even though I have no proof to support my claim." Every place you said there was a strength advantage I could argue that the Pacers player has a quickness advantage - Bender v. Okur, Al v. Willamson, Cro v. Ham. The question is (supposing your argument that they are stronger is true and I don't think it is in every case) who will use their advantages the best? That will be determined on the floor.

I personally think all of this trash talking is fun and (except for Kstat) name calling has been kept to a minimum even though I think you guys are idiots. ;)

sweabs
05-06-2004, 06:32 PM
I know one that should have been called off, O'Neal's last year against the Pistons.

OH MY GOD I CANT BELIEVE YOU ARE STILL *****ING OVER THAT... :unimpressed: :unimpressed: :unimpressed:
It was definitely the right call and I'm really confused as to why you think differently?

Ohhhhh - wait...thats right...you're just a troll.

able
05-06-2004, 06:48 PM
I know one that should have been called off, O'Neal's last year against the Pistons.

OH MY GOD I CANT BELIEVE YOU ARE STILL *****ING OVER THAT... :unimpressed: :unimpressed: :unimpressed:
It was definitely the right call and I'm really confused as to why you think differently?

Ohhhhh - wait...thats right...you're just a troll.

See his last 3 posts in this thread to prove that beyond doubt.

He should be happy I don't interfere with the running of this board, because he would sure be looking for another place to troll.


:D

whodean
05-06-2004, 07:10 PM
I know one that should have been called off, O'Neal's last year against the Pistons.

OH MY GOD I CANT BELIEVE YOU ARE STILL *****ING OVER THAT... :unimpressed: :unimpressed: :unimpressed:
It was definitely the right call and I'm really confused as to why you think differently?

Ohhhhh - wait...thats right...you're just a troll.

It was proven that the shot clock SHOULD have expired.

sweabs
05-06-2004, 08:01 PM
I know one that should have been called off, O'Neal's last year against the Pistons.

OH MY GOD I CANT BELIEVE YOU ARE STILL *****ING OVER THAT... :unimpressed: :unimpressed: :unimpressed:
It was definitely the right call and I'm really confused as to why you think differently?

Ohhhhh - wait...thats right...you're just a troll.

It was proven that the shot clock SHOULD have expired.

No it wasn't - the call wasn't even questionable...and why are you bringing that up anyways? Get outta here TROLL.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 10:24 PM
:rolleyes:

Yeah, someone starts what amount to a "detroit is overrated" thread whose sole PURPOSE was to lure Piston fans in here, and now you have the nerve to complain when they do? Can't have it both ways.

And I NEVER insult anyone that doesn't insult me first. But once again, IM the only one that get pointed out for it.

And who was the guy that said I am here soley to shoot down any positive Pacers posts. You can kiss my *ss. I've written more positive posts about the Pacers than you have, son. I've written two SONGS about the Pacers this board. I keep people from coming here and trolling. I try to stay out of flame wars, rather I'm usually the one that SETTLES them. But mr. "I post once every 2 months" wants to come here and tell ME what I do? Either become a regular here or be quiet.

I took an exception this time because there was quite a few ridiculous anti-pistons posts, in response to the equally dumb anti-pacers comments and I felt compelled to defend whodean, who isn't any WORSE than half the people who participated in this thread. Just because he's a Piston fan shouldn't mean you ban him and give the pacer fans a free ride.

kerosene
05-07-2004, 12:31 AM
And I NEVER insult anyone that doesn't insult me first. But once again, IM the only one that get pointed out for it.


I don't think I singled you out if that's what you mean. A post from another poster was included and the message was meant for that person as well. Calling people morons or idiots isn't acceptable here and you know that. I think it's time an updated sticky of the rules around here is posted.

If I missed the initial post where someone started the name calling then I apologize, I was at work in the middle of a hectic day, I don't always have to read each and every post in threads like this. I saw what I saw and that's not the sort of thing that flys around here.

I can't imagine how high strung some people around here will be _if_ the Pacers beat the Heat and _if_ the Pistons beat the Nets.

EDIT -

I was at work in the middle of a hectic day, I don't always have TIME to read each and every post in threads like this - that's what I meant.

Kid Minneapolis
05-07-2004, 12:32 AM
"Son", I've been lurking and posting sporadically on the IndyStar site and now this new forum way before I ever remember yer name on the boards, so you "kiss my ***". I've read these forums 3-4 times daily for the past 5-6 years. Just because I choose not to comment often doesn't mean I don't consider this a community I keep close tabs on.

Shade
05-07-2004, 12:58 AM
Yeah, someone starts what amount to a "detroit is overrated" thread whose sole PURPOSE was to lure Piston fans in here, and now you have the nerve to complain when they do? Can't have it both ways.

No, this wasn't posted as a "Detroit is overrated" thread, but I knew it would be taken as such. This was a "Detroit doesn't match up with the Spurs as well as the Pacers do" thread. I personally can't believe it's gotten the number of hits it has. I'm still trying to catch up. :o

Kstat
05-07-2004, 01:30 AM
Yeah, someone starts what amount to a "detroit is overrated" thread whose sole PURPOSE was to lure Piston fans in here, and now you have the nerve to complain when they do? Can't have it both ways.

No, this wasn't posted as a "Detroit is overrated" thread, but I knew it would be taken as such. This was a "Detroit doesn't match up with the Spurs as well as the Pacers do" thread. I personally can't believe it's gotten the number of hits it has. I'm still trying to catch up. :o

Ok, what say I start a "Indy can't beat Sacramento in the finals but Detroit can" thread?

Oh, I'm sure EVERYOEN here will be SO understanding.. :rolleyes:

Suaveness
05-07-2004, 01:38 AM
Yeah, someone starts what amount to a "detroit is overrated" thread whose sole PURPOSE was to lure Piston fans in here, and now you have the nerve to complain when they do? Can't have it both ways.

No, this wasn't posted as a "Detroit is overrated" thread, but I knew it would be taken as such. This was a "Detroit doesn't match up with the Spurs as well as the Pacers do" thread. I personally can't believe it's gotten the number of hits it has. I'm still trying to catch up. :o

Ok, what say I start a "Indy can't beat Sacramento in the finals but Detroit can" thread?

Oh, I'm sure EVERYOEN here will be SO understanding.. :rolleyes:


Feel free to. Just like you disagreed with this thread, we woudl do the same for that one.

sweabs
05-07-2004, 01:38 AM
Update your sig Suaveness!!!

Kstat
05-07-2004, 01:39 AM
Yeah, someone starts what amount to a "detroit is overrated" thread whose sole PURPOSE was to lure Piston fans in here, and now you have the nerve to complain when they do? Can't have it both ways.

No, this wasn't posted as a "Detroit is overrated" thread, but I knew it would be taken as such. This was a "Detroit doesn't match up with the Spurs as well as the Pacers do" thread. I personally can't believe it's gotten the number of hits it has. I'm still trying to catch up. :o

Ok, what say I start a "Indy can't beat Sacramento in the finals but Detroit can" thread?

Oh, I'm sure EVERYOEN here will be SO understanding.. :rolleyes:


Feel free to. Just like you disagreed with this thread, we woudl do the same for that one.

THANK you for proving my poinst, Suave.

Suaveness
05-07-2004, 01:42 AM
Yeah, someone starts what amount to a "detroit is overrated" thread whose sole PURPOSE was to lure Piston fans in here, and now you have the nerve to complain when they do? Can't have it both ways.

No, this wasn't posted as a "Detroit is overrated" thread, but I knew it would be taken as such. This was a "Detroit doesn't match up with the Spurs as well as the Pacers do" thread. I personally can't believe it's gotten the number of hits it has. I'm still trying to catch up. :o

Ok, what say I start a "Indy can't beat Sacramento in the finals but Detroit can" thread?

Oh, I'm sure EVERYOEN here will be SO understanding.. :rolleyes:


Feel free to. Just like you disagreed with this thread, we woudl do the same for that one.

THANK you for proving my poinst, Suave.

:flirt: