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Peck
11-11-2006, 06:02 PM
& as a rule you should never get to up after a win or to down after a loss & for all I know the Bulls will kick our @sses tonight but I want to say this now.

There is something differant & dare I say it, special about this team.

The way they act on the floor, the way they act on the bench, the way they play, the way they carry themselves.

This isn't last years team, this isn't even the last 6 years team.

Let's get this out of the way right up front. I wish to God Jackson, Tinsley, Daniels & Hunter had never had club rio happen. Honestly if it wasn't for that I would tell you right now that the fans would be 100% on board with this team. As it is I think the fans have done, for the most part, a fantastic job of letting the whole Jackson thing go. He is not boo'ed like I would have thought he would have been nor is he criticized for every bad shot he takes outside of the normal groaning fans make when any player takes a bad shot.

But past that I can say that the fans seem to really like this team so far.

The atmosphere last night for a very early season game against a very mediocre opponet was almost electric. Not playoff atmosphere per say but the game seemed more important than it was.

Those $4.00 tix were a really good idea I think.

I have spent the last few years stating that the Brad Miller for Scot Pollard trade (yes this again) was the worst trade in the history of the franchise & while I still believe it was a God awful trade I came to the conclusion last season that Al for Jax was the worst trade. Not from a talent standpoint but from a team glue standpoint.

After seeing Al back now for 6 games I am convinced that I was right. Is Al the black hole? I don't think so, I never did, but I know some of you do & you will never see otherwise & that is fine.

But there is no doubt who is the leader both on & off the court with this team. This is Jermaine's team but Al is his man & by Al leading the team it makes Jermaine that much stronger.

The fans love Al, for the most part. I think, & you'll have to open you imagination with me for a min., a lot of the fans cling to Al because he is the last legacy of those great 90's teams.

He was baby Al to all of us & to some of us he still is & always will be. But he was never fake, what you saw with Al was what you got. He wouldn't back down from anybody & he would always step up & try & help lead.

He got that from the Davis's. He lived with Tony but he trained with Dale, a lot of people don't remember that.

He is passionate on the court & like his game or hate his game nobody really ever questions if he is giving his all.

I think the fans here in Indiana see that & man do they react to him when he calls for the crowd to cheer.

Al does something that is so important but it really can't be documented other than just saying it is there.

************************************************** ****

Uncle Buck you will want to skip this next part.

Don't look, I'm giveing you fair warning.

************************************************** *****

Al has washed the stink of Ron Artest off of this team & he's done it in a mere 6 games.

He is everything that Ron is not. By just being himself & not trying to compete with Jermaine for top dog he has quietly established himself as co-top dog & J.O. has no problem with it at all.

He doesn't bog the offense down by holding onto the ball forever & he is in there every time helping with the boards.

************************************************** ******
Ok U.B. it's safe to come back in the water.

Oh who am I kidding I know you read that so you can now just pick yourself up off of the floor from the seizure you just had.;)
************************************************** ******

But don't let me say that it's all Al because it's not. I think he is a huge piece of the pie but to me, & this is where I think the team is starting to look like something special, this is a big pie once again. MMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... pie:drooling:

This is the first time since the 00 team where I don't get the feeling that there are individual goals at play here.

Call me stupid or just call me Mary Sunshine:eyebrow: but I honestly get the feeling that these guys want to win & actually like one another & are happy when the other player is doing well.

To me this starts at the top.

I am going to give credit to Jermaine O'Neal. I'll be honest with you I have always thought that he wanted to make sure he got his. If the team wins great but he wanted to make sure he got his points & to be sure he was an all-star.

Now believe me this is all just my opinion but that's just the way I have always felt about him.

But this year I get the feeling that he seems ok with spreading the love, so to speak, & seems like he genuinely wants to make sure the middle is no place that players want to go to without fearing a big block is coming.

None of this works without him. He gets greedy it's all over, he starts resenting others getting more touches it's all over.

But so far we've seen none of that, so it's important to point out when we see good & right now I've seen some real good with this guy.

Don't get me wrong, he still is getting plenty of touches but the offense doesn't always flow through him anymore & so far I haven't seen even a hint of rebellion on his part.

Let's talk about a player who was demoted but has played bigger than he's ever played in his life.

Jeff Foster has been the starter for a couple of years now & was demoted so that a guy who used to be a small forward could start over him. Did he demand a trade? Does he pout? Nope, he comes in & busts his @ss every single night.

He blocked three shots last night, one so bad I had to ask the diamond one if that really was him or did Granger come over & get it. It was Jeff.

I have not changed my mind one bit on one thing. I cannot stand Foster when he is in with O'Neal. But when he is in with Al, Danny or even Harrison I just love to see him play.

Also a little aknowledged fact about Jeff. He is always one of the guys on the bench cheering on the team & always has been.

He still can't shoot, but in this faster up tempo offense we run I think he is a better player because the style suites him.

Darrel Armstrong & Saras have both been the leaders of the bench cheering squad. In fact it's almost a contest between the two of them to see who can get up off the bench the fastest to cheer a good play by someone on the floor.

Also when both of them come onto the floor there is a real enthusiasm that is there & you can tell they want to be there.

Hell even Tinsley has smiled once or twice while he was on the floor.:D

I'm telling you though out of everything I have talked about there is one thing that is more important than anything & that thing is a person by the name of Rick Carlisle.

Look I was ready for Rick to move on, I though the team had grown tired of him & by Birds admission he lost the team last year.

But he has done something that has changed the entire face of our team but it's not what some of you would think.

Rik has opened up the offense & that is no small thing but the single biggest thing he has done is start playing zone defense.

Why is that important? Because not only is it working on the floor but it is doing something that is paying dividends elswhere. The zone defense is causing the players to play a more team oriented style & thus making it a chain & as we all know a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Right now there is no real weak link in that chain unless Harrison is in there (sadly David has really not only not progressed he is actually regressing but we'll talk about him later).

This is also being done of the offensive side. By taking away the whole isolation one on five mentallity every player on the floor is active on the offensive end & that makes them more active on the defensive end as well & vice a versa.

Everybody is getting a touch & everybody is making a pass (see Jackson as an example as he had 6 dimes last night).

That is why I am oh so glad that the nutball is not here anymore. We are finally once again playing like a team & IMO that sells in Indiana better than anything else ever will.

Ok, that's as close to a Rah-Rah post as I can muster.:sunshine:

I'm sure now that I've come out and said this they will go & stink it up vs. the bulls & I will look like this. :footinmou But what the heck, you gotta go out on a limb every now & then.

So here goes.

I like this team. In fact I really like this team. I don't love it yet but I really like what I've seen so far.

Moses
11-11-2006, 06:07 PM
We welcome you back, brother Peck, to the sunshine brigade. It's been a long, bumpy road..but you've managed to find your way back to the bandwagon.

:sunshine::sunshine::sunshine::sunshine::sunshine: :sunshine::sunshine:

Naptown_Seth
11-11-2006, 06:12 PM
but I honestly get the feeling that these guys want to win & actually like one another & are happy when the other player is doing well.
I agree. They've played some ugly ball so far, but I've never doubted their desire to do well as a team.

I credit Armstrong and Harrington with a lot of it, but also desire from guys like Tinsley and even Jack to make it a better situation. And I think another big factor is that there are just so many new faces, most of which are trying to find a way to contribute somehow and to be a part of the team.

Guys like Rawle, Josh and Shawne are much more open to following the lead of Daryl when he gets into his standing cheerleadeer mode. Then the starters see a bench doing that and it makes them feel good about what is going on and their teammates, which then makes them want to behave the same way.


The fact is that any serious fan probably saw chemistry, especially the whole "having fun" angle on it, as the MAJOR problem with the team. Injuries, shooting, and other talent questions were there, but none should have been a priority over the chemistry issue.


Right now TPTB sure look golden on fixing that most pressing need. Hopefully it will snowball into some really great play by the end of the year, though I'll be satisfied if they just keep smiling and supporting each other.


PS - they probably will get run out of the building by Chicago, but then that's what happens when you face a title contender on the road.

Anthem
11-11-2006, 06:12 PM
That post makes me more optimistic than I've been in a while.

Bball
11-11-2006, 06:57 PM
If things go south I will now forever blame Peck for jinxing the team and angering the basketball gods. :sad:

-Bball

sixthman
11-11-2006, 07:00 PM
The fans love Al, for the most part. I think, & you'll have to open you imagination with me for a min., a lot of the fans cling to Al because he is the last legacy of those great 90's teams.

Your observation about fan attachment for Al having to do with the fact he's our last legacy to those favored team's of the 90's was on target and a very smart take. Enjoyable read, especially for this fan who couldn't be at the game or see it on TV.

Kegboy
11-11-2006, 07:41 PM
Show of hands of who would have thought 3 years ago that I would fall to the darkside and Peck would go all sunshiny on us?

Frank Slade
11-11-2006, 07:41 PM
Peck is onto something. I had been thinking over the last week on the comparison to the 93-94 team, and it would certainly feel to me that it has more validity now. Even though it's early they do just seem to have "it".
A connection that goes further than just being a good teammate on the court.
Almost more of a college team feel.

The way the crowd and team fed off each other, reminded me of the mid to late 90's teams. I certainly think this team at least has a chance at some point to do something special, in the not too distant future.

AesopRockOn
11-11-2006, 08:11 PM
If things go south I will now forever blame Peck for jinxing the team and angering the basketball gods. :sad:

-Bball
:1oscar:

Los Angeles
11-11-2006, 08:39 PM
Brad Miller is injured.

:zip:

Pacesetter
11-11-2006, 09:00 PM
We welcome you back, brother Peck, to the sunshine brigade. It's been a long, bumpy road..but you've managed to find your way back to the bandwagon.

:sunshine::sunshine::sunshine::sunshine::sunshine: :sunshine::sunshine:


Awesome!!!

Good post peck!!! :cool:

D-BONE
11-11-2006, 09:35 PM
Too early for this talk? My heart says yes but my head says no. Of course, a win tonight v. chicago would go a long way to tipping the scales toward my heart. In trying to restrain myself, it almost seems like at least half a season would be required before I get really juiced. However, just as a start I'm quite satisfied. And I'll hope Peck's toast turns out to be and I told you so down the road a piece.

Trader Joe
11-11-2006, 10:51 PM
& as a rule you should never get to up after a win or to down after a loss & for all I know the Bulls will kick our @sses tonight but I want to say this now.

There is something differant & dare I say it, special about this team.

The way they act on the floor, the way they act on the bench, the way they play, the way they carry themselves.

This isn't last years team, this isn't even the last 6 years team.

Let's get this out of the way right up front. I wish to God Jackson, Tinsley, Daniels & Hunter had never had club rio happen. Honestly if it wasn't for that I would tell you right now that the fans would be 100% on board with this team. As it is I think the fans have done, for the most part, a fantastic job of letting the whole Jackson thing go. He is not boo'ed like I would have thought he would have been nor is he criticized for every bad shot he takes outside of the normal groaning fans make when any player takes a bad shot.

But past that I can say that the fans seem to really like this team so far.

The atmosphere last night for a very early season game against a very mediocre opponet was almost electric. Not playoff atmosphere per say but the game seemed more important than it was.

Those $4.00 tix were a really good idea I think.

I have spent the last few years stating that the Brad Miller for Scot Pollard trade (yes this again) was the worst trade in the history of the franchise & while I still believe it was a God awful trade I came to the conclusion last season that Al for Jax was the worst trade. Not from a talent standpoint but from a team glue standpoint.

After seeing Al back now for 6 games I am convinced that I was right. Is Al the black hole? I don't think so, I never did, but I know some of you do & you will never see otherwise & that is fine.

But there is no doubt who is the leader both on & off the court with this team. This is Jermaine's team but Al is his man & by Al leading the team it makes Jermaine that much stronger.

The fans love Al, for the most part. I think, & you'll have to open you imagination with me for a min., a lot of the fans cling to Al because he is the last legacy of those great 90's teams.

He was baby Al to all of us & to some of us he still is & always will be. But he was never fake, what you saw with Al was what you got. He wouldn't back down from anybody & he would always step up & try & help lead.

He got that from the Davis's. He lived with Tony but he trained with Dale, a lot of people don't remember that.

He is passionate on the court & like his game or hate his game nobody really ever questions if he is giving his all.

I think the fans here in Indiana see that & man do they react to him when he calls for the crowd to cheer.

Al does something that is so important but it really can't be documented other than just saying it is there.

************************************************** ****

Uncle Buck you will want to skip this next part.

Don't look, I'm giveing you fair warning.

************************************************** *****

Al has washed the stink of Ron Artest off of this team & he's done it in a mere 6 games.

He is everything that Ron is not. By just being himself & not trying to compete with Jermaine for top dog he has quietly established himself as co-top dog & J.O. has no problem with it at all.

He doesn't bog the offense down by holding onto the ball forever & he is in there every time helping with the boards.

************************************************** ******
Ok U.B. it's safe to come back in the water.

Oh who am I kidding I know you read that so you can now just pick yourself up off of the floor from the seizure you just had.;)
************************************************** ******

But don't let me say that it's all Al because it's not. I think he is a huge piece of the pie but to me, & this is where I think the team is starting to look like something special, this is a big pie once again. MMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..... pie:drooling:

This is the first time since the 00 team where I don't get the feeling that there are individual goals at play here.

Call me stupid or just call me Mary Sunshine:eyebrow: but I honestly get the feeling that these guys want to win & actually like one another & are happy when the other player is doing well.

To me this starts at the top.

I am going to give credit to Jermaine O'Neal. I'll be honest with you I have always thought that he wanted to make sure he got his. If the team wins great but he wanted to make sure he got his points & to be sure he was an all-star.

Now believe me this is all just my opinion but that's just the way I have always felt about him.

But this year I get the feeling that he seems ok with spreading the love, so to speak, & seems like he genuinely wants to make sure the middle is no place that players want to go to without fearing a big block is coming.

None of this works without him. He gets greedy it's all over, he starts resenting others getting more touches it's all over.

But so far we've seen none of that, so it's important to point out when we see good & right now I've seen some real good with this guy.

Don't get me wrong, he still is getting plenty of touches but the offense doesn't always flow through him anymore & so far I haven't seen even a hint of rebellion on his part.

Let's talk about a player who was demoted but has played bigger than he's ever played in his life.

Jeff Foster has been the starter for a couple of years now & was demoted so that a guy who used to be a small forward could start over him. Did he demand a trade? Does he pout? Nope, he comes in & busts his @ss every single night.

He blocked three shots last night, one so bad I had to ask the diamond one if that really was him or did Granger come over & get it. It was Jeff.

I have not changed my mind one bit on one thing. I cannot stand Foster when he is in with O'Neal. But when he is in with Al, Danny or even Harrison I just love to see him play.

Also a little aknowledged fact about Jeff. He is always one of the guys on the bench cheering on the team & always has been.

He still can't shoot, but in this faster up tempo offense we run I think he is a better player because the style suites him.

Darrel Armstrong & Saras have both been the leaders of the bench cheering squad. In fact it's almost a contest between the two of them to see who can get up off the bench the fastest to cheer a good play by someone on the floor.

Also when both of them come onto the floor there is a real enthusiasm that is there & you can tell they want to be there.

Hell even Tinsley has smiled once or twice while he was on the floor.:D

I'm telling you though out of everything I have talked about there is one thing that is more important than anything & that thing is a person by the name of Rick Carlisle.

Look I was ready for Rick to move on, I though the team had grown tired of him & by Birds admission he lost the team last year.

But he has done something that has changed the entire face of our team but it's not what some of you would think.

Rik has opened up the offense & that is no small thing but the single biggest thing he has done is start playing zone defense.

Why is that important? Because not only is it working on the floor but it is doing something that is paying dividends elswhere. The zone defense is causing the players to play a more team oriented style & thus making it a chain & as we all know a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. Right now there is no real weak link in that chain unless Harrison is in there (sadly David has really not only not progressed he is actually regressing but we'll talk about him later).

This is also being done of the offensive side. By taking away the whole isolation one on five mentallity every player on the floor is active on the offensive end & that makes them more active on the defensive end as well & vice a versa.

Everybody is getting a touch & everybody is making a pass (see Jackson as an example as he had 6 dimes last night).

That is why I am oh so glad that the nutball is not here anymore. We are finally once again playing like a team & IMO that sells in Indiana better than anything else ever will.

Ok, that's as close to a Rah-Rah post as I can muster.:sunshine:

I'm sure now that I've come out and said this they will go & stink it up vs. the bulls & I will look like this. :footinmou But what the heck, you gotta go out on a limb every now & then.

So here goes.

I like this team. In fact I really like this team. I don't love it yet but I really like what I've seen so far.

No foot in the mouth so far Peck.

Shack80
11-11-2006, 11:26 PM
I am starting to like this team, they finally have some fire.

Anthem
11-11-2006, 11:27 PM
No foot in the mouth so far Peck.
Don't jinx it.

317Kim
11-12-2006, 12:29 AM
Darn. Jinx?

It's all good though. That was a fantastic post, Peck. :sunshine:

Peck
11-12-2006, 12:41 AM
I don't have time yet to talk about the Chicago game in great detail but I wanted to comment on this thread.

We were beat but I don't feel as though I have a foot in my mouth yet. I didn't like some of the stuff I saw at the end but I really don't feel as though we played a poor game.

I still believe.

Unclebuck
11-12-2006, 12:42 AM
I don't have time yet to talk about the Chicago game in great detail but I wanted to comment on this thread.

We were beat but I don't feel as though I have a foot in my mouth yet. I didn't like some of the stuff I saw at the end but I really don't feel as though we played a poor game.

I still believe.


Don't read the post game thread then.

Peck, I enjoyed your post a lot, and will probably make some comments on it tomorrow.

Big Smooth
11-12-2006, 01:13 AM
Don't read the post game thread then.


Very sage advice.

Not sure what to make of some folks here. Pacers have started pretty well overall.

Naptown_Seth
11-12-2006, 01:29 AM
Don't read the post game thread then.

Peck, I enjoyed your post a lot, and will probably make some comments on it tomorrow.
I actually expected much worse. I expected to see a clear difference in talent and see Chicago control the game the whole way. What we got instead was a game that much like the NO/OKC game they could have and should have won. Both games featured leads in the 4th in fact.

NO/OKC has put up a very strong record to start the season and is starting to look like more than just a schedule fluke. The Bulls were a solid playoff team last year and added Big Ben to the mix, we know that they are legit and were picked to maybe win the East even.

The connection to 93-94 is the underdog vibe I think. Seems like a lot of locals have given up on them and they are no longer the cool team, especially thanks to the Colts. That means that they belong more to the hardcore fans more than they have the last decade.


The loss tonight was aggrevating due to the end, but honestly it was a really solid outing against a major East contender on the road.

JayRedd
11-12-2006, 04:16 PM
Unfortunetly, I didn't follow UB's advice and had already read the game thread before coming over here. Since that thread pretty much made me dumber for having read it (aside from a few posts. Nice work Seth, etc.), this thread is a breath of fresh air and why I keep coming to this forum.

Good stuff, Peck. And I have definetely been noticing some of that "special-ness" going on or whatever it is. The core guys really seem to like each other, and we have so many youngn's/older guys just in it for the victories, that there's a great Three Muskateers dynamic starting to surface.

I agree that this is mostly due to the return of Al.

On all teams, the young players and the role players always admire the most talented players on the team. Maybe not on a personal level, but basketball is different than other sports in that there is generally a very clear and apparent hierarchy of talent on the roster, and everyone on the team knows roughly where they stand on that totem pole. Obviously, some people have delusions of grandeur (Marbury proclaiming himself the best PG in the league, for instance), but even with that, when you're practicing with the same 15 guys and around them all the time it's very clear cut who most talented 2-3 players are on a team and then who are the next 5 best and then who are the "scrubs and stiffs", or at least the guys who---for good reason---won't be seeing many crunchtime minutes.

Why I bring this up is because JO and Al are the two undisputably most talented players on this team without question in the mind of every player who wears a Pacers jersey (yes, even Jack knows this). So they are naturally admired/respected for that reason by a bunch of other guys who wish they were as talented. Meanwhile, JO and Al also seem to be very well liked by the other major pieces of this team (Tinsley and Jack, for sure. Tough to read Danny and Quis' poker faces but they seem to like them too).

And any time you have "good guys" who are popular in the lockerroom as your best two players, that's always a good thing. I think it's fair to say we have that.

But what makes this a potentially "special" scenario is that these two guys also happen to legitimately be best friends.

That's very, very rare.

And this creates an entire culture of camraderie, togetherness and general positivity, where everybody A) respects the talent of the "stars", B) likes the "stars on a personal level, and C) genuinely enjoys being a part of this teams success. Subsequently, that makes this team play better than they should or could otherwise. The cliche' is the links of the chain or the Three Muskateers, but what I think it comes down to is the fact that most people go to farther lengths in the name of helping their friends succeed than they will for personal fulfillment or even money. When blowing an assignment or not boxing out with much effort (probably a bad example after last night, but screw it), means you're truly letting down your friends as opposed to not just doing your job properly, it's a much bigger motivation to do the right thing. To me, it falls under the whole classic line you get from your parents of "I'm not mad...I'm just dissappointed." So, if your lazy defense leads to your team losing and you feeling like a schumck after the game in the lockerroom, that crappy feeling of collectively letting down people you consider true friends is pretty heavy motivation to bust your @ss the next time out.

And I think we're starting to develop a culture like this. If we actually can, all our players become immediately better.

Arcadian
11-13-2006, 01:59 PM
I really do believe that Al and JO's relationship is very simillar to Reggie and Mark Jackson's. The better player wasn't the better leader and needed support in that regard.

I'm excited about the team. I don't know if they are special but they have turned the corner from the last two seasons.

Los Angeles
11-13-2006, 02:10 PM
No more beeyotching and whining and moping and not having any fun. None of it.

That would be the perfect season for me right now, regardless of record.

(Yes my goals keep changing, all summer long I just wanted a "distraction-free season", and we all know how that went.

gummy
11-13-2006, 02:37 PM
Bravo Peck! :applaud:

I read the post game thread and was pretty turned off. I wondered, like some of you, if some people were seeing the same games as I had. I think the answer to that is yes (as in some of the same things are sliding over the eyeballs) and no (as in the things people choose to really see/assign importance to are different based on perspective and expectation).

I'd be a lot happier if the Pacers were 5-2 instead of 4-3. It was a winnable game (Bulls). I spent a fair amount of time shouting at the TV about rebounding. I was upset.

Yet after the game I thought about the things I didn't shout nearly as much about as I have in the past two seasons - the abundance of horrible shot selections, the lack of ball movement, the matador defense, the lack of effort. And it's because those things are improving!

There's an energy to the team that had been woefully lacking even when we were winning in the last several seasons. You can see it on the court and you can see it in the little moments - Tins giving Runi a pat on the head after he misses a shot, the bench getting up and cheering. There are all sorts of new variables - a lot of new guys, a new style of play, and so on. And I am impressed by how cohesive the team seems and how people are getting better at playing their roles. I am pleased with the effort our guys are putting out and I expect they will get better in a number of areas as the new guys settle in and the new style becomes the normal way they play.

We hung with and could have beaten a team - on their home court - that is perceived as a very good to elite member of the Eastern Conference. It doesn't really matter if the Bulls are getting hyped. It's the perception that matters and it will matter to the guys when it comes to taking away something good from this last game (at least it will if Carlisle is as good of a coach on the motivational end as I hope he is).

It's too early to say with sureity that this new attitude is the way it will be all season, but it's a damn shame to get all tied in knots over individual losses and lapses in judgment (in a 48 minute game it happens to just about everyone at least once) and miss the forest for the trees. There are going to be setbacks and bumps on the road. But it looks to me as if they guys are, as a unit, much better prepared to handle them and move on than they were before and I find that very encouraging.

The sky is not falling. I think that, much like the players, we need to have our initial heat of the moment reaction and then calm the hell down. Enjoy the positives and expect more of them.

In other words... :stopit:

timmanis2000
11-13-2006, 06:38 PM
That was a great read Peck.

Naptown_Seth
11-14-2006, 01:00 AM
Jay (and others)...I just don't get this knee-jerk to every game attitude. It's worse at the Star I think, but you see it here too.

I wish I could say it's just kids who don't know better, but I think some of the older fans have gotten jaded and are constantly ready to rip at the first sign of trouble.

There's gonna be at least 30-35 losses this year, maybe more. I hope PD doesn't have a meltdown in every single one of those game threads. I can safely predict that in every game they lose there will be at least 1-2 players that didn't get it done that night and were somewhat to blame for the loss (though you win and lose as a team in theory).

But probably those same players will be factors in just as many games that the team wins too.


Right now the team has a couple of noticable and totally expected flaws - they are undersized often and lose on the boards, and they have a lack of pure shooters and have seen the team shooting really struggling. The new ball is probably impacting that as well, but everyone has to use it so it's not a disadvantage.

But the trade-off was more energy, better chemistry and an attempt to create and score off of more TO's, as well as attacking the rim earlier in the shot clock. They've been doing all of that too.

I'm not sure I want to hear complaints about that style 30 more times this year, at least not angry rants that can't understand why they haven't fired Rick and traded half the team. People said they don't care about wins, they just want the team to show some energy and effort.

Well, there you go, this is what it looks like, including that CHI loss. Maybe I'm not as upset because I'm only expecting around 46-48 wins and definitely didn't expect a win in Chicago.



Quis' poker faces but they seem like them too)
:D Dude has replaced Tinsley as the stone face for sure. Tins isn't even in the running with all the smiling and good vibes coming off of him. Side note, have you noticed how much Tinsley goes out of his way to pull guys up or hand out congrats on a good play? I mean he runs half the length of the court for this stuff, well away from the play at times (like on a long transition pass).

Either he feels great, or he's trying to be better at this stuff. Either way I'm surprised and impressed. Hope he keeps that up, it looks good on him.

Skaut_Ech
11-14-2006, 08:11 AM
To be honest, I haven't given a second thought about the Chicago game. It was an entertaining game, we fought hard, they fought hard and things could have gone either way. I think Chicago is a much better team and to be honest, I was surprised it was as close as it was.

I like to think of myself as pragmatic, rather than pessimistic, and for my money, I'm liking, overall, what I'm seeing from the team. They seems to be a real heartfelt cohesiveness building with the guys and I think that goes a long way. The biggest problems I see is getting used to a new system on boht sides of the court, and make no mistake about it, Carlisles hasn't just tweaked. He's made some real changes.

All we're seeing is some growing pains as guys try to get to the point where running plays is second nature and they get better at reading defenses or offenses of their opponents.

I still think we MUST make a major trade down the road, but given out personnel, I think we're exactly where we should be. No worries.

Alpolloloco
11-14-2006, 10:17 AM
Jay (and others)...I just don't get this knee-jerk to every game attitude. It's worse at the Star I think, but you see it here too.

I wish I could say it's just kids who don't know better, but I think some of the older fans have gotten jaded and are constantly ready to rip at the first sign of trouble.

There's gonna be at least 30-35 losses this year, maybe more. I hope PD doesn't have a meltdown in every single one of those game threads. I can safely predict that in every game they lose there will be at least 1-2 players that didn't get it done that night and were somewhat to blame for the loss (though you win and lose as a team in theory).

But probably those same players will be factors in just as many games that the team wins too.


Right now the team has a couple of noticable and totally expected flaws - they are undersized often and lose on the boards, and they have a lack of pure shooters and have seen the team shooting really struggling. The new ball is probably impacting that as well, but everyone has to use it so it's not a disadvantage.

But the trade-off was more energy, better chemistry and an attempt to create and score off of more TO's, as well as attacking the rim earlier in the shot clock. They've been doing all of that too.

I'm not sure I want to hear complaints about that style 30 more times this year, at least not angry rants that can't understand why they haven't fired Rick and traded half the team. People said they don't care about wins, they just want the team to show some energy and effort.

Well, there you go, this is what it looks like, including that CHI loss. Maybe I'm not as upset because I'm only expecting around 46-48 wins and definitely didn't expect a win in Chicago.

You are right Seth, in the game threads so far there are a few posters like Dat Dude and Ajbry (there are more, but those two are the worst) who go completely overboard with their reactions.

I hope that these posters can behave more normally from now on.

Naptown_Seth
11-15-2006, 03:14 AM
To be fair, I've sat just about every spot in Conseco and MSA, and there are plenty of real losers at both places (not putting anyone at PD in that category, saying those fans are worse than what you see here).

That home blowout loss to Boston 2 years ago (was it game 3?). I'm sitting right behind JO's finance and Gill's wife. Mid-4th its clearing out and some jerk just behind as at the other end of the row is just standing and going completely off on the Pacers. You suck, is this what I paid for...I mean really David Harrison meltdown stuff. Again, easily in earshot of people I know are related to players on the team.

Other people had left if they were disgusted, but here stands this jerk making a real fool of himself, as if the rest of us remaining didn't know it was a bad night for the team. I'm not saying the guy doesn't have the RIGHT to make an @ss of himself, I'm just saying the guy was making an @ss out of himself. ;)


Another anecdote, back at MSA about midway up on one end, I think Rik's 2nd season, the guy in the row behind us is just ripping on Smits for no good reason. Over and over again he's calling him a clown, talking about how he stinks and will never be any good and that he's just a terrible pick.

I always wondered what that tool had to say after that Rik Magic Miracle...I'm betting he was pretty happy with the shot.



Anyway, point is that you get the same knee-jerk stuff at games, but taken to a whole other drunken stupidity level. Some fans flip-flop from play to play.