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View Full Version : Whats wrong with Tinsley?



aceace
11-19-2006, 11:06 AM
Last night against Milwaukee we're nursing a 5 point lead and have the ball. Tinsley takes a 3 pt shot with 11 seconds on the shot clock! With about 30 seconds to go he launches a 30ft 3 pt shot with 6 seconds on the shot clock and thankfully Jeff Foster was there to catch the air ball and put it in. Two horrible shots late in the game.

Pitons
11-19-2006, 11:11 AM
I think Saras is guilty, that's why. He played very bad and got F mark. If not him, Pacers should have had 20 points lead and there wouldn't be such problems with Tins.

D-BONE
11-19-2006, 11:57 AM
I don't know. He doesn't look like he's completely adjusted/certain of his role yet. His play has been inconsistent. There is no explanation for those two shots and he again demonstrated his tendency to pound the dribble into oblivion sapping the majority of the decisive, crunch-time possessions.

It may be that this dribble-happiness is at partially due to the defense and they types of plays or sets RC calls late in close games. Or is JT getting more leeway to do that now in those circumstances? Either way it's disturbing that our ball and player movement focus seems to disappear in those important situations.

As we know, for JT to be truly effective he must contribute some offense, really stand out passing and running the team, and hopefully add in a couple steals, maybe the one defensive area in which he can offer something.

The above must be better than average production consistently to offset his on the ball defensive liabilities. Although he's never been good here it just seems like he's worse than ever. He has chipped in well rebounding from the backcourt though in recent games. Every little bit counts on a rebounding challenged team.

Our alternatives for big minutes are limited at PG so I can only say I hope he can improve as the season continues. Or start pursuing a trade. Greene is the PG wild card but I don't know how much he could help. Will we see him any time soon? Can he play with the brace? He's dressed now a couple times. Quis at the point? Guess that's been ruled out. Perhaps rightly so.

Doug
11-19-2006, 12:07 PM
Sinusitis?

BlueNGold
11-19-2006, 12:25 PM
Tinsley has three problems. Otherwise, he is an above avg starting PG.

1) He is not a physically healthy player. That's obvious from his average of missing roughly 40% of the games the last 3 years. This DESTROYS the continuity of the team.

2) He has a character problem resulting in selfish one-upsmanship to the detriment of the team the vast majority of the time. This is simply not how a mature leader needs to act.

3) He is a poor shooter.

oops, make it 4 problems

4) He is a terrible defensive player, only a notch above Saras.

D-BONE
11-19-2006, 12:47 PM
Tinsley has three problems. Otherwise, he is an above avg starting PG.

1) He is not a physically healthy player. That's obvious from his average of missing roughly 40% of the games the last 3 years. This DESTROYS the continuity of the team.

2) He has a character problem resulting in selfish one-upsmanship to the detriment of the team the vast majority of the time. This is simply not how a mature leader needs to act.

3) He is a poor shooter.

oops, make it 4 problems

4) He is a terrible defensive player, only a notch above Saras.

So, in other words, you essentially rate him as a borderline average to below average NBA starting PG?

BlueNGold
11-19-2006, 01:02 PM
So, in other words, you essentially rate him as a borderline average to below average NBA starting PG?

I am not sure how to rate him. He definitely has talent. He has an incredible handle and great court vision. However, you have to look at the whole picture and how him as your starting PG affects your team.

His health issues have been a major disruption. His one on one style has been a detriment at times. His defense has been matador, particularly this year. His shooting has not been great either. Not sure how you can rate him above average based on these facts.

Evan_The_Dude
11-19-2006, 01:11 PM
I don't get why this is the only place I ever read or hear about things like line #2.

BlueNGold
11-19-2006, 01:30 PM
I don't get why this is the only place I ever read or hear about things like line #2.

People who frequent this place (pacers digest) know more about the Pacers than any place else you will find, except within the confines of Conseco Fieldhouse. You will hear things here that will not come up in your personal circle, for whatever reason that might be. So, I'm not at all surprised that this is the only place you hear this.

In any event, the question is whether it is a fact and how it impacts this team. IMO it's painfully obvious that Tinsley, quite often, PERSONALLY attempts to return the favor when he gets burned on the other end of the floor. Goodness gracious, you have to admit having seen this...that is, if you watch the games.

Unclebuck
11-19-2006, 01:49 PM
Last night against Milwaukee we're nursing a 5 point lead and have the ball. Tinsley takes a 3 pt shot with 11 seconds on the shot clock! With about 30 seconds to go he launches a 30ft 3 pt shot with 6 seconds on the shot clock and thankfully Jeff Foster was there to catch the air ball and put it in. Two horrible shots late in the game.

I pointed those two shots out in the postgame thread. Two terrible shots, he also took a couple of bad ones late in the Nets game.

Why did he take those, I don't know. I've always said Tinsley has too much mental toughness and too much confidence in his abilities

BlueNGold
11-19-2006, 01:55 PM
Quis at the point? Guess that's been ruled out. Perhaps rightly so.

I would like to see Quis given a chance to run this team, primarily because he would give us a tremendous defender at PG. He would also be a big time mismatch on offense against most PG's in the league. He is certainly quick enough to handle it. He has good playmaking abilities and handles the ball at least as good as AJ did.

He does not have the tremendous handle of Tinsley, but that's about it.

Bball
11-19-2006, 02:00 PM
"Whats wrong with Tinsley?"

He's simply not as good as advertised. With his frequent injuries and illnesses he got to spend a lot of time on the bench where his legend could grow. Everyone was looking for a reason why the Pacers weren't as good as they hoped. Tinsley made a great place to hang your hat "We should be a contender yet we're losing to the scourge of the NBA. What are we missing? Tinsley! As soon as he comes back and gets healthy, he'll be the answer!"

Of course he never is the answer. Sure in the past he has a good game or a very nice play here and there but ultimately he falls back into what he is and that is not as good as advertised. It shows when he's on the court.... and this season (so far) he's on the court.

IMHO.
-Bball

D-BONE
11-19-2006, 02:11 PM
I would like to see Quis given a chance to run this team, primarily because he would give us a tremendous defender at PG. He would also be a big time mismatch on offense against most PG's in the league. He is certainly quick enough to handle it. He has good playmaking abilities and handles the ball at least as good as AJ did.

He does not have the tremendous handle of Tinsley, but that's about it.

I think it's worth a try. It's not as if we'd be sacrificing outstanding play from our current crop of PGs. DA's been great but obviously he's being utilized about as effectively as possible.

BlueNGold
11-19-2006, 02:23 PM
"Whats wrong with Tinsley?"

He's simply not as good as advertised. With his frequent injuries and illnesses he got to spend a lot of time on the bench where his legend could grow. Everyone was looking for a reason why the Pacers weren't as good as they hoped. Tinsley made a great place to hang your hat "We should be a contender yet we're losing to the scourge of the NBA. What are we missing? Tinsley! As soon as he comes back and gets healthy, he'll be the answer!"

Of course he never is the answer. Sure in the past he has a good game or a very nice play here and there but ultimately he falls back into what he is and that is not as good as advertised. It shows when he's on the court.... and this season (so far) he's on the court.

IMHO.
-Bball

There is some truth to this. I am trying my best to be objective on Tinsley. I have many times been amazed by what he brings, but more often than not, I am disappointed by his play. This has gone on for years and I do not see a light at the end of the tunnel with him.

He is what he is, and like you say, he is not as good as advertised. His legend has definitely grown as he sat on the bench.

Unclebuck
11-19-2006, 02:54 PM
"Whats wrong with Tinsley?"

He's simply not as good as advertised. With his frequent injuries and illnesses he got to spend a lot of time on the bench where his legend could grow. Everyone was looking for a reason why the Pacers weren't as good as they hoped. Tinsley made a great place to hang your hat "We should be a contender yet we're losing to the scourge of the NBA. What are we missing? Tinsley! As soon as he comes back and gets healthy, he'll be the answer!"

Of course he never is the answer. Sure in the past he has a good game or a very nice play here and there but ultimately he falls back into what he is and that is not as good as advertised. It shows when he's on the court.... and this season (so far) he's on the court.

IMHO.
-Bball


I agree 100%

McKeyFan
11-19-2006, 03:07 PM
IMO it's painfully obvious that Tinsley, quite often, PERSONALLY attempts to return the favor when he gets burned on the other end of the floor. Goodness gracious, you have to admit having seen this...that is, if you watch the games.

IMO, it happens once in a while.

Much more destructive, but analogous to the aforementioned problem (selfishness being the common link) is his unwillingness to make the pass that leads to the assist. This has always killed our team.

aceace
11-19-2006, 03:52 PM
In 03-04 when we won 61 games Tinsley was solid for the most part of the year. So he's capable of being very good. At times he looks lost, doesn't keep track of the shot clock. Why not start Daniels at the 1 and Foster at the 5 move Granger to the 2.

Pitons
11-19-2006, 04:10 PM
In 03-04 when we won 61 games Tinsley was solid for the most part of the year. So he's capable of being very good. At times he looks lost, doesn't keep track of the shot clock. Why not start Daniels at the 1 and Foster at the 5 move Granger to the 2.

He was capable, but is he now capable? That's a question.

Evan_The_Dude
11-19-2006, 06:00 PM
I think Tinsley would be the perfect point guard to play alongside a guy like T-Mac, Carmello Anthony, Kobe Bryant, or any other superstar guard or forward of that status. I don't think he's at his best with two good post guys and a bunch of roleplayers.

speakout4
11-19-2006, 10:18 PM
Just to add to what is not right about Tinsley I believe that he doesn't have the stamina to play extended minutes. He looks more fatigued than the average NBA player and I believe that contributes to poor decisions. I think the team should figure out just how many minutes a quarter he can be effective and not play him any more than that. MD on the other hand may not be as talented but he has the ability to sustain an up tempo game that tinsley doesn't have.
I wouldn't mind seeing a line up of Foster, JO , Harrington, Jackson and MD. Tinsley, Granger and DA can come off the bench. These 8 get the most minutes followed by Marshall and Harrison.

Start MD at the pg and see if the pacers fall behind in the first quarter. There is nothing to lose because we know that the team falls behind when tinsley starts.

pizza guy
11-19-2006, 10:55 PM
Bball nailed it. Legend growing on the bench and not as good as advertised.

Early on in the season, I was very happy with Tinsley. But the more games they play, the less I like him. He goes into the one-on-one, he pounds the ball into the floor, and even though he's shooting better this year, he's still inconsistent and taking bad shots.

Not as good as advertised.