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View Full Version : Daniels = McKey



Naptown_Seth
11-08-2006, 04:29 PM
I haven't been able to see half the Sixers game yet, but I just wanted to get this thought out there.

Everyone has been so focused on labeling Danny as maybe another McKey, which actually I don't think is accurate, that they may have overlooked the real "catch all, grease for the wheels" player on the team.

Right now Daniels is showing incredible versitility. Other than the 3 point shot which he clearly doesn't have and doesn't like to take, his game is a lot like a slightly smaller McKey. He is the best HELP defender on the team so far, he's reading everyone's players while still staying with his own.

He comes over to tip shots away from behind and start breaks, he helps move the ball up court, he drives the ball into the lane, he is semi-passive with his offense or better said he is not greedy on offense, he seems to be loading up on bits and pieces of everything a player can do within the game.



Granger is versitile as well, but he still reminds me of a more aggressive player like Pippen. And honestly he's not playing as smart as Daniels yet, probably due to experience. But because of that I think the more he gets his feet wet the more DG will push to take over rather than fill in whatever holes need filled like McKey used to do. That's why I see Daniels in that role.

Lots of players have been great. Armstrong hitting 3's is getting the most notice. Sarunas return to scoring form is as well. And either bad or good JO, Al, Tins and Jack are always going to draw lots of attention.

But Daniels, like McKey, is a guy that can be out there making a monster impact and yet do it in a way that after the game is over you don't really think of him like that. It's his effort to close out space when another player starts to get beat, or to make a shot more difficult by stepping over to challenge the ball, or to block someone out so another guy can get the rebound, etc that makes his teammates look better without padding up his numbers or getting him in the highlight reel.

That to me symbolizes exactly what McKey brought to the game every night. And honestly it's something that Croshere never was. It's not a spark of energy or scoring, it's that bland paste that glues it all together and keeps it from falling apart and looking like a mess.

Brilliant trade by TPTB, as I think most of us already agreed upon.

Los Angeles
11-08-2006, 05:02 PM
Thank goodness you didn't compare either of them to Reggie Miller. :D

I need to see each of these players in action at least up to the All-Star break before I cast a comparison vote. But even then, I would prefer that these players by appreciated, understood and critiqued by their own merits and shortcomings.

I hold hopes that both players eclipse McKey. I also hope that they both eventually mean more to the Pacers than McKey ever did. Only time will tell.

imawhat
11-08-2006, 05:52 PM
DW made quite a few references to McKey during the Daniels press conference. I really miss Derrick and his timely plays, but it's great seeing a guy as selfless as Daniels have a big impact on play.

Naptown_Seth
11-09-2006, 06:45 PM
LA, my point isn't to call Daniel's GAME the same as McKey's, but to suggest that they are similar in how they impact the game under the stat radar. They disrupt on defense without necessarily benefitting from a ton of steals or blocks numbers, the help prevent TOs with some handy ball-work when things get out of control, or get the ball moving when things start to stagnate but without getting the assist.

They are the guys that help the guys get blocks, steals, rebounds and assists. They makes sure your bad passes aren't TOs or that you don't give the ball up on a trap.

I'm not using the "intangibles" cliche, I'm talking about plays you can identify specifically. They just aren't kept as stats even though they clearly help at the time.

Cornrows
11-09-2006, 09:00 PM
LA, my point isn't to call Daniel's GAME the same as McKey's, but to suggest that they are similar in how they impact the game under the stat radar. They disrupt on defense without necessarily benefitting from a ton of steals or blocks numbers, the help prevent TOs with some handy ball-work when things get out of control, or get the ball moving when things start to stagnate but without getting the assist.

They are the guys that help the guys get blocks, steals, rebounds and assists. They makes sure your bad passes aren't TOs or that you don't give the ball up on a trap.

I'm not using the "intangibles" cliche, I'm talking about plays you can identify specifically. They just aren't kept as stats even though they clearly help at the time.

In other words, doing the dirty work. McKey was a pretty reliable defender on 3s and 4s, but I agree, he did his work and wasn't a player of the game candidate. I'd like to see 'Quis get a little more assertive on the offensive end, but he's definitely willing find ways to contribute.
http://indycornrows.blogspot.com

Los Angeles
11-09-2006, 09:52 PM
LA, my point isn't to call Daniel's GAME the same as McKey's, but to suggest that they are similar in how they impact the game under the stat radar. They disrupt on defense without necessarily benefitting from a ton of steals or blocks numbers, the help prevent TOs with some handy ball-work when things get out of control, or get the ball moving when things start to stagnate but without getting the assist.

They are the guys that help the guys get blocks, steals, rebounds and assists. They makes sure your bad passes aren't TOs or that you don't give the ball up on a trap.

I'm not using the "intangibles" cliche, I'm talking about plays you can identify specifically. They just aren't kept as stats even though they clearly help at the time.

Yes, I understood it to mean that but I also let the meaning expand to a "macro" point in terms of what kind of careers both Daniels and Granger can have here compared to McKey. I guess my post was a new direction rather than a misunderstanding.

Anywho, I believe the sort of play you're talking about can be and is statistically tracked. Many of these "lesser" stats can be crunched as team stats vs. time player was on the floor. Basically, it's like plus-minus only it involves rebounds, steals, etc. etc, not just points. You can also do player plus player comparisons and ask questions like "what was the team rebounding differential when Harrison and Harrington were on the floor together?" Other stats are individually based but never make it into a broadcast or a box score. "Deflections" is one of the notables there.

On another topic, I'm glad you brought up the cliche "intangibles".

Any more, the whole game of basketball is intangible to me. I'm of a mind that recognizing good play is more art than science. I'd say that I look at the box score maybe a couple of times a week at most, and usually its to confirn a single line or stat. The most common reason for me to go to the box is to see the minutes category.

But most games I don't bother with it at all. It took years to stop my addiction to the box, and it's taken years more to stop the habit of following the ball. Now it's my goal to watch 10 players at once while keeping track of who is who. Things I never understood about the game suddenly pop out. Once a game is over, I feel like I've just seen a performance not unlike a concert. Win or lose, I just know if I saw good play.

In this regard, were McKey playing for the Pacers today, I think I would appreciate him more than I did back in the day.

BruceLeeroy
11-09-2006, 10:14 PM
Good observations Nap. Besides shooting I'm not sure if there's any weakness in this guys game. He can get anywhere on the court with his speed and handles and looks effortless doing so. He also can finish at the rim as good as anyone we've had in a long time.(sorry Freddy)

I'm sure it's been discussed already, but I wonder if we should try him at point? Defensivly it's a no brainer IMO. He gaurded Arenas pretty well in the few posessions he had against him and has the speed and quickness to gaurd other smaller gaurds. What we don't know is how well he could run our new offense, but I think we should at least find out.

:5stars:

imawhat
11-10-2006, 02:09 PM
In this regard, were McKey playing for the Pacers today, I think I would appreciate him more than I did back in the day.


You could watch a classic game, Diddy.

Isaac
11-10-2006, 02:13 PM
I loved Derrick McKey, and I think Quis is like Derrick on the defensive end, but offensively I think Quis is much better. Derrick could not get to the hole like Quis can.

JayRedd
11-10-2006, 02:37 PM
it's taken years more to stop the habit of following the ball.

At least you were able to break it. I'm pretty sure 2/3 of basketball fans have never looked away from the ball for more than 2 seconds at a time. You're missing 75% of the game if all you do is follow the ball.

The ball bounces around and random things happen all the time that people assume to be skill. But there's nothing random about proper spacing, cutting or positioning. May not be as exciting, but that's basketball.

Isaac
11-10-2006, 03:48 PM
I've gotten good at watching the ball, but still being able to keep an eye on everything else that's developing. Sometimes I'll see something that's about to materialize and I'll yell JEFF right before he gets an easy layup, and people who watch the game with me think I've got magical powers. ;)