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View Full Version : Two Players Forever Linked: Tony Parker and Jamaal Tinsley



Anthem
05-02-2004, 09:06 PM
That Parker is a decent player, isn't he?

On ESPN last night, one of the guys said that Parker is a top-5 PG in the NBA. I wouldn't go anywhere near that far, but there's no doubt that right now, Parker would definately be picked over Tinsley. Any argument?

So here's my question: will Tinsley ever be a better player than Parker? If not, then what about a better fit for this Pacer team?

ROCislandWarrior
05-02-2004, 09:10 PM
Parker is only 21.


He is quick and can penetrate

He can shoot the ball from the outside and has a nice little floater


Right now I would love to have Parker on this team. If we had him, I don't think anyone would question us coming out of the east.

Parker is a better PG than Tinsley and would be a better fit for this team but he is a Spur.

Wouldn't it be funny if Parker tourched Tinsley in the Finals :cry:

Achilles98
05-02-2004, 09:33 PM
It is only a matter of time before Tinsley becomes the superior player. IMHO, Tins has much better court vision and is more of a quarterback then parker will ever be. All he needs to do is develop a consistent shot and wait for parker to get old and slow down. Give it 12 years and there won't be a contest.

Anthem
05-02-2004, 09:39 PM
It is only a matter of time before Tinsley becomes the superior player. IMHO, Tins has much better court vision and is more of a quarterback then parker will ever be.

See, that's been my knock against Parker... he's been excellent at a lot of things, and he can create, but he had a hard time running the offense. It really looks like he's improved at that this year.

All he needs to do is develop a consistent shot and wait for parker to get old and slow down. Give it 12 years and there won't be a contest.

This is where you lost me. Are you being sarcastic?

Kstat
05-02-2004, 11:04 PM
Tony is a top-5 PG in the NBA. I made that determination after watching him play 50 or so times this year, and he has IMPROVED since then. He's led a team to a title. At this rate, he'll be an all-star for the next TEN seasons, starting next year. And he's only 21 years old.

Look, I like Tinsley. He's shown me some improvement this year. But Parker is a better player. He's better than %95 of the PGs in the NBA, and soon he will be the BEST PG in the NBA. Tim Duncan may be the MVP of the Spurs, but make no mistake: Parker runs the team. He yells at everyone-even TIM DUNCAN- when they begin to break a play. Tony can shoot from the outside, post up, play defense, and he's arguably the quickest player in the league.

Unclebuck
05-02-2004, 11:49 PM
Tony is a top-5 PG in the NBA. I made that determination after watching him play 50 or so times this year, and he has IMPROVED since then. He's led a team to a title. At this rate, he'll be an all-star for the next TEN seasons, starting next year. And he's only 21 years old.

Look, I like Tinsley. He's shown me some improvement this year. But Parker is a better player. He's better than %95 of the PGs in the NBA, and soon he will be the BEST PG in the NBA. Tim Duncan may be the MVP of the Spurs, but make no mistake: Parker runs the team. He yells at everyone-even TIM DUNCAN- when they begin to break a play. Tony can shoot from the outside, post up, play defense, and he's arguably the quickest player in the league.

I agree 100%. No one can stay with Parker off the dribble. He is still only 21

Shade
05-02-2004, 11:51 PM
On ESPN last night, one of the guys said that Parker is a top-5 PG in the NBA. I wouldn't go anywhere near that far...

Who's better?

Shade
05-02-2004, 11:53 PM
Tony is a top-5 PG in the NBA. I made that determination after watching him play 50 or so times this year, and he has IMPROVED since then. He's led a team to a title. At this rate, he'll be an all-star for the next TEN seasons, starting next year. And he's only 21 years old.

Look, I like Tinsley. He's shown me some improvement this year. But Parker is a better player. He's better than %95 of the PGs in the NBA, and soon he will be the BEST PG in the NBA. Tim Duncan may be the MVP of the Spurs, but make no mistake: Parker runs the team. He yells at everyone-even TIM DUNCAN- when they begin to break a play. Tony can shoot from the outside, post up, play defense, and he's arguably the quickest player in the league.

OMG, Kstat...I agree with you COMPLETELY. Remember, Parker was HORRID early in the year, and so were the Spurs. As Parker and Duncan go, so does San Antonio.

Does anyone else see a lot of Foster in Nesterovic?

TheSauceMaster
05-02-2004, 11:55 PM
Tony is a top-5 PG in the NBA. I made that determination after watching him play 50 or so times this year, and he has IMPROVED since then. He's led a team to a title. At this rate, he'll be an all-star for the next TEN seasons, starting next year. And he's only 21 years old.

Look, I like Tinsley. He's shown me some improvement this year. But Parker is a better player. He's better than %95 of the PGs in the NBA, and soon he will be the BEST PG in the NBA. Tim Duncan may be the MVP of the Spurs, but make no mistake: Parker runs the team. He yells at everyone-even TIM DUNCAN- when they begin to break a play. Tony can shoot from the outside, post up, play defense, and he's arguably the quickest player in the league.

Good Post Kstat and I agree :D

Shade
05-02-2004, 11:55 PM
Tony is a top-5 PG in the NBA. I made that determination after watching him play 50 or so times this year, and he has IMPROVED since then. He's led a team to a title. At this rate, he'll be an all-star for the next TEN seasons, starting next year. And he's only 21 years old.

Look, I like Tinsley. He's shown me some improvement this year. But Parker is a better player. He's better than %95 of the PGs in the NBA, and soon he will be the BEST PG in the NBA. Tim Duncan may be the MVP of the Spurs, but make no mistake: Parker runs the team. He yells at everyone-even TIM DUNCAN- when they begin to break a play. Tony can shoot from the outside, post up, play defense, and he's arguably the quickest player in the league.

Yup. It's just so strange saying he's "French" and a "winner" in the same sentence.

:laugh:

Achilles98
05-03-2004, 12:12 AM
It is only a matter of time before Tinsley becomes the superior player. IMHO, Tins has much better court vision and is more of a quarterback then parker will ever be.

See, that's been my knock against Parker... he's been excellent at a lot of things, and he can create, but he had a hard time running the offense. It really looks like he's improved at that this year.

All he needs to do is develop a consistent shot and wait for parker to get old and slow down. Give it 12 years and there won't be a contest.

This is where you lost me. Are you being sarcastic?

sorry, shoulda used some smilies. Parker's main advantage over Tins is the quickness. Not a knock on JT since parker is quicker the most in the NBA. Parker is super quick and creates quite well. The one downside is he doesn't run the offense like Tins can and that is why i think Tinsley will have a longer career. once parker's quickenss goes (granted this will be several years down the road) tinsley has him beat in the mental game. I look at Tinsley to be just like Mark jackson (during his last years here) in a couple of years:unathletic but with great vision and command of the offense.

Of course, this is not to say parker can't improve considerably. I mean, the kid is 21 and still has plenty of upside. I just feel that great court vision is more innate and difficult to learn and this is why i give tinsley the edge in the long run.

Kstat
05-03-2004, 12:26 AM
It is only a matter of time before Tinsley becomes the superior player. IMHO, Tins has much better court vision and is more of a quarterback then parker will ever be.

See, that's been my knock against Parker... he's been excellent at a lot of things, and he can create, but he had a hard time running the offense. It really looks like he's improved at that this year.

All he needs to do is develop a consistent shot and wait for parker to get old and slow down. Give it 12 years and there won't be a contest.

This is where you lost me. Are you being sarcastic?

sorry, shoulda used some smilies. Parker's main advantage over Tins is the quickness. Not a knock on JT since parker is quicker the most in the NBA. Parker is super quick and creates quite well. The one downside is he doesn't run the offense like Tins can and that is why i think Tinsley will have a longer career. once parker's quickenss goes (granted this will be several years down the road) tinsley has him beat in the mental game. I look at Tinsley to be just like Mark jackson (during his last years here) in a couple of years:unathletic but with great vision and command of the offense.

Of course, this is not to say parker can't improve considerably. I mean, the kid is 21 and still has plenty of upside. I just feel that great court vision is more innate and difficult to learn and this is why i give tinsley the edge in the long run.

If you watched the game today you wouldn't be saying that. The Lakers had the Spurs down 7 in the 4th quarter. Where did the Spurs go the first THREE posessions? Parker. Once on a jumper, once on a drive, and once on a POST MOVE. The defining play of the game was when the spurs were up four, and Parker called a play. Duncan was on the wrong side of the floor. Parker screams at Duncan- mind you, the MVP OF THE LEAGUE- repeatedly. Duncan sets one pick, hands off to parker, parker draws both defenders on a drive and finds Duncan WIDE OPEN for a jumper.

At that point I gave up looking for faults in Parkers game. The kid at age 21 is the LEADER of an NBA champion, and he's the age of the average college senior. His basketball IQ is as good as anyone in the HISTORY of the NBA at that age.

Anthem
05-03-2004, 12:40 AM
On ESPN last night, one of the guys said that Parker is a top-5 PG in the NBA. I wouldn't go anywhere near that far...

Who's better?

1. Jason Kidd. No argument there, right?
2. Starbury. I'm not a big fan, but they went head-to-head last year and Stephon was clearly the better player. Yeah, New York played like crap, but they don't have a coach, Tim Duncan, or a training camp. If I was making a team, I'd pick Parker first, but it's because he'd be a better fit for the kind of team I'd make. I think Steph is the better player.
3. Gary Payton. Despite the poor play so far this postseason, I've got to give the Glove some love. He should never have signed with the Lakers, but he's still the player he has been in years past. DPOY, and was able to carry his team offensively for years.
4. Baron Davis. Yeah, he looked terrible today, but he's running on a bad wheel. He was being mentioned as an MVP candidate earlier in the season.
5. Chauncey Billups. Don't tell Kstat.

There's also SamIAm, Bibby, and Nash that I'd put ahead of Parker. After him would come J.Will, Franchise, Arenas, NVE, and Tinsley.

This is off the top of my head... did I miss anybody important? Heinrich in Chicago, Wade in Miami, and Banks in Boston are pretty promising.

Nobody (besides Achilles) has answered my real question, however... will Tinsley ever catch up to Parker? Will we still be wishing we'd drafted Parker five years from now?

Kstat
05-03-2004, 12:52 AM
On ESPN last night, one of the guys said that Parker is a top-5 PG in the NBA. I wouldn't go anywhere near that far...

Who's better?

1. Jason Kidd. No argument there, right?
2. Starbury. I'm not a big fan, but they went head-to-head last year and Stephon was clearly the better player. Yeah, New York played like crap, but they don't have a coach, Tim Duncan, or a training camp. If I was making a team, I'd pick Parker first, but it's because he'd be a better fit for the kind of team I'd make. I think Steph is the better player.
3. Gary Payton. Despite the poor play so far this postseason, I've got to give the Glove some love. He should never have signed with the Lakers, but he's still the player he has been in years past. DPOY, and was able to carry his team offensively for years.
4. Baron Davis. Yeah, he looked terrible today, but he's running on a bad wheel. He was being mentioned as an MVP candidate earlier in the season.
5. Chauncey Billups. Don't tell Kstat.

There's also SamIAm, Bibby, and Nash that I'd put ahead of Parker. After him would come J.Will, Franchise, Arenas, NVE, and Tinsley.

This is off the top of my head... did I miss anybody important? Heinrich in Chicago, Wade in Miami, and Banks in Boston are pretty promising.

Nobody (besides Achilles) has answered my real question, however... will Tinsley ever catch up to Parker? Will we still be wishing we'd drafted Parker five years from now?

1. Jason Kidd-agreed.

2. Marbury- if the guy had shown ANY amount of leadership in his entire life, I'd agree. But he hasn't, so I don't. He can't make his teamates better. No matter how good os a shotmaker he is, he'll never be a top-5 PG for that reason.

3. Payton- Parker owned payton as a 19-year old ROOKIE in the playoffs two years ago. He went into Seattle, without duncan, and just killed Payton in the clinching game. I don't think Payton has outplayed Parker once in his entire CAREER. Not to mention Payton is way over the hill now.

4. Baron Davis- I cant stand the sonofa***** but I can't say he's not better than Parker, or at least on the same level. He needs to get more under control, but right now Baron is more talented. He's taking on Miami almost single-handidly at times it seems.

5. Billups- Parker is better, and after saying that I'm going to go throw up now. Parker can't guard Billups, but the reverse is true also, and Parker is a better playmaker.

As for Bibby and Nash, neither of them are capable of holding the chair I'm sitting in under 20 points. I'm astonished you left Cassell off your list. He has been the best PG in the NBA over the course of the season.

My top-5 list, in no real order:

Kidd, Parker, Cassell, Davis and Bibby.

wintermute
05-03-2004, 12:55 AM
Nobody (besides Achilles) has answered my real question, however... will Tinsley ever catch up to Parker? Will we still be wishing we'd drafted Parker five years from now?

last year, when speedy claxton was often spelling parker in critical moments, i wouldn't have said so (despite tinsley's own horrible showing). now, well, parker has been amazing. he's really been doing everything you could want from your pg.

so my answer is yes, we would probably would end up wishing we've drafted parker. don't get me wrong, tinsley was a great pick at his draft position, but parker is turning out to be even better.

Anthem
05-03-2004, 01:00 AM
I'm astonished you left Cassell off your list. He has been the best PG in the NBA over the course of the season.

Yeah, it was a tossup. He was #6.

Starbury showed an awful lot of "leadership" and "make your teammates better" last year, remember? He definately outplayed Parker in that series.

The man needs a coach with an offensive strategy. Wilkens is a short step up from chopped liver.

I'm shocked that you put Parker ahead of Billups, but if you say so I'm not going to disagree.

PaceBalls
05-03-2004, 02:14 AM
ya, the kid has all the skills, and he is getting better at his decision making and running the team with each game he plays. He is still young and can lose his confidence easily, but all this talk of him as a top 5 PG is surely a big boost. We'll see how he performs when his jumper isn't falling and the lane is closed.

Millerartest
05-03-2004, 02:43 AM
Maybe I'm biased toward the playoffs, but I'd take Parker over any of those guys except Kidd. He's the number 2 point guard in the league. Forget about the stats. He's got what it takes when it counts. Gary Payton has gotten old, and Bibby may be Parker's equal because he also brings it when his team needs it the most.

If Pacers and Spurs were to meet in the finals, we would realize just how big of a weakness Tinsley's defense actually is.

Kstat
05-03-2004, 02:54 AM
ya, the kid has all the skills, and he is getting better at his decision making and running the team with each game he plays. He is still young and can lose his confidence easily, but all this talk of him as a top 5 PG is surely a big boost. We'll see how he performs when his jumper isn't falling and the lane is closed.

"We'll see how ______ isn't doing when his jumper isn't falling and the lane is closed"

Um, do you have any idea how general of a statement that is? You could say that about ANYONE.....

and if you think Tony is intimidated by ANYONE at this point, you're sorely mistaken.....he's already been through everything an NBA player can go through.

PaceBalls
05-03-2004, 03:32 AM
hey hop off my fender kstat

I was making a point on how young he is and how his confidence is not as solid as say JKidd. Go nitpick someone elses thread

Kstat
05-03-2004, 03:55 AM
hey hop off my fender kstat

I was making a point on how young he is and how his confidence is not as solid as say JKidd. Go nitpick someone elses thread


Actually, I would think Parker would have MORE confidence than Kidd at this point. I mean, after all, Parker can SHOOT.......

3Ball
05-03-2004, 12:45 PM
You know what's scary? The Spurs have like $10 million in CAP room next year. And that's without the mid-level exemption. There is serious talk of trying to get a Kobe or TMac THERE next year. You have to think Kidd is kicking himself right about now.

On top of that, none of their starters have turned 30 yet. In fact, if you get rid of Horry and Willis, they are one of the youngest teams in the league.

How's this for a long range prediction: Spurs are going to represent the west in the finals -- for 2005.

Kegboy
05-03-2004, 01:52 PM
2. Marbury- if the guy had shown ANY amount of leadership in his entire life, I'd agree. But he hasn't, so I don't. He can't make his teamates better. No matter how good os a shotmaker he is, he'll never be a top-5 PG for that reason.

Yeah, but didn't Marbury own Parker in the playoffs last year?

Kegboy
05-03-2004, 02:05 PM
2. Marbury- if the guy had shown ANY amount of leadership in his entire life, I'd agree. But he hasn't, so I don't. He can't make his teamates better. No matter how good os a shotmaker he is, he'll never be a top-5 PG for that reason.

Yeah, but didn't Marbury own Parker in the playoffs last year?

Playing for a shiny new contract extension does wonderufl things for your career. :D

True, true. Just look at Marcus Camby.

Achilles98
05-05-2004, 11:37 PM
The defining play of the game was when the spurs were up four, and Parker called a play. Duncan was on the wrong side of the floor. Parker screams at Duncan- mind you, the MVP OF THE LEAGUE- repeatedly. Duncan sets one pick, hands off to parker, parker draws both defenders on a drive and finds Duncan WIDE OPEN for a jumper.

At that point I gave up looking for faults in Parkers game. The kid at age 21 is the LEADER of an NBA champion, and he's the age of the average college senior. His basketball IQ is as good as anyone in the HISTORY of the NBA at that age.

Not to nitpick, but I wouldn't be surprised if Tim Duncan and I could successfuly run a pick and roll if shaq is defending.

Also, I think LeBron has much higher BBall IQ and he's a couple of years younger the parker. Not to mention Magic, Isiah, and others before my time like Oscar Robertson, Cousy, etc.

PaceBalls
05-05-2004, 11:52 PM
Well, right now Tony just has the skills and speed. He doesn't have the long lasting game that Mark Jackson or John Stockton had, yet. Those one on one scoring PGs only last for a few years before their bodies slow them down to ineffectivenss.

But dang, the kid's got amazing offensive skills. He has the crossover down as well as anyone and can hit the long range jumper, and he has Jamison Brewer type speed.

PaceBalls
05-06-2004, 12:07 AM
Ya, yer right. Tony really is playing some great ball right now. And right now is what matters.

I really think the Pacers or Detroit would not allow him to score like that with those drives though. He would get fouled alot or have his teardrops blocked by the help defense. He might make 15 pts from the line, but no easy buckets. Not to promote dirty play or anything, but you cant let little guards in the lane like that, you gotta try to block... hard

Cactus Jax
05-06-2004, 12:53 AM
I try to not look at who the Pacers could've gotten instead of Tinsley, because he was still a very nice bargain for the 27'TH PICK. It's like complaining about getting a Jaguar over a Viper and paying $10,000 for the car, both are still cheap for the price.

Hoop
05-06-2004, 04:43 AM
I try to not look at who the Pacers could've gotten instead of Tinsley, because he was still a very nice bargain for the 27'TH PICK. It's like complaining about getting a Jaguar over a Viper and paying $10,000 for the car, both are still cheap for the price.

That's a very good point, at the time of the draft Tinsley was a steal and still is. Who would have thought Parker would be this good this fast. I think the Spurs got really lucky with a pick, that at the time looked like a reach.

Tinsley is a true pass first point guard and there are not many left in the league, so IMO it's hard to compare or a rate him against other PG's. Nobody can deny that the Pacer offense runs better with Tinsley at PG, I not sure it would run as smooth with a shoot first PG.

Kstat
05-06-2004, 04:53 AM
I try to not look at who the Pacers could've gotten instead of Tinsley, because he was still a very nice bargain for the 27'TH PICK. It's like complaining about getting a Jaguar over a Viper and paying $10,000 for the car, both are still cheap for the price.

That's a very good point, at the time of the draft Tinsley was a steal and still is. Who would have thought Parker would be this good this fast. I think the Spurs got really lucky with a pick, that at the time looked like a reach.

Tinsley is a true pass first point guard and there are not many left in the league, so IMO it's hard to compare or a rate him against other PG's. Nobody can deny that the Pacer offense runs better with Tinsley at PG, I not sure it would run as smooth with a shoot first PG.

I want to hear ONE person in this forum say, "We'd be a worse team with Parker at PG." Just ONE of you, thats all I need.. :laugh:

Hoop
05-06-2004, 05:13 PM
I try to not look at who the Pacers could've gotten instead of Tinsley, because he was still a very nice bargain for the 27'TH PICK. It's like complaining about getting a Jaguar over a Viper and paying $10,000 for the car, both are still cheap for the price.

That's a very good point, at the time of the draft Tinsley was a steal and still is. Who would have thought Parker would be this good this fast. I think the Spurs got really lucky with a pick, that at the time looked like a reach.

Tinsley is a true pass first point guard and there are not many left in the league, so IMO it's hard to compare or a rate him against other PG's. Nobody can deny that the Pacers offense runs better with Tinsley at PG, I not sure it would run as smooth with a shoot first PG.

I want to hear ONE person in this forum say, "We'd be a worse team with Parker at PG." Just ONE of you, thats all I need.. :laugh:

I didn't say I wouldn't swap Tinsley for Parker, Parker is obviously a better player. We have a lot of guys that need shots and our good chemistry is one of the main reasons we have the record we do. If we had a shoot first PG other changes would most likely have to be made to maintain a proper balance.

Suaveness
05-06-2004, 05:17 PM
I try to not look at who the Pacers could've gotten instead of Tinsley, because he was still a very nice bargain for the 27'TH PICK. It's like complaining about getting a Jaguar over a Viper and paying $10,000 for the car, both are still cheap for the price.

That's a very good point, at the time of the draft Tinsley was a steal and still is. Who would have thought Parker would be this good this fast. I think the Spurs got really lucky with a pick, that at the time looked like a reach.

Tinsley is a true pass first point guard and there are not many left in the league, so IMO it's hard to compare or a rate him against other PG's. Nobody can deny that the Pacer offense runs better with Tinsley at PG, I not sure it would run as smooth with a shoot first PG.

I want to hear ONE person in this forum say, "We'd be a worse team with Parker at PG." Just ONE of you, thats all I need.. :laugh:

We'd be a worse team with Parker at PG.

Anthem
12-04-2004, 01:39 PM
:bump: Has this season changed anybody's opinions?

MSA2CF
12-04-2004, 02:17 PM
Nope, I still love Jamaal. :) He reminds me a lot of Mark Jackson...

MagicRat
04-26-2005, 04:42 PM
Tony Parker would be making a much more positive contribution right now than Jamaal is. But I guess you could say that every time the playoffs roll around.

:blahblah:

I think we all know your feelings about Jamaal's injuries.......no need for ancient thread bumping.......

Slick Pinkham
04-26-2005, 04:42 PM
we'd be worse off still if Raul Lopez, Joe Forte, or Kirk Haston had "slid down" to our pick late in round 1. Or DaSagne Diop for that matter. What a lot of busts in that draft.

Not that Raul Lopez is a bust-- he is decent, but I cited him since he was the only PG taken before JT.

Spicoli
04-26-2005, 05:47 PM
He asked if this season had changed my feelings.

Now that the (regular) season is over, I can weigh in.

I'll post whenever I feel like it. You don't know me. I do what I want. I ran for Congress and won. Whateva.

http://sp24-7.lambtron.com/grabs/601/freak80.jpg

Anthem
04-26-2005, 05:53 PM
You're a weird dude, Btown.

SoupIsGood
04-26-2005, 06:06 PM
I'll post whenever I feel like it. You don't know me. I do what I want. I ran for Congress and won. Whateva.

:laugh:

ImCrazyB
04-26-2005, 06:10 PM
Parker isn't a better long-range or even mid range shooter then Tinsley in my opinion..But he is definitely quicker then Tinsley and can get to the rim better. I think they have the same ball handling skills..Of course I only got to see what Tinsleys full arsenal was for that short period of time he was leading our only 6 players. I never realized the guy could cross people over the way he was doing some people.

In my opinion, If Tinsley had been healthy he would have easily been a top candidate for the Most Improved player of the year. I remember when he started out the year, he was averaging 9-12 assists a game. After November 19th passed along with all of his best shooters, His assists dropped and his points went up.

But I'm drifting away from the subject, Parker and Tinsley at the moment are kind of even..It's just Parker gets alot more publicity.