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Destined4Greatness
10-22-2006, 11:02 AM
The simple fact that JO is injury prone.

I mean seriously how can people continue to defend him with the crap like "He just has freak injuries" or "he has just been unlucky". I mean seriously he has been injured the last 3 years in preseason, that alone is a sign of being injury prone.

I am not going to say he is as injury prone as JT, but JT's title may well be in jeopardy.

Unclebuck
10-22-2006, 11:07 AM
I've been saying he's injury prone for about 3 seasons now. Even when he isn't "injured" he is still having problems with his back or something. After playing about 15-20 straight games he always has some type of nagging injury that even though he continues to play the nagging injury adversely effects his play. I think I posted two seasons ago that JO needs to play 20 games and then sit out 5 and continue that throughout the whole season.

His body just can't endure a full NBA season without getting injured.

Before someone gets upset with me, I don't think I'm being critical or anything, just stating the facts.

Pacesetter
10-22-2006, 11:22 AM
I've been saying he's injury prone for about 3 seasons now. Even when he isn't "injured" he is still having problems with his back or something. After playing about 15-20 straight games he always has some type of nagging injury that even though he continues to play the nagging injury adversely effects his play. I think I posted two seasons ago that JO needs to play 20 games and then sit out 5 and continue that throughout the whole season.

His body just can't endure a full NBA season without getting injured.

Before someone gets upset with me, I don't think I'm being critical or anything, just stating the facts.

Not critical just short-sighted ...

He gets a shoulder popped out of place during a game which partially tears his rotator cuff. He then gets a groin injury during a game the very next season (Last season). This is JO, not stretch armstrong ... get a grip dude!

JO is sitting because they want to rest him before the season, I don't believe for a second he's injured. If they really needed him he'd be on the floor injured or not. Some of you experts around here ought to be thankful for your day jobs. You know a fraction of what Donnie Walsh has forgotten about!

Destined4Greatness
10-22-2006, 11:24 AM
Not critical just short-sighted ...

He gets a shoulder popped out of place during a game which partially tears his rotator cuff. He then gets a groin injury during a game the very next season (Last season). This is JO, not stretch armstrong ... get a grip dude!

JO is sitting because they want to rest him before the season, I don't believe for a second he's injured. If they really needed him he'd be on the floor injured or not. Some of you experts around here ought to be thankful for your day jobs. You know a fraction of what Donnie Walsh has forgotten about!

That is just foolish this team has lacked chemistry for 2 seasons now when JO is on the floor that last thing they need to be doing is sitting him when he is not injured. And hes had alot more injuries than just his groin and shoulder.

Wrist
Groin
Shoulder
Knee
Foot
Hamstring
Achilles Tendon
Flu
ETC

Robertmto
10-22-2006, 11:24 AM
JO is sitting because they want to rest him before the season, I don't believe for a second he's injured. If they really needed him he'd be on the floor injured or not. Some of you experts around here ought to be thankful for your day jobs. You know a fraction of what Donnie Walsh has forgotten about!

The sky is blue, We landed on the moon, and JO is injury prone.

Do you believe any of THAT?

Pacesetter
10-22-2006, 11:26 AM
It's preseason, ladies!

Unclebuck
10-22-2006, 11:38 AM
He gets a shoulder popped out of place during a game which partially tears his rotator cuff. He then gets a groin injury during a game the very next season (Last season). This is JO, not stretch armstrong ... get a grip dude!




Throw those two injuries out, I did not mention those in my post and they weren't factored into what I posted. I'm talking about the nagging injuries that he plays through but that adversly impacts his play.

JO wears down after playing a number of games in a row and he gets hurt - he suffers nagging injuries and thern he doesn't play as well. That is why he usually plays his best games after he returns from injury. There is a definite pattern. He returns from injury, after two or three games to get his timing back he plays extremely well for about 10-15 games but then he gets hurt and he starts to struggle. He can't jump as high so his shot gets blocked more, his blocks go down. His shot suffers. That is why I truly want him to play 15-20 games and then sit out 5. That would help him a lot

That is just JO.

Another disclaimer: I don't base any of this on what he's going through right now, it is preseason and I don't read much into what is going on right now

Destined4Greatness
10-22-2006, 11:41 AM
It's preseason, ladies!

Adding ladies to your posts doesn't make them more credible, it makes them less. The fact that its preseason and he is hurt is even worse. He isn't even being asked to be the go to guy, and play 35+ minutes and he is already breaking down, just like the last 2 preseasons.

Pacesetter
10-22-2006, 11:42 AM
Throw those two injuries out, I did not mention those in my post and they weren't factored into what I posted. I'm talking about the nagging injuries that he plays through but that adversly impacts his play.

You mean when he was 20 lbs over his average of 242? Please advise ...

ajbry
10-22-2006, 11:44 AM
This is a bit interesting (taken from the Yahoo profile of JO - the News and Notes section):

Oct 21 O'Neal didn't play for the second time this week because of a sore left hamstring. The Pacers swingman is considered day-to-day. Stephen Jackson scored 20 points and Danny Granger added 18 leading to questions about O'Neal's role on the team.

Destined4Greatness
10-22-2006, 11:45 AM
Isn't he still above his weight. I was kinda out of the loop for a while, but I was under the impression for months he said he was going to drop weight and then just recently when he hadn't dropped all that much he changed his mind saying he needed to stay big to play in the post.

Destined4Greatness
10-22-2006, 11:46 AM
This is a bit interesting (taken from the Yahoo profile of JO - the News and Notes section):

Oct 21 O'Neal didn't play for the second time this week because of a sore left hamstring. The Pacers swingman is considered day-to-day. Stephen Jackson scored 20 points and Danny Granger added 18 leading to questions about O'Neal's role on the team.

Yahoo just ports their articles from ESPN, so what do you expect. Its ESPN, I mean its got more errors than a President Bush speech.

Pacesetter
10-22-2006, 11:48 AM
Adding ladies to your posts doesn't make them more credible, it makes them less. The fact that its preseason and he is hurt is even worse. He isn't even being asked to be the go to guy, and play 35+ minutes and he is already breaking down, just like the last 2 preseasons.

My posts are not intended to be gospel truth, on the contrary like most of the crap I read in this forum, I'm just throwing shtuff against the wall to see if it sticks.

If that sounds negative, it's supposed to be. Enough about trading players, at some point people need to get on board and ride the storm out, back the players and appreciate their efforts.

Cornrows
10-22-2006, 11:48 AM
Supposed nagging injuries in preseason aren't worth debating. JO will be ready to go on Nov. 1. If he misses another 20 plus games this year (for the third straight year) then I'd hit him with the injury prone/glass doll tag.

http://indycornrows.blogspot.com

Unclebuck
10-22-2006, 11:50 AM
You mean when he was 20 lbs over his average of 242? Please advise ...

I feel like I'm at work, with your "please advise".....(I'm not being critical it is just funny because I get that at work 4 or 5 times per day it seems)

Yes I'm hopeful the loss of weight will help JO

Pacesetter
10-22-2006, 11:51 AM
I feel like I'm at work, with your "please advise".....(I'm not being critical it is just funny because I get that at work 4 or 5 times per day it seems)

Yes I'm hopeful the loss of weight will help JO

Yeah, I take great pride in my ability to profile, thanks! lol

Destined4Greatness
10-22-2006, 11:51 AM
Supposed nagging injuries in preseason aren't worth debating. JO will be ready to go on Nov. 1. If he misses another 20 plus games this year (for the third straight year) then I'd hit him with the injury prone/glass doll tag.

http://indycornrows.blogspot.com


You know people said his nagging preseason injuries the last 2 years didn't mean anything. Ooops. The fact is that if you have a what, 6 month break come back for a week and already hurting, not a good sign.

able
10-22-2006, 12:10 PM
And hes had alot more injuries than just his groin and shoulder.

Wrist When ?

Groin after playing to soon with an ankle at request of the coach

Shouldernot freak ?

KneeLOL yeah that was wear and tear right ?

Foot when ?

Hamstring who hasn't ??

Achilles Tendon wrong player

Flu You are joking here aren't you ?

ETC
Half of the above exist in your imagination only.
The injury of JO atm is of no consequence, but since it is PRE seaons they do not want to take any risk.
Now Tins is playing it becomes harder to biatch about anything, so we can concentrate on JO again, I wonder what it is with people that there is a need to bash our best player, and one of the best players in the league, is it their own inferiority complexes that they have to protect this way? I really dont know but I do know that it is almost sickening that after we had the shoot Jax threads we now have threads guessins on how many games our PG will miss and to whether we can agree that our best player is injury prone.

Start by defining injury prone, then you will see that your entire premise is wrong to begin with.

Secondly start praying heavily to be wrong, because this team without JO is absolutely aiming for the last spot in the league.

Before annointing other players to be the stars of the future, let them get to the future first, in the present JO is by far our best player, a perennial All Star (something we never had in the NBA) and a potential MVP candidate.
He has that palmares, earned, let's try and pay him the respect that comes with the territory

able
10-22-2006, 12:16 PM
You know people said his nagging preseason injuries the last 2 years didn't mean anything. Ooops. The fact is that if you have a what, 6 month break come back for a week and already hurting, not a good sign.

maths, a problem, 2004 ECF was in what June ? he had till the start of Oct (at most 4 months) to rehab an overextended knee, not exactly an easy thing, whilst also trying to get in shape for the season.

Ok 2005 you say ? 1 week more to rehab shoulder damage that I am sure we never heard the finer points about, but that it was very serious I do believe, again, whilst getting in shape, a hard job.

Destined4Greatness
10-22-2006, 12:20 PM
maths, a problem, 2004 ECF was in what June ? he had till the start of Oct (at most 4 months) to rehab an overextended knee, not exactly an easy thing, whilst also trying to get in shape for the season.

Ok 2005 you say ? 1 week more to rehab shoulder damage that I am sure we never heard the finer points about, but that it was very serious I do believe, again, whilst getting in shape, a hard job.

Maths not that strong a suit of yours. pacers were eliminated from the Playoffs the first week of May IIRC, and now its almost the first week of november. Oh so forgive me, a 5 1/2 month break from competitive basketball, how dare I round up a basic math skill.

Bball
10-22-2006, 12:27 PM
You guys forgot "elbow". Doesn't JO always end up with his elbow wrapped fairly early in the season and it stays there?

Bursitis?

-Bball

able
10-22-2006, 12:30 PM
Maths not that strong a suit of yours. pacers were eliminated from the Playoffs the first week of May IIRC, and now its almost the first week of november. Oh so forgive me, a 5 1/2 month break from competitive basketball, how dare I round up a basic math skill.

ok so we discount the 4 weeks of camp, yeah of course, it's only a month

May 4 last game, October 3 opening of camp and all the time in between was a holiday right ?

aceace
10-22-2006, 12:32 PM
I don't think you can look at pre-season injuries to judge a player. Most of those are just precautionary measures to make sure your ready for the season opening game. Its not real necessaryto play in the preseason if your at practice everyday, taking part in drills etc.etc. JO was hammered in Denver when he injured his shoulder. That injury most likely would have happened to anyone in the same situation. Pulling your groin can happen easily. I did it lifting up a box that weighed 20 lbs when my leg slid sideways out on a slick surface. NBA floors, many of them have ice underneath and that moisture makes it way up sometimes. His first 4 years he avg about 77 games the previous 2 were shortened by the 2 injuries and the suspension. For those of you that think we should trade JO, i'm sure the other 29 teams will be lined up to make their offer.

Evan_The_Dude
10-22-2006, 12:36 PM
"Attention all shoppers!!! Customer 'Jermaniac' please report to the front of the store, your party is waiting for you!!"

Destined4Greatness
10-22-2006, 12:39 PM
ok so we discount the 4 weeks of camp, yeah of course, it's only a month

May 4 last game, October 3 opening of camp and all the time in between was a holiday right ?

It wasn't competitive basketball.

able
10-22-2006, 12:43 PM
It wasn't competitive basketball.

If you count it for the injuries, see your opening statement in this thread, then it also counts for work.

Now I never knew that practise and training was not work related, but you can perhaps open my eyes there

Unclebuck
10-22-2006, 12:50 PM
I honestly and truly believe it isn't even close, JO is very injury prone. That doesn't mean he's a terrible player, or that I hate him, or want him traded, or that he's a bad guy and no one is suggesting he's faking anything, he is just injury prone.

P.S. you can be a JO fan and still admit he is injury prone.

CableKC
10-22-2006, 12:56 PM
I honestly and truly believe it isn't even close, JO is very injury prone. That doesn't mean he's a terrible player, or that I hate him, or want him traded, or that he's a bad guy and no one is suggesting he's faking anything, he is just injury prone.

P.S. you can be a JO fan and still admit he is injury prone.

Your post pretty much sums it up for me.

I pretty much expect him to get injured sometime throughout the year....cuz he's simply injury prone. When I expect that he will get injured.....I'm not surprised when it happens. The same goes for Tinsley....when he doesn't play cuz he has a sinus infection....I'm not surprised. The same principle applies to SJax....when SJax becomes Jordan-esque and can hit everything that is thrown his way....then goes as ice-cold and becomes effective as a refrigerator.....I'm not surprised....cuz I know that he's a streaky scorer.

The second Tinsley / JONeal plays 70+ games a season and SJax becomes a consistent scorer......you know that the universe has been "turned upside down".....until then....Tinsley/JONeal will always be injury prone and SJax will always have hot and cold days like a water faucet.

Hicks
10-22-2006, 12:57 PM
He's definitely prone to minor/moderate injuries. I just want him to get through this year without another major one. But the major one in 2005 wasn't his fault, and it's not like he did something reckless last year to tear the groin from his bone (take a piece with it).

ABADays
10-22-2006, 01:00 PM
I've never seen so many people get so bent out of shape over preseason games.

sweabs
10-22-2006, 01:01 PM
I have to agree with UB on this one. I don't see how you can argue this. It's not even the big injuries that bother me; it's the constant nagging ones that never seem to go away.

How many times do you find yourself reading the pre-game report and see Jermaine's name listed as injured......when he's playing! It's constantly something. I don't know what the reasons are behind it, but there is no denying it. I respect JO for trying to fight through a lot of those nagging injuries, but as UB said he is never the same effective player compared to when he takes a couple games off to regroup.

Ask any fan of another team what they think of JO. I can almost guarantee that at least either of the phrases "overpaid" or "injury-prone" come up.

Trader Joe
10-22-2006, 02:26 PM
PRESEASON. That is all. Maybe TPTB finally learned that "Hey, JO is a perennial all-star maybe we shouldn't make him play a bunch of games that don't matter in the end." The Lakers do it with Kobe and a ton of other teams do it with their best player. He may have a very, very slight injury, but I highly doubt it would keep him even out of an uimportant regular season game.

JayRedd
10-22-2006, 02:45 PM
P.S. you can be a JO fan and still admit he is injury prone.

Constuctive criticism and being a fan? What a novel idea.

Reggie played bad defense
Mark Jackson was slow
Jalen Rose took some bad shots
Dale Davis couldn't score

and

Jermaine O'Neal gets injured a lot

These are only facts...They don't mean you're a worse fan for aknowledging them.

Destined4Greatness
10-22-2006, 03:32 PM
When ? after playing to soon with an ankle at request of the coachnot freak ?LOL yeah that was wear and tear right ? when ?who hasn't ?? wrong player You are joking here aren't you ?
Half of the above exist in your imagination only.
The injury of JO atm is of no consequence, but since it is PRE seaons they do not want to take any risk.
Now Tins is playing it becomes harder to biatch about anything, so we can concentrate on JO again, I wonder what it is with people that there is a need to bash our best player, and one of the best players in the league, is it their own inferiority complexes that they have to protect this way? I really dont know but I do know that it is almost sickening that after we had the shoot Jax threads we now have threads guessins on how many games our PG will miss and to whether we can agree that our best player is injury prone.

Start by defining injury prone, then you will see that your entire premise is wrong to begin with.

<B>Secondly start praying heavily to be wrong, because this team without JO is absolutely aiming for the last spot in the league.

Before annointing other players to be the stars of the future, let them get to the future first, in the present JO is by far our best player, a perennial All Star (something we never had in the NBA) and a potential MVP candidate.
He has that palmares, earned, let's try and pay him the respect that comes with the territory</B>

*removed* Cool off, or leave [-Hicks]I am so tired of JO-Lovers saying this team is headed to lottery without him. THE TEAM WINS MORE GAMES WITHOUT HIM. I am not that good in Math, thats ables claim. But the more games you win, the more likely you are to make the playoffs, If I understand this correct. I think thats the problem the Hawks keep running into.

The Hustler
10-22-2006, 05:44 PM
i actually cant believe half the stuff i am reading here!

J.O isnt "injury prone" ...most of the games hes missed were from freakin incididents like his shoulder or knee.... how can flu be seen as an arguement for a player being injury prone!

In preseason if your star player who in garanteed to be playing 30 mins a game all year regardles of what happens in these games even feels the slightest bit tight you sit him down ... i dont care if its his little toe that has an itch ... you dont risk anything in preseason with your best player...

as for this team being better without J.O i might actually cry! Hes an All star, one of the top post players in the league and our best player ... period!

Alpolloloco
10-22-2006, 05:55 PM
i actually cant believe half the stuff i am reading here!

J.O isnt "injury prone" ...most of the games hes missed were from freakin incididents like his shoulder or knee.... how can flu be seen as an arguement for a player being injury prone!

In preseason if your star player who in garanteed to be playing 30 mins a game all year regardles of what happens in these games even feels the slightest bit tight you sit him down ... i dont care if its his little toe that has an itch ... you dont risk anything in preseason with your best player...

as for this team being better without J.O i might actually cry! Hes an All star, one of the top post players in the league and our best player ... period!

Nobody is argueing with you that JO isn't the best player, but is he in the best interest for our team? Does he hold up the offense so much that we can't transform in more ball movement and more running offense? Besides all the little (freak) injuries, and I hope that he got his share of it, is it the right choice to keep him on our team?
Maybe now is the best time to trade him while he still has some nice value. Another injurie riddled season makes a possible trade much less attractive.

Destined4Greatness
12-01-2006, 11:42 PM
So a handful of Injuries already this season, are people who denied it finally willing to admit it. JO is Injury Prone.

Trader Joe
12-01-2006, 11:46 PM
So a handful of Injuries already this season, are people who denied it finally willing to admit it. JO is Injury Prone.

And yet he has only missed one game. :deadhorse:

Kingsfanbmiller
12-02-2006, 01:32 AM
Kings will give you Bibby+Scoreless Williamson+Garcia for JO.

Destined4Greatness
12-02-2006, 01:42 AM
And yet he has only missed one game. :deadhorse:

So what, its ok for him to play at what looks like 70%. Congrats he has missed one game in less than 20. Hes already this beat up now, wait till february. Admitting JO is injury prone doesn't make you less of a fan, in fact all it can do for you is make you a more realistic person.

And how exactly is this issue a dead horse, didn't he get hurt like 2 1/2 hours ago. OK guys no more holding things against players past an 2 hours. No more whining about Jack shooting too much unless it happened in that time frame. AND WHOA the brawl is off limits.

Lord Helmet
12-02-2006, 02:12 AM
Every player has their positives and negatives.

Yes, EVERY player.

Mourning
12-03-2006, 08:12 AM
Kings will give you Bibby+Scoreless Williamson+Garcia for JO.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

It would be worth seeying "old friends" JO and Ron reunited :spitout: :lol2:

Unclebuck
03-21-2007, 04:01 PM
Yes he is injury prone

beast23
03-21-2007, 04:13 PM
We've been burned a few times when our key players had to cut their careers short due to injuries. Smits, Stipanovich, Kellogg.

We cannot afford to lose JO without getting something in return. I sure hope he is able to perform well in a few games before the end of the season. I'm thinking we probably need to trade him... and the trade involving JO will be a make or break trade for this team.

Unclebuck
03-21-2007, 04:15 PM
We cannot afford to lose JO without getting something in return. I sure hope he is able to perform well in a few games before the end of the season. I'm thinking we probably need to trade him... and the trade involving JO will be a make or break trade for this team.


It is by far the biggest decision facing this franchise, and the trade will impact the franchise for years and years

beast23
03-21-2007, 04:20 PM
It is by far the biggest decision facing this franchise, and the trade will impact the franchise for years and yearsyep.

We could either get a serviceable player and a real nice pick that might turn into a wonderful player for years to come...

or we could end up becoming cellar dwellars for the next several years.

Wow... maybe I picked a good time to be a travelling consultant. I've not been home much since November. And I got to tell you, it's been far less stressful for me regarding the Pacers.

Big Smooth
03-21-2007, 07:58 PM
Every player has their positives and negatives.

Yes, EVERY player.

Not every player. Eddie Gill had no negatives, he was perfect! :D

Jermaine injury prone? Of course. But I think in some ways he has gotten tougher over the years, when he does get hurt now I know he's hurt because he does play through pain a lot. In his younger days, he had a habit of acting like he had been shot everytime he took a spill.

Maybe he just needs a new training regimen?

clownskull
03-21-2007, 11:27 PM
Not every player. Eddie Gill had no negatives, he was perfect! :D

Jermaine injury prone? Of course. But I think in some ways he has gotten tougher over the years, when he does get hurt now I know he's hurt because he does play through pain a lot. In his younger days, he had a habit of acting like he had been shot everytime he took a spill.

Maybe he just needs a new training regimen?

i wish. but, i seriously doubt it would make any difference. he went from being a lightweight version at 240 to a heavyweight at around 270 and then dropped some off. when i look at his body structure, even when he got heavy, he still looked of slim build. he always will be and just has a more fragile body than some others others. i wish it were not the biggest reason that i believe he will always miss a solid 12-20 games every year.

aero
03-21-2007, 11:33 PM
would you guys take a guy by the name of Kevin Garnet for JO ? wouldnt work straight up but im sure we could add a player/players to sweeten the deal.

Bball
03-22-2007, 12:28 AM
would you guys take a guy by the name of Kevin Garnet for JO ? wouldnt work straight up but im sure we could add a player/players to sweeten the deal.

Tinsley and JO work for KG.

But it's hard imagining an NBA team willing to take Tinsley.

-Bball

beast23
03-22-2007, 07:10 AM
Tinsley and JO work for KG.

But it's hard imagining an NBA team willing to take Tinsley.

-Bball;)
Problem is, that might have worked last summer, but now I doubt it.

KG will look at this team and say no way in hell will I go there, that's a worse situation than I'm already in.

The Wolves will look at JO and probably say no way in hell will JO's knees hold up much longer.

We may trade JO, but I think the quality of players we get in return is falling on a weekly basis. I think the big return we would be looking at will be in draft pick(s), not players. And that's going to lengthen whatever time it takes for us to once again be competitive.

Bball
03-22-2007, 09:10 AM
;)
Problem is, that might have worked last summer, but now I doubt it.

KG will look at this team and say no way in hell will I go there, that's a worse situation than I'm already in.

The Wolves will look at JO and probably say no way in hell will JO's knees hold up much longer.

We may trade JO, but I think the quality of players we get in return is falling on a weekly basis. I think the big return we would be looking at will be in draft pick(s), not players. And that's going to lengthen whatever time it takes for us to once again be competitive.


Oh, I agree. The window of opportunity for trading JO and scoring a fan pleasing player(s) in return has been fast closing and was in much better shape a year or two ago when the writing was already forming on the wall (IMHO).

-Bball

ChicagoJ
03-22-2007, 03:48 PM
Wow... maybe I picked a good time to be a travelling consultant. I've not been home much since November. And I got to tell you, it's been far less stressful for me regarding the Pacers.

I'll take that one step further - I've been in Atlanta for most of the basketball season. That's certainly helped keep the stress of losing to a minimum - going to a city that doesn't really give a hoot at all about professional basketball.