PDA

View Full Version : I don't get why people boo at the games for things off the court



Destined4Greatness
10-15-2006, 01:22 AM
It doesn't help the team one damn bit, the management knows people don't like Jack. But going and Booing Jack a member of this team for nothing he is doing on the court at that moment(Whether or not that helps a player is debatable) is just moronic. It doesn't make the team better.

I really feel people who go to games with a predetermined plan of booing one of their own players are like one of the worst fans. I don't like JO or Jamaal but I still cheer for them when I go to a game. And until they are traded, or sign with another team I will continue to not boo them, and screw with thier head, hurting the team.

Jermaniac
10-15-2006, 01:25 AM
I dont agree with it either, you are booing them but you really want them to win games. Well booing damn sure is not going to help anyone win games.

Leisure Suit Larry
10-15-2006, 01:45 AM
Great post! I'm glad someone agrees.

Just
10-15-2006, 01:47 AM
I didn't boo.

Anthem
10-15-2006, 01:49 AM
Did you see his line?

Who says it was for what happened off the court?

Destined4Greatness
10-15-2006, 02:03 AM
Did you see his line?

Who says it was for what happened off the court?

Because this is dating back to last season, when he got booed pretty much everytime he touched the ball. I remember once he hit a 3 pointer and people booed, I was like WTF morons. Sarunas just TO'ed and you didn't do ****.

Just
10-15-2006, 02:05 AM
Why does Saras get so many cheers? He's horrible

Peck
10-15-2006, 02:18 AM
Sadly, or after looking at the box score maybe mercifully, I was not able to attend the game because I was in Ohio so I was not there when Jax was introduced.

I don't boo very often & just as often as not I don't cheer either, just ask Hicks he'll tell you I pretty much sit there like a bump on a log unless something sparks me.

However I just want to be the first person to disagree with the premise of not booing off-court behavior. IMO, it does not make them the worst kind of fans.

No, the worst kind are the ones who only pay attention when the team is in a deep playoff run & stay home & not watch the rest of the time.

Let me ask you a question. How is it that management knows the fans don't like Jax? I can assure you that it is not because they have mental telepathy.

It's because the fans boo'd Jackson long & hard last season. Often times, IMO, unfairly but that is not my decision to make. But boo him they did.

Now let's take your premise for a min. & say that every fan should just cheer with unabashed enthusiasm whenever any person wearing blue & gold walks on the floor.

Let's just use Jax as an example.

Let's say the fieldhouse expolded with applause for Jax, even though let's say roughly 75% of those in attendance no longer wanted him on the team.

How then would management know that the fans were unhappy with Jackson? If you only cheer no matter what then your voice is not heard.

Is it fair to the other players? Probably not, but I think they are smart enough to know that the fans are directing this at one player & one player alone.

This guy has taken what should have been a fresh new start & dipped it in the same old stink of previous conflicts. So are fans wrong to be upset? I say hell no.

IMO, the fans would only have themselves to blame if they didn't let tptb know how they felt. I'm sure for everyone involved (minus Jackson) would prefer the fans to do this as opposed to the other way they could protest. They could just stay home.

As far as screwing with the team & messing with their heads I'd say that went out the window with the magic of 3 a.m.

I am differant than most people but I just feel that people who go to games with the mindset of not telling the truth about how they feel only hurts the team.

IMO, we should never boo when a team is just beating us. We should never boo when a guy or the team is busting their @ss trying but just not able to get it done.

But lack of effort, lack of desire & yes stupidity off court justifies a good old fashioned boo.

Like I said often times last season I thought the fans were wrong to boo him, but it's their choice.

Eindar
10-15-2006, 02:32 AM
Sadly, or after looking at the box score maybe mercifully, I was not able to attend the game because I was in Ohio so I was not there when Jax was introduced.

I don't boo very often & just as often as not I don't cheer either, just ask Hicks he'll tell you I pretty much sit there like a bump on a log unless something sparks me.

However I just want to be the first person to disagree with the premise of not booing off-court behavior. IMO, it does not make them the worst kind of fans.

No, the worst kind are the ones who only pay attention when the team is in a deep playoff run & stay home & not watch the rest of the time.

Let me ask you a question. How is it that management knows the fans don't like Jax? I can assure you that it is not because they have mental telepathy.

It's because the fans boo'd Jackson long & hard last season. Often times, IMO, unfairly but that is not my decision to make. But boo him they did.

Now let's take your premise for a min. & say that every fan should just cheer with unabashed enthusiasm whenever any person wearing blue & gold walks on the floor.

Let's just use Jax as an example.

Let's say the fieldhouse expolded with applause for Jax, even though let's say roughly 75% of those in attendance no longer wanted him on the team.

How then would management know that the fans were unhappy with Jackson? If you only cheer no matter what then your voice is not heard.

Is it fair to the other players? Probably not, but I think they are smart enough to know that the fans are directing this at one player & one player alone.

This guy has taken what should have been a fresh new start & dipped it in the same old stink of previous conflicts. So are fans wrong to be upset? I say hell no.

IMO, the fans would only have themselves to blame if they didn't let tptb know how they felt. I'm sure for everyone involved (minus Jackson) would prefer the fans to do this as opposed to the other way they could protest. They could just stay home.

As far as screwing with the team & messing with their heads I'd say that went out the window with the magic of 3 a.m.

I am differant than most people but I just feel that people who go to games with the mindset of not telling the truth about how they feel only hurts the team.

IMO, we should never boo when a team is just beating us. We should never boo when a guy or the team is busting their @ss trying but just not able to get it done.

But lack of effort, lack of desire & yes stupidity off court justifies a good old fashioned boo.

Like I said often times last season I thought the fans were wrong to boo him, but it's their choice.

I agree with this post 100%

For the record, the recap of the game said he didn't start getting booed until he started playing bad.

Unclebuck
10-15-2006, 05:49 AM
For the record, the recap of the game said he didn't start getting booed until he started playing bad.

I was there and they did boo him each time (3) he came into the game, I didn't hear any booing while he was playing though.

I don't think I've ever booed the Pacers team or any Pacers players ever and I often get mad when I hear fans boo the home team or any of the players.

#31
10-15-2006, 06:14 AM
Well, im not booing, but when & while i watch these guys im mostly holding my head and have a very weird face expression and sometimes i maybe scream and then i finally say something.. but its not romantic words. :) And thats NOT because "for things off the court" believe me!

mildlysane
10-15-2006, 09:21 AM
I think people boo because of the financial divide between them and the players and the perceived mental divide as well. I think people pay a ton of money to take their families out on a nice outing, only to see a rich boy-thug-wanna-be who probably has more money in the lockerroom, than the family has in the bank, acting like a fool. If they wanted to see rich-"gangsta" wanna-bes, they would have stayed home and watch "Cribs" on MTV and saved some money....just my $.02.

Knucklehead Warrior
10-15-2006, 11:33 AM
Maybe they had to boo at the game because the other night they weren't at 38th and Lafayette Rd.

ABADays
10-15-2006, 12:28 PM
Being a fan is an implied contract between the player, the team and those in the seats. If said player performs up to expectations (yes, this includes off the court) they rarely get booed. If they screw up on the court (yes, off the court too) there is a price to pay for it. I seriously, seriously doubt the players care if they get booed or not as long as they see that big paycheck.

This is a bit of a stretch, but if you have a spouse that keeps screwing up - do you cheer them every time they come into the room? No. If they keep screwing up - you divorce yourself from the situation. Basically, the fans have gone through divorce proceedings with Jackson.

A fan is a fan. They usually will cheer the team. It doesn't mean they have to like the player or players. It's their right. I have no use for Jackson or Tinsley but the Pacers are still my team.

Los Angeles
10-15-2006, 12:46 PM
I used to have a zero tolerance for booing the home team. I thought it was despicable. It shows how far I've gone into the "dark side" when it doesn't bother me as much as it used to.

As for booing a player just because you don't like them, well, I say pick your moments. entering the game is not the right moment in my opinion.

The time I recall the booing being deserved was last season after the meltdown in Milwaukee.

We missed - what - 10 FT's any one of which would have won the game? The next game, the Pacers return to Conseco and start the night missing thier freethrows. This is Indiana - we make our free throws. The crowd let the Pacers have it, and they deserved it.

Pacesetter
10-15-2006, 01:18 PM
I don't get why people boo at the games for things off the court

This is a good question. This is something alot of people want to know, especially those playing in an NBA uniform. The answer is easy. Fans don't show up to games to watch their favorite players because they want to see them score a hundred points, the reason they show up and cheer their favorite players is because they LIKE them. Pure and simple to the point. There's no great mystery here, they LIKE the players they cheer. So, in contrast when a player goes out and commits felonies, they feel that person has betrayed them - and consequently boo him. It's just part of the business. If fans didn't LIKE the players they would probably never go to an NBA game; it's not worth the price of admission to watch a shoot around.

vapacersfan
10-15-2006, 07:41 PM
Sadly, or after looking at the box score maybe mercifully, I was not able to attend the game because I was in Ohio so I was not there when Jax was introduced.

I don't boo very often & just as often as not I don't cheer either, just ask Hicks he'll tell you I pretty much sit there like a bump on a log unless something sparks me.

However I just want to be the first person to disagree with the premise of not booing off-court behavior. IMO, it does not make them the worst kind of fans.

No, the worst kind are the ones who only pay attention when the team is in a deep playoff run & stay home & not watch the rest of the time.

Let me ask you a question. How is it that management knows the fans don't like Jax? I can assure you that it is not because they have mental telepathy.

It's because the fans boo'd Jackson long & hard last season. Often times, IMO, unfairly but that is not my decision to make. But boo him they did.

Now let's take your premise for a min. & say that every fan should just cheer with unabashed enthusiasm whenever any person wearing blue & gold walks on the floor.

Let's just use Jax as an example.

Let's say the fieldhouse expolded with applause for Jax, even though let's say roughly 75% of those in attendance no longer wanted him on the team.

How then would management know that the fans were unhappy with Jackson? If you only cheer no matter what then your voice is not heard.

Is it fair to the other players? Probably not, but I think they are smart enough to know that the fans are directing this at one player & one player alone.

This guy has taken what should have been a fresh new start & dipped it in the same old stink of previous conflicts. So are fans wrong to be upset? I say hell no.

IMO, the fans would only have themselves to blame if they didn't let tptb know how they felt. I'm sure for everyone involved (minus Jackson) would prefer the fans to do this as opposed to the other way they could protest. They could just stay home.

As far as screwing with the team & messing with their heads I'd say that went out the window with the magic of 3 a.m.

I am differant than most people but I just feel that people who go to games with the mindset of not telling the truth about how they feel only hurts the team.

IMO, we should never boo when a team is just beating us. We should never boo when a guy or the team is busting their @ss trying but just not able to get it done.

But lack of effort, lack of desire & yes stupidity off court justifies a good old fashioned boo.

Like I said often times last season I thought the fans were wrong to boo him, but it's their choice.

Great post.

For the part I highlighted, I could not agree more. I agree 100%, 1000%, 100,000%.

I, for one, will not boo my team if they are just having an off night or just having one of those "bad days". However, if a guy is just going through the motions, or just looks like he doest give a crap and is just around to pick up his paycheck, please beleive I will boo him

Frank Slade
10-15-2006, 07:46 PM
Maybe they just didn't like Jax's new cut ?
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20061015/capt.74e624807754402bae2bf7fd38e697c7.jazz_pacers_ basketball_ints108.jpg

Evan_The_Dude
10-15-2006, 07:47 PM
They boo Jack but cheer the hell out of Saras, even when Jack is obviously trying his *** off out there. Nope, not a race issue at all.

grace
10-15-2006, 07:55 PM
They boo Jack but cheer the hell out of Saras, even when Jack is obviously trying his *** off out there. Nope, not a race issue at all.


Are you saying Cabbage doesn't try? As much as I don't like him it's not for lack of effort on his part. I just don't think he lives up to his billing. :shrug:

ABADays
10-15-2006, 09:42 PM
They boo Jack but cheer the hell out of Saras, even when Jack is obviously trying his *** off out there. Nope, not a race issue at all.

IRL or NASCAR. Your post didn't deserve any better reply.

Since86
10-15-2006, 10:17 PM
They boo Jack but cheer the hell out of Saras, even when Jack is obviously trying his *** off out there. Nope, not a race issue at all.

How many times has Saras jumped into the stands to fight with fans, or pulled out his jersey ready to fight the entire opposing team?

How many times has Saras been arrested since he's been here?

How many times has Saras been in a fight at a night club at 3am?

Jax has been arrested/charged with a criminal crime, convicted once and most likely will a second time, twice in FOUR years.

He his getting arrested every other year here. If he was Reggie, and played 18yrs with the Ps, he's on pace to be arrested nine freaking times.

Yep, Jax is booed because he's black. That's it. :rolleyes:

I agree 100% with Peck BTW.

Destined4Greatness
10-15-2006, 10:37 PM
The real question is actually how many times has Runi helped this team win?

Um 1 maybe 2 times.

Plus take into account how they ended up here

Jack came here as compensation so that we wouldn't just lose Al Harrington for nothing.

Runi came here and left us unable to resign James Jones and Dale Davis.

Naptown_Seth
10-15-2006, 10:44 PM
I was there and they did boo him each time (3) he came into the game, I didn't hear any booing while he was playing though.

I don't think I've ever booed the Pacers team or any Pacers players ever and I often get mad when I hear fans boo the home team or any of the players.
Yeah, I'm not a guy that boo's either. At worst I will yell about something specific, like "get back on defense next time" or something, and even that is rare.

The idea that you must boo to make your point is ridiculous. How about just keeping your yapper shut? You don't think silence makes its point? No one is asking you to cheer for a player you don't like, but just take the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" attitude. It's tried and true IMO.


The fans that really get me are the ones that sit till the end of a Pacers blowout loss apparently just to boo and heckle the Pacers some more. I sit and watch every minute even if it's mostly crap, but I understand why a fan would say "enough" and walk out. But if you hate enough to whine and moan, why not just end the pain and leave?

A few nitwits boo'd Tinsley at FAN JAM of all places, a free "we give you a hot dog and some chips" family friendly scrimmage. That's really going out of your way to be a jerk, ironically rather the same personality they are complaining about some Pacers having.

BlueNGold
10-15-2006, 10:46 PM
Jack deserves the boos and Saras does not deserve the cheers. Hope that pleases y'all.

BTW, if Saras had Jack's police record, he would be getting boo'ed just as hard. Just the facts.

Destined4Greatness
10-15-2006, 10:47 PM
Jack deserves the boos and Saras does not deserve the cheers. Hope that pleases y'all.

BTW, if Saras had Jack's police record, he would be getting boo'ed just as hard. Just the facts.

Once again somebody misses the point.

PacerPerspective
10-15-2006, 10:49 PM
I think there are a few reasons why fans boo players for things that take place off of the court...

We value the image of our players' images, because we want these guys to be honorable and good citizens. Would you care what your family did when they weren't at home? I think that's a pretty good analogy...

Would you mind if a member of your local police station was a great cop, but drank heavily when not on shift? I think it's the same type of situation...

That fact that Jax had a love-hate relationship with fans as it was, doesn't help either.....

BlueNGold
10-15-2006, 10:51 PM
Once again somebody misses the point.

Don't like the facts, huh? The real question is why is Saras being attacked in this thread. The real bias is showing in your posts.

Since86
10-15-2006, 11:01 PM
The real question is actually how many times has Runi helped this team win?

Um 1 maybe 2 times.

Plus take into account how they ended up here

Jack came here as compensation so that we wouldn't just lose Al Harrington for nothing.

Runi came here and left us unable to resign James Jones and Dale Davis.

I guess you only saw a couple of games then last year, huh??

Last I saw, they won 40+ games, and he played in 95%. I'm sure he contrabuted in atleast one facet of the game each time he played. But lets act like he turns the ball over EVERY time he has it, and he's man scores on the other end every possesion as well.

You guys and your love fest/hate fest for certain players is beyond me. It's like R. Kelly. The man was video taped peeing on an underage girl, and you still have people telling you he was innocent. Jax could be seen beating an old woman over the head with her own walker, and I'm sure someone here would defend him.

Race has ZERO to do with it, and it's making a statement about it is about as stupid as I've seen for a while. Danny Granger gets cheered constantly, and last time I checked he was black. Reggie is an Indiana Pacer fan idol, and last time I checked he was black.

Runi wasn't the reason we didn't resign JJ or DD. TPTB made that decision. They are to blame, if you want to blame anyone. They make the decision on who they want to sign, or try to sign. JJ could have stayed, hence the reason he WAS signed, but traded.

Don't let the facts/reality get in the way of your opinions though.

Black Sox
10-15-2006, 11:04 PM
It was wrong. I even said something to a person booing next to me. Those that were booing were obviously those who live in glass houses or Pleasentville.

Since86
10-15-2006, 11:06 PM
Yeah, I'm not a guy that boo's either. At worst I will yell about something specific, like "get back on defense next time" or something, and even that is rare.

The idea that you must boo to make your point is ridiculous. How about just keeping your yapper shut? You don't think silence makes its point? No one is asking you to cheer for a player you don't like, but just take the "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" attitude. It's tried and true IMO.


The fans that really get me are the ones that sit till the end of a Pacers blowout loss apparently just to boo and heckle the Pacers some more. I sit and watch every minute even if it's mostly crap, but I understand why a fan would say "enough" and walk out. But if you hate enough to whine and moan, why not just end the pain and leave?

A few nitwits boo'd Tinsley at FAN JAM of all places, a free "we give you a hot dog and some chips" family friendly scrimmage. That's really going out of your way to be a jerk, ironically rather the same personality they are complaining about some Pacers having.

One question. When you mess up at work, does your boss keep his/her trapper shut?

I know mine doesn't.

Since86
10-15-2006, 11:08 PM
It was wrong. I even said something to a person booing next to me. Those that were booing were obviously those who live in glass houses or Pleasentville.

Or haven't been arrest twice in four years.

I don't understand how people can actually SUPPORT stupid bahavior. I guess we need to start patting felons on the back, telling them they need to do better next time, instead of punishing them.

SycamoreKen
10-16-2006, 01:30 AM
Sadly, or after looking at the box score maybe mercifully, I was not able to attend the game because I was in Ohio so I was not there when Jax was introduced.

I don't boo very often & just as often as not I don't cheer either, just ask Hicks he'll tell you I pretty much sit there like a bump on a log unless something sparks me.

However I just want to be the first person to disagree with the premise of not booing off-court behavior. IMO, it does not make them the worst kind of fans.

No, the worst kind are the ones who only pay attention when the team is in a deep playoff run & stay home & not watch the rest of the time.

Let me ask you a question. How is it that management knows the fans don't like Jax? I can assure you that it is not because they have mental telepathy.

It's because the fans boo'd Jackson long & hard last season. Often times, IMO, unfairly but that is not my decision to make. But boo him they did.

Now let's take your premise for a min. & say that every fan should just cheer with unabashed enthusiasm whenever any person wearing blue & gold walks on the floor.

Let's just use Jax as an example.

Let's say the fieldhouse expolded with applause for Jax, even though let's say roughly 75% of those in attendance no longer wanted him on the team.

How then would management know that the fans were unhappy with Jackson? If you only cheer no matter what then your voice is not heard.

Is it fair to the other players? Probably not, but I think they are smart enough to know that the fans are directing this at one player & one player alone.

This guy has taken what should have been a fresh new start & dipped it in the same old stink of previous conflicts. So are fans wrong to be upset? I say hell no.

IMO, the fans would only have themselves to blame if they didn't let tptb know how they felt. I'm sure for everyone involved (minus Jackson) would prefer the fans to do this as opposed to the other way they could protest. They could just stay home.

As far as screwing with the team & messing with their heads I'd say that went out the window with the magic of 3 a.m.

I am differant than most people but I just feel that people who go to games with the mindset of not telling the truth about how they feel only hurts the team.

IMO, we should never boo when a team is just beating us. We should never boo when a guy or the team is busting their @ss trying but just not able to get it done.

But lack of effort, lack of desire & yes stupidity off court justifies a good old fashioned boo.

Like I said often times last season I thought the fans were wrong to boo him, but it's their choice.

Great post.

Evan_The_Dude
10-16-2006, 09:52 AM
I guess my point was misunderstood. What I said had to do with the thread title "People booing for things OFF THE COURT". I strongly believe Jack would have been booed even if he hadn't been involved in the strip club incident. People here just don't like him.

I just don't understand how Saras, whom has done absolutely nothing since he's been here and has only earned time due to others' injuries, and has complained to the media (in his country) about his role with the Pacers, can draw a ridiculous amount of cheers. But Jackson, whom has been unfortunately involved in two incidents since he's been here, but otherwise comes to play every single game unless he can't walk, plays hard, and has had some big games to help his team win, get's booed.

Combine those with the use of the word 'thug' which I keep hearing (sounds sort of like a racial slur to me), that's why I believe race has something to do with SOME OF the reactions Jack is getting. As much as I dislike some of the things Kravitz writes, he was right on point when he said "If Saras and Jeff Forster were the ones involved in this incident, the reaction would have been different". I believe if Saras did the shooting and got hit by a car, then said it was self defense, nobody would even be talking about it for more than a day or two.

Evan_The_Dude
10-16-2006, 09:59 AM
Sadly, or after looking at the box score maybe mercifully, I was not able to attend the game because I was in Ohio so I was not there when Jax was introduced.

I don't boo very often & just as often as not I don't cheer either, just ask Hicks he'll tell you I pretty much sit there like a bump on a log unless something sparks me.

However I just want to be the first person to disagree with the premise of not booing off-court behavior. IMO, it does not make them the worst kind of fans.

No, the worst kind are the ones who only pay attention when the team is in a deep playoff run & stay home & not watch the rest of the time.

Let me ask you a question. How is it that management knows the fans don't like Jax? I can assure you that it is not because they have mental telepathy.

It's because the fans boo'd Jackson long & hard last season. Often times, IMO, unfairly but that is not my decision to make. But boo him they did.

Now let's take your premise for a min. & say that every fan should just cheer with unabashed enthusiasm whenever any person wearing blue & gold walks on the floor.

Let's just use Jax as an example.

Let's say the fieldhouse expolded with applause for Jax, even though let's say roughly 75% of those in attendance no longer wanted him on the team.

How then would management know that the fans were unhappy with Jackson? If you only cheer no matter what then your voice is not heard.

Is it fair to the other players? Probably not, but I think they are smart enough to know that the fans are directing this at one player & one player alone.

This guy has taken what should have been a fresh new start & dipped it in the same old stink of previous conflicts. So are fans wrong to be upset? I say hell no.

IMO, the fans would only have themselves to blame if they didn't let tptb know how they felt. I'm sure for everyone involved (minus Jackson) would prefer the fans to do this as opposed to the other way they could protest. They could just stay home.

As far as screwing with the team & messing with their heads I'd say that went out the window with the magic of 3 a.m.

I am differant than most people but I just feel that people who go to games with the mindset of not telling the truth about how they feel only hurts the team.

IMO, we should never boo when a team is just beating us. We should never boo when a guy or the team is busting their @ss trying but just not able to get it done.

But lack of effort, lack of desire & yes stupidity off court justifies a good old fashioned boo.

Like I said often times last season I thought the fans were wrong to boo him, but it's their choice.


Well said :thumbup:

SycamoreKen
10-16-2006, 10:06 AM
I guess my point was misunderstood. What I said had to do with the thread title "People booing for things OFF THE COURT". I strongly believe Jack would have been booed even if he hadn't been involved in the strip club incident. People here just don't like him.

I just don't understand how Saras, whom has done absolutely nothing since he's been here and has only earned time due to others' injuries, and has complained to the media (in his country) about his role with the Pacers, can draw a ridiculous amount of cheers. But Jackson, whom has been unfortunately involved in two incidents since he's been here, but otherwise comes to play every single game unless he can't walk, plays hard, and has had some big games to help his team win, gets booed.

Combine those with the use of the word 'thug' which I keep hearing (sounds sort of like a racial slur to me), that's why I believe race has something to do with SOME OF the reactions Jack is getting. As much as I dislike some of the things Kravitz writes, he was right on point when he said "If Saras and Jeff Forster were the ones involved in this incident, the reaction would have been different". I believe if Saras did the shooting and got hit by a car, then said it was self defense, nobody would even be talking about it for more than a day or two.

I would feel the same way. My problem, which I stated in the other thread was that it was one bad decision after another that escalated the incident, which Jackson actually had the power to defuse if he had just walked away, or better yet, stayed out of the setting in the beginning.

I don't care which player would have done it, I would held the same feelings. That it happened to Jackson makes the poor decision making ever worse because of past mistakes. Is that fair? I think so. If you go to your job and mess up on the scale that Jackson did during Detroit and then mess up again like he did in the latest incident, then you would probably be fired.

As I tell students all the time, if you keep making dumb choices, you will get a bad reputation, even though you may not really be a bad person at heart. That is what has happened to Jackson.

Peck
10-16-2006, 10:56 AM
I guess my point was misunderstood. What I said had to do with the thread title "People booing for things OFF THE COURT". I strongly believe Jack would have been booed even if he hadn't been involved in the strip club incident. People here just don't like him.

I just don't understand how Saras, whom has done absolutely nothing since he's been here and has only earned time due to others' injuries, and has complained to the media (in his country) about his role with the Pacers, can draw a ridiculous amount of cheers. But Jackson, whom has been unfortunately involved in two incidents since he's been here, but otherwise comes to play every single game unless he can't walk, plays hard, and has had some big games to help his team win, get's booed.

Combine those with the use of the word 'thug' which I keep hearing (sounds sort of like a racial slur to me), that's why I believe race has something to do with SOME OF the reactions Jack is getting. As much as I dislike some of the things Kravitz writes, he was right on point when he said "If Saras and Jeff Forster were the ones involved in this incident, the reaction would have been different". I believe if Saras did the shooting and got hit by a car, then said it was self defense, nobody would even be talking about it for more than a day or two.


While I understand your point & I certainly won't deny that to some race is an issue here, I guess I just disagree about the main players.

The way you've written it Jackson has only been involved in two incidents first the brawl & now this.

The truth is nobody boo'ed Jackson for his part in the brawl, well let me restate that Jackson did not start getting boo'ed regularly until last season. This was after the brawl, but the fans don't boo Jermaine. Why is that?

Simple, while both have the nasty horrid habit of argueing with referee's after every play only Jackson curses the coach when he is taken out of a game.

IMO, that is what sets the two apart. If J.O. ******ed a fit after being taken out of a game & stood there & argued with the coach like Jackson does I think the fans would turn on him as well.

As to Saras. I'm not sure how many games you watched with him last season but I think as the year went on the cheers started getting less & less.

Was it because he was white that people cheered him? Maybe, I can't tell you for sure. But some of it could be that Larry Legend annointed him as the second coming & he had a long pedigree of basketball wins coming in from Europe.

Now will the fans boo him? Probably not but it has nothing to do with race IMO.

Indiana fans rarely boo a player for playing badly. Oh you will get cat calls & an occasional "Travis you suck" yelled from the stands but for the most part they won't boo bad play.

Now I will say this, if the majority of fans read what Saras said in the foreign press that might change things but as is only those few of us who read the net daily know this.

But I feel confident in saying that if he griped at every call or non call to a ref. & then threw a fit every time he was taken out of a game I think the fans would boo him as well no matter what color he was.

But like I said, I understand where you are coming from. I just think in this case race is not the dominate issue.

Bball
10-16-2006, 12:28 PM
I'll weigh in here...

Sjax has much more baggage than the two incidents and that has soured the ticket buying fanbase greatly. As Peck said, arguing with the coach is one of them. What would appear to be selfish play is another. Then factor in holding the ball too long and THEN making a turnover or taking a bad shot. That is another. And this stuff happens alot.That's where there's a problem that has festered around Sjax with the fanbase. Then the two big incidents just bookend all of that and indicate a player who just isn't 'getting it'.

As for Saras.... Again Peck pointed it out- Bird was high on him. Also, for the first time in recent memory the Pacers set out to get a FA player and did it. Those two things had to create much optimism.

As for the things that Saras has said, or been alleged to say in the press (foreign or otherwise), much of it doesn't filter it's way to the ticket buying public as a whole as it does to the forum regulars. Also, IMHO much of what Saras critisized about the Pacers were arguably correct and easy to agree with. He's said the same things many fans have said.

Most of the Sarunas Mania had been tempered considerably by the last 1/3rd of the season and now.

But there's a difference to how Sjax and Sarunas have reached this point in their NBA careers and to overlook that and go looking for other reasons is over-reaching.

-Bball

Putnam
10-16-2006, 01:06 PM
Two things.

First, the players who put on a uniform are representing the team and the community. It is not their privilege to say what the franchise stands for. They have an obligation to live up to the expectations of the franchise and the community. To those who would say, "Naw, It's just basketball," I say your position is absurd. The game is just throwing a ball through a hoop. What sane person could really care about how many times a ball goes through a hoop? You might just as well care about whether all the leaves on an oak tree fall "face up" in the yard or keeping the valve stems on all four wheels of your car rising and falling in unison. No, when you detach basketball from everything else it becomes stupid. It is only because the teams and the players represent something honorable, or at least because they represent us, that we cheer for them. What happens off the court is a part of how they represent, and it matters deeply.

The second point I'd like to make is that disapproval of brawling, pistol-packing, dope smoking, and whoring at 3am has nothing to do with race. The culture of crime and violence is not black culture. Most black folks want to live, and they want their neighbors and their children to live. I think there is some legitimacy to the part of this thread that asks why some people are more lenient with Jasikevicius than Jackson, based on the unsatisfactory play of each. But that argument cannot be extended to imply that criminal behavior off the court is seen differently through a prism of race. If Jackson committed a felony outside Club Rio, it was a crime against the black community. If he committed battery, it was against another black man.

imawhat
10-16-2006, 01:09 PM
It doesn't help the team one damn bit, the management knows people don't like Jack. But going and Booing Jack a member of this team for nothing he is doing on the court at that moment(Whether or not that helps a player is debatable) is just moronic.


Normally I would agree with (not) booing for off-the-court issues, but here's the difference: Stephen, and management for that matter, made it an issue when they publicly stated they would make better decisions on and off the court. Stephen went out of his way to make a promise to the fans, which he broke before the first preseason game.

Aside from that, there are other issues. The magnitude of his off-the-court issues is a distraction that becomes an on-the-court issue. Jermaine can say it isn't a distraction but it was two years ago and last year and I don't see that changing (because he cares too much, as do other players). Also, if Stephen is convicted and faces jail time, it becomes an issue on the court because it forces a team out of their routine (assuming Stephen is going to be a part of the regular rotation). Factor those things in with Stephen's past behaviors and his play and his public perception isn't good.

In my opinion, it's better to let players know that you disapprove of their actions than it is to reinforce them with unconditional cheers. Cheering can send mixed messages by letting them know it's okay to go out and act like a fool, or play without effort, because you're going to cheer no matter what. There's less incentive for progress, and that's not something I want to encourage. I'm not saying anyone should go to a game to purposely boo, or that you should boo every time a player makes a mistake, but I don't think it's wrong to let your team know if certain actions aren't "okay".

As far as off-the-court issues, I'd rather they stay that way. But if it affects the game, then it affects the game.

BoomBaby31
10-16-2006, 01:26 PM
What happen to our good imagine? Indiana has always been notrious for clean sports team, work ethic and blue collar guys. What has the Pacers turned into? A run n gun bunch of criminals that don't give two ****s about the team. As I think about it now, I always thought reggie was forced into retirement, by the media. Now I have the conclusion, he was coming to his last years and he knew what type of players were around him. He was to old to be brawling it out in Auburn Hills, maybe not physically but mentally, he's a grown *** man not some little thug. This isn't reggie's folk and he didn't want to leave for another team so he retired.

Never once have I heard an Indiana crowd boo our team or player. This truly makes me sad, I don't think these people are booing the team they are booing the players (hope you understand what I mean) no true Indiana fan wants these pistol toting thugs on our squad. Wrap em' up and ship em' out Larry and Donnie I don't care if it takes up 5 years to rebuild, ship these punks out before you really lose your fan base and DESTROY the pacers Image.

To the person who wrote these people are "jealous" because of finacial success. You better look around there are many many wealthy people that attend games. The guys who have the $1000 black seats can't be that bad off and they are probably booing louder then any one up in nose bleeds. No one is jealous of finacial success, they just don't like the players. I say keep on booing until they ship them out, I don't care about the players (except for a small few) I care about the team. This is a Business the players made it into a "business" so do what any Owner of a billionare dollare company would do to there employee, that was toting a pistol at a strip club in the early morning.

This is my 2 cents.

BlueNGold
10-16-2006, 02:33 PM
Normally I would agree with (not) booing for off-the-court issues, but here's the difference: Stephen, and management for that matter, made it an issue when they publicly stated they would make better decisions on and off the court. Stephen went out of his way to make a promise to the fans, which he broke before the first preseason game.

Aside from that, there are other issues. The magnitude of his off-the-court issues is a distraction that becomes an on-the-court issue. Jermaine can say it isn't a distraction but it was two years ago and last year and I don't see that changing (because he cares too much, as do other players). Also, if Stephen is convicted and faces jail time, it becomes an issue on the court because it forces a team out of their routine (assuming Stephen is going to be a part of the regular rotation). Factor those things in with Stephen's past behaviors and his play and his public perception isn't good.

In my opinion, it's better to let players know that you disapprove of their actions than it is to reinforce them with unconditional cheers. Cheering can send mixed messages by letting them know it's okay to go out and act like a fool, or play without effort, because you're going to cheer no matter what. There's less incentive for progress, and that's not something I want to encourage. I'm not saying anyone should go to a game to purposely boo, or that you should boo every time a player makes a mistake, but I don't think it's wrong to let your team know if certain actions aren't "okay".

As far as off-the-court issues, I'd rather they stay that way. But if it affects the game, then it affects the game.

Great post...but I would add that off-court issues are likely to affect on-court performance. Maybe not all the time, but certainly in this case since it negatively impacted preseason. ...and Jack may be suspended, injured or in jail over these types of activities. SO I do believe that impacts the team's performance.

Also, I don't like the idea of putting a muzzle on the crowd...or brushing dirt under the table...or the idea that boo'ing should never be done for off-court issues. TPTB need to know what the paying fans think about the team they have constructed.

miller31
10-16-2006, 05:12 PM
They boo Jack but cheer the hell out of Saras, even when Jack is obviously trying his *** off out there. Nope, not a race issue at all.

Heck no its not a race issue! Are you crazy! First of all Saras does not go out and play it up on the streets at 3:00 am during training camp! Second of all Saras does not go around shooting people and get misdemeanor charges against him. Third, Saras does not downgrade the proffesionalism of the franchise. And fourth Saras doesnt go out there and cry all game to the refs and whine when he doesnt hit shots which is near every game. Because of this no one like Jack! I HATE HIM:mad: . He is a disgrace to the team and organization.

For that I am one of the thousands that "boo" him everygame. He dug himself a hole and now he is paying for it. I dont get it? Why wouldnt you boo him for how selfish and self centered the man is. Jackson is a thug that needs to get out of Indiana.

BlueNGold
10-16-2006, 05:21 PM
Heck no its not a race issue! Are you crazy! First of all Saras does not go out and play it up on the streets at 3:00 am during training camp! Second of all Saras does not go around shooting people and get misdemeanor charges against him. Third, Saras does not downgrade the proffesionalism of the franchise. And fourth Saras doesnt go out there and cry all game to the refs and whine when he doesnt hit shots which is near every game. Because of this no one like Jack! I HATE HIM:mad: . He is a disgrace to the team and organization.

For that I am one of the thousands that "boo" him everygame. He dug himself a hole and now he is paying for it. I dont get it? Why wouldnt you boo him for how selfish and self centered the man is. Jackson is a thug that needs to get out of Indiana.

LMAO. That's pretty harsh. Now tell us what you really think.