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Trader Joe
10-11-2006, 11:31 PM
We have to make a trade. Our frontcourt is stacked. I don't see how everyone will get minutes.

JO, Al, and Danny are all gonna get big minutes. That leaves Baston, Foster, Harrison, Powell all on the bench. Not to mention Shawne Williams. I just think we need to make a deal to clear up a spot. Any ideas?

tinsley#11
10-11-2006, 11:36 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing us trade foster + filler to get a decent SG/PG

Unclebuck
10-11-2006, 11:37 PM
As much as I like Powell, he isn't going to get much time anyway, same with Shawne, so it isn'tt a problem

rwagner
10-11-2006, 11:42 PM
Yeah, a trade has got to happen. And probably will involve Foster unfortunately. But if it improves the team I'm all for it.

Trader Joe
10-11-2006, 11:46 PM
As much as I like Powell, he isn't going to get much time anyway, same with Shawne, so it isn'tt a problem

I think Powell is going to make us play him. He is an absolute beast. I like the Udonis Haslem comparison I saw somewhere on this board.

Unclebuck
10-11-2006, 11:47 PM
Don't overreact to one preseason game.

Trader Joe
10-11-2006, 11:56 PM
Don't overreact to one preseason game.

Am I overreacting? JO was raving about him at fanjam. He got into the frouncourt rotation before Baston today.

Los Angeles
10-11-2006, 11:57 PM
Don't overreact to one preseason game.

:ding:

Trader Joe
10-12-2006, 12:00 AM
:ding:
Ok I guess I am.

We can revisit this in 7 games.

Pacesetter
10-12-2006, 12:44 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing us trade foster + filler to get a decent SG/PG

Why Foster? Foster gives you 110% every time he's on the court and makes JO look great. He doesn't have set plays ran for him typically, and mostly gains his points from putbacks off the offensive glass. Not only that but he's one of the OG Pacers. He's got the historical background here and continues to improve his game. His value on the market isn't worth what he brings to our team, especially at this moment when people are calling for Pacers' heads on platters, knowing Foster is still on the team is a bright spot in an otherwise "black cloud" for some folks!

Speed
10-12-2006, 08:35 AM
Why Foster? Foster gives you 110% every time he's on the court and makes JO look great. He doesn't have set plays ran for him typically, and mostly gains his points from putbacks off the offensive glass. Not only that but he's one of the OG Pacers. He's got the historical background here and continues to improve his game. His value on the market isn't worth what he brings to our team, especially at this moment when people are calling for Pacers' heads on platters, knowing Foster is still on the team is a bright spot in an otherwise "black cloud" for some folks!

I'm not advocating anything, yet, at all.

BUT the reason to trade Foster is when you watch him on the offensive end he allows the defense to not guard him outside of 5 feet, at all. He won't even look at the guy with the ball taht far away because he doesn't want it, so his man sits in the lane and completely disrupts anything you're trying to do going to the basket.

Also, with his style of play based on athleticism and hustle and his age he will start to be less effective in the next couple of years.

I'm not saying anything, but seeing Powell who can hit a 17 footer really makes a difference.

But it's so early, and Jeff is one of the best offensive rebounders in the league.

Unclebuck
10-12-2006, 08:51 AM
Trading Foster at this time would be a huge mistake and just so you don't think my bias in favor of Jeff is clouding my opinion, trading Harrison would be a huge mistake also. We need both of them.

Do you know how many NBA players have looked good in preseason and then look terrible in the regular season. It happens every year on almost every team. That is not to say that Powell will disappear and will never be heard from again, but we have to wait a see.

Two things about preseason: the veterans play very little, but most of all they play at about 75% of what they do in the regular season and about 50% at what they do at playoff time, while young players like Powell are playing at 100% so you get a warped sense of reality.

DisplacedKnick
10-12-2006, 09:19 AM
Depends on what you can get for Foster. I'm with Speed on this: Generally "hustle" players start losing their effectiveness around age 30. You've probably seen the best Foster has to offer. Not saying he'll necessarily fall off the cliff this year but within a couple I'd say he'll start dropping off.

If you can get a good shooter and maybe a pick, I'd move him.

This season isn't about this season anyway. You should be decent and you have some nice pieces to build around - but one of those things you need to add is a shooter (or 3). Be nice to get a physical post defender but from what everyone's saying, maybe Powell's that guy.

Trading Foster may lose you a few W's this year but he is a player you need to look at as a tradable asset to shore up some weaknesses.

Unclebuck
10-12-2006, 09:33 AM
Generally "hustle" players start losing their effectiveness around age 30. You've probably seen the best Foster has to offer. Not saying he'll necessarily fall off the cliff this year but within a couple I'd say he'll start dropping off.




Logically that seems like it would be true. But I'm not sure history shows that to be the case. Or at least it is inconclusive. (Keep in mind this is the first summer in the last three that Jeff was able to work out)

We need to make a list of hustle players and see if they fell off at age 30

Dennis Rodman certainly didn't. But in some ways he's a freak of nature

DisplacedKnick
10-12-2006, 10:34 AM
Logically that seems like it would be true. But I'm not sure history shows that to be the case. Or at least it is inconclusive. (Keep in mind this is the first summer in the last three that Jeff was able to work out)

We need to make a list of hustle players and see if they fell off at age 30

Dennis Rodman certainly didn't. But in some ways he's a freak of nature

Based on stats, here are the big drop-off years for some notable hustle players I can think of:

JYD - 31
Pollard - 27
Rambis - 32
Bo Outlaw - 30 or 33 (depends if you want to go by minutes/game)

We're talking big guys here - you're little & don't hustle in the NBA, you're playing in the playground. Basically, if your number one attribute in the NBA is the ability to run around, dive for loose balls, scramble for boards, you can't substitute experience for the step or 2 you lose past 30 - it just doesn't happen.

Jeff will be 30 next January.

I'm sure there's probably an exception out there but unlike, say, a PJ Brown or Kevin Willis, you don't find these type of guys maintaining their game impact later in their careers.

BTW - IMO Rodman wasn't a hustle player - he hustled but he was hugely talented, the best player in history at fouling and not being called, as good as anyone in history at positioning, etc.