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whodean
04-27-2004, 10:50 AM
Boston did not belong in the playoffs, maybe Miami will put up more than tissue paper resistance until ultimately the Pacers lose to the Pistons in the ECF.

Ragnar
04-27-2004, 10:54 AM
Hehehe so you think that because Detroit beat us one game all year and the one time they beat us Tinsley was out that they will win a series?

They beat us in a game when he had already eliminated them from being able to pass us for best record in the east. When we had already locked up home court and you think it was indicative of the playoffs?

Sorry but I think we will get past Detroit.

whodean
04-27-2004, 10:58 AM
I would be greatly surprised if a Pacers fan thought they WOULD lose, I'm here to say you are wrong.

The first game of the season was a luck-into it win for the Pacers and if the last game we played didn't mean anything to the Pacers then why did O'Neal play almost 40 minutes?

Ragnar
04-27-2004, 11:01 AM
I would be greatly surprised if a Pacers fan thought they WOULD lose, I'm here to say you are wrong.

The first game of the season was a luck-into it win for the Pacers and if the last game we played didn't mean anything to the Pacers then why did O'Neal played almost 40 minutes?

I am not saying they were not trying to win. But if you think that your defense will work on Tinsley the same as it worked on Anthony Johnson then you are in for a huge suprise.

Detroits entire perimiter D is based on ball pressure and Tinsley eats that for breakfast. AJ on the other hand it totaly useless if you press him. Heck he is mostly useless if you dont. Tins will break Detroits ball pressure very easily and that will make a huge impact.

Roy Munson
04-27-2004, 11:01 AM
Sorry but I think we will get past Detroit.

I don't think the Pacers will beat Detroit.

...

....

because Detroit won't get past New Jersey. The Pacers will beat New Jersey.

Ragnar
04-27-2004, 11:01 AM
Sorry but I think we will get past Detroit.

I don't think the Pacers will beat Detroit.

...

....

because Detroit won't get past New Jersey. The Pacers will beat New Jersey.

Not a bad point Roy. The whole perimiter D that they play will not work on Kidd at all.

fwpacerfan
04-27-2004, 11:03 AM
I would be greatly surprised if a Pacers fan thought they WOULD lose, I'm here to say you are wrong.

The first game of the season was a luck-into it win for the Pacers and if the last game we played didn't mean anything to the Pacers then why did O'Neal play almost 40 minutes?

The LAST game was a luck-into win for the Pistons. The Pacers had nothing to play for and the Pistons had EVERYTHING to play for - they had been humiliated by the Pacers in the 1st 3 games and they had something to prove. The next time they meet things will be on even ground and at that point we'll see who's better.

whodean
04-27-2004, 11:22 AM
"Not a bad point Roy. The whole perimiter D that they play will not work on Kidd at all.

The Pistons entire defensive scheme is built on strong man to man principles, the trap is another of a myriad of defensive options. J'Oneal can count on a Wallace in his grill and another one coming over to block his shot over the top, stop O'Neal, stop the Pacers.

indygeezer
04-27-2004, 11:29 AM
"Not a bad point Roy. The whole perimiter D that they play will not work on Kidd at all.

The Pistons entire defensive scheme is built on strong man to man principles, the trap is another of a myriad of defensive options. J'Oneal can count on a Wallace in his grill and another one coming over to block his shot over the top, stop O'Neal, stop the Pacers.



Hmmm, wonder how we won those games JO missed this year?

Let's get past the 2nd round and then we'll think about your smack. Oh wait...you're not out of the 1st round yet are you? Sorry, my bad.

whodean
04-27-2004, 11:32 AM
You can probably count on a lot of shots from Foster (stiff) Tinsley and Johnson (ineffective) and Artest (offensively overrated). It will be fun to see Corliss Williamson bounce the ball off Croshere or Harrington's dome this time, O'Neal is already used to it.

able
04-27-2004, 11:46 AM
The "overrated" Artest scores more on average in the regular season (and upped the ante in the playoffs) then ANY Pistonette.

Of course we do not count the fact that JO scores more and Al the same.

yep very over rated all of them :D

And Ragnar; game 4 i just watched, and AJ even got into trouble when Boston put some pressure on him, they tried is once or twice on Tins but that was a direct score, so they gave that up :D

Once the Pistonettes get out of the first round we can talk about a possible matchup in the ECF, but I still like the Pacers' chances to getting there a LOT better then theirs.

Pacers are ready for either Net, Pistons or Bucks.

Ragnar
04-27-2004, 11:52 AM
You can probably count on a lot of shots from Foster (stiff) Tinsley and Johnson (ineffective) and Artest (offensively overrated). It will be fun to see Corliss Williamson bounce the ball off Croshere or Harrington's dome this time, O'Neal is already used to it.

Not to point out too much reality to you here but lets get some things right.

First of all Artest who you claim is offensively inefective. Scored 21 points in the first game 22 in the second, Had a bad game for the 3rd game where he only scored 10 and had 16 in the third game without our point guard. So thats 17.25 a game against the Pistons. We will take that. Jermaine averaged 19.5 against yout fantastic D.

But here is the thing that should scare you the most. The one game you won and the two that were close were without Tinsley. The one game you faced the Pacers with Tinsley you lost 81-69.

Oh and your one win came on a Sunday afternoon. A full quarter of the Pacers losses have been on Sunday afternoons. I dont know why but they tend to not play that well durring the regular season on Sundays. Espesially when it was a meaningless game.

Cro always plays better durring the playoffs and Harrington is doing just fine thank you. I cant wait to see what Bender does to the Pistons that will be the most fun.

sweabs
04-27-2004, 12:10 PM
whodean:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/negative4.jpg

whodean
04-27-2004, 12:48 PM
The most hilarious thing is you Indy posers thinking TINSLEY is a difference maker! Bwahahahahaha

Ragnar
04-27-2004, 12:51 PM
The most hilarious thing is you Indy posers thinking TINSLEY is a difference maker! Bwahahahahaha

Come back in the ECF we will see who is laughing. Right now you guys need to.

a) get past the Bucks who you should have swept.

b) will have to get past the Nets whith a healthy Jason Kidd.

I am certain you will get past the Bucks but I am not certain you will get past the Nets.

Oh and one other thing regular season +/- leaders. Tinsley is #8. So yes I would think he is a difference maker. I know its just a stat but the bottom line is that the stats show that he is a difference maker.

AcneBrain
04-27-2004, 01:56 PM
The most hilarious thing is you Indy posers thinking TINSLEY is a difference maker! Bwahahahahaha

I guess you don't watch any Pacer games.

Didn't think so.

Southside_Pacer
04-27-2004, 02:34 PM
Ragnar, take it easy on the kid. ;)

We'll continue to discuss a potential Pacers/Pistons series with knowledgeable Pistons fans such as KStat, PistonsDynasty, and LiquidSlap.

Shade
04-27-2004, 02:40 PM
:pacers: 61-21/4-0/3-1
:pistons: 54-28/3-1/1-3

That's all you need to know. :pimp:

Southside_Pacer
04-27-2004, 02:47 PM
I nominate this thread for dumbest thread of the year. Anyone second that?

Yes

This thread = :bs:

obnoxiousmodesty
04-27-2004, 02:48 PM
The fact Tinsley was absent for three of the Pacers/Pistons games is significant. Jamaal has excellent court vision and time after time easily works his way around defensive pressure and traps. I don't think anyone feels JT is going to single-handedly beat the Pistons in the ECF (if our teams should meet), but there is a well-founded confidence among Pacers fans that Jamaal can be the player to beat Detroit's trapping backcourt defense. I guess time and opportunity will tell.

I tire of smack talk. By the way, I hope Detroit beats New Jersey (and I believe they will) because if the Pistons were to defeat the Pacers (yes, if the Pacers make the ECFs as well), then I feel I can still root for Detroit in the Finals. I hate the Nets. Detroit is one of my favorite teams, other than Indiana.

whodean
04-27-2004, 02:58 PM
By the way Pacers fans, I came over here mainly because of much worse trolling in the Pistons forum.

I think the Pistons are a better team than the Pacers and I have plenty to back that up (since the Sheed trade).

So are you pacer fanatics saying Tinsley is better than Billups?

whodean
04-27-2004, 03:02 PM
I AM talking basketball, can't take it? I realize people from Indiana are slow but sheesh.

Slick Pinkham
04-27-2004, 03:02 PM
So are you pacer fanatics saying Tinsley is better than Billups?

Nobody said he was.

Billups is far far better than Kenny Anderson or Anthony Johnson, whereas Tinsley might be comparable to Billups.

Turning your question around, are you Piston fanatics saying that the Pacers would be better off without Tinsley than with him?

whodean
04-27-2004, 03:04 PM
So are you pacer fanatics saying Tinsley is better than Billups?

Nobody said he was.

Billups is far far better than Kenny Anderson or Anthony Johnson, whereas Tinsley might be comparable to Billups.

Turning your question around, are you Piston fanatics saying that the Pacers would be better off without Tinsley than with him?

I'm saying it doesn't matter, anybody you throw out there at PG or C is inferior to the Pistons PG or C.

You better hope Prince doesn't show up on Artest because that is your only favorable matchup.

TheSauceMaster
04-27-2004, 03:05 PM
This is what happens when you troll other teams forums , I wont mention any names but I have seen some people trolling the pistons and celtics forums to name just a couple of teams forums.

MagicRat
04-27-2004, 03:08 PM
So are you pacer fanatics saying Tinsley is better than Billups?

Well, he did shoot a higher percentage and turn it over less than Chauncey did this season, with more assists/game in far fewer minutes.......

Slick Pinkham
04-27-2004, 03:12 PM
You better hope Prince doesn't show up on Artest because that is your only favorable matchup.

Please tell me about your favorable matchup with Jermaine.

:rolleyes:

then discuss bench depth.

:rolleyes:

whodean
04-27-2004, 03:12 PM
Billups will dominate Tinsley, and Hunter will eat Johnson alive. Pistons go 10 deep with 2 7-fters behind that. Okur, Williamson, James, Hunter and Ham/Campbell. Both of these teams have superb benches. O'Neal and R. Wallace are close to a wash.

indygeezer
04-27-2004, 03:14 PM
Man you guys have no clue.

Tinsley is garbage. O'Neal plays like Julie and not Jermain when he faces Wallace X 2.

Your bench can't check a roll of toilet paper.

If it wasn't for Artest you would be lucky to score 20pts on the Pistons.

Start getting scared boys+++++++++++


Those are weak opinion statements. Back-em up with facts troll or be dismised with NO credibility. Simple matter to claim somebody sux...prove it...otherwise STFU.

ROCislandWarrior
04-27-2004, 03:19 PM
whodean :idea: you need to shut up

you know your way off your rocker when our local Piston resident Kstat has not backed you up.

Why don't you get past Milwaukee first, then try to beat the Nets before you even start thinking about your team playing in the ECF!

Slick Pinkham
04-27-2004, 03:22 PM
O'Neal and R. Wallace are close to a wash.

:laugh:

:rotflmao:

:shakehead:

ChicagoJ
04-27-2004, 03:30 PM
The most hilarious thing is you Indy posers thinking TINSLEY is a difference maker! Bwahahahahaha

I guess you don't watch any Pacer games.

Didn't think so.

No, what's hilarious is that you don't realize that Tinsley is the difference maker for the Pacers. Its irrelevant how he matches up with Billups, because the important thing is Tinsley's ability to initiate the offense, manage the pace of the game, etc. The Pacers' game at both ends of the court starts with Tinsely ability to be a 'true' PG, although he puts up nice assist numbers that's now I'd recommend evaluating Tinsley.

To put it in words you can understand, its a lot like Rip. Rip is pretty good but he's not a great SG. But his ability to use screens, drill open jumpers, and swing the ball are critical for the Stones' success. If you had to play a crucial game without Rip and you lost, you'd recognize that his missing contribution affected the team more than just his missing points (which would, undoubtably, be made up by someone else)

So if you want to talk basketball, take some notes. Otherwise, you're quickly moving to the top of the "do not take seriously" list because you didn't do your homework before you came in here.

NewYawk
04-27-2004, 03:31 PM
"Not a bad point Roy. The whole perimiter D that they play will not work on Kidd at all.

The Pistons entire defensive scheme is built on strong man to man principles, the trap is another of a myriad of defensive options. J'Oneal can count on a Wallace in his grill and another one coming over to block his shot over the top, stop O'Neal, stop the Pacers.

Which Wallace? Because O'Neal can score on both of them.

ROCislandWarrior
04-27-2004, 03:32 PM
The most hilarious thing is you Indy posers thinking TINSLEY is a difference maker! Bwahahahahaha

I guess you don't watch any Pacer games.

Didn't think so.

No, what's hilarious is that you don't realize that Tinsley is the difference maker for the Pacers. Its irrelevant how he matches up with Billups, because the important thing is Tinsley's ability to initiate the offense, manage the pace of the game, etc. The Pacers' game at both ends of the court starts with Tinsely ability to be a 'true' PG, although he puts up nice assist numbers that's now I'd recommend evaluating Tinsley.

To put it in words you can understand, its a lot like Rip. Rip is pretty good but he's not a great SG. But his ability to use screens, drill open jumpers, and swing the ball are critical for the Stones' success. If you had to play a crucial game without Rip and you lost, you'd recognize that his missing contribution affected the team more than just his missing points (which would, undoubtably, be made up by someone else)

So if you want to talk basketball, take some notes. Otherwise, you're quickly moving to the top of the "do not take seriously" list because you didn't do your homework before you came in here.

Great Post Jay!

Can't wait to read the well educated response :rolleyes:

Kstat
04-27-2004, 03:32 PM
God what an embarrassing thread, on BOTH sides....... :unimpressed:

Hicks, you gotta get some use out of that "big red button" this May.....

whodean
04-27-2004, 03:47 PM
OK, I didn't come here just to troll, to reinterate the Pacers have it much easier than the Pistons on the way to the ECF, where the Pistons will beat them.

Indiana is a good team with a good coach, just not as good of a team with as good of a coach as Detroit.

Kstat
04-27-2004, 03:48 PM
OK, I didn't come here just to troll, to reinterate the Pacers have it much easier than the Pistons on the way to the ECF, where the Pistons will beat them.

Indiana is a good team with a good coach, just not as good of a team with as good of a coach as Detroit.

I'll vouch for WhoDean. He's a good guy.

Slick Pinkham
04-27-2004, 03:53 PM
I would be interested in learning just who besides whodean thinks the Rasheed Wallace-Jermaine O'Neal matchup is a wash.

He must be thinking about the days they were both in Portland. Now it ain't even close, just like Prince and Artest.

Rasheed is a good player, but JO is an MVP candidate, 2nd team all-NBA player, who is only second team because the two best players in the league, Garnett and Duncan, play his position.

whodean
04-27-2004, 03:55 PM
Head to head will answer that question, Sheed plays the best PFs in the league to a standstill. Not to mention that O'Neal will also have to deal with B. Wallace. I see O'Neal getting his 15-20 ppg but Sheed getting his too.

kerosene
04-27-2004, 04:01 PM
OK, I didn't come here just to troll, to reinterate the Pacers have it much easier than the Pistons on the way to the ECF, where the Pistons will beat them.

I don't think anyone will disagree with this. However, you have to keep in mind that this "easier path" was EARNED with the Pacers play during the regular season. This is obvious enough to most people.

Hoop
04-27-2004, 04:03 PM
I'll vouch for WhoDean. He's a good guy.

In your opinion he's a good guy, seems like a @ss doing some trolling to me.

Anybody with any knowledge at all knows boths teams are very good, deep and capable of winning it all. Anybody with any sense can't say that one team or the other is going to kick the others butt. We'll find out soon enough. I'll leave the trash talking to the trolling idiots.

MagicRat
04-27-2004, 04:04 PM
OK, I didn't come here just to troll, to reinterate the Pacers have it much easier than the Pistons on the way to the ECF, where the Pistons will beat them.

I don't think anyone will disagree with this..

Hey! I disagree with the last part....... :P

kerosene
04-27-2004, 04:05 PM
Hey! I disagree with the last part....... :P

Why I outta... :laugh:

indygeezer
04-27-2004, 04:05 PM
How do you answer the steamroller that includes: Harrington, Croshere, Bender, and Jones. All of whom are contributing greatly now? We can bring on a 2nd starting unit when we go to the bench...eventually they wear the opposition down.

whodean
04-27-2004, 04:12 PM
How do you answer the steamroller that includes: Harrington, Croshere, Bender, and Jones. .

Detroit answers it Williamson, Okur, James and Hunter with Ham and Campbell to boot.

Basically Harrington plays starter's minutes in favor of Reggie or Foster so he doesn't really count as a bench player (unless Reggie or Foster gets counted as a bench player).

Okur has shown more than Bender all season long, now its just a matter of finding minutes for him.

Croshere is not a factory and James/Hunter (veteran experience) equalizes Jones

Kstat
04-27-2004, 04:13 PM
How do you answer the steamroller that includes: Harrington, Croshere, Bender, and Jones. .

Detroit answers it Williamson, Okur, James and Hunter with Ham and Campbell to boot.

Basically Harrington plays starter's minutes in favor of Reggie or Foster so he doesn't really count as a bench player (unless Reggie or Foster gets counted as a bench player).

Okur has shown more than Bender all season long, now its just a matter of finding minutes for him.

Croshere is not a factory and James/Hunter (veteran experience) equalizes Jones

While Okur has PROVEN more, I thinm Bender has shown just as much raw ability. He just hasn't done it enough.

sweabs
04-27-2004, 04:15 PM
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/sucks.gif

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/sucks2.jpg

indygeezer
04-27-2004, 04:42 PM
How do you answer the steamroller that includes: Harrington, Croshere, Bender, and Jones. .

Detroit answers it Williamson, Okur, James and Hunter with Ham and Campbell to boot.

Basically Harrington plays starter's minutes in favor of Reggie or Foster so he doesn't really count as a bench player (unless Reggie or Foster gets counted as a bench player).

Okur has shown more than Bender all season long, now its just a matter of finding minutes for him.

Croshere is not a factory and James/Hunter (veteran experience) equalizes Jones

James has shown about as much as Bender, Okur about like Croshere (yes I said it and meant it), um don't short-sell Pollard either, what I'm getting at is we have DEPTH and use it every game. Larry Brown will shorten his bench the deeper he gets into the PO's. Our guys just keep coming and at the end of the game we'll have the fresher legs because of fewer minutes played.

whodean
04-27-2004, 04:45 PM
Okur about like Croshere (yes I said it and meant it)

You just labelled yourself as a homer looney.

Kstat
04-27-2004, 04:45 PM
How do you answer the steamroller that includes: Harrington, Croshere, Bender, and Jones. .

Detroit answers it Williamson, Okur, James and Hunter with Ham and Campbell to boot.

Basically Harrington plays starter's minutes in favor of Reggie or Foster so he doesn't really count as a bench player (unless Reggie or Foster gets counted as a bench player).

Okur has shown more than Bender all season long, now its just a matter of finding minutes for him.

Croshere is not a factory and James/Hunter (veteran experience) equalizes Jones

James has shown about as much as Bender, Okur about like Croshere (yes I said it and meant it), um don't short-sell Pollard either, what I'm getting at is we have DEPTH and use it every game. Larry Brown will shorten his bench the deeper he gets into the PO's. Our guys just keep coming and at the end of the game we'll have the fresher legs because of fewer minutes played.

The Boston series was an anomolie. You could have beaten Boston STARTING your bench. They were just that bad. But your bench isn't going to be able to match the play of Detroit's starters. Carlisle will shorten to 7-8 guys it just like every other coach has to.

ROCislandWarrior
04-27-2004, 05:13 PM
How do you answer the steamroller that includes: Harrington, Croshere, Bender, and Jones. .

Detroit answers it Williamson, Okur, James and Hunter with Ham and Campbell to boot.

Basically Harrington plays starter's minutes in favor of Reggie or Foster so he doesn't really count as a bench player (unless Reggie or Foster gets counted as a bench player).

Okur has shown more than Bender all season long, now its just a matter of finding minutes for him.

Croshere is not a factory and James/Hunter (veteran experience) equalizes Jones

James has shown about as much as Bender, Okur about like Croshere (yes I said it and meant it), um don't short-sell Pollard either, what I'm getting at is we have DEPTH and use it every game. Larry Brown will shorten his bench the deeper he gets into the PO's. Our guys just keep coming and at the end of the game we'll have the fresher legs because of fewer minutes played.

The Boston series was an anomolie. You could have beaten Boston STARTING your bench. They were just that bad. But your bench isn't going to be able to match the play of Detroit's starters. Carlisle will shorten to 7-8 guys it just like every other coach has to.

I agree

The question is, who will get the last two spots?

6.Al
7-8: Jones, AJ, Bender, Cro

indygeezer
04-27-2004, 05:16 PM
Why does he have to shorten our rotation if it's working?

diego
04-27-2004, 05:19 PM
I can see AJ seeing less minutes in this series due to his inability to handle the trapping pressing defense. jamal better be ready for a heavy load that series.

Hicks
04-27-2004, 05:20 PM
Why does he have to shorten our rotation if it's working?

Agreed. I think he'll keep at 9 men.

ROCislandWarrior
04-27-2004, 05:24 PM
Why does he have to shorten our rotation if it's working?

Lets wait until the next series to decide if it works or not. We didn't play a real team,

our bench>>>>>>boston's starters

but also

our bench<<<<<<Miami's Starters
our bench<<<<Hornets Starters

Ragnar
04-27-2004, 05:24 PM
I can see AJ seeing less minutes in this series due to his inability to handle the trapping pressing defense. jamal better be ready for a heavy load that series.

I am hoping Kenny gets the call for the Pistons series. I think the Heat would put a pretty good back court trap on AJ and he may get yanked in that series. The Celtics just were not smart enough to trap AJ.

Suaveness
04-27-2004, 05:34 PM
I do hope Kenny gets some time. I have nothing against AJ, but I do agree he has some trouble against the trap.

whodean
04-27-2004, 05:40 PM
Suaveness, I'll answer your o'neal/r. wallace question here:

Rasheed plays his best against the best, he could easily equalize O'Neal's impact on the game with his defensive and offensive ability.

http://www.freep.com/photos/2004/pistons0426/04pistons0426.jpg

Suaveness
04-27-2004, 05:44 PM
Suaveness, I'll answer your o'neal/r. wallace question here:

Rasheed plays his best against the best, he could easily equalize O'Neal's impact on the game with his defensive and offensive ability.

But just because he defends against the best doesn't mean he defends the best. O'Neal really can't be stopped, and he has proven that he can score on the likes of KG and TD. Rasheed cannot defend against JO, he is too talented. If Sheed can equalize O'Neal's game, he would be an all-star. But he isn't.

Kstat
04-27-2004, 05:45 PM
Suaveness, I'll answer your o'neal/r. wallace question here:

Rasheed plays his best against the best, he could easily equalize O'Neal's impact on the game with his defensive and offensive ability.

On that I have to agree.

Rasheed's best game as a Piston so was was against Tim Duncan. We lost at SA anyway, but Rasheed really outplayed DUncan, and he never needed any help defensively. According to most SA fans, Sheed has always played VERY well against KG and Duncan, and they are terrified of Detroit in the finals for that reason.

whodean
04-27-2004, 05:45 PM
http://www.freep.com/photos/2004/pistons0426/04pistons0426.jpg

Kstat
04-27-2004, 05:47 PM
Suaveness, I'll answer your o'neal/r. wallace question here:

Rasheed plays his best against the best, he could easily equalize O'Neal's impact on the game with his defensive and offensive ability.

But just because he defends against the best doesn't mean he defends the best. O'Neal really can't be stopped, and he has proven that he can score on the likes of KG and TD. Rasheed cannot defend against JO, he is too talented. If Sheed can equalize O'Neal's game, he would be an all-star. But he isn't.

Rahseed IS an all-star, ability wise. Playing in Portand was a waste of his skills. If Sheed re-signs in Detroit, he will be an all-star for the next 4-5 years. People that don;t watch Rasheed play every night do not realize what an incredibly talented player he is. He's one of the top 5 PFs in the entire league, maybe a top-10 player OVERALL.

ChicagoJ
04-27-2004, 05:51 PM
Why does he have to shorten our rotation if it's working?

Agreed. I think he'll keep at 9 men.

C'mon guys, it was working against Boston. You two plus ROC, me and Kstat could've beaten Boston (assuming Geez could shut down PP.)

But with that mentality, we'll keep losing in the ECFs as our bench plays against the other team's starters, like we've done many times in the past.

Basically, if Brown or Franks shortens his rotation, we MUST do the same. After all, that's a simple strategy for the lower seeded team (without homecourt) to try steal a game and make it a series.

I think it'll be eight men, but Bender won't get many minutes as the eighth man and AJ or KA will get spot (less than six) PG minutes (so on a technicality you could say he'll play nine guys.)

fwpacerfan
04-27-2004, 05:54 PM
How do you answer the steamroller that includes: Harrington, Croshere, Bender, and Jones. .

Detroit answers it Williamson, Okur, James and Hunter with Ham and Campbell to boot.

Basically Harrington plays starter's minutes in favor of Reggie or Foster so he doesn't really count as a bench player (unless Reggie or Foster gets counted as a bench player).

Okur has shown more than Bender all season long, now its just a matter of finding minutes for him.

Croshere is not a factory and James/Hunter (veteran experience) equalizes Jones

James has shown about as much as Bender, Okur about like Croshere (yes I said it and meant it), um don't short-sell Pollard either, what I'm getting at is we have DEPTH and use it every game. Larry Brown will shorten his bench the deeper he gets into the PO's. Our guys just keep coming and at the end of the game we'll have the fresher legs because of fewer minutes played.

The Boston series was an anomolie. You could have beaten Boston STARTING your bench. They were just that bad. But your bench isn't going to be able to match the play of Detroit's starters. Carlisle will shorten to 7-8 guys it just like every other coach has to.

The reason every other coach has to shorten their bench is because they don't have more than 3 guys off of the bench that present matchup problems for their opponent. The Pacers have about 9-10 guys who present matchup problems. I personally don't think Carlisle will shorten his bench that much.

As for all of the garbage being spewed back and forth all I'll say is this:

O'Neal is better than R. Wallace
Foster is equal to B. Wallace
Artest is better than Prince
Reggie is not as good as Rip
Tinsley is equal to Billups

I don't have any stats or anything to back this up but they don't seem to be pertinent to any of the Piston Trolls so I didn't figure I'd need them. :P

Suaveness
04-27-2004, 05:57 PM
Suaveness, I'll answer your o'neal/r. wallace question here:

Rasheed plays his best against the best, he could easily equalize O'Neal's impact on the game with his defensive and offensive ability.

But just because he defends against the best doesn't mean he defends the best. O'Neal really can't be stopped, and he has proven that he can score on the likes of KG and TD. Rasheed cannot defend against JO, he is too talented. If Sheed can equalize O'Neal's game, he would be an all-star. But he isn't.

Rahseed IS an all-star, ability wise. Playing in Portand was a waste of his skills. If Sheed re-signs in Detroit, he will be an all-star for the next 4-5 years. People that don;t watch Rasheed play every night do not realize what an incredibly talented player he is. He's one of the top 5 PFs in the entire league, maybe a top-10 player OVERALL.

Duncan, Garnett, O'Neal, Brand (maybe), Kirilenko, Kmartin (maybe), Nowitski, Webber, Gasol, Randolph are all better than Sheed in my opinion. He is a talented player, and he is very good. But he is not good enough to neutralize O'Neal.

Kstat
04-27-2004, 05:59 PM
As for all of the garbage being spewed back and forth all I'll say is this:

O'Neal is better than R. Wallace
Foster is equal to B. Wallace
Artest is better than Prince
Reggie is not as good as Rip
Tinsley is equal to Billups

http://www.simpsoncrazy.com/homer/g5.gif

Kstat
04-27-2004, 06:02 PM
Suaveness, I'll answer your o'neal/r. wallace question here:

Rasheed plays his best against the best, he could easily equalize O'Neal's impact on the game with his defensive and offensive ability.

But just because he defends against the best doesn't mean he defends the best. O'Neal really can't be stopped, and he has proven that he can score on the likes of KG and TD. Rasheed cannot defend against JO, he is too talented. If Sheed can equalize O'Neal's game, he would be an all-star. But he isn't.

Rahseed IS an all-star, ability wise. Playing in Portand was a waste of his skills. If Sheed re-signs in Detroit, he will be an all-star for the next 4-5 years. People that don;t watch Rasheed play every night do not realize what an incredibly talented player he is. He's one of the top 5 PFs in the entire league, maybe a top-10 player OVERALL.

Duncan, Garnett, O'Neal, Brand (maybe), Kirilenko, Kmartin (maybe), Nowitski, Webber, Gasol, Randolph are all better than Sheed in my opinion. He is a talented player, and he is very good. But he is not good enough to neutralize O'Neal.

Rasheed has more ability on both ends than Gasol, Webber, and Randolph, none of whom can guard my grandmother in the post, and he's a better offensive player than Kirilinko and KMart, who would be average without Kidd spoonfeeding him 5 dunks a game.

I'd go Duncan, Garnett, JO, Dirk and then Rasheed.

ChicagoJ
04-27-2004, 06:02 PM
Suaveness, I'll answer your o'neal/r. wallace question here:

Rasheed plays his best against the best, he could easily equalize O'Neal's impact on the game with his defensive and offensive ability.

But just because he defends against the best doesn't mean he defends the best. O'Neal really can't be stopped, and he has proven that he can score on the likes of KG and TD. Rasheed cannot defend against JO, he is too talented. If Sheed can equalize O'Neal's game, he would be an all-star. But he isn't.

Rahseed IS an all-star, ability wise. Playing in Portand was a waste of his skills. If Sheed re-signs in Detroit, he will be an all-star for the next 4-5 years. People that don;t watch Rasheed play every night do not realize what an incredibly talented player he is. He's one of the top 5 PFs in the entire league, maybe a top-10 player OVERALL.

Duncan, Garnett, O'Neal, Brand (maybe), Kirilenko, Kmartin (maybe), Nowitski, Webber, Gasol, Randolph are all better than Sheed in my opinion. He is a talented player, and he is very good. But he is not good enough to neutralize O'Neal.

He also happens to be in his walk year. Funny how he's suddenly been trying and behaving this year. I'm not going to comment on anything else in there because my brain hurts. But it's hardly a coincidence that he's suddenly "dedicated" when he realized how much the Pistons would be willing to pay him.

Overheard on the intercom:
Paging Bart and Lisa's Dad.
Paging Bart and Lisa's Dad.

I agree with Kstat on that one. 'Sheed is a major talent, but everyone (wrongly, IMO) dismisses that because of his attitude in a bad situation in Portland.

He's at least a top-five PF. Probably #4 behind only Duncan, KG and JO (If I have to include him at PF, and you all know how I feel about that.)

whodean
04-27-2004, 06:02 PM
O'Neal is better than R. Wallace
Foster is equal to B. Wallace
Artest is better than Prince
Reggie is not as good as Rip
Tinsley is equal to Billups

I don't have any stats or anything to back this up but they don't seem to be pertinent to any of the Piston Trolls so I didn't figure I'd need them. :P

HOMER! O'Neal better than Wallace I will give you Foster equal to Ben???? BS

Tinsley better than CBILL???? BS

Hicks
04-27-2004, 06:06 PM
I'd go Duncan, Garnett, JO, Dirk and then Rasheed.

Dirk?! :wtf:

Kstat
04-27-2004, 06:06 PM
O'Neal is better than R. Wallace
Foster is equal to B. Wallace
Artest is better than Prince
Reggie is not as good as Rip
Tinsley is equal to Billups

I don't have any stats or anything to back this up but they don't seem to be pertinent to any of the Piston Trolls so I didn't figure I'd need them. :P

HOMER! O'Neal better than Wallace I will give you Foster equal to Ben???? BS

Tinsley better than CBILL???? BS

DOn't dignify it with a response, WhoDean. He's just trying to bait you. Anyone with a brain can look at those comments and say he's obviously wrong.

Kstat
04-27-2004, 06:07 PM
I'd go Duncan, Garnett, JO, Dirk and then Rasheed.

Dirk?! :wtf:

I have to include Dirk, because as defensively challenged as he is, he's simply the best offensive PF in the game today. I have to make an exception for him.

whodean
04-27-2004, 06:53 PM
Now this guy is trolling his own board!

TheSauceMaster
04-27-2004, 07:04 PM
I would like to thank everyone for the great comedy show , please keep it up and I need more :lurk:

flip
04-27-2004, 07:37 PM
I AM talking basketball, can't take it? I realize people from Indiana are slow but sheesh.

Hey dipstick. Don't ever talk about the Pacers fans. I've been posting over on the Pisstoons site, many are good fans, but you have many real goof balls on your side. they get lost in their thinking, so end up tring to
?? [some say rap] or start mailing recipes. you should feel honored to be able to come here and have a sensible conversation ! ! !

Slick Pinkham
04-27-2004, 07:57 PM
O'Neal > R. Wallace (+1)
Foster << B. Wallace (-2)
Artest >>>> Prince (+4)
Reggie << Rip (-2)
Tinsley = Billups (0)
Pacers bench > Pistons bench (+1)

That gives the Pacers a good ole +2 on the "matchup meter"

:)

Kstat
04-27-2004, 08:00 PM
O'Neal > R. Wallace (+1)
Foster << B. Wallace (-2)
Artest >>>> Prince (+4)
Reggie << Rip (-2)
Tinsley = Billups (0)
Pacers bench > Pistons bench (+1)

That gives the Pacers a good ole +2 on the "matchup meter"

:)

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Hicks
04-27-2004, 08:09 PM
Too much sarcasm/snobbish attitude in this thread. :puke:

Snickers
04-27-2004, 08:18 PM
Jermaine O'neal's cornrows > Rip Hamilton's cornrows [+2]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20040421/mdf544544.jpg > http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040422/capt.dtp10504220231.bucks_pistons_dtp105.jpg

This is a no-brainer. Rip's are just plain old boring.

Jamison Brewer's hair < Ben Wallace's hair [-1]

http://www.nba.com/media/pacers/brewer_gallery4_0304.jpg > http://homepages.wmich.edu/~a2dilley/wallace004.jpg

Not to discredit Jamison, but Ben has an edge in follicular versatility. He can outmaneuver you with the aerodynamic and oh-so-trendy cornrows or just blow you out with the power afro. -1.

Scot Pollard's facial hair < Larry Brown's sweater [-2]
http://www.nba.com/media/pacers/game44_gallery12_040120.jpg < http://www.remembertheaba.com/OnlyintheABAMaterial/LarryBrownRainbowSweater.JPG

Scot's aesthetic creativity is unmatched by any player in the league today. But Larry B.... is another story altogether. The grasshopper bows to the master, -2.

Pistons have the edge.... Looks like the numbers are against us. :(

Oh well. There's always next season. Maybe Ron will bleach his hair.

Hicks
04-27-2004, 08:20 PM
Jermaine O'neal's cornrows > Rip Hamilton's cornrows [+2]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20040421/mdf544544.jpg > http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040422/capt.dtp10504220231.bucks_pistons_dtp105.jpg

This is a no-brainer. Rip's are just plain old boring.

Jamison Brewer's hair < Ben Wallace's hair [-1]

http://www.nba.com/media/pacers/brewer_gallery4_0304.jpg > http://homepages.wmich.edu/~a2dilley/wallace004.jpg

Not to discredit Jamison, but Ben has an edge in follicular versatility. He can outmaneuver you with the aerodynamic and oh-so-trendy cornrows or just blow you out with the power afro. -1.

Scot Pollard's facial hair < Larry Brown's sweater [-2]
http://www.nba.com/media/pacers/game44_gallery12_040120.jpg < http://www.remembertheaba.com/OnlyintheABAMaterial/LarryBrownRainbowSweater.JPG

Scot's aesthetic creativity is unmatched by any player in the league today. But Larry B.... is another story altogether. The grasshopper bows to the master, -2.

Pistons have the edge.... Looks like the numbers are against us. :(

Oh well. There's always next season. Maybe Ron will bleach his hair.

:laugh:

AcneBrain
04-27-2004, 08:31 PM
Let's not forget that the Pistons have a worse record than the Pacers, and in the NBA the better your record is the worse your team is.

Pistons in 5.

:unimpressed:

Suaveness
04-27-2004, 09:56 PM
Jermaine O'neal's cornrows > Rip Hamilton's cornrows [+2]

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20040421/mdf544544.jpg > http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040422/capt.dtp10504220231.bucks_pistons_dtp105.jpg

This is a no-brainer. Rip's are just plain old boring.

Jamison Brewer's hair < Ben Wallace's hair [-1]

http://www.nba.com/media/pacers/brewer_gallery4_0304.jpg > http://homepages.wmich.edu/~a2dilley/wallace004.jpg

Not to discredit Jamison, but Ben has an edge in follicular versatility. He can outmaneuver you with the aerodynamic and oh-so-trendy cornrows or just blow you out with the power afro. -1.

Scot Pollard's facial hair < Larry Brown's sweater [-2]
http://www.nba.com/media/pacers/game44_gallery12_040120.jpg < http://www.remembertheaba.com/OnlyintheABAMaterial/LarryBrownRainbowSweater.JPG

Scot's aesthetic creativity is unmatched by any player in the league today. But Larry B.... is another story altogether. The grasshopper bows to the master, -2.

Pistons have the edge.... Looks like the numbers are against us. :(

Oh well. There's always next season. Maybe Ron will bleach his hair.


:rotflmao:

whodean
04-27-2004, 10:40 PM
One thing's for sure, it'll be a helluva series.

whodean
04-27-2004, 10:42 PM
By the way, here is a little excerpt of what we were graciously granted with on the Pistons board:

Masterpacer - Apr 27, 2004 5:05 pm (#45 of 48)
Gogo Pacers

Hello may name is Ben W. I reside in Detroit at this moment. Im the youngest son of a one legged whore and a blind dog. May turn-ons are moonlight dinners, love movies and big hairy balls. In my spear time I like to butch up my reading with a little green eggs and ham and I enjoy combing the 4 feet of pubes I have on the top of my head. People most commonly refer to me as Ron's ***** but lets just keep that between you and me (wouldn't want to make that egg head Billup's jealous).

fwpacerfan
04-28-2004, 08:39 AM
O'Neal is better than R. Wallace
Foster is equal to B. Wallace
Artest is better than Prince
Reggie is not as good as Rip
Tinsley is equal to Billups

I don't have any stats or anything to back this up but they don't seem to be pertinent to any of the Piston Trolls so I didn't figure I'd need them. :P

HOMER! O'Neal better than Wallace I will give you Foster equal to Ben???? BS

Tinsley better than CBILL???? BS

DOn't dignify it with a response, WhoDean. He's just trying to bait you. Anyone with a brain can look at those comments and say he's obviously wrong.

Of course I'm wrong - that was the point. I wanted to make some stupid statements to match the "Rasheed can stop JO on one leg" and "Prince will outmuscle, out defend and outscore Artest" comments that keep showing up in this thread.

whodean
04-28-2004, 08:49 AM
I never said either.

I DID say that Rasheed could make the O'Neal matchup a wash and that Prince better show up on Artest.

Snickers
04-28-2004, 01:01 PM
I've got no real reason to weigh in on this, but I'm bored.

If we match up with Detroit, JO will be a very important part of our potential success. I haven't seen enough of Rasheed to make a firm assessment of his low-post D, but I don't think he can take JO 1-on-1. And it seems Jermain usually gets his way with Ben. So if he's on his game, Jermaine could cause some serious problems for the Pistons.

Ron will be on Rip quite a bit, and hopefully he'll be able to keep up with him around screens and such. Ron's best when defending the straight-up swingmen, the guys who'll try to take you 1-on-1. Rip's a little more off-the-ball with how he gets his looks. Reggie's been able to do a decent [not great, but enough to keep him from exploding] job on Rip, which is a good thing in case Prince or someone else gets hot, so we can put Ron on that guy.

Foster is a good defender, and is good at pestering his man. O'neal will probably take Rasheed on D, and I wouldn't be surprised if Jeff gives Ben some room, letting him either take Js or drive to the rim, where he'll get either blocked or fouled. Either way, we save 2 points. :D

PG could be a problem for us. Hopefully Jamaal is focused, because we'll need his D to be sharp. Also, I hope Rasheed doesn't stand around the perimeter too much, so we can keep JO under the basket for shot-blocking and rebounding.

Anyway, just by 2 cents. Well, more like a nickel. Whatever.

:neutral:

ChicagoJ
04-28-2004, 03:37 PM
The most hilarious thing is you Indy posers thinking TINSLEY is a difference maker! Bwahahahahaha

I guess you don't watch any Pacer games.

Didn't think so.

No, what's hilarious is that you don't realize that Tinsley is the difference maker for the Pacers. Its irrelevant how he matches up with Billups, because the important thing is Tinsley's ability to initiate the offense, manage the pace of the game, etc. The Pacers' game at both ends of the court starts with Tinsely ability to be a 'true' PG, although he puts up nice assist numbers that's now I'd recommend evaluating Tinsley.

To put it in words you can understand, its a lot like Rip. Rip is pretty good but he's not a great SG. But his ability to use screens, drill open jumpers, and swing the ball are critical for the Stones' success. If you had to play a crucial game without Rip and you lost, you'd recognize that his missing contribution affected the team more than just his missing points (which would, undoubtably, be made up by someone else)

So if you want to talk basketball, take some notes. Otherwise, you're quickly moving to the top of the "do not take seriously" list because you didn't do your homework before you came in here.

Great Post Jay!

Can't wait to read the well educated response :rolleyes:


Did I miss the response? I didn't see it anywhere.

:zip: :devil:

whodean
04-28-2004, 04:59 PM
The most hilarious thing is you Indy posers thinking TINSLEY is a difference maker! Bwahahahahaha

I guess you don't watch any Pacer games.

Didn't think so.

No, what's hilarious is that you don't realize that Tinsley is the difference maker for the Pacers. Its irrelevant how he matches up with Billups, because the important thing is Tinsley's ability to initiate the offense, manage the pace of the game, etc. The Pacers' game at both ends of the court starts with Tinsely ability to be a 'true' PG, although he puts up nice assist numbers that's now I'd recommend evaluating Tinsley.

To put it in words you can understand, its a lot like Rip. Rip is pretty good but he's not a great SG. But his ability to use screens, drill open jumpers, and swing the ball are critical for the Stones' success. If you had to play a crucial game without Rip and you lost, you'd recognize that his missing contribution affected the team more than just his missing points (which would, undoubtably, be made up by someone else)

So if you want to talk basketball, take some notes. Otherwise, you're quickly moving to the top of the "do not take seriously" list because you didn't do your homework before you came in here.

Great Post Jay!

Can't wait to read the well educated response :rolleyes:


Did I miss the response? I didn't see it anywhere.

:zip: :devil:

Alright, I'll take a stab at it. Tinsley is the worst PG of all the remaining playoff teams.

Hicks
04-28-2004, 05:06 PM
Alright, I'll take a stab at it. Tinsley is the worst PG of all the remaining playoff teams.

Indiana
Detroit
Milwaukee
New Jersey
Miami
NO
SA
LA
Minnesota
Sacramento
Dallas
Denver
Houston

You really think Milwaukee's (current) starting point is better than Tinsley? And Raefer Alston? And Andre Miller?

Ragnar
04-28-2004, 05:10 PM
Alright, I'll take a stab at it. Tinsley is the worst PG of all the remaining playoff teams.

I thought the Rockets, Bucks, Pistons, Spurs and Heat were still playing?

I might give you BD when healthy and not jacking up ill advised shots. And I cant argue with Jason Kidd. Gary Payton is still there I guess even though his D has slipped a lot. Bibby is better right now.

But you think Francis, Knight, Chauncy, Parker and Alston are better?

Francis sucks he needs to be traded. He is not even a point guard he just plays one on TV with Shatner like skill. Do I even need to talk about Knight?

Parker and Chauncy are great shooting guards but they are not true point guards. You can pressure them and they will turn it over. They take a lot of shots because they are not as good at getting the ball to teamates. Alston is getting there but he is not as good either he is still too turnover and stupid error prone.

Need I remind you that the only time Tins and Chauncy have gone head to head this year that Chauncy turned the ball over more times than he got assists and did not manage to steal the ball from Tins once?

ChicagoJ
04-28-2004, 06:24 PM
The most hilarious thing is you Indy posers thinking TINSLEY is a difference maker! Bwahahahahaha

I guess you don't watch any Pacer games.

Didn't think so.

No, what's hilarious is that you don't realize that Tinsley is the difference maker for the Pacers. Its irrelevant how he matches up with Billups, because the important thing is Tinsley's ability to initiate the offense, manage the pace of the game, etc. The Pacers' game at both ends of the court starts with Tinsely ability to be a 'true' PG, although he puts up nice assist numbers that's now I'd recommend evaluating Tinsley.

To put it in words you can understand, its a lot like Rip. Rip is pretty good but he's not a great SG. But his ability to use screens, drill open jumpers, and swing the ball are critical for the Stones' success. If you had to play a crucial game without Rip and you lost, you'd recognize that his missing contribution affected the team more than just his missing points (which would, undoubtably, be made up by someone else)

So if you want to talk basketball, take some notes. Otherwise, you're quickly moving to the top of the "do not take seriously" list because you didn't do your homework before you came in here.

Great Post Jay!

Can't wait to read the well educated response :rolleyes:


Did I miss the response? I didn't see it anywhere.

:zip: :devil:

Alright, I'll take a stab at it. Tinsley is the worst PG of all the remaining playoff teams.

:fly:

I'm assuming you gave a smart@$$ answer because I called you out, and that's :cool: if that's how you want to play. You can't possibly be serious so I'm not going to take this answer seriously.

Although I'm dying to say that by using your flawed logic, Rip is the worst 2-guard of all the remaining playoff teams. So the Pistons must be doomed. :P But again, its Rip's ability to use screens, and the fact that he's the only guy on the Pistons' roster that can use the screens, that make also him invaluable to the Pistons' hope for success. But since I've vowed not to take your answer seriously I won't say it.

:pepper:

whodean
04-28-2004, 07:06 PM
I was referring to teams that make it to the second round (I'm making some assumptions on which team wins in the 1st round)

Payton
Parker
Cassell
Bibby
Billups
Wade
Kidd

All better than Tinsley for one reason or the other.

Lets take a look at SGs

Rip Hamilton is better than Kittles, Eddie Jones, Reggie, Christie, Bowen and Hassell so he's the second best SG left in the second round (after Kobe) how many of them are better than Reggie???

All in all Detroit has the best backcourt of playoff teams with Payton/Kobe right there.

whodean
04-28-2004, 07:10 PM
All in all Detroit has the best backcourt of playoff teams with Payton/Kobe right there.

Did you just say Billups/Hamilton is better than Payton/KOBE?



Its closer than you casual fans think but Payton/Kobe is better.

Kstat
04-28-2004, 07:11 PM
All in all Detroit has the best backcourt of playoff teams with Payton/Kobe right there.

Did you just say Billups/Hamilton is better than Payton/KOBE?


You probably have him mistaken. I hope......

Southside_Pacer
04-28-2004, 07:12 PM
All in all Detroit has the best backcourt of playoff teams with Payton/Kobe right there.

Did you just say Billups/Hamilton is better than Payton/KOBE?



Its closer than you casual fans think but Payton/Kobe is better.

Are you calling us here casual fans? :rolleyes: :banned: :wtf: :lol2: :maniac: :fatbanana:

Kstat
04-28-2004, 07:12 PM
I was referring to teams that make it to the second round (I'm making some assumptions on which team wins in the 1st round)

Payton
Parker
Cassell
Bibby
Billups
Wade
Kidd

All better than Tinsley for one reason or the other.

Lets take a look at SGs

Rip Hamilton is better than Kittles, Eddie Jones, Reggie, Christie, Bowen and Hassell so he's the second best SG left in the second round (after Kobe) how many of them are better than Reggie???

All in all Detroit has the best backcourt of playoff teams with Payton/Kobe right there.

In Jamal's defense., he's really improved this year. He's better than he was last year.

That said, I don't think Tins overall is as good as Billups.

Southside_Pacer
04-28-2004, 07:18 PM
Nor would any rational person. But you'll find people so infatuated with Tins they will arguehe's the greatest player in the history of the world. Just like you'll find people who will argue that Billups/Hamilton is better than Kobe/My left nut.

People wouldn't do that in this thread would they? :whoknows: :uhoh:

Arcadian
04-28-2004, 07:39 PM
I think its a iffy statement saying that Detroit is neck and neck with the Lakers for the best backcourt.

How many all stars are in that backcourt? How many all NBA team members are in Detroits backcourt?

Both are nice players but I'm not convienced that Detroit has the best or second best backcourt in the East.

Kstat
04-28-2004, 07:42 PM
I think its a iffy statement saying that Detroit is neck and neck with the Lakers for the best backcourt.

How many all stars are in that backcourt? How many all NBA team members are in Detroits backcourt?

Both are nice players but I'm not convienced that Detroit has the best or second best backcourt in the East.

Talent-wise, its a no-brainer. For that reason I think it's a bad debate.

However, if I WANTED to, I could sure make a case for Billups/Hamilton based on chemistry. Payton and Kobe mix like oil and water. There's a reason why derek fisher plays the 4th qtr and not Payton.

Just something to think about.

Oh, and while I think Kittles/Kidd has proven more than any guard pair in the east, Rip and Chauncey could become the best if they can make the finals, or at least outplay Kidd/Kittles.

waxman
04-28-2004, 07:42 PM
All in all Detroit has the best backcourt of playoff teams with Payton/Kobe right there.

Did you just say Billups/Hamilton is better than Payton/KOBE?



Its closer than you casual fans think but Payton/Kobe is better.

Casual fans? Don't come here acting like an arrogant prick.

Too Late...

ChicagoJ
04-28-2004, 11:45 PM
All in all Detroit has the best backcourt of playoff teams with Payton/Kobe right there.

Did you just say Billups/Hamilton is better than Payton/KOBE?



Its closer than you casual fans think but Payton/Kobe is better.


:crazy:

Suaveness
04-29-2004, 01:42 AM
All in all Detroit has the best backcourt of playoff teams with Payton/Kobe right there.

Did you just say Billups/Hamilton is better than Payton/KOBE?



Its closer than you casual fans think but Payton/Kobe is better.


:crazy:

:crazy: ^2

whodean
04-29-2004, 08:59 AM
OK, I'll put it this way,

Billups/Hamilton

Tinsley/Reggie

Wade/Jones

Kidd/Kittles

I'll take Billups/Hamilton.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/pistons/0404/29/p01-137316.htm

whodean
04-29-2004, 04:51 PM
Kidd/Kittles is the only one close.

Suaveness
04-29-2004, 04:56 PM
Kidd/Kittles is the only one close.

Just having Kidd makes that group better.

MagicRat
04-29-2004, 05:00 PM
OK, I'll put it this way,

Billups/Hamilton

Tinsley/Reggie

Wade/Jones

Kidd/Kittles

I'll take Billups/Hamilton.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/pistons/0404/29/p01-137316.htm

Maybe some people here aren't buying that because your duo is 1-3 and shooting a combined .308 (31-104) against the Pacers' inferior guards.....:whoknows:

Arcadian
04-29-2004, 06:58 PM
What do you mean by the best backcourt?

Are you saying that Billups and Rip would beat the other backcourts in two on two. If that's the case I think the only backcourt you'ld beat would be the Pacers'.

Are you saying that if you switched backcourts with other teams backcourts say putting Jones/Wade in for Detroit and Rip/Billups in for Miami the trade would always make the other team better? I'd say NJ would be worse, Miami would be even and Indiana would be better. Rip/Billups benifits a lot be playing in front of the Wallaces as would any other backcourt otherwise I think they would be a defensive liablity.

Are you saying that you are a Pistons fan and have a high apperciation for your boys? Well at least you are being honest when you say they are the best backcourt.

Hoop
04-30-2004, 02:09 AM
All this crying about who's better at what position and individual matchups is getting boring. It really comes down to what complete team is better.

I would NOT trade the Pacers roster, coach or GM for ANY other teams roster, coach or GM at the present time.

Does that mean we're going to win it all this year? No. But I like our chances as good as anyones this year................ and in the future.

Peck
04-30-2004, 06:17 AM
All this crying about who's better at what position and individual matchups is getting boring. It really comes down to what complete team is better.

I would NOT trade the Pacers roster, coach or GM for ANY other teams roster, coach or GM at the present time.

Does that mean we're going to win it all this year? No. But I like our chances as good as anyones this year................ and in the future.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

whodean
04-30-2004, 08:16 AM
[quote]All this crying about who's better at what position and individual matchups is getting boring. It really comes down to what complete team is better.

I would NOT trade the Pacers roster, coach or GM for ANY other teams roster, coach or GM at the present time.

Does that mean we're going to win it all this year? No. But I like our chances as good as anyones this year................ and in the future.

And I wouldn't trade the Pistons future. Right now we are focused on Jersey. Here's my analysis, Pistons will force Kidd, Jefferson and Martin to shoot from the perimeter in the half court game and limit them to 80 ppg, winning the series in 5 or 6.

Suaveness
04-30-2004, 01:07 PM
[quote]All this crying about who's better at what position and individual matchups is getting boring. It really comes down to what complete team is better.

I would NOT trade the Pacers roster, coach or GM for ANY other teams roster, coach or GM at the present time.

Does that mean we're going to win it all this year? No. But I like our chances as good as anyones this year................ and in the future.

And I wouldn't trade the Pistons future. Right now we are focused on Jersey. Here's my analysis, Pistons will force Kidd, Jefferson and Martin to shoot from the perimeter in the half court game and limit them to 80 ppg, winning the series in 5 or 6.

You can't really force Kidd to do anything...he's too good for that. And Jefferson can shoot from the outside.

waxman
04-30-2004, 03:25 PM
NJ is a better defensive team than the Bucks.... they'll pressure the ball, create some turnovers and try to push the tempo of the game to get early offense....which is key against Detroits stingy half court defense... the Nets won't be able to score if they allow the Pistons time to "dig-in" defensively in the half court.

That will be a very interesting series..."Styles Make Fights",...as they say.

Who will impose their will?


Pacers meanwhile need to take care of business whether it be Mia or NO...and look to the Nets/Pistons series for clues on beating both teams.

whodean
04-30-2004, 03:33 PM
IF Miami/NO goes 7 you guys start when Thursday? That is a long *** layoff.

Kstat
04-30-2004, 03:34 PM
IF Miami/NO goes 7 you guys start when Thursday? That is a long *** layoff.

I know. It's annoying as hell.

SA and LA will have already played 2 games by then.....

whodean
05-01-2004, 11:35 AM
two weeks on the rack will make your Pacers really rusty in the second round, if the Hornets pull out a home win and can gut out game 7 in Miami I see them putting up a stiff resistance.

<---------------------------How many of these do the Pacers have?

Shade
05-01-2004, 11:44 AM
two weeks on the rack will make your Pacers really rusty in the second round, if the Hornets pull out a home win and can gut out game 7 in Miami I see them putting up a stiff resistance.

Miami is a horrid road team. At worst, we win in 7. I'll be amazed if Miami takes more than 1 game (assuming, of course, that the Heat finish the Hornets).

<---------------------------How many of these do the Pacers have?

Bad Boys rings? Zero. Championship rings? Three. :cool:

whodean
05-01-2004, 11:52 AM
Hmm, I must have missed the Pacers winning the NBA Championship. ABA don't count.

MSA2CF
05-01-2004, 11:54 AM
ABA don't count.

Just because it no longer exists doesn't mean it didn't matter & that applies to a lot of things.

Shade
05-01-2004, 11:55 AM
ABA don't count.

Actually, it does. It may not matter to you, but it does count. That's why the banners are in the rafters.

Btw, stop trolling.

whodean
05-06-2004, 02:20 PM
ABA don't count.

Actually, it does. It may not matter to you, but it does count. That's why the banners are in the rafters.


Keep telling yourself that

Ragnar
05-06-2004, 02:22 PM
This is all our fault in Fort Wayne for letting the Pistons relocate to Detroit. Long live the Zolner Pistons!

Hicks
05-06-2004, 03:16 PM
ABA don't count.

Actually, it does. It may not matter to you, but it does count. That's why the banners are in the rafters.


Keep telling yourself that

If you can't respect the ABA, don't expect any respect from any of us.

ChicagoJ
05-06-2004, 03:22 PM
ABA don't count.

Actually, it does. It may not matter to you, but it does count. That's why the banners are in the rafters.


Keep telling yourself that

whodean < :unimpressed: