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View Full Version : The booing needs to stop



Shade
10-17-2006, 12:09 AM
Seriously, it's just ridiculous. It's at the point where Gnome and I are the only ones actively cheering Jack, and that's just bizarre. :disturbed

Unclebuck
10-17-2006, 12:13 AM
What I can't figure out is that Saturday night the booing was very mild at best, but tonight it seemed much louder for longer periods of time.

Pacesetter
10-17-2006, 12:30 AM
What's done is done. The booing pissed me off tonight. It's completely unnecessary and embarrassing! I deliberately took every opportunity to stand up and cheer for Jackson. He made a bad judgement call, that he'll probably never make again. I'll cheer for him more now than ever because I can't stand people booing one of our guys!

Jose Slaughter
10-17-2006, 01:26 AM
The booing should be for Bird!

Bball
10-17-2006, 01:39 AM
The booing will now take on a life of its own. It will get worse before it gets better... if it can ever get better.

It's a caustic, cancerous situation now.

-Bball

lenin_fresh
10-17-2006, 02:12 AM
Yeah, the boos were getting old. I could only see one other group from where I was sitting that was cheering the guy.

aero
10-17-2006, 02:45 AM
the booing wont stop...

SycamoreKen
10-17-2006, 03:24 AM
That is why they should have sat him down.

Shack80
10-17-2006, 03:43 AM
He made a bad judgement call, that he'll probably never make again.

LOL! The Booing maybe lame, but none more so than that statement. Jax is nothing but bad judgements in life. :laugh: Hell he does not even have good judgement in shot selection most nights. :-o

denyfizle
10-17-2006, 04:51 AM
the booing should increase until Jackson plays the best basketball of his life or he gets traded. i mean, what are we really waiting for? i was a big Artest fan who defended him til the end but we should've learned our lesson by now. well at least i hope Larry Bird and DW did. what do we need for Jacko- and you can add JT to that- to do before we try to cut our losses? im not condemning Jack for the strip club incident coz it wasn't his fault obviously but the bigger picture is he's just done in Indy. the negative effects of both on the team just surpasses the positives so before they do further damage, just move em!!! we still have JO, AL and Danny... we're not chasing the crown. it's not like losing these 2 knuckleheads will cost us anything. like they say... you only gain something if you're willing to open up your hand and let go of your hand's burden.

BlueNGold
10-17-2006, 06:08 AM
the booing should increase until Jackson plays the best basketball of his life or he gets traded. i mean, what are we really waiting for? i was a big Artest fan who defended him til the end but we should've learned our lesson by now. well at least i hope Larry Bird and DW did. what do we need for Jacko- and you can add JT to that- to do before we try to cut our losses? im not condemning Jack for the strip club incident coz it wasn't his fault obviously but the bigger picture is he's just done in Indy. the negative effects of both on the team just surpasses the positives so before they do further damage, just move em!!! we still have JO, AL and Danny... we're not chasing the crown. it's not like losing these 2 knuckleheads will cost us anything. like they say... you only gain something if you're willing to open up your hand and let go of your hand's burden.

I'm not sure why they are even playing Jack. Maybe to tick off the fans some more.

...maybe they think if they act as if nothing happened, that his trade value will increase. Another bad move. When are these guys gonna learn?

Do the right thing TPTB! Bench him, trade him or CUT him!

Harddrive7
10-17-2006, 07:10 AM
Awww poor Jack. Give me a break. ANOTHER bad judgement call that's once again ANOTHER distraction for a team that has done everything they could to try to put a good face back on our team.

A team that spent God only knows how much money promoting a new team with a new image. They even had to pull the ads because of this. Does anyone here realize how much something like that cost? Bird and D.W. go out and revamp the team all the while puttting thier trust and their faith in Jackson as one of the core members.

A team that looked great in their first preseason game then Jackson comes back and 0-2.

This entire fiascle is going to distract this team throughout the season as Rick is once again going to have to shuffle rotations as Jackson goes to court/jail or whatever have you.

He's done it to us again yet he has somehow screwed up so bad this time that people are actually feeling sorry for him and cheering for him? What a joke.

Would I boo jackson at a game? Probably not. I'm a little old to be booing. would I cheer for him? Ummm no. I'm totally over him as well as JO trying to act like a leader, but that's another thread.

I really feel that we got rid of the wrong guys. The ole lipstick on a pig saying so comes into play with this team and the brass knew it. But because of Jackson's LAST "bad judgement call", he's lost all trade value.

Poor guy can't get a break, I guess that he just has "bad luck". :rolleyes:

Slick Pinkham
10-17-2006, 08:23 AM
Every fan should decide whether or not to send a message to the powers that be that enough is enough and Jackson isn't the type of player/person we need on this team.

A fan can send a message by not showing up, by showing up and booing, or by complaining in letters and e-mails.

Not showing up (or not watching) doesn't make sense if you still love basketball and aren't eager to give it up because of a few rotten apples on your team.

Writing letters and e-mails probably doesn't help since none of them reach Larry or Donnie.

Your very best option is to boo, and boo loudly. Since Larry and Donnie are always there when in town, the message will be received.

It may annoy some of the other players and annoy the fans who don't seem to be bothered by having players who misbehave, but it will make it crystal clear to TPTB that you as a fan are fed up and not willing to just sit back and take it.

:soapbox:

RWB
10-17-2006, 08:28 AM
Every fan should decide whether or not to send a message to the powers that be that enough is enough and Jackson isn't the type of player/person we need on this team.

A fan can send a message by not showing up, by showing up and booing, or by complaining in letters and e-mails.

Not showing up (or not watching) doesn't make sense if you still love basketball and aren't eager to give it up because of a few rotten apples on your team.

Writing letters and e-mails probably doesn't help since none of them reach Larry or Donnie.

Your very best option is to boo, and boo loudly. Since Larry and Donnie are always there when in town, the message will be received.

It may annoy some of the other players and annoy the fans who don't seem to be bothered by having players who misbehave, but it will make it crystal clear to TPTB that you as a fan are fed up and not willing to just sit back and take it.

:soapbox:

Nicely put PT. What do you think TPTB would prefer the fans not showing up and withholding their money or paying and letting their voices be heard? I suspect they would prefer the later as Tom as suggested.

Pacesetter
10-17-2006, 08:33 AM
They're playing Jack because he's the most productive at his position.

The reason the booing should stop is because it's immature to boo a player from the home team every time he touches the ball because the boobirds are pissy he's still on the team. It's something that is embarrassing, or should be embarrassing to adults. In fact booing like that in public is likened to a child not getting his way, and throwing a temper tantrum.

Go ahead and boo. I'll guarantee you one thing, when the majority of fans finally started getting tired of the boobirds they started applauding Jackson to drown out the booing. Jackson also realized that too and got a huge lift. It's not about poor Jackson, but it's over, it's done deal, he got the message most here and around the country feel he's a thug, so it's his problem to change that perception & I think he is trying to do that one day (game) at a time!

TheSuaveOne
10-17-2006, 08:35 AM
He made a bad judgement call, that he'll probably never make again.

LOL, what in his history would make you think this is a valid premise? All you can hope for is that the incidents don't get worse, but to think there won;t be another incident with this guy is rather silly...la

Fool
10-17-2006, 09:27 AM
Cheering for him because others boo him seems silly to me. If the rest cheered him, would you boo him?

Since86
10-17-2006, 12:02 PM
They're playing Jack because he's the most productive at his position.

Which isn't saying much.

I didn't get to see the game, but it looks like Marshall out played him, with one less minute of playing time. My God, Jax shot the damn ball 12 times in 25mins.

Letting him go is addition by subtraction.

ABADays
10-17-2006, 12:19 PM
My guess is Jax2 doesn't even give a damn about the booing. I mean really, who cares? How would you like to be the Cardinals as they walked off the field last night against the Bears?

If we are looking at fan etiquette let's not boo any of the opponents players either. C'mon - it's a game.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 12:20 PM
Cheering for him because others boo him seems silly to me. If the rest cheered him, would you boo him?

No kidding.

Unclebuck
10-17-2006, 12:20 PM
So do you think TPTB are too stupid to figure out that the fans aren't happy with Jax, and the only way they will figure it out is if the fans boo him. Do many of you really think that little of DW and Bird.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 12:24 PM
So do you think TPTB are too stupid to figure out that the fans aren't happy with Jax, and the only way they will figure it out is if the fans boo him. Do many of you really think that little of DW and Bird.

It has nothing to do with the intelligence of TPTB.

I have yet to see or hear a game this season, but as a paying customer you are allowed to voice your opinion on the product you are paying for.

I have never had a problem with fan's booing, and I dont see anything wrong with it in this instance.

imawhat
10-17-2006, 12:25 PM
What I can't figure out is that Saturday night the booing was very mild at best, but tonight it seemed much louder for longer periods of time.


Stephen's article with his horrible justification came out after the game Saturday. Maybe that's why.

imawhat
10-17-2006, 12:26 PM
So do you think TPTB are too stupid to figure out that the fans aren't happy with Jax, and the only way they will figure it out is if the fans boo him. Do many of you really think that little of DW and Bird.


They're smart enough to figure it out, but I'm thinking less of them every day.

Btw, I'm starting to feel like I'm picking on you, UB.

sixthman
10-17-2006, 12:27 PM
There would be less booing if the Pacers were winning and playing well.

bulldog
10-17-2006, 12:55 PM
It's only gonna get worse. People are gonna jump on the booing bandwagon, they don't like to boo alone, seeing everyone else do it will give'em courage.

Booing is like democracy: it's the worst form of expressing your displeasure with the team, except for all of the others. What else do you want fans to do? They want a change, let'em boo.

Speed
10-17-2006, 12:58 PM
Dude, they booed the Colts two weeks ago in the first half, I don't think Jax is gonna get a break. :)

Ultimate Frisbee
10-17-2006, 01:11 PM
If it means anything... I really dislike the booing too and would like it to stop... I really don't think its productive and feel that it is classless...

BlueNGold
10-17-2006, 01:12 PM
They're smart enough to figure it out, but I'm thinking less of them every day.

I agree, but I would not use the word "they". Bird has yet to earn any respect as a GM. He is the one that starred on the magazine cover with Ron Ron and Sarunas was his brain child. Not real bright moves IMO.

ChicagoJ
10-17-2006, 02:15 PM
A.) I think the boo'ing should continue until he's either exonerated by the courts or traded. He's made his choices, now he has to deal with the consequences. I do feel bad for the rest of the players that they're stuck with fans that are fed-up with the antics of our team. But the fans made it really clear late last season that Stephen Jackson wasn't living up to their expectations, and its only gotten worse since then. What choice do they have other than to boo him and management? If there were no-shows, you'd be complaining about that, too. This team doesn't deserve "unquestioned" support.

B.) Its a shame TPTB continues to underestimate the fans' dissatisfaction with the team.

Here's the result of my email:


Hi Jay,

I hope you're doing well! Unfortunately, at this point, there are no refunds. If you are wanting to cancel, we can go forward with that, but the money on your account would just show as a credit to be used for other games, etc.

We do not have a reinstatement policy. Chances are if you give up your package where you're located, it will be gone pretty quickly. Should you decide to come back, I will do my best to get you your seats, or comparable seats.

I apologize for the inconvenience and I also can understand your frustrations. We are disappointed as well, but I also know that there are the other players and employees of the Pacers, that have worked hard all summer to make things better. I am trusting them and giving them a chance. I hope you're willing to do the same for me, Jay.

Please let me know what I can do for you.

My original email was,


Krista,

I’m sure you’re getting these questions a lot.

Is there a refund policy for fans that don’t want to watch a certain player in legal trouble on the court representing the Pacers?

Is there a reinstatement policy for fans that cancel but wish to resume their tickets if/ when that same player is either (1) no longer with the Pacers, or (2) exonerated by the courts?

We’re not sure what we want to do – and obviously these things take time and right now we’re willing to wait until the dust settles or closer to the start of the regular season. I was just wondering what the option were.

Regards, Jay

Ultimately, I'm still swayed by the fact that there are a bunch of frontcourt players on this team that I like. But we could really use a new backcourt if TPTB wants the boo'ing to stop.

Slick Pinkham
10-17-2006, 02:25 PM
I hope you're willing to do the same for me, Jay.

Please let me know what I can do for you.

Jay, Krista is after you! Ask her to send pictures...



;)

Slick Pinkham
10-17-2006, 02:28 PM
So do you think TPTB are too stupid to figure out that the fans aren't happy with Jax, and the only way they will figure it out is if the fans boo him. Do many of you really think that little of DW and Bird.

I'm sure that they know it.

But if the booing totally stopped, they would think that the fans have gotten over it. The continued booing is a constant reminder that they have work to do.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 02:46 PM
A.) I think the boo'ing should continue until he's either exonerated by the courts or traded. He's made his choices, now he has to deal with the consequences. I do feel bad for the rest of the players that they're stuck with fans that are fed-up with the antics of our team. But the fans made it really clear late last season that Stephen Jackson wasn't living up to their expectations, and its only gotten worse since then. What choice do they have other than to boo him and management? If there were no-shows, you'd be complaining about that, too. This team doesn't deserve "unquestioned" support.

B.) Its a shame TPTB continues to underestimate the fans' dissatisfaction with the team.

Here's the result of my email:



My original email was,



Ultimately, I'm still swayed by the fact that there are a bunch of frontcourt players on this team that I like. But we could really use a new backcourt if TPTB wants the boo'ing to stop.

*VA sits back and waits for the "your not a real fan" and "your a hater" threads.*

I still have no clue why Jackson is on this team. I think that purely from a business POV that was the stupidest thing TPTB could do, and I have no clue why the Simons signed off on it.

Oh well, if the non stop booing does not get the message across, maybe having empty seats will get the job done.

Bridge
10-17-2006, 02:54 PM
I have been a season ticket holder since the ABA days. The one thing this franchise always had, was quality players. I'm not talking about their game performance, but what kind of people they are. Look at what this team has now. We have a bunch of "thugs". I don't like watching street ball. I can go over to the park and watch Pacer basketball. The team has gone to the dogs. This team is not going to win. We need to clean house, starting with our "team leaders". There is an obvious lack of leadership.

Am I a fair weather fan? No. I remember how bad we were after our ABA championships. I kept my season tickets through all of that. The players worked hard, and cared. Remember the game against the Magic after the brawl? No one plays that way on this team anymore. It is obvious that the players do not care. They don't care about this quality organization, themselves, the game, or the fans.

That is why we boo.

RWB
10-17-2006, 02:58 PM
I have been a season ticket holder since the ABA days.

That is why we boo.

WOW :-o

The man has been a member of PD since 05 and this was only his third post. Another sign the natives are restless.

Kstat
10-17-2006, 03:02 PM
From a purely selfish standpoint, I endorse bringing Stephen Jackson back, because there's no way in hell he's going to go a full 82-game season without completely losing his mind at least once, especially if he gets booed by his own fans.

Like Artest, I'm just glad I'm out of his blast radius. :lurk:

I have no idea why Bird insists on torpedoing his own franchise, but I'm not going to complain.

BlueNGold
10-17-2006, 03:03 PM
*VA sits back and waits for the "your not a real fan" and "your a hater" threads.*

I still have no clue why Jackson is on this team. I think that purely from a business POV that was the stupidest thing TPTB could do, and I have no clue why the Simons signed off on it.

Oh well, if the non stop booing does not get the message across, maybe having empty seats will get the job done.

TPTB already compounded the problem by putting Jack on the floor. They should have never put him out there. This is perhaps more troubling to me than Jack's actions themselves.

The only reasons you would conceivably put Jack out there at this point would be to 1) raise his trade value or 2) win more games. I don't think either of those reasons are enough to further tick off the fans considering the fact Jack is just not that good compared to other players that will be available. There is just not a large drop off from Jack to Quis or Granger considering everything they bring to the game. Let Harrington play SF and put Foster, Powell, Baston and Harrison on the floor more minutes. We have enough front court bodies to allow Granger to split time with Quis at the 2.

Unclebuck
10-17-2006, 03:23 PM
OK, what do you want TPTB to do with Jackson right now. Don't talk about past mistakes, talk about what you want the pacers to do now. Keep in mind there are legal issues involved and the players union involved here.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 03:25 PM
OK, what do you want TPTB to do with Jackson right now. Domn't talk about past mistakes, talk about what you want the pacers to do now. Keep in mind there are legal issues involved and the players union involved here.

Put him on the inactive list.

You are right. There are issues with the NBAPA. That is why you put him on the "suspended with pay" list.

imawhat
10-17-2006, 03:26 PM
Suspend him indefinitely. If Doc Rivers can suspend Orien Greene for driving 90 in a 35 (or whatever it was), then TPTB can suspend Jax indefinitely.

ajbry
10-17-2006, 03:28 PM
There is just not a large drop off from Jack to Quis or Granger considering everything they bring to the game. Let Harrington play SF and put Foster, Powell, Baston and Harrison on the floor more minutes. We have enough front court bodies to allow Granger to split time with Quis at the 2.

Where have you observed this? I don't recall seeing any notable games in which we could all be assured that Marquis and Danny will fill in for Jack, without losing any productivity. Let's wait until the regular season and then you can make your points. Until then, it's unfair to assume Jack can be replaced by Marquis Daniels...

Black Sox
10-17-2006, 03:28 PM
The booing will eventually stop once people realize how dumb they look when they do it.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 03:32 PM
The booing will eventually stop once people realize how dumb they look when they do it.

I fail to see how booing can make anybody look dumb.

Looking dumb is booing when a injured player gets carted off the field (or is that just classless? You decide.) but booing because you are not happy with the product you are receiving is from from "dumb".

When I order a item and I am unhappy with it, I return it and get a refund. I let the company know I was not happy with the product/service I received. This is what fans do when they boo, and I am still amazed any person can still have the you should be "100 % loyal and never boo, no matter what" attitude. There is a place between being a "hater" and being a "supporter". It is called reality. Sadly, reality is many of us saw some incident coming long, long, ago. TPTB choose to roll the dice, and [once again] they have been burned.

BlueNGold
10-17-2006, 03:35 PM
OK, what do you want TPTB to do with Jackson right now. Domn't talk about past mistakes, talk about what you want the pacers to do now. Keep in mind there are legal issues involved and the players union involved here.

First, bench him or tell him to stay home. Let the legal system do its work. If he is exonerated, the people should accept him. If convicted, void his contract that day and advertise it in the papers.

In the meantime, work on a trade. Take a loss if necessary. He will never be a great player at this point...and although he is currently our most talented SG, let the others develop. Let Granger or Quis start at SG. Either can handle the position. Move Al to SF, JO to PF and Harrison or Foster to C.

If he is exonerated and not tradeable, take a poll from the fans and determine whether we should eat his contract or play him. Let the people decide!....or at least listen to them.

ChicagoJ
10-17-2006, 03:42 PM
Where have you observed this? I don't recall seeing any notable games in which we could all be assured that Marquis and Danny will fill in for Jack, without losing any productivity. Let's wait until the regular season and then you can make your points. Until then, it's unfair to assume Jack can be replaced by Marquis Daniels...

I'm a streaky shooter, and I'm turnover prone.

If I can learn to hold on to the ball too long, *I* can replace SJax.

Stephen Jackson offends me more as a dumb/ bad/ overerated basketball player than his off-court nonsense (although it adds evidence that he just don't make good decisions anywhere, anytime.)

BlueNGold
10-17-2006, 03:45 PM
Where have you observed this? I don't recall seeing any notable games in which we could all be assured that Marquis and Danny will fill in for Jack, without losing any productivity. Let's wait until the regular season and then you can make your points. Until then, it's unfair to assume Jack can be replaced by Marquis Daniels...

Marquis averaged double figures for a better team and shot a much better FG% than Jack. Jack averaged more points but he played more minutes and took many more shots. In any event, points per minute played were comparable. So, talent-wise I think Quis can handle it. ...and if you look at the value of their contracts, Quis is valued in the same neighborhood as Jack. Granger will be more valuable.

Not saying there won't be a small drop-off. Jack is a talented player....but Quis and Granger are not far behind at all.

ajbry
10-17-2006, 03:45 PM
I'm a streaky shooter, and I'm turnover prone.

If I can learn to hold on to the ball too long, *I* can replace SJax.

You just described most perimeter players in the league. Jack has his faults, but it certainly doesn't merit any discredit in regards to his play. He's a good player - like it or not.

Alpolloloco
10-17-2006, 03:55 PM
You just described most perimeter players in the league. Jack has his faults, but it certainly doesn't merit any discredit in regards to his play. He's a good player ... not.

fixed

Putnam
10-17-2006, 03:56 PM
Where have you observed this?




There is just not a large drop off from Jack to Quis or Granger considering everything they bring to the game.

It is there, ajbry. BNG emphasizes the whole game, not just scoring. Jackson had a higher rate of scoring last year, but he took too many shots to make those points. Quis and Granger both had higher scoring percentages.

FG percentage

Jackson .41
Granger .46
Daniels .48

Or look at rebounds

Jackson 5.1 rebounds per 48 minutes
Daniels 6.1
Granger 10.5

Cover up the names, and then tell you you'd rather have the guy with the lowest FG percentage and the fewest rebounds.

ChicagoJ
10-17-2006, 04:08 PM
You just described most perimeter players in the league. Jack has his faults, but it certainly doesn't merit any discredit in regards to his play. He's a good player - like it or not.

A. No, there are many, many perimeter players better than SJax.

B. He's generally near the bottom of all SGs/ SFs in terms of FG% and turnovers. He's also near the top on he FG% and scoring standard deviations, which is not really a good thing. Statistically, he's much more up-and-down (IOW, much less consistent) than the typical NBA SG or SF.

C. Even if his stats were closer to the average (not even the top players) for his position, his basketballIQ is so much lower than any player not named Darius Miles that its a (bad) joke.

D. The only reason his "scoring" stat is as good as it seems is because he dominates the ball too much, shoots too much, etc. His scoring is an output of shooting volume, and his shot selection is often atrocious (but every once in a while he hits every bad shot he throws up at the basket, encouraging a few more games of the same bad behavior until the cycle repeats.)

BlueNGold
10-17-2006, 04:14 PM
D. The only reason his "scoring" stat is as good as it seems is because he dominates the ball too much, shoots too much, etc. His scoring is an output of shooting volume, and his shot selection is often atrocious (but every once in a while he hits every bad shot he throws up at the basket, encouraging a few more games of the same bad behavior until the cycle repeats.)

This could not possibly be more true. It appears you have watched a few games.

SycamoreKen
10-17-2006, 04:30 PM
Where have you observed this? I don't recall seeing any notable games in which we could all be assured that Marquis and Danny will fill in for Jack, without losing any productivity. Let's wait until the regular season and then you can make your points. Until then, it's unfair to assume Jack can be replaced by Marquis Daniels...

Someone better be able to step in for him when he is having one of his horrible games and coach needs to sit him for the night. You can have those games when you are playing on a horrible team in Atlanta, but not for a team trying to make some noise in the playoffs. If they can't, then we are in for a long season without the extra garbage he has brought in.

Slick Pinkham
10-17-2006, 04:30 PM
I've seen recently a site that ranked players top to bottom by position. Granted, this was for fantasy basketball purposes, but it applies to the real world too.

They listed Jax as the 20th best shooting guard in the NBA. I thought that they were extremely generous. Of course most fantasy games focus on stat totals and not so much on percentages or per-minute efficiency. That would make Jax look worse.

From a fantasy basketball perspective there may be only 19 shooting guards more productive, but in the real world I think that there are many NBA BACKUP SGs who are better than Jax. He might crack my top 30. That's WITHOUT factoring in character/attitude issues.

Since86
10-17-2006, 04:37 PM
You really shouldn't have deleted that post, Ken. I was gonna comment that I agreed, but I thought it would have been obvious and didn't.

BillS
10-17-2006, 04:45 PM
OK, what do you want TPTB to do with Jackson right now. Domn't talk about past mistakes, talk about what you want the pacers to do now. Keep in mind there are legal issues involved and the players union involved here.

I want him gone. I don't care if it is "fair", I don't care if there is value-for-value, maybe it's time for us to be the Nuggets or the Clippers to some bottom-rung team and give them a gift.

It may not be fair, it may not be the best basketball move, but this franchise has more PR issues than it has skill issues right now. I'd take a hit for a year to get this monkey off our backs, and I think the guts it took to make that kind of move would give us a grace year for the young guys to get ready.

I'd wave bye-bye to Tinsley as well if that's what it takes.

Sometimes you have to do what is right for the fans - keep a popular player or let a reviled one go, same thing.

If we don't have Jackson on the team, what is the worst that can happen?

Roaming Gnome
10-17-2006, 05:25 PM
I will make this short...

The booing will be it's worst for the home opener...then it will be spotty then finally die out. Last night the boos were pretty loud, but not as angry or sustained as I was expecting. Personally, I expected a standing boo-vation everytime Jack touched the ball...Remember Ben Wallace? It never happened and judging from last nights effort, it wont!


One good thing about this...Jack is in a place I've wanted him to be.....comming off the bench!

Destined4Greatness
10-17-2006, 05:36 PM
<I>Jackson, who was charged last week with a felony count of criminal recklessness for firing shots into the air during a fight at a strip club earlier this month, was booed by the home fans each time he entered the game. The crowd cheered for him in the third quarter. He had a nifty reverse layup and a 3-pointer and finished with seven points in the period to help the Pacers stay in the game. </i>

PATHETIC, you can't hate the guy when he enters the game and is about to try and help the team, and then cheer for him when he is helping the team. We have the dumbest fans in the league apparently.

Bball
10-17-2006, 05:40 PM
One good thing about this...Jack is in a place I've wanted him to be.....comming off the bench!

What makes you think he'll stay there?

Here is my prediction for the booing... It will rise to a crescendo and only fall as the ticket buying public turn their backs on the team when (if) they see the boos aren't really being heard.

There is another way they would quiet and that would be for this team, and Sjax, to be on a tear winning at 3-1 or so out of the gate. But with our schedule and distractions I don't know how likely that will be.

-Bball

JayRedd
10-17-2006, 05:42 PM
. PATHETIC, you can't hate the guy when he enters the game and is about to try and help the team, and then cheer for him when he is helping the team. We have the dumbest fans in the league apparently.

I'm guessing it was different people

Destined4Greatness
10-17-2006, 05:42 PM
Yeah and even if Jack is there on November, 3rd i believe. As soon as Tinsley and JO get hurt, he will almost certainly be starting again.

ChicagoJ
10-17-2006, 05:44 PM
Jackson, who was charged last week with a felony count of criminal recklessness for firing shots into the air during a fight at a strip club earlier this month, was booed by the home fans each time he entered the game. The crowd cheered for him in the third quarter. He had a nifty reverse layup and a 3-pointer and finished with seven points in the period to help the Pacers stay in the game.

PATHETIC, you can't hate the guy when he enters the game and is about to try and help the team, and then cheer for him when he is helping the team. We have the dumbest fans in the league apparently.

I wasn't there, but I doubt that the same fans both boo'ed and cheered for him. Probably a few people were so disgused with the booing that surrounded them all night that they cheered enthusiastically when he made a few plays on the court.

I'm obviously much more willing to voice my displeasure verbally than many of the rest of you. And there have been times when a player I don't "approve of" makes a nice play. I'll acknowledge the nice play, but I'm not going to cheer for him.

Leisure Suit Larry
10-17-2006, 06:06 PM
It is ridiculous. I can't wait until I can make it up to a game and show Jack some support. I think I'll have to go to the home opener.

Pacesetter
10-17-2006, 06:43 PM
Hey if you guys want to boo, boo until your heart's content. I just know for me, I'm going to cheer him on. I want to see him get through this tough time. Even Slick said during the game Saturday night that people need to take it easy on the guy (or words to that effect), because he's having a really tough time right now and could use the support.

The guy didn't kill his estranged wife and her best friend then take off for a high/slow speed chase; he made a mistake being out at 3am and getting involved in an altercation which could have been prevented had cooler heads prevailed. JMO.

:cool:

Leisure Suit Larry
10-17-2006, 06:50 PM
Yeah booing isn't going to get him traded.

ABADays
10-17-2006, 06:55 PM
Yeah booing isn't going to get him traded.

You're right. Only empty seats will so you make sure you fill one of them up.

Leisure Suit Larry
10-17-2006, 07:04 PM
You're right. Only empty seats will so you make sure you fill one of them up.

I will buddy.

Naptown_Seth
10-17-2006, 07:27 PM
Dude, they booed the Colts two weeks ago in the first half, I don't think Jax is gonna get a break. :)
Which says it all about this city.

For all the Pacers pride and Luv Ya Blue, ask those a'holes where they were when the Colts couldn't sell out 2 home games to avoid a blackout in 2003.

I get why Jack is being booed but at the same time I've seen plenty of players not named Jack fail to get recognition for good efforts from these same fans. You have to do a lot more to get cheers in this city than to get boos, or worse yet the standard level of apathy/disbelief.

How jaded is the Pacer fan base? The first time the Pacers made the ECF they held a rally AFTER they were eliminated over at city market with all the players. Then they held another one the next year when they again made the ECF. Fast forward to 2003-04 and that ECF loss following a 61 win season and fans were mostly mad.

The funny thing is that back when they came out to support the team after the ECF runs, they rarely sold out games during the season (if at all). Games were not on TV very often (due to the contract, though some of that was based on viewership/ad sales potential), and a typical response around town was "yeah that was okay, but they'll never win a title".


The Colts with Peyton have had to face the same thing, only getting to the sold-out season ticket level last year, despite Manning and Co. being a serious contender for many years before that. In fact it was so bad that a good portion of PLAYOFF tickets for the Titans game went to Titans fans. 12-4 division winner with a HOF QB, and the city couldn't even get all the playoff tickets bought in house, in good part because they didn't have a season ticket holder base of near to full sell-outs.


This rant is what I think about every time I hear the locals booing. IMO these fans HAVE NOT EARNED IT because frankly they don't support the nice guys even when they start winning. They need to be hit over the head with a hammer before they kinda think maybe it might be worth going to a game.

They have to get a freaking signed statement from god himself saying "yes, this team should win it all this year" before they think it might be interesting to go to some games.

That's not us, the fans that post at PD, Star, etc, but that's because we are rabid fans and don't represent the majority of the fanbase.

ChicagoJ
10-17-2006, 07:57 PM
I think its the opposite...

we've got teams that are oh-so-close because our fans are afraid to demand a champion.

In Pittsburgh, just four games after winning a SuperBowl, fans were starting to call for Batch to start ahead of Big Ben. Maybe a little too soon, but that's better than the "embrace mediocrity" approach that some of you advocate, even though I'm sure you'll find words that are more politically correct than "embrace mediocrity."

I have no problem with the fact that my standards are, apparently, higher than others.

:jester:

Pacesetter
10-17-2006, 08:13 PM
I think its the opposite...

we've got teams that are oh-so-close because our fans are afraid to demand a champion.

In Pittsburgh, just four games after winning a SuperBowl, fans were starting to call for Batch to start ahead of Big Ben. Maybe a little too soon, but that's better than the "embrace mediocrity" approach that some of you advocate, even though I'm sure you'll find words that are more politically correct than "embrace mediocrity."

I have no problem with the fact that my standards are, apparently, higher than others.

:jester:

I think that if the motivation is coming from their peers then you might have something Jay .... ;)

miller31
10-17-2006, 08:41 PM
Jackson will ALWAUS be booed! Before last season, nearly 50% of the fans were pissed off at his horrible performances night in and out. They also didnt like him for how he cryed like a little girl to the refs and when he sucked.

Now from this whole shooting thing, i wouldn't be surprised if 75% of the fans will boo him now. The shooting did not help. So from this, Jackson will always be BOOED. And i know i will be one of the thousands that will boo him untill he is traded.

*TRADE STEPHEN JACKSON*

Bball
10-17-2006, 09:01 PM
I also think it is a factor that Sjax is replacing RMiller. The fans would likely be tough with anyone replacing Reggie and making comparisons. But Sjax is making the transition extra tough for fans.

-Bball

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 09:07 PM
I also think it is a factor that Sjax is replacing RMiller. The fans would likely be tough with anyone replacing Reggie and making comparisons. But Sjax is making the transition extra tough for fans.

-Bball

I see what you are saying, but I dont agree with it at all.

I have never once compared Jax to Reggie, never even thought of it.

Now a more applicable comparison. Artest.

That about sums about how I feel about Jackson.

About the only thing Jay and I agreed on was we needed to cut ties with Artest (and that was after a long stay on the "pro-Artest" bandwagon and even a while on the "undecided" bandwagon) and now I am more then ready to see Jax gone

Destined4Greatness
10-17-2006, 09:11 PM
Jackson will ALWAUS be booed! Before last season, nearly 50% of the fans were pissed off at his horrible performances night in and out. They also didnt like him for how he cryed like a little girl to the refs and when he sucked.

Now from this whole shooting thing, i wouldn't be surprised if 75% of the fans will boo him now. The shooting did not help. So from this, Jackson will always be BOOED. And i know i will be one of the thousands that will boo him untill he is traded.

*TRADE STEPHEN JACKSON*

Now heres a class act all the way. My guess you have been a Pacer fan for like 5 minutes, and if they struggle again this year you will disavow all knowledge of them as a team.

Look to say Stephen was horrible is just flat out moronic, his performance as a cornerstone of a team was actually as good as if not better than 90% of this league, problem is when your cornerstone player is stephen Jackson, WTF do you expect to happen, GOOD THINGS, if so I have some land to sell you.

McKeyFan
10-17-2006, 09:17 PM
If I were there, I would boo him.

I came to one game in Indy last year--versus Detroit. I booed Jackson in that game.

This is tantamount to the citizens holding a massive rally/protest on the courthouse steps. When the authorities won't do the right/courageous thing, they get what they deserve, what nature demands.

Fool
10-17-2006, 09:24 PM
Now I'm not a Pacer fan or anything, but I read these boards multiple times per week and am usually abreast of issues with this team, and I can't recall ever seeing Jackson's troubles or fan dislike of him do to those troubles linked with his role as "Reggie's replacement".

I don't think its unfair to say that there was initial dislike of Jackson do to his role as the next Pacers SG, but a lot has happened since Reggie has retired and Jackson's unfitness to "take over" for Reggie doesn't seem to come up at all anymore (that I've seen).

Its typically JO that is linked to replacing Reggie at least in terms of being the team leader and face. I would agree with a statement that said people's disfavorable opinion of JO is strengthened by their poor opinion of his performance in the role of taking over for Reggie.

Shade
10-17-2006, 09:26 PM
If I were there, I would boo him.

I came to one game in Indy last year--versus Detroit. I booed Jackson in that game.

This is tantamount to the citizens holding a massive rally/protest on the courthouse steps. When the authorities won't do the right/courageous thing, they get what they deserve, what nature demands.

Booing Jack due to **** poor performance on the floor is completely different from booing him for the off-the-court incident. Even if he is a bonehead, he's still a Pacer, and it's not like he's badmouthing the fans or the city or anything. He's still going out there and trying to win for us.

Fool
10-17-2006, 09:29 PM
I would think booing bad performance would be worse than booing to show you don't want a player representing your team/state.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 09:34 PM
I would think booing bad performance would be worse than booing to show you don't want a player representing your team/state.

As a paying customer, I think both as acceptable.

Although as I said in a previous post I dont agree with booing a poor performance, but see nothing wrong with booing poor effort.

BlueNGold
10-17-2006, 09:36 PM
Booing Jack due to **** poor performance on the floor is completely different from booing him for the off-the-court incident. Even if he is a bonehead, he's still a Pacer, and it's not like he's badmouthing the fans or the city or anything. He's still going out there and trying to win for us.

His off-court actions affect whats going on the floor in a negative way for several reasons. It disrupts the team and leads to other players wondering if they will be packaged in a trade...similar to the Ron Ron fiasco. It will really impact us if he gets thrown in jail...obviously upsetting rotations. It also has to tick off some of the guys trying to make the team who think his potential departure affects their chance to make the team. There is no end to how much off court actions affect what we see on the floor. It also impacts the mood of the fans obviously...so the crowd is not as supportive. Yes, it matters.

Destined4Greatness
10-17-2006, 09:38 PM
As a paying customer, I think both as acceptable.

Although as I said in a previous post I dont agree with booing a poor performance, but see nothing wrong with booing poor effort.

Well you really can't blame a guy who takes the occasional game off, when you know everybody hates him. And yet Jack still goes out and tries every night for the team. JO missed 3 games for the flu, Jack goes to the hospital for a back injury and misses one game. I am not saying JO doesn't try, I am just saying Jack DOES.

And if you check out Jacks stats from the games he actually played 3rd fiddle his stats are quite good, actually better than quite. They are good.

Destined4Greatness
10-17-2006, 09:40 PM
His off-court actions affect whats going on the floor in a negative way for several reasons. It disrupts the team and leads to other players wondering if they will be packaged in a trade...similar to the Ron Ron fiasco. It will really impact us if he gets thrown in jail...obviously upsetting rotations. It also has to tick off some of the guys trying to make the team who think his potential departure affects their chance to make the team. There is no end to how much off court actions affect what we see on the floor. It also impacts the mood of the fans obviously...so the crowd is not as supportive. Yes, it matters.

Not like these describe JO as well. Actually if anything JO disrupts the rotation more than Jack, since JO misses so many games. DOUBLE STANDARD.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 09:44 PM
Well you really can't blame a guy who takes the occasional game off, when you know everybody hates him. And yet Jack still goes out and tries every night for the team. JO missed 3 games for the flu, Jack goes to the hospital for a back injury and misses one game. I am not saying JO doesn't try, I am just saying Jack DOES.

And if you check out Jacks stats from the games he actually played 3rd fiddle his stats are quite good, actually better than quite. They are good.

I have never been impressed with that argument.

These guys are "paid" to "play" a game 82 games a year. I have never been impressed because a guy does not miss many games. That should be the norm, sadly it is not for our franchise as of late.

As for Jack, the reasons I (and many others) have for disliking him are not all basketball related. At some point class is more important then basketball, even if only in a small way. After 11/19, I would think Pacers fans, or any fans, would understand this.

BlueNGold
10-17-2006, 09:45 PM
Not like these describe JO as well. Actually if anything JO disrupts the rotation more than Jack, since JO misses so many games. DOUBLE STANDARD.

There's a difference between someone having an injury and someone purposefully making bonehead decisions that impact the team. If JO or anyone on the team "pulls a Jack", boo him too.

I don't separate off-court and on-court actions because BOTH of them impact on-court performance.

Destined4Greatness
10-17-2006, 09:54 PM
OK start Booing JO, hes the one that punched some moron who posed zero threat to him, and is disrupting the team because of his court hearings.

Lets not forget the whole "The NBA age limit is racist"

Or the SUV in his name with Pot in it.


Yeah those are distractions.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 09:56 PM
OK start Booing JO, hes the one that punched some moron who posed zero threat to him, and is disrupting the team because of his court hearings.

:rolleyes:

How many times has any one brought up JO and his issues been brought up by the media? Now lets compare that to Jackson.

I wont even bring up the fact this is pre-season, and we already know the status of our "all star".

As others have said, you can just post "I hate JO" in every post, it will save you time on making up this other nonsense.

Unclebuck
10-17-2006, 09:57 PM
For those of you who have booed Jackson or say that you would if you go to a game, my question is for how long, for how many games. Is there an end game here.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 10:00 PM
For those of you who have booed Jackson or say that you would if you go to a game, my question is for how long, for how many games. Is there an end game here.

Talk is cheap UB.

I dont mean that in a bad way, just that as fans sometimes we let our emotions get the best of me.

I have always said I would boo (and I do) but even last week and out of 80,000 fans I would say at least half booed Mark Brunell numerous times, I did not boo untill the end of the fourth quarter when he threw the interception that lost the game for us.

As for Jackson, I would think I might boo him if he was having a bad game, but I am not one to boo every time a player has the ball. Granted I scream my guts out at football games, not sure how I would act at basketball games.

Just my .02

BlueNGold
10-17-2006, 10:02 PM
For those of you who have booed Jackson or say that you would if you go to a game, my question is for how long, for how many games. Is there an end game here.

Personally, boo'ing is not my style. But I would have no problem with other boo'ing him until he is exonerated of the current charges in a court of law. If he is convicted, there will be no boo'ing because he will be gone. If exonerated, it is time to move on IMO.

Unclebuck
10-17-2006, 10:06 PM
Personally, boo'ing is not my style. But I would have no problem with other boo'ing him until he is exonerated of the current charges in a court of law. If he is convicted, there will be no boo'ing because he will be gone. If exonerated, it is time to move on IMO.

So that means the whole season. Wow, I can't wait to go to games.

How about this, I pay good money to go to games and when Pacers fans boo their own team and their own players, it ruins the game for me.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 10:08 PM
So that means the whole season. Wow, I can't wait to go to games.

How about this, I pay good money to go to games and when Pacers fans boo their own team and their own players, it ruins the game for me.

I pay good money to watch the games and when the Pacers are constantly unable to succeed because of boneheaded players and boneheaded decisions by said boneheaded players, it ruins the game for me.

Hicks
10-17-2006, 10:15 PM
For what it's worth, I didn't boo when I attended Saturday's game (though my co-attendee did :D ). I don't know why I didn't. I'm through with Jackson, and I don't like what he seems to have done this time, especially when it comes following the past things I don't like that come with him. So I think I'm OK with people booing him, but I understand the argument that it hurts team morale to hear it (whether or not the booing is seemingly justified). I think for some (obviously myself being one of them), it comes down to personality. I probably feel very similarly to those that boo feel about Stephen Jackson, yet I probably won't boo him much if at all. I think booing is just some people's way of letting their frustrations out about this whole situation, and I'm not going to wag a finger at them or tell them to shut up because they do it.

BlueNGold
10-17-2006, 10:16 PM
So that means the whole season. Wow, I can't wait to go to games.

How about this, I pay good money to go to games and when Pacers fans boo their own team and their own players, it ruins the game for me.

Yes, it is a sad state of affairs. It ruins the games for me to see Jack on the floor at all. Heck, it makes me sick he has a long term contract.

Everyone has a different take on this. All, I can say the root cause of this problem is not the unhappy boo'ing fan. The blame rests on Mr. Jackson's shoulders.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 10:17 PM
Yes, it is a sad state of affairs. It ruins the games for me to see Jack on the floor at all. Heck, it makes me sick he has a long term contract.

Everyone has a different take on this. All, I can say the root cause of this problem is not the unhappy boo'ing fan. The blame rests on Mr. Jackson's shoulders.

Him and The Power To Be.

BlueNGold
10-17-2006, 10:21 PM
Him and The Power To Be.

Thanks for the addition. Right on target. I must say I don't like great fans like UB to be impacted by this, but the people need to be heard.

Unclebuck
10-17-2006, 10:33 PM
I'm buying earplugs

Hicks
10-17-2006, 10:34 PM
I'm buying earplugs

Might I also recommend this for total escape? ;)

http://www.sandcastle-i.com/images/shop/bucket.jpg

Unclebuck
10-17-2006, 10:40 PM
All I know is it looks to me the team is bad enough, the last thing I want is fans booing and ruining the evening even further for me, I'll be upset that the Pacers are losing, but the fans booing will make it even worse.

Hicks, I doubt that sand and bucket will pass through the pat down on the way into Conseco.


Off topic: I'm watching the Kings play the Lakers, and wow I wished we had Eric Musselman as our coach, I haven't seen the Kings play defense like this since, well since ever.

ChicagoJ
10-17-2006, 10:49 PM
I think that's an important point - SJax is being boo'ed, and deservedly so.

But the boo'ing is not for his benefit. Its for management's benefit. They're the ones overvaluing him, in the same way they overvalued Ron for too damn long. They are the ones who were not aggressive enough in moving him during the offseason.

They're greedy. They sold out, and it didn't work. And now they are reaping what they've sowed.

Its a shame that this whole experience is ruined for some fans like UB. But blaming the boo'ing fans is similar to blaming the victims. They're just having an honest, unfiltered reaction. And its good and healthy.

Most of the blame for the latest SJax incident rests squarely on the shoulders of Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird. They knew how unpopular he was with the ticket-buying public last spring. They vowed to make the team less unlikable. They made a bunch of peripheral changes without addressing the heart of the problem. They advertised, all across town, of a new/ revitalized team. They put out a feel good exclusive "interview" on their website that, a month later, proved to be a farce.

They've made their bed. Now they've got to sleep in it.

Unclebuck
10-17-2006, 10:55 PM
Those are good points Jay - shouldn't you be doing something other than posting in this forum, you are in New York City afterall - But I would have to go back and re-read threads to see who wanted to really get rid of Jackson at all costs and who only wanted to do a good deal to get rid of him. There were many who didn't want to do the rumored Jax for Maggette deal.

I know Jose was more than willing to do whatever it took to get rid of him. But Jay, would you have been willing to give up Harrison and Jackson and get nothing in return except a bad contract. Were you willing to do that two months ago. Because I think that is how low his trade value was before the incident, now we'd have to probably throw in a first round draft pick and even that would be enough.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 10:58 PM
Those are good points Jay - shouldn't you be doing something other than posting in this forum, you are in New York City afterall - But I would have to go bad a re-read threads to see who wanted to really get rid of Jackson at all costs and who only wanted to do a good deal to get rid of him.


Why does it matter?

We are fans, nothing more nothing less.

Larry Bird and Donnie Walsh are paid to make the decisions, and so far they are making ALL the same mistakes they made with Artest.

What is really scary is if Artest had not demanded a public trade request I am not sure his situation would be treated any differently.



I know Jose was more than willing to do whatever it took to get rid of him. But Jay, would you have been willing to give up Harrison and Jackson and get nothing in return except a bad contract. Were you willing to do that two months ago. Because I think that is how low his trade value was before the incident, now we'd have to probably throw in a first round draft pick and even that would be enough.

I have no clue how to judge "trade value", but I think you are right. Never in my life have I seen a player with "negative trade value". I think in this case, Jacksons has "negative trade value"

denyfizle
10-17-2006, 11:07 PM
In fact booing like that in public is likened to a child not getting his way, and throwing a temper tantrum.


I'm not sure what psych book you're writing, but if so, then every sports fan in the world is a child.

Booing is a privilege. It's a tradition handed down by our caveman ancestor sports fans. And in Jack's case like I stated, it's warranted until he plays the best basketball he's played his whole life or til he gets moved. He earned the treatment he's gotten. Just like Danny Granger and Reggie Miller have earned fans' adoration. That's just how it is.

BlueNGold
10-17-2006, 11:08 PM
I have no clue how to judge "trade value", but I think you are right. Never in my life have I seen a player with "negative trade value". I think in this case, Jacksons has "negative trade value"

Fortunately, GM's have enormous egos. One of them will think they can manage Jack properly...and have a love fest like Ron Ron in Sacremento. They will think they are buying low....

ChicagoJ
10-17-2006, 11:11 PM
Those are good points Jay - shouldn't you be doing something other than posting in this forum, you are in New York City afterall - But I would have to go back and re-read threads to see who wanted to really get rid of Jackson at all costs and who only wanted to do a good deal to get rid of him. There were many who didn't want to do the rumored Jax for Maggette deal.

I know Jose was more than willing to do whatever it took to get rid of him. But Jay, would you have been willing to give up Harrison and Jackson and get nothing in return except a bad contract. Were you willing to do that two months ago. Because I think that is how low his trade value was before the incident, now we'd have to probably throw in a first round draft pick and even that would be enough.

Just got in from the Hard Rock... got an early meeting in the am. I can't party all night like these young kids anymore. I've got a hunch I may be here a lot between now and mid-December, though. Since its been pouring rain I've never seen Times Square this empty.

Would I have thrown in Harrison and taken back a bad contract. I don't know. If I had the benefit of knowing that was the best I could do, I'd do it. That's the problem, they had *an* opportunity to do something, even if would've been a head scratcher.

Not pulling the trigger (that's now a really bad analogy when talking about SJax) was a big mistake though.

Just imagine... back in July... with the fans already fed up with SJax's on court issues (dumb play, bad shooting, turnovers, *****ing at refs, cussing at his coach), they could've dumped him in a deal like that and still given the fans something to rally around ("He's gone!! He's gone!!"). They blew it.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 11:11 PM
Fortunately, GM's have enormous egos. One of them will think they can manage Jack properly...and have a love fest like Ron Ron in Sacremento. They will think they are buying low....

That is the most frustrating thing for me. I am willing to bet TPTB have been offered a trade that many of us would have made, but they have over valued Jax much like they did Ron.

beast23
10-17-2006, 11:13 PM
So that means the whole season. Wow, I can't wait to go to games.

How about this, I pay good money to go to games and when Pacers fans boo their own team and their own players, it ruins the game for me.I've been working my tail off lately, so haven't even weighed in on "the Jackson thing". But, although I don't think I would boo Jackson personally, I really don't have a problem with those that do.

I've basically had it. There were a lot of us that wanted both Jackson and Tinsley gone this summer. I can live with Tinsley for a while, especially if he is learning anything at all by watching what Jackson is going through.

But for Jackson, the continued booing just lets the TPTB know just how fed up the local folks are. I could care less who likes Jackson and who doesn't. Rightly or wrongly, he has been categorized by the local fans. And the perception, including mine, is that his values are not consistent with those of the vast majority of the fans that sit in the seats.

The way he carries himself, his quick temper, his scowl... I will totally confess that I stereotyped him as "a thug" long ago. And quite frankly, he has done nothing over the past two years to change my mind.

He doesn't really relate to the fans, and his previous disrespectful behavior toward his coach just magnifies the degree to which he is stereotyped.

We've heard Bird and Walsh repeatedly state that they will not allow the distractions of the past to continue. But what can be more distracting than having your own fans boo your team, or at least one of its players?

If you are blinded by some form of love or fanatical support of Jackson, I suppose you can blame the fans. But I think the fans are providing their message in the only forum open to them. And that is by booing at the games.

So what would I do? The first thing I'd do is sit him, and tell him that as far as I'm concerned, he's played his last game as a Pacer. And, even though it would cost millions, I'd tell him the only chance he has of playing over the remainder of his contract is to take a buyout and look for employment elsewhere. The leverage for him taking the buyout is that he might be convicted of a felony, and if so, I'd immedatlely suspend him without pay and do everything I could legally to void his contract, which might result in his receiving nothing.

But one thing is for certain. Even if Jackson had been gone six months ago, that would have been too late for me.

P.S.
Whoa!!! My use of the word "you" above by no means is meant to be directed at Buck, I know that he has wanted Jackson gone as long as I have.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 11:13 PM
Just got in from the Hard Rock... got an early meeting in the am. I can't party all night like these young kids anymore. I've got a hunch I may be here a lot between now and mid-December, though. Since its been pouring rain I've never seen Times Square this empty.

Would I have thrown in Harrison and taken back a bad contract. I don't know. If I had the benefit of knowing that was the best I could do, I'd do it. That's the problem, they had *an* opportunity to do something, even if would've been a head scratcher.

Not pulling the trigger (that's now a really bad analogy when talking about SJax) was a big mistake though.

Just imagine... back in July... with the fans already fed up with SJax's on court issues (dumb play, bad shooting, turnovers, *****ing at refs, cussing at his coach), they could've dumped him in a deal like that and still given the fans something to rally around ("He's gone!! He's gone!!"). They blew it.

Ths is getting scary.

I agree with everything you have said in this post (and most of what you have said in this thread).

BlueNGold
10-17-2006, 11:17 PM
That is the most frustrating thing for me. I am willing to bet TPTB have been offered a trade that many of us would have made, but they have over valued Jax much like they did Ron.

I think they are ready to cry uncle now, but it's JMO. Unfortunately, he may not be tradeable now due to legal issues. I am certain he could have been traded this summer. It's too bad. They rolled the dice and it certainly came up snake eyes.

vapacersfan
10-17-2006, 11:22 PM
I think they are ready to cry uncle now, but it's JMO. Unfortunately, he may not be tradeable now due to legal issues. I am certain he could have been traded this summer. It's too bad. They rolled the dice and it certainly came up snake eyes.

I meant to insert "over the summer" in my past post, that was my mistake.

Yeah, I agree with you about them gambling. They took a huge risk, and so far it has backfired big time.

SycamoreKen
10-17-2006, 11:36 PM
You really shouldn't have deleted that post, Ken. I was gonna comment that I agreed, but I thought it would have been obvious and didn't.

Thanks, but I made the same comments in another thread and rehashing them here seemed too much.

ABADays
10-17-2006, 11:49 PM
I'm buying earplugs

:notlisten

grace
10-18-2006, 12:36 PM
The booing should be for Bird!

:grinyes:

grace
10-18-2006, 12:45 PM
The booing will eventually stop once people realize how dumb they look when they do it.

As a former season ticket holder to the Pacers, Colts, and Purdue Football I can tell you that people don't realize how dumb they are.

As for people booing here's a novel thought: if the player or team is playing particularly badly go ahead and boo. If not keep your mouth shut.

JayRedd
10-18-2006, 12:46 PM
As for people booing here's a novel thought: if the player or team is playing particularly badly go ahead and boo. If not keep your mouth shut.

Except in the case of ARod....Continue to boo whenever you see him.

vapacersfan
10-18-2006, 12:48 PM
As a former season ticket holder to the Pacers, Colts, and Purdue Football I can tell you that people don't realize how dumb they are.

As for people booing here's a novel thought: if the player or team is playing particularly badly go ahead and boo. If not keep your mouth shut.

How about if you paid good money to go to the games, boo whenever the
:censored: you please.

PacerMan
10-18-2006, 12:48 PM
So do you think TPTB are too stupid to figure out that the fans aren't happy with Jax, and the only way they will figure it out is if the fans boo him. Do many of you really think that little of DW and Bird.

It's getting there. And I don't think they gauged HOW PO'd lots of fans are.

grace
10-18-2006, 12:59 PM
*TRADE STEPHEN JACKSON*

You be the GM and find someone who will take him off the Pacers' hands.

grace
10-18-2006, 01:04 PM
I'm buying earplugs

Kegboy has a pair. As far as I'm concerned they don't work worth :censored:

grace
10-18-2006, 01:08 PM
Except in the case of ARod....Continue to boo whenever you see him.

Personally I don't give a flying flock what he does.

grace
10-18-2006, 01:10 PM
I love you to. Ill talk to you later

How about if you paid good money to go to the games, boo whenever the
:censored: you please.

Does that mean because Jay's tickets cost more than Magic Rat's Jay gets to boo more or his boos mean more? I'm confused. And done with this subject.

ABADays
10-18-2006, 01:31 PM
Does that mean because Jay's tickets cost more than Magic Rat's Jay gets to boo more or his boos mean more? I'm confused. And done with this subject.

Yes Grace Jay's boos do mean more. It has nothing to do with money though. It has to do with Jay is Jay and Magic Rat is Magic Rat.

Kestas
10-18-2006, 01:31 PM
Seriously, it's just ridiculous. It's at the point where Gnome and I are the only ones actively cheering Jack, and that's just bizarre. :disturbed


well, management need to take notice, imho. I'd boo too if my team had gangstas, who smoke weed. in fact, my team would never have gangstas who smoke weed, coz they'd be fired the same day such facts would become known (to the public at least).
although Pacers probably need Jackson (and Tinsley, unfortunately - he's the same type of bird, imho), so they need to think of something smarter than his apologies to calm down the masses..

BillS
10-18-2006, 01:33 PM
Does that mean because Jay's tickets cost more than Magic Rat's Jay gets to boo more or his boos mean more? I'm confused. And done with this subject.

It just means Jay has more expensive booze.

grace
10-18-2006, 01:38 PM
Yes Grace Jay's boos do mean more. It has nothing to do with money though. It has to do with Jay is Jay and Magic Rat is Magic Rat.

Ouch.

MagicRat
10-18-2006, 01:39 PM
Does that mean because Jay's tickets cost more than Magic Rat's Jay gets to boo more or his boos mean more? I'm confused. And done with this subject.

If I still had tickets my boos wouldn't matter anyway because they couldn't hear me unless I brought a bullhorn.


Yes Grace Jay's boos do mean more. It has nothing to do with money though. It has to do with Jay is Jay and Magic Rat is Magic Rat.

:whistle:


Ouch.

My tickets and I have been taking a beating lately........:fight:

ABADays
10-18-2006, 01:48 PM
:whistle:

I wondered where that little guy went.

Bball
10-18-2006, 01:49 PM
Does that mean because Jay's tickets cost more than Magic Rat's Jay gets to boo more or his boos mean more? I'm confused. And done with this subject.


It simply means Jay doesn't have to boo as loudly to be heard just as well as MR (who has to boo much more loudly for the same effect(!!!! Once again, no help or thanks to Jay needed) on the court (and in the ears of TPTB).

:D

-Bball

grace
10-18-2006, 01:50 PM
My tickets and I have been taking a beating lately........:fight:

You and your tickets need to stay away from Club Rio. :rimshot:

ABADays
10-18-2006, 01:58 PM
It just means Jay has more expensive booze.

DUH . . . I just got that. My kind of humor!

Fool
10-18-2006, 02:00 PM
Wow, I completely missed it too. Very nice indeed.

SycamoreKen
10-18-2006, 02:03 PM
You and your tickets need to stay away from Club Rio. :rimshot:

Hey, that's the only place those tickets and a guy that buys them can afford.:sadbanana

ChicagoJ
10-18-2006, 02:05 PM
I'm not sure my tickets cost more than MR's in the first place. I think we're both in the $49 seats.

I'd say that if MR is inclined to boo, that it probably means more. God knows I've boo'ed this team a lot over the past few seasons, but I keep coming back for more. Not sure he's been as vocal of a critic.

MagicRat
10-18-2006, 02:16 PM
I'd say that if MR is inclined to boo, that it probably means more. God knows I've boo'ed this team a lot over the past few seasons, but I keep coming back for more. Not sure he's been as vocal of a critic.


I typically have youngsters with me. They're taught to only boo the opposition. Or calls that go against the home team whether they're good calls or not.........

vapacersfan
10-18-2006, 03:27 PM
Does that mean because Jay's tickets cost more than Magic Rat's Jay gets to boo more or his boos mean more? I'm confused. And done with this subject.

No.

I thought I was pretty straight forward with what I said, and I stand by that. It has nothing to do with how much you spend or where you sit, as a paying customer you are allowed to show how you feel. If you want to boo, then boo your heart out. That does not make anyone look "stupid" or "dumb", it makes them customers who are giving feedback. When they are happy they cheer, when they are mad they boo.

ChicagoJ
10-18-2006, 04:54 PM
I typically have youngsters with me. They're taught to only boo the opposition. Or calls that go against the home team whether they're good calls or not.........

Those are good rules for them to live by.

I tried to teach this one:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2068

:innocent:

Pacesetter
10-18-2006, 05:05 PM
No.

I thought I was pretty straight forward with what I said, and I stand by that. It has nothing to do with how much you spend or where you sit, as a paying customer you are allowed to show how you feel. If you want to boo, then boo your heart out. That does not make anyone look "stupid" or "dumb", it makes them customers who are giving feedback. When they are happy they cheer, when they are mad they boo.

How many games do you plan on going to THIS year at Conseco?

Fool
10-18-2006, 05:10 PM
Those are good rules for them to live by.

I tried to teach this one:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2068

:innocent:

The opening post in that thread might be one of the greatest posts I have ever seen.

Since86
10-18-2006, 05:16 PM
Why should that matter? Because you only go to one game, you only get one boo? Is that how it should be ran? Just going to games doesn't bring the Ps money. How many jerseys has he bought? How many Ps t-shirts/shorts has he bought.

He should be able to boo as much as he wants, even if he only goes to one game. Being a fan, makes you emotionally attached to the team/organization. If you're upset with someone you're in a relationship, not even intimate but even a friendship, and you have time/money/emotions invested in it, and they screw up, don't you tell them about it?

It doesn't matter if you're a season ticket holder, or you go to one game. Some people are better off financially than others, but that doesn't mean the, I hate to use this word, poorer person doesn't get a voice about their opinion. Because they simply are a fan, and have an emotional tie to the team gives you that right/priviledge.

You stand up for what you believe, and you voice you're opinion if you feel strongly enough about it.

Booing, to me, is like cheering. You cheer when you like what you see, you boo when you don't. Should someone start a thread asking when the cheering is going to stop? You reward positive play/actions. You show you're displeasure with bad play/actions. Jax just happens to embody both bad play and bad actions.

Sports players and team image doesn't end once they leave the lockerroom. That's why there is drug tests for drugs that aren't performance enhancing. That's why Robinson in the NFL just got suspended for a year for a DUI. Off court actions carry punishments/rewards. Players get awards for being a great community leader. The opposite should occur when they're not.

Bball
10-18-2006, 05:43 PM
For the record. I've never booed a Pacer player. I have thrown my hands up, rolled my eyes, looked to the rafters, and/or shook my head in disgust at times. I've turned to the person beside me and said "Pass the damn ball" or even "WTF was THAT?" ....but I've never yelled that stuff out (let alone toward the court) and I've never booed the home team.

But I certainly understand... That's why I have a hard time coming down too hard on the boo birds. It's also why I asked in my season ending wrapup how the Pacers could keep Sjax after he'd so lost the fanbase. This scenario was always bubbling under the surface waiting to erupt. If it hadn't been a fight at Club Rio it probably would have been some shouting match on the bench or on the court with players/coaches/refs that would've negated the PR campaign and turned it into a joke.

We kept the core intact and it was the core where the fanbase has had problems with the team.

I'm still not convinced JO's lack of leadership ability still isn't part of the problem. ...continually creating a vacuum. But then to be a leader you have to have people willing to follow (and dedicated to the same overriding goals). ...And we certainly didn't give JO any help in that regard.



-Bball

Hicks
10-18-2006, 06:09 PM
Does yelling loudly "SHUT UP!" at David Harrison after he got a technical foul last Saturday considered booing? ;)

grace
10-18-2006, 06:56 PM
Does yelling loudly "SHUT UP!" at David Harrison after he got a technical foul last Saturday considered booing? ;)

No, it's considered coaching from the stands. Maybe he'll listen to you because from the sounds of it he's not listening to the coaches on the bench.

Shade
10-18-2006, 07:55 PM
well, management need to take notice, imho. I'd boo too if my team had gangstas, who smoke weed. in fact, my team would never have gangstas who smoke weed, coz they'd be fired the same day such facts would become known (to the public at least).
although Pacers probably need Jackson (and Tinsley, unfortunately - he's the same type of bird, imho), so they need to think of something smarter than his apologies to calm down the masses..

Managment is well aware of the fan's feelings about Jack, but they're not going to cut him. That's a disaster when dealing with FAs in the future, not to mention that the player's union would be all over it.

Jack is hardly a "gangsta."

And I'll easily bet that there are other Pacers that have, or currently do, smoke(d) weed.

ABADays
10-18-2006, 08:04 PM
Quit being a hypocrit. I've heard you boo Pizza Hut!

vapacersfan
10-19-2006, 12:04 AM
How many games do you plan on going to THIS year at Conseco?

Not sure why it matters, but 1

vapacersfan
10-19-2006, 12:08 AM
Why should that matter? Because you only go to one game, you only get one boo? Is that how it should be ran? Just going to games doesn't bring the Ps money. How many jerseys has he bought? How many Ps t-shirts/shorts has he bought.

He should be able to boo as much as he wants, even if he only goes to one game. Being a fan, makes you emotionally attached to the team/organization. If you're upset with someone you're in a relationship, not even intimate but even a friendship, and you have time/money/emotions invested in it, and they screw up, don't you tell them about it?

It doesn't matter if you're a season ticket holder, or you go to one game. Some people are better off financially than others, but that doesn't mean the, I hate to use this word, poorer person doesn't get a voice about their opinion. Because they simply are a fan, and have an emotional tie to the team gives you that right/priviledge.

You stand up for what you believe, and you voice you're opinion if you feel strongly enough about it.

Booing, to me, is like cheering. You cheer when you like what you see, you boo when you don't. Should someone start a thread asking when the cheering is going to stop? You reward positive play/actions. You show you're displeasure with bad play/actions. Jax just happens to embody both bad play and bad actions.

Sports players and team image doesn't end once they leave the lockerroom. That's why there is drug tests for drugs that aren't performance enhancing. That's why Robinson in the NFL just got suspended for a year for a DUI. Off court actions carry punishments/rewards. Players get awards for being a great community leader. The opposite should occur when they're not.

Great post!

FWIW, I think I have this board board is Pacers shoes/jerseys bought on a yearly basis. Its kind of sad, actually. I got a email from the HC gift shop, and the manager knew me personally and knew my email address.

geetee
10-19-2006, 03:42 AM
What if you discover that Jax actually plays better when he doesn't get boo'd? Let's say we discover that out on the road, his game is markedly better as opposed to at home where he continually gets boo'd.

Do you, in this case, give it up for the team and stay quiet (possibly cheer) so that Jax feels more comfortable and plays better basketball at Conseco(which could lead us to wins)... or do you continue to boo because of your principles, thus ignoring the possibility that these boos might affect how our players play or the outcome of the game?

Kestas
10-19-2006, 03:53 AM
Jack is hardly a "gangsta."

And I'll easily bet that there are other Pacers that have, or currently do, smoke(d) weed.

it doesn't matter who he is. realisticaly speaking, the public only cares about image. they get an illusion, that they know a public person (a celebrity, if you like), but all they know is his/her image.
Jackson can be an embodiment of an angel in real life, but if his image will be bad, the club who has him will suffer badly. take me for example - I have a terrible image of Jackson. a dumb and lazy gangsta on dope.

regarding weed.. well, that's sad for the Pacers.

Hicks
10-19-2006, 06:44 AM
What if you discover that Jax actually plays better when he doesn't get boo'd? Let's say we discover that out on the road, his game is markedly better as opposed to at home where he continually gets boo'd.

Do you, in this case, give it up for the team and stay quiet (possibly cheer) so that Jax feels more comfortable and plays better basketball at Conseco(which could lead us to wins)... or do you continue to boo because of your principles, thus ignoring the possibility that these boos might affect how our players play or the outcome of the game?

You mean like how Tinker Bell comes back when you clap?

geetee
10-19-2006, 09:51 AM
You mean like how Tinker Bell comes back when you clap?
Hey Hick's
If you didn't know how to answer the question then why say anything?

I wonder if you would of had this same reply if I was a regular poster.

Go ahead and get your last word in, I won't be posting again.

ChicagoJ
10-19-2006, 11:12 AM
Hey Hick's
If you didn't know how to answer the question then why say anything?

I wonder if you would of had this same reply if I was a regular poster.

Go ahead and get your last word in, I won't be posting again.

a) I'm not going to speak for Hicks, but I doubt that he meant anything malicious in his response. Hopefully you'll reconsider.

b) because you raised a good point. I guess the answer depends on your long-term and short-term views of this team. If you think they're okay, long-term, with SJax, maybe you do stop booing. If you absolutely think he needs to be playing for another team, you can live with losses this season to state your case with boos.

JayRedd
10-19-2006, 11:15 AM
What if you discover that Jax actually plays better when he doesn't get boo'd? Let's say we discover that out on the road, his game is markedly better as opposed to at home where he continually gets boo'd.

Do you, in this case, give it up for the team and stay quiet (possibly cheer) so that Jax feels more comfortable and plays better basketball at Conseco(which could lead us to wins)... or do you continue to boo because of your principles, thus ignoring the possibility that these boos might affect how our players play or the outcome of the game?

ARod is about to be committed to a mental institution because of the treatment he's getting in the Bronx. The booing there really has almost become a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy: ARod makes an error, crowd boos, ARod tries too hard in reponse and strikes out with runners on, crowd boos, ARod makes an error because he's thinking instead of instinctively reacting, crowd boos, etc, etc, etc.

So I think it can have a dramtic effect. Probably moreso in baseball though where there's way too much time to think in between the "action."

What it will do to Jack? I have no idea. But maybe a mental institution isn't such a bad idea in his case, anyway. What does the CBA say about contracts and asylums?

ABADays
10-19-2006, 12:42 PM
What if you discover that Jax actually plays better when he doesn't get boo'd? Let's say we discover that out on the road, his game is markedly better as opposed to at home where he continually gets boo'd.

Do you, in this case, give it up for the team and stay quiet (possibly cheer) so that Jax feels more comfortable and plays better basketball at Conseco(which could lead us to wins)... or do you continue to boo because of your principles, thus ignoring the possibility that these boos might affect how our players play or the outcome of the game?

If it helped up his trade value the boos would stop in a heartbeat just to get his behind out of here.

SycamoreKen
10-19-2006, 02:46 PM
What if you discover that Jax actually plays better when he doesn't get boo'd? Let's say we discover that out on the road, his game is markedly better as opposed to at home where he continually gets boo'd.

Do you, in this case, give it up for the team and stay quiet (possibly cheer) so that Jax feels more comfortable and plays better basketball at Conseco(which could lead us to wins)... or do you continue to boo because of your principles, thus ignoring the possibility that these boos might affect how our players play or the outcome of the game?

I would feel a lot better about Jackson if he had the maturity to step up and admit he was wrong, he is sorry he embarrassed the team, and that he should have walked away or never been in the position in the first place. He needs to be a man and take total responsibility. The gun shots are what made this news and that he had control over. But, as I've learned first had with many of his generation and younger, image, proving your toughness, and keeping street cred. is more important than doing the right thing.

If I could go to a home game I probably wouldn't boo him. I would just not react either way. To be honest, until the case is settled, I'm not sure if I could cheer for him. I don't know.

ALF68
10-19-2006, 02:53 PM
What's done is done. The booing pissed me off tonight. It's completely unnecessary and embarrassing! I deliberately took every opportunity to stand up and cheer for Jackson. He made a bad judgement call, that he'll probably never make again. I'll cheer for him more now than ever because I can't stand people booing one of our guys!

I suppose that you would cheer for Jack the Ripper if he was one of our guys.

odeez
10-19-2006, 03:02 PM
Yes, booing Jackson is a waist of time. I understand people are frustrated with the off the court crap. But he does play hard and that is alll we can ask of our players. Until he is traded, he has my full support! Go JAX!!!

RWB
10-19-2006, 03:07 PM
Yes, booing Jackson is a waist of time. I understand people are frustrated with the off the court crap. But he does play hard and that is alll we can ask of our players. Until he is traded, he has my full support! Go JAX!!!

Guess we cancel each other out odeez. Until he is traded, I no longer give him any support. ;)

However, I will not boo the man, but like others that's just me.

odeez
10-19-2006, 03:16 PM
RWB,

I respect ur lack of support, beside him taking bad shots from 3 range. I do love when JAX attacks the rim and right now we don't have much coming from the outside, so I support... but for how long I don't know.

Putnam
10-19-2006, 03:16 PM
What if you discover that Jax actually plays better when he doesn't get boo'd? Let's say we discover that out on the road, his game is markedly better as opposed to at home where he continually gets boo'd.

Do you, in this case, give it up for the team and stay quiet (possibly cheer) so that Jax feels more comfortable and plays better basketball at Conseco(which could lead us to wins)... or do you continue to boo because of your principles, thus ignoring the possibility that these boos might affect how our players play or the outcome of the game?




No one yet has given geetee a straight forward answer, so I'll go first.



I'd adhere to principles.



.

RWB
10-19-2006, 03:18 PM
RWB,

I respect ur lack of support, beside him taking bad shots from 3 range. I do love when JAX attacks the rim and right now we don't have much coming from the outside, so I support... but for how long I don't know.

Had to welcome you into the club friend by being the first to disagree. :D

Since86
10-19-2006, 03:31 PM
Yes, booing Jackson is a waist of time. I understand people are frustrated with the off the court crap. But he does play hard and that is alll we can ask of our players. Until he is traded, he has my full support! Go JAX!!!

No, no, no, and NO!

Playing hard is not all you can ask. It's not even half of what you can ask.

If a player makes stupid pass after stupid pass, or takes stupid shots, you don't stand up and cheer while he busts his *** trying to get back on defense. You don't look at the person sitting beside you and tell them to stop booing by saying "Atleast he plays hard!"

No, that's absurd.

The very first thing you ask, is ask them to play smart and with a purpose. It doesn't matter how hard you play, if you don't execute a gameplan. Hustling up and down the court and playing hurt would be stupid, because it would be pointless. You play to win, and whoever plays the hardest isn't always the winner.

That's a speech you give you're elementary players, when they're just learning the game. "Go out there and play your hardest, and you'll all be winners." Sorry, but that doesn't work past 7th grade.

On top of that, they have a responsibility to their team to actually be eligible to play. I'm not going to go on a rant about not going to strip clubs, or doing actions that are immoral (no I'm not saying attending a strip club is immoral), but you can't play if you're in prison, and that is exactly what's staring Jackson in the face.

What good does playing hard do, if he can only play during rec time at the Marion co. jail?

odeez
10-19-2006, 03:52 PM
Since86,

You make alot of good points and I hear you. All I am really saying is that I respect that JAX plays hard and that last year he was on the court and playing all most every game. But one might say well he should, he is making MILLS. And I do agree with that there is more than just playing hard, you must play smart. And yelling or arguing with refs gets you no where. If he was traded today, I would not be upset. But as long as he is here and plays every night and is effective, and yes, makes some smart bball decisions, then I have have to support him. Though I know this is not a popular stance right now.

In the end we all want the same things here, a winning team.

Since86
10-19-2006, 04:06 PM
IMHO, Jackson has tarnished this team's image even worse than Ron, and I can't support that.

Cleansing the team of Ron, and their recent PR campaign revolved around making this team responsible for their actions, and revamping the Pacers image from troublemakers to good hard working ball players.

When you take a slogan like "It's up to us," and take out multiple billboards and TV ad space you've got to be able to believe in what you sell. That has failed miserably. A salesperson who believes in what their selling, will sell rings around the salesperson that doesn't believe. The Pacers can't even buy into their own PR crap. And yes, I'll stand by calling it crap.

They had two opportunities to believe in this PR campaign, 1) trading away your problems 2) keeping what most considered "good" guys. Didn't do either.

Now, they have/had a third opportunity to make us believe in the crap they dished out by sitting Jax down, and they haven't done it.

Talk is cheap, and all they're doing is talking.

odeez
10-19-2006, 04:19 PM
VERY TRUE :cry:

I guess only time will tell.

ABADays
10-19-2006, 05:08 PM
RWB,

I respect ur lack of support, beside him taking bad shots from 3 range. I do love when JAX attacks the rim and right now we don't have much coming from the outside, so I support... but for how long I don't know.

By the time he attacks the rim the ball is usually on the opposite way down the court from the guy that took it from him.

Shade
10-19-2006, 11:18 PM
The boos are slowly starting to die off. There were a few at the intros, but not many, and they were not heard from again the rest of the night. I expect a major spike for the first couple home games, though.

Jack also had a decent game tonight, with a couple nice assists. He needs to take his shots more fluidly and quickly in the offense, too. He tends to shoot better when he doesn't take a few seconds to square up and think about it. And he hasn't been bytching constantly out there, either.

Shade
10-19-2006, 11:20 PM
IMHO, Jackson has tarnished this team's image even worse than Ron, and I can't support that.

Not a chance in hell. Nobody has tarnished this FRANCHISE more than Ron Artest.

Pacesetter
10-19-2006, 11:39 PM
Must not have been many PD'ers in Conseco tonight, because Stevie rarely got anything other than applause? Or, perhaps PD'ers are few in numbers!

:loser:

Roaming Gnome
10-19-2006, 11:51 PM
As I mentioned before...This SJax thing is quickly becoming old news. Yeah, he will get boo'd by some, but after the first couple reg season games....the boo'ing will just be reduced to grumbling in the stands. As is the norm, already!

Pacesetter
10-19-2006, 11:56 PM
As I mentioned before...This SJax thing is quickly becoming old news. Yeah, he will get boo'd by some, but after the first couple reg season games....the boo'ing will just be reduced to grumbling in the stands. As is the norm, already!

I thought it was funny. Jackson even had a bad shooting night, and there were few boos IF ANY.

Roaming Gnome
10-20-2006, 12:07 AM
As Shade mentioned....I didn't hear any after the starting line-ups. The boo's during the starting line ups were pretty faint anyway. The calls on the post game call in show even lightened up quite a bit moving from anger to...lets just move on.

grace
10-20-2006, 01:17 PM
Not a chance in hell. Nobody has tarnished this FRANCHISE more than Ron Artest.


That depends on what you see when you look at the brawl. Some people see Ron going charging into the stands. Others see Stephen repeatedly punching the guy in the stands. Me? I see six players in Pacers Jerseys almost beating the Orlando Magic.

Ransom
10-20-2006, 01:33 PM
:delurks:

I was at the game (Club level sec 118, Never been there before, NICE!), and I agree there were only a few boos in the starting lineups but none after that.

Unfortunately, there were two really annoying, drunk Bobcat fans behind us who spent most of the game A: Screaming for Adam Morrison to look at them, B: Chanting "RIO!! Ta ta ta!!" at Jackson.