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View Full Version : For the record - Part 2



ChicagoJ
10-07-2006, 10:52 AM
This time, you can only pick one.

Unclebuck
10-07-2006, 10:57 AM
It was an easy choice for me, the confluence of bad publicity . That is what bothers me.

D-BONE
10-07-2006, 11:02 AM
Confluence-Great Word! Making reading fun, Jay.

able
10-07-2006, 11:04 AM
I vote "non of the above"

grace
10-07-2006, 11:08 AM
I vote for "all this arguing makes us sound like we're on the RATS board."

ChicagoJ
10-07-2006, 11:09 AM
I vote "non of the above"

What did I leave out?

ChicagoJ
10-07-2006, 11:10 AM
I vote for "all this arguing makes us sound like we're on the RATS board."

Well, unfortunately, every few hours someone new shows up and starts the discussion all the way back at the beginning, forcing us to re-hash the whole argument. Sorry about that.

able
10-07-2006, 11:12 AM
What did I leave out?

1: I'm not bothered by this
2: I'm bothered by the reaction of TPTB
3: I'm bothered by the fan's reactions
4: I'm bothered by the press' presentaiton of "non-facts"

I can go on a while, but what I'm trying to say is that you started out with a perception leaving no room for others' perceptions or opinions.

ChicagoJ
10-07-2006, 11:18 AM
1: I'm not bothered by this
2: I'm bothered by the reaction of TPTB
3: I'm bothered by the fan's reactions
4: I'm bothered by the press' presentaiton of "non-facts"

I can go on a while, but what I'm trying to say is that you started out with a perception leaving no room for others' perceptions or opinions.

Added, thanks.

Hicks
10-07-2006, 11:41 AM
Added, thanks.

Added after I vote. :grumble:

SycamoreKen
10-07-2006, 11:52 AM
It was close between players lack of discipline - by that I mean not thinking ahead that having drugs in your car or going to certain places at certain times might lead to something bad, or confluence of bad pub.

ajbry
10-07-2006, 11:57 AM
Fans' reactions, by far.

diamonddave00
10-07-2006, 12:04 PM
My biggest problem is fan reaction. Stephen and the others were stupid to be out that late yes. They should have been out probably no later than 1 am with training camp in session.

But fans act as if Stephen provoked the whole thing - I'm sorry if I'm punched in the mouth hard enough to draw blood and then hit and thrown over a car in an obvious attempt to kill me;I'm going to grab anything I can in attempt to protect myself.

Its easy to say I'd not have grabbed a gun - but unless you are in the situation you don't know how you'd respond.

Yes- as I said Stephen and the others were in the wrong place at the wrong time. But they were in the end the victims here. One has the right to care and bare arms its in our Bill of Rights. My own father was murdered by a gun shot. I, myself do not own a gun , BUT i RESPECT THE RIGHTS OF OTHER TO HAVE A REGISTERED GUN IF THEY FEEL THE NEED TO PROTECT THEMSELVES IN THAT MANNER.

Instead of venting how Stephen and the others left a bad mark against the franchise. We should be glad no one was hurt seriously - or is HATED OF STEPHEN JACKSON SO GREAT SOME WISHED HE HAD BEEN KILLED BY THE CAR?

In the end Stephen was a victim and as such deserves a little slack for one.

JayRedd
10-07-2006, 12:18 PM
It was an easy choice for me, the confluence of bad publicity . That is what bothers me.

This is all that I really care about. I find it pretty amusing that three of the rotation players on my favorite team carry guns around with them, and Jax seemingly tucks his in his waist before heading into a strip club....but if that's how you roll, whatever.

As long as you're playing D and shooting 40%, I really could care less if these guys kick puppies, hate America's freedom or run a meth lab in their spare time. Just keep it out of the news, jackasses.

Los Angeles
10-07-2006, 01:43 PM
PR by a long shot.

Bad PR = lower revenue = less money allocated for talent.

Arcadian
10-07-2006, 02:42 PM
It bothered me much more when Jackson said he has to stop cussing out the coach.

Slick Pinkham
10-07-2006, 02:56 PM
I'm bothered by the general impression of fans everywhere that the Indiana Pacers and the Cincinnati Bengals are the "new Jail Blazers" and a haven for lowlife scum players who do stupid things.

And I can't really argue with them because stuff keeps happening so may they are right.

:shrug:

Trader Joe
10-07-2006, 03:06 PM
Fans reaction. Period.

BlueNGold
10-07-2006, 03:08 PM
The phrase "It was bad judgment" bothers me the most. I don't think RC is speaking his mind at all here. I don't like people to sugar coat and water things down....and I don't appreciate the company line.

I don't blame Jack as much, because he is simply being himself. He is what he is. I blame those who manage this organization above all else. They are the ones that have constructed this team and should have done their homework.

BlueNGold
10-07-2006, 03:10 PM
I'm bothered by the general impression of fans everywhere that the Indiana Pacers and the Cincinnati Bengals are the "new Jail Blazers" and a haven for lowlife scum players who do stupid things.

And I can't really argue with them because stuff keeps happening so may they are right.

:shrug:

It is sad, but we have now earned a reputation.

rexnom
10-07-2006, 03:29 PM
How about we just prove people wrong and whup some butt this season?

Moses
10-07-2006, 03:58 PM
Fans reactions are what bothered me the most by far. Also, the press displaying non-facts as actual facts also pissed me off.

Kegboy
10-07-2006, 05:48 PM
Again, the part that bothers me is our starting 2 got him by a car.

heywoode
10-07-2006, 06:28 PM
This is all that I really care about. I find it pretty amusing that three of the rotation players on my favorite team carry guns around with them, and Jax seemingly tucks his in his waist before heading into a strip club....but if that's how you roll, whatever.

As long as you're playing D and shooting 40%, I really could care less if these guys kick puppies, hate America's freedom or run a meth lab in their spare time. Just keep it out of the news, jackasses.

This really bothers me. I'm sorry JayRedd, but I can't understand the logic here. Just because it isn't in the news, doesn't mean, hypothetically, that the meth lab isn't running, etc...the other examples were a little silly, so I won't use them as examples...

I'm not saying the players have to be angels or churchgoers, hell, I don't go to church...BUT, if a meth lab was open, or other activities detrimental to society, I would feel an obligation to my society to do my part, do what is best for the community and help put a stop to it.

The bottom line is that these guys are representing a franchise that USED to have a sterling reputation for class. I still maintain that the players cannot be treated the same as you and I because of the unique situation they are in. Part of the reason they make millions of dollars to play a game is that MORE is expected of them. They are expected to help with charity (largely so that their celebrity and role model status will inspire others to give), do things positive for their community, and generally be ambassadors of their sport and their franchise. Some of these guys want to have it both ways. They want to make millions contributing very little concreteness to society, but they want to be anonymous, or be able to have their privacy and be able to act as they please. Well, when you ARE anonymous, and work at an ordinary Joe job, then you can enjoy the ability to do the things that the general public can usually get away with.

Being scrutinized by the media and thousands of strangers may suck, but it comes with the territory of making millions to play a game. They don't have a problem cashing a check for more than I will make in a lifetime for one season of BASKETBALL, they shouldn't have a problem earning it. They are mistaken, and everyone else is too, who think that their obligations end when they aren't in uniform or on the court. If that were the case, they would be paid a whole lot less.

Think about the economics of it. If someone could sell 18,000 seats at $10-$200 each for people to come and watch me sit at my desk and do my job, I would be be making millions too. Putting asses in the seats, and generating revenue is the ONLY reason the salaries and economics of any pro sports franchise are the way they are. When the paid employees stop putting asses in the seats, by either inability to perform, or by their actions on or off the court, there is (and rightfully should be) a problem.

I just cannot understand people who have the mentality that if they are producing on the court, they can do whatever they want to do. I'm sorry for picking on you JayRedd, I don't mean to single you out. It just seemed that your post was the amalgamation of the general attitude of people defending the players' rights to do whatever the hell they please. They don't have that right. They gave it up when they signed a contract. Just like Ben the motorcyclist/quarterback found out, or Jay Williams found out.

Why can't they ride motorcycles??!!! They aren't illegal....Any OTHER person can ride one....THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!

BULLCRAP!

They have an obligation to be physically able to perform for the outrageous salary they are paid. They have an obligation to be people that fans (PAYING CUSTOMERS) want to come and see.

When the Pacers spent the whole summer wooing back fans, that should tell you something. The people that understand the economics of it all know what has to be done. They spent all summer doing it. Unfortunately, the bonehead spoiled millionaires who want to have their cake and eat it too don't understand anything farther past some titties, a gun, or some weed. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that what they did was wrong even if they weren't charged with a crime. I'm sorry Jackson got hit by a car and all, but I would've felt much more sorry for a baby laying in a crib somewhere that had a 9mm bullet strike it simply because someone was 'trying to defend himself'.

I'm disgusted by most people who are *****ing about the players being wronged here. I don't give a crap that they didn't have practice until 3:30PM the next day. I don't give a crap that they are grown men. People who understand that they are paid a ton of money to play basketball AND represent themselves in a respectable and LIKEABLE manner would not have been in the situation. THAT is the problem whether anyone wants to admit it or not.

ChicagoJ
10-09-2006, 06:00 PM
A lot more have voted in Part 2 than part one, so I'm going to give this a bump (it was buried on page #2), and then I'll close the poll in another day or so.

Naptown_Seth
10-09-2006, 06:12 PM
I vote for "all this arguing makes us sound like we're on the RATS board."
I have to admit that I was surprised when I strolled over here after debating all day at the Star and saw that the attitude here was much more even-keeled overall. A lot less "get rid of them all and fire Larry, Rick, Donnie and one of the Simons" attitudes.

There are some level posters over there with the range of moderate views like "well its bad PR and he should have known better" and "of all the players that couldn't risk this kind of image hit", but its a lot more common here. Seems like people here are generally more of the attitude that this incident isolated might not really represent something all that bad in terms of what the players did, but that it just makes for a PR disaster, along with questions about their true committment to the team for being out all night.

Not too many people here are ready to see this as proof that ghetto thugs are running wild in the NBA, or much more insulting racial profiling of the situation.


Because of my experience at the Star I've been voting that the fans reaction bugs me the most, but I agree with the PR and poor choice to be there at this time angles too.

Most of all though my view is "forget it, get back to business ASAP because you won't win any games focusing on another distraction, leave that for the fans to worry about".

Destined4Greatness
10-09-2006, 06:16 PM
How the hell can you vote for the 3rd one when we have no clue who drug who to the club. For all we know Snap Hunter was told he was getting cut and asked the Daniels organized the Party to say goodbye, and now that the incident happened the Orgs decided to wait to cut him. We just don't know.

ChicagoJ
10-09-2006, 06:30 PM
How the hell can you vote for the 3rd one when we have no clue who drug who to the club. For all we know Snap Hunter was told he was getting cut and asked the Daniels organized the Party to say goodbye, and now that the incident happened the Orgs decided to wait to cut him. We just don't know.

I agree with your comment. however, in the early hours after this incident became known, that was a somewhat-frequently repeated comment here.

But you've got to connect a lot of unknown dots to get there.