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View Full Version : Why I'm upset with TPTB



imawhat
10-11-2006, 03:38 PM
A lot of attention has been focused on Stephen Jackson, and for good reason, but to be honest, I'm more upset with Pacers management over everything that's happened.

Why?

Because I wasn't expecting betrayal and backtracking from them. And now that this has turned into a public relations nightmare, I'm even more upset.



Everyone has heard the comments from Larry, Donnie, and Rick since the end of last season. They've promised more discipline. They've talked about taking charge. They got in front of television cameras and made a promise to the community to do the right things on and off the court.



Fast forward to Friday. No comment from management. Ads are pulled on television stations and websites.

Saturday. No comment.

Sunday. Management acknowledges, after leaving fans in suspense for 48 hours, that a player makes a lapse in judgement. Yet no punishment is offered.

Monday. Jackson is allowed to return to the practice court on Sunday for non-contact drills, and comes back again on Monday.

Tuesday. Jackson practices, and is allowed to address the media. Then Larry offers reason as to why they've been silent. "As an organization we can't have a lot of comments about what happened because we don't know what happened," Bird said. "We don't know the full story."

Media and city responds. Stephen is projected to play in Saturday's game. Even Kravitz writes an article urging us to move on.


Wednesday. Police report becomes public, Jackson admits to kicking a disabled man, is involved in fight (not avoiding), and flashes gun well before shooting it. Now he's being charged and is getting arrested.


Why do I have a problem with this? Because management allowed Jackson to come back to practice, after admittingly not knowing the full story. After no punishment. After allowing other players to publicly support him.

And on top of that, they allowed Jackson to address the media. And now a lot of us are feeling really stupid.



To me, the biggest offense has come from our trusty management team. They have not only repeatedly backfired on their word, but they allowed for this situation to get much messier than it should have, and they've taken the team and city's reputation to the guillotine. Now there's little they can do, and nothing will likely be satisfactory.

Unclebuck
10-11-2006, 03:41 PM
So, what should TPTB have done to keep Jax from getting into the situation he is now in.

Young
10-11-2006, 03:43 PM
I couldn't agree with you more. I've almost gotten more and more upset with Bird and Rick than I have at Jackson. I expect Jackson to be a screw up.

God, I think that in the workforce I will value character more than anyone. After all of this ****.

Unclebuck
10-11-2006, 03:45 PM
I couldn't agree with you more. I've almost gotten more and more upset with Bird and Rick than I have at Jackson. I expect Jackson to be a screw up.

God, I think that in the workforce I will value character more than anyone. After all of this ****.

OK, I'll ask again, what could they and should they have done. Put him on house arrest

Since86
10-11-2006, 03:46 PM
So, what should TPTB have done to keep Jax from getting into the situation he is now in.

Well according to Reggie, they need to tell Rick to have harder practices.

Or, they could move practice and have it from 11pm til 2am. That way, they'd know exactly what grown men were doing after midnight.

vapacersfan
10-11-2006, 03:59 PM
I still have not changed my opinion from the other day. It is not TPTB responsibility to babysit our players, who in case anyone has forgotten are grown men.



Why, because he isnít rushing to make a quick, emotion filled response?

Funny, I donít see DW doing that either. You want to know why? Because they are professionals.

It's our jobs as fans to get all emotional and analyze, and counter analyze what the players were doing and why they were doing it.

It is there job, as CEO and President, to wait for all of the facts to arrive before making a statement, and even then there is not much they can say.

The Pacers have already said they are disappointed with the decision the players made, what else do you want them to say? That Jack is a thug and that he brought this franchise down. IF you are expecting that, then you are going to be disappointed for a long time to come, and it wonít be just because of Larry Bird.

Skaut_Ech
10-11-2006, 04:03 PM
UB,

I think he's talking about how TPTB handled things in terms of letting the fans/media know what's going on and how they should have immediately responded. In a lot of high profile professions, the questioanble parties are given a leave of absence pending some facts coming forth: Schollteacher suspected of something, put on leave, Cop suspected of bad shoot, taken off the street, etc.

I'm thinking that after all the tough talk last season, imawhat thinks Jackson should have been at least suspended from being around the team till things sort themselves out a bit.

I agree with him.

You know something was awry. You know guns, alcohol and weed were involved. What happened to the old conduct detrimental to the team clause? Matter of fact, given our swollen roster and it being pre-season, now would have been the PERFECT time to send a message to the fans and team by suspending everyopne there till some solid facts come in.

Instead, the team is allowed to talk to the media, along with Jackson, and give their opinions, etc. Management does a lot of "Um...ah....er...."

And we have a perfect show of talking the talk but not walking the walk.

Unclebuck
10-11-2006, 04:11 PM
UB,

I think he's talking about how TPTB handled things in terms of letting the fans/media know what's going on and how they should have immediately responded. In a lot of high profile professions, the questioanble parties are given a leave of absence pending some facts coming forth: Schollteacher suspected of something, put on leave, Cop suspected of bad shoot, taken off the street, etc.

I'm thinking that after all the tough talk last season, imawhat thinks Jackson should have been at least suspended from being around the team till things sort themselves out a bit.

I agree with him.

You know something was awry. You know guns, alcohol and weed were involved. What happened to the old conduct detrimental to the team clause? Matter of fact, given our swollen roster and it being pre-season, now would have been the PERFECT time to send a message to the fans and team by suspending everyopne there till some solid facts come in.

Instead, the team is allowed to talk to the media, along with Jackson, and give their opinions, etc. Management does a lot of "Um...ah....er...."

And we have a perfect show of talking the talk but not walking the walk.

OK, I'm sorry I misunderstood.

naptown
10-11-2006, 04:24 PM
The Pacers are BOUND by the COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT with the players union. They have procedures they HAVE to follow. Did you see LA management admonishing Kobe and getting into all of that? No. Why? Because they have procedures they HAVE TO FOLLOW.

It aint as simple as many of you want to make it out to be. Did the Pacers come out and say they aint happy about this? Yes. Did they say they are disappointed? Yes. They said what they legally could up to this point.

Morally we want them to come out rip these guys apart. And I am sure they want to. Legally they cant.

ChicagoJ
10-11-2006, 04:29 PM
Morally we want them to come out rip these guys apart. And I am sure they want to. Legally they cant.

That's probably true. But if they can keep Ron away just because he asked for a trade, then they can keep SJax away, too.

They DO have to pay him, that's where the CBA comes into play.

But they can ask him to stay home, with pay, until this is resolved.

SycamoreKen
10-11-2006, 04:48 PM
Maybe they believed Jackson's side of the story and thought that it was going to go away.

Skaut_Ech
10-11-2006, 04:52 PM
That's probably true. But if they can keep Ron away just because he asked for a trade, then they can keep SJax away, too.

They DO have to pay him, that's where the CBA comes into play.

But they can ask him to stay home, with pay, until this is resolved.

Yup!! They have to pay them, they don't have to play them.

DisplacedKnick
10-11-2006, 05:05 PM
There's some minor detail stuff they might have handled differently but TPTB have been just as screwed by this - if not more - than the fans.

They really tried to re-establish trust in the team and Jackson dumped all over that - you know, from the way he was talking before this went down, that management had a long, hard talk with him during the offseason.

Lord Helmet
10-11-2006, 05:16 PM
This is why they should have moved the guy.

Yet another year look at what we're talking about instead of basketball.

I'm fed up.

imawhat
10-11-2006, 08:31 PM
So, what should TPTB have done to keep Jax from getting into the situation he is now in.


They can't do anything to prevent incidents. I'm upset with how they've handled it.


More importantly, I'm upset that they haven't stood up to their words. Shape up or get out. But even after that, they've given the players and media a chance to look stupid by publicly supporting Stephen prior to "knowing all the facts", and that's something that could've been avoided by management intervention.

imawhat
10-11-2006, 08:36 PM
Even if they believe his side, the damage this incident has done towards the Pacers/city relationship is almost irrepairable. That alone is grounds for conduct detrimental to the team. Maybe that wasn't enough, I don't know.

imawhat
10-11-2006, 08:39 PM
I still have not changed my opinion from the other day. It is not TPTB responsibility to babysit our players, who in case anyone has forgotten are grown men.


It isn't their responsibility by any mean, but they're not free from responsibility. They shipped out their 'character' players and keep the questionable ones. In the locker-room, those guys may've caused trouble, but as citizens they haven't. They said they were going to do away with the nonsense, and went out and made questionable moves.

PacerMan
10-11-2006, 09:36 PM
You forgot: Fired the gun BEFORE being hit by the car.


A lot of attention has been focused on Stephen Jackson, and for good reason, but to be honest, I'm more upset with Pacers management over everything that's happened.

Why?

Because I wasn't expecting betrayal and backtracking from them. And now that this has turned into a public relations nightmare, I'm even more upset.



Everyone has heard the comments from Larry, Donnie, and Rick since the end of last season. They've promised more discipline. They've talked about taking charge. They got in front of television cameras and made a promise to the community to do the right things on and off the court.



Fast forward to Friday. No comment from management. Ads are pulled on television stations and websites.

Saturday. No comment.

Sunday. Management acknowledges, after leaving fans in suspense for 48 hours, that a player makes a lapse in judgement. Yet no punishment is offered.

Monday. Jackson is allowed to return to the practice court on Sunday for non-contact drills, and comes back again on Monday.

Tuesday. Jackson practices, and is allowed to address the media. Then Larry offers reason as to why they've been silent. "As an organization we can't have a lot of comments about what happened because we don't know what happened," Bird said. "We don't know the full story."

Media and city responds. Stephen is projected to play in Saturday's game. Even Kravitz writes an article urging us to move on.


Wednesday. Police report becomes public, Jackson admits to kicking a disabled man, is involved in fight (not avoiding), and flashes gun well before shooting it. Now he's being charged and is getting arrested.


Why do I have a problem with this? Because management allowed Jackson to come back to practice, after admittingly not knowing the full story. After no punishment. After allowing other players to publicly support him.

And on top of that, they allowed Jackson to address the media. And now a lot of us are feeling really stupid.



To me, the biggest offense has come from our trusty management team. They have not only repeatedly backfired on their word, but they allowed for this situation to get much messier than it should have, and they've taken the team and city's reputation to the guillotine. Now there's little they can do, and nothing will likely be satisfactory.

PacerMan
10-11-2006, 09:38 PM
You forgot: Fired the gun BEFORE being hit by the car.


A lot of attention has been focused on Stephen Jackson, and for good reason, but to be honest, I'm more upset with Pacers management over everything that's happened.

Why?

Because I wasn't expecting betrayal and backtracking from them. And now that this has turned into a public relations nightmare, I'm even more upset.



Everyone has heard the comments from Larry, Donnie, and Rick since the end of last season. They've promised more discipline. They've talked about taking charge. They got in front of television cameras and made a promise to the community to do the right things on and off the court.



Fast forward to Friday. No comment from management. Ads are pulled on television stations and websites.

Saturday. No comment.

Sunday. Management acknowledges, after leaving fans in suspense for 48 hours, that a player makes a lapse in judgement. Yet no punishment is offered.

Monday. Jackson is allowed to return to the practice court on Sunday for non-contact drills, and comes back again on Monday.

Tuesday. Jackson practices, and is allowed to address the media. Then Larry offers reason as to why they've been silent. "As an organization we can't have a lot of comments about what happened because we don't know what happened," Bird said. "We don't know the full story."

Media and city responds. Stephen is projected to play in Saturday's game. Even Kravitz writes an article urging us to move on.


Wednesday. Police report becomes public, Jackson admits to kicking a disabled man, is involved in fight (not avoiding), and flashes gun well before shooting it. Now he's being charged and is getting arrested.


Why do I have a problem with this? Because management allowed Jackson to come back to practice, after admittingly not knowing the full story. After no punishment. After allowing other players to publicly support him.

And on top of that, they allowed Jackson to address the media. And now a lot of us are feeling really stupid.



To me, the biggest offense has come from our trusty management team. They have not only repeatedly backfired on their word, but they allowed for this situation to get much messier than it should have, and they've taken the team and city's reputation to the guillotine. Now there's little they can do, and nothing will likely be satisfactory.

They should both be shown the door. Immediately. Simply disgraceful NON action. To admit in public that they haven't even spoken with the players personally!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????? Just boggles the mind.
COmplete and total incompetence.

PacerMan
10-11-2006, 09:44 PM
OK, I'll ask again, what could they and should they have done. Put him on house arrest

Ok, lets start with something so basic and simple that a volunteer organization would grasp it.
YOU TALK TO THE PLAYER AND ASK HIM WHAT HAPPENED.
Then you go from there.
They aren't capable of THAT!@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

PacerMan
10-11-2006, 09:48 PM
Maybe they believed Jackson's side of the story and thought that it was going to go away.

First they'd have had to ASK him what his side of the story was.

Dr. Goldfoot
10-11-2006, 11:58 PM
I agree with the premise. I think management has done a poor job of nipping problems in the bud. They allowed Artest to go too far and it's starting to look like Jackson as well. Imagine the behind the scenes turmoil if this is the crap happening out in the public eye. Those closest to the situations ( ie; coaches,players and other Pacer staff & associates) have to see some sort of build up to what has transpired over the last few seasons. Why not eliminate these problems before they become public. Everyone knew Artest was a timebomb, but think of his trade value prior to the brawl. Everyone knows Jackson is a timebomb but compare his trade value last week to now. Not to mention the toll it takes on a team to go thru these situations and in the case of the Pacers multiple times.

imawhat
10-12-2006, 12:18 PM
You forgot: Fired the gun BEFORE being hit by the car.



They should both be shown the door. Immediately. Simply disgraceful NON action. To admit in public that they haven't even spoken with the players personally!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????? Just boggles the mind.
COmplete and total incompetence.


In my opinion it's something that should be held without comment until further notice, especially if you're admitting that you don't know the facts. Instead, they admitted to not knowing the facts, announced support and made Stephen out to be the victim, allowed Stephen to return to practice, allowed the players to publicly comment on the situation, and then allowed Stephen to address the media.

The Pacers are proving why you don't comment on something at all until the facts are gathered. Now everyone looks stupid.

imawhat
10-12-2006, 12:21 PM
Ok, lets start with something so basic and simple that a volunteer organization would grasp it.
YOU TALK TO THE PLAYER AND ASK HIM WHAT HAPPENED.
Then you go from there.
They aren't capable of THAT!@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

UB is talking about what they should've done before the incident happened, not after. If you read his post two posts above that one you'd get that.