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ajbry
12-06-2006, 10:16 PM
Nice victory, definitely needed that one badly. Back at .500 and we had strong performances from Jack and Al. Foster was a beast on the boards and really caused some problems against a strong rebounding team.

10-10 ain't too bad through the first 20, I guess.

Destined4Greatness
12-06-2006, 10:17 PM
This topic saddens me, I remember a time when .500 was a let down.

IUColtPacerFan
12-06-2006, 10:19 PM
Great win by the Pacers. They needed that with the harsh schedule they have had so far.

Frank Slade
12-06-2006, 10:19 PM
10-10 Considering the Pacers have played more road games than any other team, and all the slow starts this season, I'll take it ( as if I had any other choice);) .

So why exactly is Harrison in the Bermuda Triangle , I guess I missed that one ?

Lord Helmet
12-06-2006, 10:23 PM
Great team win.

Did anyone see Jeff's postgame interview? He said that fans will look at our record and not really be to happy but they need to realize we've had a tough schedule and said we really need their support to energize us and motivate us.

Great game though, .500 ain't to bad, I think the record will get a little better, too. :cool:

Another thing, Sarunas was going off on passing the ball tonight, damn did you see some of those? Really nice. :thumbsup:

odeez
12-06-2006, 10:45 PM
Yes, we must take this victory back to the .500 mark and never look back. No more .500 ball for Pacers! Now, lets put some wins together!

Great bounce back games for Al and Jack. I would love to see more rebounding like that from Foster, nice!

I didn't get to watch the game, so if anyone who watched can give us some great play highlights and other positive notes, we would greatly appreciate it.

:D;):D:):laugh::cool::rolleyes::D:);)

D-BONE
12-06-2006, 10:45 PM
Amongst this all around good showing, a couple things really struck me.

First, Tins had several burst of energetic play and hustle plays. He got on the floor for a loose ball, went out of bounds after another, and generally just looked focused at least through the first 21/2-3 quarters. I'd like to see that intenstity and passion more often from him.

Ditto the passing by Sarunas. Hope this signals the end of Jack's shooting slump. Finally, I'm really liking what I'm seeing from Baston lately in his limited minutes. He may be as proficient as JO as a shot blocker and, while he may have be far from completely acclimated to the NBA game, he's a scrapper type that will get in their and mix it up and doesn't command the ball.

Big Smooth
12-06-2006, 10:49 PM
This topic saddens me, I remember a time when .500 was a let down.

When I started following the Pacers, the 8th seed was a reason to celebrate. It's all relative. I've seen 50+ loss seasons.

Unclebuck
12-06-2006, 11:13 PM
Just got back from the game.

I don't know how you can watch the Pacers and not appreciate the way Jeff Foster plays - beyond his hustle, his effort, his energy - Jeff brings a certain toughness and aggressiveness to the Pacers that is lacking when he's on the bench. Tonight whenever Jeff went to the bench the Pacers suffered - he just provides a certain intangible that is hard to quantify. But then I'm a sucker for effort guys

Sure Jeff had 18 rebounds and 4 steals, but I counted 4 other times (on the offensive end) that he either tipped the ball or caused the Magic to lose the ball and the Pacers retained the possession.

His defense was pretty good on Howard as well (JO defended him in the first quarter but Jeff did from the first quarter on and he was frustrating Howard a little and overall Jeff defended about as well as you can - especially when you consdier Jeff guarded him without a double team. So while Jeff isn't quite the "Howard stopper" that I called him last season (I was joking, but Peck I think thought I was serious and I wasn't about to set him straight) Jeff defends him well.

One other thing that shouldn't be overlooked, Jeff also kept the league leading rebounder well below his average. Why some people say Jeff doesn't block out is beyond me.

I thought tonights game was all about Jeff he set the tone and I thought Jeff was the key Pacer in the game.

Here are Howards comments after the game

MAGIC FORWARD DWIGHT HOWARD

(on Pacers holding him down in rebounding) "They were doing a lot of stuff, they were holding, pushing, just doing a lot of different things-but we play them one more time – I’m just going to need to play more physical next time and hopefully being at home, get away with it. The Pacers went with a big line-up against us, compared to before. I think that is good for their team. That was a good decision for their coach to do that."
(On Jeff Foster’s defense) "He played pretty good defense tonight. He used his hands and his quickness against me pretty well. But like I said, we’ll see them again

http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/quotes_061206.html


A few other observations:

I loved it when Jamaal dove for the loose ball in the third quarter and skidded across ther floor - he didn't get the ball and he made a foolish foul - but I loved his hustle and for that I cheered that play as loud as I could.

Pacers overall played a very solid game tonight - in many ways that might have been their best game of the season. Great rebounding effort.

One last note, I'm concernd about Orien Greene - the way he dribbles the ball would have been fine in past seasons, but now the refs call it a carry

croz24
12-06-2006, 11:24 PM
just b/c a player puts up a bunch of pts doesn't mean they had a good game. sjax was incredibly turnover prone tonight. there were many plays where he got very lucky he didn't cause a turnover. also, his d was downright pathetic until he had to guard the fearsome jj redick. he was definitely hitting his shot, but i'm not going to be blinded by his shooting performance.

ajbry
12-06-2006, 11:26 PM
just b/c a player puts up a bunch of pts doesn't mean they had a good game. sjax was incredibly turnover prone tonight. there were many plays where he got very lucky he didn't cause a turnover. also, his d was downright pathetic until he had to guard the fearsome jj redick. he was definitely hitting his shot, but i'm not going to be blinded by his shooting performance.

:laugh:

I pity you. One of our best players finally breaks out of his slump and you still feel the need to criticize him, and only him. That's priceless right there.

Eindar
12-07-2006, 12:03 AM
This topic saddens me, I remember a time when .500 was a let down.

I hear there's still a couple spaces left on the Colts' bandwagon. Of course, when Peyton retires in a couple years and the bandwagon throws a rod, you (and the rest of the city) will still be welcome here.

GY!BE
12-07-2006, 12:40 AM
just b/c a player puts up a bunch of pts doesn't mean they had a good game. sjax was incredibly turnover prone tonight. there were many plays where he got very lucky he didn't cause a turnover. also, his d was downright pathetic until he had to guard the fearsome jj redick. he was definitely hitting his shot, but i'm not going to be blinded by his shooting performance.

Did you even watch the game?

Anyways, great game. With this win, plus getting out of that long road trip I think the Pacers might be ready to rattle a couple off in a row.

JO and Foster did an excellent job boxing out Howard, and keeping up with the rebounds. Tinsley and Saras did a decent Job managing the game, and Jax and Harrington were solid presences out there.

A good well rounded game had by all.

Destined4Greatness
12-07-2006, 01:56 AM
I hear there's still a couple spaces left on the Colts' bandwagon. Of course, when Peyton retires in a couple years and the bandwagon throws a rod, you (and the rest of the city) will still be welcome here.

How does me me remembering better times signify me as a bandwagon fan. I think you need to work on your insults, in fact I insult your ability to form clever insults.

And on the S-Jax hate, yeah he had 4 TO's but he also had 6 assists, and I will take a 1.5 Assist/TO ratio any day of the week.

Naptown_Seth
12-07-2006, 02:06 AM
I ripped Foster's pseudo-rebound total after the Denver game. This game showed you why. Two identical numbers, a MASSIVELY different impact on the game. Every board Jeff pulled tonight was meaningful and generally contested. When I was blasting his game in Denver it was in comparison to something more like what you saw tonight. In other words it wasn't Jeff vs other people, it was good Jeff vs bad Jeff. I prefer good Jeff.


So JO goes to LA and can't miss a crazy, difficult jumper. He gets back to Conseco and struggles to drop any of them. Go figure. Otherwise he was strong again, really impressive vs Howard. All of his boards were tough ones as well and he really gave Howard fits with his defense. Really impressive to in my mind outplay Howard like that.

Jack impressed me mostly because he made the effort to start his offense inside and then work it back out to the arc. You look at the last 7 games and you see several good shooting nights, so maybe he's kicking that slump.

Jack had one moment that was typical good and bad Jack. He tried to feed the post over Hill and Hill tipped it for the steal. So Jack learns and a few sets later he fakes the over pass and bounces it in clean....only problem is that after halftime he came out and went right back to going over Hill and his pass went out of bounds baseline over Foster's head.

To me that sums up Jack. Makes good adjustments and also mental mistakes that he should know better than. I will say this, he got burned by Hill early in the game after being moved onto him (too much for Harrington) and he was livid with himself, you could see it. He chewed himself out after getting burned. I like to see that with him. He needs that fire to keep himself focused and cut down mistakes like the one I listed above.


Baston - I owe the dude an apology, he's legit. Again, it's NOT the blocks or dunks, I expected that. He's played the last 2 games extremely SMART. He's getting himself where he needs to be, he's helping set up plays for other players. In short, its a lot more than just effort that's creating good situations for him.

I thought he was overmatched by the NBA, especially after camp. I wanted him cut to keep White. I was wrong. He's obviously ahead of both Harrison and Powell now and seems locked in to that role with the kind of play he showed the last 2 games.


Sarunas put on a couple of pretty impressive defensive moments. He still got crossed and left in the dust several times, but one good example featured Arroyo starting to dance on him a little with repeat under leg crosses, trying to get him to bite. Cabbages held his ground and forced Arroyo to give up and pass rather than risk the bad position drive attempt.


Tinsley was similar in that regard. While he struggled heads-up he showed great team defense hustle, he doubled aggressively several times, broke up a couple of passes and for the most part played pretty decent team defense.


My play of the game - Quis and Jack saving a ball and then taking a broken situation and turning it into brilliant, basic 2-man game. Rather than just rush into anything after the scramble, which often happens, they each respaced and passed between each other to put the defense back on the ropes. This eventually led to Jack getting the pass behind his man for the score at the rim.

I liked it because of the type of ball it was, but more so because of the teamwork and chemistry it required, the DESIRE to play that way, and the control to not make the more common choice of going one on one at that point and forcing it.


To me that play represented what we saw all night from he team. GREAT half court ball movement (one of the 1st quarter plays, a missed FG in the end, feature outstanding ball movement to get the open look. I'd bet every player touched the ball at least twice on the play. It as clear by then that they had brought their A-game in terms of ENERGY and WILL.

Drastic improvement in effort from the LA and Denver games.

One of the few truly good all-around team efforts all season. I was very pleased and could easily overlook the various mistakes everyone was making.


I even saw Granger drive to the lane (missed it, but still) and one break where a guy actually scored without having to fake out a defender or turn a layup into a jumpshot in order to score.

To me they proved that the road weary angle was as legit as it appeared, and wasn't a drop in chemistry or interest.


Note, the Pacers have officially at least split the season series with the best team in the East. And they only lost by 5 in Orlando the first time.

@CLE, @CHI, DET coming after the POR game. This gives the team a chance to make a solid statement about how much they plan to compete in the East this year. A win in CLE would get at least a split in that series too, which would be big IMO.

Naptown_Seth
12-07-2006, 02:13 AM
Great team win.

Did anyone see Jeff's postgame interview? He said that fans will look at our record and not really be to happy but they need to realize we've had a tough schedule and said we really need their support to energize us and motivate us.

Great game though, .500 ain't to bad, I think the record will get a little better, too. :cool:

Another thing, Sarunas was going off on passing the ball tonight, damn did you see some of those? Really nice. :thumbsup:
Yeah, Jeff all but outright said that they had run out of gas on the road. He said he got 10 hours of sleep last night and that RC moved the shootaround till later which gave him a chance to spend time with his twin babies.

You assume similar situations went on with the rest of the team. It showed on the court.



Saras has been playing A LOT better the last week or so and I've been commenting on it. People think I was on his game because I don't like him, but that's not the truth at all. He wasn't playing as well when I was getting on his game.

Well he's been bringing the game we saw the first few months last year...in fact I think he looks better right now than he did last year, despite the shooting numbers being below that. To me he looks like a player that has had his "click" moment where it all starts to come together and you "get" the game.

I hope it's for real and stays this way all year. He and Baston are showing that they might yet be real difference makers for the team this year. How could a die-hard like myself not like that?


One last note, I'm concernd about Orien Greene - the way he dribbles the ball would have been fine in past seasons, but now the refs call it a carryBuck, I mentioned this exact issue in the "Greene should start" thread. I instantly noticed it, probably like you did it sounds. With the calls this year it stood out and I was thinking "man, I can't believe they are letting him do that". Not long after that they stopped him.

Speaking of - Tinsley pulling that forward dribble into a turn sideways and hang on to the ball while you do move. Was that blatent or what. Not sure why guys think they can still pull those types of moves. I love that the NBA has been enforcing that stuff so much more.


Oh also HARRINGTON TRAVELED on that last second layup. It wasn't even close. When I was watching it I said "how many steps was that, 4 or 5". :) Tivo says 3 at least and technically I think 4. Couldn't believe that went by the refs. Big time charity, I guess for the speed of the play and his effort.

croz24
12-07-2006, 02:15 AM
Did you even watch the game?

Anyways, great game. With this win, plus getting out of that long road trip I think the Pacers might be ready to rattle a couple off in a row.

JO and Foster did an excellent job boxing out Howard, and keeping up with the rebounds. Tinsley and Saras did a decent Job managing the game, and Jax and Harrington were solid presences out there.

A good well rounded game had by all.

was at the game and witnessed grant hill have his way with sjax in the 1st q to a tone of 14pts. only then, did carlisle switch sjax onto someone else.

Eindar
12-07-2006, 05:44 AM
How does me me remembering better times signify me as a bandwagon fan. I think you need to work on your insults, in fact I insult your ability to form clever insults.

And on the S-Jax hate, yeah he had 4 TO's but he also had 6 assists, and I will take a 1.5 Assist/TO ratio any day of the week.

Your constant gibes and negative remarks signify you as a potential bandwagon fan.

If I wanted to insult you, I would.

Kegboy
12-07-2006, 09:24 AM
Your constant gibes and negative remarks signify you as a potential bandwagon fan.

Oh, please. I'm not one to defend D2G, but this pervasive line of thinking is getting ridiculous.

Shade
12-07-2006, 10:17 AM
Seth,

I would not put Baston above Powell. Powell has gotten nearly zero playing time this season, but I think he'll be the better of the two players without a doubt. I like Baston, but Powell is being very underrated, and I wish he would get more PT.

The Pacers seem to look best when they -- TA DA! -- decide to play some defense. Turnovers don't hurt quite as badly if you can get a few stops along the way.

Skaut_Ech
12-07-2006, 10:35 AM
Baston - I owe the dude an apology, he's legit. Again, it's NOT the blocks or dunks, I expected that. He's played the last 2 games extremely SMART. He's getting himself where he needs to be, he's helping set up plays for other players. In short, its a lot more than just effort that's creating good situations for him.

I thought he was overmatched by the NBA, especially after camp. I wanted him cut to keep White. I was wrong. He's obviously ahead of both Harrison and Powell now and seems locked in to that role with the kind of play he showed the last 2 games.

Sarunas put on a couple of pretty impressive defensive moments. He still got crossed and left in the dust several times, but one good example featured Arroyo starting to dance on him a little with repeat under leg crosses, trying to get him to bite. Cabbages held his ground and forced Arroyo to give up and pass rather than risk the bad position drive attempt.


These are the two guys I've been most wanting to watch this season. I daresay, they are my favorite Pacers, right now. I think you hit upon why I like Maceo. He was roundly dismissed, mainly because most people didn't know him. I've had a man-crush on Maceo for years, as some can attest. He's not a starter, and never will be, but I think he's is, and can be an extremely solid bench player.

Thinking he was overmatched was simply a product of re-aclimation to the NBA, far as I was concerned. Maceo is an ego-less player and that's kinda rare in the NBA, as you know. My vision of him at season's start was as our 7th man and a glue-guy.

I was fascinated by the Cabbage/Arroyo matchup. Slow, veteran player VS cocky, brash speedster. Yeah, Arroyo did blow past Cabbage quite a few times, but it was funny how our coaching staff and Saras adapted. They knew Arroyo overrelies on his speed, so Saras started sitting back on his haunches, giving Arroyo room to take a jumper, if he cared to, then allowed himself enough cushion room to alter Arroyo's path to the basket. He wasn't going to be able to stop him, but he started making Carlos work much harder than he wanted to get to the basket. I liked seeing us adapting.

I've made no secret that I don't care for this team, as it's comprised, but for me, I think Saras and Maceo can be difference makers in a playoff seriees, given we do something with our starting crew. But that's another discussion.

Seed
12-07-2006, 11:41 AM
I've been watching Maceo in the last years. The guy has made a huge transformation during his years in Europe. Mostly due to the nature of the players he played along with. I think he is yet to improve this season, if given the PT & confidence.
Something that I can tell for sure about him - he isn't the kind of guy who creates his own shots. It is absolutely critical for his offense that he'd be paired with unselfish guys who can exploit his movement without the ball. This doesn't have to be the PG. Last year in Maccabi he was mostly scoring as a trailer, fed by the center, Vujcic.

Isaac
12-07-2006, 11:48 AM
Jeff was great yesterday, that's as good as Jeff gets. I cringed when he launched that bomb from about 20 feet out though, but he almost got it to drop. He has turned in to the Dwight Howard stopper, he did a great job on him defensively, couldn't imagine a better job neutralizing him. He made Dwight a non-factor.

I love Jamaal's play yesterday. He didn't fill the stat sheet like he has in some of his other big games this year, but he played well. He meshed in with the offense, and hit a really big 3 when it looked like Orlando might make a run. Plus, he really hustled hard yesterday and it was amazing to see him blow by Arroyo on that race to the loose ball in the 4th(?) quarter. Too bad he landed on the ball.

Destined4Greatness
12-07-2006, 11:50 AM
Eindar, do you realize, that Bandwagon fans don't continue to follow the team when they are unhappy, I am following the team, I am unhappy, thus damn 2 and 2 together is so hard.

Unclebuck
12-07-2006, 12:09 PM
I like the way Baston plays - unlike Harrison I get excited when Baston comes off the bench.

hoopsforlife
12-07-2006, 06:27 PM
I like the way Baston plays - unlike Harrison I get excited when Baston comes off the bench.

UB: Why should Harrison get excited when Baston comes off the bench? He is taking his spot. ;)

D-BONE
12-07-2006, 06:32 PM
I like the way Baston plays - unlike Harrison I get excited when Baston comes off the bench.

I'm with you 100%. In fact, Powell excites me more than Harrison, too. Neither he nor Baston is a true, traditional pivot in terms of size and/or style, but they are guys that play hard and bring a controlled, dare I say mature, intenstiy. Something we really needed an infux of with this group.

#31
12-07-2006, 07:04 PM
I pity you. One of our best players finally breaks out of his slump and you still feel the need to criticize him, and only him. That's priceless right there.

Yep you are right Ajbry. One of our "best players" broke out of his "slump" that game and increased his percentages / averages to
a Whopping 37% FG..
a Whopping 26% 3PT FG..
a Whopping 74% FT..
a Whopping 2 Rebounds per game..
a Whopping 3 assists per game..
and a Whopping 12 PPG..

Which actually is not a Slump that he averages this "GOOD", its actually his career averages aswell.. so we cant say that he is in a "SLUMP"... This IS how good he is and YES he is our Starting Guard....

AJbry, i like how you respect SJAX and always protect him, but can you please be Honest, i really think you are not honest and i think you are probably being Ironic everytime you say that SJAX got Skills / Talent / One of our best players (well, he is one of our 10 best players i can agree) and so on.

Even if you are Honest, i just cant get in my mind man, i just cant, its like if i said that Tinsley has never had a Injury in his life even tho everybody knows the truth and i still keep fighting and saying that he never had a Injury in his life and keep asking people why everybody saying bad words about him sometimes.... you know? Its like if its 1st day of April and i never reveal to everybody that i just joked... you are something really special Ajbry! :-o

ajbry
12-07-2006, 07:46 PM
I really don't care what you think, honestly. I find Jack haters to all be of the same mold and their arguments get predictable after the first time you hear it.

Jack is a good player. Ask anyone who knows anything about basketball whom is not some ridiculously sensitive Pacers fan and they'll agree with you.

Some of you seem surprised he hasn't played well offensively this season. He's only facing trial and was practically demolished by a car, yet he still fights through it and plays every night, regardless of the circumstance. What more do you want? Oh, I forgot, we need to start Rawle Marshall and Marquis Daniels, since they're so amazing.

Eindar
12-07-2006, 08:00 PM
Eindar, do you realize, that Bandwagon fans don't continue to follow the team when they are unhappy, I am following the team, I am unhappy, thus damn 2 and 2 together is so hard.

Some bandwagon fans wait till the ship is just about to go under, then they jump off to avoid the suction. Maybe you learned it from Titanic. :)

Regardless, the next positive comment I hear out of your mouth will be the first.

PacerMan
12-07-2006, 08:57 PM
:laugh:

I pity you. One of our best players finally breaks out of his slump and you still feel the need to criticize him, and only him. That's priceless right there.


You think Jax is one of our best players! That's priceless right there!