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Unclebuck
12-03-2006, 12:34 AM
There isn't much to say about this loss, it was predictable, in fact as far back as August when the schedule came out I knew the pacers would lose this one and lose big. Four games in 5 nights, 5 games in seven nights all on the road, all in different cities. This was a schedule loss.

The team defense is concerning as I mentioned in the game thread.

I've been thinking this for a few weeks now (and I will expound on this much more in the coming days) the pacers help/team defense is horrible. And for that I blame the coaching. I think Person and Burke are in charge of the defense, so I blame them. The only help defense we ever get is a JO block shot. But he's probably had more opportunities than any guy in the league because we get beat so badly off the dribble, and then we stand there and pray that JO will block it. Where is the first line of help - it's non-existant. When the point guard gets beat (which is often), the whole team needs to shift - and I see none of that. The team defense needs a ton of work and really needs to go back to a training camp type setting

Sadly the defensive system reminds me of the Isiah years

Doug
12-03-2006, 12:37 AM
My 11 year old daughter is taller than Earl Boykins.

That's the only real comment I have on tonight's game. I just wasn't that into it. And neither, really were the Pacers, I guess.

AesopRockOn
12-03-2006, 12:44 AM
My 11 year old daughter is taller than Earl Boykins.


So is Saras but but EB still managed to torch him.

You could call it a schedule loss if you want to UB, but the fact is that no one played any defense and nobody outside of JT, JO or JF wanted to win this game. This is a real downer. Yesterday's loss was one where you yell at the screen; right now, you're just staring at the wall. There are bad losses and this one was disgraceful.

Props though UB. I wasn't sure if anyone would have the ambition to start a post game thread about this one.

Unclebuck
12-03-2006, 12:50 AM
So is Saras but but EB still managed to torch him.

You could call it a schedule loss if you want to UB, but the fact is that no one played any defense and nobody outside of JT, JO or JF wanted to win this game. This is a real downer. Yesterday's loss was one where you yell at the screen; right now, you're just staring at the wall. There are bad losses and this one was disgraceful.

Props though UB. I wasn't sure if anyone would have the ambition to start a post game thread about this one.

I would love to know the win/loss records of teams that have played 5 roads games in seven nights and 4 road games in 5 nights - I bet over the past 10 years it is probably around 10% - with the average margin probably 15 - 20 points

I'm not making an excuse, just stating a fact. I'm not happy about how the Pacers played tonight - but this is a game I can just throw out. 3 seasons ago when the pacers won 61 games and the Nuggets I think won fewer than 20 games, the pacers played the Nugs on a Saturday night and I think it was either a 5 in 7 or a 4 in 5 and the pacers lost by double digits.

I always post after every game win or lose.

Calgary Jazz
12-03-2006, 12:58 AM
Nuggets played back to back as well, so except homecourt advantage fatique shouldn't be an excuse. Pacers just played no defense tonight.

Unclebuck
12-03-2006, 01:05 AM
Nuggets played back to back as well, so except homecourt advantage fatique shouldn't be an excuse. Pacers just played no defense tonight.


This is the last I'm posting on this as I'm going to sleep. But there is a huge difference between playing back to back and playing 5 games in 7 nights all on the road. The Nuggets prior to last night at Minnesota had played 3 straight home games each one with a day off in between and they had two days off before the Friday night game in Minneapolis.

Destined4Greatness
12-03-2006, 01:11 AM
OK so I couldn't watch how ugly was this? And yes I understand 5 games in 7 night, but it still looks like it was ugly.

Naptown_Seth
12-03-2006, 01:25 AM
Foster and Tinsley???? You want to give THEM effort credit. They were 2 of the biggest problems in the game. Two players I actually like by the way.


Foster - when are 12 offensive rebounds fake? Check the tape tonight. I counted about 6 legit total rebounds by him. EVERY OTHER ONE came off his own 1 foot miss or was a rebound he got and then proceded to miss from 1 foot away. At one point he had an UNCONTESTED offensive board in front of the rim and gave it a crazy volleyball swat way off the board instead of grabbing in and either dunking or putting up a controlled shot.

No freaking way he gets credit. NINE MISSES - all right at the rim. EIGHT OF THOSE 9 come immediately off his O-board total because they were either coming off blown original great looks guys got him or blown put-backs at the rim.

One of his 3 makes was the dunk he got on a broken play - the pathetic "play of the game", coming with the game already getting out of hand.

If you don't believe me just go rewatch the game and count the number of those O-boards that should have just been scores and an assist for someone else in the first place, or ended up becoming nothing when he put a crap tip off the rim and then Denver collected that miss and went the other way.

Meanwhile he got burned by Najera several times. He also appeared unready for many passes and fumbled stuff away. It's only a technicality that he only had 1 TO.

If you didn't see the game, don't believe the hype on this one. Check Jeff's shot chart if you don't believe me - he had ONE MISS not listed as a ZERO FOOT MISS - that's 8 misses at the rim. Dude should have had 20 easy points right at the rim and about 7 rebounds. If he'd done that THEN he would have been part of the solution.


Tinsley - okay, his shot was on, he worked into the post as well as the lane for jumpers. He did manage 8 assists, though I'm not sure when and where exactly. Most of the night he looked totally lethargic as well, he threw all sorts of goofy stuff around the court, passes people weren't looking, lots of low energy efforts to get the ball to people, and of course almost no sign of defense other than knocking one pass away for a steal (which the Pacers promptly blew on a break).

Now unlike Foster, Tinsley did get those shots falling which helped keep the Pacers around for awhile, but he was creating problems nearly as much. In the end he was somewhat of a positive, but not nearly to the extent the numbers might suggest.



Now I agree with UB about this being a schedule loss. You could clearly see that when they came out of the locker room they were nearly asleep, and I don't mean figuratively. This looked like a bunch of dog tired guys who had just worked up a sweat and then sat for 15 minutes and worn down. I'm not sure how much the altitude has an effect inside the arena but this looked like guys that weren't used to it and ran out of energy.

I don't want Jeff benched, nor Tinsley. I appreciate that down the stretch Jeff stuck it out and made a few good plays (this is where his legit boards came from) and that Tins was shooting well. I'm just saying that don't for second say that they showed up and the rest of the team didn't.

I thought Saras showed more energy than Tinsley, and at one point Saras actually denied Melo a dribble drive even. It wasn't the norm, normally he and Armstrong were getting beat worse than Tinsley (which seems to be the standard lately, DA really got torched by Earl). But Saras looked like he was playing his regular level.

JO looked solid too. I think Jack was there till he apparently got hurt. Coming out of halftime he looked iffy, like on that transition foul where he just gave it no effort, but if he was hurt at some point before that then I understand that. In the first half Jack was solid, and eventually after Harrington and Granger got abused by Melo they put Jack on him.

The only problem with Jack on Melo was height which allowed him to pull up a couple of shots and pass into a cutter over him once, but otherwise I think Jack on Melo was a better matchup.


People think I'm full of it on Danny I suspect, but he had problems again tonight. Okay, Melo is a bad dude, no quesiton. But he got moved off him and still got burned. At one point he got caught watching Melo getting doubled in the lane and forgot that he was guarding Smith, a guy who'd already been heating up from 3. He wasn't defending Melo and unless the Pacers have decided to triple team guys there was no reason for Danny to get caught where he was, no-man's land watching the ball. Boom, Smith drops a triple easily on a Melo kick-out.

This happened to Granger several times, as well as being beat off the dribble. He really struggled defending Smith, which said to me that he is in no way ready to get anywhere near the 2.

Danny's offense looked a little better, he is looking inside the arc a little more I think. Hard to tell with the rough flow of the game.


Daniels had troubles with Melo was well, but he typically played him reasonably tough. Man is MD crafty with his dribble too. Decent night from him till it hit garbage time and he started looking more like "who cares" with the rest of the team.


BTW, Jack's 0-5. Well 2 (at least) were blown fast breaks and really he typically wasn't invovled in the offense much, at least as an end result. He fed the post and stuff a few times, one time with a bad pass for a turnover and breakaway score the other way. But really he wasn't harming the offense, and during the first half the whole team looked moderately good, certainly capable of winning the game.


Al got to meet Melo and it was a terrible defensive matchup for him, so he sat with fouls most of the game. But when he played his offense looked solid enough to make up for the Melo problem on the other end. Without the foul trouble and without Jack injured this might have been a bit closer game....though I'd swear they came out of the locker room stoned. ;)

Big Smooth
12-03-2006, 01:27 AM
This is the last I'm posting on this as I'm going to sleep. But there is a huge difference between playing back to back and playing 5 games in 7 nights all on the road. The Nuggets prior to last night at Minnesota had played 3 straight home games each one with a day off in between and they had two days off before the Friday night game in Minneapolis.

It is still an excuse. It's not like the Pacers are the only team the league who face these situations.

ajbry
12-03-2006, 01:28 AM
If someone had told me that Jeff Foster would have 12 shot attempts (and miss 9 of them), and Jack would have 0 points, I wouldn't have believed it, and I certainly wouldn't think we could have won.

At least we're still .500 and it came during a rough stretch of games, so there's still a decent amount of hope for this team.

Destined4Greatness
12-03-2006, 01:39 AM
LOL at Naptown, a rebound is a rebound. If it was such a nothing rebound he still gave the effort and got it instead of somebody else getting it. 18 Rebs=Effort

Naptown_Seth
12-03-2006, 01:42 AM
Oh, Baston - this was a reminder that I'm not just a hater to say that Baston isn't really NBA ready. He's going to have his moments, but he's spot play ready only. Having to go to him partly due to Al's fouls but also due to whatever was going on with Foster inside in the first half, you got to see that Baston is not ready to mix it up with too many opponents' starters on the court.

His turnovers were the ugly kind. 5-10 minutes here and there okay, but otherwise I hope his PT is limited at least until later in the season when he has hopefully picked up things better. He shows potential, I think he can get better this season, but the people saying "start Baston" and stuff like that...come on already.

Also that worthless 3 point shot by Daniels probably gave the scrubs a +1 in the final 6 or so, but till then they'd actually been losing to Miller and 4 DEN scrubs. In other words Saras, Powell, Baston, Rawle and MD didn't prove anything themselves when they had the chance. The rotation is the way it is right now for good reason. If you can't beat scrubs then you aren't ready to start no matter what the +/- season total looks like.


Play of the Game (the real one) - MELO GOES DR. J UNDER THE BACKBOARD
Seeing that was worth watching the game. It was an insane play, and unlike some "toss it up and get lucky" plays, this was a legit effort that didn't feel or look the least bit lucky. It looked identical to Dr. J's famous shot.

Much better than the pretty impressive reverse layup Ray Ray made the other night.

Naptown_Seth
12-03-2006, 01:48 AM
LOL at Naptown, a rebound is a rebound. If it was such a nothing rebound he still gave the effort and got it instead of somebody else getting it. 18 Rebs=Effort
Did you watch the game?

If you do a tip drill off the backboard to yourself it's still a rebound. Is it the same as a contested rebound that keeps a play alive and gives the team a score?

And besides, if a rebound is a rebound, then EIGHT ZERO FOOT MISSES are still EIGHT ZERO FOOT MISSES. EIGHT. Read it, learn it, repeat it. The guy missed 8 shots at the rim, and all of them were extremly makable situations.


Again, every single one of those 8 misses at the rim either became an offensive rebound (meaning should have just been a score with no rebound) or came off a rebound that was promptly put back and missed badly and given right back to Denver (meaning that they were identical to if Denver had just rebounded in the first place).

Tonight Jeff got a lot of credit just for touching the ball. When KG grabs an offensive board and then goes up and dunks it, that's not the same as Jeff slapping a loose ball 2 feet left of the rim and into Camby's hands.

You think it is and you're laughing at me? Okay. Let me sell you a Kia for the price of a Porsche, I mean a car is a car right?

Quis
12-03-2006, 01:55 AM
An offensive rebound is an offensive rebound. Jeff may have been rebounding his own misses, but how is that any different than rebounding one of Stephen Jackson's approx. 400 misses a game?

Jumper
12-03-2006, 02:35 AM
20 pts, 16 rbs, 4 ast, 2 bs coming from a guy who was a gametime decision because of his hamstring. I know this was a loss and I know it was ugly at that, but JO is slowly becoming the one who we signed for the mega deal. I looked at this team and really would have been happy with a .500 record at the All star break. I think it is apparent with the talent that is around we can be much better off than that barring injury. This team is gonna be dangerous come the end of the season, just you wait...

Unclebuck
12-03-2006, 09:39 AM
Everyone knows or should know that I'm probably the biggest Jeff Foster fan anywhere, but I have to agree with Seth here. Jeff wasn't right the whole game and his 12 offensive rebounds were a fraud. But at least Jeff played hard and for that I give him credit, but his legs must have been shot because he couldn't make a layup.

D-BONE
12-03-2006, 10:00 AM
Agree that Denver was a no win scenaro taking into account the arduous schedule and our history playing there.

Looking at this trip as a whole, our D is looking really porous and it seems we are not progressing whatsoever in terms of protecting the basketball. In fact, seems that the TOs are coming in all situations entirely too much, not only in attempts to push the tempo.

A win in LA, which IMO would be unexpected given the same rationale above in terms of the Nugs, at least would create an overall positive 6 game trip.

Trader Joe
12-03-2006, 02:23 PM
JO and Tins played well. I thought Al would have had another big game if he didn't get strapped with the fouls.

A-Train
12-03-2006, 03:44 PM
It is still an excuse. It's not like the Pacers are the only team the league who face these situations.


I'm not making an excuse, just stating a fact.

:cool:

ALF68
12-03-2006, 06:05 PM
Yeah, let's blame the hardest working Pacer for this loss, not to mention the posters name as to not invoke the wrath of the gods here.

Naptown_Seth
12-03-2006, 06:32 PM
Everyone knows or should know that I'm probably the biggest Jeff Foster fan anywhere, but I have to agree with Seth here. Jeff wasn't right the whole game and his 12 offensive rebounds were a fraud. But at least Jeff played hard and for that I give him credit, but his legs must have been shot because he couldn't make a layup.
I like Foster quite a bit. I usually consider him one of the most athletic guys on the team. But it's not because of play like he showed vs Denver. If last night was his normal game I'd want him gone. He can do much better than that.

And I hyped it because box score hunters see all those O-boards and think "boy, Jeff was on it". No, he wasn't.

In the "fast break" thread I just posted his first O-board - a missed tip off a fastbreak layup miss by Jack (also poor) that just went to DEN when it didn't go in. That's a box line of 0-1 FG, 1 OREB. That's why I say that you take all those FG misses and subtract them from his OREB numbers, because each of them resulted in nothing or came from a shot that shouldn't have been missed in the first place.


Honestly Jeff just looked as sluggish and disinterested as the rest of the team. I also thought the guys were a little testy. I thought I saw Jeff and JO arguing about a defensive breakdown that I don't think had anything to do with either of them. I wasn't sure what either of them were apparently upset about, but they pointed and seemed uptight about it.

I chalked that stuff up to also being tired, as in grumpy tired. Don't want to be there, quick to get upset, stupid things bugging you. That's my summary of the overall team effort.



Jeff may have been rebounding his own misses, but how is that any different than rebounding one of Stephen Jackson's approx. 400 misses a game?
You really don't know? That explains some of your other postings then.

You have a layup and you miss it. You rebound it and miss again. You rebound and score.

VS

You have a layup and you make it.

Repeat this 4 times

4-12 FG, 8 OREB

VS

4-4 FG, 0 OREB

Who was the better player, the guy that just scored the shots he should make, or the one that made a tip-drill adventure out of them that let the other team have a shot at rebounding it themselves?

ALF68
12-03-2006, 07:02 PM
I like Foster quite a bit. I usually consider him one of the most athletic guys on the team. But it's not because of play like he showed vs Denver. If last night was his normal game I'd want him gone. He can do much better than that.

And I hyped it because box score hunters see all those O-boards and think "boy, Jeff was on it". No, he wasn't.

In the "fast break" thread I just posted his first O-board - a missed tip off a fastbreak layup miss by Jack (also poor) that just went to DEN when it didn't go in. That's a box line of 0-1 FG, 1 OREB. That's why I say that you take all those FG misses and subtract them from his OREB numbers, because each of them resulted in nothing or came from a shot that shouldn't have been missed in the first place.


Honestly Jeff just looked as sluggish and disinterested as the rest of the team. I also thought the guys were a little testy. I thought I saw Jeff and JO arguing about a defensive breakdown that I don't think had anything to do with either of them. I wasn't sure what either of them were apparently upset about, but they pointed and seemed uptight about it.

I chalked that stuff up to also being tired, as in grumpy tired. Don't want to be there, quick to get upset, stupid things bugging you. That's my summary of the overall team effort.



You really don't know? That explains some of your other postings then.

You have a layup and you miss it. You rebound it and miss again. You rebound and score.

VS

You have a layup and you make it.

Repeat this 4 times

4-12 FG, 8 OREB

VS

4-4 FG, 0 OREB

Who was the better player, the guy that just scored the shots he should make, or the one that made a tip-drill adventure out of them that let the other team have a shot at rebounding it themselves?


If last night was his normal game I'd want him gone. He can do much better than that.
Why don't you say the same thing about Jack when he has "his normal game"?

.
And I hyped it because box score hunters see all those O-boards and think "boy, Jeff was on it". No, he wasn't.

I have not heard you make the same comment when JO has a big O rebounding game, or are the fake rebounds also?

Naptown_Seth
12-03-2006, 07:20 PM
Jeff's rebounds

8:29 Tins short jump miss, ball is actually coming to back to Tins but Jeff grabs it. Here's why that matters. Jeff shoot over Camby, Camby gets a box block but honestly he doesn't appear to get to the ball. Jeff's shot bounces off glass and rim, DEN ball. Tinsley had the better spacing for a putback with Camby away from him (IMO)

#2
7:41 Al misses a 3, falls right to Jeff on the inside, he has a 0 foot putback and blows the layup, goes to Najera. Now on this play it looks like Camby may have blocked it, more than the other. Call that a wash. I hope he did because otherwise Jeff just shot the layup like the kid in Monster House (2 hand shove into the rim from 0 feet away)

(layup miss at 7:22, Tins feeds Jeff cutting to the rim, does the same thing he just did, pushes it right into the bottom of the rim...JO rebounds and the Pacers eventually score)

#3
6:20 Tins hits Jeff with a killer baseline pass setting him up open at the rim. He puts that shot right into the iron but tips his miss back up and in. Should have just been a straight make with no rebound. Camby ALMOST tipped it away meaning Jeff almost blew a point blank attempt completely. He gets an OREB for doing that.

#4
0:28 Baston misses a point blank layup, Jeff swats it back up and it goes in. This is a GOOD OREB for Jeff, but Baston also should have just made this shot. ANyway, good tip by Jeff.

2ND QTR

#5
3:35 Al misses a contested layup at the rim. Naj and Camby have defended the shot given Jeff a decent look. Instead of pulling the ball in he tips it back and it misses, DEN ball. Worthless "rebound", especially considering he had the chance to collect it properly.

#6
2:55 JO misses a FT, Jeff and Naj battle, Jeff swats weakly at the ball and it hits the bottom of the rim. This IMO isn't even a rebound OR a shot attempt. The ball never goes above the iron.

#7
2:28 Al misses lane jumper, Jeff rebounds and kicks out to JO. GOOD rebound by Jeff....and then he throws a pass that almost goes into the backcourt even though Tinsley isn't being challenged. Almost an unforced TO (ie, typical of the "intensity" Jeff and the Pacers showed).


3RD QTR

#8
7:58 JO misses FT and it bounces far wide left. GOOD rebound by Jeff. Not the toughest he will see, but a good play.

#9, #10, #11
6:10 Camby blocks Jacks short shot. Jeff, Jack and Camby swat at the ball and it goes up into the backboard (this is called a Jeff "rebound". It's a contested tip drill keeping the ball alive, not a rebound or shot.

It bounces left and Naj and Camby are both about to get it when JO reaches out and swats it back toward the rim (uncredited for some reason). It goes right to Jeff and this gives Jeff a 2nd rebounding credit on the play. He's wide open in front of the rim at this point and instead of throwing it down, he does a volleyball swat hard off the backboard.

When that miss comes back off toward him he swats at it again (misses) but Najera fouls him trying to deny the putback.

In total he really has only rebounded his own wide open miss, the other 2 rebounds were both touched by other players and really the 2nd one was a JO rebound that should have been an assist if Jeff put the open look in IMO. JO was the player that kept Camby from getting the defensive rebound and set Jeff up for the open look.

He hits his FTs which is a positive, but the general effort was not "3 hustle OREB" intensity by any stretch. It was more of the sloppy swat at the ball, miss open layup/dunk chances stuff that went on most of the night.


4TH QTR

11:12 Note that Jeff has his only non 0 foot shot, a 7 foot attempt, blocked by Evans. Jeff caught a pass at the FT line, put a single dribble on the court, bounced into Evans and then threw up a turning awkward "jumper" thing.

This resulted in a DEN break that was saved only by Armstrong tipping the long pass away at the last second at the other end.

#12
10:48 Jeff makes a GOOD rebound, 2 hands and contested and is then fouled (not in penalty). The only problem with this one is that it's the DEN scrubs (no Camby, no Naj) and the game is 18 points now.


So he had something like 4 quality rebounds, a couple that were suspect in being attributed as rebounds by him at all, and one of his good ones was in scrub time.

Most of his missed shots, tip drills and other rough play came in the first 3 quarters when the game was getting progressively worse.


Sorry, but this was not a quality night by Jeff. He was as out of it as the rest of the team.

ALF68
12-03-2006, 08:07 PM
Jeff's rebounds

8:29 Tins short jump miss, ball is actually coming to back to Tins but Jeff grabs it. Here's why that matters. Jeff shoot over Camby, Camby gets a box block but honestly he doesn't appear to get to the ball. Jeff's shot bounces off glass and rim, DEN ball. Tinsley had the better spacing for a putback with Camby away from him (IMO)

#2
7:41 Al misses a 3, falls right to Jeff on the inside, he has a 0 foot putback and blows the layup, goes to Najera. Now on this play it looks like Camby may have blocked it, more than the other. Call that a wash. I hope he did because otherwise Jeff just shot the layup like the kid in Monster House (2 hand shove into the rim from 0 feet away)

(layup miss at 7:22, Tins feeds Jeff cutting to the rim, does the same thing he just did, pushes it right into the bottom of the rim...JO rebounds and the Pacers eventually score)

#3
6:20 Tins hits Jeff with a killer baseline pass setting him up open at the rim. He puts that shot right into the iron but tips his miss back up and in. Should have just been a straight make with no rebound. Camby ALMOST tipped it away meaning Jeff almost blew a point blank attempt completely. He gets an OREB for doing that.

#4
0:28 Baston misses a point blank layup, Jeff swats it back up and it goes in. This is a GOOD OREB for Jeff, but Baston also should have just made this shot. ANyway, good tip by Jeff.

2ND QTR

#5
3:35 Al misses a contested layup at the rim. Naj and Camby have defended the shot given Jeff a decent look. Instead of pulling the ball in he tips it back and it misses, DEN ball. Worthless "rebound", especially considering he had the chance to collect it properly.

#6
2:55 JO misses a FT, Jeff and Naj battle, Jeff swats weakly at the ball and it hits the bottom of the rim. This IMO isn't even a rebound OR a shot attempt. The ball never goes above the iron.

#7
2:28 Al misses lane jumper, Jeff rebounds and kicks out to JO. GOOD rebound by Jeff....and then he throws a pass that almost goes into the backcourt even though Tinsley isn't being challenged. Almost an unforced TO (ie, typical of the "intensity" Jeff and the Pacers showed).


3RD QTR

#8
7:58 JO misses FT and it bounces far wide left. GOOD rebound by Jeff. Not the toughest he will see, but a good play.

#9, #10, #11
6:10 Camby blocks Jacks short shot. Jeff, Jack and Camby swat at the ball and it goes up into the backboard (this is called a Jeff "rebound". It's a contested tip drill keeping the ball alive, not a rebound or shot.

It bounces left and Naj and Camby are both about to get it when JO reaches out and swats it back toward the rim (uncredited for some reason). It goes right to Jeff and this gives Jeff a 2nd rebounding credit on the play. He's wide open in front of the rim at this point and instead of throwing it down, he does a volleyball swat hard off the backboard.

When that miss comes back off toward him he swats at it again (misses) but Najera fouls him trying to deny the putback.

In total he really has only rebounded his own wide open miss, the other 2 rebounds were both touched by other players and really the 2nd one was a JO rebound that should have been an assist if Jeff put the open look in IMO. JO was the player that kept Camby from getting the defensive rebound and set Jeff up for the open look.

He hits his FTs which is a positive, but the general effort was not "3 hustle OREB" intensity by any stretch. It was more of the sloppy swat at the ball, miss open layup/dunk chances stuff that went on most of the night.


4TH QTR

11:12 Note that Jeff has his only non 0 foot shot, a 7 foot attempt, blocked by Evans. Jeff caught a pass at the FT line, put a single dribble on the court, bounced into Evans and then threw up a turning awkward "jumper" thing.

This resulted in a DEN break that was saved only by Armstrong tipping the long pass away at the last second at the other end.

#12
10:48 Jeff makes a GOOD rebound, 2 hands and contested and is then fouled (not in penalty). The only problem with this one is that it's the DEN scrubs (no Camby, no Naj) and the game is 18 points now.


So he had something like 4 quality rebounds, a couple that were suspect in being attributed as rebounds by him at all, and one of his good ones was in scrub time.

Most of his missed shots, tip drills and other rough play came in the first 3 quarters when the game was getting progressively worse.


Sorry, but this was not a quality night by Jeff. He was as out of it as the rest of the team.




Sorry, but this was not a quality night by Jeff. He was as out of it as the rest of the team.[/quote]

Then why go to these great lengths to bash Jeff, if the rest of the team was out of it also? I say again the TEAM LOST. Damn he gets what 18 boards and you are pounding on him, just doesn't make sense to me.

Bball
12-03-2006, 08:43 PM
OK.. I've missed the past couple of games...

Is Josh Powell no longer an option? Shouldn't we getting him some spot duty minutes?

-Bball

CableKC
12-03-2006, 11:15 PM
I'm gonna chalk this one up to the standard "4 games in 5 nights" excuse. I may not like that all of them played sluggishly and may have looked disinterested.....but I will begrudgingly give them a "bye" on this game.....cuz honestly...I'm not really surprised.

Now if they played like this at home after a night's rest.....then I would be upset.

If we were a top tier team and played like this....even on the road....then I would be disappointed. But we are not......we are a .500 team that played like any other "mediocre" team would play at the tail-end of a long East to West Coast road trip.

NuffSaid
12-03-2006, 11:51 PM
I didn't catch all of the game - mainly just the 2nd-half - but from what I saw defense just wasn't there like UB said. I'm sure the schedule had something to do with it, but overall players just weren't defending well.

The PnR is hard to defend and the Pacers got burned with it all night long. However, the most effective way I've found to defend against it is for the on-the-ball defender to rotate to the man who sets the pick instead of staying in man-defense. If you try sticking with man-D, you're more likely to get trapped when the pick is set and the ball handler will only create the space he needs by either using the pick setter as a shield OR by getting his defender caught in traffic. Sure, a mismatch is liable to be created by rotating off your man, but odds are the ball handler won't get a good shot off because he either won't have the space he needs or he's liable to have a hand or two in his face.

The Pacers have been poor at defending the PnR for years! To this day, I will never understand why the coaches teach them to stick with man-D in such a situation. Nevertheless, you can either chalk up last night's loss as fatigue from the schedule or you can say it was just poor all around defense...or a combination of both. My vote: Poor defense.