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View Full Version : Did anyone else hear what John Salley just said?



Shade
11-07-2006, 11:15 PM
On TBDSSP, they're talking about the new NBA Zero-Tolerance policy and basically bashing it, and discussing Sheed's quote on the whole thing. Salley is adamant that Sheed (who likens the situation to slavery) is right, and says that in the past a player/ref conversation would have likely gone like this:

Player: "That call was questionable."

Referee: "Maybe. I'll make it up to you."

Maybe it's just me, but that quote really disturbs me. Coming from someone who played the game for years, is this basically an admission that make-up calls exist? Now, I know that most of us believe they do anyway, but the league continues to deny it, and now a longtime player is, in a roundabout way, saying it's true.

Am I getting too much out of this quote?

Destined4Greatness
11-07-2006, 11:17 PM
Make Up calls are kinda like area 51, everybody knows they exist. But the people behind them do everything they can wasting there own time and everybody elses.

So basically yes, Make up calls exists, and the very fact that the League denies it so hard is kind of an indication that they realize they exist.

Is it wrong, yes. But when you refuse to get truly competent officials its probably the best system. Competence would be ideal, but the vast majority of refs, can't do their job.

Slick Pinkham
11-07-2006, 11:24 PM
...the vast majority of refs can't do their job.

Too many players will whine and moan about any call whether it is good or bad.

I couldn't diagree with you more.

This is a great rule that should stop the crying over every call. And I don't believe that officiating is any worse than it ever has been. It's probably a little better due to leagues reviewing videos of refs calls.

denyfizle
11-07-2006, 11:25 PM
If you've played organized ball you'll know that it's kind of a Universal truth that make-up calls exist.

Kstat
11-07-2006, 11:27 PM
Back in the 50's, refs were known to fix games altogether for gambling purposes.

Different era, different story.

Destined4Greatness
11-07-2006, 11:28 PM
Too many players will whine and moan about any call whether it is good or bad.

I couldn't diagree with you more.

This is a great rule that should stop the crying over every call.

Um so what does that have to do with whether or not the refs are good or bad. Just because players whine when the Call is good, doesn't mean that overall the refs aren't very good.

Anthem
11-07-2006, 11:33 PM
I agree, nothing new there.

And for the record, I love the new rules. As long as the refs keep it up, players will get the hint. My biggest fear is that 10 games in, refs will stop calling it.

Slick Pinkham
11-07-2006, 11:34 PM
Back in the 50's, refs were known to fix games altogether for gambling purposes.

Different era, different story.

I'm not aware of that happening in the NBA.

Some college refs were involving in 50s game-fixing, but I don't recall anything like that happening in the NBA, though some refs have been shady and faced charges for tax evasion and the like.

Slick Pinkham
11-07-2006, 11:37 PM
Um so what does that have to do with whether or not the refs are good or bad. Just because players whine when the Call is good, doesn't mean that overall the refs aren't very good.

What does anthing Sally says make you feel refs are bad? He's a Pistons homer and will defend Sheed.

If Sheed were on a rival of the Pistons he would think it was a great rule and say he should suck it up

Destined4Greatness
11-07-2006, 11:37 PM
I don't think there are any confirmed accounts of it happening, but I would bet good money it happened, hell I would bet the odds are still decent that it is attempted today by individual refs, doubt they could organize with all the scrutiny they face.

Stryder
11-07-2006, 11:37 PM
I agree, nothing new there.

And for the record, I love the new rules. As long as the refs keep it up, players will get the hint. My biggest fear is that 10 games in, refs will stop calling it.

Yes, as long as the refs are consistent and continue to follow the new "rules", then the players will learn. It is called adaptation.

Anthem
11-07-2006, 11:42 PM
Yes, as long as the refs are consistent and continue to follow the new "rules", then the players will learn. It is called adaptation.
Absolutely agree. It's already happening, and the game is benefitting. I just hope the refs keep it up.

AesopRockOn
11-08-2006, 01:33 AM
Payback calls have existed since referees and have become even more prevalent since fans/homecrowds. I don't know what each of the conversations/confrontations between players and refs entails because I can only see their motions and sometimes read lip. Hopefully, the refs do it to keep the game under control and moving along rather than using an abuse of power i.e. our commisioner.

waterjater
11-08-2006, 02:02 AM
Likely they exist and not really worried about it as long as one team isn't favored over another.

I, personally, love the new rule. Used to just get sick and tired of watching our team and others like that jack *** sheed throwing fits about calls.

Shut up and play! If this rule were in place 3 years ago, the "brawl" doesn't happen.

Water

Kstat
11-08-2006, 02:26 AM
Problem is, Sheed has thrown one "fit" all season, and he has still 4 technicals.

He's getting technicals for saying "and one." It's ridiculous.

It's gone above and beyond zero tolerance. Now it's just payback time.

I wouldn't be defending him if this was his usual ranting and raving, but he's dead on correct this year. They're just making up ways to T him up now.

People just look at the box score and see he got T'd up, and just assume he deserved it. He's actually making an effort to be good now, and he's not being treated fairly under the new rule.

Steveman
11-08-2006, 02:57 AM
Back in the 50's, refs were known to fix games altogether for gambling purposes.

Different era, different story.

Yeah, now it's done for tv ratings :)

Eindar
11-08-2006, 05:16 AM
Problem is, Sheed has thrown one "fit" all season, and he has still 4 technicals.

He's getting technicals for saying "and one." It's ridiculous.

It's gone above and beyond zero tolerance. Now it's just payback time.

I wouldn't be defending him if this was his usual ranting and raving, but he's dead on correct this year. They're just making up ways to T him up now.

People just look at the box score and see he got T'd up, and just assume he deserved it. He's actually making an effort to be good now, and he's not being treated fairly under the new rule.

Can we all agree that Sheed has built up at least 5 years of bad karma? Assuming this is revenge, pure and simple, is anyone but 'Sheed and Pistons fans upset? What, as if vengeful refs are a totally new, shocking, and recent development in the NBA?

I could care less if they T him up every game, even if he grabs a bible and prays between free throws, helps old ladies find their seats during time outs, and leads the fans in singing kumbaiya after the game. He's earned every technical he gets this season about 5 times over.

Here's the problem, though. Rasheed is the biggest former whiner, but he's not the only one, and some others were nearly as bad. Why aren't examples being made of lesser offenders like JO, Marbury, and Vince Carter?

Kstat
11-08-2006, 05:25 AM
If Sheed has built up 5 years of "bad karma", JO has built himself at least two.

If Sheed should get undeserved techs for no reason at all, then JO probably deserves a tech every two games the second he laces up.

Eindar
11-08-2006, 06:31 AM
If Sheed has built up 5 years of "bad karma", JO has built himself at least two.

If Sheed should get undeserved techs for no reason at all, then JO probably deserves a tech every two games the second he laces up.

I believe I agreed with you. But like I asked, if it is indeed revenge as 'sheed would like you to believe, why isn't JO getting nearly the same treatment?

NuffSaid
11-08-2006, 11:33 AM
I don't think the issue w/the "zero tolerence/no arguing w/refs" rule is about players not being able to discuss questionable calls. I think it's about players trying to do as Sheed suggests, "if the players believes the call was bad said player can 'influence' the ref into 'turning the other cheek' on the subsequent call." Players have just spent too much time debating questionable calls/non-calls, etc., and it has taken away from the game.

I'm not saying the refs get it right all the time. Not even going to debate the issue of whether or not refs do, in fact, "turn the other cheek" to makeup a call they missed/got wrong going the other way. I'm sure it does happen and often. The point w/the rule is "how do you get the players to focus on the game of playing basketball and let the refs to their jobs?"

Referring is part of the game. It's an attempt to keep both teams honest in the way they play the game and give both teams a fair chance at winning based on their own merits/skills/talents. That said, we all know players sometimes get away w/stuff because said All-Star is who he is. The issue right now is just to cut down on all the bickering to the refs by the players. Once that's done, the team owners can look at ways to keep the refs honest. One way to do it is to go the Mark Cuban route: "Write a strongly worded letter to the league about ref partiality towards players/teams," and see what happens.

If Stern cares enough about the integrity of the game, he'll do what is necessary to keep the refs in check and not let them go Gestopo on the game as a whole.

Pitons
11-08-2006, 12:04 PM
I don't think the issue w/the "zero tolerence/no arguing w/refs" rule is about players not being able to discuss questionable calls. I think it's about players trying to do as Sheed suggests, "if the players believes the call was bad said player can 'influence' the ref into 'turning the other cheek' on the subsequent call." Players have just spent too much time debating questionable calls/non-calls, etc., and it has taken away from the game.

I'm not saying the refs get it right all the time. Not even going to debate the issue of whether or not refs do, in fact, "turn the other cheek" to makeup a call they missed/got wrong going the other way. I'm sure it does happen and often. The point w/the rule is "how do you get the players to focus on the game of playing basketball and let the refs to their jobs?"

Referring is part of the game. It's an attempt to keep both teams honest in the way they play the game and give both teams a fair chance at winning based on their own merits/skills/talents. That said, we all know players sometimes get away w/stuff because said All-Star is who he is. The issue right now is just to cut down on all the bickering to the refs by the players. Once that's done, the team owners can look at ways to keep the refs honest. One way to do it is to go the Mark Cuban route: "Write a strongly worded letter to the league about ref partiality towards players/teams," and see what happens.

If Stern cares enough about the integrity of the game, he'll do what is necessary to keep the refs in check and not let them go Gestopo on the game as a whole.

Same here.

Shade
11-08-2006, 12:30 PM
Problem is, Sheed has thrown one "fit" all season, and he has still 4 technicals.

He's getting technicals for saying "and one." It's ridiculous.

It's gone above and beyond zero tolerance. Now it's just payback time.

I wouldn't be defending him if this was his usual ranting and raving, but he's dead on correct this year. They're just making up ways to T him up now.

People just look at the box score and see he got T'd up, and just assume he deserved it. He's actually making an effort to be good now, and he's not being treated fairly under the new rule.

Though that may be the case (and I do agree that the refs often feel they're bigger than the game and power trip over it), Sheed has gotten away with a LOT over the past few seasons that he should have been T'd up/tossed for. So, yeah, consider it karma.

My main problem with Sheed's quote is how he compares this situation to slavery. Get over it, Sheed. I'd happily shut my mouth if I were getting millions of dollars for playing a game. Get your priorities straight and stop trying to create controversy where there is none. :rolleyes:

Fool
11-08-2006, 12:32 PM
The slavery thing is ignorance but your "karma" is the same as "superstar calls". If you are fine with karma calls, then that implies you are fine with superstar calls.

Not that you can't be fine with both.

FrenchConnection
11-08-2006, 12:48 PM
The slavery thing is ignorance but your "karma" is the same as "superstar calls". If you are fine with karma calls, then that implies you are fine with superstar calls.

Not that you can't be fine with both.

I agree with you here. Refs are supposed to be objective, and they seldon are. Like when Wade or AI go into the lane out of control not even looking to score, they always get the call. The refs anticipate the contact and blow the whistle, sometimes before any contact has occured.

Roy Munson
11-08-2006, 01:40 PM
He's getting technicals for saying "and one." It's ridiculous.



A player of limited intelligence would quickly learn not to say "and one". We will see if Sheed can rise to the level of limited intelligence.