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View Full Version : Buying into it or not?



ABADays
10-04-2006, 11:51 AM
Based on today's story in the Star and information leading up to it, I was just curious if you are buying into the "new" Pacer attitude. All the right things have been said and on the surface all the right things have been done. Today's story was actually a very good one although it did seem to kind of direct us toward lower expectations.

I find myself actually looking forward to the new season. What do you all think?

Trader Joe
10-04-2006, 11:55 AM
My dad and I renewed our season tix for three more years. We drank the kool aid after Al signed and I haven't stopped sipping. If nothing else this team will be exciting again and we have young players that will hopefully play because they love the game.

pizza guy
10-04-2006, 11:57 AM
I think, with every passing day, every new article, all the new quotes, I'm buying into it more and more. While I'm not 100% convinced of new attitudes, I'm really excited about the up-coming season.

Isaac
10-04-2006, 12:16 PM
This is the strangest offseason for me. From about 94-2000 I was always excited and I knew I could expect great things. Prior to that I was a little bit too young to know enough about the team to have real "expectations". After 2000 I understood that we were in a re-building period and I just looked forward to watching the team play. With that said, I was very unhappy because I couldn't stand Isiah as our coach and I disliked Jalen very much. After we traded Jalen I got much more exicted and I felt very good going into the 03 playoffs. When we got beat by Boston I was extremely depressed, as much so as after the 98 season when we lost to the bulls and the 2000 finals. I know that may seem strange but I really thought that team had the championship parts. I hit a wall with my pacers loyalty. I just didn't think I could stand another season of Isiah and I was thrilled with the way the offseason turned out. The next 2 seasons I had championship expectations going in, and we all know how that turned out.

To sum this rambling up, I've always had expectations for the Pacers, and I've always felt I sort of knew what was going to happen (regardless of how wrong I ended up being, especially the last two years). This season I am stuck in the middle. I love what we've done this offseason, and I guess I'm still a little hungover from the championship expectations this offseason that I really badly want to expect that again. I can't come out and say I don't expect it, because that feels wrong, but I also can't say that I do, because I feel stupid to expect that of this team.

I know this rant seems off topic, but it is the same way I feel about the players attitudes. I want to beleive that Jack won't argue and that Tinsley won't get hurt and that Jermaine will lead this team to the promise land, but I can't say I do believe that will happen, and I can't say that I don't, either way I feel like I'm wrong.

Hicks
10-04-2006, 12:30 PM
I'm generally buying it. The reports from the first day of practice have me actually expecting a different offense now. Beyond that, I simply choose to be optimistic.

naptown
10-04-2006, 12:43 PM
Every pre-season I am optimistic and looking forward to the season. This year is no different. All the off season speculation and pre-season hype has never meant a thing to me. Good or bad.

I always look at the season in quarters. I prefer to let the first 20 games of the season be the initial measuring stick. Then see how we progress as a team the next 20. And again the next 20. Hopefully seeing steady improvement and continuity. Then I like to see us playing our best ball the last 20. Thats what you hope for anyway.

None of what is said from June through October really means a thing. Only thing that matter is what happens on the floor from November through June. Well hopefully June. :)

Speed
10-04-2006, 12:44 PM
I have to see them play, even in preseason to start to form an opinion.

To me, it's not about wins and losses, its about them having fun/showing enthusiasm and playing the right way.

By the "right way" I mean I'm tired of them being outsmarted at every turn, at both ends of the floor, and having a collectively low B ball IQ. I

f they show those 2 things, I'm all about it.

grace
10-04-2006, 12:59 PM
Nope, I'm not buying into it. I won't until the season is over. If nothing has happened then yes I'll buy into it. Until then I'm not a believer.

ChicagoJ
10-04-2006, 01:05 PM
I'm going to have to see it to believe it.

But I'm still watching and waiting, so that has to count for something...

_PD_
10-04-2006, 01:11 PM
:sunshine:

Isaac
10-04-2006, 01:13 PM
To me, it's not about wins and losses, its about them having fun/showing enthusiasm and playing the right way.

Wow. I'm the complete opposite. I guess this sort of stems from being a White Sox fan, but I don't give a rats *** how they do it or if they enjoy it I want to win. If we play an outstanding game and lose, I'm pissed. If we play horribly and win, I'm happy. That's all there really is to it for me.

Actually, after reading you're post again you may have been refering to the preseason games? If so, then I agree.

BillS
10-04-2006, 01:14 PM
<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/ff/Kool-AidMan.jpg/180px-Kool-AidMan.jpg">

BigDawg44
10-04-2006, 01:14 PM
i dont know if buying into it is the right phrase for me. yes, i am getting excited and i am very optimistic about this season. but there is somethin in the back of my head that says, we will be same ole slow grind it out offense more than run and gun.

Los Angeles
10-04-2006, 01:20 PM
I'm pretty sure the talk is earnest.

I'm left optimistic but not 100% convinced about everything, particularly how the players will get along with Rick.

We're in the "Talk the talk" phase. I'm ready for the walk.

JayRedd
10-04-2006, 01:24 PM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/ff/Kool-AidMan.jpg/180px-Kool-AidMan.jpg


I still see the Kool Aid pitcher as half-empty....but I'm starting to buy in a little more.

Speed
10-04-2006, 02:08 PM
Wow. I'm the complete opposite. I guess this sort of stems from being a White Sox fan, but I don't give a rats *** how they do it or if they enjoy it I want to win. If we play an outstanding game and lose, I'm pissed. If we play horribly and win, I'm happy. That's all there really is to it for me.

Actually, after reading you're post again you may have been refering to the preseason games? If so, then I agree.


I was taught basketball old school and believe if you play the right way with enthusiasm the wins take care of themselves. The "right way" encompasses so many things. Also, I'm not sure the "Wins take care of themselves" means they win alot even, but it should mean that you are reaching your potential as a team. If they play that way they should win as many as the talent level of this group allows.

I think most teams never reach that potential, ever. Look at the 2000 team as a rare example tho. I think with that group they played as well as they possibly could by playing the right way, they had max'd out imho. They were as good as they could possibly be. Reggie is a great example too. A way skinny, not freakish athlete who is a hall of famer. Reg did by far the most with his ability, reached the maximum potential, thats rare, I think.

When I say I don't care about wins, not take that to mean I care about style, I don't care AT ALL about style, over 100 points a game, up or down tempo, any of that. It's about moving your feet on defense, no easy shots/hand in the face everytime, boxing out every play, setting up your teammates for easy shots, never looking up at the stat board in the end of Conseco Fieldhouse to see how many rebounds you have, be in condition so you can play 3 more quarters after playing a full game, taking a charge, setting a real pick not a fake one that roll off of hoping to get the ball, I could go on..... It's all playing the right way.

FlavaDave
10-04-2006, 02:30 PM
If we are a true title contender, I don't care if the score is 22-21 with 50 turnovers.

If we need a few years of seasoning before we are ready to rumble, then we might as well be entertained along the way.

ChicagoJ
10-04-2006, 02:32 PM
Isaac, the difference is that in baseball, only a small percentage of the teams qualify for the postseason. So the regular season W-L record has more meaning. The Sox had an impressive W-L record this year, but unfortunately for them there were two *even better* teams in their division.

But if it were basketball, they'd still be in the playoffs.

Therefore, I agree with Speed's comments. I'll start to buy into it when I see the team playing the right way - with a high bballIQ, sharing the ball, moving without the ball, committed to defense and rebounding, and communicating on defense (and by communicating on defense, I don't mean for one rookie to be standing in the middle of the court, yelling at everyone else, while his man shoots an uncontested three) (nor am I referring to the shouting matches that SJax, Fred Jones, AJ, and other players would get into.)

If they are doing all those things consistently by/after the All-Star break, this team will be in position for a deep playoff run during a rebuilding year. If not? Well, this is a rebuilding year.

Kegboy
10-04-2006, 02:39 PM
I buy that a concerted effort is being made to change the culture. But even if everything is wine and roses, I still don't see us being very good.

Isaac
10-04-2006, 02:41 PM
Jay, I was more referring to the fact that the sox best teams have been winning ugly type teams.

Unclebuck
10-04-2006, 02:47 PM
To answer the question: I don't know

But I'm excited that training camp has started, looking forward to the first preseason game and can't wait until the regular season starts.

I don't get too caught up in too much else except for enjoying the ride. It was fun just to see the news reports, it was fun just to receive my season tickets in the mail, and it is fun to have something to read on Pacers.com and Indystar.com

ChicagoJ
10-04-2006, 02:55 PM
Jay, I was more referring to the fact that the sox best teams have been winning ugly type teams.

Okay.

But then again, I'd describe:


when I see the team playing the right way - with a high bballIQ, sharing the ball, moving without the ball, committed to defense and rebounding, and communicating on defense

as "winning ugly."

vapacersfan
10-04-2006, 03:00 PM
I am really excited for this season to get started.

I am not sure what to expect of this team, and frankly I like it that way.

I would love to be surprised, pleasantly of course.

Does this mean I beleive all the spin that the Pacers PR people are putting out? No, that is there respective jobs and they are doing a very good job of it. I will beleive all the talk when the players walk the walk. So far though, I am liking what I am hearing.

MagicRat
10-04-2006, 03:02 PM
I buy that a concerted effort is being made to change the culture. But even if everything is wine and roses, I still don't see us being very good.

By "us", I'm assuming you mean the Cavs.........:yes:

Isaac
10-04-2006, 03:03 PM
Okay.

But then again, I'd describe:



as "winning ugly."


Yeah you're right, as soon as I typed that I realized it.

The Hustler
10-04-2006, 03:06 PM
not sure i buy it but i am excited to see the season start ... i just wanna no what happens!

vapacersfan
10-04-2006, 03:22 PM
By "us", I'm assuming you mean the Cavs.........:yes:

ZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kegboy
10-04-2006, 05:52 PM
By "us", I'm assuming you mean the Cavs.........:yes:

Fine, see if I stick up for Chicken Fingers anymore.

CableKC
10-04-2006, 08:32 PM
Saying that we will be better is different then actually taking the necessary actions to make the "rhetoric" reality or not.

I like to believe that what Bird is trying to implement is going to make the team a better and different team and that the offensive style may actually be a better fit for the type of players that we have....but there are alot of things that have to happen in order for it to actually work.

Players buying into the team concept ( instead of the "Me first" concept ) in order to make it work, Carlisle lessening his leash on the PGs and actually staying healthy are many factors that will affect whether this rhetoric will be true or not.

I am partially buying into the "rhetoric".....but still apprehensive....which is pretty much the result of 3 years of continued disappointment and being an eternal pessimist.

Slick Pinkham
10-05-2006, 11:37 AM
They have to prove something to me. Fuzzy soft articles and newpaper ads are nice, but I'll wait until I see something on the floor.

I'm still at a lower interest level than at any point since 1969 when I was six years old. I was more interested even in the depths of the 80's when we had crappy talent but played hard.

I enjoy supporting teams that play harder than their oppenents, that are better prepared, tougher, and smarter. Intangibles that lift the TEAM above the sum of the individual talents. The last few seasons I've seen little of that. The result has been LESS than the talent says it should be due to low basketball IQ, lack of hustle, lack of heart, lack of preparation, lack of aggression, and lack of determination.

Months ago I canceled my NBA league pass for the first time in years. I'm hoping to get re-excited enough to regret doing that.

Smooth_for_Pres.
10-05-2006, 12:11 PM
Personally, the marketing of this season is irrelevant. They are always going to say the right things in juxtaposition to what the press has been reporting. I like that the 'company line' has changed from title contention to 'fun to watch, making the team better', but that's still just covering their butts in the off chance that what they've done this off season doesn't gel.
At the beginning of the season, any team is going to talk about teamwork over personal goals, putting the mistakes of the past behind us, working hard and having fun, etc. Whereas I find mt heart breaking sometimes, hoping against hope that this team will revalidate the Pacers in the NBA, I will only know once I see it on the floor. I believe it will happen because I believe in Donnie and Larry and I've learned as much as I can about our new team, but all the billboards and newspapers in the world don't matter until the ball drops.

Harddrive7
10-05-2006, 12:41 PM
Hey, as long as JO, Jackson, and Tins set a good example for these new guys then I'm definitely buying into it.

This is going to be a very unselfish hard working team that loves nothing more than to come to work everyday.

I just think that it's going to have to start from the 3 older Pacers.

I think that we need to invest in some hard hats again. I think this is what this team is going to be. The blue collar work horse team that we use to know and love.

OneHappyFan
10-05-2006, 12:43 PM
I am sold on the idea that they are committed on getting better which is all I am concerned with. I would like to see them win but I want them to have fun and make it look like they are. Management has done all they can do to this point (which is a lot), now it is up to the coaches and players to get it done. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

grace
10-05-2006, 01:02 PM
Months ago I canceled my NBA league pass for the first time in years. I'm hoping to get re-excited enough to regret doing that.

Good luck with that. Kegboy and I are still waiting to regret out decision not to renew our season tickets.