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View Full Version : That is exactly how Saras needs to be used and other postgame thoughts



Unclebuck
11-04-2006, 11:21 PM
I'm not going to do the player grades , instead I want to touch on a few important points.

I assume you saw the game, but if you didn't, Saras played the whole 4th quarter, and he ran countless pick and rolls, but he wasn't "the point guard". He was on the court with DA and DA would bring the ball up, get the Pacers into the offense, but Saras ran countless pick and rolls either with JO or Al, and it was very effective.

That is exactly what I and others have meant when we've said let Saras run secondary pick and rolls. Marquis also would be excellent in that role


I love Armstrong, his two steals were huge, huge plays - in fact I think the biggest plays of the game. They don't make them like DA anymore. I guess his nickname is Armey - or that is what Slick calls him.


Lets give Rick some credit, the zone was another huge key, the Knicks were in a groove - that was the most important coaching decision tonight.


This was JO's best game of the season, that is what I want to see from him, he controlled the paint and that is what we need.

Granger is still trying to find his way, but he had two huge offensive rebs midway through the 4th.

Anyone else notice DA and Saras played the whole 4th quarter.

Now that was the Al I remember from his days in Atlanta.

Overall the Pacers played with more effort and intensity and that is what they need.

I do need to say, I thought the Knicks were horid tonight. Good to see isiah hasn't improved as a coach. Granted they have a bad mix of players, but they are really poorly coached. They play defense in spurts and if they get beat on the perimeter, they tend to just give up. (Yes that is the help defense that drove me crazy when isiah was the pacers coach.

Let me end with two things.

I have no idea what the Pacers are going to be this year, but I do believe they will be up and down at least until Christmas.

Sorry this postgame report isn't any good.


EDit: also playing a zone helped Saras, because watching him guard Crawford in the first half made my stomach very queesy

ABADays
11-04-2006, 11:36 PM
If this is the way to use Runi - why didn't we do it last year? Who's to blame. I agree with you but is it just that Armstrong sees something in him that our other two guards did not last year or did Rick just blow it?

McKeyFan
11-04-2006, 11:37 PM
I made several posts after last night's game that Runi is the key to the team.

May sound crazy to some, but we really don't have anyone else to create some offense who also has the shooting threat. (I was hoping Quis might also fit the bill, but did you see the air ball tonight?)

Yes, when the coaches make an extra effort to get Runi the ball where he needs it, and allow him to run the pick and roll, good things happen. In the fourth, it was mostly him shooting midrange shots, but had the game gone on longer, they would have adjusted and he would have made some nice passes to JO/Al.

I'm not saying it's Wade and Shaq, but from what I can tell, this Runi pick and roll scheme is about the only offensive weapon we have other than pass it inside to JO and watch the fadeaway.

McKeyFan
11-04-2006, 11:38 PM
If this is the way to use Runi - why didn't we do it last year? Who's to blame. I agree with you but is it just that Armstrong sees something in him that our other two guards did not last year or did Rick just blow it?

Rick blew it.

Bird's quote: "Rick and I disagree on Saras."

Unclebuck
11-04-2006, 11:41 PM
Rick blew it.

Bird's quote: "Rick and I disagree on Saras."

Wait a minute though. You can't just throw Saras out there as the only point guard on the floor or the defensive pressure will devour Saras and the Pacers offense. Tonight I don't think Saras ever was "the point guard" on the floor tonight. He either had DA or Tinsley with him

McKeyFan
11-04-2006, 11:43 PM
I don't see Rick as this great tower of strength who in uninfluencable by the players. I could name any number of anecdotes to support that statement.

That being said, I think AJ was a big influence on Rick, and knowing how AJ felt about Saras may have had a big effect on Rick.

Anybody remember that point in the season where AJ, who was riding the bench, said he had a talk with Rick and convinced him where he should be playing instead of Saras?

Add to that the rumblings by Fred and the Stephen (Don't pass it to Runi) Jackson, and you can see where a growing sentiment affected Rick's decisions.

Again: Rick blew it.

pizza guy
11-04-2006, 11:44 PM
I'm not going to do the player grades , instead I want to touch on a few important points.

I assume you saw the game, but if you didn't, Saras played the whole 4th quarter, and he ran countless pick and rolls, but he wasn't "the point guard". He was on the court with DA and DA would bring the ball up, get the Pacers into the offense, but Saras ran countless pick and rolls either with JO or Al, and it was very effective.

That is exactly what I and others have meant when we've said let Saras run secondary pick and rolls. Marquis also would be excellent in that role


I love Armstrong, his two steals were huge, huge plays - in fact I think the biggest plays of the game. They don't make them like DA anymore. I guess his nickname is Armey - or that is what Slick calls him.


Lets give Rick some credit, the zone was another huge key, the Knicks were in a groove - that was the most important coaching decision tonight.


This was JO's best game of the season, that is what I want to see from him, he controlled the paint and that is what we need.

Granger is still trying to find his way, but he had two huge offensive rebs midway through the 4th.

Anyone else notice DA and Saras played the whole 4th quarter.

Now that was the Al I remember from his days in Atlanta.

Overall the Pacers played with more effort and intensity and that is what they need.

I do need to say, I thought the Knicks were horid tonight. Good to see isiah hasn't improved as a coach. Granted they have a bad mix of players, but they are really poorly coached. They play defense in spurts and if they get beat on the perimeter, they tend to just give up. (Yes that is the help defense that drove me crazy when isiah was the pacers coach.

Let me end with two things.

I have no idea what the Pacers are going to be this year, but I do believe they will be up and down at least until Christmas.

Sorry this postgame report isn't any good.


EDit: also playing a zone helped Saras, because watching him guard Crawford in the first half made my stomach very queesy

:amen:

100% agree with every word.

Runi looked great playing with Armstrong who looked great. JO and Al found their rhythm this game. Tinsley's play was outstanding tonight--AND HE SAT THE FOURTH!! Not to say I have a problem with that, but instead that I was very pleased because of the Runi/Red Bull combo.

Great, great game tonight. If we play like this (minus the mini-callapse late-3rd) we'll be a pretty good team, IMO. At least fun to watch again.

McKeyFan
11-04-2006, 11:45 PM
Wait a minute though. You can't just throw Saras out there as the only point guard on the floor or the defensive pressure will devour Saras and the Pacers offense. Tonight I don't think Saras ever was "the point guard" on the floor tonight. He either had DA or Tinsley with him

Not sure what that has to do with my quote.

But, anyway, I think you answered your own question at the top of the thread. The coaches need to think of creative ways to use Saras. This is the way to use him. They didn't work hard enough at it last year. Thus, "Rick blew it."

Trader Joe
11-04-2006, 11:49 PM
I'll post my recap in here too and the game thread.

Good win tonight this is how we want to play every night IMO. Here comes my recap. No bad tonight, just ok, good, and great. Only thing to really complain about was the free throw disparity. I highly doubt we went an entire half without drawing a shooting foul, but I digress.

THE OK:

Granger is again not playing how we need him to just yet, but that being said I am glad Rick is not tinkering with the lineup let them play and work through their problems. It will come to Danny eventually just like last year though he will need some time to adjust to being a starter.

Jack had his worst game of the season tonight, but he still avoided the yacking with the refs and he drew a few charges so as long as the hustle is there I am a happy camper.

Quis had his worst game tonight too, just never really looked in the flow on either end, but thats ok because he is new and you would expect him to still be on a bit of a learning curve.

Foster has been less than impressive to me the past two games, but I still don't think he is hurting us and I don't expect him to. That being said I can't say he is helping us either just yet.

Harrison was blah to meh yet again. Nothing to really get excited about.

THE GOOD:

JO belongs here cause I said I was going to be less and less forgiving to his problems on the boards. His offense is still very efficient and his shot blocking and defense the past two games has been nothing short of spectacular, BUT he has to start crashing the board he has too.

THE GREAT:

Tins, Runi, and DA were AWESOME tonight. And we thought our PG rotation was going to be a weak spot, silly us. Plus we have our supposed defensive stopper in Greene coming back in a week or two. Lets start with Tins what a game from him tonight ran the offense to an absolute T, no problems at all. 14 assists and only 2 turnovers plus he was extremely efficient in his scoring. I was thrilled with him and this is why I will maintain that he is a top 5 PG when healthy. DA was basically DA tonight just great, his shooting has been spectacular for us. Not to mention how good he is on the pressure D front. Runi was very good in the 4th mediocre up until that point but really got in a groove. He is absolutely unstoppable when he can go to his right and get that midrange J in the lane.

Our chemistry tonight was just plain awesome Kellog and Denari touched on it and anyone that watched the game can attest to the fact that our bench was up and cheering the whole 4th quarter. That made me so happy I can't even explain. I haven't seen a bench that happy since the late 90's teams. Even the 60 win team never looked that happy together. Oh BTW I think its safe to say that AJ was a problem child. We committed highway robbery in that trade with Dallas one of the best moves Bird and Walsh have collaborated. Fantastic typical Walsh move, doesn't look like much at first, but has a huge impact on the team.

Well, I think that just about covers it, oh wait, am I forgetting someone? Oh yeah thats right Al had a pretty nice little game, that is if a pretty nice little game is dominating offensively from tip to finish. What a game from him. Fantastic effort and he scored from inside and out. Tins got him involved early in both halves and Al took it from there. Really happy to see him get off the snide.

Great win tonight. I'm happy, now lets go get the first W at home and beat the snot out of Philly.

GO PACERS!!!

pizza guy
11-04-2006, 11:52 PM
I think has to fall on Rick, ultimately. There were times when Sarunas played with Tins very well, and I think that many of us on here agree that it was some of Runi's best basketball. However, Tinsley was injured so much that AJ became the starter and someone has to back him up.

Also, with Jack and Freddie playing the 2, Sarunas didn't have the opportunity. A lot of the off-season moves really benefitted Sarunas, whether by design or not. 'Quis, DA for AJ, letting Freddie walk. All very big contributors to Sarunas' success thus far.

Jermaniac
11-04-2006, 11:55 PM
13 assists from the starting PG tonight. Shot 4 of 5. Go Starting PG.

Unclebuck
11-05-2006, 12:00 AM
. The coaches need to think of creative ways to use Saras. This is the way to use him. They didn't work hard enough at it last year. Thus, "Rick blew it."


Many of us said the same thing over the summer, but we also questioned whether Saras was worth it, whether getting him to be effective would help the team and be worth the trouble. And I don't think we have enough evidence to answer that question

Kegboy
11-05-2006, 12:02 AM
I don't see Rick as this great tower of strength who in uninfluencable by the players. I could name any number of anecdotes to support that statement.

That being said, I think AJ was a big influence on Rick, and knowing how AJ felt about Saras may have had a big effect on Rick.

Anybody remember that point in the season where AJ, who was riding the bench, said he had a talk with Rick and convinced him where he should be playing instead of Saras?

Add to that the rumblings by Fred and the Stephen (Don't pass it to Runi) Jackson, and you can see where a growing sentiment affected Rick's decisions.

Again: Rick blew it.

Do you seriously belive this? You know my "Freddie and AJ on the plane" post yesterday was a joke, right?

If Rick lets players influence him to that extent, then the locker room would be anarchy. Last year's Knicks kind of anarchy.

The truth is, Rick looks at Cabbage and sees a 2, if for no other reason than he subscribes to UB's theory that the PG is the most important defensive player on the floor. Cabbage obviously bristled at that last year, but somehow they got on the same page this offseason.

Kegboy
11-05-2006, 12:03 AM
13 assists from the starting PG tonight. Shot 4 of 5. Go Starting PG.

:laugh:

QFT

Anthem
11-05-2006, 12:04 AM
But, anyway, I think you answered your own question at the top of the thread. The coaches need to think of creative ways to use Saras. This is the way to use him. They didn't work hard enough at it last year. Thus, "Rick blew it."
Not sure that's fair. Rick tried to pair Runi with a PG last year, but Sarunas pouted about it.

I don't think the difference is Carlisle, I think the difference is that Runi may have grown up some over the summer. Marriage can do that.

pizza guy
11-05-2006, 12:06 AM
Many of us said the same thing over the summer, but we also questioned whether Saras was worth it, whether getting him to be effective would help the team and be worth the trouble. And I don't think we have enough evidence to answer that question

True, this was the third game. And it was the Knicks. But if his "effectiveness" wasn't worth it tonight, he'll never be good enough. He and DA won this game in the 4th. Al got us on top, and JO kept us there with his D. But it was DA and Runi that won the fourth quarter.

Jermaniac
11-05-2006, 12:06 AM
Sorry 14 assits from our STARTING PG. Yes starting.

DG4mvp
11-05-2006, 12:09 AM
I made several posts after last night's game that Runi is the key to the team.



I would love to agree with this. However, w/o the help of JT, DA and MD, he still cannot bring up the ball and defend speedy guard. And I am a big supporter of Runi.

hoopsforlife
11-05-2006, 12:10 AM
Sorry 14 assits from our STARTING PG. Yes starting.

Yes, and that is what his did in the fourth quarter.

grace
11-05-2006, 12:10 AM
It's the Knicks for Pete's sake. :rolleyes:

Unclebuck
11-05-2006, 12:14 AM
It's the Knicks for Pete's sake. :rolleyes:

I thought the Knicks were really bad tonight. Pacers should have had a 15-20 point lead at halftime.

I wonder where Rimfire is

pizza guy
11-05-2006, 12:16 AM
Yeah, the Knicks are bad.

That should be added to the list of positives! Considering we couldn't beat the bad teams last year, it's a great improvment!

NorCal_Pacerfan
11-05-2006, 12:23 AM
Sounds like a great game. Wish I could have seen it. You lucky devils.

Go Pacers!

Los Angeles
11-05-2006, 12:48 AM
Yeah, the Knicks are bad.

That should be added to the list of positives! Considering we couldn't beat the bad teams last year, it's a great improvment!

:ding:





Sorry for the single-smilie response, but I can't help myself.

We're 2-1 against 3 bad to mediocre teams. That's a step in the right direction.

IA_Pacerfan
11-05-2006, 12:50 AM
Yes the Knicks are not a great team, but they have something to prove. Teams even great ones, let alone around average ones don't always win by as much as they should.

On to a more important note, the Pacers don't win without DA and Saras in the forth, nor do they without Al and Tinsley tonight. I don't understand why people like to overstate or unstate player's performances based on their own personal bias. It's not ever going to be one persons performance that is going to win them games this year or at least not often.


Sorry if this is not a good way to do one of my few posts, just frustrated how people can't be happy with a win or giving everyone their do that played well.

Los Angeles
11-05-2006, 12:58 AM
Who was it that kept saying last year that Rick would never ever ever ever ever use a zone defense?

You know who you are. Fess up.

Jermaniac
11-05-2006, 01:06 AM
Rick said himself that he only used zone once last year

Miller4ever
11-05-2006, 01:09 AM
Thats what i was talking about in the game thread. I think carlisle should play more with 2 point guards in the court. DA and tinsley filling the PG spot and sarunas and daniels filling de SG spot, and move jackson to SF. I think that should work great

Pacesetter
11-05-2006, 03:33 AM
Maybe they're finally listening to UB? Cool!!!!!!

Trader Joe
11-05-2006, 03:41 AM
Maybe they're finally listening to UB? Cool!!!!!!

We'll know for sure if they make Foster the captain and play him 48 minutes a game. ;) :-p

Israfan
11-05-2006, 04:17 AM
I'm sorry, this is exactly what I and other people who knew Saras play were saying all the year long! The coach needs to adjust the team to him, otherwise he will be useless (see second half of last year). He shouldn't bring the ball-up and should be "hidden" in defence. Its so clear for us because this was the way his liabilities were softened in Europe.

On this we've been called CPK's, were told that its NBA and not Euro-no-defence-ball, no coach in NBA will adjust his team to back-up etc.

Now, after year some of you got it. Well, I'll agree with McKeyFan: IN LAST YEAR, RICK BLEW IT WITH SARAS.

I guess it is the human nature to repeat other's mistakes untill it strokes you between the eyes.

PacersFan83
11-05-2006, 04:20 AM
Al Harrington - A
Yes! Finally Big Baby Al breaks out. And in a big way. 14-24 for 32 points. The guys game has risen every year e's been in the league, and I still wouldn't be surprised to see him making a strong case for the All-Star team this year. I think, outside of defense obviously, Big Al is superior to Ron Artest in every way, shape, and form and provides 5000% less drama.

Jamaal Tinsley - A
This is the Jamaal we should be seeing every night. Showed off his Hall of Fame worthy passing tonight, and was efficient from the field (4-6). He was all over the court tonight, as evidenced by his two blocked shots.

Darrell Armstrong - A
Another fantastic game for Darrell Armstrong. Is it wrong of me to say, pound for pound, he's been our best player thus far? Hard to believe this guy is 38. The way he's playing makes me say "A.J. who?"

Sarunas Jasikevicius - A-
Sarunas is looking like the most bi-polar player in the entire league. He goes from great to horrible to great in three games. Still, in two of our three games he's giving us the deadyl shooting touch we sorely need. Only got a minus added because Steve Francis looked like the All-Star Stevie Franchise of days gone by while he was in the game.

Jermaine O'Neal - B
He's still blocking shots like a madman and is hitting more shots than he misses, something he's been criticized for throughout his Pacers career. Those are the plus'. The big minus is his rebounding still blows. He's up to 17 in three games this season. Carlos Boozer got that in 3 quarters the other night.

Danny Granger - C
Sadly, this was probably Grangers best game of the season thus far. Only 6 points, but he was 50% from the floor (3-6). He played his usual solid defense, and his rebounding was pretty good. Still, he only played 26 minutes due to extreme foul trouble, which certainly limited his production. I know how we can fix it - let's make him our #1 scoring option! :laugh:

Jeff Foster - C-
This was tough to grade. On one hand, he only played 12 minutes, but in those 12 minutes he was fantastic, grabbing 6 boards and hitting both of his shots. Still, he also picked up a whopping 5 fouls in that time, which more than nullifies his positive impact.

Marquis Daniels - D+
The first stinker for Quis. He just wasn't hitting anything. He was even temporarily possessed by Stephen Jackson as he went 0-2 from downtown. He'll bounce back.

David Harrison - D
Only played 6 minutes, with nothing positive coming out of it. A missed shot, a missed free throw, a turnover, and 2 fouls. So much potential going down the drain because he can't stop committing fouls.

Stephen Jackson - D
Your typical poor Stephen Jackson game. Lots of shots, lots of missed shots, and very few (actually zero) free throw attempts. This guy needs to hit the bricks.

denyfizle
11-05-2006, 04:49 AM
Darrell's positive attitude is what Runi needed all along. Although Runi had a lot of supporters when he came here, it was pretty obvious that he had more than a few "haters" and doubters among his fellow players, pacer fans and media alike. Yea, he has his weaknesses but since he's came here that's been pretty much all his haters have been harping about and it showed in his game that he was indeed affected by it. Here's a guy who was a leader and a basketball Icon worshiped and respected before he came in to Indiana and all of a sudden blasted after every little mistake- not saying it was wrong he was scrutinized like that- but he really struggled with it. I know it's their job and all that, but ANYBODY who has to move to a totally new country, environment, league style, people etc. will need time to adjust and it doesn't help if there's a lot of unwelcoming negativity that surround you. Seriously, imagine being the toast of the town in indy then all of sudden moving to Mongolia, I don't care what good cred you got, you will have a hard time gaining the same respect or being who you were.

Now with DA you can see the passion and ethusiasm back in Runi's eyes and body language. This is the Runi a lot of us saw in the Euroleague and came to admire. DA's positivity has rubbed in on the team and most especially Sarunas. He was always that great player inside that Larry Bird brought in here for, but people are people. Emotions affect a lot of people more than they would like and admit. Just like how Diaw was revitalized in Phoenix by playing with Nasty i guess.

Man, gotta give it up to DW and Larry Bird. Bringing in DA and Quis was just what our team needed. I'm not crowning this team prematurely, but with what I've seen so far- even in the loss- these 2 moves + bringing back Al ofcourse has made Indiana Pacers basketball fun to watch again.

Seed
11-05-2006, 05:06 AM
Sarunas Jasikevicius - A-
Sarunas is looking like the most bi-polar player in the entire league. He goes from great to horrible to great in three games. Still, in two of our three games he's giving us the deadyl shooting touch we sorely need. Only got a minus added because Steve Francis looked like the All-Star Stevie Franchise of days gone by while he was in the game.


Maybe this year, the words of those who watched Saras for years will be taken less lightly.

My 2 cents about Saras are:
1. He is a good shooter, but sadly, he is not very consistent. If Indy are totally denended on his long range shot, we are heading for ups and downs. Mind you, in Maccabi, Saras wasn't THE 3pts shooter. a guy named Derick Sharp was. Let's all hope DA will continue to help here.

2. If Indy needs Sarunas to make the long jumpers, he needs some help that will allow him to get to his shooting spots. There are several spots from which he will almost always hit. I can elaborate.

3. Sarunas's greatest qualities are: amazing decision making and guts in clutch time, and a deadly pick-and-roll. Not the outside shooting or the passing ability. If these are exploited he could be an amazing weapon.

4. If anyone ever tries zone against us, Saras can tear it apart with outside shots & pick-and-rolls.

5. I think when Tins does his thing (14 AST, go Tins!!), Runi does his thing and DA does his thing, we have an amazing PG (and half SG) rotation. They just need to be diciplined (by Rick) to stick with what they are good at.

Kegboy
11-05-2006, 10:24 AM
Who was it that kept saying last year that Rick would never ever ever ever ever use a zone defense?

You know who you are. Fess up.

I've repeatedly said that Rick wouldn't use it as more than a gimmick.



Don't expect the Pacers to play zone defense on a regular basis. Carlisle, who hasn't utilized much zone in the past, said they'll use it in certain situations.

"It's a tempo changer," he said. "None of us believe in it as a steady diet; that goes for our coaches and our players. We know that in a short burst it can help change the tempo of the game."

Anthem
11-05-2006, 10:26 AM
Now, after year some of you got it. Well, I'll agree with McKeyFan: IN LAST YEAR, RICK BLEW IT WITH SARAS.
No, he didn't. Saras blew it. He wanted to be the "point guard" and to him that meant always having the ball in his hands. Rick tried using him this way, but he pouted about it.

Over the summer, he got an attitude re-adjustment. That's a good thing, but it's not something Rick can fix on his own.

Seed
11-05-2006, 10:34 AM
No, he didn't. Saras blew it. He wanted to be the "point guard" and to him that meant always having the ball in his hands. Rick tried using him this way, but he pouted about it.

Over the summer, he got an attitude re-adjustment. That's a good thing, but it's not something Rick can fix on his own.
It might be a combination of the 2...

Judging from Tins quote from the other thread, it looks like this whole team has made an attitude re-adjustment.

I just hope it sticks.

Anthem
11-05-2006, 10:39 AM
Judging from Tins quote from the other thread, it looks like this whole team has made an attitude re-adjustment.
Fair enough.

Last year I got called a liar and a basher by Sarunas' fans because I said he couldn't bring the ball up against pressure. Now that his own fans are saying it, I wonder if I'll get an apology.

Israfan
11-05-2006, 12:44 PM
Fair enough.

Last year I got called a liar and a basher by Sarunas' fans because I said he couldn't bring the ball up against pressure. Now that his own fans are saying it, I wonder if I'll get an apology.

It wasn't me, but in any case that is true. He has and always had (even in Israeli league) trouble to bring the ball up against pressure.

Arcadian
11-05-2006, 12:49 PM
Is Saras and Armstrong a combo that we can play against most teams? The Knicks don't really have a tradition backcourt.

rexnom
11-05-2006, 01:27 PM
Is Saras and Armstrong a combo that we can play against most teams? The Knicks don't really have a tradition backcourt.
How about forcing other teams to adjust to us?

Arcadian
11-05-2006, 01:45 PM
How about forcing other teams to adjust to us?

OK. Then make the question, "How hard will it be for most teams to adjust to Armstrong and Saras?"

Los Angeles
11-05-2006, 01:45 PM
I've repeatedly said that Rick wouldn't use it as more than a gimmick.

I'm just going let this stand on its own.

Rick Carlisle has proven that he's capable of change.

The only one I'm worried about now is JO.

DeS
11-05-2006, 01:47 PM
Is Saras and Armstrong a combo that we can play against most teams? The Knicks don't really have a tradition backcourt.
I think Rick really like to play this way. And, I guess, at least he will try to play this way against other teams, too.

rexnom
11-05-2006, 01:56 PM
OK. Then make the question, "How hard will it be for most teams to adjust to Armstrong and Saras?" That remains to be seen, I guess. Your point is a valid one. I'm just wondering how long we can keep this up. Armey will probably wear down. Saras wore down last year and Tins, is well, Tins. Right now, I will stay positive and say that it will be very hard for any backcourt in the league to adjust to us if we're playing like we did last night. How often will we play like last night? Not that often.

avoidingtheclowns
11-05-2006, 01:58 PM
its only been three games so i think declarations of SARUNAS THE GREAT should be put on hold. i have been impressed in games 1 & 3.

i really don't think rick blew it. i think it was a combination of many things:

1) european players typically need a full year before they truly adjust to the game [the same would be said for NBA players heading overseas]. different ball, different style of play, different game philosophy. sarunas had plenty of bad moments and good moments last year.

2) JT was injured or wasn't playing for most of the season. sarunas isn't a natural NBA point guard. the combo AJ/SJ didn't work well last season either but maybe with time it would have gelled, who knows?

3) Pacer expectations... I think players and certainly fans, had images of our new Reggie Miller, clutch three point shooter. I think that pressure may have had an impact on him just as much as the adjustment to the NBA. you know, it has to be ridiculously frustrating for a guy like that, who was so great in europe to be struggling so much. look at A-Rod this year.

despite my advocating he be traded for a draft pick (to keep Rawle... because I really didn't think we'd cut White after spending so much to get him) i said he would improve this year, simply because he had a year under his belt. i think he has, maybe darrell armstrong has also aided this transition. i don't think we can say anything definitively yet. the hornets are the only potential playoff team we've faced thus far.

i the Washington game will be revealing for the Pacers (a high-octane offense and a nearly nonexistant defense) to see if the Pacers can keep up with such intense scoring. but November 11 is really going to show us what this team is capable of. i don't think its necessary to win but how well we play against the bulls will be an indication of what this season may be like.

anyway, to sum up, i believe sarunas has played well so far. i believe DA was the attitude adjustment and energizer this team needed (really last year i would describe us as a sleepy team... especially when peja arrived... like i feel jones and austin had energy, i just don't think they were capable of truly energizing everyone else like DA). and maybe his guidance and influence will really help sarunas this year.

owl
11-05-2006, 02:25 PM
What I found most impressive last night was the effort and the team play.
That is how this team will be successful. What a joy to watch the
players encouraging each other.

JO is starting to figure put that the Pacers need his shot blocking and
defense to make this team really go. Scoring is good but the team has plenty
of scorers. JO's rebounding still needs to improve.

I was pleased with Jackson's game last night that despite a poor
shooting night he found other ways to contribute. Taking 2 charges was
fantastic and no *****ing at the refs.


owl

imawhat
11-05-2006, 02:34 PM
Rick used zone plenty of times last year, but he didn't use it enough. I'm so glad they switched to zone last night, and I wish they would've tried it on Friday when NO/OKC got hot.


The Pacers have a major issue right now that needs to be addressed: the fast break. They are getting a TON of chances to make easy scores, but our guys don't know how to space, run lanes, or make passes in transition. I really, really wish they'd work on that because it would make our team so much better.

Los Angeles
11-05-2006, 02:39 PM
Rick used zone plenty of times last year, but he didn't use it enough. I'm so glad they switched to zone last night, and I wish they would've tried it on Friday when NO/OKC got hot.


The Pacers have a major issue right now that needs to be addressed: the fast break. They are getting a TON of chances to make easy scores, but our guys don't know how to space, run lanes, or make passes in transition. I really, really wish they'd work on that because it would make our team so much better.

What's a fast break? I've been following the Pacers for so long I've completely forgotten. ;)

MagicRat
11-05-2006, 05:02 PM
14 assists from the starting PG tonight. Shot 4 of 6. Go Starting PG.

http://chaos.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/sarasjtshirt2.jpg

AesopRockOn
11-05-2006, 05:03 PM
3) Pacer expectations... I think players and certainly fans, had images of our new Reggie Miller, clutch three point shooter.

:laugh:


IOW, I didn't.

rexnom
11-05-2006, 05:03 PM
Priceless.

bulldog
11-05-2006, 05:05 PM
Joining the conversation late, but here's my take:

1) It's the Knicks. Calm down. But...

2) It does show what a number of us have been saying all along, that Saras is a good player with specific strengths and weaknesses that, when utilized properly, make him an effective NBA player. More importantly...

3) This is a positive development from a team chemistry perspective. I don't think that last season, with all of the second-guessing going on between the players and coaches, guys were willing to play to their strengths. It seemed like a lot of guys were out just to get theirs. Hopefully, that's behind us, and if guys are allowed to play their roles and buy into the team concept, we'll be a much better team than I anticipated.

pizza guy
11-05-2006, 05:34 PM
Joining the conversation late, but here's my take:

1) It's the Knicks. Calm down. But...

2) It does show what a number of us have been saying all along, that Saras is a good player with specific strengths and weaknesses that, when utilized properly, make him an effective NBA player. More importantly...

3) This is a positive development from a team chemistry perspective. I don't think that last season, with all of the second-guessing going on between the players and coaches, guys were willing to play to their strengths. It seemed like a lot of guys were out just to get theirs. Hopefully, that's behind us, and if guys are allowed to play their roles and buy into the team concept, we'll be a much better team than I anticipated.

This has been the best aspect of the young season for me. Seeing guys run around to give high-fives, help each other off the court, standing and cheering from the bench, etc. is really encouraging. The team chemistry is 100 times better this year. Even if we're no better record-wise than last year (though I think we will be) it'll be fun to watch the Pacers again--something that hasn't happened for a couple years.

Anthem
11-05-2006, 05:35 PM
http://chaos.able-towers.com/%7Emagicrat/sarasjtshirt2.jpg
I'm not worthy.

Jermaniac
11-05-2006, 05:37 PM
That cant be real

Anthem
11-05-2006, 07:05 PM
That cant be real
It's not. Look who posted it.

owl
11-05-2006, 08:17 PM
The Pacers have a major issue right now that needs to be addressed: the fast break. They are getting a TON of chances to make easy scores, but our guys don't know how to space, run lanes, or make passes in transition. I really, really wish they'd work on that because it would make our team so much better.


A great observation. On the fastbreak it seems all the players run down the middle third of the floor instead of running down either side. Plus everyone
stops under the basket when they should run through and curl to the
corner to make room for a delayed fastbreak from another player.
The fastbreak definitely needs work but at least they are trying.

ALF68
11-05-2006, 08:23 PM
I don't see Rick as this great tower of strength who in uninfluencable by the players. I could name any number of anecdotes to support that statement.

That being said, I think AJ was a big influence on Rick, and knowing how AJ felt about Saras may have had a big effect on Rick.

Anybody remember that point in the season where AJ, who was riding the bench, said he had a talk with Rick and convinced him where he should be playing instead of Saras?

Add to that the rumblings by Fred and the Stephen (Don't pass it to Runi) Jackson, and you can see where a growing sentiment affected Rick's decisions.

Again: Rick blew it.


EXACTLY!

Isaac
11-06-2006, 02:42 AM
Quis had his worst game tonight too, just never really looked in the flow on either end, but thats ok because he is new and you would expect him to still be on a bit of a learning curve.

It didn't show up in the stat sheet, and he wasn't great on the offensive end, but he was all over the place on defense. He didn't get credited for a couple steals that he actually caused, and he really played well defensively I thought.

Lord Helmet
11-06-2006, 02:46 AM
I got mad love for all of our PG's.

:cool:

Kestas
11-06-2006, 12:24 PM
1. He is a good shooter, but sadly, he is not very consistent. If Indy are totally denended on his long range shot, we are heading for ups and downs. Mind you, in Maccabi, Saras wasn't THE 3pts shooter. a guy named Derick Sharp was. Let's all hope DA will continue to help here.

3. Sarunas's greatest qualities are: amazing decision making and guts in clutch time, and a deadly pick-and-roll. Not the outside shooting or the passing ability. If these are exploited he could be an amazing weapon.


1. I agree. if Saras will be used as SG (again), he will not be productive enough. he may produce from time to time, but that'll hardly be the help he's capable to provide.

3. Saras' greatest strength is playmaking and that includes passing. he's the best paser I have ever seen in my entire life. ok, the best European passer at least.. and he is a deadly outside shooter, but playmaking comes first, imho. if he's playmaking in a suitable system he will score at will when the team needs it. that is, when other's cant score.. but as soon as you put shooting first and playmaking - second, Saras will dissapoint, I'm afraid. I would like to believe it ain't so, but there's hardly any evidence to prove that. so I believe that Saras will start to stink again if he is played as a shooter with another main PG on court (knock wood mirracle happens and he adjusts). unless that another PG is used to bring the ball upcourt and then give it to Saras.. but it would be too much to ask and still would not be as effective (?)..

anyways, the Pacers start looking pretty good. let's hope they stay out of controversies for the rest of the season. I wish this team would achieve something..

Anthem
11-06-2006, 12:30 PM
1. I agree. if Saras will be used as SG (again), he will not be productive enough. he may produce from time to time, but that'll hardly be the help he's capable to provide.

3. Saras' greatest strength is playmaking and that includes passing. he's the best paser I have ever seen in my entire life. ok, the best European passer at least.. and he is a deadly outside shooter, but playmaking comes first, imho. if he's playmaking in a suitable system he will score at will when the team needs it. that is, when other's cant score.. but as soon as you put shooting first and playmaking - second, Saras will dissapoint, I'm afraid. I would like to believe it ain't so, but there's hardly any evidence to prove that. so I believe that Saras will start to stink again if he is played as a shooter with another main PG on court (knock wood mirracle happens and he adjusts). unless that another PG is used to bring the ball upcourt and then give it to Saras.. but it would be too much to ask and still would not be as effective (?)..
You've obviously not been around for the discussion over the past week.

Sarunas has been MUCH more effective with another PG on the floor than he ever was by himself. He's simply not able to advance the ball or deal with the on-the-ball defense of an average NBA defender. Playing double-PG sets with Tinsley or Armstrong, though, has allowed him to flourish. The only time he's shown the ability to play the 1 by himself has been when Marquis Daniels advances the ball for him.

In that role, he's been excellent. Everything we were hoping for in a backup guard. When he's tried to be more than that, he's floundered.