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View Full Version : What happened to Granger?



Kingsfanbmiller
11-28-2006, 03:09 AM
I remember you all were real high on him(practically higher than my uncle is on weed) and he was ballin as a rookie. I thought he was due for a major break out year like 15/5/4 and I checked his stats and he's only averaging like 11/3/1. What's wrong with the dude? I thought he was going to be a poor man's Pippen or something.

Peck
11-28-2006, 03:32 AM
Here let me help you out a little bit.

Game 1 7 pts. 5 boards 2 blocks He shot 2-10

Game 2 10 pts. 3 boards 1 block He shot 3-7

Game 3 6 pts. 6 boards 1 block He shot 3-6

Game 4 14 pts. 6 boards 1 block He shot 5-9

Game 5 10 pts. 8 boards 1 block He shot 4-11

Game 6 18 pts. 7 boards 0 block He shot 7-8

Game 7 18 pts. 1 board 0 block He shot 5-9

Game 8 7 pts. 4 boards 2 blocks He shot 2-5

Game 9 12 pts. 4 boards 4 blocks He shot 5-13

Game 10 10 pts. 2 boards 0 block He shot 3-7

Game 11 10 pts. 4 boards 2 blocks He shot 4-14

Game 12 10 pts. 3 boards 0 block He shot 3-5

Game 13 4 pts 6 boards 0 blocks He shot 0-6

Game 14 18 pts 3 boards 0 blocks He shot 5-11 from the field


Ok, in a nutshell here is his season so far. The problems he has that I can tell are two fold & I'm not sure either of them are his problem but how he is being used.

1. He is being assigned the other teams best perimater player to guard. This takes a lot of energy.

2. He camps out at the three point line to much.

Both issues cause him to be away from the basket so that he cannot get in on the rebounding. However he needs to try to do that better.

On offense, well frankly we are misusing him. However when our star player decides that our offense needs to go to more of a post up offense, well then the other players have to make sure they are in position for one of our famous kick outs. Thus you will see since about game 8 & up he has taken more & more three pointers.

Danny is great on the run, Danny is great at cutting to the rim, Danny is great at mid-range. Danny is NOT great at three's & frankly I don't care if he ever is.

We need to use the guy better.

So my only dissapointment this season with Danny is that I would like to see him rebound more consistantly but other than that I can't fault him for his poor stats.

Kingsfanbmiller
11-28-2006, 03:56 AM
So he's not allowed to take the right shots or have the ball enough? Thanks dude. :)

Peck
11-28-2006, 03:59 AM
Well to be honest with you I would really just like to tell you that our coach (btw in case you didn't know our coach is Jermaine O'Neal) won't let him get the ball enough or in the right spot.

However last season he showed a certain affinety to the three point line, but then again Coach O'Neal was in the low post then as well.

Maybe in the future he can break out for a length of time & have some offense.

Fireball Kid
11-28-2006, 04:31 AM
I think people are expecting way too much out of Danny Granger. Just give the kid some time.

Kingsfanbmiller
11-28-2006, 05:04 AM
Well to be honest with you I would really just like to tell you that our coach (btw in case you didn't know our coach is Jermaine O'Neal) won't let him get the ball enough or in the right spot.

However last season he showed a certain affinety to the three point line, but then again Coach O'Neal was in the low post then as well.

Maybe in the future he can break out for a length of time & have some offense.


So it's Jermaine's fault? I thought pacer fans loved Jermaine and he loved them... Or is it Carlisle's fault? You think JO will get traded? For real I like the Pacers way back since they had Reggie Miller(I call him Reggie Killer actually...) but I haven't kept up with their team much lately.

able
11-28-2006, 05:49 AM
So it's Jermaine's fault? I thought pacer fans loved Jermaine and he loved them... Or is it Carlisle's fault? You think JO will get traded? For real I like the Pacers way back since they had Reggie Miller(I call him Reggie Killer actually...) but I haven't kept up with their team much lately.


Nay worry, JO is not going anywhere, it's just Peck who has a wee problem that needs to come out into the open, so people can discuss it with him, but he is still in the "kick it" stage.

Danny is not "supposed" or "asked" to be a primary scorer, he's asked to be a defender first, and on the scoring chart he comes 3 or 4, unless he's playing with the bench, which is when he takes most of his shots.
He is at the moment also shooting his 3's at a higher percentage then his midrange.

Pitons
11-28-2006, 09:21 AM
btw in case you didn't know our coach is Jermaine O'Neal


:laugh:

:lmao:

Ragnar
11-28-2006, 10:07 AM
Granger is only in his 2nd season. There is a reason for the term sophomore slump.

Unclebuck
11-28-2006, 10:18 AM
Perhaps he'll be used differently coming off the bench. he'll play more power forward, he'll be on the court more with Marquis, DA, Saras - so I think Granger's offensive game will flourish. The ball movement and player movement is much better with the second unit - so Granger will play better

Phildog
11-28-2006, 10:46 AM
It seems like people are afraid to say it but......Granger just doesn't have it yet. He makes really bad decisions, can't seem to drive to the basket without turning it over, and can't get the ball into the post. He needs more time to develop into a starter.

Unclebuck
11-28-2006, 11:54 AM
I think many had expectations that were too high. Did anyone really think he'd be a primary scorer - I hope they didn't.

Another important point, who would really want to play with Jax, Tinsley, Al and JO. As many of us discussed everyone of those 4 need and want the ball every time, they want to "do their thing" every time. So of course Granger was going to struggle a little offensively

Phildog
11-28-2006, 11:57 AM
I think many had expectations that were too high. Did anyone really think he'd be a primary scorer - I hope they didn't.

Another important point, who would really want to play with Jax, Tinsley, Al and JO. As many of us discussed everyone of those 4 need and want the ball every time, they want to "do their thing" every time. So of course Granger was going to struggle a little offensively


I think many people did think he would be a primary scorer. And that is not Granger's game at all. He's a ways a way from being a finished product, and truthfully, I don't know that he should be focusing on this offense, when defense is what he should/will be known for.

Unclebuck
11-28-2006, 12:18 PM
I think many people did think he would be a primary scorer. And that is not Granger's game at all. He's a ways a way from being a finished product, and truthfully, I don't know that he should be focusing on this offense, when defense is what he should/will be known for.

I've always argued against the Pippen comparisons, but in a lot of ways Granger is similar to Pippen. Clearly Granger will never be the playmaker like Pippen was (Pip was almost a point guard) but in a lot of the other areas they are similar and Pippen is the type of player Granger should look to.

I really don't think Granger will ever be a guy who you just give the ball to and tell him to either create a shot for himself or a teammate. (the sad thing is the Pacers have 4 players on their team Al, JO, JT, Jax who think they are those type players, and I'm not so sure any of them are)

Phildog
11-28-2006, 12:26 PM
I really don't think Granger will ever be a guy who you just give the ball to and tell him to either create a shot for himself or a teammate. (the sad thing is the Pacers have 4 players on their team Al, JO, JT, Jax who think they are those type players, and I'm not so sure any of them are)

Which is why we struggle so much to get offense at times and have long scoring droughts. We just don't have that person that goes straight to the basket and makes something happen. Where's Quissy and his skills?? He has got to bring his game to a level like that since its obvious he has the skill to do just that.

miller31
11-28-2006, 12:34 PM
Everyone just needs to relax about Danny Granger! He is going to be the star of the team. He hasnt been as consistent as everyone thought or good as he should be. It is also only 10 games into the season so lets just give him and the Pacers some time. Danny will do just fine and hit his shots like he always does. And yes, he does need the ball more on offense and produce more shots.

DANNY GRANGER IS THE MAN!

Dr. Goldfoot
11-28-2006, 12:48 PM
I think people are expecting way too much out of Danny Granger.

He was the fifth option in the original starting five. As far as him averaging 15/5/4 or whatever people thought, I think he's far from that. Consider the fact that he's accomplished 4 assists twice in his career, against the Suns last year and the Knicks this year. Expecting him to double his offensive output against starters the majority of the time is expecting too much, especially considering the players surrounding him. I'm not convinced he's where people claim defensively either. I think he gets beat forcing others to collapse and foul. To his credit, he has been guarding some of the better offensive players this year and that's tough for anyone. Lebron averages 23 a game against Artest in their 7 meetings, so it's not like people are able to stop the guy. I've just noticed Danny getting some looks here and there from team mates that don't say "it's cool that guy's a bear to guard" but say "how many times is he gonna beat you with that move?" or "nice help defense, guy". He's got some skills but he's not where alot of fans want him to be yet.

Unclebuck
11-28-2006, 12:53 PM
Which is why we struggle so much to get offense at times and have long scoring droughts. We just don't have that person that goes straight to the basket and makes something happen. Where's Quissy and his skills?? He has got to bring his game to a level like that since its obvious he has the skill to do just that.


I agree 100%.

As far as Marquis goes - when he's playing with Tinsley and the rest of the starters, Daniels becomes a spot up shooter - and he is horrible in that role.

I'd love to see what a backcourt of Greene and Marquis could do (yes I realize bench players always seem better when they aren't playing). Too bad both of those players were hurt all training camp and preseason because it didn't give the coaching staff an opportunity to see what that type of backcourt would look like. But with DA's age and Tinsley's injuries, we might see Greene and Daniels together. The defense would be great, but the offense would need to be re-worked a little. -- But that is the radical type of re-working I wish would take place.

Don't get me wrong, I know that a backcourt rotation of Tinsley, Jax, DA and Saras gives us the best chance of winning right now, but I think I'd rather see a three guard rotation of of Marshal, Daniels and Greene. Might not work though because we don't have any consistant shooters. But then again do we have any consistancy in the other 4 shooters

3rdStrike
11-28-2006, 03:45 PM
Let me get this right. The offense is struggling so they are replacing Granger with Foster? Sometimes this team really confuses me, here's hoping it works out, because if the team is going to finish with a mediocre record I'd rather do it while giving minutes to Marshall, Granger, Daniels and Powell to see what we have in them.

Mourning
11-28-2006, 06:51 PM
Just noticed Peck's new avatar!!! :rotflmao:

Guess there's really no question IF he's fallen to the darkside allready :evillaugh.

;)

Another element on Danny. It's just the start of his second season, so I feel it's a little unfair to immediately expect like 15/5/3 from out of the gates. That doesn't mean I do not agree with most of Peck's assessment earlier in this thread. Even taking that into consideration I expect him to get better during the season and improving on his current averages.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

v_d_g
11-28-2006, 07:53 PM
I really don't think Granger will ever be a guy who you just give the ball to and tell him to either create a shot for himself or a teammate. (the sad thing is the Pacers have 4 players on their team Al, JO, JT, Jax who think they are those type players, and I'm not so sure any of them are)

Ahhh, YES, finally, we get to the crux of the issue:

The problem with Granger is exactly the problem with the Pacers:

he can't create his own shot and he's not a reliable shooter

Of all the Pacers, only JT is able to create his own shot and he can't consistently hit the side of a barn from 5 feet. (How someone who shoots as poorly as JT is in the league and why he won't just get his lazy *** over the gym and take jump shots, is beyond me.)

Let's summarize:

1) no one on the team can get his own shot (and thus pose a threat of involving others)

2) haven't looked at overall stats but can't believe that there's a poorer shooting team in the league

3) poor shooting teams that lack a player able to go off for 40 every so often usually can't make up large 1st quarter deficits (yeah, another Pacer problem)

4) Granger is/will develop into a nice player but he'll never be a star

5) add the glaring LACK of Athleticism issue and no wonder the Pacer games aren't exactly entertaining to watch

Los Angeles
11-28-2006, 08:56 PM
I've said since the beginning of preseason that Granger should be the 6th man with 30 minutes, just like Al in 03-04. This way, he will be the primary scorer and stopper of the second unit, which in his second season is the perfect situation for development.

Obviously the only one interested in hearing it is the wall in my living room. :shrug:

ALF68
11-28-2006, 09:23 PM
Well to be honest with you I would really just like to tell you that our coach (btw in case you didn't know our coach is Jermaine O'Neal) won't let him get the ball enough or in the right spot.

However last season he showed a certain affinety to the three point line, but then again Coach O'Neal was in the low post then as well.

Maybe in the future he can break out for a length of time & have some offense.


Coach O'neal, now that does have a ring to it.

Pacerized
11-28-2006, 10:09 PM
I honestly can't remember us ever having a rookie that didn't get anointed right away with all star expectations. 2 years ago Harrison was going to be the best center we've ever had. Everyone wants the rookie to start, and anything less is hampering their development. I think we just need to be patient, and starting isn't usually the best thing for the player, or the team.
Danny will be fine coming off the bench, and should get more opportunities there since he'll move up as a scoring option if he's not always on the court with J.O., or Al.
As for Harrison, I never was that high on him, but I haven't given up yet either. I'm willing to give Harrison this season, and next if that's what it takes. By then he'll either give the consistent effort, and show some control, or he won't be resigned.

Trader Joe
11-29-2006, 01:24 AM
Danny Granger just happened to the Portland Trailblazers.

Anthem
11-29-2006, 01:47 AM
I've said since the beginning of preseason that Granger should be the 6th man with 30 minutes, just like Al in 03-04. This way, he will be the primary scorer and stopper of the second unit, which in his second season is the perfect situation for development.

Obviously the only one interested in hearing it is the wall in my living room. :shrug:
We're not worthy.

Let's hear it for coach O'Neal! Great job tonight.

Diesel_81
11-29-2006, 05:04 AM
I think people expected way to much out of Danny this season and lets not forget the season is very young. Offensively Danny is where I thought he would be around 10-13pts a game at this point in time he's not very polished in that area.As Peck pointed out he's better without the ball cutting to the basket, offensive rebound putbacks ect.

I must admit though I am a little shocked about his rebounding.I expected 8-10 bds a game from the small forward position which was probably asking for a little too much but hes that good.All in all its tough to be down on a guy who plays hard and plays with energy everytime hes in the game. Hes just a player I love rooting for.

Naptown_Seth
11-29-2006, 05:55 AM
I think people are expecting way too much out of Danny Granger. Just give the kid some time.
I agree. Danny is still green, he's still finding his NBA identity, his comfort zones, and still waiting for the game to truly slow down as it becomes instinctive and he stops having to think about situations before knowing what to do.

In the meantime he has been pretty timid/awkward with the dribble drive and instead prefers to camp out on the weakside 3 ball line. Unlike Sarunas or Tinsley who have come and go 3pt shots and will often DRIVE on a guy closing out, Granger typically goes ahead and shoots with a guy closing him out.

He still gets the shot off clean of course, but the point is that there are options that punish a defense for a slow rotation or bad spacing beyond just shooting the currently open shot you have. Danny hasn't learned this yet, at least not well enough for it to be gut instinct.

As a rebounder he's a little bit out of the mix when he's on the court with several other bigs, but partially this is due to getting a main defensive assignment and being on the ball more than waiting for a rebound. However there is no denying that he rebounds poorly overall right now. Like his scoring it stems from not reading the floor and flow as well as he will come to do with experience.


The assists will come after both of those things. He has to get confidence in the rest of his game before you start seeing him dribble drive and dish or post and pass for 3-4 assists per night.


He's not 15-5-4 yet, but it's within his talent to get there easily. Let's see what he does in March and April.

And I still think the comparisons to the slow starting Pippen are realistic. Year 2 Pippen's numbers improved, but he didn't jump to AS numbers. He truly progressed as a player over several seasons.


Pippen after a COMPLETE year 2...

14.4, 6.1 reb, 3.5 ast, 47.6% FG, 67% FT, 27% from 3 (21 of 77)
A/TO = 1.29, 1.90 steals, 0.84 blocks, 3.6 fouls (blocks + steals = 2.74)
He went from 21 mpg in year one to 33 mpg in year 2

Granger right now in year 2 (not including the PORT game which doesn't impact these much anyway)...
11.0, 4.4 reb, 1.3 ast, 42.1% FG, 72% FT, 41.4% from 3 (24 of 58)
A/TO = 0.82, 0.79 steals, 1.00 blocks, 3.6 fouls (blocks + steals = 1.79)
He went from 23 mpg in year one to 32 mpg in year 2 (so far)

Pippen MADE 25 3 pt shots in his first 2 regular seasons (152 games)
Granger made 30 3pt shots in just his first year (78 games)


Danny has played more like a spot-up outside threat, especially in year 2, which was mentioned. The stats show it and also show that in this way he currently far exceeds Pippen. If he improves his inside play, learns to be more aggressive away from the arc, then his numbers could very well tweek right into line with Pippens. But it'll take 65 more games to prove things one way or the other.

Eindar
11-29-2006, 07:00 AM
I agree. Danny is still green, he's still finding his NBA identity, his comfort zones, and still waiting for the game to truly slow down as it becomes instinctive and he stops having to think about situations before knowing what to do.

In the meantime he has been pretty timid/awkward with the dribble drive and instead prefers to camp out on the weakside 3 ball line. Unlike Sarunas or Tinsley who have come and go 3pt shots and will often DRIVE on a guy closing out, Granger typically goes ahead and shoots with a guy closing him out.

He still gets the shot off clean of course, but the point is that there are options that punish a defense for a slow rotation or bad spacing beyond just shooting the currently open shot you have. Danny hasn't learned this yet, at least not well enough for it to be gut instinct.

As a rebounder he's a little bit out of the mix when he's on the court with several other bigs, but partially this is due to getting a main defensive assignment and being on the ball more than waiting for a rebound. However there is no denying that he rebounds poorly overall right now. Like his scoring it stems from not reading the floor and flow as well as he will come to do with experience.


The assists will come after both of those things. He has to get confidence in the rest of his game before you start seeing him dribble drive and dish or post and pass for 3-4 assists per night.


He's not 15-5-4 yet, but it's within his talent to get there easily. Let's see what he does in March and April.

And I still think the comparisons to the slow starting Pippen are realistic. Year 2 Pippen's numbers improved, but he didn't jump to AS numbers. He truly progressed as a player over several seasons.


Pippen after a COMPLETE year 2...

14.4, 6.1 reb, 3.5 ast, 47.6% FG, 67% FT, 27% from 3 (21 of 77)
A/TO = 1.29, 1.90 steals, 0.84 blocks, 3.6 fouls (blocks + steals = 2.74)
He went from 21 mpg in year one to 33 mpg in year 2

Granger right now in year 2 (not including the PORT game which doesn't impact these much anyway)...
11.0, 4.4 reb, 1.3 ast, 42.1% FG, 72% FT, 41.4% from 3 (24 of 58)
A/TO = 0.82, 0.79 steals, 1.00 blocks, 3.6 fouls (blocks + steals = 1.79)
He went from 23 mpg in year one to 32 mpg in year 2 (so far)

Pippen MADE 25 3 pt shots in his first 2 regular seasons (152 games)
Granger made 30 3pt shots in just his first year (78 games)


Danny has played more like a spot-up outside threat, especially in year 2, which was mentioned. The stats show it and also show that in this way he currently far exceeds Pippen. If he improves his inside play, learns to be more aggressive away from the arc, then his numbers could very well tweek right into line with Pippens. But it'll take 65 more games to prove things one way or the other.

These are good stats, but are also a cause for concern. Danny G is probably my favorite Pacer, and he's obviously worked on his 3-point shooting. The problem is, that looks like the only thing he's worked on. He struggles to put the ball on the floor, despite being a good finisher when he gets around the rim. The problem is that he is now camping out at the 3pt line, which reduces him to a Steve Kerr/Kyle Korver role, and he's capable of much more than that. Pippen took a noticeable jump in his stats during his 2nd season, but he really took off in his 3rd and subsequent years, because he had all the tools except for the shooting. Danny has the shooting, but still has a lot to work on to be mentioned in the same sentence as Pippen.

I honestly think we're comparing him to the wrong player. Pippen was a little smaller, had much quicker hands, was a better ballhandler, and was a poorer shotblocker. Those attributes lended themselves well to a role on the perimeter. I think Danny should try to play more like Shawn Marion, taking 3s when available, but trying to do a lot more damage heading towards the basket and crashing the boards for putbacks.