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View Full Version : 'Throw-in' from Mavericks becomes a keeper for Pacers



Jose Slaughter
10-05-2006, 03:14 AM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061005/SPORTS04/610050478/1088

'Throw-in' from Mavericks becomes a keeper for Pacers

By Mark Montieth
mark.montieth@indystar.com

Josh Powell was assumed by many to be merely a warm body to help make the salaries match when the Indiana Pacers acquired him in a trade with Dallas in July.

Before training camp began, however, he already had established himself as much more than that in the eyes of the front office members who hung out in the Conseco Fieldhouse practice gymnasium in August and September.

"It was clear to us that this guy is definitely a roster player in this league and very well could be a rotation player," coach Rick Carlisle said.

The Pacers weren't allowed the luxury of idle admiration, however. Powell's contract became guaranteed Sunday, forcing them to back their optimism with a commitment of nearly $750,000, his salary for this season.

Carlisle describes that as an easy decision. The Pacers will have to trade or release three players to get to the league limit of 15 heading into the season, but the 6-9 Powell seems safe.

The Pacers made a similar commitment to small forward Rawle Marshall, the other "throw-in" to the deal that brought Darrell Armstrong from the Mavericks for Anthony Johnson. Marshall, whose contract became guaranteed in August, also could stick with the team, but Powell appears to have a better chance because he plays a position of greater need.

Armstrong, who played one season with Powell in Dallas, compares him to Ben Wallace, although Powell shoots better. He proved that in the 37 games he played last season, hitting 80 percent of his 45 free throw attempts.
Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh draws a link to Miami's Udonis Haslem. Jermaine O'Neal, who played against Powell in several pickup games at the Fieldhouse, goes a step further.

"He's a better Udonis Haslem," O'Neal said. "He's a better offensive guy. He brings that same toughness, but he's a little taller and blocks a lot of shots."
Powell and Haslem are close friends. They once had the same agent, and worked out together in Clearwater, Fla., in the summer of 2003. They've kept in close contact since.

Neither minds the comparison.

"He can definitely contribute in a major way to somebody's team," Haslem said via telephone. "He's a real good athlete, gets on the boards relentlessly, has the ability to become a great defender and can knock down the 17-footer."

Sound like someone the Pacers could use? Either O'Neal or Al Harrington will start at power forward this season, but a player like Powell could find an important backup role on a team seeking toughness.

"I like his intensity," O'Neal said. "I think I hit him in the face by accident with my elbow about every day (in summer workouts) and he just bounced back up and kept playing hard."

Powell, like Haslem, went undrafted out of college and played in Europe before signing with an NBA team. The difference is that Haslem played all four years at the University of Florida while Powell left North Carolina State after his sophomore season.

There's strong sentiment around the NBA that Powell probably would have been a first-round pick had he exhausted his college eligibility. That's what friends and family members encouraged him to do, but he has no regrets. Playing two seasons in Europe -- mostly in Italy -- helped both his game and his outlook.

"Even though I took a harder road, it made me a better person," said Powell, who was an honor roll student as a freshman at N.C. State.

"I've always been hungry and humble, but that made it more realistic. It's tough. You've got to be on the bus for five or six hours. You're not flying everywhere. You don't have a bunch of trainers taking care of you. It's a humbling situation. Guys over here don't know how good they have it."
He hopes to stick around long enough to remind them.

DEEman
10-05-2006, 03:47 AM
How come, if he is really that good, the mavs traded him this easy?

travmil
10-05-2006, 03:54 AM
How come, if he is really that good, the mavs traded him this easy?

I don't think the point of the article is that he's a great player, it's that he was considered a "throw in" type player that would never stick with the Pacers, and obviously came in and impressed them to the point that he has.

DEEman
10-05-2006, 04:05 AM
I don't think the point of the article is that he's a great player, it's that he was considered a "throw in" type player that would never stick with the Pacers, and obviously came in and impressed them to the point that he has.
Still, its quite strange that he obviosly is not 'throw in' quality (but better), but The MAvs traded that rotation player and a starter for our Groshere...Didnt they recognized the quality of Powell?

croz24
10-05-2006, 04:18 AM
pretty sure powell started for the mavs a few times last yr. also, i think it's pretty clear a darrell armstrong for anthony johnson trade straight up was unfair talent wise. the mavs probably had to throw in something of value to get the pacers to bite.

rexnom
10-05-2006, 06:09 AM
I like him. A lot actually. And when Jermaine O'Neal speaks highly of you, well, that's not a bad start. I think both him and Marshall are worth taking flyers on. Unfortunately, I think Greene is more crucial than Marshall, especially since we have Shawne Williams as another forward project in the wings.

BlueNGold
10-05-2006, 06:38 AM
I like the idea of him being compared to Haslem....and having some toughness...and blocking shots....and having some offense. We need that on this team. It will be nice to have a tough guy guarding JO in practices.

owl
10-05-2006, 07:03 AM
A Ben Wallace comparison was made in that article except he hits his free
throws :0

Hicks
10-05-2006, 07:04 AM
They included them because Anthony Johnson is now a better player than Armstrong, and will be in the league longer. Plus I doubt they had any plans of using either player any time soon.

Anthem
10-05-2006, 08:55 AM
Carlisle describes that as an easy decision. The Pacers will have to trade or release three players to get to the league limit of 15 heading into the season, but the 6-9 Powell seems safe.

The Pacers made a similar commitment to small forward Rawle Marshall, the other "throw-in" to the deal that brought Darrell Armstrong from the Mavericks for Anthony Johnson. Marshall, whose contract became guaranteed in August, also could stick with the team, but Powell appears to have a better chance because he plays a position of greater need.
This is interesting. Nothing we haven't guessed, but as far as I know it hasn't been in print yet.

Speed
10-05-2006, 08:55 AM
I thought it was funny JO saying he's a better Haslim. Remember when Haslim tried to fight JO last year.

I think we really got the better in total out of our Dallas moves.

Austin was in the last year of his contract and is really at best a good guy off the bench who works hard and can stretch a defense, who is starting to get older, nothing against Austin, he is what he is.

Dallas thinks that AJ is a Defensive stopper. When they introduced him in Dallas they were asking him about guarding D Wade and such, I was incredulous. AJ is a good position defender and works at it, but I've never seen him anything close to a stopper. It will be interesting to see if AJ plays in Dallas at all, behind Devin Harris and Jason Terry, and how he feels about the culture there.

We got Armstrong who sounds like he hasn't shut up since he got off the plane, which is perfect for this team to keep things loose and fun.

Daniels, well who knows, but it seems like everytime he's been healthy and given minutes he's always produced really solid numbers, and he's 25.

Powell is really a bonus, he came into this the hard way, so he won't expect minutes or pout, he seems to work hard and is legitimate role player, which I think the team and the entire league lacks and covets, plus he's 23.

In two years, I would guess that Austin, AJ, and DA will all be done, either retired or the very last guy on the bench of some team for a veteran prescence. Powell and Daniels will probably at least be rotation guys, imo.

Speed
10-05-2006, 08:57 AM
This is interesting. Nothing we haven't guessed, but as far as I know it hasn't been in print yet.


Greene and Powell, unless a drastic injury happens, seem to be the odds on favorites, imo.

Can Edwards be a green jacket or park cars for the million dollars?

Skaut_Ech
10-05-2006, 09:13 AM
Still, its quite strange that he obviosly is not 'throw in' quality (but better), but The MAvs traded that rotation player and a starter for our Groshere...Didnt they recognized the quality of Powell?

Sure they did.

Like croz24 said, a straight up trade of Armstrong for Johnson isn't fair. There's a a six year age difference, with AJ being 32 and Darrell being 38. In order to make the trade fair, it would only make sense to add a promising player who's salary would make the trade possible.

As Hicks pointed out, they weren't going to use either player any time soon. They like to use the PF spot for guys like Van Horn, Austin or Dirk, guys who can, and will shoot the three. They seem to like spot up shotters at the PF spot. It wasn't that Powell wasn't a potentially good player, but with the system that Dallas plays, he may not have been the fit they were looking for.

rexnom
10-05-2006, 09:48 AM
Sure they did.

Like croz24 said, a straight up trade of Armstrong for Johnson isn't fair. There's a a six year age difference, with AJ being 32 and Darrell being 38. In order to make the trade fair, it would only make sense to add a promising player who's salary would make the trade possible.

As Hicks pointed out, they weren't going to use either player any time soon. They like to use the PF spot for guys like Van Horn, Austin or Dirk, guys who can, and will shoot the three. They seem to like spot up shotters at the PF spot. It wasn't that Powell wasn't a potentially good player, but with the system that Dallas plays, he may not have been the fit they were looking for.
Just wanted to defend my man Dirk here. He is far from a spot up shooter. Dirk probably has the most complete offensive game in basketball.

blanket
10-05-2006, 10:00 AM
If we keep Powell (and presumably Greene) over Marshall, I hope we can trade Marshall for a pick rather than just cut him.

Maybe a package of Marshall and the remainder of our trade exception from the AJ trade (about $1.5M) for a second round draft pick and a player with a non-guaranteed contract would work.

sweabs
10-05-2006, 10:03 AM
I have always wanted to keep Powell and Greene out of the remaining options. I've seen Powell play for Dallas and like his potential. He has a real aggressive mentality underneath the net which is something we need (even though he's a little undersized). What he lacks in size he makes up for in intensity...he pursues each rebound and I like that.

I really have no interest in Rawle Marshall. I had the chance to watch him in the summer league playing for Dallas in a couple games and he just seemed extremely raw. He has no set-position, and looked as though he had a lower basketball IQ than Bender did (no joke). He was a turnover waiting to happen.

RamBo_Lamar
10-05-2006, 10:07 AM
Tha report on Powell certainly is very encouraging - it sounds like he is a
pretty tough customer, not to mention a good free-throw shooter.

I wonder if TPTB have considered trying to persuede Darrell Armstrong to
go ahead and retire now, and making him an assistant coach, so they can
open one more roster spot for one these promising young talents we have
competing in camp.

?

indygeezer
10-05-2006, 10:07 AM
If he's anywhere NEAR as good as Haslem I'll be ecstatic watching him play....maye even forget about a certain DD.

MagicRat
10-05-2006, 10:13 AM
Ben and Udonis? Why couldn't they compare him to someone I like?

I'm going with "He's like a better Adrian Caldwell."

Speed
10-05-2006, 10:16 AM
Tha report on Powell certainly is very encouraging - it sounds like he is a
pretty tough customer, not to mention a good free-throw shooter.

I wonder if TPTB have considered trying to persuede Darrell Armstrong to
go ahead and retire now, and making him an assistant coach, so they can
open one more roster spot for one these promising young talents we have
competing in camp.

?


I thought the exact same thing, it makes sense to me!!

rexnom
10-05-2006, 10:20 AM
This plan is so perfect it's retarded!

Jermaniac
10-05-2006, 11:06 AM
I f'ing told yall about Josh Powell everyone wanted Oreo Cookies and Rawle to make the team, I would love for Rawle to make the team but he isnt a need, a young dude who can play the 4 and the 5 is and can rebound is a need.

Proving once again why I'm Dat Dude.

Speed
10-05-2006, 11:16 AM
Proving once again why I'm Dat Dude.


This dude?

http://www.gofish.com/player.gfp?gfid=30-1020871&hid=2141213386


Just kidding Jerm, but a great video, imo :)

DisplacedKnick
10-05-2006, 12:04 PM
If he's anywhere NEAR as good as Haslem I'll be ecstatic watching him play....maye even forget about a certain DD.

All I can say is that based on JO's comment, if he has any plans for a career as a scout he should adjust his horizons.

I didn't worry about it but 3-4 days ago he was on channel 13 saying how this was the most talented Pacers team he'd ever been on.

I'm thinking to myself, "Ron Artest is gone, you have no shooters or ballhandlers other than a chronically injured player, and this is the most talent?"

If I was any Pacer player I'd be working from the standpoint of reducing expectations before the season starts. Nothing wrong with thinking that but keep it under wraps for now.

Powell may be extremely talented but I don't think I'd put him above the starting PF (and a perfect role player) on the NBA Champs just yet.

imawhat
10-05-2006, 12:47 PM
How come, if he is really that good, the mavs traded him this easy?


Dirk Nowitzki
Erik Dampier
Keith Van Horn/Austin Croshere
Desagna Diop


He wasn't going to play ahead of player with experience, so he's more valuable in a trade. I've seen it happen with several good players.

Heck, in Al Harrington's first year he was buried behind the same number of players, and he averaged 2.1 ppg and 1.9 rpg.

indygeezer
10-05-2006, 01:34 PM
All I can say is that based on JO's comment, if he has any plans for a career as a scout he should adjust his horizons.

I didn't worry about it but 3-4 days ago he was on channel 13 saying how this was the most talented Pacers team he'd ever been on.

I'm thinking to myself, "Ron Artest is gone, you have no shooters or ballhandlers other than a chronically injured player, and this is the most talent?"

If I was any Pacer player I'd be working from the standpoint of reducing expectations before the season starts. Nothing wrong with thinking that but keep it under wraps for now.

Powell may be extremely talented but I don't think I'd put him above the starting PF (and a perfect role player) on the NBA Champs just yet.

Actually, I've had much the same thoughts about JO's comments. Nothing against JO but he sounds like he's playing to the company's drummer. Then ya look at some of the players he's asked for in the past and ya kinda think it's a good thing he's getting paid alot to play so he doesn't have to work beyond retirement.

And don't hate on me that was said with a wink.

CableKC
10-05-2006, 01:46 PM
Other then the notion that Powell shouldn't be considered a "throw-in" as part of the trade....and that his contract is now guaranteed......does the article really say that Powell will fill the 14th or 15th spot?

When I first read the title......the term "keeper" implies that he's one of the players that we will keep for the 14th or 15th spot....which I am guessing is not the case.

Naptown_Seth
10-05-2006, 02:29 PM
When I first read the title......the term "keeper" implies that he's one of the players that we will keep for the 14th or 15th spot....which I am guessing is not the case.
That is the case, that's what most people here are saying and several have been before today - that the last 2 guys to make the 15 man will be Greene and Powell, with Marshall, Snap and Edwards cut (or maybe NBDL'd if possible).

The article goes on to imply that RC sees Powell moving into the top 10-11 on the team if he is getting into the rotation.


As for why let him go - same reason the Pacers "let" Primoz go in the exansion draft. It came down to him or Reggie and even at Reggie's age that was no kind of choice at all. You bite the bullet and let some promising talent go because you are already full up at the time.

Letting it happen != Liking it

Skaut_Ech
10-05-2006, 05:03 PM
Ben and Udonis? Why couldn't they compare him to someone I like?

I'm going with "He's like a better Adrian Caldwell."

Better than Adrian Caldwell?? Don't be dissing one of my favorite former Pacers!! Adrian was a man among children!! A beast!! A juggurnaut!!

*Sniff*

I miss Adrian.

!Pacers-Fan!
10-05-2006, 05:39 PM
Lets Keep Powell.