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burnzone
10-06-2006, 05:41 AM
Breaking news on WTHR 13, said at Club Rio in Indy last night at 3am, Jack, Jamaal, and Marquis were asked to leave, and Jack was going to his car, and someone in another car hit him, and he was on the hood, and fell off, and then pulled out a 9mm, and fired shots, holy ****

They don't know who the car, or driver was, and didn't have any more details

317Kim
10-06-2006, 05:43 AM
Oh wow! :-o

Dang, I missed it.

burnzone
10-06-2006, 05:45 AM
They just broke in real quick, and gave those details, and said they would have more info as they got it. I'm flipping between 6 and 8, to see if they have it, but haven't seen anything more.

But it sounds like they were at a strip club last night, and were leaving at 3am, probably when they were closing, and someone drive their car at Stephen Jackson as he walked to his car, and hit him, and he fell of the hood, and started shooting.

No one was arrested, and all 3 Pacers were released, they didn't say anything about injuries either.

There is a little blurb at the top of the WTHR website now, if you want to check it out.

http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5505223

I mean, ****, as much as some people have faults with Jack, he sure as hell don't need to be hit by a damn crazy *** lunatic in a damn parking lot.

They're now saying all 3 of them had wepons on them, and permits to carry them legally, but Jack was the only one to fire shots, and it was in self defense.

They also said that he declined treatment, so it sounds like he's ok, that part is good news at least.

317Kim
10-06-2006, 05:47 AM
Stating the obvious: This is bad. Really bad.

I bet it would be on WTHR Sports at around 6:20.

caaprius
10-06-2006, 05:49 AM
just remembered Jackson's interview of being more mature, spending time with kids, learning from them and so on.... let your actions speak for you...

btw. what a hell was Marquis doing with those two morons?

317Kim
10-06-2006, 05:52 AM
just remembered Jackson's interview of being more mature, spending time with kids, learning from them and so on.... let your actions speak for you...

btw. what a hell was Marquis doing with those two morons?


Yeah, I was thinking about that recent article about him.

It says that Jack was "dragged in the parking lot" after being hit by a car.

burnzone
10-06-2006, 05:53 AM
Yeah, aside from hoping all 3 are ok, my next thought was wondering why in the hell they're at a strip club at 3 am, on a weeknight before practice, that's almost asking for trouble.

aero
10-06-2006, 05:59 AM
this is just great news...damn it :(

edit: channel 13 is there live right now

317Kim
10-06-2006, 06:00 AM
It's on WTHR NOW!

aero
10-06-2006, 06:03 AM
hope SJax isnt hurt but man..this is going to be all over ESPN shortly..i see Larry and Donnie being very unhappy about this.

edit: jimmy 'snap" hunter was with them too, live on WTHR with IPD

317Kim
10-06-2006, 06:07 AM
I can't believe this.

Police still don't know of anyone who got shot. Tins, Jack, and Quis have been questioned and released. Jack is limping. Pacers trainer took him to a doctor right away.

Jack had a gun with him.
Quis and Tins had guns in their cars.

burnzone
10-06-2006, 06:08 AM
I agree, Larry and Donnie are going to flip their lids about this, because it makes all the money, time and effort into the new slogans, billboards, newspaper ads, and tv commercials look extremely hypocritical.

To me, NBA players are adults, and can do what they want in their free time, but they still need to use good judgement, and not allow themselves to be in a bad spot at the wrong time.

It's just a damn shame that when we all think some of the problem Pacers might actually 'get it' now, and then they pull some ****** like this, and also include Marquis in an evening of gun toting strip clubbing, on a weeknight. :(


*New Info*

Now they're saying there was a verbal altercation inside, then there was a fight outside, and someone hit Jack in the mouth, then as he walked away someone hit him with the car.

And witnesses said Jack was limping afterwards, but refused treatment.

And also Snap Hunter was there too.

Damn.

NorCal_Pacerfan
10-06-2006, 06:09 AM
This is BIG trouble for these guys, especially Jax. It's not going to go over with the Pacers 'win back the fans' campaign. Jax was firing his gun at 3 AM after being hit by a car while leaving a strip club? Yikes. Man, this forum is going to light up this morning.

aero
10-06-2006, 06:09 AM
SJax - had a 9mm gun fired atleast 4 shots either in the air or at the cars.

Tinsley - had gun is car

Daniels - gun in car (permit out of Florida)

Snap - no gun

they all have permits as well....

man oh man this is a PR nightmare for the Pacers...we just got these cool ads running on tv and now im sure they will have to be pulled.

317Kim
10-06-2006, 06:13 AM
:shakehead

They're continuously updating on WTHR, so you might just want to keep that on.

I am very tired of this. It's 5 AM and I'm listening to the news about some players on my favorite team being involved in a shooting incident. Wonderful. :sarcasm:

Why, oh why, must they ride together.

aero
10-06-2006, 06:15 AM
live on channe 8 now talking about it all, showing taped footage of Marquis getting in a cop car

NorCal_Pacerfan
10-06-2006, 06:18 AM
When will the 'Curse of the Pacers' ever end? This is just too surreal.

aero
10-06-2006, 06:21 AM
When will the 'Curse of the Pacers' ever end? This is just too surreal.

yeah this stuff is just getting ridiclous now :mad:

i know Jax was defending himself but MAN..this is just gonna make the rest of the nba shake their heads...

Pacers#1Fan
10-06-2006, 06:22 AM
Yeah lets not trade Jax, BRILLIENT! I wonder how much more ****ing drama this team can bring upon itself?! Well whatever it is I'm sure they'll find it.

burnzone
10-06-2006, 06:25 AM
After being really excited about the season getting ready to start, the new look roster, with a supposed new attitude and focus, and the first preseason game on tv next wednesday.

And now it's back to the same old, same old.

****ing unbelievable :mad:

I'd love to be a fly on the wall, to see the reaction from Larry, and Donnie when they first got the call about this.

You know they are about going to have to remove all of those new commercials, billboards, and advertisements, or else get rid of these guys to show that they are serious, and will not put up with a lack of professionalism, or incidents like this.

And that's unfortunate, because I was really hoping those guys would come back with different mindsets, and attitudes this year, and flourish as players.

We do not need another Ron Artest type situation this season, with so many distractions that it makes it impossible to play well.

Eindar
10-06-2006, 06:26 AM
I guess Jack and Tins were out showing Marquis and Snap what "We Ride Together" is all about.

Joking aside, they're adults, they can be wherever they like whenever they like, but if you're a million-dollar athlete, it's pretty juvenile to get yourself involved in an altercation like this. I understand, some guy could start some crap with you because you're throwing 20s around like they're quarters and somebody gets jealous, but if that's how you're going to roll, you need to hire some dudes off the Colts practice squad to protect you or something.

aero
10-06-2006, 06:29 AM
this sure has deflated my happiness about the fan jam sunday...man this pre-season was looking brite too...just our luck though NOTHING seems to get right for us NOTHING :mad:

317Kim
10-06-2006, 06:30 AM
There will be 'complete coverage' on WTHR within the next half hour.

I'm going to miss the rest of this because I'm heading to school.

rexnom
10-06-2006, 06:31 AM
*banging head against table*

It doesn't matter what happened or how "right" or "justified" anyone was...this is going to come out bad.

Oh well, on the bright side, at least they seem to be getting along well.

p.s. Why would three professional basketball players all carry guns...bodyguards were too expensive?

aero
10-06-2006, 06:32 AM
Jax was the only one armed, the rest had their guns in their cars, again its on WTHR right now

rexnom
10-06-2006, 06:34 AM
Ok...well, at least they went home which means that they didn't do anything illegal or get hurt. That's the good news. Everything else...the bad news.

able
10-06-2006, 06:34 AM
shakes head at reactions here.............................

Instead of worrying how the guys are, you are passing judgement on adults doing in their own time what they want to do and on top of that teammates socializing.

Talk about bodyguards, seems like you never seen these guys up close...

caaprius
10-06-2006, 06:35 AM
well.. if Jack and Tins had any trade value before this, now its completely gone....

NorCal_Pacerfan
10-06-2006, 06:35 AM
Thank GOD JO, AL and Danny weren't there. I'm not surprised Tinman was there, but I'm a bit surprised that Marquis was. That's not going to win him any browny points with the fans - before he even plays his first game. But Jax will ultimately take the fall for firing his gun.

aero
10-06-2006, 06:36 AM
my first concern was in the safety and well being of the guys but after hearing they are all ok i had to look at it from a PR standpoint this is going to look ugly on the Pacers organization. they have been trying to shed the image of a "badboy/thug" image...this whole incident isnt going to help any what so ever.

rexnom
10-06-2006, 06:37 AM
shakes head at reactions here.............................

Instead of worrying how the guys are, you are passing judgement on adults doing in their own time what they want to do and on top of that teammates socializing.

Talk about bodyguards, seems like you never seen these guys up close...
Um...I am really worried about them getting hurt. More than anything. If someone pulls a gun on Jack I want there to be two other guys there ready to take a bullet for him.

rexnom
10-06-2006, 06:39 AM
Btw, if you guys think that JO and Al have never been to a strip club...you're kidding yourselves. I'm surprised they weren't with the other guys. This isn't like a horrible, immoral thing. You shouldn't be surprised or disappointed that Marquis was there.

burnzone
10-06-2006, 06:43 AM
shakes head at reactions here.............................

Instead of worrying how the guys are, you are passing judgement on adults doing in their own time what they want to do and on top of that teammates socializing.

Talk about bodyguards, seems like you never seen these guys up close...

As far as my own reactions, I am not at all just passing judgement on what these guys are doing in their free time, and I also made comments in previous posts about hoping they are ok, as well as noticing others made similar sentiments about hoping they are ok.

I do agree with the basic premise that they are adults, and can do what they want in their free time. But when those things involve putting themselves in places that are asking for trouble then that is not an aceptable choice for a professional athlete representing a franchise and city.

Being at a low-end strip club at closing time, as opposed to maybe going to a nicer one in the earlier time of night, if they have to go to a strip club, or just going to a regular bar, restaurant, or friends house to socialize safely, would be a lot better choice.

And to me, it's also about those individual players involved realizing all of the ads, commercials, and billboards that the Pacers organization are trying to prove to fans that the team is commited to being professionals, and getting away from the B.S. And now this incident makes it look like all that was just talk, and a select few were not actually willing to do it, and that's disappointing to me.

The strip club isn't a big deal to me, as it is the choice made to patronize one that late at night on a weeknight before having practice the next day, and also the fact that it was a skanky one, and then all 3 of them carrying guns out in public, as opposed to having bodyguards as some have mentioned above.

It just seems like a lot of up and down from the past 2 seasons, to the past few months with the trades, bringing Al back, and the organization trying to convince fans that it would be different this year, and I'm really feeling let down by their choice they made last night, that's all.

Eindar
10-06-2006, 06:43 AM
shakes head at reactions here.............................

Instead of worrying how the guys are, you are passing judgement on adults doing in their own time what they want to do and on top of that teammates socializing.

Talk about bodyguards, seems like you never seen these guys up close...

I'm concerned that Jax will miss time with a busted knee, otherwise, I know they're fine, other than Jax's limp. I don't see where the "worrying how the guys are" comes into play. But I mapquested the location they were at, Able, and they had no business being in that neighborhood at that time of night with their financial status and no backup. It's stupid. If they wanted to have a good, sleazy night out, surely they could have went to a Hooters in Fishers and pulled just as much tail, given their status, assuming they were indeed in a strip club. If they were in a bar at 38th and Georgetown, that's even dumber. They could have been hanging out at JOs night club or something.

Finally, on the topic of bodyguards. Obviously, it didn't matter how big Jax is up close. He loses vs. a car grill 10 times out of 10. At worst, a bodyguard gives them an extra set of eyes to see some dude about to turn Jax into a hood ornament. Also, plenty of blame to go 'round for club security. If you've got an altercation like that involving a high-profile customer, you need to ensure that they get safely away from the confines, even if you have to call the cops to escort them.

aero
10-06-2006, 06:44 AM
yeah i could care less that they were at a strip club i mean come on what grown man hasnt been to a strip club no biggie there but this going to make the Pacers look frowned upon by media...etc its like a shark smelling blood when stuff like this happens.

Personally im happy that they are all ok but this just isnt going to look pretty at all.

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 06:47 AM
Btw, if you guys think that JO and Al have never been to a strip club...you're kidding yourselves. I'm surprised they weren't with the other guys. This isn't like a horrible, immoral thing. You shouldn't be surprised or disappointed that Marquis was there.

Yeah - I don't know about strip clubs but in my younger days I used to see a lot of Pacers out at night in Indy. Champs used to be a favorite hangout - DD, Workman - I believe the fella that God told to go to Toronto was there occasionally too.

Still comes down to judgement. Rio's not the worst place in the world - right next to Babe's - but it's not the best either. When I heard where it was the first thing I'm thinking is that Jax wanted to taste the ghetto a bit. I guess he did.

There are folks who go to those places that you don't want to screw with. For some of them, there's nothing they'd like better than to get into a fight with a Pacers player.

Though it is nice that Jax and Tinsley are taking some new players under their wing, showing them the town, seeing the sights ...

PR Dept is scrambling now.

aero
10-06-2006, 06:50 AM
yeah

Jimmy Hunter's chance of making the team now are all but gone id say...what a shame

Eindar
10-06-2006, 06:51 AM
We need MR to come up with a picture of Tinsley standing outside of the strip club holding the dustpan while Jax shoots at a car, and "It's up to us" at the bottom or something similar.

Surely we can make something funny out of this with photoshop.

Hicks
10-06-2006, 06:55 AM
This sounded much worse 'til I saw more of the details. It's not good, but I don't think it's a PR nightmare when it's self-defense, everyone had permits for their guns, no one is in custody, and no reports of anyone shot or even injured other than a limping Jackson.

I think it's stupid of them to get into that situation, and I'm not thrilled, but I don't think this is a disaster by any stretch.

Hicks
10-06-2006, 06:57 AM
And now I'm hearing Jackson fired the shots in the air, not AT somebody.

Everyone needs to chill out a little bit; at least don't panic about PR, etc.

burnzone
10-06-2006, 06:59 AM
... and they had no business being in that neighborhood at that time of night with their financial status and no backup. It's stupid. If they wanted to have a good, sleazy night out, surely they could have went to a Hooters in Fishers and pulled just as much tail, given their status, assuming they were indeed in a strip club. If they were in a bar at 38th and Georgetown, that's even dumber. They could have been hanging out at JOs night club or something.

Finally, on the topic of bodyguards. Obviously, it didn't matter how big Jax is up close. He loses vs. a car grill 10 times out of 10. At worst, a bodyguard gives them an extra set of eyes to see some dude about to turn Jax into a hood ornament. Also, plenty of blame to go 'round for club security. If you've got an altercation like that involving a high-profile customer, you need to ensure that they get safely away from the confines, even if you have to call the cops to escort them.

I agree with this completely, it's not the fact that they were at a strip club that's bothersome, it's the fact that out of all clubs in Indy, that is the wrong end of town for guys of that stature, and those guys have no business being there without security, for some personal entertainment.

They could have went to a number of other places that would have been much safer ends of town, with other clientele in there that would have been more respectful of them being stars out in public.

The type of patrons that frequent establishments on that end of town are the kind of folks who would gladly invite some trouble to a famous pro athlete's way, and it's always best to avoid that, or go somewhere else.

And I also agree that whatever security they had there must have been nonexistant. Anytime you have high profile customers at a place like that, you anticipate that someone might start some ****, and escort them everywhere, unless they ask you not to specifically. And at the very least make damn sure they get to their cars safely.



So, just for the record, I am glad they are ok, and no one was seriously hurt.

I am disappointed in their choice in going to that kind of place, on that end of town, at that time of night, on a weeknight before practice.

I am also disappointed that they went to a place like that, packing heat, while just beginning training camp. I would feel a lot better about their personal choice to patronize a place like that, if it was the offseason, and it was truly their time, and not an important time when the team is trying to be focused, and needs them.

Personally, I feel like if they had to go to a strip club to hang out, or socialize, I have no problem with the idea of that, but I would prefer they use a little better judgement, and go to a better end of town, or go to a regular club, J.O's club, or a friend's house, and just invite some strippers over. Any of those options would be way better than those 4 going to 38th and Gemco, late at night.

I personally dont think it's something that will just blow up as a PR problem, but I do have a problem with their choices they made last night, and lack of judgement.

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 07:00 AM
And now I'm hearing Jackson fired the shots in the air, not AT somebody.

Everyone needs to chill out a little bit; at least don't panic about PR, etc.

I just heard that he shot at the car as it was leaving.

Not to say either description's more valid than the other.

obnoxiousmodesty
10-06-2006, 07:02 AM
This was honestly the very first thing I heard when I turned on the television this morning--interesting way to start my day.

If the story continues as is, then I think little real PR damage is going to be done to the Pacers. That is to say, the self-defense aspect to the altercation. The local media will surely be talking about this story for days, and if self-defense, the saturated news coverage should deter most people from a major negative reaction.

Also, I'd like to add that I think it very poor judgment by these four to be where they were at that time of night. They're grown men and can do whatever they please, but even adults have to take a look around and realize when they might need to alter their plans.

rexnom
10-06-2006, 07:02 AM
And now I'm hearing Jackson fired the shots in the air, not AT somebody.

Everyone needs to chill out a little bit; at least don't panic about PR, etc.
So...Jack didn't actually try to hit someone? That would be good. Any word on his limping? Did he get hurt somehow?

rexnom
10-06-2006, 07:03 AM
I just heard that he shot at the car as it was leaving.

Not to say either description's more valid than the other.
Yeah, that's not exactly self-defense.

Pacersfan46
10-06-2006, 07:04 AM
Guys, don't jump to conclusions on Stephen Jackson, he was only a couple blocks from the area where I got shot over LITERALLY nothing. I sure didn't do anything to bring it on myself.

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 07:06 AM
And I also agree that whatever security they had there must have been nonexistant. Anytime you have high profile customers at a place like that, you anticipate that someone might start some ****, and escort them everywhere, unless they ask you not to specifically. And at the very least make damn sure they get to their cars safely.

LOL - that's not gonna happen at that place.

Security amounts to a guy at the door and possibly one or two guys watching from the bar. There's no escorting going on.

The other security is an area "sort of" set off from most of the tables next to the three dance floors/stages where the "friends" of the dancers hang out. You want to get in trouble, start screwing with one of the dancers when one of those guys sees you (not to say that's what happened).

Or so I've heard ...

owl
10-06-2006, 07:09 AM
I guess Jackson has more street cred now. Pathetic.
Driving around with weapons in your car late at night and going to
strip bar does not show a pathetic lack in judgement?
Yes, this will go over great with the average Pacer fan.
I can here the boos already. Late night-strip bar-alchohol-guns.
What a combination.

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 07:10 AM
Guys, don't jump to conclusions on Stephen Jackson, he was only a couple blocks from the area where I got shot over LITERALLY nothing. I sure didn't do anything to bring it on myself.

Which raises the bigger question over judgement.

Not sure it's even a couple of blocks - the Mall's right behind it.

Just not a good part of town.

Ralph Snart
10-06-2006, 07:16 AM
We need MR to come up with a picture of Tinsley standing outside of the strip club holding the dustpan while Jax shoots at a car, and "It's up to us" at the bottom or something similar.

Surely we can make something funny out of this with photoshop.

LOL, I just spit out my coffee.

I can see that this is bad PR, but if anything, I think it will bring the team closer to together. Didn't everyone see the movie "Kickboxer?" The US team were all individuals, until they got into a bar fight and teamed up. Then they went and beat the crap out of the South Korean team.

Same thing here.

All joking aside though, the only place you're going to find a strip club is in the seedy part of town. I'm sure in Jack's tenure with the team, he has gone lots of times, it just so happens that this time somethng bad happened.

Does this hurt the Pacers PR campaign? Sure.
Does this hurt the Pacers ability to compete? Not at all.

I don't care how many fans are in the stand, that doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that everyone is out on the floor, playing their asses off.

What happened this morning doesn't hurt that.

rexnom
10-06-2006, 07:20 AM
I just hope this doesn't hurt Jack's determination to improve his game greatly this year. I had very high expectations for him and still do. I like the guy.

RWB
10-06-2006, 07:32 AM
but if that's how you're going to roll, you need to hire some dudes off the Colts practice squad to protect you or something.
Close my friend, but usually it's former college lineman who do this for the Colts. Seems IU has been a popular recruiting school.

Raskolnikov
10-06-2006, 07:44 AM
I'm just wondering what they were doing in a strip club at 3 AM during training camp.

Why they got into a fight.

Why they all carry/own guns.

Why Jack took 5 shots at a car that was driving away.

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 08:12 AM
I'm just wondering what they were doing in a strip club at 3 AM during training camp.

Why they got into a fight.

Why they all carry/own guns.

Why Jack took 5 shots at a car that was driving away.

A) They made a late night Taco Bell run and were hypnotized by the bright, flashing lights

B) Jax had to go to the restroom and was worried about not being able to tell between his glass and Tinsley's so he tore off a piece of scotch tape to write his name on

C) Jax wanted to have the politically correct answer to that age-old question: Are you happy to see me or is that a gun in your pocket?

D) Because his gun didn't hold 6?

I could make up a heckuva top ten list.

hoopsforlife
10-06-2006, 08:14 AM
I guess when Jax when said he wasn't going to cuss at Rick this year he really meant it. He'll just whip out his trusty 9m and take care of business.

At least we got rid of guys like Cro, Fred and Eddie this summer. Troublemakers anyway. :shakehead :confused:

Evan_The_Dude
10-06-2006, 08:16 AM
I'm just wondering what they were doing in a strip club at 3 AM during training camp.

Why they got into a fight.

Why they all carry/own guns.

Why Jack took 5 shots at a car that was driving away.

1. They have the right to do whatever they want NBA or no NBA as long as it isn't breaking any laws or NBA rules.

2. You never know. Drunk Pacer fans could have been at the club and started the altercation, and judging by the direction this team is trying to go, I'd believe this was the case.

3. Lets see, multi-million dollar athletes that are a large target for a robbery... I'd carry a gun too, and I'm sure they're not the only ones.

4. Well, the person had to be in the car driving to try to run him over. For all he knows, they could be turning back around to hit him again. He probably fired shots to say 'I have a gun, stay away'.


We all know Jack has a mouth, and maybe Jack said something in response to what someone else said and pissed somebody off. I don't think this is a PR nightmare because according to the IPD, none of the Pacers were in the wrong and the shots fired were in self defense. If that's what the IPD is saying, then there's no more to discuss. Move on.

I'm just thankful that Jack DID have a gun.

LoneGranger33
10-06-2006, 08:18 AM
Just another example of Stephen Jackson taking bad shots when he doesn't have to.

My take: Jackson got hit by a car - will probably be in practice tomorrow. Tinsley dove for cover at the sound of gunfire and broke his entire rib cage - is likely to be out for the rest of the season. Snap Hunter changes nickname to Bang Bang Hunter. Marquis Daniels proves he is a threat to shoot outside.

hoopsforlife
10-06-2006, 08:20 AM
They are lucky I'm not the GM of the Pacers. It would be real easy for me to know, right now, which 15 player would make the team and which 4 would be cut.

Donnie and Larry. Its time to send a final message about this type of behavior now.

:mad:

porsche
10-06-2006, 08:24 AM
I got some pretty nice idea on doing some kind of a TV show about the guns NBA players carrying with themselves. So if anybody does know what was Jax's and the rest of guys' guns, please hook me up with that info, thx ;)

LoneGranger33
10-06-2006, 08:25 AM
They are lucky I'm not the GM of the Pacers. It would be real easy for me to know, right now, which 15 player would make the team and which 4 would be cut.

Donnie and Larry. Its time to send a final message about this type of behavior now.

:mad:

I'm not sure if this is a good decision...we would lose 2 starters, our backup SG, and, well, Bang Bang Hunter isn't that big of a loss I suppose...

I heard Sarunas and Maceo were fortified inside the club with a whole arsenal of automatics, but no shots were fired - only grenade was thrown, but it didn't detonate.

BTW - Please begin the photoshopping contest!

RWB
10-06-2006, 08:26 AM
Donnie and Larry. Its time to send a final message about this type of behavior now.

:mad:

HAve Donnie and Larry spoke to the guys concerning what they do off the court? What about PAcers management in general, do they have people come in and talk to the players about this sort of thing. I know the NBA usually does with Rookies, but is there some type of continuing education for these guys after their rook year?

MSA2CF
10-06-2006, 08:28 AM
:shakehead

Putnam
10-06-2006, 08:29 AM
"It's up to us."

"To make the right moves on and off the court."

It's up to us."

"To give the fans what they want to see."

It's up to us."

rexnom
10-06-2006, 08:30 AM
They are lucky I'm not the GM of the Pacers. It would be real easy for me to know, right now, which 15 player would make the team and which 4 would be cut.

Donnie and Larry. Its time to send a final message about this type of behavior now.

:mad:
They're lucky. We're lucky. Everyone is lucky you're not the GM of the Pacers. Jack is not a bad guy. JT, Marquis, and Snap - Not bad guys. I'm getting really tired of people blaming especially Jack for everything when Jack has been one hell of a player for this team.

RWB
10-06-2006, 08:31 AM
"It's up to us."

"To make the right moves on and off the court."

It's up to us."

"To give the fans what they want to see."

It's up to us."

Excellent Putnam, excellent my friend.

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 08:31 AM
BTW - Please begin the photoshopping contest!

Yup - where's MR?

Jax as Rambo is a good start.

I just can't friggin' WAIT until I talk to my sister again. :mad:

MSA2CF
10-06-2006, 08:31 AM
"A small amount of marijuana was found in the car of one player, but no arrest was made, IPD spokesman Sgt. Matthew Mount said. The officer said he did not know in which car the drug was found."
--Indystar.com

It just gets better and better. :rolleyes:

LoneGranger33
10-06-2006, 08:32 AM
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15694848.htm

"Jackson, 28, told officers he fired his 9 mm pistol four of five times in the air in self-defense after he was slugged in the jaw and hit by a car outside the club, said Sgt. Matthew Mount, spokesman for the Indianapolis Police Department. Jackson went up onto the hood of the car, Mount said.

There were no reports of anyone being struck by the gunfire, and police did not make any immediate arrests. Police are looking for the car that hit Jackson and others involved."

Did people wait around for Jackson's shots to fall back down to Earth, or is someone not telling the truth?

rexnom
10-06-2006, 08:33 AM
"A small amount of marijuana was found in the car of one player, but no arrest was made, IPD spokesman Sgt. Matthew Mount said. The officer said he did not know in which car the drug was found."
--Indystar.com

It just gets better and better. :rolleyes:
Why were they searching the cars btw? Isn't that illegal? Regardless...these guys are just making it harder and harder for us to defend them.

RamBo_Lamar
10-06-2006, 08:35 AM
Maybe Jack was just trying to show his teamates that he is the Pacers
best shooter in a clutch situation!

:D

indygeezer
10-06-2006, 08:36 AM
Bullets were fired...where'd they go? That is the negligence side of the arguement. The vehicle is moving AWAY from you, with the risk to other lives and/or property there is no need to fire your weapon...other than vengence. And if the car does turn to make another run at you you STILL have time to fire then. If fired into the air...where did the slugs end up? They don't just vaporize they become a missle threat to everybody.

I'm licensed to carry a weapon....seldom do because they can be taken from you and used against you or stolen and used against someone else.

317Kim
10-06-2006, 08:40 AM
"It's up to us."

"To make the right moves on and off the court."

It's up to us."

"To give the fans what they want to see."

It's up to us."


:applaud:

Anyhow, I take it that Jack is okay other than the limp.

hoopsforlife
10-06-2006, 08:45 AM
I'm not sure if this is a good decision...we would lose 2 starters, our backup SG, and, well, Bang Bang Hunter isn't that big of a loss I suppose...

If those other people involved had returned fire we could have lost them anyway.


[QUOTE=I heard Sarunas and Maceo were fortified inside the club with a whole arsenal of automatics, but no shots were fired - only grenade was thrown, but it didn't detonate.[/QUOTE]

If this was true we should get rid of them too. I really am upset about this. This was the year we weren't supposed to have any problems. Ron's gone and all the other malcontents were moved. It was sunshine and roses from now on. Then this.

I firmly believe they moved the wrong people. They should have kept the quality guys and moved the rest. I personally, am losing my desire to even care about these clowns anymore.

Grow up already. Good grief. Cro, Fred, even Eddie Gill and AJ were responsible human beings who could play basketball. They were not the best in the league but they could play and stay out of trouble at the same time.

RWB
10-06-2006, 08:48 AM
So when does Pacer's management send out this email?

Receive Up To Four Complimentary Tickets and we'll pay you.

The Pacers hope to have an exciting and up-tempo team this year and players who quit doing bonehead things. You have the opportunity to be one of the first to see our new look.

Because of your continued support through the years, we want to offer you up to four complimentary tickets for all the Pacers' home games and we'll pay you. :D

bulldog
10-06-2006, 08:52 AM
I'm gonna wait for a few days for all the details about this to come out before making any judgements.

But lord, after all the "clean slate" bull crap, the ads, etc, this is not good.

Raskolnikov
10-06-2006, 08:55 AM
1. They have the right to do whatever they want NBA or no NBA as long as it isn't breaking any laws or NBA rules.

2. You never know. Drunk Pacer fans could have been at the club and started the altercation, and judging by the direction this team is trying to go, I'd believe this was the case.

3. Lets see, multi-million dollar athletes that are a large target for a robbery... I'd carry a gun too, and I'm sure they're not the only ones.

4. Well, the person had to be in the car driving to try to run him over. For all he knows, they could be turning back around to hit him again. He probably fired shots to say 'I have a gun, stay away'.

1. Sure, they do. But that doesn't make it less stupid, right?

2. It mostly takes two parties to get into a fight. Just not being there could've avoided the possibility in the first place. And even then, they could've just walked away.

3. What? It's not like he's carrying large amounts of money when he's at the strip club, I would think. I can slightly understand that he'd keep a gun at home as protection (I'm against it though, for various reasons), but carry one? Come on.

4. I think it was pretty clear from the reports that the car was driving away. That alone makes it totally unnecessary to fire those shots. Aside from that, the question is: did he point his gun towards the car for revenge or did he fire those shots in the air to scare off people? The reports state that it was in self defense, so it must've been the second. I hope for Jack it is.

CompACE
10-06-2006, 09:01 AM
From what i gather with the very little information given so far is that jax, tins, marquis, and snap weren't the ones who instigated the fight, they were merely protecting themselves. It said on wthr that jackson had a permit for the gun he fired so he's probably not going to get charged w/ anything in regards to that.

LoneGranger33
10-06-2006, 09:03 AM
Arresting Officer: Benjamin J. Wallace
http://www.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2006-10/25698952.jpg

RamBo_Lamar
10-06-2006, 09:04 AM
Message to Donnie Walsh:

If it hasn't been done already, you need to get all 4 of them in immediately
and have a nurse standing-by with those dixie cups ready for them to pee
in.

When it's been determined who has been partaking, show no leniency.

Doug
10-06-2006, 09:08 AM
My first thoughts were a couple that people already mentioned:

Jackson taking untimely shots.

Tinsley with the dustpan.


But after that..

The radio broadcast I heard made it sound like there was an incident inside and the Pacers left to try to defuse it. But trouble followed them and they got jumped in the parking lot. It also sounded like Jackson didn't start shooting until he was getting dragged by the car.

Maybe it was just spun well, but it sounded like Jackson made several correct decisions and generally tried to avoid trouble once it started.

Of course the bad decision was putting himself in that position to begin with.

Anthem
10-06-2006, 09:13 AM
Well, Snap's gone. O. Greene just made the roster.

Daniels gets first strike immunity, plus he and Tinsley didn't seem to do much wrong (besides be in a strip clup at 3 in the morning with practice the next day).

But is it even worth it for the pacers brass to re-initiate trade talks? Or has Jax's value tanked so bad that we're hopeless?

That Corey Maggette trade is looking good right now.

Pacesetter
10-06-2006, 09:15 AM
These guys should have known not to club on 38th St. It's a wonder they didn't get shot, that whole area is a great place to get shot.

Wake-up call.

naptown
10-06-2006, 09:16 AM
I'm just wondering what they were doing in a strip club at 3 AM during training camp.

Why they got into a fight.

Why they all carry/own guns.

Why Jack took 5 shots at a car that was driving away.

1. Doing whatever they want with their free time.

2. Who knows what started it all at this point. The players may, or my not of had anything to do with it starting. The details will come out in the next day or two for sure.

3. Because in America it is our right to carry/own firearms and to protect ourselves. I own 3 hand guns and several rifles/shotguns. I carry my Glock 21 (45 caliber) on me at almost all times. By me carrying my handguns, they have saved me from getting robbed/mugged 3 times in the last 10-15 years. I personally question why people DONT carry a fire arm with them.

4. Again, this is very breaking news and the details will come out in the next day or two.

spreedom
10-06-2006, 09:17 AM
I've been for dumping Jack now (not trading, but dumping) and I think now is the time. Just buy out his contract and let someone else take on that cancer.

Unclebuck
10-06-2006, 09:17 AM
This sounded much worse 'til I saw more of the details. It's not good, but I don't think it's a PR nightmare when it's self-defense, everyone had permits for their guns, no one is in custody, and no reports of anyone shot or even injured other than a limping Jackson.

I think it's stupid of them to get into that situation, and I'm not thrilled, but I don't think this is a disaster by any stretch.

Finally a voice of reason on this.

A lot of professional athletes carry guns I mean a lot of them. I would guess of the current NBA and NFL players, I bet well over 50% carry guns to some degree.

As far as the commercials being hypocritical because of this, I don't know about that, I thought the commercials were talking about on court stuff.

naptown
10-06-2006, 09:21 AM
Daniels gets first strike immunity, plus he and Tinsley didn't seem to do much wrong (besides be in a strip clup at 3 in the morning with practice the next day).

Why is that wrong? Would it be ok if they were at Waffle House or Steak N Shake at 3AM? Would be ok if they were just hanging at one another's home at 3AM?

Evan_The_Dude
10-06-2006, 09:29 AM
It hasn't been mentioned in this thread that there's actual video of the incident. This would obviously show what parties are at fault. Obviously the Pacers weren't in the wrong because they're not the ones authorities are looking for right now. The way crime has been in Indy lately, you're not safe anywhere. I'm even thinking about getting a gun & permit, and I HATE guns.


Why Jack took 5 shots at a car that was driving away.

Of the 1,000 times I've heard the report this morning from the officers mouth, he's never said the shots were fired when the car was driving away.

Roy Munson
10-06-2006, 09:30 AM
They're lucky. We're lucky. Everyone is lucky you're not the GM of the Pacers. Jack is not a bad guy. JT, Marquis, and Snap - Not bad guys. I'm getting really tired of people blaming especially Jack for everything when Jack has been one hell of a player for this team.

This is a pathetic post. Talk about "no accountability". I'm sure it wasn't Jack's fault that he was where he was. It was probably some aliens who abducted him and dropped him at a strip club at 3 a.m. on a work night.

...and he hasn't been a hell of a player. He has been a hell of a dumb player.

Evan_The_Dude
10-06-2006, 09:30 AM
Finally a voice of reason on this.

A lot of professional athletes carry guns I mean a lot of them. I would guess of the current NBA and NFL players, I bet well over 50% carry guns to some degree.

As far as the commercials being hypocritical because of this, I don't know about that, I thought the commercials were talking about on court stuff.

QFT.

RWB
10-06-2006, 09:30 AM
Why is that wrong? Would it be ok if they were at Waffle House or Steak N Shake at 3AM? Would be ok if they were just hanging at one another's home at 3AM?

Nap, I personally have no problem with the guys being at that establishment. I agree with others that what they do on their free time is their business. I think what has people upset is the company line all the players have been saying lately. "Tired of the drama. We need to change and win people back". In other words it appears once again the public has had smoke blown up their backsides once again and that is disappointing.

Raskolnikov
10-06-2006, 09:31 AM
1. Doing whatever they want with their free time.

2. Who knows what started it all at this point. The players may, or my not of had anything to do with it starting. The details will come out in the next day or two for sure.

3. Because in America it is our right to carry/own firearms and to protect ourselves. I own 3 hand guns and several rifles/shotguns. I carry my Glock 21 (45 caliber) on me at almost all times. By me carrying my handguns, they have saved me from getting robbed/mugged 3 times in the last 10-15 years. I personally question why people DONT carry a fire arm with them.

4. Again, this is very breaking news and the details will come out in the next day or two.
1. Again, that doesn't make it less stupid.

2. & 4. I agree that we should wait for more details before judging the entire situation. But it's already stupid from them to create the possibility to get into that situation.

3. This is probably a discussion for another part of the board. I'll just say that I find it very dangerous to allow citizens to carry guns.

Will Galen
10-06-2006, 09:32 AM
One thought. What if practice the next day isn't until 1 pm? Being up and out at 3am doesn't mean much in that case.

I am getting tired of all this . . . crap though.

Evan_The_Dude
10-06-2006, 09:32 AM
This is a pathetic post. Talk about "no accountability". I'm sure it wasn't Jack's fault that he was where he was. It was probably some aliens who abducted him and dropped him at a strip club at 3 a.m. on a work night.

...and he hasn't been a hell of a player. He has been a hell of a dumb player.

If the freakin strip club was open at 3am, then what's wrong with the 4 of them being there? Please tell me the wrong in that. Tell me why a professional athlete can't be at a strip club at 3am, but anybody else can. State your reason please.

Isaac
10-06-2006, 09:34 AM
I have such a sick feeling in my stomache.

Roy Munson
10-06-2006, 09:34 AM
1. Doing whatever they want with their free time.

2. Who knows what started it all at this point. The players may, or my not of had anything to do with it starting. The details will come out in the next day or two for sure.

3. Because in America it is our right to carry/own firearms and to protect ourselves. I own 3 hand guns and several rifles/shotguns. I carry my Glock 21 (45 caliber) on me at almost all times. By me carrying my handguns, they have saved me from getting robbed/mugged 3 times in the last 10-15 years. I personally question why people DONT carry a fire arm with them.

4. Again, this is very breaking news and the details will come out in the next day or two.

Did YOU go to a strip club last night...and stay there until 3 a.m.? Probably not, because you have better judgement than that.

Did YOU get into a fight last night? Probably not.

Did you carry a handgun with you last night into a nightclub? probaby not.

Of course he's an adult and has the RIGHT to do these things. But having the right to do things doesn't make them smart things to do, or right things to do.

NaptownBound
10-06-2006, 09:36 AM
i'll say this... we don't know everything that happened yet. we don't know who provoked who, even though i have an idea. so it's too early to pass judgment and say Jack was wrong or right or whatever.

but think about the climate in Indianapolis right now... 118 homicides, people on edge. you have four NBA players in a club, very recognizable... anything could've happened. but we have to be careful before passing judgment just yet.

everybody be easy.

Unclebuck
10-06-2006, 09:36 AM
Nap, I personally have no problem with the guys being at that establishment. I agree with others that what they do on their free time is their business. I think what has people upset is the company line all the players have been saying lately. "Tired of the drama. We need to change and win people back". In other words it appears once again the public has had smoke blown up their backsides once again and that is disappointing.

OK fair enough, but does that mean the players can't go to clubs, that they can't go out after midnight, that they can't protect themselves when some drunk yahoos attack them.

I also don't think this type of incident destroys the locker room atmosphere, this just doesn't have an impact on team chemistry.

I think practice starts at noon

Roy Munson
10-06-2006, 09:36 AM
If the freakin strip club was open at 3am, then what's wrong with the 4 of them being there? Please tell me the wrong in that. Tell me why a professional athlete can't be at a strip club at 3am, but anybody else can. State your reason please.

I don't think it's a particularly smart thing for ANYONE to be at a strip club at 3 a.m....especially on a work night. I don't know what time today they were expected to show up at work, but being out until 3 couldn't be a prescribed part of the Pacers' TRAINING program. They are in TRAINING camp, after all.

Raskolnikov
10-06-2006, 09:36 AM
One thought. What if practice the next day isn't until 1 pm? Being up and out at 3am doesn't mean much in that case.
I guess it makes it less worse, but I still wouldn't approve it.

A professional athlete needs his rest. I'd never go clubbing if I were in the midst of the preparation of the new NBA season.

naptown
10-06-2006, 09:40 AM
RWB,

I still dont see what happened last night having any bearing on what happens on the court and how the players approach the game of basketball this year.

All last night is, is an unfortunate off court situation. That's it. It has nothing to do with basketball and it is A FIRST TIME OCCURANCE. It aint like those guys have had any semblance of regular off court issues.

Bad timing? Sure it is. But that is what they are guilty of more than anything else after the last two years. Just bad timing.

Is it going to get the members of Salem's Digest to fire up the oil vats? Sure is, but so would Jackson leaving the toilet seat up after taking a leak at this point.

Israfan
10-06-2006, 09:43 AM
Shocked...
Going with guns to strip club... They just want to be gungsters. I dont get it.

And then this kind of reactions:


shakes head at reactions here.............................

Instead of worrying how the guys are, you are passing judgement on adults doing in their own time what they want to do and on top of that teammates socializing.

Talk about bodyguards, seems like you never seen these guys up close...

Shocked...

Roy Munson
10-06-2006, 09:43 AM
RWB,

I still dont see what happened last night having any bearing on what happens on the court and how the players approach the game of basketball this year.

All last night is, is an unfortunate off court situation. That's it. It has nothing to do with basketball and it is A FIRST TIME OCCURANCE. It aint like those guys have had any semblance of regular off court issues.

Bad timing? Sure it is. But that is what they are guilty of more than anything else after the last two years. Just bad timing.

Is it going to get the members of Salem's Digest to fire up the oil vats? Sure is, but so would Jackson leaving the toilet seat up after taking a leak at this point.

Wow. Jack should hire you has his apologist/publicist.

LoneGranger33
10-06-2006, 09:47 AM
What about Jackson's post-brawl probation? Is that over yet?

Evan_The_Dude
10-06-2006, 09:47 AM
3. What? It's not like he's carrying large amounts of money when he's at the strip club, I would think. I can slightly understand that he'd keep a gun at home as protection (I'm against it though, for various reasons), but carry one? Come on.

Let's see, a strip club. Strippers get tipped which means he'd have some money on him. Jewelry, an expensive car, that makes him a bigger target for robbery than the average person. According to Indianapolis law you can carry a gun with a permit, but it's illegal to shoot it within city limits unless it's in self defense, which they've determined in Jackson's case it was. What good does leaving your gun at home do if a professional athlete is most vunerable in public?

Frank Slade
10-06-2006, 09:51 AM
Ok my quick two cents.

My first reaction when I heard was , who was involved ?, and I hope they are ok....

Daniels and Hunter probably went along as the new guys, trying to fit in.

Although one of the PD members here recenlty saw Jax and Daniels at the airport together, so perhaps they hang out.

I almost feel bad for Jax in a pity sort of way, His reputation precedes him, and sometimes trouble seems to find him. Let's hope this is the case as well.

They are grown men, and sure they can do what they want in their spare time. However if you're trying to improve your image, and a fresh start, being at the wrong place at the wrong time is the one thing you need to avoid the most. Next time they need to arrange "in house" entertainment if that's their thing, Avoid those places, especially at that time at all costs right now.

Like some have said , there are people there just looking to start something with people like Jackson, either to prove something or perhaps get a lawsuit out of it.

If you want to carry gun ok , that's fine but leave it in your car.
I think if Jackson had not had his gun on him, the story would not have as much juice as it does now. Hire armed bodyguards if need be.

Hopefully this blows over soon, and nothing incriminating comes out on any of the Pacers involved. It sounds like, whatever the situation was , they tried to do the right thing and leave to avoid conflict.

Unfortuantely perception is reality for the general public and casual fans, all they heard was strip club, fight, Jackson, Tinsley shots fired, and tuned the rest out.
:(

naptown
10-06-2006, 09:54 AM
Wow. Jack should hire you has his apologist/publicist.

What part of my post was not truth? I didnt put a spin on anything. Did the facts being presented in an intelligent unbiased manner ruffle your judgmental small minded view of the world?

LoneGranger33
10-06-2006, 09:55 AM
Dum, dum, dum, buddy what have you done
Dum, dum, dum, it's the sound of his gun
Dum, dum, dum, buddy what have you done
Dum, dum, dum, it's the sound, it's the sound...
Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah....

Jackson's Got A Gun
Jackson's Got A Gun
Our whole team's come undone
Even Tins had a gun
What did his dumbass do?
What did he put us through?


...I really wish I could run away, run away from the pain Mr. Tyler...

RWB
10-06-2006, 09:58 AM
OK fair enough, but does that mean the players can't go to clubs, that they can't go out after midnight, that they can't protect themselves when some drunk yahoos attack them.

I also don't think this type of incident destroys the locker room atmosphere, this just doesn't have an impact on team chemistry.

I think practice starts at noon

Not at all UB, they can go to clubs they are legal age adults. Once again it is only my opinion, but this is another example of what (I) consider bad decision making and I'm not trying to dictate what one's moral's should be. If someone wants to go into the nude bar then fine. However, I would think the person going in should have in the back of their mind the patrons of this joint maybe slightly different than a church group. Actually maybe that's why Jack went in carrying his gun. Another lovely thought .....Stephen getting liquored up and having a 9 to play with. :-o

naptown
10-06-2006, 10:00 AM
If you want to carry gun ok , that's fine but leave it in your car.

That makes about as much sense as keeping your condom in your car. It aint giving you much protection in the glove compartment.

Mac_Daddy
10-06-2006, 10:06 AM
Ok my quick two cents.

My first reaction when I heard was , who was involved ?, and I hope they are ok....

Daniels and Hunter probably went along as the new guys, trying to fit in.

Although one of the PD members here recenlty saw Jax and Daniels at the airport together, so perhaps they hang out.

I almost feel bad for Jax in a pity sort of way, His reputation precedes him, and sometimes trouble seems to find him. Let's hope this is the case as well.

They are grown men, and sure they can do what they want in their spare time. However if you're trying to improve your image, and a fresh start, being at the wrong place at the wrong time is the one thing you need to avoid the most. Next time they need to arrange "in house" entertainment if that's their thing, Avoid those places, especially at that time at all costs right now.

Like some have said , there are people there just looking to start something with people like Jackson, either to prove something or perhaps get a lawsuit out of it.

If you want to carry gun ok , that's fine but leave it in your car.
I think if Jackson had not had his gun on him, the story would not have as much juice as it does now. Hire armed bodyguards if need be.

Hopefully this blows over soon, and nothing incriminating comes out on any of the Pacers involved. It sounds like, whatever the situation was , they tried to do the right thing and leave to avoid conflict.

Unfortuantely perception is reality for the general public and casual fans, all they heard was strip club, fight, Jackson, Tinsley shots fired, and tuned the rest out.
:(

I agree with you on pretty much all of this, although I think that he has the right to keep the gun on his person. If the club doesn't want people to carry their guns, then sure, he should have left it in the car.

I'd like it to blow over. I do like Jackson as a player. I may not like some parts of his attitude, but I do like that he goes out and plays hard all the time. He is the type of guy that will always be remembered as the knucklehead no matter what he does. He could probably become a saint and people would still think of him as the crazy guy.

Frank Slade
10-06-2006, 10:15 AM
That makes about as much sense as keeping your condom in your car. It aint giving you much protection in the glove compartment.

Ok that is correct in and of itself. Let me clarify.
If you choose to carry a weapon, for whatever reason that you believe you need it to defend yourself, that's your right. Although you have to use common sense, and also be prepared that if you carry a sidearm, that you are really ready to use it if the situation would call for it. It's not for decoration or a showpiece.

If you are at home, or walking down the street by yourself, or in your car that's one thing. When you enter a crowded strip club with friends, do say yourself there may be trouble, let me carry my gun inside? If so why bother going? or like I said hire some muscle to do that for you.

Again if he wants to carry, that's his business, but be prepared for everything that goes with it.

ChicagoJ
10-06-2006, 10:15 AM
Well, it was up "up to them".

Tinsley should've at least taken his chef, I can't imagine anything he'd eat or drink at Rio would be good for an athlete in training.

Then again, I can't imagine being up at 3am during training camp is good for an athlete in training.

Sure they've got the right to make stupid decisions.

Remember, this year its up to them.

There's no silly pretense of "one goal". Its "up to them". If they'd rather hang out in a rough neighborhood at 3am watching pole dancers than commit themselves to being professional athletes in training, then more power to them.

Meanwhile, I'm tired of paying my hard-earned money to support their team, since these clowns don't seem all that committed to it either.

The most recent update in the Star said the dope was found in Tinsley's car, but they couldn't determine if it belonged to any of the players or anyone else so there were no charges.

If I were in charge, all four of these guys would be gone. Yes, even the new guy that I was excited about.

(Thank goodness our frontcourt had the common sense to be somewhere else, even if it was just a "classier" dance establishment.)

RickDerris
10-06-2006, 10:16 AM
Ok, i know that Jackson got hit by the car and all that, but when the headline that i wake up to on espn is "Jackson Fires Gun at Strip Club" well.....you can fill in my thoughts im guessing.

Im just sick of these guy....all the PSAs and cutting off of cornrows wont change the image of this team.


doesnt this make you miss players like Vern Flemming?

ChicagoJ
10-06-2006, 10:19 AM
Email I just sent to my friend that I split my account with:


Are you sure you still want to get tickets for this team?

I could be talked into cancelling. Or, we could wait until the dust settles and make sure these idiots are traded before the season starts.

Your thoughts?

Bo0MeR
10-06-2006, 10:20 AM
So Jack was assualted, walked away from the altercation, then was hit by a car..........

Anyone who's witnessed whats been going on in Indianapolis recently with these killings should know that this is no time to play around when people are doing this crazy *****. The shots Jackson fired were in self defense, and all the players had their weapons legally

whether you THINK the players should have been there or not to begin with, doesn't matter. These are grown men, most likely training camp wasn't until the evening (which does happen) which doesn't make being out at 1am that late to begin with

I refuse to bring the race card into this argument at this point but some of the responses i've been seeing from certain posters (here and at indystars forums) are going to cause someone to eventually bring it up, and I will most likely agree with them if/when they do

Raskolnikov
10-06-2006, 10:20 AM
Well, it was up "up to them".

Tinsley should've at least taken his chef, I can't imagine anything he'd eat or drink at Rio would be good for an athlete in training.

Then again, I can't imagine being up at 3am during training camp is good for an athlete in training.

Sure they've got the right to make stupid decisions.

Remember, this year its up to them.

There's no silly pretense of "one goal". Its "up to them". If they'd rather hang out in a rough neighborhood at 3am watching pole dancers than commit themselves to being professional athletes in training, then more power to them.

Meanwhile, I'm tired of paying my hard-earned money to support their team, since these clowns don't seem all that committed to it either.

The most recent update in the Star said the dope was found in Tinsley's car, but they couldn't determine if it belonged to any of the players or anyone else so there were no charges.

If I were in charge, all four of these guys would be gone. Yes, even the new guy that I was excited about.

(Thank goodness our frontcourt had the common sense to be somewhere else, even if it was just a "classier" dance establishment.)
I agree with all of this.

wooolus
10-06-2006, 10:25 AM
OK, put yourself in the situation, if you get shot or run over by a damn car intentionally, you don't walk away apologizing, u protect yourself! That's what jax did, and why should he get so much heat for trying not to get killed.

naptown
10-06-2006, 10:27 AM
Ok that is correct in and of itself. Let me clarify.
If you choose to carry a weapon, for whatever reason that you believe you need it to defend yourself, that's your right. Although you have to use common sense, and also be prepared that if you carry a sidearm, that you are really to shoot someone if the situation would call for it. It's not for decoration or a showpiece.

If you are at home, or walking down the street by yourself, or in your car that's one thing. When you enter a crowded strip club with friends, do say yourself there may be trouble, let me carry my gun inside? If so why bother going? or like I said hire some muscle to do that for you.

Again if he wants to carry, that's his business, but be prepared for everything that goes with it.

Well he was obviously prepared to use it.

And yes, being stupid and brandishing a gun with no intentions of pulling the trigger will just get you killed. My gun has only left its holster one time in self defense. And yes I was forced to shoot someone.

Slick Pinkham
10-06-2006, 10:28 AM
^^^ Jay & me, we ride together.

:buddies:

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 10:29 AM
OK fair enough, but does that mean the players can't go to clubs, that they can't go out after midnight, that they can't protect themselves when some drunk yahoos attack them.

I also don't think this type of incident destroys the locker room atmosphere, this just doesn't have an impact on team chemistry.

I think practice starts at noon

They can do a lot of things.

In this case, they went to a strip club in a part of town which is known for violence.

The fact that they got caught up in some of the violence is a direct result of being stupid.

I can go to 42nd and College at 2 AM tomorrow morning and decide to take a walk to the Steak and Shake on Keystone. It's perfectly legal and I have a right to do so. If I get mugged (90% likely) on the way - or never get there because I end up in the hospital or morgue (probably about 10% likely) are you going to say none of that's my fault?

Doing stupid crap can get you in trouble. They did stupid crap - not many strip clubs are going to be in a gated community but there are plenty in better parts of town than that. Anybody with a brain knows that place has dealers and pimps in it. You want to hang with that crowd, this is what you get.

RoboHicks
10-06-2006, 10:30 AM
Indiana Pacers player Stephen Jackson was hit in the mouth, struck by a car and fired a gun outside a strip club early Friday, police said.Comment (http://www.topix.net/forum/link/thread?forum=nba/indiana-pacers&artsig=4a96aa0fd7)

More... (http://topix.net/r/0sgB2ypc4UiiNybykHsA8fRk1q0zMTvEdnG0872XzIRFtPe5Lh S=2FC6UmAznI4m=2FPDu9esLCRvcGmY9WnJTPyUqovuN=2B8Mc vP0XkC3W4buCB9lp2w89aMPCsJxLng6a5Ldl04=2B6z6jvrMi0 3uDXlnTCQ=3D=3D)

MagicRat
10-06-2006, 10:31 AM
This reminds me of the time Mike Doss fired shots in the air outside a bar at some early morning hour and was cut by the Colts, who lost all of their fans and spiraled into oblivion......


The most recent update in the Star said the dope was found in Tinsley's car

Purely medicinal (allegedly)..........

Moses
10-06-2006, 10:32 AM
God forbid 3 grown men can't do anything after midnight.

It was completely Jack's fault for getting hit by the car..and Tinsley must have been drinking tons of fattening beer and taking shots of vodka and then trying to drive home! Not only is he getting fat, he's putting everyones lives at risk! Some of you are so unrealistic in your expectations of these guys.

On a sidenote, I do think that this isn't good after all those ads that were released with the whole 'It's up to us!' deal. But who really cares? At the end of the day, you all know none of those guys will be traded.

Moses
10-06-2006, 10:32 AM
This reminds me of the time Mike Doss fired shots in the air outside a bar at some early morning hour and was cut by the Colts, who lost all of their fans and spiraled into oblivion......



Purely medicinal (allegedly)..........
Does wonders for Sinusitis!

BigMac
10-06-2006, 10:33 AM
OK, put yourself in the situation, if you get shot or run over by a damn car intentionally, you don't walk away apologizing, u protect yourself! That's what jax did, and why should he get so much heat for trying not to get killed.


That's crap.

1. He's at a titty bar at 3 AM in the morning and has training camp the next day (along with Tinsley, Daniels, and Hunter).

2. Three of the four Pacers had guns in their car.

I don't remember reading where Peyton Manning or Chris Hinton ever had felt it was necessary to shoot (at) anyone. Reggie Miller or Rik Smits for that matter. Does Peyton carry a gun? I doubt it. Because he doesn't go places he may need it. Like a titty bar.

Strike One for Jackson-the Brawl
Strike Two for Jackson-lack of respect shown in public for Coach Carlisle
Strike Three for Jackson-being at a titty bar at 3 PM during training camp.

JayRedd
10-06-2006, 10:35 AM
Fantastic!!!!!! We will now be the laughingstock of the league for the third consecutive year. You had a nice run Jailblazers, but that dynasty is officially over. Good try, Isiah, you almost beat us out.

Congratulations goes out to the entire Indiana Pacers organization on the three-peat.

I seriously can't believe a lot of you guys are going to such great lengths to rationalize this behavior. Let's save the 2nd Amendment debates and the morality of strip club conversations.

The fact is that four of our players go to strip clubs with guns and fire them if situations get out of hand. That may not be the exact reality (which we will never know), but it's the only thing that matters as far as public opinion is concerned. We are officially considered a team full of juvenile thugs at this point.

This is yet another HUUUUUUGE black eye for our franchise. I for one, am extremely surprised that Stephen Jackson was involved.

Speed
10-06-2006, 10:37 AM
What about Jackson's post-brawl probation? Is that over yet?

oh wow, never thought about that, if he is charged in any way.....

3rdStrike
10-06-2006, 10:37 AM
Looks like the Pacers are the thugs of the NBA again. Fine by me if noone gets severely injured and they win games.

Nothing wrong with going somewhere with a LICENSED weapon, the constitution defends that right.

I read the headline "Jackson hit by car, fires handgun" on ESPN and thought "damn, not Jack again," but in reading the article it seems like he was the victim. What kind of bouncers will follow you after you've left, strike you, and then try to kill you with a vehicle?

I guess we have to wait until more details are out, but that's crazy. Hopefully Jack's injuries are extremely minor.

naptownmenace
10-06-2006, 10:37 AM
Wow....

I'm convinced this team is cursed or something.

LoneGranger33
10-06-2006, 10:38 AM
Strike One for Jackson-the Brawl
Strike Two for Jackson-lack of respect shown in public for Coach Carlisle
Strike Three for Jackson-being at a titty bar at 3 PM during training camp.

Too bad this isn't baseball...
Let's reserve judgment until all the details are out, but I do tend to agree with you --> wrong place + wrong time = bad idea

naptown
10-06-2006, 10:38 AM
Email I just sent to my friend that I split my account with:

Bye. Dont let the door hit you in the backside on the way out.

Bo0MeR
10-06-2006, 10:38 AM
That's crap.

1. He's at a titty bar at 3 AM in the morning and has training camp the next day (along with Tinsley, Daniels, and Hunter).

2. Three of the four Pacers had guns in their car.

I don't remember reading where Peyton Manning or Chris Hinton ever had felt it was necessary to shoot (at) anyone. Reggie Miller or Rik Smits for that matter. Does Peyton carry a gun? I doubt it. Because he doesn't go places he may need it. Like a titty bar.

Strike One for Jackson-the Brawl
Strike Two for Jackson-lack of respect shown in public for Coach Carlisle
Strike Three for Jackson-being at a titty bar at 3 PM during training camp.

Like I said where he was or what time he was there should NOT matter

1) he is a grown man making his own paycheck

2) How out of the ordinary do you think it is for a Pro Athlete to be at a strip club? Do you live in a box?

This is not a issue about respecting coach carlisle, this is a issue on what people believe is repsectable in their own skewed views

How can you even bring peyton into this situation??? Has he ever been punched in the face then run down by a car, it doesn't matter where you are at that point, and being at a strip club certainly isn't supposed to be a place where you put yourself in the line of danger

Moses
10-06-2006, 10:40 AM
That's crap.

1. He's at a titty bar at 3 AM in the morning and has training camp the next day (along with Tinsley, Daniels, and Hunter).
You don't know what time training camp was the next day...so stop acting like it was early the next morning.


2. Three of the four Pacers had guns in their car.
All had legal permits.


I don't remember reading where Peyton Manning or Chris Hinton ever had felt it was necessary to shoot (at) anyone. Reggie Miller or Rik Smits for that matter. Does Peyton carry a gun? I doubt it. Because he doesn't go places he may need it. Like a titty bar.
Any of those guys ever been hit by a car? The guys confronted the Pacers players and players left the bar to avoid confrontation and were leaving when the jerks came outside after them and hit Jackson with their car. And how do you know whether or not Peyton carries a gun? This is 2 completely different situations. Peyton didn't grow up the way Jackson did. And how do you know Peyton has never been to a strip club? Honestly, you guys act like all these athletes are perfect and have never done anything when you've never probably even met them in real life.

naptown
10-06-2006, 10:42 AM
The fact is that four of our players go to strip clubs with guns and fire them if situations get out of hand. That may not be the exact reality (which we will never know), but it's the only thing that matters as far as public opinion is concerned.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA..... To hell with the truth. To hell with the facts. To hell with what really happened. With a mentality like that..... why you could be President!!!

JayRedd
10-06-2006, 10:43 AM
Like I said where he was or what time he was there should NOT matter

You're right....It should not matter.

And all Americans should have health care. And racism should not exist. And unemployed people should be able to find jobs.

But it does matter. Let's not pretend this occurred in the Land of Make Believe.

Bo0MeR
10-06-2006, 10:46 AM
You're right....It should not matter.

And all Americans should have health care. And racism should not exist. And unemployed people should be able to find jobs.

But it does matter. Let's not pretend this occurred in the Land of Make Believe.

It's not about ignoring where they were. it's about the fact that what happened shoudln't be blamed on the fact that they were at the strip club. When someone is punched in the face and then ran down by a car the location isn't what people should be focusing on, theres crazy people everywhere and it's these mens rights to be out where they were

JayRedd
10-06-2006, 10:46 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA..... To hell with the truth. To hell with the facts. To hell with what really happened. With a mentality like that..... why you could be President!!!

I'm not saying forget the facts in a legal sense or from the NBA disciplinary committee or from the Pacers front office.

I'm saying that most people think Stephen Jackson (and other Pacers) are reckless, juvenile, irresponsible thugs. You know, those people that boo him in Conseco and all the sports writers that question him continually.

I'm sure they are sitting around debating the finer points of whether he does or does not have the right to defend himself by shooting a gun in the air.

RWB
10-06-2006, 10:48 AM
This reminds me of the time Mike Doss fired shots in the air outside a bar at some early morning hour and was cut by the Colts, who lost all of their fans and spiraled into oblivion......



Purely medicinal (allegedly)..........

Haven't heard any negative stories since that incident about Doss. Have you? :devil:

Ragnar
10-06-2006, 10:48 AM
IN all fairness to Jack it was good of him to only fire into the air and not shoot the person who hit him with the car. I think most of us would have shot the person who hit us with the car.

JayRedd
10-06-2006, 10:49 AM
It's not about ignoring where they were. it's about the fact that what happened shoudln't be blamed on the fact that they were at the strip club. When someone is punched in the face and then ran down by a car the location isn't what people should be focusing on, theres crazy people everywhere and it's these mens rights to be out where they were

You guys act like there a lots of people out there debating this and talking about it like we do on this board.

Normal fans don't do that.

And the average guy at a game will walk away with the idea that "The Pacers were involved in a shooting incident at a Strip Club"

I'm not really trying to debate what happened in a situation I know nothing about. I'm just trying to state what I'm pretty sure the average person is going to take away from this whole thing.

ChicagoJ
10-06-2006, 10:50 AM
Bye. Dont let the door hit you in the backside on the way out.

Well, after fourteen years of having some form of season tickets, including the last six seasons AFTER I moved out of Indy, I'd say that its a total shame the team continues to alienate long-time fans this way to where I would even consider dropping my tickets. Moving 200 miles away didn't stop me. But three straight years of embarassing incidents and no discipline whatsoever is about to stop me.

But thanks so much for your thoughtful response.

naptown
10-06-2006, 10:53 AM
You're right....It should not matter.

And all Americans should have health care. And racism should not exist. And unemployed people should be able to find jobs.

But it does matter. Let's not pretend this occurred in the Land of Make Believe.

Well Mr. President, until the facts of why all of this occurred is released, and it will be released because there are cameras all over that strip club both inside and outside, maybe we should hold off judgment.

RWB
10-06-2006, 10:55 AM
Well, after fourteen years of having some form of season tickets, including the last six seasons AFTER I moved out of Indy, I'd say that its a total shame the team continues to alienate long-time fans this way to where I would even consider dropping my tickets.


Pissed away a few plasmas because of that Pacer support haven't you friend.

JayRedd
10-06-2006, 10:56 AM
Well Mr. President, until the facts of why all of this occurred is released, and it will be released because there are cameras all over that strip club both inside and outside, maybe we should hold off judgment.

There's that should word again.

Must be a nice place you live in where people are judged by reality and actual facts instead of instant perception by the masses. And good waterfront condos still available?

I'm sure video evidence will only help uplift the Pacers franchise. Should be great to see which gets more YouTube hits: that or the brawl.

gph
10-06-2006, 11:00 AM
"We’ve got to make smart decisions on the court and off the court. We’ve got to be smarter as far as leading the young guys and watching what we do." -Stephen Jackson

naptown
10-06-2006, 11:02 AM
I'm not saying forget the facts in a legal sense or from the NBA disciplinary committee or from the Pacers front office.

I'm saying that most people think Stephen Jackson (and other Pacers) are reckless, juvenile, irresponsible thugs. You know, those people that boo him in Conseco and all the sports writers that question him continually.

I'm sure they are sitting around debating the finer points of whether he does or does not have the right to defend himself by shooting a gun in the air.

Mr. President,

They boo him for continually making bonehead plays on the court. Not because they think he is a reckless juvenile thug. If he played smart ball they would not boo him at all.

Now are the people that already hate Jax and Tins going to jump on this and blow it completely out of proportion before all the facts are released to the public..... why they already are.

Evan_The_Dude
10-06-2006, 11:04 AM
This thread is getting really stupid. Here's the freaking facts:

They were at a strip club at 3am where they had the right by every law, rule, etc. to be.

They were attacked according to witnesses and video and tried to leave (good judgement).

They were followed out, Jackson was punched in the face and run down by a car. Now, we're not talking about a .05lb cup hitting Ron Artest here. We're talking about a 4,000lb car hitting Jackson. That is life threatening and he could have easily been seriously injured or killed.

In self defense of someone attempting to kill him with a 4,000lb car, he fired some shots in the air to clear everyone away. I'd say that was pretty freakin smart. Most would have shot AT the people in the car.

The Pacers did nothing wrong AT ALL. None of them are in custody, none of them stand a chance at being charged for anything. This press will last for 2 days and will be forgotten nationally. The only people that'll still be talking about it is the people on this forum that love to fuel anything that has to do with Jackson or Tinsley.

Let me say it again. NONE OF THE PACERS WERE IN THE WRONG. What else is there to discuss here?

Mac_Daddy
10-06-2006, 11:07 AM
Mr. President,

They boo him for continually making bonehead plays on the court. Not because they think he is a reckless juvenile thug. If he played smart ball they would not boo him at all.

Now are the people that already hate Jax and Tins going to jump on this and blow it completely out of proportion before all the facts are released to the public..... why they already are.

Good point.

I'm pretty sure that if I just got jacked in the face and run over by a car, I would be inclined to retalliate. I think its kind of expected.

3rdStrike
10-06-2006, 11:08 AM
I'm saying that most people think Stephen Jackson (and other Pacers) are reckless, juvenile, irresponsible thugs. You know, those people that boo him in Conseco and all the sports writers that question him continually.



If he was averaging 18 ppg on 45% shooting and 38% from beyond the arc with like 5 rpg, instead of having a poor field goal percentage, arguing with the referees and arguing with the coach, the fans wouldn't boo. The writers wouldn't question him. Success is the bottom line.

Look how long Ron Artest was accepted in Indy. I'd wager he still is accepted by many Pacer fans. When he played, he played well. I'll say it again. Success is the bottom line.

Speed
10-06-2006, 11:08 AM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061006/SPORTS04/61006001



Police want to question three men involved in the incident.

One man is in his 20s and goes by the nickname “Dino,” Mount said. Dino is stocky, bald and was wearing a red and black cap with the letters “BB.”
Another man is his mid-20s goes by the nickname “Fingers,” Mount said. Fingers is short and has thin short hair. He also is disabled, with short arms and a thumb and two fingers on each hand, Mount said.

The third man is in his late 20s or early 30s, heavy set and bald, Mount said.
------


FINGERS!?!?!?? Are you kidding me, is this the definition of surreal?

Fingers=Chris Elliot from Scary Movie 2????

3rdStrike
10-06-2006, 11:10 AM
Well, after fourteen years of having some form of season tickets, including the last six seasons AFTER I moved out of Indy, I'd say that its a total shame the team continues to alienate long-time fans this way to where I would even consider dropping my tickets. Moving 200 miles away didn't stop me. But three straight years of embarassing incidents and no discipline whatsoever is about to stop me.



What do you want the Pacers to do? Suspend Jackson? For being a victim? I agree with the poster who said don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's obvious you're jumping to conclusions based on personal biases. And if you have personal biases against members of your team's starting lineup, you need to find a new team. Period.

JayRedd
10-06-2006, 11:11 AM
Only other thing I have to say is....Thank god this happened during the start of the MLB Playoffs and before the NBA season started. Should help bury the story a little further.

naptown
10-06-2006, 11:12 AM
There's that should word again.

Must be a nice place you live in where people are judged by reality and actual facts instead of instant perception by the masses. And good waterfront condos still available?

I'm sure video evidence will only help uplift the Pacers franchise. Should be great to see which gets more YouTube hits: that or the brawl.

Mr. President,

I dont live my life by what the masses think or how they do things. I have the ability to think for myself and live by a higher standard. I personally would never stoop to their level.

Kegboy
10-06-2006, 11:12 AM
Well, after fourteen years of having some form of season tickets, including the last six seasons AFTER I moved out of Indy, I'd say that its a total shame the team continues to alienate long-time fans this way to where I would even consider dropping my tickets. Moving 200 miles away didn't stop me. But three straight years of embarassing incidents and no discipline whatsoever is about to stop me.

But thanks so much for your thoughtful response.

You realize this is just Karma getting back at you for leaving the balcony, don't you?

Traitor. :-p

Personally, I subscribe to the theory that the only one at fault is the guy who tried to run over our starting 2. But I have a question.

I believe Will already said that practice was probably at 1pm, which is due to the rules change that led to Rick dropping two-a-days in favor of one long practice. My question is, what happened to having a real training camp? We used to go places, then while we did switch to Conseco, I believe we had everyone stay at a hotel downtown and have a curfew. Then we switched to letting the guys stay at home.

Now, I don't care that this happened during training camp, all I care about is that everyone's alright. But can't the argument be made that training camp is about more than practice, it's about building chemistry, something we're in dire need of. But then, maybe this was a PS&E approved field trip.

Lastly, some have said this would have ended better if Jack didn't have a gun. How, exactly? Was the guy and his buds just gonna leave on their own and not make another attempt at vehicular manslaughter?

Doug
10-06-2006, 11:14 AM
Good point.

I'm pretty sure that if I just got jacked in the face and run over by a car, I would be inclined to retalliate. I think its kind of expected.

No. You are not allowed to retalliate. PERIOD. You are allowed to DEFEND YOURSELF.

Brian
10-06-2006, 11:16 AM
Damn...I wore my pacers jersey to work today.I was so proud..everyone was coming up to me asking me "you really love the pacers,dont know?".

Then I come home to this...While we dont know all the details...either way it is not good whenever guns are involved.

Unclebuck
10-06-2006, 11:16 AM
They can do a lot of things.

In this case, they went to a strip club in a part of town which is known for violence.

The fact that they got caught up in some of the violence is a direct result of being stupid.

I can go to 42nd and College at 2 AM tomorrow morning and decide to take a walk to the Steak and Shake on Keystone. It's perfectly legal and I have a right to do so. If I get mugged (90% likely) on the way - or never get there because I end up in the hospital or morgue (probably about 10% likely) are you going to say none of that's my fault?

Doing stupid crap can get you in trouble. They did stupid crap - not many strip clubs are going to be in a gated community but there are plenty in better parts of town than that. Anybody with a brain knows that place has dealers and pimps in it. You want to hang with that crowd, this is what you get.


Wait a minute, did I ever say they should have been there, no of course not. I wished everyone of the players went to church every day, tried to be perfect citizens and never got into any trouble off the court. But that is not realistic.

Wy do all the arguments about these types of things turn into posters putting words in other posters mouths. I don't understand it. Of course it was stupid for them to be there

JayRedd
10-06-2006, 11:17 AM
Mr. President,

Thanks for the clever belittlement of my posts. It added a lot to the discussion.

Doug
10-06-2006, 11:18 AM
Slightly OT: The random shuffle on my iPod just pulled up Saturday Night Special by Lynyrd Skynyrd.

naptown
10-06-2006, 11:22 AM
Mr. President,

I am not trying to belittle you. It is just good hearted ribbing. If I was trying to belittle it would not be so low keyed.

ChicagoJ
10-06-2006, 11:22 AM
Let me say it again. NONE OF THE PACERS WERE IN THE WRONG. What else is there to discuss here?

Wrong?

Depends on your defininion of wrong.

As adults, and as US citizens, they have the right to the pursuit of happiness. If their definintion of "pursuit of happiness" is a strip club in a really tough part of town at 3am (with weapons, with drugs), then as I said above, more power to them. Natuarally, if you go out looking for trouble, sometimes it finds you. And that's a shame, and I'm glad they got out without injuries (or worse).

But as multi-million dollar athletes participating in a training camp for a team advertising that its trying to clean up its image "on and off the court", there's no way to describe this decision as anything other than stupid and wrong.

They have the right to be stupid. But just because they have the right to be stupid doesn't mean that we can't complain about thier stupid choices.

Sure, they had the the right to do what they did, but that doesn't make their decisions right.

I can understand why people woud defend their right to make stupid choices, but let's not confuse that with their right to make good/ the right choices, which they did not do, by virtue of where they were in the first place.

Kegboy
10-06-2006, 11:23 AM
Slightly OT: The random shuffle on my iPod just pulled up Saturday Night Special by Lynyrd Skynyrd.

:laugh:

The uniform in your avatar reminds me, would people rather they have gotten taser'd by cops at Tiki Bob's instead? No guns involved, not a strip club, and it's right next to beautiful Circle Centre. Yes, that would have been much better. :rolleyes:

Moses
10-06-2006, 11:24 AM
All I've seen in this thread is narrow minded people who think Athletes are morally perfect. I would have done the same thing as Jackson in that situation.

gph
10-06-2006, 11:28 AM
This thread is getting really stupid. Here's the freaking facts:

They were at a strip club at 3am where they had the right by every law, rule, etc. to be.

They were attacked according to witnesses and video and tried to leave (good judgement).

They were followed out, Jackson was punched in the face and run down by a car. Now, we're not talking about a .05lb cup hitting Ron Artest here. We're talking about a 4,000lb car hitting Jackson. That is life threatening and he could have easily been seriously injured or killed.

In self defense of someone attempting to kill him with a 4,000lb car, he fired some shots in the air to clear everyone away. I'd say that was pretty freakin smart. Most would have shot AT the people in the car.

The Pacers did nothing wrong AT ALL. None of them are in custody, none of them stand a chance at being charged for anything. This press will last for 2 days and will be forgotten nationally. The only people that'll still be talking about it is the people on this forum that love to fuel anything that has to do with Jackson or Tinsley.

Let me say it again. NONE OF THE PACERS WERE IN THE WRONG. What else is there to discuss here?

I guess we could discuss how all four of the Pacers were in the wrong. We could start with the easy thing...weed in Tinsley's car. Illegal and clearly wrong. His weed? Debatable. His car. Yes.

We could certainly discuss how it was wrong to fire a gun. Yes, even into the air because bullets do come down and hit things. I would be very surprised if he wasn't charged for discharging a weapon.

Clearly, we know that it was wrong for Daniels to have a gun in his car. As mentioned in the articles, he was licensed, but for Florida. Last time I checked, 38th street wasn't sunny Florida.

Those are the legal points where yes, they were in the wrong.

As for the morality, or common sense of the situation, debate all you want.

Doug
10-06-2006, 11:29 AM
All I've seen in this thread is narrow minded people who think Athletes are morally perfect. I would have done the same thing as Jackson in that situation.

If that's all you've seen in this thread, then you are looking at it through your own version of rose-color glasses - you are only seeing what you want to see.

Slick Pinkham
10-06-2006, 11:32 AM
All I've seen in this thread is narrow minded people who think Athletes are morally perfect. I would have done the same thing as Jackson in that situation.

Not many if any are debating that.

The issue is why they put themselves in that situation.

They have every right to hang out in rough parts of the city at 3AM and we have every right to call them stupid for doing so, when the whole theme of their employers' PR campaign is that we are staring over fresh and we will have players our fans can be proud of.

Jay said it perfectly a few posts up.

Maybe they can't be punished for stupidly. Stupid ain't illegal. They can however be criticized for it.

Roy Munson
10-06-2006, 11:33 AM
Wrong?



They have the right to be stupid. But just because they have the right to be stupid doesn't mean that we can't complain about thier stupid choices.



I also think the Pacers have the right to expect a level of responsibility from their employees. And in this case, where these players have demonstrated bad judgement and irresponsibility, the team should impose some kind of penalty. If they don't, it will disappoint a large number of Pacer fans.

naptownmenace
10-06-2006, 11:34 AM
Talk about bodyguards, seems like you never seen these guys up close...

I have and Jack, Snap, and Quis are all really skinny guys. Tinsley has a little size on him but he's not very big. They should definitely get at least one if not two bodyguards when they hit the strip clubs. It'll be worth it.

Unclebuck
10-06-2006, 11:34 AM
What part of this is really bothering everyone. I want to know what part of this is bothering you the most. Don't cop out and say everything.

Guns being fired

Weed being found (I thought most of you wanted it legalized)

Players being out of bed at 3:00 AM

Players being at a strip club

3rdStrike
10-06-2006, 11:34 AM
let's not confuse that with their right to make good/ the right choices, which they did not do, by virtue of where they were in the first place.


Now you're just being overly self-righteous. It is your opinion that going to a strip club is wrong. That's your opinion. That doesn't make them guilty of anything, except in your brain. I find it hard to believe that you're a sports fan if you're so bothered by athletes going to strip clubs. News flash: the majority of them do.

These aren't girl scouts, they're young, wealthy athletes. They're allowed to enjoy themselves, and that has nothing to do with character.

Moses
10-06-2006, 11:34 AM
If that's all you've seen in this thread, then you are looking at it through your own version of rose-color glasses - you are only seeing what you want to see.
Then my rose-colored glasses must be a realistic point of view. I am asking people to look at it realistically here. What would any of us have done?

What athlete hasn't been to a strip club? People are acting like they just committed murder here.

JayRedd
10-06-2006, 11:37 AM
What part of this is really bothering everyone. I want to know what part of this is bothering you the most. Don't cop out and say everything.

Guns being fired

Weed being found (I thought most of you wanted it legalized)

Players being out of bed at 3:00 AM

Players being at a strip club

Option E) That another ridiculous, embarrassing, Pacer-related fiasco is in the news

ajbry
10-06-2006, 11:37 AM
The sheer hypocricy of some of you is just astounding.

JO has never been to a strip club late at night?
Harrington has never been to a strip club late at night?

If you were a wealthy professional athlete, loathed by plenty - and were punched in the face and then RAN OVER by a car - you wouldn't attempt to scare off the assiliants with a liscensed gun?

What is wrong with you people? The only Pacer who violated a law here was Tinsley, and nobody seems to care.

Jack did not hurt anyone. His attackers certainly attempted to hurt him.

jjbjjbjjb
10-06-2006, 11:38 AM
What part of this is really bothering everyone. I want to know what part of this is bothering you the most. Don't cop out and say everything.

Guns being fired

Weed being found (I thought most of you wanted it legalized)

Players being out of bed at 3:00 AM

Players being at a strip club

#1 and #4. It's not even close, the other two are nothing.

ChicagoJ
10-06-2006, 11:39 AM
Now you're just being overly self-righteous. It is your opinion that going to a strip club is wrong. That's your opinion. That doesn't make them guilty of anything, except in your brain. I find it hard to believe that you're a sports fan if you're so bothered by athletes going to strip clubs. News flash: the majority of them do.

What? Where did I ever say that going to a strip club is wrong.

My wife would insist that if *I* went to a strip club, it would be wrong.

I'm referring to being at 38th and Georgetown at 3am.

But thanks so much for putting words in my mouth.

mildlysane
10-06-2006, 11:42 AM
Questions:
1. Why did no one go to jail for the weed? ANY other citizen in Indy would have gone downtown.

2. Were they drinking? If so, were breathalyzers used before they were allowed to DRIVE away from the scene?

3. Why were their cars seached, if they were the victims?

4. Will/Should the NBA drug test all of them immediately?

naptown
10-06-2006, 11:44 AM
Wrong?

Depends on your defininion of wrong.

As adults, and as US citizens, they have the right to the pursuit of happiness. If their definintion of "pursuit of happiness" is a strip club in a really tough part of town at 3am (with weapons, with drugs), then as I said above, more power to them. Natuarally, if you go out looking for trouble, sometimes it finds you. And that's a shame, and I'm glad they got out without injuries (or worse).

But as multi-million dollar athletes participating in a training camp for a team advertising that its trying to clean up its image "on and off the court", there's no way to describe this decision as anything other than stupid and wrong.

They have the right to be stupid. But just because they have the right to be stupid doesn't mean that we can't complain about thier stupid choices.

Sure, they had the the right to do what they did, but that doesn't make their decisions right.

I can understand why people woud defend their right to make stupid choices, but let's not confuse that with their right to make good/ the right choices, which they did not do, by virtue of where they were in the first place.

See Jay this is exactly what I have had a problem with in this whole thread. There is no right or wrong here. Because in this case it is all very subjective. And none of us as individuals have the right to project our individual perceptions of right and wrong on any other human being. Although for some reason most people do seem to think they have the right to force their beliefs on others and judge others based on their beliefs.

What we have here is a case of good and bad decisions. This had nothing to do with right and wrong. The players made poor decisions to put themselves in a position that could turn ugly. But that is all they did. Make a poor decision at a bad time.

Los Angeles
10-06-2006, 11:45 AM
I think that a one good can come from this: management's hand is now forced to deal with both Tinsley and Jackson immediately. No waiting for the perfect deal, no waiting for the stock to go up before selling.

I'm utterly disgusted in the distraction that this causes. We've had enough distractions.

Doug
10-06-2006, 11:45 AM
Then my rose-colored glasses must be a realistic point of view. I am asking people to look at it realistically here. What would any of us have done?

What athlete hasn't been to a strip club? People are acting like they just committed murder here.

The issue is that this is yet another embarrassment for the Pacer franchise, after we have been PROMISED by TPTB all summer that this team would clean up its act. That these types of things were behind us. That we, as fans, could be PROUD of this team.

And the fact that it involves some of "the usual suspects" just makes it worse.

This incident would be nothing if it weren't for the accumlated history of the past couple of years.

As it is, it's one more data point that this team is still ****ed up.

Evan_The_Dude
10-06-2006, 11:47 AM
I think if there was a poll for basketball players 'How many are at a club of any kind at 3am', most of the people in this thread would be quite surprised. Hell, when I was living in Oakland, Ca. I can't even count how many time's I've run into Warriors players and players in town with other teams at 3-4am.

Hell, in Al Harrington's time with Atlanta, I'm sure he's been to a strip club or two.

Strip clubs and professional athletes are often like peanut butter and jelly.

ChicagoJ
10-06-2006, 11:48 AM
What do you want the Pacers to do? Suspend Jackson? For being a victim? I agree with the poster who said don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's obvious you're jumping to conclusions based on personal biases. And if you have personal biases against members of your team's starting lineup, you need to find a new team. Period.

Thanks for your insight. But why should I find a new team? I may be lots of things, but I'm not a bandwagon jumper. I'm loyal to my teams.

I'm still an IU football fan. I just don't watch college football any more. Well, I watched the first half of last week's game, and I remembered why I don't watch any more. Ouch.

I'm just about to the point where I'm not going to watch professional basketball anymore because the team I want to care about has become the laughing stock of the entire league.

I'm not jumping to any conclusions - these guys put themselves into a bad situation (and since you don't seem to understand my definition of a bad situation, it involves guns, marijuana, and a seedy establishment at 38th & Georgetown at 3am) in the first place and what happened once the trouble started does not matter to me.

These guys probably won't get charged, and if they do they'll likely be found innocent. I have not accused them of doing anything illegal. Just foolish. And I'm tired of cheering for a team of fools.

Unclebuck
10-06-2006, 11:50 AM
I'm just about to the point where I'm not going to watch professional basketball anymore because the team I want to care about has become the laughing stock of the entire league.




That hasn't happened, nor will it. You are overreacting now.

naptownmenace
10-06-2006, 11:50 AM
What part of this is really bothering everyone. I want to know what part of this is bothering you the most. Don't cop out and say everything.

Guns being fired

Weed being found (I thought most of you wanted it legalized)

Players being out of bed at 3:00 AM

Players being at a strip club

Who had the weed? I missed that part of the story.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that it was Tinsley. If so, that means he'll probably be suspended for the first 4 or 5 games of the season, ala Jason Williams. If it's him, add that to the list of why he's a blight on this team.

Unclebuck
10-06-2006, 11:52 AM
I'm utterly disgusted in the distraction that this causes. We've had enough distractions.


Distraction to the fans - yes, to the media - yes, but I don't believe it will be a distraction to the other players.

Los Angeles
10-06-2006, 11:52 AM
These guys probably won't get charged, and if they do they'll likely be found innocent. I have not accused them of doing anything illegal. Just foolish. And I'm tired of cheering for a team of fools.

:ding:

Unclebuck
10-06-2006, 11:53 AM
Who had the weed? I missed that part of the story.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that it was Tinsley. If so, that means he'll probably be suspended for the first 4 or 5 games of the season, ala Jason Williams. If it's him, add that to the list of why he's a blight on this team.

Indystar is saying it was found in Tinsley's car. Not sure if they all drove separately, or all came in JT's car, so we don't know for sure whose weed it was

Evan_The_Dude
10-06-2006, 11:54 AM
What part of this is really bothering everyone. I want to know what part of this is bothering you the most. Don't cop out and say everything.

Guns being fired

Weed being found (I thought most of you wanted it legalized)

Players being out of bed at 3:00 AM

Players being at a strip club

The weed part, but hardly that. They said they found a small amount of weed in Tinsley's car, but it couldn't be linked to an individual person. In other words, he could have had a friend in his car and that friend could have had some pot on him, and he could have dropped a bit out of his pocket. I'm only saying that because I've been in that situation and didn't know my friend had weed on him (I don't smoke PERIOD).

I'm not making excuses, but it needs to be a larger amount to be linked to an individual person. Otherwise, it could have just as easily been on the bottom of his shoe.

However I would recommend that the Pacers give him the pee test.

....Or maybe Tinsley's new chef put weed in the brownies....

AesopRockOn
10-06-2006, 11:55 AM
Are there any strip clubs that are in "nice" neighborhoods? (Just wondering)
What does happen to Tinsley since the cops presumably didn't have a warrant but have announced the discovery of narcotics?

I really hope that the fight wasn't sparked by Fingers' sensitivity or Dino hahahahahahaha. Sorry. Everything taken into context, I think that being out so late is the worst thing but obviously ESPN with its hard hitting, unbiased reporting sways the story a little. The truth is that being up late in bad parts of town sometimes isn't the greatest idea but in the city, that **** is just going to happen. You have to be ready for whatever and try to keep a low profile. I think overall they dealt with the situation pretty well, avoiding illegalities. However, after a long night at the clubs, you don't perform very well the next day. For the people living in the city, how dangerous/scary is it in those types of late night situations?

Note: I'm really glad people stopped advocating cutting all of the players involved unless it was supposed to be a sick, tasteless joke.

Unclebuck
10-06-2006, 11:55 AM
The issue is that this is yet another embarrassment for the Pacer franchise, after we have been PROMISED by TPTB all summer that this team would clean up its act. That these types of things were behind us. That we, as fans, could be PROUD of this team.

And the fact that it involves some of "the usual suspects" just makes it worse.




Wait a minute, has "this type of thing" happened before.

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 11:57 AM
What part of this is really bothering everyone. I want to know what part of this is bothering you the most. Don't cop out and say everything.

Guns being fired

Weed being found (I thought most of you wanted it legalized)

Players being out of bed at 3:00 AM

Players being at a strip club

Players being idiots.

If you go to a bar in a rough part of town that is frequented by criminals then you should anticipate trouble.

Now I don't know what goes on there now. I haven't been in that place in about 6 years and never went there that often. But even back then word was that if you wanted to get blown you could slip a few bucks to one of the guys sitting adjacent to the far right stage as you walked in, step outside and in a few minutes a girl would meet you at your car.

Word was that if you wanted to buy dope - and I don't know if that meant weed, x, cocaine or heroin - you could get that done either behind the club, in the bathroom, or behind where lap dances were given.

If you walk into a place like that, don't be shocked if you find trouble - particularly when for at least some of that crowd, getting in an altercation with what they see as a candy-*** rich NBA player who decided to slum it for a night will enhance their stature among the crowd they hang with.

That's the kind of place where they decided to spend their free time. Not the worst place in Indy but not anything that will ever wind up in the city's Tourism brochure either.

Do I have a problem with it? Only because when I go home for Thanksgiving I will again have to listen to people asking me why the Pacers are a bunch of thugs and why the team likes to have criminals on the roster. I can think of better ways to spend my time.

It doesn't do much for the city's rep either but I don't live there.

Those guys were stupid. They're lucky it didn't turn out that they were terminally stupid.

Doug
10-06-2006, 11:58 AM
Wait a minute, has "this type of thing" happened before.

By "this type of thing" I mean embarrassments to the franchise - the brawl, ron-ron, etc.

Los Angeles
10-06-2006, 11:59 AM
Distraction to the fans - yes, to the media - yes, but I don't believe it will be a distraction to the other players.

So when the players are in the locker room and they should be talking about basketball, and instead they are talking about possible criminal charges, that isn't a distraction?

Listen, I've played plenty of sports and all it takes is one guy to break up with his girlfreind for you to have an "off" practice. Death in the family = "off" week or two. Ambulance goes to your house? Firestorm.

How can 20% of your teambeing involved in a violent incident like this = no distraction on the court? You can't cash that position in a bank. It's forfeit.

Unclebuck
10-06-2006, 12:00 PM
I think all strip clubs should be shut down.

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 12:02 PM
Are there any strip clubs that are in "nice" neighborhoods? (Just wondering)

There are strip clubs in Indy in much nicer neighborhoods than that.

I haven't been in that place in quite some time. As strip clubs go it wasn't the worst but far from the best either - and that whole area's been going downhill for a while.

Used to be you could go to Lafayette Square Mall and not have to worry about getting shot in the parking lot. Now people get shot there in the middle of the afternoon and apparently for no reason.

naptown
10-06-2006, 12:03 PM
We could start with the easy thing...weed in Tinsley's car. Illegal and clearly wrong. His weed? Debatable. His car. Yes.

Illegal, yes. "Wrong"? That of course would vary depending on who you ask.


We could certainly discuss how it was wrong to fire a gun. Yes, even into the air because bullets do come down and hit things. I would be very surprised if he wasn't charged for discharging a weapon.

Why is it "wrong" to fire a gun to protect yourself? Nope, he wasnt charged because he fired it legally.


Clearly, we know that it was wrong for Daniels to have a gun in his car. As mentioned in the articles, he was licensed, but for Florida. Last time I checked, 38th street wasn't sunny Florida.

Clearly, you dont know gun laws. Many States honor other States gun permits. Obviously Indiana honors Florida's or he would have been charged for illegal possession of a hand gun. Many people go to Florida to get gun permits because they are accepted in more States than any other State's gun permits.


Those are the legal points where yes, they were in the wrong.

So other than the weed you were incorrect on every legal point.

Unclebuck
10-06-2006, 12:06 PM
So when the players are in the locker room and they should be talking about basketball, and instead they are talking about possible criminal charges, that isn't a distraction?

Listen, I've played plenty of sports and all it takes is one guy to break up with his girlfreind for you to have an "off" practice. Death in the family = "off" week or two. Ambulance goes to your house? Firestorm.

How can 20% of your teambeing involved in a violent incident like this = no distraction on the court? You can't cash that position in a bank. It's forfeit.

This will blow over quickly. Assuming we know all there is to know. Yes there will be a few questions, but this isn't the type of thing that the media will ask about every day, and between the players this sin't that big of a deal.

This is a thing that fans really hate but among the players it isn't that big of a deal.

Los Angeles
10-06-2006, 12:06 PM
By the way, this is the neighborhood I grew up in!

:woot:

Los Angeles
10-06-2006, 12:07 PM
This will blow over quickly. Assuming we know all there is to know. Yes there will be a few questions, but this isn't the type of thing that the media will ask about every day, and between the players this sin't that big of a deal.

I honestly hope you're right.

Skaut_Ech
10-06-2006, 12:07 PM
Okay, first of all......

:spitout::lolchair::lol:

Most of you overwhlemingly said this season is a clean slate and were willing to forgive this team of all past transgressions.. I was in the very small minority who said they have to win me over, I forgive nothing...now this happens. :laugh:

I'm sorry. All the heartfelt pleas in the media...the marketing campaign...Donnie and Larry begging us with puppy dogs eyes to come back...and then this happens.

Come on, it's pretty damn funny! :laugh:

First of all, I guessed what happened before the details were even in. (I know more is to come) Let me tell you guys a few things:

1.) I used to work security at Club Rio. It's not a dive. It's not a rough crowd. It's not in a "bad neighborhood." Just a run of the mill, strip club. Matter of fact, I never had any problems there. This isn't Sodom and Gammorah's playhouse. Pretty run of the mill.

2.) Should they have been carrying guns? I'm glad they were. And that they were licensed to carry them. Constitutional right to carry them and a smart idea given their profession. As I've told you guys before, I've hung out with athletes and as much adulation as they get, they also get their fair share of crap and people antagonizing them and guys trying to "test" them. Good for them.

3.) Can you shoot a gun at someone for hitting you with a car? No. Sorry, but no. Like Doug said, you can use a gun to defend yourself, but not to retaliate. If a car was comig at him and he fired at it becasue his life was in danger, he can do that. If you're hit by a car and you shoot at it as it drives away, no. Firing the gun in the air? Not cool. That bullet has to come down somewhere. I can tell you that on New Year's Eve, we take a ton of reports from people who have random shots that were fired in the air, come down and hit their homes. Guns are for defense. Period.

4.) Should the players have been at a strip club? Given the current marketing campaign, I gotta say "no." Horribly poor judgement. As Jay said,

"They have the right to be stupid. But just because they have the right to be stupid doesn't mean that we can't complain about thier stupid choices.

"Sure, they had the the right to do what they did, but that doesn't make their decisions right.

I can understand why people woud defend their right to make stupid choices, but let's not confuse that with their right to make good/ the right choices, which they did not do, by virtue of where they were in the first place."

Perception is everything. A bunch of black athletes in a predominently conservative, white city, involved in an incident, while carrying guns....phew.

They had every right to be there and I pass no moral judgement on them. I just wonder if at some point, they could have diffused a potential altercation by simply leaving.

Another thought that came to me is their bar tab. Is the media going to bring up a the potential fact that the players were possily going to drink and drive. They were at an adult establishment. They serve adult beverages there. Were the players drinking cokes all night? I wonder if a bar tab will surface in the media?


*******************


It's unfortunate that this happened and not passing judgement, but based upon the facts as they appear right now, the only blame I can see is that highly visible athletes in a small city were in a public place where people would pass judgement during a time when the organization is trying to win fans back over. Just not mature thinking.

The Pacers strike me as victims in this deal and my biggest fault with, other than their choice of entertainment, given the current climate in the organization, is Jackson's decision to use his gun as it appears he may have. I'm all for people carrying guns if needed, but I'm also unflinchingly for knowing HOW to use a gun and WHEN to use a gun.

I made a post a while back on continuum of force and when you can use a gun and when you can use deadly force. (You can look it up.) Anyone who carrying a gun, should be shoooled on the legalities on when you can use it, just like law enforcement.

This is just a case of poor decisonsmaking by Pacer players. Aren't we used to that by now? :sigh:

naptown
10-06-2006, 12:08 PM
I think all strip clubs should be shut down.

Spoken like a true American!!! God forbid consenting adults should be able to do what they want.

ChicagoJ
10-06-2006, 12:09 PM
See Jay this is exactly what I have had a problem with in this whole thread. There is no right or wrong here. Because in this case it is all very subjective. And none of us as individuals have the right to project our individual perceptions of right and wrong on any other human being. Although for some reason most people do seem to think they have the right to force their beliefs on others and judge others based on their beliefs.

What we have here is a case of good and bad decisions. This had nothing to do with right and wrong. The players made poor decisions to put themselves in a position that could turn ugly. But that is all they did. Make a poor decision at a bad time.

Hold on, I've been careful to not make personal morality judgments here. I'm basing my view of right and wrong (or more properly, making a bad decision) on the fact that these guys put "the team" at risk (in many ways) by making individual decisions about how they could have a good time.

I'm not a fan of any individual players, but of the team that wears the jersey that says "Pacers". That's the team that continues to damage its own reputation because of stunts like this one.

I'm tired of supporting a team with this little discipline. When my buddy replied via email, he said,


Bird has to be going nuts

My thought was, where is this lack of discipline coming from? The front office, coaches, or just the rebellious players. Regardless, in light of the ad campaign that they were going to clean up their act on and off the court, even if there was nothing criminal and it was just a series of lapses of judgment... well, this team has a lot of "lapses of judgment" issues in its recent past and it doesn't seem to be learning from them. Is the "buck" ever going to stop with someone at the Pacers?

But as long as we fans continue to make excuses for them, buy tickets and jerseys, support them/ defend their actions, then that is the team we as fans deserve.

What's wrong with holding the team we care for to a higher standard? What's wrong with demanding the team replace its undisciplined players with habitually poor judgment?

gph
10-06-2006, 12:09 PM
What part of this is really bothering everyone. I want to know what part of this is bothering you the most. Don't cop out and say everything.

Guns being fired

Weed being found (I thought most of you wanted it legalized)

Players being out of bed at 3:00 AM

Players being at a strip club

That isn't a cop out, that is the truth. Two things ultimately bother me a small amount more than the others. One, the extremely immature and poor decision making on the part of the four players. Jackson has just finished saying on Monday that players need to make smarter on and off court decisions. This would be an example of that. Two, you don't fire a gun unless your life is in imminent danger. No one yet knows the details of how the event unfolded. Did he fire after the car drove away? Did the car get thrown in reverse? Did he hobble to his car to get the gun? If shooting was an option, what about ducking back into the club and calling police? What about jumping in his vehicle?

I don't know, none of us know yet. What I do know is that being in that situation in the first place bothers me.

</p:colorscheme> §

Jermaniac
10-06-2006, 12:11 PM
Self defense is all I'm going to stay. All of you *removed* saying something about Jack should have kept his cool dont got a backbone, he got hit in the face and they tryed to run him over by a car, all of them had permits for their guns and none of them got arrested. They got attacked and they acted in self defense. End of story.

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 12:12 PM
By the way, this is the neighborhood I grew up in!

:woot:

So - what you're saying is that it's a good place to be FROM.

gilpdawg
10-06-2006, 12:13 PM
That's crap.

1. He's at a titty bar at 3 AM in the morning and has training camp the next day (along with Tinsley, Daniels, and Hunter).

2. Three of the four Pacers had guns in their car.

I don't remember reading where Peyton Manning or Chris Hinton ever had felt it was necessary to shoot (at) anyone. Reggie Miller or Rik Smits for that matter. Does Peyton carry a gun? I doubt it. Because he doesn't go places he may need it. Like a titty bar.

Strike One for Jackson-the Brawl
Strike Two for Jackson-lack of respect shown in public for Coach Carlisle
Strike Three for Jackson-being at a titty bar at 3 PM during training camp.
I've been at PT's until 3 AM before. Does that make me a bad person too? You guys need to get the sand out of your vaginas. Probably 70% of the pro athletes in this town frequent "titty bars" even the beloved Colts.

ajbry
10-06-2006, 12:13 PM
Marc Stein: (12:12 PM ET ) Pacers are practicing this afternoon and the team announced a few minutes ago that the four guys involved (Jackson, Tinsley, Daniels and Snap Hunter) will not be available for interviews. But I took that to mean that they will be practicing. We'll see.

From his ESPN chat transcript, just a couple minutes ago.

travmil
10-06-2006, 12:15 PM
3.) Can you shoot a gun at someone for hitting you with a car? No. Sorry, but no. Like Doug said, you can use a gun to defend yourself, but not to retaliate. If a car was comig at him and he fired at it becasue his life was in danger, he can do that. If you're hit by a car and you shoot at it as it drives away, no. Firing the gun in the air? Not cool.

I gotta call B.S. on this one. If he discharged the gun in an effort to make sure the driver didn't attempt to hit him again, then he is defending himself. Nobody knows what's in the police report, how do you know that when he stood up the driver didn't lurch toward him to hit him again? Is he justified in his actions then? Where would you prefer that he had fired the gun? Into the ground? Would you prefer that he had not fired the gun at all? He might be laying in a hospital bed with a career ending injury if he had done it that way. In my mind he defended himself. He'd already been physically assaulted TWICE, once with a vehicle which I think we can all reasonably assume is with deadly intent. How can you expect him to believe that it wouldn't have happened a third time had he not used his gun?

Unclebuck
10-06-2006, 12:17 PM
Spoken like a true American!!! God forbid consenting adults should be able to do what they want.


That is how I believe. God forbid I have a right to my opinion

MagicRat
10-06-2006, 12:17 PM
3.) Can you shoot a gun at someone for hitting you with a car? No. Sorry, but no. Like Doug said, you can use a gun to defend yourself, but not to retaliate. If a car was comig at him and he fired at it becasue his life was in danger, he can do that. If you're hit by a car and you shoot at it as it drives away, no. Firing the gun in the air? Not cool. That bullet has to come down somewhere. I can tell you that on New Year's Eve, we take a ton of reports from people who have random shots that were fired in the air, come down and hit their homes. Guns are for defense. Period.

From the Star:

One of the men punched Jackson in the mouth and then got into a vehicle and ran into him, police said.

“He was hit in the mouth,” Mount said. “He was bloodied up pretty good.”

The attackers fled after Jackson fired his handgun. Police do not know if anyone was injured or if the bullets struck the man’s vehicle.

*************************

From that description, it sounds like only one of the other dudes was in the car that hit him, leaving others somewhere nearby.

If he fires the gun into the air to scare them off, is that reasonable?

BlueNGold
10-06-2006, 12:21 PM
Jack will get off because he was attacked with a deadly weapon (a car) and acted in self defense. It is not illegal to fire a gun at someone trying to kill you. However, you have to go to great lengths to defend this idiot after all of his antics.

The Pacers are screwed exactly like they were with Artest. This is a PR nightmare for the Pacers at a horrible time. Who thinks Bonzi would have been there last night? Thank God we did not get him.

Yes, the franchise has been damaged. The Pacers will now be lumped in with the Portland Jailblazers and they will fully deserve the tag.

The Pacers probably had an opportunity to unload Jack and decided not to. Another very poor decision.

ChicagoJ
10-06-2006, 12:24 PM
That hasn't happened, nor will it. You are overreacting now.

Which part, me giving up on professional basketball (yes, that's hard to believe) or the Pacers becoming the league's laughing stock?

Because I got to tell you, sitting in an office in Chicago with a Terrible Towel and a Pacers Rally Towel from the '04 playoffs proudly displayed, I've had to put up with a lot of heckling today.

Sirius
10-06-2006, 12:26 PM
If he fires the gun into the air to scare them off, is that reasonable?

Yea, sounds like a good idea to me. Probably one of the more responsible and effective ways to end the conflict if thats all he did. At this point I dont really blame any of them all that much other than putting themselves in the situation...but Im definitely glad that neither jermaine or al were there bc at least they still have pretty clean images.

Skaut_Ech
10-06-2006, 12:27 PM
I gotta call B.S. on this one. If he discharged the gun in an effort to make sure the driver didn't attempt to hit him again, then he is defending himself. Nobody knows what's in the police report, how do you know that when he stood up the driver didn't lurch toward him to hit him again? Is he justified in his actions then? Where would you prefer that he had fired the gun? Into the ground? Would you prefer that he had not fired the gun at all? He might be laying in a hospital bed with a career ending injury if he had done it that way. In my mind he defended himself. He'd already been physically assaulted TWICE, once with a vehicle which I think we can all reasonably assume is with deadly intent. How can you expect him to believe that it wouldn't have happened a third time had he not used his gun?

You can call BS on this one, but a major in Criminal Justice at I.U. , 20 years of being a police detective and my uncle and two of my cousins being lawyers gives me a little bit of insight on the legalities of firing a gun.

Sure you can fire at someone if they're going to run over you again. Like I said "If a car was coming at him and he fired at it because his life was in danger, he can do that." I was pretty clear.If you fire a gun, your life better be in danger and you'd better be shooting AT the danger. (Not in the air, at the ground, etc.)

Los Angeles
10-06-2006, 12:28 PM
So - what you're saying is that it's a good place to be FROM.

I turned out OK.

Wait - I take that back. :laugh:

I've lived in Chicago and LA and spent months in Atlanta, Philly, Dallas, New York, San Francisco and the list goes on. The area north of speedway doesn't really register on the spectum of "bad neighborhoods." especially when you compare it to the near north side.

Drugs? Violence? Crime? Unemployment? Larger than normal uneducated portion of population? Sure, it has all those. But I had no problem walking to school every day, other than getting my *** kicked every now and again by kids a lot bigger than me.

What hurt the community the most was the lack of any sense of community pride. It just always felt hollow and depressing - but it's no Humblodt Park or Compton. It's simply "neither here nor there."

gph
10-06-2006, 12:28 PM
Illegal, yes. "Wrong"? That of course would vary depending on who you ask.



Why is it "wrong" to fire a gun to protect yourself? Nope, he wasnt charged because he fired it legally.



Clearly, you dont know gun laws. Many States honor other States gun permits. Obviously Indiana honors Florida's or he would have been charged for illegal possession of a hand gun. Many people go to Florida to get gun permits because they are accepted in more States than any other State's gun permits.



So other than the weed you were incorrect on every legal point.


Yes, yes, I am an idiot and you are a beacon of insight. You are the big man.

Reality though is that Indiana's gun law states that other gun permits will be recognized as long as the holder of the permit isn't a resident of Indiana. Given that he was traded over the summer, it is certainly possible that he isn't using Indiana as his residence. That point is up in the air.

But, as for discharging, give me a break. Look for a citation at the least.

grace
10-06-2006, 12:29 PM
That hasn't happened, nor will it. You are overreacting now.

You know UB you really need to stop calling people out when they threaten not to watch the Pacers any more. Maybe in a week or two Jay would change his mind, but then he's going to remember "UB said I'd cave. I have to stick to my guns because no way in hell am I going to let him think he's right."



Distraction to the fans - yes, to the media - yes, but I don't believe it will be a distraction to the other players.

What do you mean no distraction? There are 14 other guys on the team who are thinking "WTF? I'm not good enough to go clubbing in Jax and his posse?" Dissension city.

naptown
10-06-2006, 12:40 PM
Hold on, I've been careful to not make personal morality judgments here. I'm basing my view of right and wrong (or more properly, making a bad decision) on the fact that these guys put "the team" at risk (in many ways) by making individual decisions about how they could have a good time.

Thank you for clarifying that is was more about making bad decisions.


My thought was, where is this lack of discipline coming from? The front office, coaches, or just the rebellious players.

First off, these are grown men Jay. All you can do is make it as clear as possible what is expected from them. After that it is up to the adult to do the right thing and do what is expected of them. Also the Pacers are only allowed to do so much based on the CBA. Their hands are tied to a degree.


What's wrong with holding the team we care for to a higher standard? What's wrong with demanding the team replace its undisciplined players with habitually poor judgment?

You really think they didnt try to move Jax and Tins??? I am sure that is a much easier accomplishment said than done. You are an intelligent person Jay, it really surprises me when I hear you say stuff like that when you know how hard (or impossible) it is to move baggage like Jax and Tins in todays NBA. You know we cant trade them with the years they have left on their contracts. No one is willing to take that risk and we certainly cant just swallow their contracts. And the CBA limits how much punishment they can levy out.

It sucks, but unless we find a sucker we are stuck. So what do you do? You try your best to change the person. That is all you can do. Ron had trade value, these guys dont, not with the years remaining on their contracts.

jjbjjbjjb
10-06-2006, 12:42 PM
The weed part

Please tell me you are not serious.

If tomorrow the gummint came along and banned the white man's alcohol and tobacco, would that be the worst part of an incident involving four guys out at a strip club at 3am, one of whom fires a gun in the air, and one of which had a can of PBR in the back seat?

naptown
10-06-2006, 12:47 PM
That is how I believe. God forbid I have a right to my opinion

You can have your opinion.... but when your opinion amounts to restricting the freedoms of others I personally think it is very UN-American.

But your willingness to trample the freedoms of others based on what you personally like and dislike really comes as no surprise. Americans sense of freedom is as pale as the white strip on the Flag.

AesopRockOn
10-06-2006, 12:47 PM
You can call BS on this one, but a major in Criminal Justice at I.U. , 20 years of being a police detective and my uncle and two of my cousins being lawyers gives me a little bit of insight on the legalities of firing a gun.

Sure you can fire at someone if they're going to run over you again. Like I said "If a car was coming at him and he fired at it because his life was in danger, he can do that." I was pretty clear.If you fire a gun, your life better be in danger and you'd better be shooting AT the danger. (Not in the air, at the ground, etc.)

So if he fires at the driver and fatally wounds him with a straight headshot, that is better than shooting into the air to scare the attacker away. I love lawyers.

Kstat
10-06-2006, 12:50 PM
:laugh: the white man's alcohol and tobacco?

travmil
10-06-2006, 12:50 PM
You can call BS on this one, but a major in Criminal Justice at I.U. , 20 years of being a police detective and my uncle and two of my cousins being lawyers gives me a little bit of insight on the legalities of firing a gun.

Sure you can fire at someone if they're going to run over you again. Like I said "If a car was coming at him and he fired at it because his life was in danger, he can do that." I was pretty clear.If you fire a gun, your life better be in danger and you'd better be shooting AT the danger. (Not in the air, at the ground, etc.)

I certainly respect your education and experience as a law enforcement officer. But you're trained to keep your cool in bad situations. I'm not making an excuse, but Jackson is not. As I said he'd already been assaulted twice, and it's clear he thought his life was in danger.

He had three choices: 1) Do nothing. 2) Shoot at the car. 3) Shoot into the air.

I think we can reasonably assume what the outcomes of 1 and 2 would have been. His actions, while admittedly not a perfect solution, ended the incident as peacefully as could be expected under the circumstances, and were justified. I know the legalities of discharging the weapon are questionable, but frankly, the other two alternatives had MUCH higher chances of ending in death.

Doug
10-06-2006, 12:53 PM
Just a reminder: The discussions about the pros and cons of weed and/or strip clubs and whether or not they should be legal are probably not "on topic" in this thread.

Skaut_Ech
10-06-2006, 12:53 PM
So if he fires at the driver and fatally wounds him with a straight headshot, that is better than shooting into the air to scare the attacker away. I love lawyers.

Yes!

What do you not get?

Shooting a gun in the air is criminal recklessness. Like I said, the bullet has to come down somewhere. Let's say it hits a baby in it's crib (I've seen it happen) and kills it. What is Stephen going to say? "Um, I was trying to scare someone away?"

It's a GUN not a noise maker.

Part of defending your life is the possiblity of taking a life. That's why it's called "SELF DEFENSE". :dunce: :idea:

spazzxb
10-06-2006, 12:54 PM
Yeah lets not trade Jax, BRILLIENT! I wonder how much more ****ing drama this team can bring upon itself?! Well whatever it is I'm sure they'll find it.


This isn't Jacksons fault. Heck I would assume some haters on these boards could be considered prime suspects. This makes Indianapolis look bad ,however Jackson is the victim of an assault. Don't attack steven about this, when the fault lies in a Jackson hater somewhere.

Kstat
10-06-2006, 12:56 PM
Yes!

What do you not get?

Shooting a gun in the air is criminal recklessness. Like I said, the bullet has to come down somewhere. Let's say it hits a baby in it's crib (I've seen it happen) and kills it. What is Stephen going to say? "Um, I was trying to scare someone away?"

It's a GUN not a noise maker.

Part of defending your life is the possiblity of taking a life. That's why it's called "SELF DEFENSE". :dunce: :idea:


This point I actually do agree with.

Although very rare, there are instances where a gun fired unto the air randomly has killed/paralyzed people before.

Firing a weapon into the air in a public area should be grounds for reckless endangerment.

As for THe Pacers being where they were or being armed (legally), I don't have a big problem with it. I just don't understand why Jackson felt he had to start shooting....

Then again, I've never been a Jackson fan, so I'm biased. I think he LIKES to fight and show off how tough he is.

Mr. Pink
10-06-2006, 12:57 PM
:lurk: Anyone else want some?

FrenchConnection
10-06-2006, 12:57 PM
Yes!

What do you not get?

Shooting a gun in the air is criminal recklessness. Like I said, the bullet has to come down somewhere. Let's say it hits a baby in it's crib (I've seen it happen) and kills it. What is Stephen going to say? "Um, I was trying to scare someone away?"

It's a GUN not a noise maker.

Part of defending your life is the possiblity of taking a life. That's why it's called "SELF DEFENSE". :dunce: :idea:

You would know more on this than I would, but if I understand Indiana law correctly, you have to shoot to kill if you shoot in self defense. For instance, you cannot shoot someone in the foot or leg to disable them so that you can get away, you have to shoot for the chest or head in order to kill them.

travmil
10-06-2006, 12:59 PM
Yes!

What do you not get?

Shooting a gun in the air is criminal recklessness. Like I said, the bullet has to come down somewhere. Let's say it hits a baby in it's crib (I've seen it happen) and kills it. What is Stephen going to say? "Um, I was trying to scare someone away?"

It's a GUN not a noise maker.

Part of defending your life is the possiblity of taking a life. That's why it's called "SELF DEFENSE". :dunce: :idea:

Okay I can buy that. However, you can't project what you would do in a similar situation onto Stephen because he doesn't have the benefit of the same training and experience as you. I will say this: If you're right and Stephen does get charged with criminal recklessness, he's damned lucky that his probation from the brawl ended a week ago.

Frank Slade
10-06-2006, 01:05 PM
Pacers release statement about shooting incident

Oct 6, 2006 12:33 PM EDT

Rich Van Wyk/Eyewitness News


Indianapolis - The Indiana Pacers have released a statement on an overnight incident in the parking lot of a west side strip club involving four of the team's players.

"The incident Friday morning involving some of our players is currently being reviewed by the proper authorities. All parties involved are cooperating with the authorities. Since this is an ongoing review of the matters that took place Friday morning, the Pacers will have no further comment at this time."

Meantime, police are looking into exactly what went on in the parking lot of a west side Indianapolis strip club overnight. The incident ended with a Pacers player firing his handgun.


It happened at around 3:00 am, which is closing time at Club Rio, a strip club. The manager estimates 70 to 100 customers were headed to the parking lot.

That's were police say four Pacers players - Jamal Tinsley, Marquis Daniels, Jimmie Snap Hunter and Steven Jackson - ran into trouble and tried to walk away.

"Steven Jackson was struck in the mouth. We don't know who it was. An individual tried to run Steven Jackson over with the car. He was struck with the car, going over the hood and back on the ground," said Sgt. Matthew Mount.

Investigators say Jackson had a 9mm handgun and fired four or five times as the car fled. They aren't certain whether he shot at the car or into the air. There were no reports of anyone hit by gunfire.

"They fled the scene so we have no way of knowing if they were struck by any of the shots," said Sgt. Mount.

Police found blood near Jackson's Bentley sedan. One of the Pacer's star players was injured in the fight and the collision.

"We don't believe he was seriously injured. He apparently has some kind of leg injury. He was limping," said Sgt. Mount.

Jackson refused medical treatment and instead called a team trainer.

Police say Jackson has a valid permit to carry a gun. Jamaal Tinsley and Marquis Daniels each had a handgun in their cars. Tinsely has an Indiana gun permit, and Daniels has a permit issued in Florida.

Officers found a small amount of marijuana in the passenger side door of Pacer point guard Jamaal Tinsley's car, police said. Officers could not determine the car's driver or to whom the marijuana belonged, so no arrests were made.

Police questioned witnesses as well as the players. They plan to turn the evidence over the prosecutor's office to determine whether any criminal charges are warranted.

Police are looking for three men in connection with the altercation. All are described as being in their late twenties. One man goes by the nickname of "Deano," and is described as stocky and bald. Another goes by the name "Fingers," and has only a thumb and finger on each hand.

WTHR.com (http://www.wthr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5505223)

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 01:06 PM
This may deserve its own thread but I'll ask it here:

How much preferential treatment should Pacer players receive? We all know it's happened in the past.

Let me offer this quote from the IndyStar article: http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061006/SPORTS04/61006001

A small amount of marijuana was found in Jamaal Tinsley’s car, Mount said, but no one was arrested because the drug can not be linked to any particular person.

“There’s no way of telling whose it was, hence no arrests,” Mount said.

Huh? They found it in Tinsley's car.

You mean if they find weed in my house I can't be arrested because they have no idea whose it is?

FWIW, I know someone who was arrested for possession because, for whatever reason, his brother found a plant by the side of the road and tossed it in the trunk - then forgot about it. If you knew the brother this would not surprise you.

Several months later this guy's driving and gets pulled over. The officer asks if he can search the car. The guy says yes. The arrest followed.

I'm trying to run the above statement through my brain without coming up with, "The officer on the spot called it in and was told to ignore it because of who it was." Haven't been able to.

Kstat
10-06-2006, 01:08 PM
Well, if it was a deliberate assault with a car, you can't blame Jackson for firing his gun.

That said, he should have fired at the car, not into the air.

grace
10-06-2006, 01:14 PM
That's crap.

I don't remember reading where Peyton Manning or Chris Hinton ever had felt it was necessary to shoot (at) anyone. Reggie Miller or Rik Smits for that matter. Does Peyton carry a gun? I doubt it. Because he doesn't go places he may need it. Like a titty bar.

I remember Tony Saragoosa taking a gun into a White Castle. I remember Jack Trudeau getting into a fight outside a bar. And then there's the whole Mustafah Muhammad and Fred Lane thing.

naptownmenace
10-06-2006, 01:15 PM
Indystar is saying it was found in Tinsley's car. Not sure if they all drove separately, or all came in JT's car, so we don't know for sure whose weed it was

Well, he and Jack could've rode together but they said that Tinsley and Quis had a gun in each of their cars. I get the feeling that Tins, Jack, and Quis drove separately. Snap probably rode with someone considering he's new to the team and he's not a definite lock to make the team - I doubt he has car yet.

Irregardless, it was in Tinsley's car and unless Snap or Jack takes the blame, Tinsley gets left holding the bag (pun intended).

Ralph Snart
10-06-2006, 01:15 PM
So, as a funny side story to this, I work in event management here in Indy. One of my buddies just called, his company won the bid on doing the Pacers Corporate Sponsorship Dinner, which was scheduled for tonight. It's a reception and dinner for the Pacer's corporate sponsors and executive box owners. It's an event where it is mandatory that all players attend, and be on their best most genil behaviour.

So guess what the theme was going to be...."20 Gangsters." All of the players were going to dress up in Zoot suits, and carry "Tommy Gun" shaped fountain pins. On top of that, they were going to have an old Edsel on the stage, with a dummy leaning out the window holding a Tommy-Gun, and make the whole theme of the party very "Chicago Gangster."

So now, the event management company and the Pacers are scrambling to change the theme. Talk about awful timing.

SoupIsGood
10-06-2006, 01:17 PM
That hasn't happened, nor will it. You are overreacting now.


Uh, it may have already happened.

"Pacers are the new Blazers!" comments aren't exactly a rarity anymore.

Los Angeles
10-06-2006, 01:17 PM
he's damned lucky that his probation from the brawl ended a week ago.

Is that true? How do we know this?

spazzxb
10-06-2006, 01:17 PM
What part of this is really bothering everyone. I want to know what part of this is bothering you the most. Don't cop out and say everything.

Guns being fired

Weed being found (I thought most of you wanted it legalized)

Players being out of bed at 3:00 AM

Players being at a strip club


I would say the fact that some lowlife tried to kill SJ in Indy disturbs me the most.

Kstat
10-06-2006, 01:18 PM
that's a horrible idea, overnight incident or not.

Skaut_Ech
10-06-2006, 01:19 PM
A small amount of marijuana was found in Jamaal Tinsley’s car, Mount said, but no one was arrested because the drug can not be linked to any particular person.

“There’s no way of telling whose it was, hence no arrests,” Mount said.

Huh? They found it in Tinsley's car.

You mean if they find weed in my house I can't be arrested because they have no idea whose it is?

FWIW, I know someone who was arrested for possession because, for whatever reason, his brother found a plant by the side of the road and tossed it in the trunk - then forgot about it. If you knew the brother this would not surprise you.

Several months later this guy's driving and gets pulled over. The officer asks if he can search the car. The guy says yes. The arrest followed.



I think can clear this up for you.

The pendulum has realy swung towards only charging cases we have a STRONG possibility of winning.

As to Jamaal, he could always argue that someone left it there, he didn't know it was there, etc. It wasn't on his person and since a car is mobile and anyone could have been in the car, it's not enough to win the case.

As to the guy with pot in the truck, a little different. Not everyone has acess to a trunk. Typically, only the car owner has access to the truck and passengers aren't going in and out of a trunk. It's more reasonable to charge in that case because of limited access by others.

As to pot in a house, a house is not mobile, so that cuts down on outside access, plus a home is typically a place where you spend the majority of your time. To say that you didn't know it was in your own home is more of a stretch as a defense. If nothing else, a charge would be made with the caveat that you tell us whom it does belong to and we'll drop the charges. Unless you live in Grand Central station, a reasonable request.


So, as a funny side story to this, I work in event management here in Indy. One of my buddies just called, his company won the bid on doing the Pacers Corporate Sponsorship Dinner, which was scheduled for tonight. It's a reception and dinner for the Pacer's corporate sponsors and executive box owners. It's an event where it is mandatory that all players attend, and be on their best most genil behaviour.

So guess what the theme was going to be...."20 Gangsters." All of the players were going to dress up in Zoot suits, and carry "Tommy Gun" shaped fountain pins. On top of that, they were going to have an old Edsel on the stage, with a dummy leaning out the window holding a Tommy-Gun, and make the whole theme of the party very "Chicago Gangster."

So now, the event management company and the Pacers are scrambling to change the theme. Talk about awful timing.

OMG...this just gets funnier and funnier!!! The pull the video ad on the website, now this!! LOL!!

Ralph Snart
10-06-2006, 01:19 PM
I would say the fact that some lowlife tried to kill SJ in Indy disturbs me the most.

And one of them only had a thumb and finger on each hand. Did "Fingers" do the driving or the punching?

Frank Slade
10-06-2006, 01:21 PM
Uh, it may have already happened.

"Pacers are the new Blazers!" comments aren't exactly a rarity anymore.

Dan Patrick already opened his radio show with the teaser:
"How the Pacers took the Gentlemen out of Gentlemen's club.." :mad:

naptownmenace
10-06-2006, 01:22 PM
Well, if it was a deliberate assault with a car, you can't blame Jackson for firing his gun.

That said, he should have fired at the car, not into the air.

That's just the story he gave the police. I betcha $50 he did fire at the car (that's a sucker bet, btw).

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 01:24 PM
Dan Patrick already opened his radio show with the teaser:
"How the Pacers took the Gentlemen out of Gentlemen's club.." :mad:

LOL - IIRC, Club Rio's sign on 38th street is subtitled, "Gentlemen's Showclub."

Always preferred Babe's or PT's myself anyway.

Knucklehead Warrior
10-06-2006, 01:25 PM
Thanks to Skaut and Jay who seem "to get it".
Apparently we're in store for yet another season of this, the knuckleheads have seen their shadows.

naptown
10-06-2006, 01:26 PM
Irregardless, it was in Tinsley's car and unless Snap or Jack takes the blame, Tinsley gets left holding the bag (pun intended).

Everyone is just assuming it was just them 4 that came to the strip joint together. All 3 vehicles mentioned could have had 4 or more people in each of them. It is very possible that they had a a few friends riding with them that dont play pro ball.

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 01:26 PM
That's just the story he gave the police. I betcha $50 he did fire at the car (that's a sucker bet, btw).

We'll see if the tape caught it. There's also an ATM nearby - I assume it has a security camera. I just can't remember if it's right next to Babe's or Rio's.

As I've said, it's been a while.

spazzxb
10-06-2006, 01:28 PM
You would know more on this than I would, but if I understand Indiana law correctly, you have to shoot to kill if you shoot in self defense. For instance, you cannot shoot someone in the foot or leg to disable them so that you can get away, you have to shoot for the chest or head in order to kill them.


So the law is dumb, what else is new.

Speed
10-06-2006, 01:29 PM
probation over?

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061006/SPORTS04/61006029

File copy from Sept. 24, 2005

ROCHESTER HILLS, Mich. -- District court judge Julie Nicholson sentenced Indiana Pacers Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson to a year of probation, 60 hours of community service and fined them $250 each after they pleaded no contest to misdemeanor assault and battery charges Friday.

JayRedd
10-06-2006, 01:34 PM
Dan Patrick already opened his radio show with the teaser:
"How the Pacers took the Gentlemen out of Gentlemen's club.." :mad:

When do you think the "Pacers: Outside the Lines" will air?

Tonight? Or tomorrow?

Do you think Rick Reilly has time to change his column for next week's issue?

How many questions do you think Sport's Guy will answer about this in his next mailbag?

We've been a laughingstock....Not we're approaching Mike Tyson, "there's nothing that would surprise me anymore" territory.