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Anthem
11-04-2006, 08:45 PM
Holy cow, I'm annoyed.

I finally broke down. I didn't really have the money, but I decided that the day had come. I was going to get League Pass and get every Pacer game. I was ready.

So I call up Time Warner Cable, my Cincinnati cable provider, to order League Pass, only to discover that the Indiana Pacers are blacked out.

Is this for real? As far as I can tell, I can't get FSI (I assume that's Fox Sports Indiana) and I can't get League Pass. I can't watch any games except for National broadcasts.

Can this be right?

Eindar
11-04-2006, 08:53 PM
Holy cow, I'm annoyed.

I finally broke down. I didn't really have the money, but I decided that the day had come. I was going to get League Pass and get every Pacer game. I was ready.

So I call up Time Warner Cable, my Cincinnati cable provider, to order League Pass, only to discover that the Indiana Pacers are blacked out.

Is this for real? As far as I can tell, I can't get FSI (I assume that's Fox Sports Indiana) and I can't get League Pass. I can't watch any games except for National broadcasts.

Can this be right?

I don't see how it could be. The way it's supposed to work is they black out your local team (the team that's on TV in your town). So, any game that's blacked out on league pass should be shown somewhere else. I'd definitely get on the horn with a rep and give them an earful until it's fixed.

ABADays
11-04-2006, 08:55 PM
I always thought blackouts were restricted to a 60-mile radius. Did you move Cincinnati closer to Indy or something?

Anthem
11-04-2006, 08:57 PM
I always thought blackouts were restricted to a 60-mile radius. Did you move Cincinnati closer to Indy or something?
I'm guessing it's a 100-mile radius. That's all I can figure.

Lord Helmet
11-04-2006, 09:14 PM
Wow. They could be right, too. The radius. Man, that's lame.

Anthem
11-04-2006, 09:21 PM
Wow. They could be right, too. The radius. Man, that's lame.
So is there a solution? Or am I just screwed?

Los Angeles
11-04-2006, 10:37 PM
I don't think that this is right at all. I just refuse to believe it. :whoknows:

At the very least, you can now download all the games online.

Jermaniac
11-04-2006, 10:39 PM
What about this broadband thing they have now? Cant you order it and watch the games on your comp?

Unclebuck
11-04-2006, 10:50 PM
If I am reading this correctly, maybe Cincinnati is within the Pacers over-the-air territory.

I know when I lived in Fort Wayne, the Pacers games on Fox Sports midwest were blacked out but what I did was I ordered all the local sports channels. But I don't think you can do that with digital cable.

I would first try to find out if Cincy is within the Pacers over the air territory. If they are, then I don't think you have any alternative, except to change to directv

This is from DirecTV's website

http://directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=1000009

Blackout Rules for NBA Games

Blackout restrictions apply to all NBA games that are offered on NBA LEAGUE PASS. Such blackout restrictions are designed to protect the television rightsholders in the competing teams' respective home markets. Blackouts are not based on arena sellouts.

Local Broadcasts
If a local over-the-air network has the rights to broadcast an NBA game in its local area, customers in that area will be unable to receive that game via their satellite service. However, they may be able to see the game via their local channels.

Example of How Blackouts Work
The Lakers are playing the Rockets and both teams are broadcasting the game locally — KCAL-9 in the Los Angeles area and FSN SOUTHWEST in the Houston area. NBA LEAGUE PASS scribers living in the Los Angeles area will be blacked out within the Lakers' over-the-air territory. To see the game, they must be able to receive KCAL. Subscribers living outside of the KCAL coverage area will receive the game via NBA LEAGUE PASS unless they live in the Houston area. Subscribers in the Houston area will be blacked out of the game in NBA LEAGUE PASS, but subscribers can view the game on their over-the-air television station or their local regional sports network (RSN) — included with TOTAL CHOICE programming and Local Channels.

Roaming Gnome
11-04-2006, 10:58 PM
In the days when I had league pass, I learned that blackouts territories are determined by zip code. If (and this is a big IF) you can get a rep that understands how the blackouts work, they will be able to tell you if you are in a protected area or be able to give you the real reason for your black out of the game. Unfortunatly, your more then likely you will get a rep that doesn't know his head from his *** and he/she will read you line #18 off the script and be totally of no help.

Lord Helmet
11-04-2006, 11:00 PM
So is there a solution? Or am I just screwed?
Maybe if you found another cable company that's out of the radius but where you can still get service from....obviously not an easy thing to do.

Anthem
11-04-2006, 11:01 PM
If I am reading this correctly, maybe Cincinnati is within the Pacers over-the-air territory.

I know when I lived in Fort Wayne, the Pacers games on Fox Sports midwest were blacked out but what I did was I ordered all the local sports channels. But I don't think you can do that with digital cable.
I asked the rep this afternoon, and he said he didn't think it was possible. I'll try again Monday, but this is some serious craziness.

Is BitTorrent really my only alternative?

Big Smooth
11-04-2006, 11:19 PM
If I am reading this correctly, maybe Cincinnati is within the Pacers over-the-air territory.

I know when I lived in Fort Wayne, the Pacers games on Fox Sports midwest were blacked out but what I did was I ordered all the local sports channels. But I don't think you can do that with digital cable.


I live in Fort Wayne and have seen Pacers games on League Pass for the last 3-4 seasons. League Pass will black you out but FSN Midwest doesn't, at least not since I've been watching. In fact, even without League Pass I've always been able to see the Pacers games on FSN Midwest thanks to Sportspack (since the default FSN channel in Fort Wayne is FSN Chicago now known as Comcast Sportsnet).

So....if you have League Pass AND Sportspack (which gives you access to ALL the FSN stations) then a person in Fort Wayne can see every game with no blackouts.

Not sure how this situation applies to Anthem's situation but I agree with others that I honestly can't see that being possible.

NorCal_Pacerfan
11-04-2006, 11:28 PM
What about Direct TV or something?

grace
11-04-2006, 11:33 PM
What about Direct TV or something?

It's still League Pass. I watched the game but I get FSI.

SycamoreKen
11-05-2006, 12:04 AM
Here is some info. I found. There is info. for other leagues as well at the link, so i only posted the NBA related stuff below.

http://dtv.fxep.com/Blackouts.html

The most commonly asked RSN questions are usually about blackouts. In the world of sports broadcasting, situations arise when FOX Sports Net is not permitted to broadcast games in certain parts of the country. These blackouts are designed to protect the rights to certain games purchased by programmers other than FOX Sports Net.

Blackouts on the Regional Sports Networks are not based on arena sellouts. They are in place to protect the various broadcast rights holders for each game. Each league, NBA, NHL and MLB, determine it's team territories differently. Consequently, and NBA team and a MLB team from the same market will have drastically different local blackouts areas. This can be a confusing subject at times, this section explains the different scenarios in the simplest form.




NBA - Blackout #1
Regional Coverage Blackout: Subscribers may only watch their home team on their home Regional Sports Network.


Example: Subscribers residing in Denver, CO, receive home team coverage of the Denver Nuggets, which appears on FOX Sports Rocky Mountain. If the Denver Nuggets games were on any other RSN, those subscribers would not be able to receive that game.



NBA - Blackout #2
Over-the-Air-Blackout: NBA game is being carried locally by an Over-the-Air station. (Refer to OTA Blackout zip codes.)

Situation: The RSN must blackout a radius of 75 miles from the stadium on the non-RSN team to protect the rights of the local over-the-air station.
Example: FOX Sports Detroit is carrying Detroit Pistons vs. Dallas Mavericks game. In Dallas the local over-the-air station, KDFI, is also broadcasting the game. A 75-mile radius around the Dallas Mavericks arena is blacked out. Anyone living inside this radius has to watch the game on the local station KDFI.
Comments: As long as a customer has an over-the-air antenna in that 75-mile radius, they should be able to pick up that game on the local over-the-air station.



NBA - Blackout #3
National Rights Holders - TNT/TBS/NBC have national rights to the NBA. Games will be available through Regional Sports Networks (RSN) to the local territory only.


Example: FOX Sports Detroit and TNT are broadcasting the same Detroit Pistons game. FOX Sports Detroit has primary coverage in the Detroit Pistons territory. TNT has national rights (all areas outside the Detroit Pistons territory) and the game would not be available on any regional sports network.

Anthem
11-05-2006, 12:58 AM
Situation: The RSN must blackout a radius of 75 miles from the stadium on the non-RSN team to protect the rights of the local over-the-air station.
Example: FOX Sports Detroit is carrying Detroit Pistons vs. Dallas Mavericks game. In Dallas the local over-the-air station, KDFI, is also broadcasting the game. A 75-mile radius around the Dallas Mavericks arena is blacked out. Anyone living inside this radius has to watch the game on the local station KDFI.
Comments: As long as a customer has an over-the-air antenna in that 75-mile radius, they should be able to pick up that game on the local over-the-air station.
This is weird, because I'm pretty sure Cincinnati is more than 75 miles away from Indianapolis.

I really don't understand.

Unclebuck
11-05-2006, 08:37 AM
This is weird, because I'm pretty sure Cincinnati is more than 75 miles away from Indianapolis.

I really don't understand.

That part is talking about " local over-the-air station". That is different from Fox sports Indiana - which is the regional sports network. So I don't think the 75 mile radius rule applies to FSN-IN

Anthem
11-05-2006, 09:29 AM
That part is talking about " local over-the-air station". That is different from Fox sports Indiana - which is the regional sports network. So I don't think the 75 mile radius rule applies to FSN-IN
Well I certainly don't get the Pacer's "over the air" broadcasts.

I guess I need to call them up tomorrow and ask for a manager.

Bball
11-05-2006, 10:42 AM
Well I certainly don't get the Pacer's "over the air" broadcasts.

I guess I need to call them up tomorrow and ask for a manager.


WTTV4 isn't carried on cable in Cincy is it? I'm just wondering if your problems might be a holdover from last year when WTTV4 showed several Pacer games? I'm doubting that... (I don't think WTTV's signal reaches that far and I can't imagine it being on Cincy cable) but it wouldn't surprise me, along that vein, to see this have something to do with the FSMW and spinoff FSI. Maybe you get FSMW and so the computer thinks the game is on FSMW so they black out Fox Sports Indiana?

....Or it's somehow related to that bit of silliness with FSMW/FSI which are really kinda the same channel...excpet when they are not...

No Pacer games (unless national) are being broadcast over the air this season. Fox sports got the rights to the package, so don't let OTA blackout be the reason they give you. That would be a holdover from last season and no longer applicable.

Edit: Are you sure you're really blacked out? Maybe the system is right but the reps are wrong.


-Bball

gilpdawg
11-05-2006, 11:45 AM
I'm not blacked out in New Paris, but Cleveland is considered my "local" team. They are blacked out on mine. You may be screwed, since I don't think the Cincy feed of FSOhio picks up the Cavs games, they may consider the Pacers more "local" than the Cavs, although the games aren't on. Screwed up.

Los Angeles
11-05-2006, 01:00 PM
What a nightmare.

I'm so sorry about this Anthem. Hope you get it straightened out.

Unclebuck
11-05-2006, 01:02 PM
Well I certainly don't get the Pacer's "over the air" broadcasts.

I guess I need to call them up tomorrow and ask for a manager.


Pacers don't have any over the air games on in Indy either

rabid
11-05-2006, 01:21 PM
Anthem,

Call the Pacers' front office and tell them your story. Seriously. I'm willing to bet that they might have someone in-house who talks to the cable companies and can give you some answers (and if the cable company is screwing up and not showing games, the Pacers will want to know about that anyway).

EDIT: Another option would be to call the FSN office or the actual NBA League Pass network (if you can find their contact info) and ask them if they're supposed to be blacked out in your area.

Anthem
11-05-2006, 04:45 PM
Ok, I'm going to attempt to make direct contact with four companies:

Time Warner Cable: (513) 469-1112
Pacers Sports and Entertainment:
Fox Sports:
NBA League Pass:

I'm searching the web right now for contact info. If you have an appropriate contact number, please send it to me.

Anthem
11-06-2006, 10:54 AM
Awesome.

I called PS&E and asked for the Director of Broadcast Engineering. That got me to the right person, and he was frustrated because he said Cincinnati should not be blacked out. He took my name and number and said he'd get to the bottom of it and call me back.

That's a step in the right direction, at least. When I talked to TWC today, the rep said I shouldn't even waste my time talking to a supervisor, since they have no power to change what content gets broadcast. We'll see if something happens. Regardless, I was pretty impressed with the PS&E guy. I called at 9:30 on a Monday morning and dropped a pile of crap on his desk, and went after it.

---------------

If anybody from PS&E is reading this, please give an attaboy to your Director of Broadcast Engineering. The problem's not fixed yet, but I feel hopeful.

Unclebuck
11-06-2006, 02:28 PM
Awesome.

I called PS&E and asked for the Director of Broadcast Engineering. That got me to the right person, and he was frustrated because he said Cincinnati should not be blacked out. He took my name and number and said he'd get to the bottom of it and call me back.

That's a step in the right direction, at least. When I talked to TWC today, the rep said I shouldn't even waste my time talking to a supervisor, since they have no power to change what content gets broadcast. We'll see if something happens. Regardless, I was pretty impressed with the PS&E guy. I called at 9:30 on a Monday morning and dropped a pile of crap on his desk, and went after it.

---------------

If anybody from PS&E is reading this, please give an attaboy to your Director of Broadcast Engineering. The problem's not fixed yet, but I feel hopeful.



That is great to hear.

naptownmenace
11-06-2006, 04:42 PM
This is weird, because I'm pretty sure Cincinnati is more than 75 miles away from Indianapolis.

I really don't understand.

Anthem, this is definitely not true. I'm in Cincy and you can order LP on Dish, Directv and Time Warner.

You probably have to have digital cable with Time Warner. Why would you want Time Warner anyway? Time Warner sux.

If you want to switch to dish, I can hook you up. The 100 hour DVR is well worth the switch.

NuffSaid
11-06-2006, 05:18 PM
Holy cow, I'm annoyed.

I finally broke down. I didn't really have the money, but I decided that the day had come. I was going to get League Pass and get every Pacer game. I was ready.

So I call up Time Warner Cable, my Cincinnati cable provider, to order League Pass, only to discover that the Indiana Pacers are blacked out.

Is this for real? As far as I can tell, I can't get FSI (I assume that's Fox Sports Indiana) and I can't get League Pass. I can't watch any games except for National broadcasts.

Can this be right?

I don't see how it could be. The way it's supposed to work is they black out your local team (the team that's on TV in your town). So, any game that's blacked out on league pass should be shown somewhere else. I'd definitely get on the horn with a rep and give them an earful until it's fixed.

I'm guessing it's a 100-mile radius. That's all I can figure.
These are the types of questions I've been struggling with lately. I shut my cable down...the bill just kept getting higher and higher. I looked into satelite TV and while I still haven't decided which to choose from - DirectTV or DishNetwork - I still think I can get a much better value w/satelite over cable.

I don't think my viewing choices would be as restricted as yours because I don't live anywhere near Indy proper. So, I shouldn't be held to the same blackout restrictions, but therein lies my problem. Nobody has given me a clear answer on this issue.

For example:

If I lived in LA or the surrounding area and wanted to watch the Lakers game but it was broadcast on a local channel, I couldn't get it on NBA-LP nor FSW. But if I lived in San Diego, I probably couldn catch the game on FSW because San Diego is part of their regional viewing area and as such, I probably couldn't catch the game on NBA-LP. (Mind you I'm not 100% sure of the viewing situation in San Diego, but having lived their for a brief time unless they've changed their broadcasting over the years, it's highly unlikely Laker games are aired locally there which would mean the only way to see them would be via cable/satelite TV.)

But suppose you're not a Lakers fan. Let's say you were a Heat or Knicks fan but you still lived out West. No DishNetwork or DirectTV rep. has answered this question to my satisfaction yet:

"If I live outside a regional area could I pick what regional action I wanted to subscribe to or would I have to subscribe to a premium sports package, i.e., NBA-LP? And if so, would I be subject to the same blackout restrictions to games televised locally as an NBA-LP subscriber even though I don't live in the local or reginal area?"

Anthem
11-06-2006, 07:24 PM
Anthem, this is definitely not true. I'm in Cincy and you can order LP on Dish, Directv and Time Warner.
Sorry I wasn't clear. I can order league pass through Time Warner Cable (I already have digital), but they black out all of the Pacer games.


You probably have to have digital cable with Time Warner. Why would you want Time Warner anyway? Time Warner sux.
Because I don't get broadband with dish. And I don't have a phone line.


The 100 hour DVR is well worth the switch.
:D Trust me, my PVR is better.

Anthem
11-06-2006, 07:44 PM
But suppose you're not a Lakers fan. Let's say you were a Heat or Knicks fan but you still lived out West. No DishNetwork or DirectTV rep. has answered this question to my satisfaction yet:

"If I live outside a regional area could I pick what regional action I wanted to subscribe to or would I have to subscribe to a premium sports package, i.e., NBA-LP? And if so, would I be subject to the same blackout restrictions to games televised locally as an NBA-LP subscriber even though I don't live in the local or reginal area?"
I'm positive somebody here can answer that for you.

Naptown_Seth
11-07-2006, 01:36 AM
NuffSaid - Any regional package (outside your region) is overruled by a League Subscription, so the short answer is no. If you buy the Fox Sports package you can see the general shows but the minute the NHL, NFL, NBA, etc game comes on you lose it. And even with a League Pass you will still be directed to the most applicable broadcast for your market, ie the local one.

It's easy to understand when you consider the "why" behind the process. Broadcasters PAY for the rights so they can sell ad time at a price based on viewership.

So if WISH had a Pacers game they wouldn't want you (in Indy) watching the Fox Sports NY coverage and ads instead. They wouldn't be getting what they paid for, which is the rights to you, the viewer.

This is the only reason blackouts exist...well, if you also include the local arenas rights to force you to buy tickets to the local game (ie, the NFL blackout rule). Leagues have different rules on that and the NBA and MLB sell their TV rights regardless of tickets sales (at least on a game to game basis).


So in Anthem's case the NBA is claiming that there is another path to viewing the Pacers game that League Pass violates. They want him to watch that broadcast instead of whichever version he is trying to view. The answer for him would appear to get someone to either admit that he has no other viewing option IN THE MARKET (ie, you can't just say "but I don't subcribe to the premium package" because the response is "but you could") or to get them to tell him how to get the package they do want him to view it on.


Seems like their must be a misunderstanding about how the Pacers games are carried in Cincy...or just maybe the radius means that a local is supposed to pick it up but refused to pay for it, which passes the suffering on to him. You can't force your local channel to pay for game rights, but if its within the home city radius that's the only way to see the games.

In Indy you used to miss a lot more games before Fox Sports came along, and even then there were still seasons where maybe 10+ games weren't on TV. And that's within 15 years, maybe even 10 (can't recall exactly).


Anyway, could be that Anthem needs to yell at Fox Cincy or some other local for not paying for the rights to Pacers games.

Anthem
11-07-2006, 09:09 AM
Anyway, could be that Anthem needs to yell at Fox Cincy or some other local for not paying for the rights to Pacers games.
There is no Fox Cincy, but there is a Fox Sports Ohio. It's in an exclusive contract with the Cavs, though.

I think the problems had to do with the Fox Sports Midwest re-org. Like it used to be blacked out, but isn't anymore. Unfortunately, nobody noticed the change except me.

Jim R
11-07-2006, 09:43 AM
Anthem,

My experience with NBA League Pass has been through Direct TV, and it's been great. I never had a Pacers' game carried which was aired by someone that I couldn't get. I live in Indy.

It was either on FSMW, WTTV-4, national TV, or carried by another Fox Sports channel and viewed directly through the League Pass. The LONE exception that I could think of, and I don't recall when it happened last, is if the Pacers opted not to televise a home game on either FSMW or WTTV-4. Even if the other team carried it, it was blacked out.

Living where you do, the only televised games I can't see you getting are ones aired on WTTV-4, and that is ONLY if you are deemed in the Pacers home market. I think that amounts to 10 games this year.

What you posted originally doesn't make sense. I can't imagine those situations changing with cable. I think you just ran into a guy who didn't know what they are talking about.

Look at it like this, where I live in Indy, I get FS-Cincy, and while I'm considered part of Cincy's home market, I get all their games televised, never blocked out for me. They don't televise every single game, but it's close.

Jim R
11-07-2006, 09:44 AM
There is no Fox Cincy, but there is a Fox Sports Ohio. It's in an exclusive contract with the Cavs, though.

I think the problems had to do with the Fox Sports Midwest re-org. Like it used to be blacked out, but isn't anymore. Unfortunately, nobody noticed the change except me.

Anthem, there is a Fox Sports Cincinnati. On Direct TV it's channel 638. There is also Fox Sports Ohio. It's 636.

Anthem
11-07-2006, 10:07 AM
Anthem, there is a Fox Sports Cincinnati. On Direct TV it's channel 638. There is also Fox Sports Ohio. It's 636.
Hmm, you're right. But Fox Sports Cincinnati doesn't appear to carry Pacer games. When you watch Fox Sports Cincinnati, do you get Pacer games?

naptownmenace
11-07-2006, 01:47 PM
Sorry I wasn't clear. I can order league pass through Time Warner Cable (I already have digital), but they black out all of the Pacer games.

That's why I say TW sux when it comes to customer service. They don't blackout Pacers games - or at least they didn't when I had TW Cable 2 years ago. I had the games and NBATV with no problem. Their customer service reps don't know anything about the NBA or any of their sports packages.

Have you been able to watch the first 3 Pacers games on the free preview? They haven't been blacked out have they (sorry if you mentioned this earlier and I just missed it).


Because I don't get broadband with dish. And I don't have a phone line.

If it wasn't for RoadRunner they'd be a totally useless company. :laugh:


:D Trust me, my PVR is better.

PVR, DVR... it's basically the same thing ain't it? Mine let's me record 100 hours and I can record two shows at the same time. When I had TW I only had 35 hours and I could only record one show at a time. Maybe they've improved since?

Either way, I'm almost 100% positive Pacers games won't be blacked out here in Cincy. Cincy doesn't even have an NBA market and we're over 300 miles away from Cleveland. That doesn't make any sense.

Anthem
11-07-2006, 02:09 PM
PVR, DVR... it's basically the same thing ain't it? Mine let's me record 100 hours and I can record two shows at the same time. When I had TW I only had 35 hours and I could only record one show at a time. Maybe they've improved since?
Yeah, it's the same thing. But I've got one I built myself, and I like it.


That's why I say TW sux when it comes to customer service. They don't blackout Pacers games - or at least they didn't when I had TW Cable 2 years ago.
All I know is what they told me. When I went to order League Pass, they said all Pacer games were blacked out.

Unclebuck
11-07-2006, 02:13 PM
All I know is what they told me. When I went to order League Pass, they said all Pacer games were blacked out.



So you didn't order it.

Naptown_Seth
11-07-2006, 02:39 PM
There is no Fox Cincy, but there is a Fox Sports Ohio. It's in an exclusive contract with the Cavs, though.

I think the problems had to do with the Fox Sports Midwest re-org. Like it used to be blacked out, but isn't anymore. Unfortunately, nobody noticed the change except me.
Well keep my main point in mind. Doesn't matter if there is no Fox Cincy. Think of it in Indy terms for a second.

Let's say Fox Sports IN/MW decides they only want to buy 35 Pacers games. Then WB4 (whatever) buys a package of 20 others. Those other 37 games end up unviewed in the Indy market because the 75 radius blackout is in effect.

The problem isn't with LPass at that point, but with the "local" (stretching it on that radius range) stations that decide not to buy and show every game.

So maybe you need some Cincy station to pony up the cash for Pacers games to get them in your market. You might be in the same position Indy people would be if Fox/4 didn't pay to broadcast games here.




All I know is what they told me. When I went to order League Pass, they said all Pacer games were blacked out.Honestly, you might have taken the word of an idiot. Can't tell how much a rep actually understands the rules. Maybe enough calls come in about Pacers games that they know for sure, or it could be that he was just trying to interpret the rules.

They should give you a full refund if you do order it and then find the Pacers games blacked out. Just play dumb and then complain it back off your bill if you don't see them.

Bball
11-07-2006, 02:49 PM
But aren't the games in a "Free view" mode right now? I think the first couple of weeks were opened up for all as a bit of a tease trying to hook as many buyers as possible. Now, blackout rules would still apply so if the Pacer games were blacked out then you'd know the rep told you correctly (even if the system is wrong whether they should be blacked out). OTOH, if they are showing up now during the freeview then that should mean they are not subject to blackout.

Or is TWC not participating in the freeview period?

Or am I totally wrong about the freeview period existing at all?

-BBall

Anthem
11-07-2006, 02:54 PM
But aren't the games in a "Free view" mode right now?
Good point. I'll try that tonight.

Bball
11-07-2006, 02:55 PM
Honestly, you might have taken the word of an idiot. Can't tell how much a rep actually understands the rules. Maybe enough calls come in about Pacers games that they know for sure, or it could be that he was just trying to interpret the rules.



Yes...
It's always worth remembering that "NO" is a simple answer when the person actually doesn't know. They tell you 'yes, the games are available' and then they are not, they've got an irate customer who will blame them for the root of the problem. They tell you "I don't know and it's hard to tell" then you are going to expect them to do more work and they might be ready for lunch or to check their email.

But if they tell you "No, those aren't available here" then there's not much left for them to do and they can go about whatever it is they have to do next.

Especially true when dealing with people who have scripts for answers and you've got a question that is not on their script.



-Bball

Anthem
11-07-2006, 02:56 PM
Let's say Fox Sports IN/MW decides they only want to buy 35 Pacers games. Then WB4 (whatever) buys a package of 20 others. Those other 37 games end up unviewed in the Indy market because the 75 radius blackout is in effect.

The problem isn't with LPass at that point, but with the "local" (stretching it on that radius range) stations that decide not to buy and show every game.

So maybe you need some Cincy station to pony up the cash for Pacers games to get them in your market. You might be in the same position Indy people would be if Fox/4 didn't pay to broadcast games here.
In theory that makes sense, except that there are no "over the air" games for the Pacers this year. FSI bought them all. So there are no extra games available for a local affiliate to buy.

Long and short is this. If League Pass isn't blacked out on Dish, it shouldn't be blacked out on Cable.

BillS
11-07-2006, 02:57 PM
Let's say Fox Sports IN/MW decides they only want to buy 35 Pacers games. Then WB4 (whatever) buys a package of 20 others. Those other 37 games end up unviewed in the Indy market because the 75 radius blackout is in effect.

I don't think this is correct. Since Fox did not buy the games, they would not be scheduled at all and therefore would not be "blacked out". WB4 would broadcast the games and therefore if you have local station coverage you would see them on WB4. They would not show locally on LP in either case because you would either have to have Fox or WB4 to watch them depending on which game it is.

Anthem
11-07-2006, 02:59 PM
It's always worth remembering that "NO" is a simple answer when the person actually doesn't know. They tell you 'yes, the games are available' and then they are not, they've got an irate customer who will blame them for the root of the problem. They tell you "I don't know and it's hard to tell" then you are going to expect them to do more work and they might be ready for lunch or to check their email.
I never brought up the Pacers. I asked for NBA League Pass, and he read from a script that said "The Indiana Pacers and Cleveland Cavaliers are blacked out in Cincinnati."

Anthem
11-07-2006, 02:59 PM
I don't think this is correct. Since Fox did not buy the games, they would not be scheduled at all and therefore would not be "blacked out". WB4 would broadcast the games and therefore if you have local station coverage you would see them on WB4. They would not show locally on LP in either case because you would either have to have Fox or WB4 to watch them depending on which game it is.
WB4 isn't broadcasting any games this year. They're all on FSI.

Jim R
11-07-2006, 06:24 PM
Hmm, you're right. But Fox Sports Cincinnati doesn't appear to carry Pacer games. When you watch Fox Sports Cincinnati, do you get Pacer games?

No...I hope you didn't infer that from what I wrote. I just get it for Reds' games, and I've never had an issue with any televised games being blacked out. They just don't televise all the Business Man Specials.

I've also never had a locally televised Pacer game blacked out either, and I live in a northern suburb of Indy. The only games that get blacked out are the ones FSMW or WTTV-4 don't carry but another Fox Sports station does.

I would find it hard to believe if you get the NBA package that the Pacer and Cavs games would be blacked out. I think what they are telling you is they are blacked out on those two Fox Sports networks if you don't get the package. In other words, you will get those channels locally, i.e. normal cable, but you won't get the NBA games or NHL games unless you buy those packages.

For instance, where I live, on my Direct TV, I get Fox Sports Chicago, Midwest, and Cincinnati, as well as the Comcast Sports channel out of Chicago. I don't get Bulls' games on the Chicago channels. They are blacked out. When I have the NBA package I get them though, on those specific channels and in the package lineup.

Anthem
11-07-2006, 08:01 PM
Hilarious.

I talked to the rep, who said the Indiana Pacers would be blacked out. I ordered anyway.

And now I'm watching the Pacers feed on Channel 364. Beautiful.

Los Angeles
11-07-2006, 09:08 PM
Hilarious.

I talked to the rep, who said the Indiana Pacers would be blacked out. I ordered anyway.

And now I'm watching the Pacers feed on Channel 364. Beautiful.

Good to hear!

:woohoo:

Anthem
11-07-2006, 09:20 PM
I'm so glad I got to see that game.

This is going to be nice.

Ragnar
11-07-2006, 09:36 PM
If you live within the 100 mile radius you must get both the sports pack and league pass. It sucks but it must be done.

I live 102 miles and have to prove it to direct TV every couple of years. Its very anoying.

gilpdawg
11-08-2006, 02:30 PM
Anthem, there is a Fox Sports Cincinnati. On Direct TV it's channel 638. There is also Fox Sports Ohio. It's 636.
Fox Sports Cincinnati is actually the same as Fox Sports Ohio. It's 2 feeds, one for northern Ohio and one for Southern Ohio. Sort of like the FSN Midwest/Indiana confusion.

naptownmenace
11-08-2006, 04:05 PM
Hilarious.

I talked to the rep, who said the Indiana Pacers would be blacked out. I ordered anyway.

And now I'm watching the Pacers feed on Channel 364. Beautiful.

That's pretty much what I expected. Even if they block out the FSI or Fox Ohio feeds, you can watch the Pacers oppent feed. Something I forgot to mention yesterday.

I'm just gonna say it one more time... Time Warner Cable sux. ;)

gummy
11-08-2006, 07:36 PM
My issue isn't related to League Pass but the general themes here are close enough that I feel this is the appropriate place to vent.

So I have Dish Network and I live in Southern California. I bought the multi-sport package today hoping to catch some Pacers games on Fox Sports IN/MW. I tried to tune in this evening to find that the game is blacked out. In fact, every NBA game on every Fox Sports channel is blacked out.

So I call Dish and speak to a rep who says I can only get professional sports games on my two regional Fox Sports channels. I asked him what the point of the multi-sport package was and he said "To watch college sports."

I'm thinking they should call it the You Can Only Watch College Sports Package.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr. I guess I should save up for League Pass.

Off to the game thread, I guess. :(

Naptown_Seth
11-10-2006, 01:00 AM
Hilarious.

I talked to the rep, who said the Indiana Pacers would be blacked out. I ordered anyway.

And now I'm watching the Pacers feed on Channel 364. Beautiful.

Honestly, you might have taken the word of an idiot. Can't tell how much a rep actually understands the rules. Maybe enough calls come in about Pacers games that they know for sure, or it could be that he was just trying to interpret the rules.

They should give you a full refund if you do order it and then find the Pacers games blacked out. Just play dumb and then complain it back off your bill if you don't see them.
There ya go. ;)

Naptown_Seth
11-10-2006, 01:04 AM
My issue isn't related to League Pass but the general themes here are close enough that I feel this is the appropriate place to vent.

So I have Dish Network and I live in Southern California. I bought the multi-sport package today hoping to catch some Pacers games on Fox Sports IN/MW. I tried to tune in this evening to find that the game is blacked out. In fact, every NBA game on every Fox Sports channel is blacked out.

So I call Dish and speak to a rep who says I can only get professional sports games on my two regional Fox Sports channels. I asked him what the point of the multi-sport package was and he said "To watch college sports."

I'm thinking they should call it the You Can Only Watch College Sports Package.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr. I guess I should save up for League Pass.

Off to the game thread, I guess. :(
Beware. NCAA football also has a subscriber package that would probably blackout Fox Affiliates too.

Among dish owners of both types the Sports package is pretty much a joke. In Indy at least (I think national actually) they even pulled Speedvision out of the sports package because people were too PO'd that they had to pay extra just to get a standard cable channel.

Honestly I don't know who this package appeals to. I guess college hockey fans or people that want to watch local pre-games and fantasy football roundtables.:)

marcd
11-10-2006, 10:07 AM
There is another weird little quirk that popped up on DirecTV this week. Channel 663 (FSI) was working fine on my HD Receiver and on Tuesday's game it was black, it didn't say the program was not available. And I switched my TV to my standard-def box (use it for TIVO) channel 663 and it worked fine on the same TV. Anyone else having this problem? My other FSN channels work fine when there is something on.

Figured I would check again tonight when the game starts. I have just been watching the standard box.

MarcD

Bball
11-10-2006, 01:28 PM
There is another weird little quirk that popped up on DirecTV this week. Channel 663 (FSI) was working fine on my HD Receiver and on Tuesday's game it was black, it didn't say the program was not available. And I switched my TV to my standard-def box (use it for TIVO) channel 663 and it worked fine on the same TV. Anyone else having this problem? My other FSN channels work fine when there is something on.

Figured I would check again tonight when the game starts. I have just been watching the standard box.

MarcD

Sounds like you need to unplug the HD receiver from the wall (unplug the power cable, not RG6 dish cable) for 1 minute, during that minute walk in a counterclockwise circle repeating the mantra "I want my Directv, I want my Directv...", and then plug it back in and let it try it again.

Oh... you could skip the walking in a circle part if you want to risk angering the Directv gods. ;)

-Bball

marcd
11-13-2006, 09:31 AM
Thanks for the suggestion. I finally broke down and called them Saturday night when I could explain it to them better. Turns out you weren't too far off. I had to open the secret hatch on the front (where the card goes) and press the button to reset the box (felt like Locke in LOST). It reboots the whole thing. They claimed it had to do with Daylight Savings time, but I think it was just a weird quirk.

MarcD

ChicagoJ
11-15-2006, 10:51 AM
There is no Fox Cincy, but there is a Fox Sports Ohio. It's in an exclusive contract with the Cavs, though.

I think the problems had to do with the Fox Sports Midwest re-org. Like it used to be blacked out, but isn't anymore. Unfortunately, nobody noticed the change except me.

A decade ago, SportsChannel Cincinnati (predecessor for Fox Sports Ohio when it was combined with SportsChannel Cleveland) OWNED the regional affiliate rights for many Marion County zip codes (including, in particular, 46237). Keep in mind, the Reds used to be very popular in Indianapolis, so there was a reason Cincy "claimed" that territory.

So at that time, Prime Sports Network (predecessor for Fox Sports Midwest) had Pacers' broadcast rights but did not have Indianapolis territory rights. At that time, I had to subscribe to both the League Pass and the regional sports network package to get Pacers game, as a Marion Co. resident.

When I called the Pacers, they very helpfully told me that they just did not have any influence on how the regional sports networks divided up their territories. (Money).

I don't know if that was your problem or not, but there's much more to this problem than what meets the eye (or that a customer service rep can explain.)