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RSmits
11-08-2006, 09:32 AM
On Drive Time last night and after the game on Sports Talk, they mentioned the rumor of Harrison to the Bulls for a first round pick. Did anyone else hear this?

Fool
11-08-2006, 09:50 AM
Didn't you guys pick him at the end of the first round 2 years ago? Why would they give up a first rounder for him now and in this draft in particular?

Not to kill your buzz or anything, but I don't think he's shown enough to merit a 1st in return unless he's not the main player in the trade.

Jermaniac
11-08-2006, 10:01 AM
We aint getting no first rounder for him thats for sure

Tom White
11-08-2006, 10:05 AM
On Drive Time last night and after the game on Sports Talk, they mentioned the rumor of Harrison to the Bulls for a first round pick. Did anyone else hear this?

Forgive my ignorance here, but what is "Drive Time"? Is that on 1260? Is the Sports Talk you mention the WIBC show?

Isaac
11-08-2006, 10:19 AM
At the beginning of the year I would have said no way, but he clearly isn't in Rick's plans for this season, so I think I would do it. I still want to see more playing time for him if he's still going to be here. I don't want his potential rotting away on our bench.

!Pacers-Fan!
11-08-2006, 10:26 AM
lol, for a first rounder ? i dont think so...

Jose Slaughter
11-08-2006, 10:32 AM
They traded Elton Brand for Eddy Curry, or was it Chandler?

Anythings possible

FrenchConnection
11-08-2006, 10:42 AM
They traded Elton Brand for Eddy Curry, or was it Chandler?

Anythings possible

Jerry Kraus is not in charge there anymore. The days of raping the Bulls are over. If only Isiah had a first rounder to trade....

Unclebuck
11-08-2006, 10:43 AM
On Drive Time last night and after the game on Sports Talk, they mentioned the rumor of Harrison to the Bulls for a first round pick. Did anyone else hear this?

Please be accurate. Someone called and said that he heard it from his brother.

PacersFan83
11-08-2006, 10:47 AM
Didn't you guys pick him at the end of the first round 2 years ago? Why would they give up a first rounder for him now and in this draft in particular?

Not to kill your buzz or anything, but I don't think he's shown enough to merit a 1st in return unless he's not the main player in the trade.

I disagree. Harrisons shown enough signs of dominance and has put up impressive enough numbers in the minutes hes played to be well worth a first rounder. We're not talking about a 6'6" PF here, were talking about a 7' 275 lb. beast who's nearly unstoppable on the offensive end at times and is a great shot blocker to boot.

Fool
11-08-2006, 10:53 AM
Then why does he play less than all but 2 players on your team?

PacersFan83
11-08-2006, 10:55 AM
Then why does he play less than all but 2 players on your team?

Rick Carlisle is the new Larry Brown. He should be palying 25 mpg after his impressive rookie and fairly impressive sophomore seasons.

grace
11-08-2006, 10:56 AM
I checked the Bulls board on basketball.net and the only rumor they're talking about is TMac.

abington
11-08-2006, 11:00 AM
I disagree. Harrisons shown enough signs of dominance and has put up impressive enough numbers in the minutes hes played to be well worth a first rounder. We're not talking about a 6'6" PF here, were talking about a 7' 275 lb. beast who's nearly unstoppable on the offensive end at times and is a great shot blocker to boot.

Huh? The pacer's david harrison?

Fool
11-08-2006, 11:02 AM
Rick Carlisle is the new Larry Brown. He should be palying 25 mpg after his impressive rookie and fairly impressive sophomore seasons.

A veritable Tayshuan Prince situation I suppose.

ajbry
11-08-2006, 11:06 AM
So, you're comparing David Harrison to Tayshaun Prince, while wishing Foster gets injured?

Son, get off the Harrison thing. He ain't that good, face it.

FlavaDave
11-08-2006, 11:08 AM
Then why does he play less than all but 2 players on your team?


Because the Pacers have too many established big men to spend time developing another one. You could have asked Portland back in the day "If Jermaine O'Neal is so good, why isn't he getting playing time?"

Chicago could use a true big man to waste 6 fouls on Shaq and Big Z. Getting one with some big upside could be valuable. PJ Brown can't play forever.

I don't know if the Bulls would give up a #1 for him, but the pick looks like it would be in the 20's (which is about where Harrison was taken in the first place), so it's possible. I can, however, see the Bulls making some kind of trade with the Pacers for Harrison.

Trader Joe
11-08-2006, 11:12 AM
Our David Harrison worth a first round pick? Especially when the team giving up the first rounder has a shot at Oden? NEVER.

PacersFan83
11-08-2006, 11:12 AM
So, you're comparing David Harrison to Tayshaun Prince, while wishing Foster gets injured?

Son, get off the Harrison thing. He ain't that good, face it.

Hard to be "that good" when you barely play. All I know is more often than not he's basically unstoppable on the offensive end.

If Harrison could just keep his fouls a little more under control, there's no reason he couldnt be everybit as good as Chris Kaman.

PacersFan83
11-08-2006, 11:13 AM
Our David Harrison worth a first round pick? Especially when the team giving up the first rounder has a shot at Oden? NEVER.

Nobody's talking about the Knicks 1st, are they?

ajbry
11-08-2006, 11:14 AM
Hard to be "that good" when you barely play. All I know is more often than not he's basically unstoppable on the offensive end.

If Harrison could just keep his fouls a little more under control, there's no reason he couldnt be everybit as good as Chris Kaman.

Unstoppable? He has no range, his footwork is sloppy, and he still can't stay out of foul trouble. He was a 4-year college player and this is his 3rd year in the NBA. The progression just has not been there. I'd like for him to develop into a nice backup and emergency starter, but you should lessen your expectations of him.

Fool
11-08-2006, 11:20 AM
Because the Pacers have too many established big men to spend time developing another one. You could have asked Portland back in the day "If Jermaine O'Neal is so good, why isn't he getting playing time?"

So he's a future franchise player/MVP candidate and a Pacers team stocked with big men but still looking for a center can't find time to play the 7 foot 275lb beast worthy of a 1st round pick in a draft that's deep in big men?

ajbry
11-08-2006, 11:22 AM
So he's a future franchise player/MVP candidate and a Pacers team stocked with big men but still looking for a center can't find time to play the 7 foot 275lb beast?

You just disproved your point. We need help at center, and yet Harrison still can't crack the regular rotation. That should say it all right there.

PacersFan83
11-08-2006, 11:23 AM
Unstoppable? He has no range, his footwork is sloppy, and he still can't stay out of foul trouble. He was a 4-year college player and this is his 3rd year in the NBA. The progression just has not been there. I'd like for him to develop into a nice backup and emergency starter, but you should lessen your expectations of him.

He's actually shown surprisingly decent range. Besides, Harrison's a true low-post center, and not another one of these 7' wannabe shooting guard.

He was a 3 year college player. he just turned 24 in August, whoopdy doo.

As for him not developing, first of all its pretty hard to develop when you barely to get play, and I can tell you his rebounding improved fairly signifigantly from his rookie to his sophomore seasons.

Fool
11-08-2006, 11:25 AM
You just disproved your point. We need help at center, and yet Harrison still can't crack the regular rotation. That should say it all right there.

Its not my point and yes, that's exactly what I'm doing.

Shade
11-08-2006, 11:32 AM
I'd have to seriously consider that offer. But I don't see it happening.

Fool
11-08-2006, 11:38 AM
Please, if you care to make those kind of statements, post them on RealGM like you usually do.

You are entitled to your opinion of Harrison. I just think its odd if he's so good at a position that the Pacers clearly need, but aren't using him to fill.

FlavaDave
11-08-2006, 11:40 AM
So he's a future franchise player/MVP candidate and a Pacers team stocked with big men but still looking for a center can't find time to play the 7 foot 275lb beast worthy of a 1st round pick in a draft that's deep in big men?


Who says we are looking for a center? If the Pacers want a big man other than JO in the middle, they would be starting Foster. But they are more than happy with the frontcourt of Granger/Harrington/JO. I don't think they are looking for a starting center at all. If anything, the Pacers are looking for the starters of the future in the backcourt.

And we don't view Harrison as a future franchise player, but neither did Portland with JO.

As far as the draft being deep in big men, no one has declared yet. We might have a picture of who is available in the lottery, but nobody has any clue what will be there in the low 20's.

Mamluk
11-08-2006, 11:48 AM
You just disproved your point. We need help at center, and yet Harrison still can't crack the regular rotation. That should say it all right there.

You've missread irony.

Are there any videos of DH somewhere?
{Youtube has 57 results for "Indiana + Harrison", and all of them have Indiana Jones in it:)}

Cheers,
Mamluk

McKeyFan
11-08-2006, 11:49 AM
Please, if you care to make those kind of statements, post them on RealGM like you usually do.

Are you telling him not to post it here (which seems kind of inappropriate to me) or asking him to post it on RealGM as well?

PacersFan83
11-08-2006, 11:51 AM
Please, if you care to make those kind of statements, post them on RealGM like you usually do.

You are entitled to your opinion of Harrison. I just think its odd if he's so good at a position that the Pacers clearly need, but aren't using him to fill.

Let's see....he's playing for a coach who has a hard time playing young players, behind a perenial All-Star (O'Neal) and the guy whos been the starter the past 4 years (Foster). :rolleyes:

FrenchConnection
11-08-2006, 11:53 AM
I cannot believe no one has pointed out the clear reason that this trade cannot occur. Unlike last year, the Bulls don't have the Knicks pick and their own pick this year. Rather, they have the right to swap picks with the Knicks. So if they trade their 1st rounder, they would lose that right because they would no longer have a pick to give back to NY. They would never do that, not in this draft!

RWB
11-08-2006, 11:54 AM
I'm also a little more high on Harrison than probably most on PD. The other big factor is Harrison's LOW salary at this time. Shoot little used Pollard makes more than Harrison and Scot is pretty much used up.

FrenchConnection
11-08-2006, 11:58 AM
Let's see....he's playing for a coach who has a hard time playing young players, behind a perenial All-Star (O'Neal) and the guy whos been the starter the past 4 years (Foster). :rolleyes:

When get gets on the floor, he gets fouls faster than any player that I have ever seen. How is that Rick's fault? If he plays at or around 10 minutes this year, he gets 4 fouls. He would play if he could stay out of foul trouble.

FrenchConnection
11-08-2006, 11:59 AM
I'm also a little more high on Harrison than probably most on PD. The other big factor is Harrison's LOW salary at this time. Shoot little used Pollard makes more than Harrison and Scot is pretty much used up.

Scott's not our problem anymore.

Trader Joe
11-08-2006, 12:04 PM
Nobody's talking about the Knicks 1st, are they?

No but why would you give up your own first rounder for a guy that will be 3rd or 4th on your depth chart possibly? Doesn't make much sense.

RWB
11-08-2006, 12:05 PM
Scott's not our problem anymore.

FC, I didn't say Scott was our problem and aware that he plays for the Cavs. I made a poor attempt in saying Bigs get paid alot more for doing less, thus I used Pollard as an example.

ajbry
11-08-2006, 12:06 PM
Its not my point and yes, that's exactly what I'm doing.

Damn, my bad, lol. Missed the boat on that one.

indygeezer
11-08-2006, 12:08 PM
Did anyone bother to even LOOK at what Buck wrote?

PacersFan83
11-08-2006, 12:10 PM
Sorry folks, but the box scores are all the proof I need.

Bottomline: when David Harrison gets sufficient minutes, more often than not he produces.


http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/1429/0405hm9.gif

http://img275.imageshack.us/img275/4865/0506py7.gif

PacersFan83
11-08-2006, 12:19 PM
No but why would you give up your own first rounder for a guy that will be 3rd or 4th on your depth chart possibly? Doesn't make much sense.
:laugh:

The Bulls front court consists of a 37 year old neverwas, a 32 year old on the brink of being a hasbeen, and a 6'9" rookie who looks like the second coming of Strolmile Swift. I think they could do a lot worse than a 7' 275 lb. center who could be one of the most dominant in the league if he ever cut down on his foul problem.


When get gets on the floor, he gets fouls faster than any player that I have ever seen. How is that Rick's fault? If he plays at or around 10 minutes this year, he gets 4 fouls. He would play if he could stay out of foul trouble.

Thats the only valid excuse. Yet even with that said, there's been times where Harrisons been pulled with only 1-2 fouls, which I completely disagree with.

Anthem
11-08-2006, 12:21 PM
I'm with IndyGeezer. This is a lot of talk over a fake rumor.

Raskolnikov
11-08-2006, 12:23 PM
Isn't it a bit early for a trade?

I also think David should be getting more minutes (20 or so) on a consistent basis. I'm convinced he can become a solid center in the NBA. Just give him a chance to develop...

Trader Joe
11-08-2006, 12:23 PM
:laugh:

The Bulls front court consists of a 37 year old neverwas, a 32 year old on the brink of being a hasbeen, and a 6'9" rookie who looks like the second coming of Strolmile Swift. I think they could do a lot worse than a 7' 275 lb. center who could be one of the most dominant in the league if he ever cut down on his foul problem.



Thats the only valid excuse. Yet even with that said, there's been times where Harrisons been pulled with only 1-2 fouls, which I completely disagree with.

Wow you're a lost cause.

ajbry
11-08-2006, 12:29 PM
Wow you're a lost cause.

Agreed.

Dissing Tyrus Thomas + Heavily praising David Harrison = :laugh:

PacersFan83
11-08-2006, 12:34 PM
Wow you're a lost cause.

I speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

And most importantly, I back every single thing I say up with F A C T S.

By the way...I find your comment incredibly funny coming from the guy with the James White banner. :lol:

here you go, I'll fix it for you....

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8371/flightwihitepsd4pi.jpg
James White is gonna dunk on Eddie Gill in the National Basketball Federation of Russia*

*yes I completely made up that league

PacersFan83
11-08-2006, 12:37 PM
Agreed.

Dissing Tyrus Thomas + Heavily praising David Harrison = :laugh:


What has Tyrus Thomas proved that Harrison? He was a higher draft pick? Whoopdy doo. Using your illogical logic, Stromile Swift is better than Ben Wallace and Brad Miller combined.

RWB
11-08-2006, 12:41 PM
I'm with IndyGeezer. This is a lot of talk over a fake rumor.

Anthem, I agree it's a fake rumor, however this thread kind of morphed into a discussion whether Harrison is worth a number one? Lottery land no, but someone could be willing to offer a first I believe.

On a side note as 83 has pointed out Harrison is a big that at least you could attempt to put on Shaq. What happens when Foster and Al get that assignment as we've seen in the past it won't be JO?

PacersFan83
11-08-2006, 01:18 PM
ROOKIE SEASON
vs Orlando: 44 minutes, 8-15, 19 points, 8 rebounds, 3 blocks
vs Seattle: 29 minutes, 7-9, 16 points, 3 blocks
vs Golden State: 32 minutes, 7-11, 15 points, 7 rebounds, 5 blocks
vs Milwaukee: 28 minutes, 6-7, 13 points, 2 blocks
vs Atlanta: 36 minutes, 5-6, 12 points, 10 rebounds, 4 blocks
vs Toronto: 34 minutes, 10-12, 22 points, 7 rebounds, 2 blocks
vs New Orleans: 19 minutes, 6-8, 15 points, 6 rebounds, 2 blocks


SOPHOMORE SEASON
vs LAL: 25 minutes, 4-7, 10 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks
vs Detroit: 16 minutes, 7-12, 15 points, 4 rebounds <----- shat all over the best defensive frontcourt in the league
vs Portland: 23 minutes, 12 points, 10 rebounds, 3 blocks
vs Milwaukee: 21 minutes, 5-6, 16 points, 6 rebounds, 2 blocks
vs New Jersey: 22 minutes, 5-9, 12 points, 8 rebounds, 2 blocks
vs Washington: 22 minutes, 4-4, 12 points, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks
vs Boston: 15 minutes, 4-5, 10 points
vs Philly: 32 minutes, 5-5, 13 points
vs New York: 21 minutes, 2-4, 7-10 from the line, 11 points, 7 rebounds
vs Houston: 22 minutes, 6-8, 15 points
vs Orlando: 25 minutes, 6-10, 14 points, 7 rebounds
vs Memphis: 26 minutes, 5-6 from the line, 13 points, 11 rebounds, 2 blocks
vs Detroit: 24 minutes, 7-12, 14 points, 5 rebounds, 2 blocks <---- The Wallaces' get shat all over again
vs Phoenix: 22 minutes, 4-7, 11 points, 7 rebounds
vs Toronto: 22 minutes, 4-4, 11 points
vs New Jersey: 10 minutes, 2-3, 10 FTA's, 10 points, 3 rebounds <--- Playoffs


THIS SEASON
vs Charlotte: 10 minutes, 3-3, 7 points

These are glimpses of pure domination, of what Hulk Harrison is capable of when given 20+ minutes. And these are just the games in which Harrison's played enough minutes to have a nice statline. There are many, many, many more games that could be added to this list had he played more minutes. ie, a lot of 4-4, 8 points, 2 blocks, 10 minutes type games. Take a look at his play in Feburary and March of last year. Incredible.

This guy could be a top-5 center if he can ever get his foul problems under control. And I think management realizes that, and that's why they made sure to give him an extension before he explodes and someone signs him to big bucks.

Trader Joe
11-08-2006, 01:55 PM
David Harrison and pure domination in the same sentence who would have thought you'd see the day...


Oh and genius, James White is already on another NBA roster, the Spurs. They have a pretty good history of judging talent.

PacersFan83
11-08-2006, 01:59 PM
David Harrison and pure domination in the same sentence who would have thought you'd see the day...


Oh and genius, James White is already on another NBA roster, the Spurs. They have a pretty good history of judging talent.

I backed up my "pure domination" claims with cold hard facts.

And James White will most likely play in about 30 minutes total this season before heading to either the NBDL or Europe. The guy just doesn't have NBA ability.

Naptown_Seth
11-08-2006, 03:18 PM
Please be accurate. Someone called and said that he heard it from his brother.
That information in no way changes the merit of this discussion.

;)

What is this, the Karl Rove method of sports discussion. Just call into a show with and mention something and half the listeners miss the source and jump only on the content. Three days later your crackpot call has become the current truth.

"Seems like the Bulls are in the market to move a first rounder to bring in another big. Are the Bulls trying to trade for David Harrison? I'm not saying they are, I'm just asking."

Bingo, the trade is on. :D

Dr. Goldfoot
11-08-2006, 03:57 PM
In those games that Harrison dominated the Pacers went 13-10.
He had 4 or more fouls in 15 of those games including fouling out vs Orlando, 4 in 10 vs charlotte,3 in 10 in the playoff game,4 in the 15 vs Boston and 4 in the 19 vs NOH.
He registered 5 or less rebounds in 9 of those games.
He had 5 to vs Orlando.
He shot 602 from the stripe and went to the line 5 times or less in 13 of those games while hitting double digit attempts twice in his career.
I didn't bother to look at the other teams centers while matched up vs Harrison's big minute games.


You're over-rating the guy. In all 23 games you noted, he averaged 13 points and 6 rebounds and those are the good games. He did average a little under two blocks but he also averged a little under four fouls all in 24.3 minutes a game.

With that being said, you can find other players who put up similiar numbers to Harrison. Guys like Robert Swift (www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/swiftro01_2006.html) or Kendrick Perkins (www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/perkike01_2006.html) or to some extent Brendan Haywood (www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywobr01_2006.html) and I wouldn't trade a first round pick for those guys or say they dominate anything except maybe the buffets on a couple of 'em.

FlavaDave
11-08-2006, 04:13 PM
I don't think this particular rumor is true, but I did have some points:

1) It makes sense for Indiana to trade Harrison for either a potential starting guard or a draft pick because his path is blocked.

2) It is reasonable for the Pacers to expect a non-lottery draft pick in return because of the potential of Harrison and the rarity of his size.

3) The Bulls make sense as a team that would have interest in Harrison.


It's also worth noting that Harrison fouled out in under 20 minutes six times last year, and that doesn't take into account the times that Carlisle pulled him out before he had a chance to foul out.

PacersFan83
11-08-2006, 04:50 PM
In those games that Harrison dominated the Pacers went 13-10.
Hardly his fault. One of the main reasons Harrisons gotten minutes in the first place is because so many of our crucial players have been hurt or suspended the past 2 seasons.


He had 4 or more fouls in 15 of those games including fouling out vs Orlando, 4 in 10 vs charlotte,3 in 10 in the playoff game,4 in the 15 vs Boston and 4 in the 19 vs NOH.
As mentioned, fouls have been his biggest issue.


He registered 5 or less rebounds in 9 of those games.
He had 5 to vs Orlando.
He shot 602 from the stripe and went to the line 5 times or less in 13 of those games while hitting double digit attempts twice in his career.
I didn't bother to look at the other teams centers while matched up vs Harrison's big minute games.
Rebounding isnt his strong suite, but as mentioned, it improved fairly significantly from his rookie to sophomore seasons.



You're over-rating the guy. In all 23 games you noted, he averaged 13 points and 6 rebounds and those are the good games. He did average a little under two blocks but he also averaged a little under four fouls all in 24.3 minutes a game.
Those were the majority of games in which Harrison played significant minutes. You cant put up impressive stat lines without being given the opportunity to do so.

I'm quite confident that if given 30 minutes a game, Harrison could put up 13/8/2 right now and with more minutes and more experience, 17/10/3 isn't out of the question.

You also fail to mention what his total field goal percentage was in those games. I'd guss around 70%.


With that being said, you can find other players who put up similiar numbers to Harrison. Guys like Robert Swift (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/swiftro01_2006.html) or Kendrick Perkins (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/perkike01_2006.html) or to some extent Brendan Haywood (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywobr01_2006.html) and I wouldn't trade a first round pick for those guys or say they dominate anything except maybe the buffets on a couple of 'em.
All three our worth a 1st. Swift was a lottery pick 2 seasons ago and has been fairly impressive. Perkins has shown signs of being a great center himself and is well worth atleast a mid-1st, if not lottery. Haywood had some promise once upon a time, and is still worth atleast a late 1st. Still, I wasn't as impressed with any of their game logs as I was with Harrison's.

Mamluk
11-08-2006, 04:50 PM
Bottomline: when David Harrison gets sufficient minutes, more often than not he produces.





OR when he produces, more often than not he gets sufficient minutes.

But really, after that { http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26015 } interview, you have to be his fan. He sounds smart.


Cheers,
Mamluk

3rdStrike
11-08-2006, 05:24 PM
I hope they deal him for a 2nd rounder. If they somehow swindled a 1st I'd be ecstatic.

David Harrison is not a good player. His defense is horrible, his game is sloppy on both ends, he has not shown improvement, and he is and always has been easily frustrated. He'll probably be in your Russian League before White, who by the way is virtually guaranteed to be going to the playoffs this year.

CableKC
11-08-2006, 05:41 PM
For those that have watched Harrison play, which best describes him?

A ) We have only seen flashes of brilliance from Harrison and is only being held back by Carlisle ( whether its the way that he runs his offense or limited minutes )

B ) Over the last 2 seasons, Harrison has peaked and that no amount of playing time will make any differece. What we see of Harrison now ( constant foul trouble but has a somewhat good offensive game for a Center ) is what we will see from him for the rest of his career.

C ) A combination of both (A) and (B), some of it maybe Carlisle's fault ( lack of confidence in him and therefore gives him limited minutes ) and Harrison's fault ( constant foul trouble and not learning from his mistakes ). As a result, he may become a better player...if given minutes....but nothing more then an acceptable Backup Center.

My choice is (C). I think that Big Men take time to develop and given time.....he can get to the point where we can see his talent-level plateau......but we shouldn't expect him to be a Starting Center....but more as an acceptable 2nd option ( at best ) or an solid 3rd option Center. I don't expect him to be a starter......but a solid 3rd option Center that can be used as a huge screen for our Guards to run around.

I have lowered my expectations on Harrison cuz I hope that he has some potential to be better....just not much more potential.

grace
11-08-2006, 06:03 PM
What has Tyrus Thomas proved that Harrison? He was a higher draft pick? Whoopdy doo. Using your illogical logic, Stromile Swift is better than Ben Wallace and Brad Miller combined.

Have you even seen Tyrus play?

Trader Joe
11-08-2006, 09:52 PM
HOW BOUT THAT DAVID HARRISON TONIGHT PACERSFAN83??? MIGHT AS WELL HAND HIM THE STARTING JOB RIGHT NOW.

Dudes a scrub. Its obvious now. He has to have the bball IQ of my left nut.

Just
11-08-2006, 11:59 PM
Jesus, I didn't see the game, but what'd he do so badly? Looking at the box score, it seems like he did alright. I'd chill a bit dude.

Trader Joe
11-09-2006, 02:24 AM
Jesus, I didn't see the game, but what'd he do so badly? Looking at the box score, it seems like he did alright. I'd chill a bit dude.

18 minutes, 3 points, 5 boards. Yeah thats pretty good you're right. :rolleyes:

Dude was claiming when DH gets PT he is automatically a dominant force. Well tonight was a perfect chance with lots of PT with a questionable interior defense and he laid an egg, plain and simple.

RWB
11-09-2006, 06:40 AM
18 minutes, 3 points, 5 boards. Yeah thats pretty good you're right. :rolleyes:

Dude was claiming when DH gets PT he is automatically a dominant force. Well tonight was a perfect chance with lots of PT with a questionable interior defense and he laid an egg, plain and simple.


No doubt Harrison did not look good tonight, but did anyone look good?

PacersFan83
11-09-2006, 06:40 AM
18 minutes, 3 points, 5 boards. Yeah thats pretty good you're right. :rolleyes:

Dude was claiming when DH gets PT he is automatically a dominant force. Well tonight was a perfect chance with lots of PT with a questionable interior defense and he laid an egg, plain and simple.

First of all, in 18 minutes, 5 rebounds is perfectly acceptable and 3 blocks is fantastic.
And as I said in the other thread, he took a whopping 2 shots. He made 1 of them. If ball hogs like Jackson and Jasikevicius (who shot a combined 3-17 :laugh:) would know their role and pass him the ball, the team wouldn't have shot 38% and wouldn't have been utterly humiliated by a middle of the pack team like the Wizards.

Now please go drool over James "NBA caliber? Not Quite" White

RWB
11-09-2006, 07:22 AM
First of all, in 18 minutes, 5 rebounds is perfectly acceptable and 3 blocks is fantastic.


83, like you I have a little more faith or make that hope that Harrison will improve. However, sometimes you can polish a turd and it's still a turd. Many of David's rebounds came in the sloppy 4th. He didn't have a pretty game last night no matter how it is spinned. Once again though everyone looked pretty bad so the verdict is still out for me. I think the guy presses too much when he is out there thinking he's going to be pulled quick. Thus he get's into this scrambling mode thinking he has to cover everybody. Of course it didn't help considering the penetration by the Wiz guards.

Anthem
11-09-2006, 09:30 AM
First of all, in 18 minutes, 5 rebounds is perfectly acceptable and 3 blocks is fantastic.
And as I said in the other thread, he took a whopping 2 shots. He made 1 of them. If ball hogs like Jackson and Jasikevicius (who shot a combined 3-17 :laugh:) would know their role and pass him the ball, the team wouldn't have shot 38% and wouldn't have been utterly humiliated by a middle of the pack team like the Wizards.

Now please go drool over James "NBA caliber? Not Quite" White
You're really hitting this one hard, man. Is there some deep-seated need to bag on Harrison?

Harrison has the capability to be a very good backup center or a decent starter. But he's not going to get there without PT.

Dr. Goldfoot
11-09-2006, 01:45 PM
First of all, it was just one game. A players worth can't be fairly evaluated by just a couple of games but a collection of games. I'm not anymore high or any less high on David Harrison's future. You're lying to yourself when trying to defend his performance against the Wizards though. He got a block on the first possesion and then fell apart. That second foul on Thomas was ridiculous. He tried to take his head off instead of playing NBA defense. He once again proved his immaturity, and with only like 3 and half minutes elapsed. It's not like he and Thomas had been going at it for 35 minutes. I repeat three and half minutes. All of his other stats came at the end of the game in mop up time. If Harrison doesn't right his ship the Pacers may just let him vanish at sea. Based on his performance throughout his career, not just one game, he does this all the time. Emotions and fouls are part of the game. If you can't control them how is that any different than throwing the ball away?

tdubb03
11-09-2006, 04:10 PM
If that trade happened, I'd believe all that trade exception for moving committee votes or whatever that Donnie Walsh pulled off. He'd have to be giving people offers they can't refuse.

Pacersfan46
11-09-2006, 06:37 PM
I reeeeeeally hate to break this to some of you ..... but this draft is not deep at any position. Sorry.

Naptown_Seth
11-10-2006, 01:18 AM
and Jasikevicius (who shot a combined 3-17 ) would know their role and pass him the ball,
Um, yeah, I have to call BS on this one. Cabbages and Hulk have a freaking mind-meld going. SJ typically looks addicated to passing to David. I feel safe in saying that most of SarJas assists last year or this have come with David on the scoring end.

David does it to himself. He struggles for post position often, rebounding position is worse, he is the king of the pointless, silly foul, and then he eventually loses his temper and effectively removes himself from the game.

IF he gets post position and they get the ball to him, then he's extremely tough. Great footwork with the ball in the post, very polished. He's nowhere near that good in getting the position in the first place, which is why the high PnR between he and Cabbages has been the staple of his scoring output.


And Cable, try mixing in an option that doesn't include where you think Rick is a moron who can't coach. Does Rick not use him even though he's good or does he just suck because Rick never developed him? :rolleyes:

How about RC is not deaf, dumb and blind and notices things like his center picking up his 3rd foul, or hulking out on a ref, or getting abused on the defensive end when out of position? He gets him in games and calls his number within the next few possessions all the time.

Get back to me when he doesn't do that in fact. After that David has to impose himself into the flow a little bit. They can't spend 20 seconds of shot clock waiting on him to work himself free below the FT tip ring.

I like David's strengths and his potential, but I have concerns about how much of it he will ever meet. I don't want him gone and I expect him to have plenty of strong games. But the fact is that he appears to be a guy that could have a lot more than plenty; they could be the norm if he'd just figure it out.

RWB
11-10-2006, 07:42 AM
I like David's strengths and his potential, but I have concerns about how much of it he will ever meet. I don't want him gone and I expect him to have plenty of strong games. But the fact is that he appears to be a guy that could have a lot more than plenty; they could be the norm if he'd just figure it out.

That will never happen though Seth. Look if Harrison doesn't look any better with being tutored by Jabbar then forget it. Oh, wait it's that Bynum guy who has a big man coach in Jabbar and starting to really open eyes.

The Pacers think having Harrison work with Chuck and JO (when he is injured) is enough. Of course we know Harrison doesn't want to improve so why try? After all he gained all that weight over the summer because he's too lazy.

Anthem
11-10-2006, 08:12 AM
That will never happen though Seth. Look if Harrison doesn't look any better with being tutored by Jabbar then forget it. Oh, wait it's that Bynum guy who has a big man coach in Jabbar and starting to really open eyes.

The Pacers think having Harrison work with Chuck and JO (when he is injured) is enough. Of course we know Harrison doesn't want to improve so why try? After all he gained all that weight over the summer because he's too lazy.
There's truth there.

Chuck Person is our big man coach. Yikes.

PacersFan83
11-10-2006, 12:26 PM
You're really hitting this one hard, man. Is there some deep-seated need to bag on Harrison?

Harrison has the capability to be a very good backup center or a decent starter. But he's not going to get there without PT.

You're obviously misreading. I've been the one defending Harrison throughout the whole topic.

hoopsforlife
11-11-2006, 04:37 PM
Well it's finally happening. Harrison is going to the Bulls tonight. :)

Naptown_Seth
11-11-2006, 05:03 PM
There's truth there.

Chuck Person is our big man coach. Yikes.
Have you not been near Chuck in person recently? ;)
Dude would drop dead if he had to run with the SG/SFs. :D


My view on this more seriously is that Harrison's FOOT WORK in the post is the best thing about his game, so I don't see the problem there. It's not about being taught I don't think, it's about effort and ability to read ever-changing situations.

Look, you can coach a guy on what to do in a certain situation, but smart players learn the reasons behind those methods and can apply them when the situation changes during the game. They use different methods to reach the same goal, while a player than doesn't understand what they are learning will just try to pound those same methods into a situation where they won't work.

I have my concerns that David is this type of player. When players like Jack and Tinsley are able to more easily get post position than Harrison, I have doubts that's it's just a lack of coaching. He can't adjust when team's deny him post position in unexpected or aggressive ways, or when plays just blow up and need some improvation.

To me David is a VERY good player when everything is laid out in a familiar way for him during the game. If he can get into a comfort spot then he plays very well, but if he's not starting from a familiar situation he struggles to adapt or improvise. And that's not just as simple as being a young player. Some guys have instincts for that stuff and some never do get it.

Naturally it improves the more you play because eventually you do start to see even the odd plays enough for them to look familiar. But experience or coaching don't have an equal impact on all players...athletic ability isn't the only aspect to potential.

David might just end up being a guy that only looks great in certain circumstances tailored to help him find his way. That would mean that he'll never hit starter level ability, even if Jabbar was brought in to coach him.

Jermaniac
11-11-2006, 06:25 PM
I think its safe to say after the preseason and the 6 regular season games we have played, David Harrison is the worst player on this team. I dont think he is just ment to play basketball, the guy has been in the NBA for 3 years and he still cant play a minute with out picking up a foul. The only reason he isnt on the inactive list is because he is 7-0 and 260 pounds.

Believe_in_blue
11-11-2006, 06:31 PM
I think its safe to say after the preseason and the 6 regular season games we have played, David Harrison is the worst player on this team. I dont think he is just ment to play basketball, the guy has been in the NBA for 3 years and he still cant play a minute with out picking up a foul. The only reason he isnt on the inactive list is because he is 7-0 and 260 pounds.


I think thats kind of extreme but I can't disagree with much of what you you said. His size is probably that only good thing he has going, and he isn't smart enough to use that correctly. If he doesn't show any improvment this year then we need to move on.

Pacesetter
11-11-2006, 08:08 PM
On Drive Time last night and after the game on Sports Talk, they mentioned the rumor of Harrison to the Bulls for a first round pick. Did anyone else hear this?


I didn't hear that, but if the Pacers were to put a deal together for David, I sure hope we get the big body Sweetney to do some dirty work in the post. Mike is a truck and isn't afraid to back over somebody, plus he's an awesome guy, very humble & would play well with the others.