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Anthem
10-18-2006, 10:42 PM
What a blast. I came home after a brutal day, sat down at the PC to see the score, and saw somebody mention that the game was in Cincinnati. I looked it up, and it was at the USBank Arena! That's 10 minutes from me! I ran to the car, drove downtown, got a ticket, and walked in at the end of the second quarter.

Before going any farther, I need to say this. I was excited when we signed Sarunas. I didn't buy Bball's theory that he'd been brought in to immediately replace Tinsley, but I thought he'd be a top-notch backup point guard who might eventually be starter material. Last year obviously didn't go well; I strongly disagreed with those who said his failings weren't his fault, but I thought he'd improve over the summer and come back strong. I thought he'd be more used to the speed of the NBA game and the rigors of the season. I WANT TO BELIEVE.

That being said, based on today's play I'd say if there were any justice in the world, Jimmy Hunter would stick with the team and Sarunas would be cut. And it's not because Hunter was so good, because he wasn't. Not terrible, but not good. But Sarunas was worse... far worse. He was bad on offense, bad on defense, his court vision was terrible, he couldn't advance the ball, and he didn't get along with his teammates. I was frustrated the entire time. He played the whole third quarter, and the team got farther and farther behind. Hunter's no miracle pill, but the team got back in it when he took over in the fourth.

More will follow, I just had to get that off my chest.

Destined4Greatness
10-18-2006, 10:46 PM
I hope he is cut.

Jermaniac
10-18-2006, 10:49 PM
You know its sad when you play worse then Jimmy Hunter. Like I said when we signed him Sarunas was never going to be close to as good as Jamaal Tinsley is.

Jermaniac
10-18-2006, 10:50 PM
I hope he is cut.NO WAY Bird would cut him. Thats his poster boy, and it would make Bird look stupid.

Destined4Greatness
10-18-2006, 10:52 PM
NO WAY Bird would cut him. Thats his poster boy, and it would make Bird look stupid.

So is keeping him. Rock[Bird]Hard Place

Might as well look stupid and win more games.

Unclebuck
10-18-2006, 10:59 PM
I hadn't considered the possiblity that Saras might be cut. That would be fine with me.

Couldn't they tell him it just isn't working out here, and strongly suggest he go back to Isreal. Pacers could work out some type of buyout where they pay him a portion of what is owed on his contract for this season and next.

Anthem
10-18-2006, 11:00 PM
Ok, first the bubble players. I liked them all.

Rawle Marshall looked good. Really good. The most fun in the game was when Marshall and White were on the wings... they attacked, and attacked, and attacked the basket. Both had a decent shot as well. I'd love to have the two of them on the wing with Danny and JO up front... especially if we had a decent point guard.

Which we don't. Even though Hunter was better than Saras, he wasn't that great. Armstrong didn't play at all, nor did Tinsley or Daniels. And that meant that all three of Denver's point guards were better than anybody we had on the floor. Andre Miller, Earl Boykins, and Anthony Carter all looked better than any PG we had on the floor. Barring a trade, D. Armstrong is going to end up starting a good number of games for us this year. That's not a good thing. But enough on the point guards.

Pacesetter
10-18-2006, 11:00 PM
Sarunas has admitted he's not the best athlete. I like him because he shows up healthy every night ready to play. Some of you people ought to go to LA or find a new team to cheer for, Pacers fans love Sarunas! Either get on the train or find a new ride. Like it or not, the fans who pay to see them play cheer wildly for Sarunas!

Destined4Greatness
10-18-2006, 11:05 PM
Sarunas has admitted he's not the best athlete. I like him because he shows up healthy every night ready to play. Some of you people ought to go to LA or find a new team to cheer for, Pacers fans love Sarunas! Either get on the train or find a new ride. Like it or not, the fans who pay to see them play cheer wildly for Sarunas!

Pretty sure you are delusional.

Destined4Greatness
10-18-2006, 11:06 PM
Since Sarunas got here, 2. But I am poor college student.

Jermaniac
10-18-2006, 11:07 PM
Pretty sure you are delusional.I think he has been sippin on some gin and juice.

Eddie Gill showed up healthy and ready to play every night, that didnt change the fact that he was a horrible basketball player.

Aw Heck
10-18-2006, 11:07 PM
Armstrong didn't play at all
Actually he did. He was probably done by the time you got there though.

But there was a point in the game where he hit back-to-back three's. And from what I was hearing on the radio, he was playing pretty solid defense on Boykins.

Pretty sad that Armstrong is the PG that I am the most excited about.

Pacesetter
10-18-2006, 11:08 PM
Since Sarunas got here, 2. But I am poor college student.

You and many here like you!

Destined4Greatness
10-18-2006, 11:09 PM
So whats your point. The gen public doesn't like him either. My Uncle went to every game except one and he hates runi more than me.

ABADays
10-18-2006, 11:09 PM
There's a lot of guys with things to prove this year - Jackson, Harrison, Tinsley, Runi. Let's just see what happens.

Just
10-18-2006, 11:10 PM
Yeah, let's cut Saras. I would rather have Greene Rawle and Powell over him.

Destined4Greatness
10-18-2006, 11:10 PM
There's a lot of guys with things to prove this year - Jackson, Harrison, Tinsley, Runi. Let's just see what happens.

JO, Granger, Powell, Marshall, UM EVERYBODY.

Runi just doesn't seem to have the ability to prove himself.

Roaming Gnome
10-18-2006, 11:12 PM
:fingerscrossed: I hope Runi does come around, because if he doesn't....looks like we are stuck with him anyway. :cry:

Pacesetter
10-18-2006, 11:16 PM
Wah, let's all fricken cry about it! Sarunas is on the team, and so is Jackson. If you don't like it, find another team!

:loser: :loser:

Back in the day we cheered for everybody. Most of which couldn't do **** on their own, but Pacers fans accepted THAT. Nowadays everybody wants to ***** and moan. Where the HELL have all the REAL Pacers fans gone? You people aren't Pacers fans, because most of you can't remember when we appreciated guys like Sarunas. All you want to do is bury the guy. Find a new team, the Pacers don't need people who never pay to see games at Conseco and spend all their time on the internet *****ing about 'em!

Destined4Greatness
10-18-2006, 11:18 PM
Wah, let's all fricken cry about it! Sarunas is on the team, and so is Jackson. If you don't like it, find another team!

:loser: :loser:

Back in the day we cheered for everybody. Most of which couldn't do **** on their own, but Pacers fans accepted THAT. Nowadays everybody wants to ***** and moan. Where the HELL have all the REAL Pacers fans gone? You people aren't Pacers fans, because most of you can't remember when we appreciated guys like Sarunas. All you want to do is bury the guy. Find a new team, the Pacers don't need people who never pay to see games at Conseco and spend all their time on the internet *****ing about 'em!

So by your logic unless you like every single person on a team, then you should find a new one. Thats just amazing logic. Lets get you a book deal.

Unclebuck
10-18-2006, 11:18 PM
Wah, let's all fricken cry about it! Sarunas is on the team, and so is Jackson. If you don't like it, find another team!

:loser: :loser:

Back in the day we cheered for everybody. Most of which couldn't do **** on their own, but Pacers fans accepted THAT. Nowadays everybody wants to ***** and moan. Where the HELL have all the REAL Pacers fans gone? You people aren't Pacers fans, because most of you can't remember when we appreciated guys like Sarunas. All you want to do is bury the guy. Find a new team, the Pacers don't need people who never pay to see games at Conseco and spend all their time on the internet *****ing about 'em!


Are you OK

Aw Heck
10-18-2006, 11:20 PM
Wah, let's all fricken cry about it! Sarunas is on the team, and so is Jackson. If you don't like it, find another team!

:loser: :loser:

Back in the day we cheered for everybody. Most of which couldn't do **** on their own, but Pacers fans accepted THAT. Nowadays everybody wants to ***** and moan. Where the HELL have all the REAL Pacers fans gone? You people aren't Pacers fans, because most of you can't remember when we appreciated guys like Sarunas. All you want to do is bury the guy. Find a new team, the Pacers don't need people who never pay to see games at Conseco and spend all their time on the internet *****ing about 'em!
Supporting Runi Runi = supporting PACERS?

That kind of attitude reminds me of someone...

Jermaniac
10-18-2006, 11:22 PM
Wah, let's all fricken cry about it! Sarunas is on the team, and so is Jackson. If you don't like it, find another team!

:loser: :loser:

Back in the day we cheered for everybody. Most of which couldn't do **** on their own, but Pacers fans accepted THAT. Nowadays everybody wants to ***** and moan. Where the HELL have all the REAL Pacers fans gone? You people aren't Pacers fans, because most of you can't remember when we appreciated guys like Sarunas. All you want to do is bury the guy. Find a new team, the Pacers don't need people who never pay to see games at Conseco and spend all their time on the internet *****ing about 'em!I bet you are crying.

ICBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB Ohh my God someone get me a oxygen tank

Just
10-18-2006, 11:23 PM
Wah, let's all fricken cry about it! Sarunas is on the team, and so is Jackson. If you don't like it, find another team!

:loser: :loser:

Back in the day we cheered for everybody. Most of which couldn't do **** on their own, but Pacers fans accepted THAT. Nowadays everybody wants to ***** and moan. Where the HELL have all the REAL Pacers fans gone? You people aren't Pacers fans, because most of you can't remember when we appreciated guys like Sarunas. All you want to do is bury the guy. Find a new team, the Pacers don't need people who never pay to see games at Conseco and spend all their time on the internet *****ing about 'em!


not if we cut him

Tom White
10-18-2006, 11:23 PM
Some of you people ought to go to LA or find a new team to cheer for, Pacers fans love Sarunas! Either get on the train or find a new ride. Like it or not, the fans who pay to see them play cheer wildly for Sarunas!

Don't even pretend to tell me or anyone else to "get on the train or find a new ride". Just because you have an affection for a player, does not mean that everyone else has to follow suit. What the hell makes you think you have the right to talk to people like that? Just remember while you're waiting for that train to come in, don't fall asleep on the tracks.

Anthem
10-18-2006, 11:27 PM
Powell looked good as well. He was aggressive, played under control, and seemed both strong and fast. He had a couple of nice putbacks and follow-throughs, and didn't lose his man on D.

Maceo Baston was a mixed bag. He looked comfortable out on the court, and had a couple nice moves and a good block. But he got destroyed by Eduardo Najera... the dude took over against Baston. It was very ugly.

I hate to diss Bird, but his two big free agent signings from Europe were both outplayed today by guys without guaranteed contracts. Not a good start.

Anthem
10-18-2006, 11:28 PM
Supporting Sarunas = Supporting the Pacers? That's hilarious.

Where's Earl when you need him?

Naptown_Seth
10-18-2006, 11:29 PM
Sarunas has admitted he's not the best athlete. I like him because he shows up healthy every night ready to play. Some of you people ought to go to LA or find a new team to cheer for, Pacers fans love Sarunas! Either get on the train or find a new ride. Like it or not, the fans who pay to see them play cheer wildly for Sarunas!
Hmm, that's funny. I thought TM took my money last year, and I'm certain that I wasn't cheering for him in the 2nd half after being very impressed in the first 2 months.

I hope Runi does come around, because if he doesn't....looks like we are stuck with him anyway.
I agree. I was very hopeful this summer, but man I'm getting a sinking feeling. At least he made some shots tonight early in the game, but then you look at DA going 4-4...


Speaking of Bird Euros that are struggling, I'll continue to press the Baston cut case after he fouled out in ELEVEN minutes. Fouled out. You thought Harrison struggled with fouls, sheesh. 3 boards in 11 is nice, but he also had 3 TOs in that time.

I like Baston as an athlete and a person. He brings the right attitude to the game, but as the pre-season has gone on it seems more and more to me that he is finding himself overmatched. Marshall has shown A LOT more than Baston so far and IMO its not even close.

This is why Slick mentioned a Baston cut. Salary be damned, you have to keep the best players and Baston has been struggling way too much for a 31 year old player. This isn't some young kid like Shawne who has time to grow.

But it's the same as SarJas, would Bird take the ego hit? I hope so if it means keeping Marshall, Greene and Powell at this point. They are all young and all show just as much game.

Kstat
10-18-2006, 11:30 PM
Maceo Baston was a mixed bag. He looked comfortable out on the court, and had a couple nice moves and a good block. But he got destroyed by Eduardo Najera... the dude took over against Baston. It was very ugly.


I really hope that isn't indicative of Maceo's future in the NBA. I actually was starting to get my hopes up.

That does sound exactly like a typical Maceo day though, from what I remember. Big on the spectacular, small on production.

I hope he makes it. He was always a nice kid.

Again, to be fair, I haven't seen him in the NBA yet. I do hope that he makes the roster so I can see him play.

Anthem
10-18-2006, 11:30 PM
As for the starters, they looked fine (except for Sarunas). JO looked good but disinterested, Al looked extremely sharp, and Steven Jackson was the best Pacer on the court. He made a couple stupid mistakes, but mostly he did just fine. If he played like that all the time, and he could keep himself out of trouble off the court, I'd be happy to keep him.

AesopRockOn
10-18-2006, 11:34 PM
If you're playing worse than Anthony "AC" Carter, then you probably should be cut.

Seriously, is Sarunas that bad now? Has he regressed that much from where we thought he would be?

Because that's pretty ****ed up right there.

Naptown_Seth
10-18-2006, 11:34 PM
Anthem, interesting that you had a similar concern about Baston after seeing him live, vs me going by what I already saw and then just stats from the last couple of games. I just don't see how he's not the 16th guy right now.

And Kstat, I'm not saying that from an "I don't like him" view or anything. After FanJam I thought Marshall looked tenative and Maceo looked poised and effective, though less than Powell. But in game 1 that turned totally around. Marshall was driving the ball very effectively in game one and extremely quick to the rim. Maceo on the other hand was much more overmatched. The results and reports from the last couple of games seem to parallel that view.

Unclebuck
10-18-2006, 11:35 PM
Anthem, here is your post,

As for the starters, they looked fine (except for Sarunas). JO looked good but disinterested, Al looked extremely sharp, and Steven Jackson was the best Pacer on the court. He made a couple stupid mistakes, but mostly he did just fine. If he played like that all the time, and he could keep himself out of trouble off the court, I'd be happy to keep him.

Anthem
10-18-2006, 11:55 PM
And Kstat, I'm not saying that from an "I don't like him" view or anything. After FanJam I thought Marshall looked tenative and Maceo looked poised and effective, though less than Powell.
Yeah, that was the weird thing. Baston looked poised and effective. He looked like he belonged out there. But he got creamed by Najera. It was bizarre.

pwee31
10-19-2006, 12:00 AM
Tonight's game? That funny since the box score says that the 3rd qtr. was the only qtr. we won?!! And we got outscored the most in the 4th??? hmmm

Unclebuck
10-19-2006, 12:00 AM
Yeah, that was the weird thing. Baston looked poised and effective. He looked like he belonged out there. But he got creamed by Najera. It was bizarre.

I didn't see the game, but Najera is not a primary scorer, so I would guess that the Nuggets guards were beating the Pacers guards off the dribble and Baston had to help leaving Najera open.

Anthem
10-19-2006, 12:04 AM
Tonight's game? That funny since the box score says that the 3rd qtr. was the only qtr. we won?!! And we got outscored the most in the 4th??? hmmm
Box score is wrong. When Saras went out of the game, we were down 8.

And the entire fourth quarter was played by Snap Hunter, Flight White, Rawle Marshall, Josh Powell, and Maceo Baston. Only one of them is a lock to make the team. And they almost pulled it out... they were within 3 with a minute or so to go.

McKeyFan
10-19-2006, 12:10 AM
Runi's stat line doesn't look so bad.

9 points
3 rebounds
3-7 shooting
2-4 from 3 point range
4 assists
3 turnovers
1 steal

All this in 20 minutes.

I wasn't there, and stats can be misleading. But other than the three turnovers, it reads like a decent showing to me.

Destined4Greatness
10-19-2006, 12:12 AM
Runi's stat line doesn't look so bad.

9 points
3 rebounds
3-7 shooting
2-4 from 3 point range
4 assists
3 turnovers
1 steal

All this in 20 minutes.

I wasn't there, and stats can be misleading. But other than the three turnovers, it reads like a decent showing to me.

You can pile up decent stats and still be a liability. What about his patented pass it into a guy who is double teamed and have him lose the ball for you. Or my favorite pass up the wide open shot with 2 secs left on the clock.

Naptown_Seth
10-19-2006, 12:12 AM
Tonight's game? That funny since the box score says that the 3rd qtr. was the only qtr. we won?!! And we got outscored the most in the 4th??? hmmm
From the AP recap

Denver led 54-51 at the half and was 10 points ahead midway through the third quarter
I'll see your hmmm and raise you an "Anthem puts it in your face"



Also, via the game thread we know that SarJas scored at least 8 of his points in the first half, so Anthem did not witness a single SarJas FG make. Considering that JO was a starter but didn't play in the 2nd half, maybe it was the change of supporting cast that hurt Cabbages in the 3rd (not that this should be an excuse for actually struggling vs not playing as well). Perhaps the play by play will get loaded by tomorrow, if one was even properly kept for e-transfer.

Anthem
10-19-2006, 01:00 AM
Considering that JO was a starter but didn't play in the 2nd half,
Yes he did. In fact, we went with a horrific Foster-JO-Al lineup for most of the third quarter. JO had a good jumpshot, a move in the paint, and a killer block into the stands.

Alpolloloco
10-19-2006, 01:03 AM
And only Sarunas gets the blame for the 3rd quarter fall?

Bball
10-19-2006, 01:03 AM
and a killer block into the stands.

Those look great... unfortunately the other team gets the ball back when you send it into the stands (also known as: Out of bounds). :(

-Bball

Hicks
10-19-2006, 06:53 AM
Cut Sarunas? I can tell who's first in line for "Whipping Boy 2007". On deck is Al Harrington, with Stephen Jackson close behind.

owl
10-19-2006, 07:04 AM
Regardless of what side you are on in the Runi wars, this team has a
big problem at the point guard spot. None of the players currently on the team are great point guards and all of them are a defensive liability.

Robertmto
10-19-2006, 08:00 AM
Runi's stat line doesn't look so bad.

9 points
3 rebounds
3-7 shooting
2-4 from 3 point range
4 assists
3 turnovers
1 steal

All this in 20 minutes.

I wasn't there, and stats can be misleading. But other than the three turnovers, it reads like a decent showing to me.

Yea, when a PG's TO/A ratio is damn near 1:1 he has a great stat line. :rolleyes:

JBones19
10-19-2006, 08:48 AM
I wonder if there is anyone on this board that likes Stephen Jackson AND Runi. Seems like it's pretty much you like one or the other, then take the time to whine about the one you don't like and come up with as many ways possible to have that guy cut or traded.

I'm speaking generally and to no one in particular here, just an observation.

Unclebuck
10-19-2006, 09:27 AM
Yes he did. In fact, we went with a horrific Foster-JO-Al lineup for most of the third quarter. JO had a good jumpshot, a move in the paint, and a killer block into the stands.

That was the starting frontline

Naptown_Seth
10-19-2006, 09:35 AM
Yes he did. In fact, we went with a horrific Foster-JO-Al lineup for most of the third quarter. JO had a good jumpshot, a move in the paint, and a killer block into the stands.
Sorry, the AP recap said JO didn't play the 2nd half because of a sore hamstring which is why I said it.

Looks like we will get no official PxP from this one, and frankly the AP recap didn't get any better overnight, I was hoping to see an expanded version posted today. Oh well, heck with it, most of us get to see them in action on FoxIN tonight.



Robertmo is right, 1.33 A/TO for a PG is pretty poor. People complain about Jack being a ball hog and he put up a 1.33 A/TO ratio last season as a SG/SF.


I actually want to like both Jack and SarJas. Both do things that I really like on the court. My comments about either are based only on results...well until I see someone taking blah results and calling the player a superstar. That rarely happens with Jack so I'm rarely forced to take the stance of ripping into his flaws, but there certainly are plenty to complain about.

I have to say that right now Jack is closer to earning his paycheck than SarJas is to earning his own.

Robertmto
10-19-2006, 09:46 AM
I didn't listen to the game, but was Saras pressed at all?

Alpolloloco
10-19-2006, 09:49 AM
I wonder if there is anyone on this board that likes Stephen Jackson AND Runi. Seems like it's pretty much you like one or the other, then take the time to whine about the one you don't like and come up with as many ways possible to have that guy cut or traded.

I'm speaking generally and to no one in particular here, just an observation.

You might know I like Sarunas a lot and if you want the truth, here it is ..... I like Jackson too





on another team! :-p

McKeyFan
10-19-2006, 09:54 AM
Yea, when a PG's TO/A ratio is damn near 1:1 he has a great stat line. :rolleyes:

Try to be a little evenhanded, jeez.

I pointed out that the turnovers were a problem, and I didn't say the stat line was great. I said it "didn't look so bad."

Robertmto
10-19-2006, 10:05 AM
Try to be a little evenhanded, jeez.

I pointed out that the turnovers were a problem, and I didn't say the stat line was great. I said it "didn't look so bad."

9 points in 20 minutes against reserves isn't all that good either. Especially when he will be the starter once Tins goes down. :eek:

Alpolloloco
10-19-2006, 10:09 AM
9 points in 20 minutes against reserves isn't all that good either. Especially when he will be the starter once Tins goes down. :eek:

Those 9 points almost all came as a starter, and he wasn't playing against the reserves.

Stop your horrendous hating on this player and try not to be a jackass once in a while!

Robertmto
10-19-2006, 10:15 AM
Those 9 points almost all came as a starter, and he wasn't playing against the reserves.

Stop your horrendous hating on this player and try not to be a jackass once in a while!

Thats even better, he COULDN'T score against the reserves. :laugh:

He honestly needs to learn how to handle the ball and he can become a productive part of the team. Until then....

Alpolloloco
10-19-2006, 10:38 AM
Thats even better, he COULDN'T score against the reserves. :laugh:

He honestly needs to learn how to handle the ball and he can become a productive part of the team. Until then....

Well look here, he was a stud PG against your Wizards and held Arenas to a very low percentage.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=750 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top><SCRIPT src="http://us.js2.yimg.com/us.js.yimg.com/lib/common/utils/event_1.0.0.js"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="http://us.js2.yimg.com/us.js.yimg.com/lib/common/utils/connect_1.1.1.js"></SCRIPT><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD height=7><SPACER height="1" width="1" type="block"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=750 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width=560><SCRIPT language=JavaScript> var refreshFlag = false </SCRIPT><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD height=7></TD></TR><TR><TD class=yspsctnhdln></TD></TR><TR><TD height=7></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR align=middle><TD>http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nba/teams/1/80x60/ind.gif (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/ind)</TD><TD width=370><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=ysptblbdr2><TABLE class=ysptblclbg3 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysptblbdr2><TD colSpan=15 height=1></TD></TR><TR align=middle bgColor=#dedec6><TD class=ysptblbdr2 width=1 rowSpan=5></TD><TD width=10 height=18> </TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspwhitebg width=1 rowSpan=5></TD><TD class=yspscores width=25>1</TD><TD class=yspwhitebg width=1 rowSpan=5></TD><TD class=yspscores width=25>2</TD><TD class=yspwhitebg width=1 rowSpan=5></TD><TD class=yspscores width=25>3</TD><TD class=yspwhitebg width=1 rowSpan=5></TD><TD class=yspscores width=25>4</TD><TD class=yspwhitebg width=1 rowSpan=5></TD><TD class=yspscores align=right width=35>Total</TD><TD class=yspscores width=65></TD><TD class=ysptblbdr2 width=1 rowSpan=5></TD></TR><TR class=yspwhitebg><TD colSpan=13 height=1></TD></TR><TR class=ysptblclbg5 align=middle><TD width=10 height=23>http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/gr/or_arrow.gif</TD><TD class=yspscores align=left>Indiana (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/ind) </TD><TD class=yspscores>22</TD><TD class=yspscores>22</TD><TD class=yspscores>22</TD><TD class=yspscores>33</TD><TD class=ysptblclbg6 align=right>99 </TD><TD class=ysptblclbg6 align=right>Final </TD></TR><TR class=yspwhitebg><TD colSpan=2></TD><TD colSpan=8 height=1></TD><TD class=ysptblclbg6 colSpan=2></TD></TR><TR class=ysptblclbg5 align=middle><TD width=10 height=23></TD><TD class=yspscores align=left>Washington (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/was) </TD><TD class=yspscores>30</TD><TD class=yspscores>23</TD><TD class=yspscores>19</TD><TD class=yspscores>21</TD><TD class=ysptblclbg6 align=right>93 </TD><TD class=ysptblclbg6 align=right> </TD></TR><TR class=ysptblbdr2><TD colSpan=15 height=1></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD>http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/us/sp/v/nba/teams/1/80x60/was.gif (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/was)</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3 height=7></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD height=7></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=yspsctbg><TD class=ysptblhdr colSpan=13 height=18> Indiana </TD></TR><TR class=ysptblthbody1 align=right><TD class=yspdetailttl align=left width="18%" height=18> Name</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Min</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">FG</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">3Pt</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">FT</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">Off</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Reb</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Ast</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">TO</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Stl</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Blk</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">PF</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">Pts </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> P. Stojakovic (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3119)</TD><TD>38</TD><TD>5-16</TD><TD>0-4</TD><TD>9-9</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>19 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> J. Foster (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3344)</TD><TD>24</TD><TD>2-4</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>2-2</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>13</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>6 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> S. Pollard (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3189)</TD><TD>20</TD><TD>2-6</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>4 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> S. Jackson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3210)</TD><TD>37</TD><TD>10-19</TD><TD>3-6</TD><TD>3-3</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>26 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> S. Jasikevicius (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3996)</TD><TD>36</TD><TD>5-8</TD><TD>2-2</TD><TD>2-2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>14 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> F. Jones (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3612)</TD><TD>31</TD><TD>4-14</TD><TD>0-3</TD><TD>6-6</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>14 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> D. Granger (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3943)</TD><TD>15</TD><TD>2-3</TD><TD>0-1</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>4 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> D. Harrison (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3846)</TD><TD>22</TD><TD>4-4</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>4-4</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>12 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> E. Gill (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3471)</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>0-6</TD><TD>0-3</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=middle><TD align=left> J. O'Neal (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3120)</TD><TD colSpan=12>DNP - Coach's Decision</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=middle><TD align=left> A. Croshere (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3182)</TD><TD colSpan=12>DNP - Concussion</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=middle><TD align=left> A. Johnson (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3207)</TD><TD colSpan=12>DNP - Stomach Virus</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=middle><TD align=left> J. Tinsley (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3528)</TD><TD colSpan=12>DNP - Sore Right Elbow</TD></TR><TR class=ysptblbdr3><TD colSpan=13 height=1></TD></TR><TR class=ysptblclbg5 align=right><TD align=left height=18> Totals</TD><TD>232</TD><TD>34-80</TD><TD>5-19</TD><TD>26-26</TD><TD>13</TD><TD>48</TD><TD>19</TD><TD>15</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>25</TD><TD>99 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left height=18> Percentages:</TD><TD> </TD><TD>.425</TD><TD>.263</TD><TD>1.000</TD><TD> </TD><TD align=left colSpan=7>Team Rebounds: 6 </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD height=7></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=yspsctbg><TD class=ysptblhdr colSpan=13 height=18> Washington </TD></TR><TR class=ysptblthbody1 align=right><TD class=yspdetailttl align=left width="18%" height=18> Name</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Min</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">FG</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">3Pt</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">FT</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">Off</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Reb</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Ast</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">TO</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Stl</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">Blk</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="6%">PF</TD><TD class=yspdetailttl width="8%">Pts </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> C. Butler (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3608)</TD><TD>36</TD><TD>3-14</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>6 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> A. Jamison (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3247)</TD><TD>41</TD><TD>8-17</TD><TD>1-6</TD><TD>3-5</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>12</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>20 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> B. Haywood (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3532)</TD><TD>18</TD><TD>5-9</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>10 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> J. Jeffries (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3609)</TD><TD>27</TD><TD>2-5</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>2-4</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>6 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> G. Arenas (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3540)</TD><TD>43</TD><TD>8-24</TD><TD>1-8</TD><TD>11-13</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>28 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> A. Daniels (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3175)</TD><TD>29</TD><TD>4-9</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>3-4</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>11 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> M. Ruffin (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3355)</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>0 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=right><TD align=left> E. Thomas (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3411)</TD><TD>21</TD><TD>3-4</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0-5</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>6 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=right><TD align=left> D. Taylor (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3998)</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>3-4</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0-0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>6 </TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=middle><TD align=left> C. Booth (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3358)</TD><TD colSpan=12>DNP - Coach's Decision</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=middle><TD align=left> J. Hayes (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3713)</TD><TD colSpan=12>DNP - Coach's Decision</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=middle><TD align=left> A. Storey (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3903)</TD><TD colSpan=12>DNP - Coach's Decision</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow1 align=middle><TD align=left> B. Thomas (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3897)</TD><TD colSpan=12>DNP - Coach's Decision</TD></TR><TR class=ysprow2 align=middle><TD align=left> A. Blatche (http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3975)</TD><TD colSpan=12>DNP - Flu Like Symptoms</TD></TR><TR class=ysptblbdr3><TD colSpan=13 height=1></TD></TR><TR class=ysptblclbg5 align=right><TD align=left height=18> Totals</TD><TD>227</TD><TD>36-86</TD><TD>2-14</TD><TD>19-31</TD><TD>18</TD><TD>44</TD><TD>19</TD><TD>12</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>20</TD><TD>93 </TD></TR><TR align=right><TD align=left height=18> Percentages:</TD><TD> </TD><TD>.419</TD><TD>.143</TD><TD>.613</TD><TD> </TD><TD align=left colSpan=7>Team Rebounds: 10</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Who's the boss now!

And look at his TO/A ratio compared to Arenas.

Eat your heart out!
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Unclebuck
10-19-2006, 10:44 AM
Saruniac - I remember watching that game where Saras started against the Wizards (Saras had a very good game)but Saras did not guard Arenas. Jackson started on him and then Freddie played him a lot. Notice how many minutes Jones played. Sure there were a few times when Saras picked up Gilbert, but that was only in transition or on a forced switch.

Robobtowncolt
10-19-2006, 10:47 AM
I was AT the game where Sarunas started against the Wizards, and can vouch that Sarunas had nothing to do with defending Arenas, or anyone else, that game.

Alpolloloco
10-19-2006, 10:49 AM
UncleBuck, then it looks he guarded Caron Butler for most of the time and Caron also shot a low percentage. I'm not pretending that this is thanks to Sarunas defensive abilities (yes I know he plays matador defense) but he held his own fine against Robertmo's team.

grace
10-19-2006, 01:00 PM
Like it or not, the fans who pay to see them play cheer wildly for Sarunas!

That must be why I stopped getting season tickets.

Fireball Kid
10-19-2006, 01:07 PM
This is the new team...........same as the old team.

pwee31
10-19-2006, 02:01 PM
From the AP recap

I'll see your hmmm and raise you an "Anthem puts it in your face"



Also, via the game thread we know that SarJas scored at least 8 of his points in the first half, so Anthem did not witness a single SarJas FG make. Considering that JO was a starter but didn't play in the 2nd half, maybe it was the change of supporting cast that hurt Cabbages in the 3rd (not that this should be an excuse for actually struggling vs not playing as well). Perhaps the play by play will get loaded by tomorrow, if one was even properly kept for e-transfer.


He put it in my face? He said Saras played the 3rd which was our worse qtr and Snap played better in the 4th. I simply read the box score which said the 4th qtr was the worse ( the last 3 mins are still the 4th).

Sarunas:
20 mins
9 pts.
4 ast.
3 reb.
1 stl.
3 TO's

Snap:
16 mins
8 pts.
0 ast.
2 reb.
0 stl.
4 TO's

But clearly Snap played better! Granted I didn't see the game aand stats aren't everything, but c'mon

Since86
10-19-2006, 02:21 PM
Stats don't take into account defense, unless it's steals, and it doesn't take into account not getting along with your teammates.

Both of those aspects of the game, he mentioned in his post. But keep dwelling on the one part that you can try to defend with numbers, instead of the other two. :rolleyes:

For feeling so positive during the offseason, I'm quickly becoming very cynical and easily irritated. I just might not make it this season, without an extended break.

Naptown_Seth
10-19-2006, 02:53 PM
pwee,

By a literal sense from Anthem's first post you could say that it was impossible for the team to have been better in the 4th than the 3rd, specifically in relation to SarJas playing PG.

But as I read it and then compared with the box score I interpreted it to be not literally the entire 3rd and then the entire 4th. I assumed Anthem was roughing it from memory and emotional experience, where a fan is more in touch with the actual action (getting beat every trip, start winning most trips) than exactly when that change took place. He sat there most of the 3rd watching things get worse and worse with SarJas, didn't see him scoring in the first half, and saw a sudden change as the team charged back after he went out after playing most of the 3rd.


The only reason I came at you so hard was the "hmmm" which to me sounded like "somebody's wrong, and it sounds like it's Anthem". That's not the same as just asking with the understanding that his recap might not be a to-the-letter perfect recounting of the half.

Maybe you didn't mean it that way, and if that's the case then I'm sorry. But it does appear that his general opinion of the 2nd half matches what happened. They started the 3rd very poorly, salvaged it at the end and into the early 4th, and then probably went deep into the bench like they have been and ended up losing the quarter.

That's consistant with the most of the pre-season, playing even all night until the last 6-7 minutes of the game with basically an all-borderline squad on the floor, and which point a 2 point game exploded into a 16 point game.



But clearly Snap played better! Granted I didn't see the game aand stats aren't everything, but c'mon
Take away AT LEAST 8 points, 1 rebound and 1 assist (and I'll bet more than that) from SarJas stats because those all came before Anthem set foot in the arena, which he openly admitted.

If Cabbages ran out 1 pt, 1 ast, 1 reb and 2 TOs (seems roughly correct based on the PD game thread) in the 3rd and was getting killed on defense then Anthem's report is correct, and the comparison to Snap doesn't look so wrong. It's not like he said Snap played a good game, he just compared the results he saw with SarJas and Snap on the floor in the 2nd half.

There's no "hmmm" to that, no secret mission. Maybe if he had seen the first half he would have reported it differently, or perhaps said "SarJas started great but then went to crap in the 3rd".

pwee31
10-19-2006, 02:53 PM
Stats don't take into account defense, unless it's steals, and it doesn't take into account not getting along with your teammates.

Both of those aspects of the game, he mentioned in his post. But keep dwelling on the one part that you can try to defend with numbers, instead of the other two. :rolleyes:

For feeling so positive during the offseason, I'm quickly becoming very cynical and easily irritated. I just might not make it this season, without an extended break.


Well everyone and there mom knows he's a defense liabilty, they knew that when they brought him here. Like I said I didn't see the game, so I don't know about the not getting along with his teammates, if that's the case, sounds like he's becoming a Pacer if ya ask me

Naptown_Seth
10-19-2006, 03:02 PM
Plus, let me repeat the bottom line on this debate that I mentioned on page 2...

Oh well, heck with it, most of us get to see them in action on FoxIN tonight.
So it won't just be Anthem's word and a basic box score, mediocre recap and no play by play after tonight's game.

I'll be more interested to see the Baston-Marshall efforts since I doubt SarJas could play his way off the team at this point.

Robertmto
10-19-2006, 03:17 PM
Saruniac - I remember watching that game where Saras started against the Wizards (Saras had a very good game)but Saras did not guard Arenas. Jackson started on him and then Freddie played him a lot. Notice how many minutes Jones played. Sure there were a few times when Saras picked up Gilbert, but that was only in transition or on a forced switch.

correct


I was AT the game where Sarunas started against the Wizards, and can vouch that Sarunas had nothing to do with defending Arenas, or anyone else, that game.

correct


UncleBuck, then it looks he guarded Caron Butler for most of the time and Caron also shot a low percentage. I'm not pretending that this is thanks to Sarunas defensive abilities (yes I know he plays matador defense) but he held his own fine against Robertmo's team.

WRONG. They had him trying to defend JJ because he's our worst offensive wing threat. Jax and Freddie switched off between Caron, Gilbert and AD.

Thanks for trying tho.

pwee31
10-19-2006, 03:20 PM
pwee,

By a literal sense from Anthem's first post you could say that it was impossible for the team to have been better in the 4th than the 3rd, specifically in relation to SarJas playing PG.

But as I read it and then compared with the box score I interpreted it to be not literally the entire 3rd and then the entire 4th. I assumed Anthem was roughing it from memory and emotional experience, where a fan is more in touch with the actual action (getting beat every trip, start winning most trips) than exactly when that change took place. He sat there most of the 3rd watching things get worse and worse with SarJas, didn't see him scoring in the first half, and saw a sudden change as the team charged back after he went out after playing most of the 3rd.


The only reason I came at you so hard was the "hmmm" which to me sounded like "somebody's wrong, and it sounds like it's Anthem". That's not the same as just asking with the understanding that his recap might not be a to-the-letter perfect recounting of the half.

Maybe you didn't mean it that way, and if that's the case then I'm sorry. But it does appear that his general opinion of the 2nd half matches what happened. They started the 3rd very poorly, salvaged it at the end and into the early 4th, and then probably went deep into the bench like they have been and ended up losing the quarter.

That's consistant with the most of the pre-season, playing even all night until the last 6-7 minutes of the game with basically an all-borderline squad on the floor, and which point a 2 point game exploded into a 16 point game.



Take away AT LEAST 8 points, 1 rebound and 1 assist (and I'll bet more than that) from SarJas stats because those all came before Anthem set foot in the arena, which he openly admitted.

If Cabbages ran out 1 pt, 1 ast, 1 reb and 2 TOs (seems roughly correct based on the PD game thread) in the 3rd and was getting killed on defense then Anthem's report is correct, and the comparison to Snap doesn't look so wrong. It's not like he said Snap played a good game, he just compared the results he saw with SarJas and Snap on the floor in the 2nd half.

There's no "hmmm" to that, no secret mission. Maybe if he had seen the first half he would have reported it differently, or perhaps said "SarJas started great but then went to crap in the 3rd".


It's cool! I just don't understand some of the fans jumping off the Sarunas bandwagon? He had a good start to his rookie year, and hit a wall later in the season. Now we're a few games into the preseason and some seem disappointed in him already, which I don't understand.

And sorry bout the "hmmm" it wasn't meant to mean Anthem was wrong, it was more confusion on me not knowing more then what I knew.

brichard
10-19-2006, 09:35 PM
I would like to throw out my :twocents: on Saras

1. People do cheer for him. I did go to the first Pre-season game (Saw Hicks who didn't recognize me ;)) and he was cheered.

2. I actually like Saras. I see his videos playing for Macabi, I like the fact that at least in the Euroleague he could pass, and he has shown the ability to hit the long ball. A healthy PG who can pass and can hit long shots would be awesome. We've had a number of defensive liabilities at the PG spot (see Tinsley and Mark Jackson) for years, but they each brought other things to the game.

3. That being said, I watch him and I feel as duped as Sally in the Pumpkin patch in the Great Pumpkin. I swear it is just that Jon Bender feeling. You hear all the positives, but they just can't seem to work themselves out. Once in awhile you'll see a flash of what things could be, and then it just dissipates. We as Pacer fans have seen too much of this, so you will have to understand why we are so cynnical.

I hope he plays better, but based on what I've seen, I am not optimistic. Perhaps when and if we can get the running thing going he will flow, but I've just not seen it yet.

Kegboy
10-19-2006, 10:07 PM
:drama:

And, for the record, Eddie Gill guarded Arenas more than Cabbage did. Actually D'd him up pretty good a couple times.

Pacesetter
10-19-2006, 11:59 PM
Hey boys and girls, Sarunas got another round of applause tonight when he was inserted into the game. More than any other player on the court. So please, pontificate some more about who we should cut.

It's not always about numbers, ask Ron Artest!

Destined4Greatness
10-20-2006, 12:11 AM
<B>Hey boys and girls, Sarunas got another round of applause tonight when he was inserted into the game.</B> More than any other player on the court. So please, pontificate some more about who we should cut.

It's not always about numbers, ask Ron Artest!

Never Mind that it was the Bobcats Bench.

Anthem
10-20-2006, 12:17 AM
Well everyone and there mom knows he's a defense liabilty, they knew that when they brought him here. Like I said I didn't see the game, so I don't know about the not getting along with his teammates, if that's the case, sounds like he's becoming a Pacer if ya ask me
Right, but I knew what was coming on defense and was ready for it. I wasn't upset with his defense. It wasn't good, but I expected it.

I was shocked, though, at his inability to initiate the offense against pressure. I've never been that close to an NBA game (3rd row from the floor) and it was totally different. When Snap Hunter was on offense, he was attacking. When Sarunas was on offense, he always seemed like he was defending.

Like I said, I really really want to believe in Sarunas. But I can't even say how disappointing his second-half performance was.

Anthem
10-20-2006, 12:19 AM
That was the starting frontline
Foster - JO - Harrington is our starting frontline?

I hate it.

Anthem
10-20-2006, 12:20 AM
And only Sarunas gets the blame for the 3rd quarter fall?
From my vantage point, Sarunas was the worst player on the court for most of the third quarter.

Pacesetter
10-20-2006, 12:27 AM
From my vantage point, Sarunas was the worst player on the court for most of the third quarter.

From your vantage point, eh? :D

Anthem
10-20-2006, 09:16 AM
From your vantage point, eh? :D
Best seats in my life.

http://static.flickr.com/112/274576399_ceebca6755.jpg

Kestas
10-20-2006, 12:36 PM
I hope he is cut.

can he be traded somehow? I'm starting to lose hope with this club (but I sincerely hope Saras isn't, though it's harder and harder to see why shouldn't he..)

grace
10-20-2006, 12:37 PM
Here's my opinion on why a majority of the people cheer wildly for Cabbage:

These people worship as at the feet of Larry Bird and because Cabbage is his pet project they cheer for him regardless of how he performs on the court.





:duck:
:zip:

Alpolloloco
10-20-2006, 12:46 PM
Here's my opinion on why a majority of the people cheer wildly for Cabbage:

These people worship as at the feet of Larry Bird and because Cabbage is his pet project they cheer for him regardless of how he performs on the court.





:duck:
:zip:

wrong.

The only pet project the Pacers had is (gladly) gone, and we got 3 nice players for him.

Destined4Greatness
10-20-2006, 12:50 PM
wrong.

The only pet project the Pacers had is (gladly) gone, and we got 3 nice players for him.

I think you are mistaken, the pet project is the one that sits on the bench where he belongs, and the Awesome vet who well was awesome is the one that drops 40 points in the playoffs.

NaptownBound
10-20-2006, 12:54 PM
at the end of the day.. he's not a good solid NBA point guard.
he's just not.

he may be excellent in Euroleague and International play, but in the NBA he's not a good point guard.
maybe he'll prove last year was an abberration, but i'm betting it's not.

grace
10-20-2006, 12:57 PM
wrong.

The only pet project the Pacers had is (gladly) gone, and we got 3 nice players for him.

:huh:

Anthem
10-20-2006, 01:09 PM
can he be traded somehow? I'm starting to lose hope with this club (but I sincerely hope Saras isn't, though it's harder and harder to see why shouldn't he..)
Look, I'd love nothing better than for Saras to suddenly become a great NBA point guard. But I'm telling you he looked overmatched by ANTHONY CARTER in Wednesday's game. Rick used him "properly"... played him with the starters, gave him full reign, etc. And Saras did not look good.

I know he's the best PG in Europe. But if we traded him to the Nuggets, he'd be the fourth-best PG on their team, at best. And it's not like they have an amazing PG rotation.

It's not the club you should lose faith with. It's Sarunas.

Alpolloloco
10-20-2006, 01:23 PM
Look, I'd love nothing better than for Saras to suddenly become a great NBA point guard. But I'm telling you he looked overmatched by ANTHONY CARTER in Wednesday's game. Rick used him "properly"... played him with the starters, gave him full reign, etc. And Saras did not look good.

I know he's the best PG in Europe. But if we traded him to the Nuggets, he'd be the fourth-best PG on their team, at best. And it's not like they have an amazing PG rotation.

It's not the club you should lose faith with. It's Sarunas.

Well I'm certainly not losing faith in either Saunas, the club or the fans in Conseco but I'm absolutely losing faith in some posters on this forum!

grace
10-20-2006, 01:27 PM
Well I'm certainly not losing faith in either Saunas, the club or the fans in Conseco but I'm absolutely losing faith in some posters on this forum!

Before you leave would you please tell me what "The only pet project the Pacers had is (gladly) gone, and we got 3 nice players for him" is. Seriously, I have no idea who or what you're talking about.

Alpolloloco
10-20-2006, 01:31 PM
That would be our turtle PG of last year, you know the one with no neck.

p.s. I will not leave because some posters dislike Sarunas, it's too much fun too watch their disbelieve as Sarunas will be crowned MVP after he made the winning 3pointer in the Finals!

grace
10-20-2006, 01:35 PM
That would be our turtle PG of last year, you know the one with no neck.

p.s. I will not leave because some posters dislike Sarunas, it's too much fun too watch their disbelieve as Sarunas will be crowned MVP after he made the winning 3pointer in the Finals!

Stay. Go. Makes no difference to me.
:trashshake:

SycamoreKen
10-20-2006, 01:37 PM
wrong.

The only pet project the Pacers had is (gladly) gone, and we got 3 nice players for him.


:huh:


Before you leave would you please tell me what "The only pet project the Pacers had is (gladly) gone, and we got 3 nice players for him" is. Seriously, I have no idea who or what you're talking about.

I agree. I thought we only got 2 players for Artest, Al and Edwards.

grace
10-20-2006, 01:43 PM
I agree. I thought we only got 2 players for Artest, Al and Edwards.

He seems to think the Pacers used to have a turtle playing for them. I might be wrong but don't turtles eat cabbage for lunch?

AesopRockOn
10-20-2006, 01:50 PM
^ Clever ;)

That guy does nothing but make senseless comments. I'm not going to judge till I actually see a game, which won't be for a while considering the schedule for TV. At this point though, Saras seems pretty useless on the court no matter how useful he sounded theoretically. Why wouldn't he work on his handles during the offseason? It just doesn't make any sense...unless...he was the one who dropped the duke...

Kstat
10-20-2006, 01:50 PM
Ah, fanboys....the chirping canaries in the mineshaft of life.....

Naptown_Seth
10-20-2006, 03:15 PM
He seems to think the Pacers used to have a turtle playing for them. I might be wrong but don't turtles eat cabbage for lunch?
I watched it happen from Jan to May last year. But maybe that was a mutant turtle of some sort. Looked like Beetlejuice to me, neither youthful nor skilled in the martial arts. ;)




Best seats in my life.
Hey, you need to take that over to the WIBC thread that turned into a sitting low vs sitting high discussion. I want to hear your "it was so much better and you could really see the game unfold better" testimony.

If you didn't feel that way then keep it to yourself. ;)

Naptown_Seth
10-20-2006, 03:24 PM
It's cool! I just don't understand some of the fans jumping off the Sarunas bandwagon? He had a good start to his rookie year, and hit a wall later in the season. Now we're a few games into the preseason and some seem disappointed in him already, which I don't understand.

And sorry bout the "hmmm" it wasn't meant to mean Anthem was wrong, it was more confusion on me not knowing more then what I knew.
:cool:

That's how half this crap gets heated, just misunderstanding due thanks to being online instead of in-person. Admittedly I came back pretty cocky, especially considering that I'm not Dat Dude.


I guess I'm off the wagon with him a little, but it happened before this preseason. I was hoping to see the improvements he needed to make, and apart from some improved team defense I honestly don't see a single thing better about his game.

Bobcats didn't pressure him so we didn't see that effect, but then they didn't trap or pressure much all night. A few times on Tinsley which he easily passed out of and upcourt, but otherwise nothing.

We watched Gill and AJ get killed on this 2 years ago, and then SarJas starting around late December. It's very frustrating. And with SarJas there are several posters who joined just to support him (which is fine) but now take it to a level of blind faith and denial of the results. That amps up the attitude some posters take when debating his ability.

You don't see anyone jocking up James White after the last few games, or even Shawne Williams other than to say "they are young, give them a few years". If SarJas was 23-24 I'd be a lot more comfortable with where he is at.

And as for the improvement or lack of, the rumblings about Harrison not apparently improving over last year have also been going on. Flaws are fine, but fans need to see guys fixing those flaws over the summer, at least some sort of improvement in a few areas.

Kestas
10-21-2006, 06:14 AM
Look, I'd love nothing better than for Saras to suddenly become a great NBA point guard. But I'm telling you he looked overmatched by ANTHONY CARTER in Wednesday's game. Rick used him "properly"... played him with the starters, gave him full reign, etc. And Saras did not look good.

I know he's the best PG in Europe. But if we traded him to the Nuggets, he'd be the fourth-best PG on their team, at best. And it's not like they have an amazing PG rotation.

It's not the club you should lose faith with. It's Sarunas.

Look, I asked you a simple question, which, I believe, you're pretty quallified to have a guess at. I certainly did not ask you to repeat your anti-Saras opinion, that I still find very flawed and superficial no matter how many time you repeat it. let's keep our opinions to ourselves for just a moment.. I could invite you to the forums where you'd be totally alone with your opinion regarding Saras, but what's the freaking point?
let's just have a go at a simple question: can he be trade or not? do you see it happening in the nearest future or not?

able
10-21-2006, 07:36 AM
He can be traded, every player on a roster can.

He will not be traded (and that's not for lack of trying) because there are no takers.
I'm pretty sure he'd be gone if there were.

Anthem
10-21-2006, 09:21 AM
Look, I asked you a simple question, which, I believe, you're pretty quallified to have a guess at. I certainly did not ask you to repeat your anti-Saras opinion, that I still find very flawed and superficial no matter how many time you repeat it. let's keep our opinions to ourselves for just a moment.. I could invite you to the forums where you'd be totally alone with your opinion regarding Saras, but what's the freaking point?
let's just have a go at a simple question: can he be trade or not? do you see it happening in the nearest future or not?
I'm sure there are places where Saras is worshipped, but those people aren't basing it on anything he's shown in the NBA.

To answer your question, yes. I think it's possible that he could be traded. Another team might think that they could get more out of him. I just don't think he will do much better anywhere else. Bringing the ball up the floor and initiating the offense is a necessary skill for every point guard. If you can't do that, you have to be a brilliant defender.

I answered yours, now please answer mine. Can you think of a backcourt in the NBA where Saras would be a starter? Would any team look at Saras and say "He would upgrade our starting backcourt?"

Pacesetter
10-21-2006, 12:09 PM
Best seats in my life.

http://static.flickr.com/112/274576399_ceebca6755.jpg

So you took a picture of them. :D Congrats!

Seed
10-21-2006, 01:53 PM
This thread is as low as it gets.

SycamoreKen
10-21-2006, 04:17 PM
This thread is as low as it gets.

You haven't been around long have you? Of course seeing how much stuff the mods have cleaned out it isn't pretty.

Kestas
10-22-2006, 09:34 AM
I answered yours, now please answer mine. Can you think of a backcourt in the NBA where Saras would be a starter? Would any team look at Saras and say "He would upgrade our starting backcourt?"

I hope so, yes. but I'm not quallified enough to guess which team(s) would that be.

edit: Saras was a starter for the Pacers for some time last season, btw.

Robertmto
10-22-2006, 10:36 AM
I hope so, yes. but I'm not quallified enough to guess which team(s) would that be.

For the record it's none (0)

And could that be because ur not a fan of the NBA, but of SARAS?

Naptown_Seth
10-22-2006, 11:14 AM
For the record it's none (0)

And could that be because ur not a fan of the NBA, but of SARAS?
This is the only reason Pacers fans get so spun up on the "Sarunas is king" crap around here. Too many claim to watch the NBA but aren't really familiar with it outside the highest profile teams and games.

I doubt any Pacers fans are happy to find themselves complaining about Cabbages now. I was very excited to have him join the team, but he's got to be able to meet those expectations. We were looking for a guy that could take over a game and perhaps push Tinsley for a starting role. We weren't looking for another PG we could rip into for getting his pocket picked 3 times a game right off his advancement dribble. We had Gill already.

We're mad because we are disappointed and because some fanboys seem unphased by the results over the last 10 months.

Kestas
10-22-2006, 11:33 AM
For the record it's none (0)


why should your guess be better than mine? :rolleyes:

Jermaniac
10-22-2006, 11:37 AM
Because he isnt a Sarunas homer? And maybe he watches the NBA and not just Sarunas

Robertmto
10-22-2006, 11:41 AM
why should your guess be better than mine? :rolleyes:


Because he isnt a Sarunas homer? And maybe he watches the NBA and not just Sarunas

exactly.

Robertmto
10-22-2006, 11:53 AM
Team Owner: We need to trade for a new point guard.

Coach: Yea.

Team Owner: But I want a PG that can't handle the ball.

Coach: Wha huh?

Team Owner: And maybe one that can't shoot, but he will score at least 13 points if we let him shoot 20 times.

Coach: Ummm we already have...

Team Owner: And I don't think on ball defense is neccessary either.

Coach: There's no one in the NBA like that. Why would anybody have a player like that on their roster?!

Team Owner: Yea that last piece to the puzzle in a Point Guard that can't handle a press, has horrible shooting, he must be aging, and does no look passes into a double team in the post.

Coach: There's no wa....

Team Owner: I've got it!!! We will win the NBA title as soon as we acquire Sarunas Jasikevicius.

Coach: My resignation papers will be on your desk Monday.

Team Owner: WHAT??? Our message boards will skyrocket in popularity. Sure our ticket sales will go down, no extra merchandise will be sold unless we make Saras shirts, but hey we will have 5 or 6 new fans. Well not really fans, but more ppl will watch our games illegally on the internet!!

Coach: I need to find a new job, I'll call Zeke. Mabe he'll le me play 2 guard for him. But look on the bright side, you'll have Oden next year.

Team Owner: Who needs Greg Oden? We have Sarunas!!

grace
10-22-2006, 12:11 PM
Team Owner: We need to trade for a new point guard.

Coach: Yea.

Team Owner: But I want a PG that can't handle the ball.

Coach: Wha huh?

Team Owner: And maybe one that can't shoot, but he will score at least 13 points if we let him shoot 20 times.

Coach: Ummm we already have...

Team Owner: And I don't think on ball defense is neccessary either.

Coach: There's no one in the NBA like that. Why would anybody have a player like that on their roster?!

Team Owner: Yea that last piece to the puzzle in a Point Guard that can't handle a press, has horrible shooting, he must be aging, and does no look passes into a double team in the post.

Coach: There's no wa....

Team Owner: I've got it!!! We will win the NBA title as soon as we acquire Sarunas Jasikevicius.

Coach: My resignation papers will be on your desk Monday.

Team Owner: WHAT??? Our message boards will skyrocket in popularity. Sure our ticket sales will go down, no extra merchandise will be sold unless we make Saras shirts, but hey we will have 5 or 6 new fans. Well not really fans, but more ppl will watch our games illegally on the internet!!

Coach: I need to find a new job, I'll call Zeke. Mabe he'll le me play 2 guard for him. But look on the bright side, you'll have Oden next year.

Team Owner: Who needs Greg Oden? We have Sarunas!!

:brilliant

Except the Isiah part.

Kestas
10-22-2006, 12:18 PM
Because he isnt a Sarunas homer? And maybe he watches the NBA and not just Sarunas

well, I practically watch neither NBA, nor Saras (I follow his performance mostly because he's representing European basketball and I want it to look good), but I can assure you I've seen Saras play for six years at least, while you only saw him play for one year (and three games before that, I hope). and I also remember Cavaliers were offering Saras more money than Pacers last year (and they were not the only team besides Pacers to offer him a contract). what's more, there've been cases when teams would trade players for cheep and these players would turn into much more valuable contributers in the different team (you should be more aware of these cases) - so there are precedents. I also noticed that you guys not always have the best guess regarding the trades.. see how you all were guessing left and right regarding Artest - some 98% of all those guesses were wrong. I suspect majority of you have no idea what's going on behind the curtains in the Pacers - how can you know what's going on behind the curtains in the remaining 29 teams? of course you can't. no one can. we can only guess.

besides, I do not use cheep tricks that Robert here came up with (see above - wild exhaggeration, but quite good, btw :laugh: )

Anthem
10-22-2006, 05:03 PM
I hope so, yes. but I'm not quallified enough to guess which team(s) would that be.
Ok, that was honest. Thank you.

Whose opinion would you believe? Obviously you don't believe mine, which I'm not offended by. Naptown Seth, UncleBuck, Bball, Jay, and Kstat are all pretty knowlegable fans, but you don't believe them either.

Given what he's shown so far, I don't think Saras would be a starting point guard for any team in the NBA. None of those guys do either. Since you're not familiar with the NBA game and what it takes to be an NBA-level player, what makes you think that your opinion is more valid than theirs / ours?

Especially when you can't even name a single team you think he'd start for.


edit: Saras was a starter for the Pacers for some time last season, btw.
Right, due to injury. But I'm asking for a team that would say "When everybody's healthy, Sarunas will be our starting point guard."

Mourning
10-22-2006, 05:17 PM
For feeling so positive during the offseason, I'm quickly becoming very cynical and easily irritated. I just might not make it this season, without an extended break.

Agreed! Though I wasn't as extatic in the offseason as some seemed to be. I still miss a reliable starter at PG aswell as a veteran sharpshooter at SG.

Except for a trade I don't see anyway for getting that PG, because we are not very likely to be in the draft next summer.
And what of real value do we have that would make another team give us either a decent prospect or an established talent at that position?

With the more running and moving style of our team we NEED a good and reliable PG more then almost anything else.

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

Kestas
10-22-2006, 07:23 PM
Especially when you can't even name a single team you think he'd start for.
...
Right, due to injury. But I'm asking for a team that would say "When everybody's healthy, Sarunas will be our starting point guard."

I think I sorta overlooked the "starting" moment in your post.. I don't care if he's starting or not. sometimes even the leader of the team comes off the bench.. especially in this case I would be very happy to see him as a solid back-up to some World class PG in NBA (which Tinsley isn't, I'm afraid :(). although wat I'd really love is to see him in a championship contender.. but if he'd be underused in a championship winning team and would score 5 points combined during the Finals - screw it. better back to Europe instead..
and what's the point naming those teams.. I believe those who tried to obtain him last year should be looked at first, but others as well.. however, if you feel he's stuck with the Pacers, then, I guess, this is the best option at the moment (however bad it looks on paper).

Naptown_Seth
10-22-2006, 08:33 PM
edit: Saras was a starter for the Pacers for some time last season, btw.
He was also HANDED the #2 PG spot last summer, putting AJ in the zero minutes role for the most part to start the year. By the end of the season AJ was STARTING and SarJas was struggling to get into games. That was an earned change of status due to results.

SarJas had a GREAT +/- to start the season, but from around JAN 1 onward he was in the red. His +/- fell from around +120 to +56 to end the year. AJ blew past him and ended at +131 total, nearly double his total as a per 48 minute amount, and of course higher as a per game amount.

In short Anthony Johnson crushed him when it came to the team outscoring the opponents when he was on the court. Maybe SarJas played with the bench, but then he was also given the chance to play against bench players from the other team in those situations, so it's not a good excuse.

Kestas
10-23-2006, 05:32 AM
He was also HANDED the #2 PG spot last summer, putting AJ in the zero minutes role for the most part to start the year. By the end of the season AJ was STARTING and SarJas was struggling to get into games. That was an earned change of status due to results.

SarJas had a GREAT +/- to start the season, but from around JAN 1 onward he was in the red. His +/- fell from around +120 to +56 to end the year. AJ blew past him and ended at +131 total, nearly double his total as a per 48 minute amount, and of course higher as a per game amount.

In short Anthony Johnson crushed him when it came to the team outscoring the opponents when he was on the court. Maybe SarJas played with the bench, but then he was also given the chance to play against bench players from the other team in those situations, so it's not a good excuse.

I'm sure we are all aware fo a terrible second part of the season by Saras. however, the reasons we would give differ wildly ;). and we are aware of these differences too, btw.. overall the subject seems to be exhausted at the moment. maybe we should discuss Saras after some 15 games of the regular season..

Beowulfas
10-23-2006, 06:40 AM
SarJas had a GREAT +/- to start the season, but from around JAN 1 onward he was in the red. His +/- fell from around +120 to +56 to end the year. AJ blew past him and ended at +131 total, nearly double his total as a per 48 minute amount, and of course higher as a per game amount.

Even when he was leading Pacers in +/- (for half a season), he was treated in this board like now.
Everybody was denying +/- thing.
I do not know, if this is a racial, or a national thing, but something is wrong in evaluation of Saras. Maybe it's a revenge for killing Dreaming Team, maybe expectations were too high, it's hard to tell.

He had at least solid first half of the season, a poor second half.
He was playing not at his natural position.
He is a streaky shooter, has perfect court vision and passing, has poor defence and ball handling.
An average starting NBA PG.
In his first season.
This year he will be better.
That would be a calm view at the situation.

And what do we see in the board?
Trade for 2nd rounder, cut from roster, add with best rebounder in NBA and trade for expiring contract :crazy:
I don't know, it might be blind hate, or low IQ.
Or a mixture of those two.

blow
10-23-2006, 06:44 AM
Team Owner: WHAT??? Our message boards will skyrocket in popularity. Sure our ticket sales will go down, no extra merchandise will be sold unless we make Saras shirts, but hey we will have 5 or 6 new fans. Well not really fans, but more ppl will watch our games illegally on the internet!!


This thread is so stupid I can't even tell. How could anyone judge a player or more of them by three or four preseason games? Judge by insulting PD European posters. The thread has turned crazy. Actually, has been turned crazy guess by whom? Not by Europeans but by old fellows here trying to convince "I dont' know whom" that Sarunas is sooooo bad. I say close this one.

Flax
10-23-2006, 07:05 AM
Look, fellow countrymen, when Sarunas is gone from Pacers, you are also gone from this board. 100% sure about this. Realise that you only care about Saras being the stud, while local Pacers fans care about the team. If Saras is not delivering, they have every right to be upset and not to care how good he was in Europe. He plays in NBA now, and if he fails reality check when season starts - he is dead horse in NBA. Welcome back to Euroleague afterwards.

I wish I am wrong, of course.

Robertmto
10-23-2006, 07:23 AM
This thread is so stupid I can't even tell. How could anyone judge a player or more of them by three or four preseason games? Judge by insulting PD European posters. The thread has turned crazy. Actually, has been turned crazy guess by whom? Not by Europeans but by old fellows here trying to convince "I dont' know whom" that Sarunas is sooooo bad. I say close this one.

You know he played here last year as well.


Look, fellow countrymen, when Sarunas is gone from Pacers, you are also gone from this board. 100% sure about this. Realise that you only care about Saras being the stud, while local Pacers fans care about the team. If Saras is not delivering, they have every right to be upset and not to care how good he was in Europe. He plays in NBA now, and if he fails reality check when season starts - he is dead horse in NBA. Welcome back to Euroleague afterwards.

I wish I am wrong, of course.

Wow - truth

Anthem
10-23-2006, 10:09 AM
I'm sure we are all aware fo a terrible second part of the season by Saras. however, the reasons we would give differ wildly ;). and we are aware of these differences too, btw.. overall the subject seems to be exhausted at the moment. maybe we should discuss Saras after some 15 games of the regular season..
Yep, that's fair.

Let's let this one rest for a couple of weeks.

grace
10-23-2006, 10:13 AM
Let's let this one rest for a couple of weeks.

When was the last time a subject was dropped around here?

Anthem
10-23-2006, 10:24 AM
When was the last time a subject was dropped around here?
I'm attempting to show that I have no innate need to bash Sarunas.

I'd really like it if we traded Sarunas, if only for the changes it would bring to the forum.

Kegboy
10-23-2006, 11:00 AM
Look, fellow countrymen, when Sarunas is gone from Pacers, you are also gone from this board. 100% sure about this. Realise that you only care about Saras being the stud, while local Pacers fans care about the team. If Saras is not delivering, they have every right to be upset and not to care how good he was in Europe. He plays in NBA now, and if he fails reality check when season starts - he is dead horse in NBA. Welcome back to Euroleague afterwards.

I wish I am wrong, of course.

QFT

And Anthem, come on, this thread is fun! I'd nominate it for thread of the year, if only you hadn't changed your avatar. Bad Anthem, bad!

Kestas
10-23-2006, 12:14 PM
Look, fellow countrymen, when Sarunas is gone from Pacers, you are also gone from this board. 100% sure about this. Realise that you only care about Saras being the stud, while local Pacers fans care about the team. If Saras is not delivering, they have every right to be upset and not to care how good he was in Europe. He plays in NBA now, and if he fails reality check when season starts - he is dead horse in NBA. Welcome back to Euroleague afterwards.


that's an oversimplified view, of course (though it may be spot on for some posters). I wrote dozens of explanations regarding this last season.. now I can only tell that it's actually more complicated than that, but I promise I won't elaborate further (I'm feeling sorry I even wrote this, coz most likely people who I am adressing this will fail to read it. again ;)).