PDA

View Full Version : Anybody watch Kobe put up 52 tonight?



BoomBaby31
12-01-2006, 03:18 AM
Kobe is absolutely amazing, I've been watching basketball forever and don't recall any performance comparing to this one. Kobe was simply unstopable. This wasn't an Iverson 50, were he shot 40+ shots during the game, Kobe only shot 26 and hit 19! That is just remarkable. I see why Jackson took him out but he should of let him play the whole game out. I think Kobe will break the all time record one day; that is if Phil leaves him in the game to do it. I know a lot of you are anti-kobe but this performance deserves a thread.

croz24
12-01-2006, 03:38 AM
started watching the game in the second quarter, about when he started that streak of 11 consecutive makes. kobe is without a doubt the best scorer in the nba and i don't think he will ever get the credit he deserves unless he wins another title. without kobe, the pacers easily win the title in 2000. it wasn't shaq that beat us that year it was kobe. yet shaq continues to get all the credit. but just in terms of sheer enjoyment to watch, kobe is number 1 on my list by far. i think lebron is the best player in the league overall with kobe second, but the guy is just simply amazing. 30pts in the 3rd quarter on 9 for 9 from the field and 10 for 10 from the ft line??? give me a break.

Pitons
12-01-2006, 10:43 AM
LeBron 1 player overall - maybe. Bryant second - doubt it.

Fireball Kid
12-01-2006, 11:43 AM
He almost broke George Gervin's record for most points in a quarter. AK-47 is a very good defender and Kobe made him look like somebody that came out of the D-League.

spreedom
12-01-2006, 12:22 PM
Bryant second - doubt it.


Same here. I very much doubt that he should be any lower than first on anyone's list.

Jon Theodore
12-01-2006, 12:33 PM
Kobe is better than Lebron, Lebron is good but overrated. people talk about how bad his team is, but I disagree. I think Lebron is about as good as the refs decide to let him be on whatever night he plays.

Kobe > Lebron
Dwade > Lebron
Carmelo > Lebron

Slick Pinkham
12-01-2006, 12:38 PM
Kobe > Lebron


OK



Dwade > Lebron


Maybe, but a stretch



Carmelo > Lebron

:crazy:

3rdStrike
12-01-2006, 01:53 PM
I think Lebron is about as good as the refs decide to let him be on whatever night he plays.



That's crazy, considering Kobe gets foul calls that absolutely noone else gets. Every game.

LeBron has a better assist average (6.7 to Kobe's 5), better Assist to turnover ratio, more rebounds (6.8 to 4.7) , is similair in 3pt efficiency and will undoubtedly finish the season with a better overall field goal percentage.

Higher percentage shooter, better rebounder, better passer, and both are among league leaders in scoring. LBJ is better.


The original poster was, of course, talking about scoring, in which case Kobe gets the nod because he has great individual performances and is better at the line.

Calgary Jazz
12-01-2006, 02:01 PM
He almost broke George Gervin's record for most points in a quarter. AK-47 is a very good defender and Kobe made him look like somebody that came out of the D-League.

There is no need to bash AK47, he was guarding Kobe maybe on 4-5 possesions, and Kobe just shot over him, there were no ankle breaking drives or dunks on him so, please do not talk BS. Two dunks Kobe made were against other primary defenders, AK was coming for a help defense.

PaceBalls
12-01-2006, 02:01 PM
That's crazy, considering Kobe gets foul calls that absolutely noone else gets. Every game.

LeBron has a better assist average (6.7 to Kobe's 5), better Assist to turnover ratio, more rebounds (6.8 to 4.7) , is similair in 3pt efficiency and will undoubtedly finish the season with a better overall field goal percentage.

Higher percentage shooter, better rebounder, better passer, and both are among league leaders in scoring. LBJ is better.


The original poster was, of course, talking about scoring, in which case Kobe gets the nod because he has great individual performances and is better at the line.

What about defense???
Anyone remember when Ron would totally own Lebron every game? Ron was a much better over all player than Lebron back then. Maybe Lebron is catching up and certainly his offensive game is great, but let's not forget about the other half of basketball, defense.

Kobe has a much better overall game, defense and offense. No contest IMO

Pitons
12-01-2006, 02:19 PM
Same here. I very much doubt that he should be any lower than first on anyone's list.

No, I meant Bryant is lower on my list. :)

Slick Pinkham
12-01-2006, 02:27 PM
I agree with Ric Bucher in ESPN's Daily Dime:

"I understand. He doesn't do funny commercials. He seemed to be channeling all of MJ's mannerisms his first few years while denying any similarity. He has a nasty edge that he sometimes inflicts on people who meant him no harm. He doesn't have Shaq's seal of approval. The list of reasons those who don't like him is long and varied. But how many times does one man have to drop iodine tablets into the same village well to make it potable? How many times must Kobe demonstrate that no one in the league -- and I mean no one -- has his combination of skill, tenacity, understanding of time and score, killer instinct and ability to control the game at the both ends?"



__________________

Evan_The_Dude
12-01-2006, 02:34 PM
^^ Sooo true. He's the best in the league, PERIOD

pizza guy
12-01-2006, 02:46 PM
As much as it pains me, I have to admit that Kobe is the best player in this league. LeBron and DWade are close, but they are a step behind. Bucher nailed it--it's in his tenacity that is unmatched. He can score on anyone, anytime, in any amount. He's consistently on all-defense teams.

LeBron is great to watch, astounding, actually. So is DWade. But Kobe has to be on top of the list. Like him or not, Kobe is #1.

Pitons
12-01-2006, 03:07 PM
I agree with Ric Bucher in ESPN's Daily Dime:

"I understand. He doesn't do funny commercials. He seemed to be channeling all of MJ's mannerisms his first few years while denying any similarity. He has a nasty edge that he sometimes inflicts on people who meant him no harm. He doesn't have Shaq's seal of approval. The list of reasons those who don't like him is long and varied. But how many times does one man have to drop iodine tablets into the same village well to make it potable? How many times must Kobe demonstrate that no one in the league -- and I mean no one -- has his combination of skill, tenacity, understanding of time and score, killer instinct and ability to control the game at the both ends?"



__________________

45% FG? (this season 49% so far), 33% three throws? More than 4 turnovers per game and his team losing and losing with him (I mean seasons with Shaq and without)? 32th in eff per 48 min this season? He ranks 9th in points per game, 9th in free throws and free throws attempts per 48 min. 8th in points That's all.

Answer - :confused:.

We can look at Nowitzki's stats - top 10 in 11 stats.



Yes, he's a good defender, he's very good one on one. One of the best overall - yes, best - no.

And yes, I like him very much nevertheless. Maybe he will prove this year he can be No 1. Good luck to him.

Anthem
12-01-2006, 03:34 PM
45% FG? (this season 49% so far),
A guard that hits 49% of his shots is extremely rare.

Pitons
12-01-2006, 03:42 PM
A guard that hits 49% of his shots is extremely rare.

So far it's good (5th amongst guards who score more than 15 points), but only 13 games.

And as I said - good luck to Bryant. If he can do this all the year plus good place in eff per 48 min and his team will perform well, to hell his turnovers, my vote would go for Kobe.

Fireball Kid
12-01-2006, 06:01 PM
There is no need to bash AK47, he was guarding Kobe maybe on 4-5 possesions, and Kobe just shot over him, there were no ankle breaking drives or dunks on him so, please do not talk BS. Two dunks Kobe made were against other primary defenders, AK was coming for a help defense.

Where in my post was I bashing Andrei? I was simply making a point that even the best defenders cannot guard players like Kobe Bryant so stop being so damn sensitive.

Calgary Jazz
12-01-2006, 06:32 PM
Where in my post was I bashing Andrei? .

You said that he looked like from D league.... Thats not true. He played good defense, stayed in front of Bryant, had hand in his face all the time, and all Bryant did - hit 4 long jumpers over him. What better defense you can play? Hit him hard on top of the head ala Artest? Smash him to the ground ala Raja? Kobe was in a zone yesterday, there was no chance of stopping him.

Eindar
12-01-2006, 07:21 PM
He's top 5 for sure, but the league is in bad shape if the #1 guy in the league doesn't make his teammates better.

Naptown_Seth
12-01-2006, 07:40 PM
A guard that hits 49% of his shots is extremely rare.
While this is true, I think Pitons makes a strong case. Last night was perhaps Kobe's best game (due to the efficiency of scoring in comparison to the 82, as well as the competition it was against).

Let's see this same thread when Kobe has the counter to last night, when he has a pretty poor game. Be honest now, Kobe is not AVERAGING 52 per, so that means that this output will be paired with some unimpressive 19 point night, or even a couple of them.

Kobe is very good, but struggles to make others around him better. Or at least he did in the past. To me Kobe is a very athletic guy that can get just about any shot he wants. On nights when those shots are falling he becomes a lethal scoring weapon.

But on nights when they aren't he can become an outright distraction to his team. The Lakers JUST LOST AT HOME to Millwaukee in which he shot 30% from the field while taking 23 shots. In that game his counterpart was Redd and he went 16-30 for 45 points, 8 boards and 5 assists...yeah, Kobe shut him down. :rolleyes:

If THAT makes a guy best in the NBA then why all the griping around here about Stephan Jackson? If Jack put up 23 shots and only hit 7 while the Pacers lost at home, I'm betting "best in the NBA" would not be the words coming out of people's mouths at Conseco.

Now don't get me wrong, Kobe gets discussed as the best not because of those bad games but because of the nights when he is unstoppable, and there are many of those too.

It's just that there are plenty of other shutdown defenders who actually get steals and blocks even while they are making a guy go scoreless. Note that while he "cooled off" AK after he got going against Walton, Kobe still only had 1 block and no steals on the night. Now I know that guys aren't always properly credited for what they create, but the fact is that either Kobe is really unlucky and overlooked (uh...right) or he isn't really quite the super-stopped that other defenders are (1.23 steals, only 3 blocks all year).

When a guy like Ron cools a guy off, it somehow magically also comes complete with 2.8 steals and 1.1 blocks per at the same time.

Redd goes out and is a strong defender, grabs 1.6 steals a night, and scores more PPG while dropping a very lethal 43% from 3 on 5 attempts per night (ie, dude isn't a specialist waiting for that one open moment). He's shooting 53% adjusted and 1.44 PPS, Kobe is also at 53% adjusted (a fraction lower technically) and 1.51 PPS.

And I'm not putting Redd as the #1 guy in the NBA either. I'm just saying that this "is there any doubt?" question deserves a strong "F yeah there's some doubt". DIRK has better steals, rebounds, blocks, FG%, 3P%, Adjusted FG% and PPS numbers than Kobe, and prior to the eye injury Dirk had exactly ONE NIGHT where he went for less than 20, ZERO nights shooting below 35% (Kobe 2), ONE NIGHT where he shot less than 38% from the field (Kobe 3), and only FOUR nights where he was less than 50% from the field (Kobe 6). And it's not for lack of attempts OR lack of outside shots...he's shooting the 3 MUCH better than Kobe and takes 2.3 of those per night himself.



Defend Kobe at the greatest in the NBA on his next 8-27 night in an LA loss, that's a lot tougher sell.

He's IN THE DISCUSSION, that's all. When Dirk has the monster night the discussion will go his way. Just before last night people were saying Kobe would "never be the same" thanks to the knee, he was forever going to be limited and less than his old self. He has one brilliant night after 2 semi-dogs (at least shooting) and it's all fixed and he's the greatest, no question.

How about some stability rather than following the game to game swings that make "player X" the greatest, no question.


(note - I think Kobe is pretty amazing, very talented, and when he's on he's as good as it gets. I also think he has proven beyond a doubt that he can be a selfish teammate and has struggled to carry his team on his own just as much as anyone else, if not more at times)

rexnom
12-01-2006, 08:34 PM
You said that he looked like from D league.... Thats not true. He played good defense, stayed in front of Bryant, had hand in his face all the time, and all Bryant did - hit 4 long jumpers over him. What better defense you can play? Hit him hard on top of the head ala Artest? Smash him to the ground ala Raja? Kobe was in a zone yesterday, there was no chance of stopping him.
You're taking it too personally, man. It's ok to admit that one of the best players in the league made a complete fool of your team and best defensive player. That's what he does.

As for Raja Bell, I think that's the only guy that can play him...he gets in Kobe's head...

Btw, Redd is not an average defender at best. This is the first season he's really getting significant steals. Bryant is pretty much unparalleled at SG. He's pretty amazing. My favorite thing was that that same day ESPN ran an article that read how Phil doesn't think Kobe will ever be back to 100%....

One last point, I don't think there's a single person who, after watching games by Redd, Kobe, LeBron, Wade, T-Mac, Dirk, whoever else you want to throw in there, will not think that Kobe is the best player in the NBA without some bias. I can't even explain it better than that. Stats don't tell the entire story. As Disreali said, there's "lies, damn lies, and statistics."

spreedom
12-02-2006, 02:56 AM
I think Lebron is about as good as the refs decide to let him be on whatever night he plays.

Kobe > Lebron
Dwade < Lebron
Carmelo < Lebron



I fixed it for you. D-Wade cannot play great games on his own.. he needs assistance from the officials. I also think Melo is better than Wade, and even getting PRETTY close to being as effective a player as LeBron (albeit a completely different one).

Arcadian
12-02-2006, 03:24 AM
Kobe is the best individual player in the league.

Just
12-02-2006, 03:35 AM
Kobe is better than Lebron, Lebron is good but overrated. people talk about how bad his team is, but I disagree. I think Lebron is about as good as the refs decide to let him be on whatever night he plays.

Kobe > Lebron
Dwade > Lebron
Carmelo > Lebron

Tim Duncan > All four of them

spreedom
12-02-2006, 03:16 PM
Tim Duncan > All four of them

Disagree.. he's becoming almost as big of a flopping whiner as Wade and Ginobili these days.. and I don't even think he's the best 4 in the game anymore. I'll take Dirk, KG, and D12 over Duncan right now. I think if you put any of those four guys on the Spurs, they'd be a better team.

I've personally never bought the hype that Duncan is better than Garnett...

Fireball Kid
12-02-2006, 04:48 PM
You know, people are talking about LeBron, Wade or Carmelo winning the MVP. IMO, the MVP will go to either Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki or Carlos Boozer. Kevin Garnett always has great seasons but he can never get his team to the promise land. It looks like his team is headed to obscurity once again this year.

bulldog
12-02-2006, 04:58 PM
Dirk deserves more discussion in this thread. But yeah, Kobe's number 1, no doubt about it.


I'll take Dirk, KG, and D12 over Duncan right now.
Maybe. I disagree, but that's an opinion thing, whatever.

I think if you put any of those four guys on the Spurs, they'd be a better team.
No. They built that entire team around his low post play. While those others guys might be better in certain aspects, he is still one of the best (and last) low-post scorers in the game.

Naptown_Seth
12-02-2006, 08:45 PM
As Disreali said, there's "lies, damn lies, and statistics."
Statistics = the addition of a string of factual events.

Things happen, you count them. People like to pretend like somehow that process is more complex or mystical. It's not. Of course what you count can be tricky, and the circumstances as you count can be as well.

But my point would be that while I didn't see the MIL-LA game in which Redd went off on Kobe and the Lakers lost (in LA), I'm betting that while watching THAT game plenty of people would have felt that Redd was the better player on that night.

The "on that night" is the bias because it suggests that somehow that direct matchup was not real. The truth is it was just as real as when Kobe then went for 52.

Kobe is still a younger AI to me. AI was often the most physically talented guy on the court, but he wasn't always the best PLAYER.

I'm not saying Kobe doesn't amaze me too at times, I'm just saying he's not the only one and he has plenty of bad moments too. I don't feel like he's proven that its just him above everybody else. If that were the case then I think the Lakers would have gotten to the Finals last year.

Kobe had the 50 in the home loss with Bell out, but on the other side the Suns had Nash and Barbosa going for 54 combined which outdid Kobe and Parker's 52 total. At some point wasn't Kobe guarding one of these 2 guys? Of course he was. And add to it 7 turnovers by Kobe too. He scored at will but was also scored on at will, and in the end his team lost at home in a clinching game. He's "unstoppable" and yet Marion partially blocked his shot to win the game in regulation...that sounds "stoppable" to me.

BTW, I watched that series and the big advantage LA had was actually at the Odom/Marion matchup, which surprised me. Odom just dominated Marion and gave him a lot of problems (till game 7). This was really true in game 6, so you can't say Kobe had no help at all. Odom was 1 assist shy of the triple-double. Kwame even went 8 of 9 for 17.

spreedom
12-03-2006, 01:03 AM
For the record, I'd probably say my personal player ranking in the NBA has Kobe as #1 and Dirk as #1a.. Dirk is incredible and I think he's going to get his ring this season... unless the Mavs run into LeBron in the Finals.. because we all know Der Stern isn't going to let his poster boy lose in the Finals...