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View Full Version : How many of you have actually read the police report?



Leisure Suit Larry
10-12-2006, 07:56 PM
Before going off on Stephen Jackson blaming him for the incident, have you guys actually read the police report? It's post on indystar.com with accounts of what happened from everyone.

http://www.indystar.com/assets/pdf/BG447041011.PDF


There was no fighting/confrontation inside the club. Both Jackson and a Club Rio employee said this. Jackson thinks it might have started because Fingers and Dino felt disrespected when Jackson and his group ignored them.

Tinsley let police get his gun out of his car so he probably didn't know about the weed. If he knew about the weed that was found in the compartment on the door he probably wouldn't have. I guess he would have eventually had to let the police get the gun but he could have gotten rid of the weed before he got pulled over.

The Rio employee didn't hear gun shots until he heard Jack get hit by the car.

When Jack and Snap were leaving the club, Fingers came up to them had his hand in his back pocket (probably not going to pull out his wallet) and started yelling "dump" which means shoot. Who in their right mind wouldn't get defensive here. If some guy was threatening to shoot me I would do everything I could to not let that happen.

Jack says that he pulled out his gun (which he had on him) to show Fingers and then put it back. Then they got in the car and hit Jack. Jack fired 4-5 shots in the air then Snap helped him up and threw the gun in the car.

Tinsley said in the club someone ordered them drinks. Then Fingers started yelling "pimp" at them and said none of the Pacers had $500. Now it sounds to me that Fingers was either drunk and/or high out of his mind and was looking to start something. Now maybe, just maybe, Fingers and Friends were offended because the Pacers turned down the drinks? Being a little more responsible then most of you think?

Tinsley said Fingers followed them out with his hands in his waistline. Well so far that's two seperate people saying Fingers came at them looking like he was going to pull a gun. Hmmm, this doesn't warrant any kind of self defense at all, does it? I'm sure you'd be totally fine with an intoxicated person coming up to you acting like they were about to pull a gun on you.

When questioned, Snap also says there was no fight in the club, it happened outside. Then Snap goes on to be the third person to say Fingers came at them reaching under his shirt. This whole threatening Jack and the Pacers with a gun thing must have been planned out ahead of time since they all said the same thing :rolleyes:.

Daniels was parked across the street and wasn't involved in this. He saw the car hit Jack but didn't know if he heard gunshots. Now here he is probably just trying to cover for Jack but its not that big of a deal when Jack admits shooting.

Club Rio DJ heard gun shots, went out to see Fingers getting beat up, then Jack get hit by the car. Then he heard more gun shots.

It says the video tape showed SOME parts of the fight and Jack being hit. It never says it has the whole thing on tape. However, some people on here are assuming that.

According to Jack, Tinsley's friends were in the fight when Fingers started yelling dump coming toward Jack. So Jack got his gun and let Fingers know he had it. He admits to kicking Fingers. Why would Jack kick the handicapped little angel known as Fingers? Oh wait, Fingers was acting like he was going to shoot him. What would happen if Fingers did this to a cop? He would be shot in a second.

Tinsley's friend, Rumal Maddox, admits that the weed is his.

Dion/Dino says that Fingers was talking to some girl and someone yelled to stop talking to her. Jack then got his pistol out. Then they went on to beat the poor, innocent, handicapped Fingers to the ground. Fingers goes on to say pretty much the same thing but Dino drove off without him so he had to go to a pay phone and call a taxi.

imawhat
10-12-2006, 08:04 PM
Yeah, I've read it.

I think the police report confirms some things heard in the 911 call. There were two completely separate shootings from Stephen. Once before the fight and once after being ran over.

Leisure Suit Larry
10-12-2006, 08:06 PM
Yeah, I've read it.

I think the police report confirms some things heard in the 911 call. There were two completely separate shootings from Stephen. Once before the fight and once after being ran over.

Well it never says for sure that the first shooting was Stephen.

imawhat
10-12-2006, 08:07 PM
::sighs::

Jermaniac
10-12-2006, 08:10 PM
Stephen changed his story twice, I dont beleive a word he says.

Peck
10-12-2006, 08:18 PM
Well it never says for sure that the first shooting was Stephen.

What the hell are you talking about?

It clearly states that Jackson admitted to getting his gun out of his car & that he fired shots in the air to break up the fight before he was hit by a car.

Leisure Suit Larry
10-12-2006, 08:21 PM
What the hell are you talking about?

It clearly states that Jackson admitted to getting his gun out of his car & that he fired shots in the air to break up the fight before he was hit by a car.

Maybe you could point out where it says that in their for me. Maybe I looked over it but never saw that. Thanks for talking to me like that though. It shows you're a real classy moderator.

Frank Slade
10-12-2006, 08:22 PM
Stephen changed his story twice, I dont beleive a word he says.

Actually at least three times according to this affidavit.
In this version Jax said he was punched in the mouth, showed his gun but never used it, and then put it back. I really wanted to believe Jax at first but which version ? If you're going to lie, at least stick with one story.

http://www.theindychannel.com/download/2006/1012/10056399.pdf

MagicRat
10-12-2006, 08:25 PM
Maybe you could point out where it says that in their for me. Maybe I looked over it but never saw that.

It's during the second taped statement.

Leisure Suit Larry
10-12-2006, 08:28 PM
It's during the second taped statement.

Thanks, I just missed it when I read it. I appreciate how you didn't have to talk to me like I was an idiot though. You should be a mod, you show people respect.

imawhat
10-12-2006, 08:29 PM
"Dion stated that he ducked and then observed the male with the hat on and a bandana underneath, wearing a jersey, fire a handgun into the air. Dion stated that he got into his vehicle and observed.......Dion stated after he struck the male, he heard more gun shots fired.".

imawhat
10-12-2006, 08:30 PM
In all fairness you started a thread saying "Before going off on Stephen Jackson blaming him for the incident, have you guys actually read the police report".

Evan_The_Dude
10-12-2006, 08:32 PM
I just want to know how a guy with 3 fingers on each hand can shoot a gun.

Leisure Suit Larry
10-12-2006, 08:34 PM
Why are you guys siding with Fingers?! He's not the handicapped little angel you think he is. There was an article that said he did six years in jail.

Leisure Suit Larry
10-12-2006, 08:35 PM
I just want to know how a guy with 3 fingers on each hand can shoot a gun.

Would you be willing to let him try it on you? Should Jack have let him try?

imawhat
10-12-2006, 08:40 PM
Why are you guys siding with Fingers?! He's not the handicapped little angel you think he is. There was an article that said he did six years in jail.


There are more than two separate accounts saying that Jackson fired a gun before being struck by a car, then we have Jackson and Dino saying that he shot a gun after being struck, and a 911 tape stating that shots were fired at two different times.

I'm siding with assumed facts.

Kstat
10-12-2006, 08:44 PM
When you lie to the police, you tend to lose supporters....

and stop implying that siding against one means siding with the other. Not every altercation has to have dual just/unjust sides.

When the initial report was made, I went on record as siding with Jackson on the issue.

Then came the follow-up report.

I've since changed my opinion on the issue.

Leisure Suit Larry
10-12-2006, 08:45 PM
Yeah we know you're obviously not siding with Jack. The same way I would never side with Ben Wallace.

Kstat
10-12-2006, 08:48 PM
Yeah we know you're obviously not siding with Jack. The same way I would never side with Ben Wallace.

This is a legal issue. It has nothing to do with who his employer is.

If your opinion on someone possibly going to JAIL is determined by what professional team he plays for, you're probably not mature enough to take part in this discussion.

Human being are human beings. Basketball is just a game.

This one happened to do something he probably should serve jail time for, considering he's already ON probation.

Hicks
10-12-2006, 09:04 PM
Thanks for talking to me like that though. It shows you're a real classy moderator.

Excuse me, but coming from you and given some of your past posts here (some recent, some not), that means practically nothing.

Peck
10-12-2006, 09:10 PM
Maybe you could point out where it says that in their for me. Maybe I looked over it but never saw that. Thanks for talking to me like that though. It shows you're a real classy moderator.

I'm sorry. I guess I should have chosen my words a little more wisely. I didn't mean for it to be offensive, but I certainly see where it looks that way in hindsight.

I'm still new at the whole adm. gig so every now and then I will have an old core moment.

Again, sorry about that.

Matney33
10-12-2006, 09:13 PM
Whose story should we believe? Fingers? Jackson? Who can afford the better attorney? Sadly, that will probably determine it.

CableKC
10-12-2006, 09:18 PM
Would you be willing to let him try it on you? Should Jack have let him try?

Although Ev_eezy can probably clarify his point....I don't think that he was suggesting that SJax should let Fingers try....I think that Ev_eezy was trying to point out that ( and I'm guessing here....since I have never held a gun before ) it maybe easy to hold a gun with 3 fingers....but it would be difficult to actually shoot one with 3 fingers.

Leisure Suit Larry
10-12-2006, 09:23 PM
I'm just saying if some crazy drunk guy came at you acting like he was about to pull a gun on you and you had a gun to you wouldn't react. He made the best decision shooting the gun in the air and not at the guy. I honestly believe that Jackson and the Pacers were targeted there, it may turn out that wasn't the case but from what I've read that is what I believe.

Hicks
10-12-2006, 09:24 PM
The best decision is to drive away in your car when you get in it, not pull out a gun and walk back to where things are happening.

Leisure Suit Larry
10-12-2006, 09:29 PM
The best decision is to drive away in your car when you get in it, not pull out a gun and walk back to where things are happening.

A bullet travels a lot faster than a car. Some guy comes up to you acting like he was going to pull a gun, you would turn your back on him and go to your car and try to get away? If he didn't try, Jack should have tried to talk him out of it. Let's not forget Jack comes from a rougher place than most of us and has probably had a gun pulled on him before (God, I sound like a Lib..)

thought_criminal
10-12-2006, 09:29 PM
I actually hope that Stephen gets the full sentence no matter what happened... He's been too much of a distraction and I would like him to sit out until the end of his contract year.

Talented? Yes... Athletic? Yes... But not the man I want wearing a Pacers uniform.

vapacersfan
10-12-2006, 09:39 PM
A bullet travels a lot faster than a car. Some guy comes up to you acting like he was going to pull a gun, you would turn your back on him and go to your car and try to get away? If he didn't try, Jack should have tried to talk him out of it. Let's not forget Jack comes from a rougher place than most of us and has probably had a gun pulled on him before (God, I sound like a Lib..)

Where are you getting that Jackson was fearfull for his life and that is why he pulled the gun?

All I have read/haerd is that Jackson got the gun to "show it off", and it wouldnt have even been that big of a deal if he had simply pulled the gun out but not fired any shots.

As Hicks said, he would have been fine getting in his car and driving off, and leaving the gun alone.

If you want to say he was fearfull for his life, then fine. He got the gun out, but then why did he put it back and stay around longer to get in more trouble?

As many of us since day 1 before all the different versions of this story came out "Jackson made a lot of bad choices, and the fact he keeps changing his story is not helping him out at all".

vapacersfan
10-12-2006, 09:45 PM
When you lie to the police, you tend to lose supporters....

and stop implying that siding against one means siding with the other. Not every altercation has to have dual just/unjust sides.

When the initial report was made, I went on record as siding with Jackson on the issue.

Then came the follow-up report.

I've since changed my opinion on the issue.


:ding:

Of course, the sad thing is when this first came out I wanted to beleive it as self defense. The more that comes out, though, the more my initial fears are confirmed. Jackson didnt help decrease the situation (read he esculated the incident) and while I feel horrible for him (no matter how guilty anyone is going through any court case is very stressfull) it is also a huge blow for the Pacers organization.

Leisure Suit Larry
10-12-2006, 09:46 PM
Where are you getting that Jackson was fearfull for his life and that is why he pulled the gun?

All I have read/haerd is that Jackson got the gun to "show it off", and it wouldnt have even been that big of a deal if he had simply pulled the gun out but not fired any shots.

As Hicks said, he would have been fine getting in his car and driving off, and leaving the gun alone.

If you want to say he was fearfull for his life, then fine. He got the gun out, but then why did he put it back and stay around longer to get in more trouble?

As many of us since day 1 before all the different versions of this story came out "Jackson made a lot of bad choices, and the fact he keeps changing his story is not helping him out at all".

He got the gun out to show the guy who was about to pull a gun on him that he had one to. Who wouldn't be fearful for his or her life when someone is acting like they are about to pull a gun on you. Like I said try walking up to a cop like that and see how much longer your standing up without a bullet in you.

vapacersfan
10-12-2006, 09:49 PM
He got the gun out to show the guy who was about to pull a gun on him that he had one to. Who wouldn't be fearful for his or her life when someone is acting like they are about to pull a gun on you. Like I said try walking up to a cop like that and see how much longer your standing up without a bullet in you.

First of all, as I asked in my last post "Where are you getting this info that the guy was about to pull a gun on Jackson?" This thread is the first time I have heard that. I admit I am behind of reading of this case, but I have not heard anything about this.

Secondly, I am a LEO. I can think of many ways I have been trained to react if put in that situation, and none of them involve firing a "bullet into the air", and I can guarentee you none of the involve me "putting a bullet into a person"

Leisure Suit Larry
10-12-2006, 09:52 PM
First of all, as I asked in my last post "Whre are you getting this info that the guy was about to pull a gun on Jackson?" This thread is the first time I have heard that. I admit I am behind of reading of this case, but I have not heard anything about this.

Secondly, I am a LEO. I can think of many ways I have been trained to react if put in that situation, and none of them involve firing a "bullet into the air", and I can guarentee you none of the involve me "puttint a pullet into a person"

It says it in the police report multiple times. Jack, Tinsley, and Snap all said it and I'm sure they weren't questioned together or had time to come up with a story before the police were there. They all say Finger started walking up to them with his hand under his shirt acting like he was going to pull out a gun yelling Dump, which supposedly means shoot.

What is a LEO?

vapacersfan
10-12-2006, 09:57 PM
It says it in the police report multiple times. Jack, Tinsley, and Snap all said it and I'm sure they weren't questioned together or had time to come up with a story before the police were there. They all say Finger started walking up to them with his hand under his shirt acting like he was going to pull out a gun yelling Dump, which supposedly means shoot.

What is a LEO?

Ok, I hadnt read that. I also have never heard the word "dump" before, but maybe I am just out of the loop.

LEO = Law Enforcement Officer

Leisure Suit Larry
10-12-2006, 09:58 PM
Ok, I hadnt read that. I also have never heard the word "dump" before, but maybe I am just out of the loop.

LEO = Law Enforcement Officer

Well you would think differently because Jack hasn't had the extensive training that you have had on handling that kind of situation.

vapacersfan
10-12-2006, 10:02 PM
You cant have your cake and eat it too

Even if you want to say anyone LEO would react differently because of his or her training (which I would not disagree with) I still think its common sense that you just cant go out firing a gun into the air. That is plain and simply a bad decision, and one that may end up costing Jax the most.

FrenchConnection
10-12-2006, 10:08 PM
I actually hope that Stephen gets the full sentence no matter what happened... He's been too much of a distraction and I would like him to sit out until the end of his contract year.

Talented? Yes... Athletic? Yes... But not the man I want wearing a Pacers uniform.

So you want Jackson to go to jail regardless if he is guilty of a crime or not? Listen, I hope that the Pacers can get out of his contract, but hoping that an innocent man (which I am not saying that Stephen is) goes to jail is cruel. The primary goal of the American judicial system should be, IMO, to be sure that no innocent people are in jail. The goal of law enforcement should be to punish the guilty and protect the innocent, not to lock up the innocent so that our favorite sports team can get out of a contract.

When I saw the pictures of Jack today, I thought that he looked scared. He looked like I would if I was looking at jail time. I actually feel bad for him, even though he acted with incredibly poor judgement and probably commited a crime.

vapacersfan
10-12-2006, 10:13 PM
So you want Jackson to go to jail regardless if he is guilty of a crime or not? Listen, I hope that the Pacers can get out of his contract, but hoping that an innocent man (which I am not saying that Stephen is) goes to jail is cruel. The primary goal of the American judicial system should be, IMO, to be sure that no innocent people are in jail. The goal of law enforcement should be to punish the guilty and protect the innocent, not to lock up the innocent so that our favorite sports team can get out of a contract.

When I saw the pictures of Jack today, I thought that he looked scared. He looked like I would if I was looking at jail time. I actually feel bad for him, even though he acted with incredibly poor judgement and probably commited a crime.

Great post!

JayRedd
10-12-2006, 10:16 PM
So you want Jackson to go to jail regardless if he is guilty of a crime or not? Listen, I hope that the Pacers can get out of his contract, but hoping that an innocent man (which I am not saying that Stephen is) goes to jail is cruel. The primary goal of the American judicial system should be, IMO, to be sure that no innocent people are in jail. The goal of law enforcement should be to punish the guilty and protect the innocent, not to lock up the innocent so that our favorite sports team can get out of a contract.

When I saw the pictures of Jack today, I thought that he looked scared. He looked like I would if I was looking at jail time. I actually feel bad for him, even though he acted with incredibly poor judgement and probably commited a crime.

True.

One of this country's founding ideals is based in the fact that it's better to let ten guilty men go free than to imprison one innocent man.

BlueNGold
10-12-2006, 10:17 PM
So you want Jackson to go to jail regardless if he is guilty of a crime or not? Listen, I hope that the Pacers can get out of his contract, but hoping that an innocent man (which I am not saying that Stephen is) goes to jail is cruel. The primary goal of the American judicial system should be, IMO, to be sure that no innocent people are in jail. The goal of law enforcement should be to punish the guilty and protect the innocent, not to lock up the innocent so that our favorite sports team can get out of a contract.

When I saw the pictures of Jack today, I thought that he looked scared. He looked like I would if I was looking at jail time. I actually feel bad for him, even though he acted with incredibly poor judgement and probably commited a crime.

Finally a balanced view on this. Whether it is Jack, Dino, Fingers or Toes, they all should be treated the same. Let the legal system sort this one out.

Eindar
10-13-2006, 02:51 AM
Given the "he said, he said" nature of the altercation, and the record of the Brothers Willford, I think the misdemeanors have no chance of sticking. The problem becomes that the shells were found outside the door of the club, and if they match Jackson's gun, he'll have to prove he was afraid for his own or another's personal safety/life. If it looks like they can't prove that, Jackson will plea the felony down to a misdemeanor, and might serve some time in jail in Detroit for violating probation. Either way, he'll do no more than 90 days max, more like 0-30, however.

P.S.: Gotta love Marquis' .45 Glock

DisplacedKnick
10-13-2006, 10:06 AM
Given the "he said, he said" nature of the altercation, and the record of the Brothers Willford, I think the misdemeanors have no chance of sticking. The problem becomes that the shells were found outside the door of the club, and if they match Jackson's gun, he'll have to prove he was afraid for his own or another's personal safety/life. If it looks like they can't prove that, Jackson will plea the felony down to a misdemeanor, and might serve some time in jail in Detroit for violating probation. Either way, he'll do no more than 90 days max, more like 0-30, however.

P.S.: Gotta love Marquis' .45 Glock

A chunk of the incident is on tape and there were dozens of witnesses.

This is far from a "he said, he said."

The latest zinger is here: http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061013/LOCAL/610130495/1006/LOCAL

I won't quote the whole thing but this is a killer:


Solomon strongly disagreed with Voyles' reading of the facts. He said the Pacers were the aggressors.

"My investigation has revealed that Stephen Jackson pointed his weapon directly at Deon Willford and jumped in front of the vehicle, putting himself in the path of the vehicle as Willford tried to leave," Solomon said.

"Deon was merely trying to get away from someone pointing a deadly weapon at him."

Now this is Wllford's defense attorney so it needs to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt - a truckload actually. I figured all along this would be the defense used. We'll see if it holds up.

Evan_The_Dude
10-13-2006, 11:39 AM
Would you be willing to let him try it on you? Should Jack have let him try?

Settle down now. I'm not siding with Fingers, I was just making a funny.

imawhat
10-13-2006, 12:54 PM
A bullet travels a lot faster than a car. Some guy comes up to you acting like he was going to pull a gun, you would turn your back on him and go to your car and try to get away?


Actually, Jackson did just that. He turned his back and went to his car. He obviously had enough time to get away, and by that point he wasn't even the focus of the argument. He was completely out of it.

The problem is that he re-inserted himself when he didn't need to and shots were fired two separate times. Some were aimed into the air, which is practically as dangerous as pointing a gun at someone.