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Unclebuck
12-08-2006, 11:38 PM
I was hoping someone else would start this thread because I don't have much to say

Tinsley played a great, great second half and I thought he was the difference tonight

D-BONE
12-08-2006, 11:43 PM
Tins-definitely the best I've seen him play in a while particularly in the third. But the entire team's intensity in that quarter was impressive.

Can we bottle that defensive effort for future use? That's what's gotta become more of a constant.

Thank goodness after a downright embarrassing first half with all those TOs! Looked like me a my weekend warrior buddies at open gym. Pitiful!

ajbry
12-08-2006, 11:46 PM
Agreed, there ain't much to say, except that Jack and Tins are good.

hoopsforlife
12-08-2006, 11:49 PM
Agreed, there ain't much to say, except that Jack and Tins are good.


They are great. not just good. Are you listening GM's around the league. Get these guys while their hot. 2 for one special going on right now. Best tandem in the league. Hurry, hurry, hurry!!!!

Good for at least 1 quarter per month. Step right up, don't be late. :)

hoopsforlife
12-08-2006, 11:57 PM
I'm sorry that you dont watch the Pacers, but Jamaal Tinsley has been probably the best player on this team the past 2 weeks.

Yes, get them while their hot. Step right up....

BlueNGold
12-08-2006, 11:59 PM
Jack is taking it to the hole hard now. That is exactly the way he should be playing. I have slammed on him many times before, but the man is tough and works hard. I definitely respect that. He only hit 1 of 5 from 3pt land. Hopefully he keeps those attempts down.

croz24
12-09-2006, 12:16 AM
jo doesn't play and we win. go figure...

Major Cold
12-09-2006, 12:20 AM
jo doesn't play and we win. go figure...

What does that mean? Exactly nothing. If it were Orlando we would have gotten thumped and you know it. I am tired of the conspiracy theories. Two in a row and just think this was the first time we have played 2 games in a row at home this season.

Jermaniac
12-09-2006, 12:28 AM
jo doesn't play and we win. go figure...
We beat one of the worst teams in the NBA at our house, lets see how we play the Cavs tomorrow, who we already beat this year with Jermaine playing.

quiller
12-09-2006, 12:29 AM
I'm really worried about our next game against Cleveland with out JO.. he killed them last game. Harrington and Granger really need to step it up. But I am so glad they won this game against Portland. This was not a game to loose with the upcoming schedule.

Trader Joe
12-09-2006, 01:35 AM
jo doesn't play and we win. go figure...

and jo didn't play and we lost earlier in the season. go figure...

CableKC
12-09-2006, 02:15 AM
I'm really worried about our next game against Cleveland with out JO.. he killed them last game.

I will really hope that we beat the Cavs on the road....but i really wouldn't be surprised if we end up losing....most notably without JONeal.

maragin
12-09-2006, 02:59 AM
In my opinion, if JO had been playing, this game wouldn't have been close. We were up 13-2, and almost blew the game. We gave them a 32-9 run, and I don't think they get that run on us if we have JO's presence at both ends of the floor. When things get crazy, and our offense gets lost, it helps to have a good go-to post player to help us regain our composure.

We can win without JO. We aren't a better team without JO.

BlueNGold
12-09-2006, 08:27 AM
I have to admit JO will be important against the Cavs in particular. He seems to always play well against them, and I think it is due to matchups. Z cannot guard him and JO can bother Z's shots. Jeff has not handled Z very well IMO. Z just seems to shoot over him.

Maybe the big deal is that Lebron will have a clear path to the basket. Danny and Jack are great defenders, but it takes a backstop like JO at the rim to slow LJ.

hoopsforlife
12-09-2006, 08:31 AM
In my opinion, if JO had been playing, this game wouldn't have been close. We were up 13-2, and almost blew the game. We gave them a 32-9 run, and I don't think they get that run on us if we have JO's presence at both ends of the floor. When things get crazy, and our offense gets lost, it helps to have a good go-to post player to help us regain our composure.

We can win without JO. We aren't a better team without JO.

I disagree. If JO had played we wouldn't have gotten the 13-2 lead in the first place. We would have been down 13-2 and would have had to fight back all game to come close.

This game turned in the second half on the strengh of Jamal Tinsley's play. When he brings intensity he's hard to beat. I wish he would bring it every night. Danny Granger was very intrumental in this game, too. He made some timely drives to the basket and some fortuitous shots. Sarunas played well and Baston was very good in JO's place. Jackson played very well within his capabilities.

Wow, I think I just described a TEAM win, and JO didn't play in it at all. hmmm

Pitons
12-09-2006, 08:53 AM
When Jamaal Tinsley was on the floor his 37 min, the Pacers were +30. He didn't play 11 min of the game and so Pacers won only +13. That's more than impressive.

speakout4
12-09-2006, 09:41 AM
It doesn't matter how you use the stats. Tinsley brings it episodically. Other PGs don't need to ratchet up their game as JT does. I don't know what to expect for any given game or quarter with JT. I would like to see JT more consistent and if he is not get a PG who is because this team needs can't win with half-effort play from their PG

Moses
12-09-2006, 11:53 AM
I disagree. If JO had played we wouldn't have gotten the 13-2 lead in the first place. We would have been down 13-2 and would have had to fight back all game to come close.

This game turned in the second half on the strengh of Jamal Tinsley's play. When he brings intensity he's hard to beat. I wish he would bring it every night. Danny Granger was very intrumental in this game, too. He made some timely drives to the basket and some fortuitous shots. Sarunas played well and Baston was very good in JO's place. Jackson played very well within his capabilities.

Wow, I think I just described a TEAM win, and JO didn't play in it at all. hmmm
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

That's funny. JO would have made a 32-9 run even worse then it was! How do I know this?! Well..uhm..Because I don't like JO much..!!!!

:laugh: :laugh:

Naptown_Seth
12-09-2006, 06:48 PM
First note - my comments about the great fastbreaking is in that "no more breaks..." thread I started the other day.

Tinsley just was killing the Pacers in the first half with his sloppy play. Several poor efforts to protect the ball. Saras was looking just okay, but a little off his recent regular game.

And then there was the 3rd qtr Tinsley turnover - as Chris and QB noted it was like a light switch. From that point on TINSLEY WENT OFF. That's the old Tinsley I've been talking about being missing. Like the DEN game where I complained about his lax game despite making shots, THIS was Tinsley playing his top caliber ball.

He finally denied a RETURN PASS on the PnR, something that's been killing the team. He tipped passes, tipped shots, disrupted dribbles, and most of all moved well with the ball and passed it well too.

WHERE THE BLEEP HAS THIS DUDE BEEN?!? I don't know, but please stay because it's very enjoyable to watch, win or lose.

(this was a lot like Foster in DEN vs Foster in ORL where the stats looked good in both, but clearly his ORL (and POR) effort dwarfed his DEN output)


Baston - I already admitted that Bird was right on Baston. Mace proved it again vs POR. Again, forget blocked shots or dunks. It's his awareness and smart play that I like. He maxes out his spacing on both ends, except for the few times he still makes newbie mistakes, he reads plays well, he forces other teams to play legit. He won't let a defender cheat off him, he'll attack the rim or set a pick or get rebounding position.

He looks like a steal at his salary now. I was surprised to not see him back in sooner in the 2nd half.


Jack - another great game. His play off the ball remains strong, and in the meantime he's finding his outside shot AND attacking the basket even more aggressively than before (though I thought he stayed steady about trying to find inside points even when stuff wasn't falling).

Early in the game that dunk he got on the break came from him starting about 5 steps off the baseline in the corner with THREE Blazers farther upcourt than him. He outran his man and those 3 (including Dixon who was watching Tins at midcourt from his FT line instead of a guy running right past him) to catch the long bomb pass from Tinsley. That's hard core effort.

I watch him off the ball a lot on defense and he rotates and helps as much as any player on the team. He got beat on a pass to Dixon when he came to the lane to cover Pryz after a PnR left Foster having to stop the dribble on the far side and leaving the lane empty. His man made the 3, but at it was the penetration that caused the problem. He at least made them shoot a deep ball rather than a dunk by Pryz. That's why I praise his all-around effort. Big improvement since even last season.


Foster - another classic great Jeff game. Again much better than the DEN game despite the box score. This is why you want Jeff and why the halfcourt works so well for Indy. Great rebounding, good defensive pressure most of the night. I'd say more but I think most people appreciate what Jeff brings.


Al - a little off and on. Mostly good, especially as a #1 offensive threat type. Occassionally he falls asleep on defense or rebounding, but I don't think he ever shows a full game of that kind of play. He wasn't the key to the win, but he was productive along the way.


Saras - solid but not great night. This is what I expect out of him typically, meaning I don't need greatness to not be pleased. He still only got 3 assists to 2 turnovers, he still struggled to stop penetration. He had his share of bad plays and took a lot of shots to get 11 points.

BUT, he was active, he did work well with the ball in the half court, especially with Tinsley (per the norm IMO) and was productive without being the big scorer or without avoiding some mistakes. I'll take that from the #2 PG (just don't mistake it for a starters effort).


Granger - still frustratingly novice. At one point he flat-out LEFT a man with the ball at the FT line to go find "his man". You can't make that mistake even if you see a pass fake or an up-fake. QB tried to blame it all on David, and Dave did also try to find his man (the guy actually near him at least) rather than stop the penetration. Both were wrong, but this is a mistake Danny has made before. He was the guy currently between the ball and the hoop. Even if someone else screwed up and put you there, once there you must stay and do the job.

To me this is a great example of what is wrong with Danny's game right now. He's still having to THINK IT OUT as the play is going on. "oh, this isn't my man, I have to go find my guy". Doesn't make him lazy, doesn't say he doesn't care. It says he just doesn't see the game like a vet yet.

Talent-wise you saw again why you keep Danny and help him learn the game. When given more instinctive moments he flashes incredible atheltic ability and even smart play for the moment. He drove the ball hard again (yes, this makes me very happy) and mixed in the 3 rather than camping the line. He busts his rear to chase down TO breaks even when he can't get there in time. He can get up for a shot block or rebound tip.

At some point he's going to get the slow-down moment where it starts to come together, and at that point he's going to be better than Al I think.

In the meantime it's tough because while he makes the on-the-ball highlights that casual fans love, he's also making some bonehead away-from-the-ball mistakes that make some of this teammates look bad. POR was a perfect example of the good and bad of young Granger.

I think that also makes it tough to teach a 2nd player like Rawle, Powell or Greene because it's hard to deal with so many breakdowns at once. You need a Jack or Foster out there to help cover those a little.


Armstrong - finally found a shot, still love the effort, but his age has shown through the last few weeks. He's a limited time guy and we probably need to accept that. He's not AJ just waiting for 35 mpg regularly. Right now the team has 2 serious PGs, and maybe Greene can develop his offensive game to cover 20-25 on some nights if needed.

But I'm on the "keep DA around" camp if its reasonable. Love the attitude.


Quis - oddly out of the rotation completely most of the night. Not sure what to make of that. I've yet to see him play really poorly to warrant that choice. Could just be the timing of situations and game flow, but RC usually isn't that dramatic about his playing time changes without injury or foul issues.


Harrison - okay rusty I'm sure, but yikes. They tried to PnR him with DA and it was a disaster. However I've always said that only Saras can make that pass to him. And yet they tried that too and it didn't work. He made that stupid swat on the elbow foul just in case we forgot his defense is all about reaching rather than moving.

I think he's gone if they don't see more than that out of him sometime soon. Certainly next summer they'd do something if this season continues at the rate it has for him.

For now as I say I'll let him off on "rust", just like I let the team off on "road weary" with the chance to prove it in upcoming games. Prove to us that it was just rust David. Gotta have improvement now.



PS - Zach's shot, so soft. Very impressive touch for a big. He put shots over Danny and Jeff for nothing but lacy net despite strong defense in his face.

Naptown_Seth
12-09-2006, 07:06 PM
and jo didn't play and we lost earlier in the season. go figure...
Why bother guys, seriously. You think any of these *removed were running anti-JO smack when the Pacers saw a 20 point swing go against them and the game looked dangerously close to getting out of control?

Of course they weren't.

Maybe if Tinsley showed his 2nd half effort every game they'd look better with JO in. Maybe they lost that early lead because Baston went out and Harrison came in, rather than it being JO out and Baston in (ie, the bench was hurt by losing Baston to the starters).

The team isn't JO or nothing, they are a team and have been winning like a team all year (and losing the same way). In fact JO's effort and output has been pretty consistantly strong (did these people SEE the Orlando game vs Dwight Howard), it's the rest of the team that's been up and down with the PGs doing the most dragging behind so far.


And honestly several fans, including myself, already thought they were showing signs of better team play after the Foster-Granger switch. This is what "figuring it out" looks like. It's happening.

If it was just a JO thing then Orlando would have killed them...oh, and I recall the Pacers winning AT Portland with JO playing too and Tinsley not showing the kind of effort we saw last night (0-5, 6 ast, 1 TO, and 23 minutes to Cabbages' 31)


Jack is taking it to the hole hard now. That is exactly the way he should be playing. IHe was a little better about it, but go back and check the shot charts from a month ago. He's been searching around the paint for scores all season. That's why his 3PAs were down from his normal level. Vs ORL he took 14 shots inside the arc vs 3 from deep.

In fact just to show how skewed the anti-Jackson view can be, last night he actually CHUCKED a lot of 3s. He's only shot 5 or more 7 times including last night, and 3 of those were in the first 3 games of the season. Since then he's only gone over 5 3PAs twice (9 and 6).

Meanwhile he's been averaging between 6 and 10 shots inside the arc all year (except for the @ DEN game with only 5 FGA total and the @ LAL game with only 7 total and 1-4 from 3). Many of those are in the paint.

He saw better results vs Portland, but in terms of shot selection I thought it was somewhat on par with his entire season. He just hasn't made shots inside or out, including plenty of blown layups and fastbreaks.

He's been putting the ball in the hoop better for the last week or so. I think it started in TOR which was still NOV, but look at his DEC vs NOV shooting numbers. FG% and 3P% are way up already (46% vs 37% and 31% vs 25%) and still have plenty of room to grow to meet his career average (at least from 3...46% FG the rest of the way would make his FG% just fine).