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View Full Version : Offical Post Game Thread 21 - 11; Well UB Improvement ?



able
11-21-2006, 10:44 PM
What we saw tonight was JO spreading himself like he said he wanted to do, great all around effort from the team and glimmers down the line ?

BlueNGold
11-21-2006, 10:48 PM
Al Harrington? 18 boards? That was apparently his focus because he got 7 offensive rebounds and only took 11 shots. That's not my father's Al Harrington, but I like it.

Evan_The_Dude
11-21-2006, 10:54 PM
Somebody should have kept Granger from reading that "Three-Point Specialist" article.

Unclebuck
11-21-2006, 11:01 PM
I watched the game on TV, and I want to start with Granger.

For two straight games now Granger has defended Redd about as well as anyone possibly could (makes me upset Granger weasn't on the Pacers roster during the 2004 series with the Pistons because Granger would have done a good job on Rip) But Danny was right there with him the whole time and with DG's size he really bothered Redd - but what I was impressed with was that he stayed woth Redd around all the screens.

As was watching the game I had no idea Harrington had 18 rebounds I was shocked when Vhris said he had 18. I thought Al was struggling a little, but 18 rebs is 18.

Since I usually criticize Tinsley, let me pay him a compliment. His scoring tonight was timely and he did a pretty good job of running the team.


It was a strange game to say the least, so I don't know what to make of it. One thing I did like is the Pacers at times were excellent defensively, they really were aggressive, they challenged shots, they were physical - the only problem it wasn't there consistantly like it needs to be.

I need to cut this short, but I love it that so many fans left and they missed a great finish, maybe, just maybe they will think again about leaving before the game is really decided

DG4mvp
11-21-2006, 11:06 PM
I watched the game on TV, and I want to start with Granger.

For two straight games now Granger has defended Redd about as well as anyone possibly could (makes me upset Granger weasn't on the Pacers roster during the 2004 series with the Pistons because Granger would have done a good job on Rip) But Danny was right there with him the whole time and with DG's size he really bothered Redd - but what I was impressed with was that he stayed woth Redd around all the screens.

As was watching the game I had no idea Harrington had 18 rebounds I was shocked when Vhris said he had 18. I thought Al was struggling a little, but 18 rebs is 18.

Since I usually criticize Tinsley, let me pay him a compliment. His scoring tonight was timely and he did a pretty good job of running the team.


It was a strange game to say the least, so I don't know what to make of it. One thing I did like is the Pacers at times were excellent defensively, they really were aggressive, they challenged shots, they were physical - the only problem it wasn't there consistantly like it needs to be.

I need to cut this short, but I love it that so many fans left and they missed a great finish, maybe, just maybe they will think again about leaving before the game is really decided
Not a kind word for Sarunas ? :) He was decent in the 2nd quarter and he and SJAX seem to be the best friends in the world right now. And I am not even being sarcastic ! Boy I like the camaraderie in this team. I credit SJAX and DA for most of this. I still think Sjax shot selection questionable though.
Way to fight back Pacers !

slyder
11-21-2006, 11:10 PM
well i missed the first half, so don't know what went on, but i have to admit i was yelling at the TV when rick put jackson in that last few minutes. wow, did he show me, that was a great performance that saved the W for the Pacers tonight.

and though some will cite blind squirrels and their ability to come up with a nut now and then, but putting jackson in was obviously right call by rick. good job.

i like the restraint i'm seeing from the players when calls don't go their way (tinsley et al).

nice defensive effort to get back into the game, even when the shots weren't falling, nice job deflecting passes and just getting involved defensively.

i noticed some empty seats on TV and just figured it was not a sell-out. interesting that people bailed.

pizza guy
11-21-2006, 11:13 PM
I wasn't able to see the game, again, because I can't get ANY of the FSN Indiana games here, while hoopsforlife sits at home with NBA League Pass...makes me wonder if college is worth the trouble...

Anyways, just looking at the box score, it looks pretty good. JO had another nice line. In the game thread, someone said he wasn't a superstar, but if he keeps playing like he has been recently, I think he qualifies. JO has really taken a new attitude this year, playing with very good intensity, especially on D; and still remains a very serious scoring threat inside and out to 18 ft. Good to see that our guards played well, at least offensively. Danny's 3pt shooting worries me, but he really is about as good as we've got, so I think we should let him shoot. Let's not forget Big Al going for 18 rebounds! Someone got a fire lit under their rear, and it worked very well!

That's two in a row, and we've had good energy in both. If only we could play the Bucks every game! Good win, let's keep it going!

Unclebuck
11-21-2006, 11:13 PM
Not a kind word for Sarunas ? :) He was decent in the 2nd quarter and he and SJAX seem to be the best friends in the world right now. And I am not even being sarcastic ! Boy I like the camaraderie in this team. I credit SJAX and DA for most of this. I still think Sjax shot selection questionable though.
Way to fight back Pacers !

Saras was a scoring machine in the second quarter

ALF68
11-21-2006, 11:13 PM
Man these games are wearing me out. Good effort by several players, JO becoming a force, Al hitting the glass, Tins timely basket, Sarunas good first half, and a some good defense by Jackson, all in all a good team effort. I think they are finding their way little by little.

D-BONE
11-21-2006, 11:14 PM
I honestly didn't have any problem with Jack's shot selection. Most of his misses from deep were wide open, sometimes toward the lower end of the clock. It's just frustrating he can't even make a couple.

When you look at Jack, Danny, and Quis on the perimeter and the way JO is prowling the interior erasing shots, our D could be really solid. Obviously, we'll always be somewhat susceptible with JT and Saras at point. They both looked good tonight. JT even turned up his D down the stretch. We just have to find a way to play D more consistently throughout. Having Al, Jeff, both of them, or some other combination of guys complement JO with rebounding like we've seen in the Bucks games are also integral to building that D.

indygeezer
11-21-2006, 11:18 PM
This pains me to ask, but I had the general impression that our defense was better without Foster in there, right or wrong? Giving credit to those who deserve it, the P's hung tough and showed grit. They deserved the W.

Unclebuck
11-21-2006, 11:23 PM
This pains me to ask, but I had the general impression that our defense was better without Foster in there, right or wrong? Giving credit to those who deserve it, the P's hung tough and showed grit. They deserved the W.

It was inconclusive tonight. Rick put Jeff in on the most important defensive play of ther game - I do know that


Note: Pacers plane is delayed two hours tonight

TheDon
11-21-2006, 11:50 PM
The only complaint I have for tinsley and I don't know there could be a good reason for it. there was sometimes there was NOBODY within miles of him just staring him down and he would look at the basket and then pull it back down. He's either not very confident in his ability to hit wide open shots OR he's pulling up like that to try to pull guys out of the paint onto him for an easy dish down low to Jermaine or Al or anyone in the paint. I hope it's moreso the latter than the former but a couple of those times I was screaming at the tv "PULL THE ****ING TRIGGER" very frustrating.

DG4mvp
11-22-2006, 12:02 AM
The only complaint I have for tinsley and I don't know there could be a good reason for it. there was sometimes there was NOBODY within miles of him just staring him down and he would look at the basket and then pull it back down. He's either not very confident in his ability to hit wide open shots OR he's pulling up like that to try to pull guys out of the paint onto him for an easy dish down low to Jermaine or Al or anyone in the paint. I hope it's moreso the latter than the former but a couple of those times I was screaming at the tv "PULL THE ****ING TRIGGER" very frustrating.
I thought that most Pacers were at fault for overpassing which led to TO. I never thought I would write such a statement before. They were kind of passive at times. This is a step in the right direction IMO. They also broke the press effectively at times with quick passes.

Unclebuck
11-22-2006, 12:07 AM
Anyone else notice Foster's three sweet passes in the second quarter

MagicRat
11-22-2006, 12:07 AM
Since I usually criticize Tinsley, let me pay him a compliment. His scoring tonight was timely and he did a pretty good job of running the team.

I like Rick's compliment better: "Jamaal Tinsley willed us to this win."

Unclebuck
11-22-2006, 12:10 AM
I like Rick's compliment better: "Jamaal Tinsley willed us to this win."

You could see Jamaal's determination tonight - so Rick's discription is good

TheDon
11-22-2006, 12:16 AM
agreed in my opinion the best example of that the "breaking down the defense" was sarunas' crafty little backdoor pass RIGHT to jackson on the cut to the basket. That was a thing of beauty. I'm really excited to see how well we do tomorrow against Dwight Howard tomorrow I love the games between him and Jermaine but it seems like we know something about DH that other teams don't cause Orlando is doing pretty dang good this year. I think I recall Denari pointing it out on one of the games that DH has issues going it was either to his right or left and it seemed like he was bothered by that type of defense the rest of the night. Like I said in a previous post i'm SO glad it's the holidays and I'm home so I can watch my pacers instead of having to sit and watch the stupid ESPN GameCasts. Lets make it 3 in a row boys GO PACERS!!

wooooo 11 games without a tinjury!!!!! :woot: :happydanc :jump:

Jumper
11-22-2006, 12:30 AM
Ok so I watched the first half and it was really the first half of Pacer ball I have the fortune of seeing in its entirety. For the most part I watched and witnessed what I expected, the things that stuck out were that:

Sarunas is much more confident in his playmaking than he was last year. There were a few times when he was actually a few steps ahead of the other Pacers in his passing.

DA, man I wish this guy was 27 instead of 37(?) the guy is all heart. When he came back to block that shot (even though it was a foul) exemplified his style as a player.

Jackson is so much more even keeled than last year.

Daniels knows his limits, he had some opportunities beyond the arc and each time he would penetrate or make the quick pass. He knows the 3 isn't part of his game and didn't force it.

JO, somehow this guy made himself look younger but play older. Not older in a step slower less explosive manner, but rather he is smarter and more controlled. There is no more posing to the cameras, flexing to the crowd, and scowling at the opposition. He is all business, at least in the first half. On the defensive side he is constantly looking for the block and I did see him boxing some guys out. Very pleased with how he approached the game tonight, if he can continue to do this then there should be a lot of happy Pacer faithful.

That said this came against a struggling 3-7 team. This team is gonna take a month or two until the really start to gel. As of right now they are a 6 or 7 seed in my opinion. But if everyone remains on the court and continues to become more familiar with each other, I could see this being a dangerous team.

JayRedd
11-22-2006, 12:31 AM
wooooo 11 games without a tinjury!!!!! :woot: :happydanc :jump:

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....

DG4mvp
11-22-2006, 12:42 AM
Anyone else notice Foster's three sweet passes in the second quarter
Yep, he looked just like a Brad Miller/ C-Webb hybrid on those plays. Definitely an underrated passer. Other highlights:
1) DA's block as mentioned earlier by Jumper ( wrongfully called a foul) reminiscent of Nate Robinson's block on Yao Ming.
2) SJax timely Jumper to take the lead
3) JO's blocks and Al 's board work
4) Daniels help defense ( it's cliche but he does all the little things well)
5) JT's assertiveness on the last play.
6) Team spirit

JayRedd
11-22-2006, 12:50 AM
Two other things......

1. Granger's block was fantastic

2. Jack played well down the stretch by finishing that 3-pt play, stepping in to drill that jumper, and guarding Redd on the final few possessions. And while I'm glad he blocked that last 3-pt shot attempt, if that guy wasn't a rookie he probably would have drawn a foul on that. The guy faded to avoid contact whereas Redd, Cassell, Peja, Chauncey or dozens of NBA vets would have stepped into the shot and probably kicked their feet to get to the line with three chances to send it to Over Time. So...good block Jack, but that was ill-advised.

edit: I lied...Three things.

3. JO is playing phenomenal defense lately. Only 2 blocks today but he is challenging every shot taken in the paint and has penetrators thinking about him coming from the weakside on every layup attempt. I can't remember seeing him this active for a long, long time. I really, really, really, really hope he keeps this up as the season wears on. It makes our entire defense so much better. He really has owned the paint for long stretches in our first 11 games.

Naptown_Seth
11-22-2006, 12:51 AM
You could see Jamaal's determination tonight - so Rick's discription is good
I only got to see the 4th because I forgot to Tivo (DOH) but his line is great and what I saw was much improved play out of him, much more like the Tins we know and love (well me at least).

This year he had stopped being the "most important player" for the Pacers and turned into the least critical/helpful guy (he and Sarunas). The last 2 years we've put his ABSENCE as the problem because when he played he made the offense better (literally the FG% for the team was better with him than without).

Tonight he appeared to recapture that some. Now if we can only get Danny back to 3-4 3PAs max.

I didn't get to see the first half so I missed some of this Cabbage's action. I wish I hadn't because I've been wanting to see some good play out of him again. I hate to point it out though, but he still turned the ball over more often per minute than any other Pacer on the night. He's got to get better at protecting possessions (JT too, both went over their season average TO rates)

Also we need to find Jack's 3pt shot. Did Brizzi perhaps hold it as evidence, maybe run it for DNA? Has anyone looked around the Rio parking lot to see if it got dropped there? Someone go good cop/bad cop on Fingers to see if he stole it (hint, if Fingers is dropping 3 bombs left and right at the prison court you might want to frisk him). :D

McKeyFan
11-22-2006, 12:55 AM
I'm thinking it got left in Atlanta.

odeez
11-22-2006, 01:00 AM
Nice win for the Pacers. Now let's go out there and give it to Cleveland and Orlando!

JayRedd
11-22-2006, 01:06 AM
Also we need to find Jack's 3pt shot. Did Brizzi perhaps hold it as evidence, maybe run it for DNA? Has anyone looked around the Rio parking lot to see if it got dropped there? Someone go good cop/bad cop on Fingers to see if he stole it (hint, if Fingers is dropping 3 bombs left and right at the prison court you might want to frisk him). :D

It has to be the wrist

His form looks fine. His balance looks fine. He's shooting in rythm mostly and not rushing many shots. I think his selection is fine (for him). By his body language he doesn't seem to be pressing or looking like he's going through one of those mental block situations that streaky guys tend to go through where they don't think the ball is going in. He certainly didn't hesitate to step in and drill that 20 footer very late in the 4th tonight. He looked confident, didn't hesistate, pulled the trigger and nailed it.

But throughout the games this year, his ball is just hitting the rim erratically. Long then short then right then short then left then long then left then short....He's all over the place.

Like always, I'm just assuming he's more hurt than he's letting on. Wrist injuries are weird and inconsistent and he probably never even knows until he snaps his shot whether or not he's going to feel the pain or stiffness or clicking or whatever the issue is.

Give it two more weeks and I think we'll see an improvement. Dude did get leveled by a car.

Naptown_Seth
11-22-2006, 01:16 AM
JayRedd - yeah, he is one for playing no matter what. I was at the game after the Lakers game fall, the one we expected him to miss. I had 3rd row down by the Pacers bench end and wouldn't you know it he took another hard fall in that game at that end and toward our side. From that close you could feel the sound of it.

Dude got up and just kept on playing, and inside you are just thinking "give me a break, you know you are feeling that". His tough guy mentality clearly crosses over to stuff like this, for better or worse.


I had been wondering if its the new ball before this wrist thing came up. I agree that he's been getting "his shot" from the arc. Plenty of time usually, does look like the form, does miss all sorts of different ways.

One concern, especially if it is the wrist, will his shot come back. If it doesn't then the Pacers are going to find the spacing issues getting worse. I want inside scores, but you must have the THREAT of an outside make to keep teams honest.

joeyd
11-22-2006, 01:20 AM
I need to cut this short, but I love it that so many fans left and they missed a great finish, maybe, just maybe they will think again about leaving before the game is really decided

Well, I was one of those fans that left early, with about 4 minutes to go. Although I admit that it looked grim at the time I left, I would have stayed til the end, but my little boy did well for over 3 quarters and was getting restless and cranky. Given that we only paid $4 for tickets, we had a nice family outing, and my kid got his first autograph (JO !!!). An FSN cameraman even taped him as we came into Conseco and said he would be on the broadcast, but unfortunately I didn't think to set my VCR before I left for the game. Anyway, onto some comments:

1. Good to see Sarunas riding a hot streak, even if only temporary.
2. Took a deep breath whenever Jackson took long-range jumpers early on, but he still remains one of my favorite players
3. If he stays healthy, Foster will have a great season. I watched him tonight, always moving and setting picks. He indeed had some nice passes and seems more assertive when he touches the ball.
4. While Granger will be overshadowed by other higher profile guys on the team who may rebound or block more shots, he is evolving into a very good defensive player.
5. I am feeling better and better about Armstrong. He delivered a timely shot and a timely foul (on a break, I think), and the old guy is leading by example.
6. I can't believe that even with the $4 ticket promo, the upper level was so sparsely populated, even at the beginning of the game, not to mention toward the end.

Trader Joe
11-22-2006, 02:17 AM
Here are my thoughts on tonight, a great game to be at and I must say the team showed guts.

I have said it once, I will say it a thousand times, as goes Jamaal Tinsley so go the Pacers. Tins is the second best player on this team after JO and I want to see him to continue to be allowed to do what he did tonight. Fantastic play and I still believe he may be the most clutch player on this team. If anyone remembers him immediately after the brawl before he got hurt he was a consistent go to threat late in games with his ability to hit in the lane. He made the game winner tonight and really showed up in the second half.

JO was fantastic again. 26 and 13 and very good on D as has been usual.

Honestly I don't have much to say on this game as far as the Pacers go other than we need to keep our play at this level in terms of effort. I will give a more in depth observation after the Cavs game on Friday as to where I think this team is going.

Just some overall observations from the Bucks and the refs is this. First off, man are Mo Williams and Michael Redd a bunch of whiny little girls. Redd was expecting to get calls every time he touched the ball and at one point late in the 4th as we came back, jumped up and down several times after a call he felt went against him. I mean really like a whiny little girl and I was stunned a T wasn't called. I have seen them called for much less this year. Mo wasn't much better has he seemed to think he got fouled every time he went to the hoop. On top of that, I believe they may be the whiniest backcourt in the NBA from the two games I have seen them.

Oh, one other thing, Violet Palmer still couldn't ref her way out of a paper bag and I have no idea how she got in the league to begin with.

Trader Joe
11-22-2006, 02:22 AM
I like Rick's compliment better: "Jamaal Tinsley willed us to this win."

Heck yes he did, he was encouraging, laughing, confident, in other words exactly what you would expect from a vet PG. When everyone else seemed to hang their heads when the Bucks made their run to the 9 point lead, Tins continued to push the pace and lead by example. I wanted to run down and kiss him on that bald head.

Moses
11-22-2006, 03:09 AM
Most impressive thing of all about this win is that we finished on a 14-0 run.

Haven't seen a Pacers team do that in a very long time.

Bball
11-22-2006, 03:55 AM
I keep asking myself what the prevailing mood would've been if the Pacers had only went on an 8-0 run (thus losing the game).

The fact is, it was a 14-0 run. I understand that. But considering how the game looked bleak in the final 4 mins or so did this 14-0 run erase everything that led to the 'bleakness'? Would the mood have been so giddy if the run had came up a little short?

IOW... Is this a case of being a little too high after a win... just the same as sometimes being a little too low after a loss?

I guess you take your wins (and losses) and move onto the next game. I'm just curious how many were already preparing/typing their complaints, reasons, excuses for the loss tonight and suddenly forgot all about that. Was everybody quite so happy and satisfied at the 4 minute mark of the 4th qtr (or whatever the point where the Pacers were down by 9)? Or another way to say it: How much does the comeback skew the analysis?

Maybe I should scan the game thread. My answer might be there.

-Bball

JayRedd
11-22-2006, 04:09 AM
I keep asking myself what the prevailing mood would've been if the Pacers had only went on an 8-0 run (thus losing the game).

The fact is, it was a 14-0 run. I understand that. But considering how the game looked bleak in the final 4 mins or so did this 14-0 run erase everything that led to the 'bleakness'? Would the mood have been so giddy if the run had came up a little short?

IOW... Is this a case of being a little too high after a win... just the same as sometimes being a little too low after a loss?

I guess you take your wins (and losses) and move onto the next game. I'm just curious how many were already preparing/typing their complaints, reasons, excuses for the loss tonight and suddenly forgot all about that. Was everybody quite so happy and satisfied at the 4 minute mark of the 4th qtr (or whatever the point where the Pacers were down by 9)? Or another way to say it: How much does the comeback skew the analysis?

Maybe I should scan the game thread. My answer might be there.

-Bball

I try not to get caught up in wins and loses at this point in the season. I really don't think anyone's record matters much until the New Year anyway. That goes for the whole League and I don't think ESPN and the like are doing the NBA any real service with their Power Rankings being so tightly linked to team records at this point. Phoenix and Dallas will be just fine and the Hawks will not be anything close to fine. Weird things happen early on and for a lot of guys this is still a glorified, extended preseason at this point.

Anyways, I agree that we should have lost tonight. I don't get a lot of piece of mind out of a win like this. It's nice to see the guys not give up, and it's nice we got very lucky and get a W instead of an L, but I don't think games like this prove a lot. Fact is that we are well rested after not having played in a few days and needed a 14-0 run to come back against an extremely banged-up Milwaukee team at home.

I like seeing JO's defense, and I like seeing Tinsley's resolve, and I like just watching Danny mature....But I certainly don't like seeing us have to win games like that.

Eindar
11-22-2006, 04:30 AM
I keep asking myself what the prevailing mood would've been if the Pacers had only went on an 8-0 run (thus losing the game).

The fact is, it was a 14-0 run. I understand that. But considering how the game looked bleak in the final 4 mins or so did this 14-0 run erase everything that led to the 'bleakness'? Would the mood have been so giddy if the run had came up a little short?

IOW... Is this a case of being a little too high after a win... just the same as sometimes being a little too low after a loss?

I guess you take your wins (and losses) and move onto the next game. I'm just curious how many were already preparing/typing their complaints, reasons, excuses for the loss tonight and suddenly forgot all about that. Was everybody quite so happy and satisfied at the 4 minute mark of the 4th qtr (or whatever the point where the Pacers were down by 9)? Or another way to say it: How much does the comeback skew the analysis?

Maybe I should scan the game thread. My answer might be there.

-Bball



Obviously the Pacers are the most dominant team in the East.

There's your answer :)

D-BONE
11-22-2006, 07:57 AM
JT was big with timely offense and running the show. However, I'd just like to emphasize that it was his noticeably improved defensive intensity that really set last night's performance apart from what we've generally gotten from him this season.

He was very active being a pest around the ball and in the passing lanes. This has always been one of his better areas defensively. He got some steals, was involved in scrums for looseballs, and basically got in the ballhandler's way sufficiently to earn us a few extra possessions and lead by example with his effort. This has not usually been the case so far this year.

And then lo and behold as our defense tightened to nearly suffocating them down the stretch, I saw Tins actually clamp down on D on a few possessions on Williams. Getting right up into him, moving his feet enough to make him at least work to get by, showing serious effort to get through picks, etc.

RC underlined the defensive effort from him in an interview. Yes it goes right along with the intensity he brought to his entire game but when he brings anything on D, we are so much better for it. Give me some more of that Tinsley (and Sarunas for that matter) and I promise no more allusions to Quis getting time at PG.

Hicks
11-22-2006, 08:02 AM
I don't have any time, but I will say that I was at the game, and the stats are extremely deceiving tonight. That was one of the ugliest, most boring games I've ever seen, and our offense looked horribly 95% of the time. I had much more fun talking with RGnome and Peck than watching the cylon offense and what can reluctantly be described as "defense". That ending was great and fun, but that was about the only time.

A lot of the individual players' stats felt "empty" to me. I'm not sure how else to explain it. It's kind of like how Stephon Marbury gets 20 points and something like 8 assists, but you know he's a bad player. There were a lot of individuals out there tonight versus a team of 5.

Unclebuck
11-22-2006, 09:33 AM
Hicks, the 18-2 run by the Pacers had to be a lot of fun also.

Couple of things are clear:

1) The Pacers are dependent upon their defense. Good defense fuels their offense.

2) Pacers need to hit a few 3 pointers because teams are sure packing it in on the Pacers.

SycamoreKen
11-22-2006, 10:57 AM
Hicks, the 18-2 run by the Pacers had to be a lot of fun also.

Couple of things are clear:

1) The Pacers are dependent upon their defense. Good defense fuels their offense.

2) Pacers need to hit a few 3 pointers also because teams are sure packing it in on the Pacers.

I didn't see the game, or many at all this season, but looking at the numbers tells me the Pacers need to hit more shots period. I was wondering how they won this game after looking at the percentages until I saw the Bucks were worse. It may sound simplistic, but we just have to shoot better.

I'm happy we won and Tins played well. I was surprised when I read the recap and the first thing noted was Tinsley's defensive effort.

BillS
11-22-2006, 10:57 AM
Hicks did we watch the same game?

Notwithstanding the fact that we mostly (again) couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, the ball movement was constant and cross-court. To me, the fact that Bucks defenders constantly were crossing court to cover for the possible pass into the post led to some tired legs that helped keep them from scoring late in the fourth.

I also felt the defense was stronger than I had expected, especially given some nice coverage by Saras in the second quarter. I saw shots being challenged properly but when folks are hitting even with a hand right in their face what can you do? We seemed to do a pretty good job of denying the ball to the hot hand in most cases.

Our offense got lots of open looks and couldn't put the ball in the hole. This led to the problem some people noted where players would be open and would pass up the shot - our confidence is beginning to hurt us. However, that led to us trying everything we could to get the ball down low, and even though we bricked a number of those shots as well we finally got aggressive enough to get some fouls called.

There were a lot of sloppy moments with everyone bobbling the ball around trying to get control, but the one thing I took away from this game was that at no point diod the team take that mental step back and say, "We're done, let's save it for Friday."

In general, I agree with UB - we have GOT to start hitting our outside shots. Note that we saw Jax (among others but Jax I noticed particularly) moving in about one step at a time trying to find a closer range in order to get their rhythms going. This means they aren't just flinging the ball up and hoping it will go in, they are actively trying to get the shot going when they are having problems. I don't think we need to be able to hit 3's, just long 2's that keep the defense from collapsing would be fine.

It wasn't a pretty game but I wouldn't call it boring. I wouldn't call it knock-your-socks-off exciting, either, but for the most part it showed me the things I like to watch on the floor.

Unclebuck
11-22-2006, 11:07 AM
Just as a demonistration of the Pacers ball movement. Chris Denari last night was talking about what percent of the Pacers baskets this season were assisted (as that is probably one of the best stats on whether a team is moving the ball well) The pacers were somewhere in the 60% range which I think Chris said was the 5th best in the NBA.

Isaac
11-22-2006, 12:01 PM
Just as a demonistration of the Pacers ball movement. Chris Denari last night was talking about what percent of the Pacers baskets this season were assisted (as that is probably one of the best stats on whether a team is moving the ball well) The pacers were somewhere in the 60% range which I think Chris said was the 5th best in the NBA.

Actually, I'm pretty sure he said best in the league.

Jermaine was great last night. He played exactly how I want him to play. He sort of just lurked around and didn't make himself really noticeable, but he was consistent all game long, and didn't make any bad decisions. This is exactly what we need from JO night in and night out.

I've heard a little bit of harping on Danny for taking so many threes but I really have no problem with the shots he took. They were zoning us to death, and every three Danny took was a good shot that he should take. He didn't knock down as many of them as he should have, but I feel comfortable with Danny taking threes. Jamaal has improved his 3 point shot as well. I don't scream "NO" every time he launches one like I used to.

Like UB, I was shocked what Al came out of the game and Denari said he had 18 boards, that came out of nowhere. I guess its because he had a couple plays where he got like 4 rebounds in a row under the basket. Al may not have played that well offensively, but that one reverse layup he hit to end our dryspell was a big, big bucket. I knew after that shot that the momentum was going to swing back our way.

3 cheers for Jamaal!! I really loved his game. He got to the basket, and really went at Mo (Or as Quinn Buckner would call him, Michael) Williams defensively. That took Mo out of his game offensively just enough.

Speaking of Quinn Buckner, did anyone notice how often he messed up players names? I felt like I was watching a Bulls game with Johnny Redd Kerr.

Trader Joe
11-22-2006, 12:13 PM
Hicks, the 18-2 run by the Pacers had to be a lot of fun also.

Couple of things are clear:

1) The Pacers are dependent upon their defense. Good defense fuels their offense.

2) Pacers need to hit a few 3 pointers because teams are sure packing it in on the Pacers.
If Jack can find his shot ever he will have a couple of big games against this zone teams are running against us and will hopefully allow us to get back to facing man to man. I expect this to happen eventually because Jack's threes are mostly good open shots and eventually they will fall I think.

TheDon
11-22-2006, 02:47 PM
Obviously the Pacers are the most dominant team in the East.

There's your answer :)



Tell me bill walton didn't say that, it just always makes ya feel a little uneasy when he has something good to say about a small market team. It's like the executioner complimenting you before he kicks the lever that drops the trap door out from under ya...just somethin not right about that :hmm: .

Anyways in regards to the person that wondered what my feelings would have been if we came up short, I would have been ticked as I pointed out in an earlier post perhaps on another thread. Rick sitting sarunas annoyed me to no end the fact that we were able to come back from it though and get the win is always nice. We definately didn't play our best we had 20 turnovers, and I think our team realizes this in most of the quotes from after the game on pacers.com everyone was looking forward and starting to focus on Orlando and saying they need to build on this. I don't think a win or a loss this early in the season given everyone elses record is a big deal there's only I believe four teams in the east right now who are over .500 in the win/loss ratio the pacers, pistons, magic, cavs. It cracks me up there are so many new faces on the team this year and I still think we'll make the playoffs. If we make it this year or deep into the playoffs I'm convinced the only thing that would survive after a nuclear holocaust is cockroaches and the Pacers.

imawhat
11-22-2006, 02:48 PM
Just a few quick notes from the game:


-The play of the game was Stephen's block at the end. He made one heck of a play coming off of another guy. People always talk about his basketball IQ, and I think that was a very heady play. So impressive.

-I saw something different in Jax's last two shots. I would bet $100 that he has a great shooting night in one of his next two games.

-Jermaine was great. This is the way he should play every night. I think he still has room for improvement, but it was great to see him go towards the basket for shots instead of jumping up or fading away. I hope his wrist is okay because he took a very nasty spill. I wouldn't be surprised if he missed tonight's game.

-Tinsley didn't look that good until the last few minutes, and I still think his decisions weren't that good, including his last shot.

-Al finally played off of Jermaine. I hope this is a sign of developing chemistry and not a one game fluke. They could really complement each other well. It was also obvious that he had back pain tonight. I hope he gets better soon.

-Sarunas played really good in the first half and so/so in the second. He sparked our run in the second quarter, and we may've lost tonight without his ability to break the zone.

-Our offense tonight was excellent, except at the point where Milwaukee switched zones. In the first half we were putting Foster near the free-throw line and running something similar to the old "Princeton" offense with lots of backdoor cuts to the basket. The passing was very crisp.

-We need to tighten up our transition defense. Milwaukee had a good FG% in the first half solely based on having 17 fast break points. That's way, way too many.

-Most importantly, we kept our heads in the game even though we were down by 9 with under three minutes to go. I don't think we did that once last year, so it was very refreshing.

CableKC
11-22-2006, 02:57 PM
Why can't we play like the way that we played in the 2nd half of the first Bucks game and the last QTR of the last game all the time?

Is it a lack of focus?

Did someone light a match under the team's butt?

What's the difference?

JayRedd
11-22-2006, 03:01 PM
The play of the game was Stephen's block at the end. He made one heck of a play coming off of another guy. People always talk about his basketball IQ, and I think that was a very heady play. So impressive.

Like I said before, I thought that was a dumb play. Good that he got the block but if that rookie wasn't purposely fading away from the contact on his release, that's a foul. Jack landed right where most shooters would have come down. Michael Redd would have been on the line.


As for our shooting....All we're going to see are zones until we prove we can knock something down. We've seemed to be able to handle it, but I really hate watching zone defense so I hope we start makings some jumpers.

ALF68
11-22-2006, 03:24 PM
Like I said before, I thought that was a dumb play. Good that he got the block but if that rookie wasn't purposely fading away from the contact on his release, that's a foul. Jack landed right where most shooters would have come down. Michael Redd would have been on the line.


As for our shooting....All we're going to see are zones until we prove we can knock something down. We've seemed to be able to handle it, but I really hate watching zone defense so I hope we start makings some jumpers.
Jack's block was a good timely block, however I agree with you that it could just as easy went the other way. I don't fault Jack for being agressive but his judjement sometimes isn't the greatest.