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View Full Version : Feeling better about Jack?



lumber man
10-04-2006, 06:40 PM
I am a big Stephan Jackson fan, so I was a little more forgiving than most about his barking at the refs. Most Pacer Fans I know were (or are) ready to run Him out of town, and I guess I can understand why. But, ever since this "It's up to Us" campaign has started along with His public apology, It seems like you can bring Him up in a conversation a little more and not get as much negative feedback around here. So, does that mean that some "anti-Jack" people are feeling a little bit better about Him and are willing to give Him another chance? Do more people feel that He could be a great asset to Our team than some did a month or so ago? (thanks in advance for the feedback.)

ajbry
10-04-2006, 07:02 PM
I don't care if Jack averages 0.1 PPG and 10285935.0 TPG per game, he's still my favorite player and a good guy.

Hopefully most Pacers fans find that they will give him another chance.

PacerMan
10-04-2006, 07:31 PM
they couldn't trade him so he's still here. He's a Pacer, so he gets some support and a very short leash. That's all.

lumber man
10-04-2006, 07:43 PM
they couldn't trade him so he's still here. He's a Pacer, so he gets some support and a very short leash. That's all.
That's a debatable opinion, but I was hoping that this wouldn't be another debate about Jackson. I was wondering if more people are starting to forgive a little more and actually might be looking forward to seeing if He will be a positive force or not.

aero
10-04-2006, 07:48 PM
they couldn't trade him so he's still here. He's a Pacer, so he gets some support and a very short leash. That's all.

indeed. thats how i feel as well.

CableKC
10-04-2006, 08:12 PM
\So, does that mean that some "anti-Jack" people are feeling a little bit better about Him and are willing to give Him another chance? Do more people feel that He could be a great asset to Our team than some did a month or so ago? (thanks in advance for the feedback.)

Weren't you pretty much asking for a debate on SJax when you posed this question ( much less any post about SJax )?

If not...and simply asking for a Yes or No answer....then I would guess that my answer would be Yes and No.

Its likely that you will get a similiar answer to what PacerMan said from at least some of the PD posers. My hope is that there were attempts to move SJax but TPTB did not get any offers that satisfied their asking price....so we are essentially stuck with him and therefore have to live with him.

I will admit that my opinion of SJax....based off of the offseason comments and the acquisition of Harrington ( thus shifting him to over to the 3rd scoring option ) and this new "up-tempo" offense...has slightly improved. He is said to be a better 3rd scoring option on a team.....he is durable...he is one of our few somewhat decent 3pt scorers.

But just like Carlisle, Tinsley, JONeal and Sarunas.....I'm giving SJax another chance...mainly cuz we have no choice and simply hope that he has truly worked on the negative aspects of his game that most of us don't like. But the second that he starts taking more FGA then Harrington.....becoming the 2nd scoring option on the team rather then the 3rd scoring option...and when he starts arguing with Refs again.....then my opinion will go from "living with SJax cuz we have no choice" to "wanting SJax traded...again".

lumber man
10-04-2006, 08:20 PM
CableKC:"I will admit that my opinion of SJax....based off of the offseason comments and the acquisition of Harrington ( thus shifting him to over to the 3rd scoring option ) and this new "up-tempo" offense...has slightly improved. He is said to be a better 3rd scoring option on a team.....he is durable...he is one of our few somewhat decent 3pt scorers."
I was just wondering if people had opinions such as this, nothing more.Thanks.

!Pacers-Fan!
10-04-2006, 08:26 PM
S-Jaxx was probably the best player in the pacers last season.
He played almost every game, and gave his best.

Moses
10-04-2006, 08:28 PM
My biggest beef with Jack was his mouth. He's a streaky shooter and I knew that when we got him from the Hawks, but I what I didn't realize we were getting was another jabbering idiot who spent half the game complaining of officiating. Not only that, it appears as though he actually scared Carlisle, in a sense, last season and Carlisle had no control over Jacks childish actions.

I feel better about Jack now and I will continue to feel better about him as long as he just plays the game. I expect a little arguing with the officials here and there because every player is guilty of it, but I don't want him not getting back on defense or refusing to come out of the game as the season progresses. I'm giving him another shot, and I'm sure many others are, simply because he is still here and we basically have to give him another shot. All this offseason propoganda has made me beleive in what he can do being the 3rd scoring option here.

lumber man
10-04-2006, 08:48 PM
My biggest beef with Jack was his mouth. He's a streaky shooter and I knew that when we got him from the Hawks, but I what I didn't realize we were getting was another jabbering idiot who spent half the game complaining of officiating. Not only that, it appears as though he actually scared Carlisle, in a sense, last season and Carlisle had no control over Jacks childish actions.

I feel better about Jack now and I will continue to feel better about him as long as he just plays the game. I expect a little arguing with the officials here and there because every player is guilty of it, but I don't want him not getting back on defense or refusing to come out of the game as the season progresses. I'm giving him another shot, and I'm sure many others are, simply because he is still here and we basically have to give him another shot. All this offseason propoganda has made me beleive in what he can do being the 3rd scoring option here.
That's what I was wondering, there was another thread about whether or not all of the propoganda was actually making people feel better about this season, I know that I am buying into to it. I guess this thread is the same, but just more focused on Jack.Thanks.

spreedom
10-04-2006, 08:57 PM
I am a big Stephan Jackson fan, so I was a little more forgiving than most about his barking at the refs. Most Pacer Fans I know were (or are) ready to run Him out of town, and I guess I can understand why. But, ever since this "It's up to Us" campaign has started along with His public apology, It seems like you can bring Him up in a conversation a little more and not get as much negative feedback around here. So, does that mean that some "anti-Jack" people are feeling a little bit better about Him and are willing to give Him another chance? Do more people feel that He could be a great asset to Our team than some did a month or so ago? (thanks in advance for the feedback.)


The fact that you keep capitalizing the "h" in pronouns when referring to Jack is disturbing.



I don't care if Jack averages 0.1 PPG and 10285935.0 TPG per game, he's still my favorite player and a good guy.

Hopefully most Pacers fans find that they will give him another chance.


A good guy? I personally think he was by far the biggest offender in the Detroit Massacre, and is probably the most vocal to the refs (and I mean that in a bad way) in almost the entire league.

lumber man
10-04-2006, 09:13 PM
The fact that you keep capitalizing the "h" in pronouns when referring to Jack is disturbing.





A good guy? I personally think he was by far the biggest offender in the Detroit Massacre, and is probably the most vocal to the refs (and I mean that in a bad way) in almost the entire league.
I actually thought that was the proper way to write it, (heck, I couldn't have even told you what a pronoun is.) Thanks for pointing that out. But again, I was just asking a question, there have been plenty of debates about this. So, I guess that you're (no caps, pronoun;) ) going with a big "NO" on this one.

Jumper
10-04-2006, 09:17 PM
A good guy? I personally think he was by far the biggest offender in the Detroit Massacre, and is probably the most vocal to the refs (and I mean that in a bad way) in almost the entire league.


Come on, thats is as biased a comment I have seen, need I mention Rasheed Wallace? They guy barks at the refs, so does U Haslem and a bunch of other guys out there. Jack is our whipping boy and will continue to be.

Oh and I am falling for the propoganda even though I know I shouldn't.

spazzxb
10-04-2006, 09:25 PM
they couldn't trade him so he's still here. He's a Pacer, so he gets some support and a very short leash. That's all.


People who use the "we couldn't trade" him excuse are simply avoiding the fact that the Pacers management didn't agree with their assesment on Jackson's value. I just want to tell all the all knowing backetball gurus who were so sure that tinsley and Jackson were the problem with this team(to the point of obsession), more qualified people think your wrong:-) . Does that make me wright in my observation that he was your scapegoat?)(maybe)

Pacesetter
10-04-2006, 09:33 PM
What excited me most was that he took the summer to spend with his family, and get back to his beginnings. He opened a new school in Port Arthur for children K-6th so they don't experience what he had to. It just seems he now places a greater emphasis on doing right, so he can influence others in the right way. I wish him well as he gets it going again!

I'll be cheering for him, that's for sure!

Go Steve! :cool:

vapacersfan
10-04-2006, 09:43 PM
People who use the "we couldn't trade" him excuse are simply avoiding the fact that the Pacers management didn't agree with their assesment on Jackson's value. I just want to tell all the all knowing backetball gurus who were so sure that tinsley and Jackson were the problem with this team(to the point of obsession), more qualified people think your wrong:-) . Does that make me wright in my observation that he was your scapegoat?)(maybe)

Wait, are you saying you know for a fact that TPTB did not shop Jax around?

Putnam
10-04-2006, 09:55 PM
I was always willing for Jackson to stop his bad conduct. I was always willing for him to stop huffing at the refs, slacking on defense, and arguing with teammates and coaches. I would have laid off Jackson at any point last season if he had shaped up. The reason I criticized him and wished for him to be traded all through the summer was that he never shaped up.

Now, Jackson is back in town and saying the right things. I'm absolutely willing for him to act right, and I am willing to respect him for right conduct and good play. I would be ashamed to hold the past against him if he is truly reformed. I'm willing to appreciate his durability and aggressiveness and his skills (which I have acknowledged many times) if he does not cancel them out with his own knuckleheadedness.

So, realistically, my attitude about Stephen Jackson hasn't changed at all.




I don't care if Jack averages 0.1 PPG and 10285935.0 TPG per game, he's still my favorite player and a good guy.

This recalls the Indiana congressman who backed Nixon all through the Watergate scandal, and, when shown incontrovertible evidence that the president was guiilty of crimes, said, "Don't confuse me with the facts. My mind is made up."

ABADays
10-04-2006, 10:07 PM
He's gotta show he can do what he said he would.

Los Angeles
10-04-2006, 10:15 PM
He's gotta show he can do what he said he would.

AMEN!

He has 82 games straight to prove himself. He makes it for the whole 82, and I might believe that he's committed to getting better.

PacerMan
10-04-2006, 10:27 PM
That's a debatable opinion, but I was hoping that this wouldn't be another debate about Jackson. I was wondering if more people are starting to forgive a little more and actually might be looking forward to seeing if He will be a positive force or not.

As is YOUR "opinion". You ask the freaking question! Duh.

Tom White
10-04-2006, 10:53 PM
Short answer to a long question.

I want him gone. Period.

JayRedd
10-04-2006, 10:53 PM
To me, it has nothing to do with forgiveness or a clean-slate or living up to apologies.

I, personally, just don't think he's all that great of a basketball player. Certainly, not good enough to illicit all the drastic opinions that he seems to receive from Pacers fans anyway.

He's a role player, IMO. No more, no less. And I still maintain that I'd rather he was a role player for another team.

Shack80
10-04-2006, 10:54 PM
Honestly i want Jax gone, he is not the kind of person I want on my favorite NBA team. Don't hate him, don't like him. his attitude is suck and he is a liability.

spazzxb
10-04-2006, 11:48 PM
Wait, are you saying you know for a fact that TPTB did not shop Jax around?


Not saying that at all, he could have been traded though. All I am sayiing is Steven is better than the haters will give him credit for.

ChicagoJ
10-04-2006, 11:58 PM
Unless he gets a much higher bballIQ very quickly, I can't imagine that he's actually capable of fixing his problems.

Lousy shot selection, turnover prone, too much time yelling at the refs, teammates, and coaches. He should be the team's fourth option, but I don't believe - in spite of him saying some of the right things - that he's really capable of accepting that role. He knows he can be "the man" in this league. For a lottery team. But not with JO, Al, and Danny. His job is to play a minor role and not get in their way.

I can think of at least sixty players I'd rather have at SG (and another sixty at SF) than him, including several players already on the Pacers roster. Although, Ron Artest is not on that long list. So its true, we could have somebody even worse than SJax.

spreedom
10-05-2006, 12:00 AM
SJax would probably be a pretty decent 6th man ala Jerry Stackhouse...

ajbry
10-05-2006, 12:00 AM
Damn Jay, did Jack singlehandedly ruin your life or something?

ChicagoJ
10-05-2006, 12:12 AM
No, I just don't think he's a very good basketball player (never have) AND I don't care for the attitude he's shown in the past.

I actually don't care if he cleans up his attitude or not. I have little faith in him playing the type of game I'd want a Pacers SG to play. If he played with his brain turned on, I wouldn't care how much he talked (just like I always knew Reggie spent too much time chirping at the officials but rarely felt compelled to complain about it.)

Naptown_Seth
10-05-2006, 12:53 AM
I agree with you Jay except that I have a little more faith in him and think he showed some improvement even last year, at least on things he could focus on (namely fighting with refs, which he stopped doing, swapping it for calm discussion, ie no techs).

He wants to be a team guy, a family guy, an "I got your back" guy. He just doesn't have the mental discipline it seems. I think he can get there, especially if he's in a steady, regular system that keeps his role a lot clearer. I think you have to look at the volitility of the situation the last 2 years when you see his inconsistant play.

He's not the mentally tough guy that keeps the team focused, he's the guy that is more sensitive to those problems (and I don't mean emotionally). He loses focus too easily to be in situations where things are always in flux.

Keep the situation stable, add in his apparent understanding of how disruptive he was the last 2 years, and I think there is plenty of reason to expect him to play a lot better this year, at least within his role.


And even if he does that and has a great attitude, there are some fans that I strongly suspect will still dislike Jack. Not all, not many of the critics around here, but a few just don't want to see him here anymore regardless of circumstances.

fwpacerfan
10-05-2006, 09:48 AM
My biggest problem w/SJax is his shot selection. I think he is a very good defender and one of the Pacers best 3 pt. shooters. He isn't afraid to take the ball to the hoop and he is one of the few durable players the team has.

He does bark at the officials too much, but not as much as the 'leader' of the team, JO, does. I think SJax gets a lot of negative publicity because of 11/19, and rightly so, but it doesn't change what he does on the court. I'm not dissappointed that he is still a Pacer and I think he may even thrive not having to be the 2nd scoring option all of the time.

Putnam
10-05-2006, 10:10 AM
My biggest problem w/SJax is his shot selection. I think he is a very good defender and one of the Pacers best 3 pt. shooters. He isn't afraid to take the ball to the hoop and he is one of the few durable players the team has.

He does bark at the officials too much, but not as much as the 'leader' of the team, JO, does. I think SJax gets a lot of negative publicity because of 11/19, and rightly so, but it doesn't change what he does on the court. I'm not dissappointed that he is still a Pacer and I think he may even thrive not having to be the 2nd scoring option all of the time.


So, fwpacerfan, you seem to be assuming that Jackson isn't going to change at all, and that we should expect the same guy this year that we had last year.

Bummer.

imawhat
10-05-2006, 01:07 PM
I have faith in him to turn around his attitude because he's had a good attitude in the past. It's the inconsistency and focus that I worry about. It's normal for players to have bad shooting games or to make bad decisions, but it's always possible to make up for that in other areas. I haven't seen Jackson stay focused enough to do that. I hope that he can, and the good news is that he's in a better situation this year to do so.

CableKC
10-05-2006, 01:57 PM
CableKC:"I will admit that my opinion of SJax....based off of the offseason comments and the acquisition of Harrington ( thus shifting him to over to the 3rd scoring option ) and this new "up-tempo" offense...has slightly improved. He is said to be a better 3rd scoring option on a team.....he is durable...he is one of our few somewhat decent 3pt scorers."
I was just wondering if people had opinions such as this, nothing more.Thanks.

Don't misread that the above statement is ALL I take SJax for.......these are his positives.....although considered important....I do not hold as much important as his negatives from the previous season ( as in arguing with Refs, poor shot selection, and whatever else that everyone dislikes about his game ). All the "negatives" are aspects of his game that he himself has to prove he can fix....on and off the court....which is something that I will not believe until I actually see him do it.

So...Yes...I am a little optimistic that the offseason changes could benefit SJax and therefore feel better about SJax...but my answer is mainly No...cuz I won't completely feel better about SJax until I see him translate his "words" into "actions"....which we all know is harder then it seems.

Beowulfas
10-05-2006, 02:13 PM
When You have some incurable disease - yes, after some time You should feel better.
So I guess the answer to the original quection is YES :d

D-BONE
10-05-2006, 10:02 PM
Only time will tell if Jack can be more positive in his influence and performance. I hope he can put his money where his mouth is. A productive and positive Jack, since he's here for the time being, will benefit us greatly regardless of one's opinion of him.

Now, I personally hope that there will be some other guys who also improve their attitude and play, such as JT and JO. While Jack certainly stands out as a lightning rod amongst Pacer's fans in areas like knuckleheadedness and low basketball IQ that are frequently rolled out here, IMO those two guys have consistently displayed similar tendencies the last couple seasons. In JT' case, at least when he's playing.

In other words, those three returning core elements have a lot to prove to me. I consider them all to be the residual parts of the problem. Although Jack appears to be the most serious or consistent offender, it will take all of them seriously buying into this alleged new positive, harmonic vibe for us to have any chance to exceed mediocrity. Hopefully, an entire off season and season opener without the albatross of Ron Ron will aid in this.

Diesel_81
10-05-2006, 11:17 PM
SJax would probably be a pretty decent 6th man ala Jerry Stackhouse...

Yep he would be excellent in that role if he bought into it which at this point who knows if he would. He could anchor that second unit from an offensive standpoint. Again he probably won't be happy starting if he's the 4th option behind (Oneal, Al and Danny) so let him come off the bench and let him do what he does best which is shoot, if he gets hot we keep riding him ,if he's off or yelling at the refs and being a distraction Carlisle can yank him out of there.

Pacesetter
10-06-2006, 09:17 AM
I was feeling alot better about jack, but now we know better.

Knucklehead Warrior
10-06-2006, 09:42 AM
:laugh: :laugh: :D :laugh: :rolleyes: :-o :-p :laugh: :censored:

PacerMan
10-06-2006, 12:53 PM
"As the Thread Turns"

Kstat
10-06-2006, 01:01 PM
I think Jackson is clearly a changed man. He deserves a 68th chance.

SoupIsGood
10-06-2006, 01:24 PM
OK, seirously, Jax and Tins need to be gone soon. All this stuff about trying to make the team enjoyable for the fans turns to straight BS if they aren't gone. Especially after stringing us along with the Ron thing LAST year.

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 01:29 PM
I don't know about the rest of them but if I'm Pacers management I HAVE to get rid of Jax - even if it comes down to releasing him for nothing.

The cumulative dumbassedness has piled too high with him.

Bball
10-06-2006, 01:43 PM
My biggest problem w/SJax is his shot selection.

You guys are slipping leaving this out there just waiting for a zinger!

-Bball ;)

Seed
10-06-2006, 02:04 PM
My biggest problem w/SJax is his shot selection.

Jax was just following his coach's advice: shoot when you feel hot.
Ah those girls in the Rio club.

ABADays
10-06-2006, 02:10 PM
There isn't an emoticom in existence right now that could convey my frustration at being dupped by this dumbass.

Seed
10-06-2006, 02:13 PM
There isn't an emoticom in existence right now that could convey my frustration at being dupped by this dumbass.
mmm.. yeah I guess they should add an emoticon of S-Jax and the pistol for these special events.

RWB
10-06-2006, 02:15 PM
At least give JAck credit. Unlike the VP he didn't shoot any of the other guys in the face.

Seed
10-06-2006, 02:17 PM
At least give JAck credit. Unlike the VP he didn't shoot any of the other guys in the face.
But that's cause he missed!!

grace
10-06-2006, 02:19 PM
Does anyone really think the Pacers haven't been entertaining offers to unload Jax and Tinsley? I think if they'd gotten a decent offer they would have taken it by now.

Look how long it took to get rid of Artest. What exactly did the Pacers get in return? If the Pacers unload Jax and Tinsley and get the same thing they got for Artest then they'll definately be a lottery team.

RWB
10-06-2006, 02:27 PM
I can't wait for FanJam. Apparently the first 5,000 fans will get free Bulletproof vests.

grace
10-06-2006, 03:04 PM
I can't wait for FanJam. Apparently the first 5,000 fans will get free Bulletproof vests.


...sponsored by Don's Guns.

Look on the bright side: it's new ad revenue for the team. :yes:

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 03:19 PM
...sponsored by Don's Guns.

Look on the bright side: it's new ad revenue for the team. :yes:

That was going to be my response to the question:

Q - Why did Jackson fire 5 shots?
A - He thought he'd been knocked into the Don's Guns indoor range

That IS still there isn't it?

PacerMan
10-06-2006, 03:19 PM
...sponsored by Don's Guns.

Look on the bright side: it's new ad revenue for the team. :yes:

Does Don still do their commercials? I remember him from the 70's? 80's? " I don't care about making money, I just LOVE to sell guns".

lumber man
10-06-2006, 04:34 PM
I can't wait for FanJam. Apparently the first 5,000 fans will get free Bulletproof vests.
man, i have been so disappointed in these 4 guys all day that i told myself that i wasn't going to the fanjam. i'm starting to feel a little bit better now, yeah i'll be there. i wonder if jack and jamaal will still be there or will donnie and larry think it's too soon to put them in front of the fans?

JayRedd
10-06-2006, 04:37 PM
Jax was just following his coach's advice: shoot when you feel hot.

It's always troubling to see Jax starting off the season with an 0 for 5 shooting night.

RWB
10-06-2006, 04:38 PM
It's always troubling to see Jax starting off the season with an 0 for 5 shooting night.


Nomination for post of the year right here friends....:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

AesopRockOn
10-06-2006, 04:42 PM
Not to take anything away from JayRedd, but it was kind of obvious.
I don't completely get DK's joke.

lumber man
10-06-2006, 06:15 PM
Not to take anything away from JayRedd, but it was kind of obvious.
I don't completely get DK's joke.
the shooting range must be very near to club rio. on a side note, i saw don at a colts game last year and he was looking alive and well.

ChicagoJ
10-06-2006, 06:17 PM
I can't wait for FanJam. Apparently the first 5,000 fans will get free Bulletproof vests.

I'd make the trip if they gave me a harmonica vest.

;)

Tom White
10-06-2006, 07:02 PM
Look how long it took to get rid of Artest. What exactly did the Pacers get in return? If the Pacers unload Jax and Tinsley and get the same thing they got for Artest then they'll definately be a lottery team.


Well Grace, I guess you could say that via Ron/Peja they got Harrington. If they could do that well talent-wise in return for Jackson/Tinsley, they would be alright.

JayRedd
10-06-2006, 07:08 PM
Well Grace, I guess you could say that via Ron/Peja they got Harrington. If they could do that well talent-wise in return for Jackson/Tinsley, they would be alright.

I'm guessing that there has to be some awful contract out there we could take in order to get someone to take on Jackson.

Possibilities that spring to mind
Jerome James
Rasho
DMiles
Marko Jaric

Lord Helmet
10-06-2006, 07:11 PM
I'm really sick of the dumb ****.

Actually, I have been since last year. But, I keep on giving them second chances.

We need Tins more than Jack, IMO, though.

DisplacedKnick
10-06-2006, 08:43 PM
the shooting range must be very near to club rio. on a side note, i saw don at a colts game last year and he was looking alive and well.

About a block away I think.