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View Full Version : Odd thoughts as we enter the pre-season....



Peck
10-12-2006, 04:07 AM
Well I might as well deal with the pink elephant in the room right up front.

Other than a few small snippets here & there I have kept pretty quiet about the entire Jackson incident. I guess now is as good a time as any to weigh in on the subject.

Like many of you I was stunned when I first heard the news, in fact I thought it was a joke. But much to my dismay I quickly learned that this was all to real.

As news bits started to leak out the forum started to quickly devide & as one of our nations founding fathers said "Passion began to govern & she never governs wisely".

To many people started to get to hung up on whatever their point of view was & quickly the lines were drawn. Ironicly if you notice the deviding lines were almost identical here as they were a year ago when we were dealing with Artest.

So I spent the first few days of this trying my best just to keep threads merged & not let the forum descend into being nothing but the Stephen Jackson digest.

I'll just say this about the entire thing. It makes me ill.

I'm serious, it makes me ill because of what should have been & now what it is & sadly what it will become.

We should have been excited about the upcoming season with a new revamped roster with the verbal commitment from management to see real and significant change.

What we have is daily news berbs about the entire fiasco. It's like chinese water torture, it just keeps coming slowly but surely every time.

What we will have, for at least awhile, is a team that will once again be beset upon by questions other than how they are playing on the floor.

This is sad, truely sad.

I don't blame Jackson & company for being in an adult establishment. It is a perfectly leagle activity & while I don't choose to go there that does not mean that nobody else can.

I don't blame Jackson for being out late on a practice night. The team does not have a curfue & I guess they let the players police (no pun intended) themselves. I'm not saying I'm happy about it & in fact I wish they wouldn't have but again no rule was broken here.

I don't blame Jackson for carrying a gun. In fact I applaude him for having the proper permits to carry it, not everybody goes through the trouble.

I wouldn't have even blamed Jackson at all if he was trying to defend his own life or even someone else's.

However as is coming out, what I've been hearing for awhile now seems to be true. That Jackson did not just fire the gun in the air after being struck by the car.

Here is the damning part about this entire episode for Jackson with me. He went to his car to retrieve his gun. I'll say that again so it sinks in, he went to his car to retrieve his gun.

Here let me let Brizzi say it for you again.

"After the fight started, (Jackson) went to his car, retrieved his handgun and put it on his hip," Brizzi said. "He walked over to where a handicapped person was on the ground getting stomped and beaten, kicked that person, then drew his gun and fired one to three shots into the air."

Why is this so important? Because if as Jackson & crew were saying that all they were trying to do was get away then right there & then all he had to have done would have been to put the key in the ignition & drive away or at the very least use the cell phone I know he has in his car or on him to call 911 from the relative safety of his vehicle.

But no, he had to make sure that during a fight he had to go retrive a deadly weapon. I guess for everyones sake we should just be glad there was no dustpan around for Jamaal to grab or it really would have gone downhill.

I'm sorry guys but at this point in time getting your gun & flashing it no longer counts as self defense.

I haven't even began to talk about hitting a man while he was on the ground, which the other sad irony here is that Jermaine O'Neal is in court in MI right now for the same thing.

Snap, Daniels & even Tinsley get a break here because other than the weed in J.T.'s car it doesn't appear that any of them did anything other than be there.

Jackson has even admitted to changing his story, that's a polite way of saying "I lied" btw.

Like I said it sickens me to no end to even have to talk about this on the first night of the pre-seasaon. A season that looked so very hopefull for me.

Heck I even had made the commitment that I was going to give everybody on the team a fresh chance (including Jackson & Tinsley). But that has all changed now.

I know Jax will be back, there is just no way the Pacers are going to be able to trade the guy, so unless there is some way to void his contract I can't see how he will be gone anytime soon. Unless the Pacers give him a paid vacation, which they did for this game last night because he was not on the bench.

It's just sad, that's all I am going to say about that in this post.

Ok, let's move on.

As usual I couldn't get to the game on time, this time we were really late & I missed the entire first quarter. So I never even got to see Daniels play so somebody fill me in on him.

A quick question, with the new restraunt Legends on the one end does that mean that DJ Paul B is gone? Where he was set up is now two serving tables? I'm just curious.

Well the offense moved a little more smoothly but I want to see it work when J.O. is in there. I've seen it move well before without him but it seems to bog down whenever he entered the game. I'll watch that more closely this weekend.

On a team note though there were some very interesting things that happened in the 3rd & 4th quarters.

First we went big, I mean real big.

Orien Green at p.g. Danny Granger at the S.G. Shawne Williams at the s.f. Maceo Baston at the P.F. & David Harrison at the C.

That is a huge lineup. Just for those of you that didn't see it, it did work as well. When they brought in Marshall for Harrison & played Baston at C it worked even more but going big was a nice change considering what we've seen for years.

Secondly, this team is more physical than teams we've had in recent years. Powell, Harrington, Baston, Harrison & even to a degree Williams all body up on defense in the paint area.

Thirdly we ARE more athletic than I can remember us being. In fact I think this may be the most athletic lineup I've ever seen on the team.

Fourth if you are concerned about defense, I'm not sure your barking up the right tree yet. Like I said, first game of pre-season so this may change & they certianly were not playing against Kidd & Carter but they did apply the pressure (including a full court press).

Now let's look at some of the individual games.

I think because people have been so badly burned by Jon Bender that they automatically started downplaying Shawne Williams. Making sure to point out that his game is not developed etc., etc..

Well I'm here to tell you now that I think Williams is going to suprise people. I'm not saying he is going to be a R.O.Y. candidate or anything like that. But I think he will be a solid contributer on our team before the season is over.

Also as Danny Granger to me is the prototypical small forward, Shawne looks like he will be a true power forward. He is much thicker & more muscular than what I had been led to believe. Also, while I'm not trying to pick on Bender I can't help but want to end any comparrisons. Watching Williams on the floor for five min. showed me that he is already more developed as a player than Jon was for about 3 years into his career.

Josh Powell is everything I like in a player. He's tough, he doesn't shy from contact, he is a physical rebounder & he plays solid defense. As far as I'm concerned he not only needs to make the team but he makes me think that somebody else is expendable. Two big thumbs up for the one game I've seen him play so far.

Maceo Baston had me on my feet with that missed dunk he had. Good lord that would have been huge had he got that one to go down. I guess this isn't the same old Baston that I remember years ago, this guy has game. He also played much more physical in the post than I ever thought he would.

Danny got into foul trouble but in the second half whenever he had the ball he could just get his shot off anytime anywhere which is saying something cause a lot of times he was going against Jefferson. He played some at the two guard which I didn't like but going that big did help us so if that's the plan I can live with it.

Harrison definately has lost any of the fat that was holding him down. He was very active as a shot blocker, which he always has been. His offense did not seem as smooth as normal but again it's just game one of the pre-season. He still made to many faces & had something to say whenever the refs would call something on him so I just don't know how that is going to go over this season with the fans. Also he got called for a delay of game warning for his shirt being out. They gave him two warnings for this prior to giving him the warning btw.

Saras was a mixed bag of nuts, actually our entire p.g. staff was this way for the part of the game I saw. On the one hand his passing in the open court is as good as anybody out there & his abiltiy to hit players close to the basket is outstanding. On the other hand his shooting & ball handling looked worse than last season if you can beleive that. Again though just one game into the pre-season.

Jamaal must have had a really good first quarter because what I saw in the second half was less than lackluster. Again though just first game in the pre-season so no real judgements to be passed here.

Greene is a defensive minded p.g. that is for sure & his passing while not spectacular is at least proficiant. If the choice is between him & Snap, based on last nights game anyway I'd say Greene should stay.

Marshall at first left me with no impression but as the night went on the better he go & in the 4th quarter he was a big part of the reason we took the lead & took off with it. Very skinny guy btw. Decent shot & he does apply some pressure on defense although I don't think anyone will confuse him for Artest any time soon. Oh wait that is reason enough right there to keep him.;)

And now for no reason it's peanut butter jelly time!!!!!


http://static.flickr.com/33/65389567_9737b2a6b0_o.jpg

With a dash of fruit.

:mango: :pineapple :apple: :dorange:

Ok where was I??

Oh yea James White.

Hmmm....some nice on the ball defense but overall it was kind of a nothing first outing. However again, first outing being the key here.

What was the one big change though that I saw in this entire group that I haven't seen is awhile?

Everybody was hitting the boards & hitting them hard. When we had that big lineup in there I think we collected about 80% of the rebounds. No, I don't know that for fact but that's what it felt like.

Chuck Person was very very very vocal & active on the sidelines last night. Much more so than last season.

I'll quit now.

Other than the one down side that we all know about I think this up coming season looks pretty good.

What the hell is wrong with me????

I forgot to talk about Al.

Well first off the Mohawk was a nice gimmick but it has got to go. Other than taking a few stupid shots & his horrid display of freethrow shooting Al was great.

At one time the Diamond one remarked that he looked somewhat Barklyesque out there when he grabbed a board & ran it past half court & dished for an assist.

Whenever he & Powell were in there together, which actually was a very short time, they were putting the hurt on the N.J. big men. While they lack some height, both of these guys play very physical.

It was fun to have him back & I only wish I could have heard the opening cheers for him.

Los Angeles
10-12-2006, 04:36 AM
It's official - the season has begun!

:king:

Thanks for a great re-cap. I'll have to return to it tomorrow when my head is clearer and add a few thoughts.

Eindar
10-12-2006, 04:45 AM
Good post Peck. I'm really looking forward to watching the new style.

indygeezer
10-12-2006, 06:58 AM
Everybody was hitting the boards & hitting them hard. When we had that big lineup in there I think we collected about 80% of the rebounds. No, I don't know that for fact but that's what it felt like.



I think I'm gonna cry now. :( Outta joy that is. I didn't get to see the game but that is Heaven's Harps sounding off to me.

Now, if they can just learn to shoot free throws.
Games are always fairly even in all other aspects but free-throws and rebounds win 90% of em for you.

Nice to have these reports back Peck. Thanks

Will Galen
10-12-2006, 07:13 AM
I'd almost pay money to read your game recaps Peck. ALMOST! (grin) This one was outstanding!

Your take on the Jackson situation is pretty much my take. One note, I don't much like this forum when controversial things happen. Posters rush to judgment without knowing all the facts and post ad infinitum on the subject. Nothing wrong with that because I simply stop reading those posts, but basketball posts take a back seat in those situations, and that I don't like!

All in all I still think this can be an outstanding season!

obnoxiousmodesty
10-12-2006, 07:51 AM
Thank you Peck. I'm going to depend upon reports like yours to keep me in the loop this season. Keep up the awesome work!

:gopacers:

Unclebuck
10-12-2006, 08:14 AM
Peck, I almost wished you would have started two threads, one about the incident and one about the game last night, because I don't want this thread to turn into a thread about the incident and aftermath. The only thing I want to say about the incident, is that DW said in his press conference yesterday that yes the players did break team rules when they were out at Club Rio


http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/walsh_bird_jackson_061011.html

Q. From what you know of the incident, were team rules violated and if not should stricter rules be put in place?

A. As far as team rules, yes, being out late in a nightclub at the hours they were in, that would've become an internal thing. If that's all that would've happened, we would've done something internally as far as fines or at the most a suspension. When you add this other stuff, no. We never anticipated anything like that. And that's more of a legal situation than what you would cover in team rules.


Peck, great re-cap of the game as always, but you forgot to mention one player, but that is OK, we know he'll be just fine.

This year's Pacers team will have to depend on their defense though as I don't see their halfcourt offense being that good, so it will be an up and down team because their outside shooting will be very inconsistant at best. But that is OK, because when the defense gets turned up this team will be fun to watch.

DisplacedKnick
10-12-2006, 08:27 AM
Well I might as well deal with the pink elephant in the room right up front.

Other than a few small snippets here & there I have kept pretty quiet about the entire Jackson incident. I guess now is as good a time as any to weigh in on the subject.

Like many of you I was stunned when I first heard the news, in fact I thought it was a joke. But much to my dismay I quickly learned that this was all to real.

As news bits started to leak out the forum started to quickly devide & as one of our nations founding fathers said "Passion began to govern & she never governs wisely".

To many people started to get to hung up on whatever their point of view was & quickly the lines were drawn. Ironicly if you notice the deviding lines were almost identical here as they were a year ago when we were dealing with Artest.


I didn't see the game (and probably won't see a Pacer game all year apparently) so I'll touch on this instead. It may deserve its own thread and if so someone can split this off.

I was actually pretty impressed with the general tone of PD over the past 5 days. Yes, some emotions ran high and there were disagreements but unless there were a ton of deleted posts I didn't see, it was actually pretty civil. There was a lot of potential for forum ugliness but for the most part that didn't happen.

There wasn't a lot of name calling, most threads were able to continue without being locked because it degenerated into useless crap, etc.

I'm sure a lot of people got sick and tired of going around, around and around with this but overall I'll tip my cap to the members of PD on this one.

Skaut_Ech
10-12-2006, 10:01 AM
Peck,

I've made no secret that I'm Maceo fan and I think his only problem has been, like guys like Chauney Billups, he needed a team to fit his skill set. You may remember that I said Maceo likes to play physical, despite his slenderness. Some people scoffed at me, saying he's more of a SF type. He played some C in Toronto. I'm hoping he gets to do that a bit while he's here. I know it's just one game, but he seems to carry more maturity than he has in the past. I liked what I saw from him.

Saras seemed a little frustrated with himself missing some of those wide open shots. My fear is that he's going to start overthinking things and take himself out of what he can do. I gotta say, some of his passes gave me shivers. His ball placement is pretty amazing, but then seing him get blown by on D a coupe of times really mitigated my job. I think his worth is going to hinge on him hitting the open three, otherwise, I can see him disappearing again really quick. I noticed they weren't having him set any picks or do much off the ball activity, other than hover around the three pount line. I don't like seeing that. They did that to him last year.

Overall, I was kinda impressed at how aggressive we were on both O and D. I've said this before and I'll say it again, I see us playing a style kinda like the Grizzles, but more assertive: Put guys in, tell them to play high energy, then when they start to slow down, substitute. I'm being really guarded about getting excited, casue like you, I want to see how things Mesh when JO is playing and we start feeding him.

I'm going to try an not overthink things. It's preseason, I still have issues with this team, but I'm going to give my brian a break and just enjoy that I got to see our guys play.

Jon Theodore
10-12-2006, 10:07 AM
spell check

Jermaniac
10-12-2006, 10:23 AM
FINALLY ITS BACK

Unclebuck
10-12-2006, 10:25 AM
FINALLY ITS BACK


Yes it is but everything isn't back, we didn't argue after the game last night, where were you.

ssmall
10-12-2006, 10:31 AM
Yes it is but everything isn't back, we didn't argue after the game last night, where were you.
its still preseason games, wait for the real deal im sure youll have plenty of chances to argue :)

BillS
10-12-2006, 10:48 AM
Peck, an excellent analysis as usual.

Re the Incident - I started out wanting to wait for the facts to come in because I truly felt the teams of the Old Days did their share of partying hard. As more facts come out I am less and less able to reconcile this. I now believe that for whatever reason, however this comes out, Jackson will have to go. It may not be fair, we may not be able to get anything more than a tomato with white mold on it for him, but as Kravitz says there are plenty of people who simply cannot embrace this team as long as Jackson is on it.

Yes, the world is coming to an end, I agree with both Peck and Kravitz in the same post...

Regarding the game, unfortunately I don't have a good enough handle on the players to be able to focus on off-the-ball action like I would want to (I still mentally spend time saying to myself, "Now, who has the ball ... had the ball ... is running back on defense..."). That being said, I very much noticed the up-tempo pace was working very well. A couple of comments:

1) To me, it seemed like we bogged down a bit when Tinsley was in the game. Since Rick was firmly esconced on the bench for most of the time, I can be pretty sure it wasn't because Tins' "free-flowing style" was being hampered by called plays. I'm not sure why this happened - rust, normal pre-season foibles, whatever - but it didn't seem to happen as much when SarJas was in the game.

2) I noticed real midrange jumpers being taken and made! I think it was Quin who commented at one point that getting partway to the basket and popping an easy jumper can be just as good as trying to get all the way in because it clears the floor and makes defenses more hesitant of just jamming the area under the rim. I want to say that was on a Granger fast break but I could be wrong.

3) I think the new attitude toward jawing at the refs is going to make a HUGE difference in the flow of the game and the focus of the players. I have absolutely no problem with players making faces or frustrated motions immediately after a call, it's human nature to be upset with either the refs or oneself. What I loved was seeing no instances AT ALL of someone hanging back to moan about a call while play continued.

4) The new rule about not spreading your arms at the edge of the lane during a free throw is really going to be interesting. Wonder where that came from?

5) 3-second calls? Wow, that's going to make Shaq feel picked on. Unless he gets superstarred for it, of course.

6) Free throws suffered in particular due to tired legs, I thought. Quin pointed out the flaw in Al's style, but I think it affected everyone as well. Should be interesting to see if this improves or gets worse as the season wears on.

I wish I could have paid attention more to the PnR and screen execution, but other than a feeling that it was a LOT better than last year I have no details.

BillS
10-12-2006, 10:54 AM
3) I think the new attitude toward jawing at the refs is going to make a HUGE difference in the flow of the game and the focus of the players. I have absolutely no problem with players making faces or frustrated motions immediately after a call, it's human nature to be upset with either the refs or oneself. What I loved was seeing no instances AT ALL of someone hanging back to moan about a call while play continued.

Yes I know it is a rule not a player attitude, I meant attitude on the part of the NBA.

Bball
10-12-2006, 11:15 AM
Are you saying Powell makes Foster expendable?

'Cuz I'll say that if you're not....

-Bball

Naptown_Seth
10-12-2006, 11:39 AM
I'm happy to say that I wrote a lot more words about Pacers basketball in the post-game thread than about Jackson.

After seeing them play, even thought it was pre-season, I felt like "who cares about Jackson". They don't need him to win games it appears. Not because they won the game but because of how they played the game.

They ran some very good sets, not just winging it, and most of the time they worked off each other well. Considering it was game 1 of the pre-season and Rick obviously was trying a little bit of everything to see what they had, I was surprised to see just how much of it looked very useable in regular games.

SarJas still has some issues, but he also can still pass the ball well. And he was probably my biggest concern coming out of the game.

Love the playbook, love the spacing, love the energy, love the player interaction. And one other thing, it seemed like with the younger guys that SarJas was able to be more of a leader and run/control that group better, a side-benefit from the injection of young talent.

imawhat
10-12-2006, 12:33 PM
And one other thing, it seemed like with the younger guys that SarJas was able to be more of a leader and run/control that group better, a side-benefit from the injection of young talent.


Interesting. That could be a very good role for him.

Kegboy
10-12-2006, 12:39 PM
Well, MagicRat ponied up so Grace and I went to the game with him.

My observations:
- Any time your basketball players are thinner than your dance squad, it's not a good thing. That's all I have to say about that.
- Peck applauded Chuck's coaching. I don't know. MagicRat had his moves down pat, and Grace commented that he was always pointing the opposite direction of what was happening. Maybe he's dyslexic.
- I was going to go down at halftime and yell at Larry for not drafting Marcus Williams, but then he ran away like a little girl. Well, he limped away like a little girl with a really bad back.
- Marcus just has great court vision. His shooting wasn't good, but he was effortlessly getting the ball exactly in the right place. He could have easily had double digit assists if New Jersey's scrubs could shoot. Plus, he sure didn't look out of shape to me.
- Speaking of which, I know Tinsley weight trained, but it seemed it took a lot of effort for him to make a cross court pass. Maybe his corset was causing problems.
- David looked really f'ing good.
- Al didn't look much different than the old Al. I don't think he passed once in the first quarter, and he did a good JO impression of celebrating after a basket. However, before Tim yells at me, I'm sure he was just playing how the coach wanted him to.
- Jeff's lost it, and I'm afraid he's never getting it back. His defense was pretty bad.
- Speaking of bad defense, Baston had some nice dunks, but my god, it's Mikki Moore! Man up already! For a good portion of the third quarter the only post defense we got was from Tinsley.
- Continuing that theme, Antoine Wright owned White. Just owned him. Got some points on Granger, too.
- I know he had some turnovers, but I thought Jay Williams looked pretty good. Looks like the curse of Anthony Johnson is over in NJ, Kidd's got a couple good looking backups. I think Frank's going to play Marcus and Kidd together quite a bit.
- I'm going to go ballistic if we don't keep Powell. If I squint I can pretend we got Melvin Ely having a bad year.
- Marshall was a ghost in the first half, but really lit things up in the second. He'll really need to keep it up, though. Btw, I'm going to pretend he's Chinese and refer to him as Marshall Rowle.
- Greene gave me the impression he's a selfish player on a couple plays. Armstrong looked good enough I might just keep Marshall over Oreo.
- I wasn't nearly impressed with the "new" offense as most of you. Our first fast break was the last play of the first half. They picked it up in the second, but Peck's right, let's see what happens when JO's in there.
- Also, not to rain on everybody's parade, but Frank was ****ing with us. He was just throwing guys out there to see what they could do. There were a couple times he took the gloves off and actually coached, and they'd go on a big run.
- Legends looks almost more ridiculous than I thought it'd be. Though it looks like it's not finished. Grace said that maybe Jack will finish it on work release. :rimshot:
- Lastly, I was surprised how judicious Rat is with his camera. He really picks his spots well.

[edit] Oh, I forgot Cabbage. I'm sure Rat'll post an audio recording of me cheering when he came in soon. He looks much better defending down the court, but he still guards the ball instead of his man too damn much. They never went at him, though.

He also needs to get it in his head that even when he's playing the "shooting guard" position, he's allowed to pass the ball. Every time he's passed the ball off the corner he shoots, even when he's in perfect creating postion for the post. Very fustrating.

Unclebuck
10-12-2006, 12:40 PM
1) To me, it seemed like we bogged down a bit when Tinsley was in the game. Since Rick was firmly esconced on the bench for most of the time, I can be pretty sure it wasn't because Tins' "free-flowing style" was being hampered by called plays. I'm not sure why this happened - rust, normal pre-season foibles, whatever - but it didn't seem to happen as much when SarJas was in the game.




I'll tell you why that is, and yes I noticed the same thing, Tinsley holds the ball too much, he dribbles it too much. When Saras, DA, Greene, Hunter or Marquis were playing point guard they moved the ball to teammates much quicker.

Now before Tinsley fans jump all over me, let me add this, part of the reason Tinsley holds the ball is because he's able to handle and he's able to make the scoring pass for his teammates, but he does hold the ball more than the other point guards.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, it is just different.

I am concerned that if and when we have a lineup of Tinsley, jax, Granger, Al and JO, the ball won't move nearly as much as when the bench players come in. Because of the 5 starters 4 of them have a history of holding the ball and trying to go on their own too much.

The starters will play a very different type of offense then the reserves of Saras, Marquis, Foster, Harrison and Baston

Shade
10-12-2006, 12:53 PM
I pretty much agree with Peck's assessment. I wish I had gotten to see more of Daniels, and Maceo couldn't stop Mikey Moore inside, but otherwise the team looked good. And even more important, they were fun to watch. Who needs shooters when you can dominate in the paint?

Also, it was nice to see that nobody looked completely lost out there. White got juked a couple times, but the dunk he threw down early made up for that. ;)

An excellent first showing, but there's a looooot more basketball to be played.

ABADays
10-12-2006, 01:00 PM
You guys may never understand what the game threads, the post game threads and Peck's usual do for me over here.

imawhat
10-12-2006, 01:11 PM
I can't fully understand, but I can relate since I'm away from my team.

Thanks to everyone for the updates! I highly appreciate them.

indygeezer
10-12-2006, 01:17 PM
Well, MagicRat ponied up so Grace and I went to the game with him.

My observations:
- Any time your basketball players are thinner than your dance squad, it's not a good thing. That's all I have to say about that.
- Peck applauded Chuck's coaching. I don't know. MagicRat had his moves down pat, and Grace commented that he was always pointing the opposite direction of what was happening. Maybe he's dyslexic.
- I was going to go down at halftime and yell at Larry for not drafting Marcus Williams, but then he ran away like a little girl. Well, he limped away like a little girl with a really bad back.
- Marcus just has great court vision. His shooting wasn't good, but he was effortlessly getting the ball exactly in the right place. He could have easily had double digit assists if New Jersey's scrubs could shoot. Plus, he sure didn't look out of shape to me.
- Speaking of which, I know Tinsley weight trained, but it seemed it took a lot of effort for him to make a cross court pass. Maybe his corset was causing problems.
- David looked really f'ing good.
- Al didn't look much different than the old Al. I don't think he passed once in the first quarter, and he did a good JO impression of celebrating after a basket. However, before Tim yells at me, I'm sure he was just playing how the coach wanted him to.
- Jeff's lost it, and I'm afraid he's never getting it back. His defense was pretty bad.
- Speaking of bad defense, Baston had some nice dunks, but my god, it's Mikki Moore! Man up already! For a good portion of the third quarter the only post defense we got was from Tinsley.
- Continuing that theme, Antoine Wright owned White. Just owned him. Got some points on Granger, too.
- I know he had some turnovers, but I thought Jay Williams looked pretty good. Looks like the curse of Anthony Johnson is over in NJ, Kidd's got a couple good looking backups. I think Frank's going to play Marcus and Kidd together quite a bit.
- I'm going to go ballistic if we don't keep Powell. If I squint I can pretend we got Melvin Ely having a bad year.
- Marshall was a ghost in the first half, but really lit things up in the second. He'll really need to keep it up, though. Btw, I'm going to pretend he's Chinese and refer to him as Marshall Rowle.
- Greene gave me the impression he's a selfish player on a couple plays. Armstrong looked good enough I might just keep Marshall over Oreo.
- I wasn't nearly impressed with the "new" offense as most of you. Our first fast break was the last play of the first half. They picked it up in the second, but Peck's right, let's see what happens when JO's in there.
- Also, not to rain on everybody's parade, but Frank was ****ing with us. He was just throwing guys out there to see what they could do. There were a couple times he took the gloves off and actually coached, and they'd go on a big run.
- Legends looks almost more ridiculous than I thought it'd be. Though it looks like it's not finished. Grace said that maybe Jack will finish it on work release. :rimshot:
- Lastly, I was surprised how judicious Rat is with his camera. He really picks his spots well.

[edit] Oh, I forgot Cabbage. I'm sure Rat'll post an audio recording of me cheering when he came in soon. He looks much better defending down the court, but he still guards the ball instead of his man too damn much. They never went at him, though.

He also needs to get it in his head that even when he's playing the "shooting guard" position, he's allowed to pass the ball. Every time he's passed the ball off the corner he shoots, even when he's in perfect creating postion for the post. Very fustrating.




OK, who are you and what'dja do with IndyToad?????

Kegboy
10-12-2006, 01:34 PM
OK, who are you and what'dja do with IndyToad?????

Yep, a little surprised to see everyone's so rah-rah, even Peck. Oh well, guess I should just let them have their fun while it lasts.

Kegboy
Have it your way

Unclebuck
10-12-2006, 01:37 PM
Yep, a little surprised to see everyone's so rah-rah, even Peck. Oh well, guess I should just let them have their fun while it lasts.

Kegboy
Have it your way

Kegboy, I'm asking an honest question, weren't you a lot less negative and sarcastic 3 or 4 years ago, or even 2 years ago. Is my memory failing, but has your posting style changed. (Yes I know the past couple of seasons have been tough, but still)

RoboKegboy
10-12-2006, 02:05 PM
Kegboy, I'm asking an honest question, weren't you a lot less negative and sarcastic 3 or 4 years ago, or even 2 years ago. Is my memory failing, but has your posting style changed. (Yes I know the past couple of seasons have been tough, but still)

I've always been sarcastic, but I've been more negative since my fall to the darkside. :shrug:

MagicRat
10-12-2006, 02:06 PM
A few things:

I'm not sure what you guys want out of Jamaal in the first preseason game. He was efficient (7 assists-1 TO), pushed the ball up the court every time, got easy baskets when they were there and pulled it out and waited for Al to drag himself up the court when they weren't, and put good pressure on the ball the whole game.

I had to be judicious with the camera because I was concerned it was going to get covered with Kegboy's Marcus Williams drool and it's not waterproof.

They now have 4 spectator seats between the scorer's table and the team benches. I'm sure they like the extra money, but I'm concerned that it's going to hamper Slick's coaching during timeouts.

Jermaniac
10-12-2006, 02:12 PM
Yes it is but everything isn't back, we didn't argue after the game last night, where were you.Writing my mid term paper. College sucks.

Since86
10-12-2006, 02:13 PM
Could perhaps we get to see those priceless MR shots?:D

Unclebuck
10-12-2006, 02:15 PM
I didn't pay much attention to Tinsley, Foster, Granger, or Harrington, I know what to expect from those guys, I was concentrating on the new guys.

sweabs
10-12-2006, 02:22 PM
- Marcus just has great court vision. His shooting wasn't good, but he was effortlessly getting the ball exactly in the right place. He could have easily had double digit assists if New Jersey's scrubs could shoot. Plus, he sure didn't look out of shape to me.
Heck, it doesn't end there. Just wait until you get to see the other fantastic point guard we decided to pass on - Rajon Rondo. He's the guy I was hoping to death we'd take with our pick, but to no avail.

I got to watch him last night torch the Raptors, and let me just say that his game is perfectly suited for the NBA. He's lightning fast. And for the critics who want to complain about his outside shot - let's just say his buzzer beating 3 pointer to send the game into OT wasn't exactly a brick. He's also an exceptional defender - just really long and quick on his feet.

I'll stop complaining though - I did enough of that after draft night. But dang - passing up on 2 PG's like that...:cry:

Jermaniac
10-12-2006, 02:39 PM
I'm downloading the game as we speak, I cant wait to watch it.

CableKC
10-12-2006, 03:01 PM
I'm downloading the game as we speak, I cant wait to watch it.
How are you doing this?

On TIVO? or is it online somewhere?

Jermaniac
10-12-2006, 03:22 PM
I'm downloading the torrent, its on realgm I forgot the link I got it from. Its in the realgm game thread.

McKeyFan
10-12-2006, 03:51 PM
I've always been sarcastic, but I've been more negative since my fall to the darkside. :shrug:

What is the Robo thing?

McKeyFan
10-12-2006, 04:00 PM
I'll tell you why that is, and yes I noticed the same thing, Tinsley holds the ball too much, he dribbles it too much. When Saras, DA, Greene, Hunter or Marquis were playing point guard they moved the ball to teammates much quicker.

Now before Tinsley fans jump all over me, let me add this, part of the reason Tinsley holds the ball is because he's able to handle and he's able to make the scoring pass for his teammates, but he does hold the ball more than the other point guards.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, it is just different.



I still see the same thing I've seen for years. Tinsley makes great passes at times and makes nice offensive moves, but doesn't get the whole team involved -- just himself and the guy he makes the cool pass to. Doesn't make the pass that leads to the assist very often.

Sarunas is better at it. And, from what I observed, a better "team offense" was at play last night while he was at the point. (In fact, if its possible to do a plus minus for when Saras was at point, I think it was way up in the plus column.)

Nevertheless, Tins does look to be in good shape and did make some beautiful passes. But I prefer Saras despite his weaknesses. I consider him a net plus, and the plus minus stat usually backs that up.

Skaut_Ech
10-12-2006, 04:00 PM
I pretty much agree with Peck's assessment. I wish I had gotten to see more of Daniels, and Maceo couldn't stop Mikey Moore inside, but otherwise the team looked good.

Mikki Moore was on my very short list of big men players I wanted the Pacers to pick up. I think he's one of those solid, bench guys every team should have, like an Adrian Griffin, or Bo Outlaw or Eduardo Najera. Guys who won't be starters, but are self aware enough to play to their strengths and within themselves and the framework of the team.

Not to go off on too bad of a tangent, but can you guys believe the growth in skills of Nenad Krstic? I think he's going to be exciting to watch. Apparently, his coach has him working on shoting threes. Wacky.

Kegboy
10-12-2006, 04:58 PM
I had to be judicious with the camera because I was concerned it was going to get covered with Kegboy's Marcus Williams drool and it's not waterproof.

Well, with the Pacemates going all :fatbanana: I needed something to drool over.

Kegboy
10-12-2006, 04:59 PM
Heck, it doesn't end there. Just wait until you get to see the other fantastic point guard we decided to pass on - Rajon Rondo. He's the guy I was hoping to death we'd take with our pick, but to no avail.

Hell, there were 6 PGs I would have taken.

Kegboy
10-12-2006, 05:06 PM
What is the Robo thing?

Besides it being satire on the RoboPoster craze, I created the account as a failsafe to make sure I'd win the last Best Kegboy poll, but I ended up not needing it. Instead of letting it go to waste, I use it as my Treo login so I can have avatars and sigs turned off on it without messing up my regular account.

Plus, the whole Cylon thing is indicative of my fall to the darkside. :arrgh:

TRich
10-12-2006, 05:33 PM
How are you doing this?

On TIVO? or is it online somewhere?

http://bt.davka.info/

Robertmto
10-12-2006, 06:02 PM
Marcus Williams looked great. I can;t wait to see that kid on the floor with the real Nets.

Shawne Williams looked better than Flight IMO. Flight was basically killed by Antoine Wright.

If Harrison can stay out of foul trouble he will be a force in the post. But can he find enough minutes?

Baston made Moore look like Abdul Jabbar.

Maceo can dunk....thats about it.

If I was a Pacer fan I'd be begging for one of two things, DA winning the back up PG spot and/or Jax getting traded for a servicable PG.

CableKC
10-12-2006, 07:05 PM
http://bt.davka.info/

TRich and Jermaniac,

Tx....it didn't even dawn on me that the game would be downloadable.

Ahhh...the wonders of the Internet...you can get anything off of the Net. I'm waiting for the Video feed of SJax at Club Rio to be available on YouTube....:zip:

Jermaniac
10-12-2006, 07:48 PM
Marcus Williams looked great. I can;t wait to see that kid on the floor with the real Nets.

Shawne Williams looked better than Flight IMO. Flight was basically killed by Antoine Wright.

If Harrison can stay out of foul trouble he will be a force in the post. But can he find enough minutes?

Baston made Moore look like Abdul Jabbar.

Maceo can dunk....thats about it.

If I was a Pacer fan I'd be begging for one of two things, DA winning the back up PG spot and/or Jax getting traded for a servicable PG.

From what I seen last night Sarunas looked pretty good, why does DA need to win the back up PG spot?

Lord Helmet
10-12-2006, 08:04 PM
From what I seen last night Sarunas looked pretty good, why does DA need to win the back up PG spot?
Agreed, both he and Tins looked great.

Robertmto
10-12-2006, 11:40 PM
2 things. He looked indecisive alot and he might be the slowest guard in the nba.

and if Jax is gone he will prolly be played at the 2 more often.

Jermaniac
10-12-2006, 11:42 PM
2 things. He looked indecisive alot and he might be the slowest guard in the nba.

and if Jax is gone he will prolly be played at the 2 more often.We have James White,Marquise and if Jack is gone we will have Rawle playing the 2. Why do we need our back up PG playing the 2? Stop trying to hate on the Pacers just so you can make us feel bad about our team you look like a ****ing fool.

Jermaniac
10-12-2006, 11:56 PM
Just finished watching the game, couple of things from me.

-New offense is very good, quick decisions by our PG's, we dont give the defense any time to set up and that is very good. JO is going to have alot of dunks this year.

-Jamaal Tinsley was the best player in the game. Easy.
-Rawle Marshall also impressed me alot, with Marquise,White and Rawle. Stephen Jackson is not needed.
-Josh Powell should take all of Jeff Fosters minutes, he is already 2 times the player Foster ever was on offense, and the way he rebounds, we wont miss much of Foster other then offensive boards.
-James White looked pretty bad had alot of trouble with fouls. But he will be alright could be the nerves of a first NBA game.
-Shawne looked good, he will be a good NBA player.
-Sarunas ran the offense very well, but seriously Sarunas YOU NEED TO BRING THE DAMN JUMPER BACK, we need it. You are the only person on our team considered a jump shooter we need the jump shot from you. He was also better on team defense, he didnt get beat off the dribble at all the way I saw it.
-Like I thought when I first read his weight, Baston is going to have trouble playing defense in the post because he is so thin. But he will be good in this offense because he is so damn active.
-Orien sucked in the first half, in the second half he looked great. Very good on defense, gets his hands on balls.
-Jeff Foster he has been the same damn player the last 4-5 years of his career, this guy doesnt add **** to his game. Seriously how do you play in the NBA for like 7 years and not add a 15 foot jumper to your game.
-Danny looks bigger, great on defense, his was rusty on the jumpshot. But Danny will be fine.
-Al looked great, but Al let someone else touch the damn ball.

Thats what I thought, but thats just me.

Robertmto
10-13-2006, 01:19 AM
We have James White,Marquise and if Jack is gone we will have Rawle playing the 2. Why do we need our back up PG playing the 2? Stop trying to hate on the Pacers just so you can make us feel bad about our team you look like a ****ing fool.

Carisle is the guy in love with him playing the 2, not me. He even had him playin it last night.

Peck
10-13-2006, 01:46 AM
Just finished watching the game, couple of things from me.

-New offense is very good, quick decisions by our PG's, we dont give the defense any time to set up and that is very good. JO is going to have alot of dunks this year.

-Jamaal Tinsley was the best player in the game. Easy.
-Rawle Marshall also impressed me alot, with Marquise,White and Rawle. Stephen Jackson is not needed.
-Josh Powell should take all of Jeff Fosters minutes, he is already 2 times the player Foster ever was on offense, and the way he rebounds, we wont miss much of Foster other then offensive boards.
-James White looked pretty bad had alot of trouble with fouls. But he will be alright could be the nerves of a first NBA game.
-Shawne looked good, he will be a good NBA player.
-Sarunas ran the offense very well, but seriously Sarunas YOU NEED TO BRING THE DAMN JUMPER BACK, we need it. You are the only person on our team considered a jump shooter we need the jump shot from you. He was also better on team defense, he didnt get beat off the dribble at all the way I saw it.
-Like I thought when I first read his weight, Baston is going to have trouble playing defense in the post because he is so thin. But he will be good in this offense because he is so damn active.
-Orien sucked in the first half, in the second half he looked great. Very good on defense, gets his hands on balls.
-Jeff Foster he has been the same damn player the last 4-5 years of his career, this guy doesnt add **** to his game. Seriously how do you play in the NBA for like 7 years and not add a 15 foot jumper to your game.
-Danny looks bigger, great on defense, his was rusty on the jumpshot. But Danny will be fine.
-Al looked great, but Al let someone else touch the damn ball.

Thats what I thought, but thats just me.


Now I ask you this in all seriousness.

Do you worry at all though, even a little, that when J.O. is in the game that Rick will be tempted to go back to the slog ball we've all come to hate?

Also let me add "money" to your many names. Because you are on the money about Jeff Foster.

Hicks
10-13-2006, 06:55 AM
Jermaniac, I enjoyed your post. I hope you make this a regular addition to the odd thoughts threads. :thumbsup:

owl
10-13-2006, 07:33 AM
Good post Jermaniac. As far as Foser is concerned, if Powle and Williams
continue to produce like the first game I would not be disappinted
if Foster was part of a trade. Either by himself or with Jax. Take back
a player you would cut with an ending contract or 2 years left.

Unclebuck
10-13-2006, 09:10 AM
So we've decided that Powell and others are better than Foster based upon one preseason game. That is absurd, but this isn't about Foster, I'll get to him at another time (you know I will) but basing anything on one preseason game is ridiculous. Do you know how many players over the years look great in preseason and then never amount to anything. These are practice games.


For the record: a trade with Jax and Foster is highly unlikely because they make a combined 11.4 million

Jermaniac
10-13-2006, 10:12 AM
Now I ask you this in all seriousness.

Do you worry at all though, even a little, that when J.O. is in the game that Rick will be tempted to go back to the slog ball we've all come to hate?

I worry alot, because I know Rick. I'm scared that when Jermaine plays that Rick will go away from the high tempo offense and just force it to JO all the time.

Jermaniac
10-13-2006, 10:14 AM
So we've decided that Powell and others are better than Foster based upon one preseason game. That is absurd, but this isn't about Foster, I'll get to him at another time (you know I will) but basing anything on one preseason game is ridiculous. Do you know how many players over the years look great in preseason and then never amount to anything. These are practice games.


Foster doesnt even look good in preseason games.

Jermaniac
10-13-2006, 10:15 AM
Carisle is the guy in love with him playing the 2, not me. He even had him playin it last night.You happen to notice that Queez only played 4 minutes?

Bball
10-13-2006, 11:06 AM
So we've decided that Powell and others are better than Foster based upon one preseason game.


No, we didn't even need the preseason game for that. :devil:





For the record: a trade with Jax and Foster is highly unlikely because they make a comibined 11.4 million

Doesn't make the Pacers look very smart right now does it... :(

-Bball

sweabs
10-13-2006, 12:21 PM
http://bt.davka.info/
Dayum. Thanks for the link. Is it generally regarded as the best site for basketball torrents? Will it have every game by the time regular season hits?

Jermaniac
10-13-2006, 01:22 PM
They usually have every game on there.

Since86
10-13-2006, 02:39 PM
Can we get that added on to the toolbar up top, or atleast added to the links, media, and forums section?