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View Full Version : Johnny Davis was on WIBC Tuesday night



Unclebuck
10-03-2006, 09:11 PM
Johnny Davis will be on Kevin Lee's show. Sometime between now and 11:00, I don't know when, I'm guessing in the 10:00 hour

Unclebuck
10-03-2006, 09:23 PM
He'll be on in a few minutes, must be 9:30

Jermaniac
10-03-2006, 09:26 PM
Damn online thing wont work for me, keep us updated UB

Frank Slade
10-03-2006, 09:26 PM
He'll be on in a few minutes, must be 9:30

Thanks UB, Kevin Lee just commented that he hears the Pacers really like Powell.

Thinks Greene and Powell stand the best chance to make it.

Tinsley has now hired a chef and has begun lifting weights for the first time.

Jermaniac
10-03-2006, 09:31 PM
GOOD, We need to keep Orien Green and Josh Powell on this roster.

Unclebuck
10-03-2006, 09:34 PM
JD isn't on yet

ajbry
10-03-2006, 09:34 PM
To be honest, it just seems a bit comical that Greene has to fight for a roster spot. He's going to be a solid contributor, if he gets the chance.

Unclebuck
10-03-2006, 09:37 PM
To be honest, it just seems a bit comical that Greene has to fight for a roster spot. He's going to be a solid contributor, if he gets the chance.

I agree

Leisure Suit Larry
10-03-2006, 09:38 PM
I like what I hear, who is ready for Sunday?

Unclebuck
10-03-2006, 09:41 PM
JD is on right now

Unclebuck
10-03-2006, 09:44 PM
JD will be in charge of the offense, trying to get an uptempo style of basketball.

!Pacers-Fan!
10-03-2006, 09:45 PM
aiight keep us updated, i think we should keep Snap Hunter.

pizza guy
10-03-2006, 09:57 PM
JD will be in charge of the offense, trying to get an uptempo style of basketball.

So, JD with the O, Person with the D....what's RC gonna do?

Kegboy
10-03-2006, 10:10 PM
So, JD with the O, Person with the D....what's RC gonna do?

Blue card Jamaal every chance he gets?

pizza guy
10-03-2006, 10:29 PM
:rotflmao:

As least we know.

MagicRat
10-03-2006, 10:39 PM
Blue card Jamaal every chance he gets?

Jamaal will just follow orders, but this may be my response from way up in the rafters.......:brick:

Since86
10-03-2006, 11:14 PM
Tinsley has now hired a chef and has begun lifting weights for the first time.

And people blame his history of injuries on the medical staff. :rolleyes:


This is absolutely amazing that a man with that much cash flow was uninterested in making his body the best it could be, to work for that paycheck.

The past few days have really got me in a positive mood, even on Jax, but Tins just keeps tumbling down and down with me.

Good God he must be dense.

pizza guy
10-03-2006, 11:15 PM
Jamaal will just follow orders, but this may be my response from way up in the rafters.......:brick:

We really should have a smilie with a cup of beer flying in instead of a brick.

Eindar
10-03-2006, 11:22 PM
Well, technically it took JO something like 6 years to hire a personal chef, right? 4 years in Portland, then 2 with the Pacers. I'm not excusing Tinsley, but some people won't believe the stove is hot until they've touched it.

Jermaniac
10-03-2006, 11:23 PM
lol @ Jamaal not being liked because he didnt hire a chef earlier in his career. Thats great. Hate on.

Since86
10-03-2006, 11:27 PM
I'm more worried about the lifting weights comment.

Weight lifting has been a proven vital part of athletics as far back as ancient Rome, and I'm sure even farther.

That's completely S-T-U-P-I-D.

That's great. Keep the blindfold on.

pizza guy
10-03-2006, 11:29 PM
I don't think anyone is saying, "we have to get rid of Jamaal because he didn't have a chef!" Rather, I'd say it's more like, "Why would he not take better care of himself?" Sure, they're regular people, too, but Jamaal has had enough health problems to consider it before now.

I'm in the camp that says, "Well, I'm glad he finally took these steps" instead of "why didn't he before?" Maybe, even Tins is trying to fix his problems. Could you imagine if JO, Jack, and Tins all worked on themselves individually and came into this season healthy and focused? We might make some real noise if that happened.

OK, I'll put the Kool-Aid down...I'm drinking too much of this stuff...

ABADays
10-03-2006, 11:35 PM
Bet the new chef doesn't include any Snickers bars.

Jermaniac
10-03-2006, 11:35 PM
I'm more worried about the lifting weights comment.

Weight lifting has been a proven vital part of athletics as far back as ancient Rome, and I'm sure even farther.

That's completely S-T-U-P-I-D.

That's great. Keep the blindfold on.
Jermaine lifted weights like a beast and got up to 260 pounds, lifting weights and a chef didnt keep Jermaine healthy. People get hurt no matter what they do.

Since86
10-03-2006, 11:38 PM
Jermaine lifted weights like a beast and got up to 260 pounds, lifting weights and a chef didnt keep Jermaine healthy. People get hurt no matter what they do.

Too much weight on a frame not intended can be unhealthy.

It was also reported that JO worked his total body this year, instead of just his upper body. That get's you in big trouble, and I'd lay money on it that it was a big reason for his lower body injuries.

College players lift weights EVERYDAY. Most highschool players lift weights 3-4 times a week. It's a proven science. It works, but only if you do it correctly (or at all.)

I can't believe they didn't make him atleast do something, maybe not intensely, but atleast lift something other than his water bottle.

pizza guy
10-03-2006, 11:40 PM
It's about being in the best shape you can be. JO's problem was that he had too much bulk. His diet and exercise plan worked to make him huge, but huge was not where his body was in it's best shape. That's why he changed back to slimmer JO.

It just seems weird that a professional athlete, paid to be in very good shape essentially, wouldn't do all he could to be in his best shape.

Since86
10-03-2006, 11:44 PM
It just seems weird that a professional athlete, paid to be in very good shape essentially, wouldn't do all he could to be in his best shape.

Exactly. Especially when you've had numerous seasons where your body has broken down for long periods of time.

It should have been common sense.

sweabs
10-04-2006, 12:18 AM
I've always thought that when Jermaine "bulked up" he would resemble something more like Alonzo Mourning in terms of pure muscle and body shape. However, it seemed like he put a lot of weight on, lifted some weights, but never worked on his cardio (which is what Since86 was referring to). If you look at pictures of Jermaine in his earlier days, he was skinnier, but also seemed to have more definition. He had the strength and the quickness. I'd like him to regain both of those attributes, and not just one or the other.

Just my opinion - maybe I'm on my own with this one.

Naptown_Seth
10-04-2006, 12:56 AM
So, JD with the O, Person with the D....what's RC gonna do?
This is an obvious emulation of the Bird-RC-Harter era. Considering those results I have no problem with it.

Naptown_Seth
10-04-2006, 01:12 AM
Too much weight on a frame not intended can be unhealthy.

It was also reported that JO worked his total body this year, instead of just his upper body. That get's you in big trouble, and I'd lay money on it that it was a big reason for his lower body injuries.

College players lift weights EVERYDAY. Most highschool players lift weights 3-4 times a week. It's a proven science. It works, but only if you do it correctly (or at all.)

I can't believe they didn't make him atleast do something, maybe not intensely, but atleast lift something other than his water bottle.
You mean like the dislocated shoulder? I'm not sure why you made lower body injury plural.

On top of that his body showed excellent resilience to a leg injury early in 04 during the ECF when his knee went the wrong direction and he returned later in the same game and played the rest of the series.

Tinsley started his NBA career with very minimal injuries, and even in the last few seasons he has spent a lot of time sitting due to "sinus problems". It's easy to see why he might not have seen a major need for weight training.

And just how much lifting and how many personal chefs did Mark Jackson have in 1995?



Moderate weight work and a very focused diet should make any athlete more effective than doing without them, but I don't think those are the source of many of Tinsley's previous issues.

To me what it sounds more like is that every single player and coach has agreed to take some step toward the solution, everyone is coming into the season trying to concede some area that previously they held their ground on.

It might not be the solution, but its a good step toward one.

Hicks
10-04-2006, 07:00 AM
Tinsley has now hired a chef and has begun lifting weights for the first time.

For the first time? What the hell was he doing before?

Kegboy
10-04-2006, 07:51 AM
I don't believe that an NBA player doesn't lift weights during the season. Period. Jamaal's never been Dajuan Wagner or anything, but he doesn't get knocked around, either.

I take it to mean that this is the first time he's committed to lifting weights during the off season. If he seriously refused to lift during the season, than that's just one more example of how **** poor the discipline of this organization has been. And if Jamaal doesn't lift weights, than I sure as hell can see somebody else out there who doesn't. :bouncingoffpickssmilie:

As for the whole JO didn't bulk up properly, uh, isn't that the training staff's fault?

Unclebuck
10-04-2006, 08:24 AM
I don't believe that an NBA player doesn't lift weights during the season. Period. Jamaal's never been Dajuan Wagner or anything, but he doesn't get knocked around, either.

I take it to mean that this is the first time he's committed to lifting weights during the off season. If he seriously refused to lift during the season, than that's just one more example of how **** poor the discipline of this organization has been. And if Jamaal doesn't lift weights, than I sure as hell can see somebody else out there who doesn't. :bouncingoffpickssmilie:

As for the whole JO didn't bulk up properly, uh, isn't that the training staff's fault?


Wait a minute, we aren't talking about 5th graders here or even high schoolers. Blaming the organization seems like a stretch to me. Isn't Tinsley 28 years old

MagicRat
10-04-2006, 08:27 AM
I don't believe that an NBA player doesn't lift weights during the season. Period. Jamaal's never been Dajuan Wagner or anything, but he doesn't get knocked around, either.

I think what you meant to say was "Jamaal's never been Chauncey Billups or anything." Chauncey is bigger, so clearly he's stronger than Dajuan..........

http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/images/billupswagner.jpg

MagicRat
10-04-2006, 08:30 AM
Isn't Tinsley 28 years old?

I'm not sure. When I wiped all of their slates clean for the season I lost that information.......:whoknows:

Unclebuck
10-04-2006, 09:25 AM
I'm not sure. When I wiped all of their slates clean for the season I lost that information.......:whoknows:

I can't believe anyone reads my posts. You need to stop that right now

Kegboy
10-04-2006, 09:43 AM
Wait a minute, we aren't talking about 5th graders here or even high schoolers. Blaming the organization seems like a stretch to me. Isn't Tinsley 28 years old

5th graders and HS'ers aren't paid.

So, what, they've got a state-of-the-art gym and they let players lay around and play playstation all day? If this is really the "first time" Jamaal's lifted weights, then either the Pacers haven't believed it's important, or they've let it slide for 6 years.

Once again, I think the point is this is the first time Jamaal's committed to weight training outside of Conseco. Now, either he decided on his own it's something to do, or the training camp recommended he do it for better conditioning, or TPTB put their foot down and told him to.

indygeezer
10-04-2006, 10:36 AM
Does that explain why JT stays in Atlanta (W/E) while his teammates are in Indy all summer working out together? Perhaps he has been hiding his lack of work ethic from their sight. And yes, I now our Euroguy wasn't here either...but JT is the PG starter IOW the leader/quarterback, IMPO he should be here with his teammates. (and honestly, that sounds harsher than I mean it to be)

Moses
10-04-2006, 11:04 AM
I'm really digging all the Tinsley hate. What you guys are saying is pure speculation..and you are running with it like it's the truth.

"Tinsley goes to Atlanta to hide his poor work ethic!"

"Tinsley is fat and just now hired a chef!! Every player in the NBA should have their own personal Chef!"

etc etc

Wait for the season to start before you start crying about Tinsley. The guy looks very in shape this season. It's the offseason for a reason guys. He's not obligated to work out at Conseco..especially when his house is in Atlanta.

Trader Joe
10-04-2006, 11:45 AM
Who gives a rat's rear if Tinsley didn't lift weights consistently during the offseason til now? Sure that may be frustrating, but all the complaining in the world is not going to change it. I for one will be glad that he finally has taken these steps to be a complete player. I like how our view of athletes is so horribly skewed. A 28 year old in just about any other profession is still learning and growing, when you are a 28 year old pro athlete you should be perfect and never make any mistakes.

indygeezer
10-04-2006, 12:01 PM
I'm really digging all the Tinsley hate. What you guys are saying is pure speculation..and you are running with it like it's the truth.

"Tinsley goes to Atlanta to hide his poor work ethic!"

"Tinsley is fat and just now hired a chef!! Every player in the NBA should have their own personal Chef!"

etc etc

Wait for the season to start before you start crying about Tinsley. The guy looks very in shape this season. It's the offseason for a reason guys. He's not obligated to work out at Conseco..especially when his house is in Atlanta.

and that's why I posed mine as questions, to indicate that it IS purely speculation on my part. I make no apologies for saying that I don't like his "game" (actually it's his knuckleheadedness I dislike). I was one of his biggest supporters when he first came to the P's but he has worn out his welcome as far as I'm concerned. As always, If he changes...GREAT, I'm not too proud to welcome him back....but I won't apologize for how I feel now. I want what is best for the Pacers and right now that ain't him IMO.

Hicks
10-04-2006, 12:31 PM
Does that explain why JT stays in Atlanta (W/E) while his teammates are in Indy all summer working out together? Perhaps he has been hiding his lack of work ethic from their sight. And yes, I now our Euroguy wasn't here either...but JT is the PG starter IOW the leader/quarterback, IMPO he should be here with his teammates. (and honestly, that sounds harsher than I mean it to be)

No kidding. I love how it's everybody's fault EXCEPT Jamaal Tinsley's.

Isaac
10-04-2006, 12:34 PM
I have a feeling Jamaal will be traded by the deadline. I'm PRAYING I'm wrong, because he's our best chance to succeed at the point guard position.

imawhat
10-04-2006, 12:36 PM
No kidding. I love how it's everybody's fault EXCEPT Jamaal Tinsley's.


Reggie Miller didn't stay in town (supposedly), as our leader. I'm not sure what everyone is getting at, other than nitpicking Jamaal just to nitpick. He's just the easiest target.

vapacersfan
10-04-2006, 12:42 PM
No kidding. I love how it's everybody's fault EXCEPT Jamaal Tinsley's.

Didn't you get the memo, Hicks?

Its all Rick Carslisle's fault.

He should have been following him around and making sure he was "eating right" and even spent the night at JT's house to make sure he was lifting weights.

grace
10-04-2006, 12:48 PM
Didn't you get the memo, Hicks?

Its all Larry Bird's fault.

Fixed. :)

naptown
10-04-2006, 12:52 PM
To be honest, it just seems a bit comical that Greene has to fight for a roster spot. He's going to be a solid contributor, if he gets the chance.

Why shouldnt he have to fight for it, earn it, prove by his play on the court in camp and pre-season that he deserves to be on the final roster?

Dont get me wrong, I like Greene, but he hasnt done a thing to this point in his Pacer tenure that should guarantee him anything.

vapacersfan
10-04-2006, 12:58 PM
Fixed. :)

Yeah, we all know Bird should have been keeping a "Bird Eyes View" on Tinsley every day. It's not like he has anything else to do, lets just let him babysit grow men :rolleyes:

grace
10-04-2006, 01:08 PM
Yeah, we all know Bird should have been keeping a "Bird Eyes View" on Tinsley every day. It's not like he has anything else to do, lets just let him babysit grow men :rolleyes:

No he just likes to waste, I mean spend all this time in Europe.

Since86
10-04-2006, 01:13 PM
You mean like the dislocated shoulder? I'm not sure why you made lower body injury plural.

On top of that his body showed excellent resilience to a leg injury early in 04 during the ECF when his knee went the wrong direction and he returned later in the same game and played the rest of the series.


Ligament damage is a whole different ball park, which is exactly what a dislocated shoulder is, or even a hyperextended knee. You could have the most perfect weight resistance training regimen, and still roll an ankle or dislocate a shoulder (especially when it was pulled the way JOs was).

Adding stronger muscle around those joints is gonna make the joint more stabile, and harder to injure, but it's still very likely either can happen at any time.


Tinsley started his NBA career with very minimal injuries, and even in the last few seasons he has spent a lot of time sitting due to "sinus problems". It's easy to see why he might not have seen a major need for weight training.

And just how much lifting and how many personal chefs did Mark Jackson have in 1995?

It's easy to see why he might not weight train? Are you kidding me????? You're a very, very logical person Seth, and that goes against common sense.

Basketball, let alone playing in the NBA, is a VERY phsyical sport. You can't eat potato chips, and drink pop all the time and expect to be at your best. There's a reason why athletes drink gatorade and water, instead of beer and soda pop.

Athletes are getting in trouble by using substances that could affect their well being later in life, just to get in the best phsyical shape possible while they're still playing, and you see the reason why he wouldn't need to try to get in the top performance out of his body?

That's an eye popping statement.



Moderate weight work and a very focused diet should make any athlete more effective than doing without them, but I don't think those are the source of many of Tinsley's previous issues.

To me what it sounds more like is that every single player and coach has agreed to take some step toward the solution, everyone is coming into the season trying to concede some area that previously they held their ground on.

It might not be the solution, but its a good step toward one.

Whether it's directly related to his problems or not, really doesn't matter. It shows a complete lack of respect for his teammates and the Pacer organization. If you're being paid millions upon millions of dollars to play a sport that requires you to in the best phsyical shape you can be, don't you feel an obligation to work at being the best you can be?

He's judged on his phsyical performance. Your phsyical attributes will get you much farther in that profession, than your head will. When you see a scouting report, it talkes about their phsyical presence way before their basketball IQ.

It's a complete shame that he's willing to sit back and collect a paycheck, and feel like he shouldn't work hard to get it. I can handle people who aren't capable, but I loathe people who don't even try.

Since86
10-04-2006, 01:16 PM
Reggie Miller didn't stay in town (supposedly), as our leader. I'm not sure what everyone is getting at, other than nitpicking Jamaal just to nitpick. He's just the easiest target.

:laugh: Reggie had a well documented training regimen that included 5mi runs on the beach.

Comparing Reggie leaving town to workout, with Tinsley leaving town and not working out is laughable.

grace
10-04-2006, 01:23 PM
Who exactly said that Jamaal is lifting weights for the first time? If it was Johnny Davis how the hell does he know considering he wasn't even here? I'm not saying he's wrong I'm just saying I don't understand why everyone is taking what he says as gospel.

Anthem
10-04-2006, 01:33 PM
Who exactly said that Jamaal is lifting weights for the first time? If it was Johnny Davis how the hell does he know considering he wasn't even here? I'm not saying he's wrong I'm just saying I don't understand why everyone is taking what he says as gospel.
Exactly. We know Jamaal's spent at least two offseasons in that insanely intense pro camp in Florida... the one Al introduced him to. There's no way that program didn't include weights.

Since86
10-04-2006, 01:42 PM
Exactly. We know Jamaal's spent at least two offseasons in that insanely intense pro camp in Florida... the one Al introduced him to. There's no way that program didn't include weights.

It was reported that he was in ATL last offseason. I know it's not that far, but you still don't confuse Atlanta with Florida.

Since86
10-04-2006, 01:49 PM
I looked up the facility I thought it would be, and it's IPI: Bollettieri Sports Academy in Bradenton FL.

It also listed Jamaal and Al as alum. so I know for 100% it's that one.

EDIT: Here's the link. http://www.imgacademies.com/basketball/default.sps?itype=8047

MagicRat
10-04-2006, 01:58 PM
It was reported that he was in ATL last offseason. I know it's not that far, but you still don't confuse Atlanta with Florida.

Maybe you shouldn't confuse "at least two offseasons" with "last offseason"............:tip:

Arcadian
10-04-2006, 02:07 PM
There is no way Tinsley has never lifted wieghts before. People are reading too much into it. What we should be asking is if he has worked on smiling on the bench.

imawhat
10-04-2006, 02:15 PM
:laugh: Reggie had a well documented training regimen that included 5mi runs on the beach.

Comparing Reggie leaving town to workout, with Tinsley leaving town and not working out is laughable.


You totally missed the point. Re-read the post that brought that response.


And you also missed the point of the Davis' quote, and/or you haven't been paying attention. If you had you'd notice that Tinsley comes into camp every year in great shape. He doesn't do it by sitting around and eating potato chips. He works out. A lot.


By the way, you can gain a lot of muscle tone and strength without lifting weights (which he's obviously done anyways). Tinsley's not a center. He has strength in his size and he should be focusing on keeping his body tone enough to play an 82-game season. Consistently lifting weights helps, and I'm glad he's giving it a try.

Since86
10-04-2006, 02:17 PM
Maybe you shouldn't confuse "at least two offseasons" with "last offseason"............:tip:

I read it as, "last two offseasons." :blush:


There is no way Tinsley has never lifted wieghts before. People are reading too much into it. What we should be asking is if he has worked on smiling on the bench.

I'm not any way/shape/form of back tracking, only clarifying.

I don't really think he's never picked up a barbell, dumbbell, or sat down on a machine. That would be completely naive.

But when you say the phrase "lifting weights," in a sport related attitude, it means lifting 3+ times a week with an effort on a specific goal. It's not going in and throwing around weight on different machines, working different areas of your body every day.

It's creating a schedule of working on specific body parts one day, another the next day, and so on.

You don't say you've been lifting if you go in once, or even twice, a week and do a complete body workout. You'd be laughed at.

Since86
10-04-2006, 02:29 PM
You totally missed the point. Re-read the post that brought that response.

I got you're point, you missed mine. I was saying Reggie was a perfect leader by example. He showed his teammates what hard work in the offseason does for a player. You don't have to workout together to lead them.


And you also missed the point of the Davis' quote, and/or you haven't been paying attention. If you had you'd notice that Tinsley comes into camp every year in great shape. He doesn't do it by sitting around and eating potato chips. He works out. A lot.


By the way, you can gain a lot of muscle tone and strength without lifting weights (which he's obviously done anyways). Tinsley's not a center. He has strength in his size and he should be focusing on keeping his body tone enough to play an 82-game season. Consistently lifting weights helps, and I'm glad he's giving it a try.

The bolded highlight is 100% false. If you want, we can get into phsyiological reasons why you get stronger/bigger, and all the reasons revolve around working the muscle.

Lifting doesn't just make you stronger, and shouldn't be just advocated for post positions. Why would volleyball players have a strict weight workout then?

There is soooo much more to weight training than the general population knows. Personal trainers have a stereotype about being a big strong dumb guy, but a good one will be very educated and will be part of a worldwide recognized organization.

EDIT: Yes. I do get kind of touchy on this subject, because I work very hard in school right now to learn this stuff. It really is an eye opening experience.

ChicagoJ
10-04-2006, 02:39 PM
I think what you meant to say was "Jamaal's never been Chauncey Billups or anything." Chauncey is bigger, so clearly he's stronger than Dajuan..........

http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/images/billupswagner.jpg

:-o

I'd forgotten all about that, uh, incident. :laugh:

MagicRat is in mid-season form.

+++++++++++

Back on topic, since we hear (and see) every year that, "Jamaal is in the best shape of his life", it seems to me that this is just another way of trying to say the same thing - that he's coming into camp in shape. I think many of you are turning this into something that it is not - it is not an indictment of what he's done during any previous offseason because he's made it a habit to get in shape during the offseason.

But they're adding to that new things that he's going to do during the season. That's been his problem - not his health in November and December but his health in March.

As for basketball players lifting weights, in the dark ages when I was playing, a lot of coaches didn't want their perimeter players lifting weights - especially during the season - because it would screw up their jumpshot.

Offseason lifting had to be supplemented by lots of shooting drills.

Post players - that was different.

The view may have changed. But then again, we also spend a lot of time talking about the lost art of shooting in American players so maybe the viewpoint has changed incorrectly.

Can you imagine if Jamaal's jumper could get any worse?

Kegboy
10-04-2006, 02:46 PM
:omg:

I'd forgotten all about that, uh, incident. :laugh:

MagicRat is in mid-season form.

Hey, I'm the one who brought it up! :kickcan:

Anyway, I think we're all missing the point. It doesn't matter if Jamaal's weight trained in the past or not. Judging from the anorexic picture of him from Monday, he's obviously not very good at it. ;)

vapacersfan
10-04-2006, 02:53 PM
:-o

I'd forgotten all about that, uh, incident. :laugh:

MagicRat is in mid-season form.

+++++++++++

Back on topic, since we hear (and see) every year that, "Jamaal is in the best shape of his life", it seems to me that this is just another way of trying to say the same thing - that he's coming into camp in shape. I think many of you are turning this into something that it is not - it is not an indictment of what he's done during any previous offseason because he's made it a habit to get in shape during the offseason.

But they're adding to that new things that he's going to do during the season. That's been his problem - not his health in November and December but his health in March.

As for basketball players lifting weights, in the dark ages when I was playing, a lot of coaches didn't want their perimeter players lifting weights - especially during the season - because it would screw up their jumpshot.

Offseason lifting had to be supplemented by lots of shooting drills.

Post players - that was different.

The view may have changed. But then again, we also spend a lot of time talking about the lost art of shooting in American players so maybe the viewpoint has changed incorrectly.

Can you imagine if Jamaal's jumper could get any worse?

/off topic

My old track coach didnt, and I beleive still doesnt, like having his distance people lift weights......esp not in season.

/Back on topic...

imawhat
10-04-2006, 03:19 PM
I got you're point, you missed mine. I was saying Reggie was a perfect leader by example. He showed his teammates what hard work in the offseason does for a player. You don't have to workout together to lead them.

There was no point to miss. I agree that you don't have to work with the team, but Tinsley is just as good of an example as Reggie was for offseason workout programs, if not better. Tinsley's results from his offseason workout programs are way more visible than Reggie's ever were. And yes, he comes into camp every year in great shape. If you disagree, point out a camp that he didn't.


The bolded highlight is 100% false. If you want, we can get into phsyiological reasons why you get stronger/bigger, and all the reasons revolve around working the muscle.

Lifting doesn't just make you stronger, and shouldn't be just advocated for post positions. Why would volleyball players have a strict weight workout then?

Preaching to the choir. Aside from running cross-country/track for the best coach in the state and adhering to a number of different workout programs, I went to college for Physical Therapy. I'm well aware of the anatomy, physiology, and biology of muscle activity. So I've been on both sides.

What you bolded doesn't make sense with your statement. You reply to the bolded words "By the way, you can gain a lot of muscle tone and strength without lifting weights" by saying you disagree and that you gain strength/size "and all the reasons revolve around working the muscle". What exactly are we disagreeing on?

vapacersfan
10-04-2006, 03:23 PM
You can say that again ;)

naptown
10-04-2006, 03:27 PM
with Tinsley leaving town and not working out is laughable.

What are you talking about? Tinsley has shown up for camp the last two years very trim and in great shape.

He just has not managed to stay healthy and sinus problem free for the entire season.....

imawhat
10-04-2006, 03:31 PM
FWIW, Johnny Davis said that Tinsley hired a chef this time around, but Tinsley had a personal chef three years ago, so it's not completely new. I think the difference might be that Tinsley hired his last chef in the offseason and maybe he's planning on keeping this chef around all year. I don't know. Either way, sinus problems are seasonal, and I'm not sure how he'll be able to get past them this time.

Since86
10-04-2006, 03:33 PM
There was no point to miss. I agree that you don't have to work with the team, but Tinsley is just as good of an example as Reggie was for offseason workout programs, if not better. Tinsley's results from his offseason workout programs are way more visible than Reggie's ever were. And yes, he comes into camp every year in great shape. If you disagree, point out a camp that he didn't.

I think I'm getting ready to have a heartattack. Tinsley is no Reggie, not even close. There's a big difference in being in shape, and being in tip-top shape. The length Reggie played, how he played, and how many games a year speak for themselves. Tinsley, at the pace he is going, won't even be in the same ball park as Reggie Miller.



Preaching to the choir. Aside from running cross-country/track for the best coach in the state and adhering to a number of different workout programs, I went to college for Physical Therapy. I'm well aware of the anatomy, physiology, and biology of muscle activity. So I've been on both sides.

What you bolded doesn't make sense with your statement. You reply to the bolded words "By the way, you can gain a lot of muscle tone and strength without lifting weights" by saying you disagree and that you gain strength/size "and all the reasons revolve around working the muscle". What exactly are we disagreeing on?

You can't tone a muscle, nor strengthen it, without working it. There is no possible way. None. That's what I'm disagreeing with.

You can lose body weight/fat and make yourself look toner, with bigger/stronger muscles, but you've done nothing to the actual muscles. You can't gain strength or toneness, without training. It's impossible.

Since86
10-04-2006, 03:37 PM
What are you talking about? Tinsley has shown up for camp the last two years very trim and in great shape.

He just has not managed to stay healthy and sinus problem free for the entire season.....

How you take care of your body, directly affects your overall heath. The better you do it, the healthier you are.

They're one in the same.

MagicRat
10-04-2006, 03:54 PM
You can't tone a muscle, nor strengthen it, without working it. There is no possible way. None. That's what I'm disagreeing with.

I still don't know what you're disagreeing with.

He said you can build muscle without lifting weights. You're trying to disagree with him by saying "without working it."

That comes across to me as you saying the only way to work a muscle is to lift weights.

Charles Atlas may come to your house and kick sand in your face if you try to make that argument...........

Since86
10-04-2006, 04:09 PM
I still don't know what you're disagreeing with.

He said you can build muscle without lifting weights. You're trying to disagree with him by saying "without working it."

That comes across to me as you saying the only way to work a muscle is to lift weights.

Charles Atlas may come to your house and kick sand in your face if you try to make that argument...........

Lifting weights incompasses push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, and every other type of body lifting exercises. It isn't restricted to using dumbbells, plates, or machinery.

Which is exactly what Charles Atlas advocates along with Jack LaGrange. (I know that's not his last name, but it's close)

EDIT: Jack LaLanne. I knew I was close.

MagicRat
10-04-2006, 04:21 PM
Lifting weights incompasses push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, and every other type of body lifting exercises. It isn't restricted to using dumbbells, plates, or machinery.

Which is exactly what Charles Atlas advocates along with Jack LaGrange. (I know that's not his last name, but it's close)

La Lanne.

So you're disagreeing based on semantics and a very broad definition of "lifting weights"? Come on, now.......

Since86
10-04-2006, 04:31 PM
La Lanne.

So you're disagreeing based on semantics and a very broad definition of "lifting weights"? Come on, now.......

I honestly didn't know that people didn't include body weight exercises in the weight lifting category.

I took it as saying you could gain it through nutrition/supplementation/other substance.

Arcadian
10-04-2006, 04:42 PM
I hope Kstat lifted this off season because I think Since is pushing for Most Argumentive Poster this year.

Putnam
10-04-2006, 04:44 PM
Don't argue with Since86 about nutrition and physical conditioning.

He's very well informed and probably right. Besides, he's tenacious as heck about it and will never relent.

This thread hasn't even warmed up. Doesn't everyone remember the thread about the the effects of eating a meal one hour later than usual? But Since only gets this way when you step onto his turf.

Since86
10-04-2006, 04:47 PM
I shouldn't have decided against saying I was done, huh?

Sorry I even respond. I will go hide in my cave now.

vapacersfan
10-04-2006, 04:51 PM
I hope Kstat lifted this off season because I think Since is pushing for Most Argumentive Poster this year.

This is NBDL stuff.

Did you see the thread about nutrition last season?

imawhat
10-04-2006, 04:56 PM
I think I'm getting ready to have a heartattack. Tinsley is no Reggie, not even close. There's a big difference in being in shape, and being in tip-top shape. The length Reggie played, how he played, and how many games a year speak for themselves. Tinsley, at the pace he is going, won't even be in the same ball park as Reggie Miller.

Are you constantly changing your point to keep an argument going?




You can't tone a muscle, nor strengthen it, without working it. There is no possible way. None. That's what I'm disagreeing with.

You can lose body weight/fat and make yourself look toner, with bigger/stronger muscles, but you've done nothing to the actual muscles. You can't gain strength or toneness, without training. It's impossible.

Who's argued that, besides you? You're counterpointing yourself.


Hey, I don't think you should stop posting, fwiw. Just counter with some examples on the things you disagree with (i.e., Tinsley coming to camp in shape, not working out) instead of arguing about something everyone agrees on.

Arcadian
10-04-2006, 05:00 PM
I shouldn't have decided against saying I was done, huh?

Sorry I even respond. I will go hide in my cave now.

Don't hid. I meant it with a smiley.

Since86
10-04-2006, 05:09 PM
Are you constantly changing your point to keep an argument going?

I don't understand how you think I've changed my position with regards to Reggie. Comparing Tins with him is laughable, to me. Reggie is probably the single best example of what work in the offseason should look like. Tinsley isn't in the same category. 90% of the league isn't in the same category. I think that in alone, speaks for itself.

EDIT: Here's a pretty good snipit of an article about Reggie after the 2000finals run.


Miller shot 36 percent and averaged 16 points in the disappointing 1999 conference finals. Best was hobbled by a groin injury, as he had been late the previous season.

Both hired personal trainers last summer and went to work.

Miller concentrated on improving his off-the-dribble skills and his strength and stamina. He worked with personal trainer Amy Fearrin. He became a regular in the gym and weight room at Lawrence Central High School, on the track at Carmel High. He added about 10 pounds of muscle.

Miller stepped back to give Rose room to emerge during the regular season, but he still averaged 18.1 points and he was Reggie, his own self, during the playoffs, averaging 24 points. He credited his added strength.

"I think it has helped me tremendously," said Miller. "As much holding and tripping and hitting as goes on underneath the boards and especially in our motion play, I feel that I've been able to unhook myself a little bit and feel a little bit more free.

"But I think the weight training and the weight actually has helped me more so in the post. When I'm posting up other guards and so forth, I'm able to hold them off, get the ball, face them and then take them off the dribble."
http://www.swish22.com/Richards0621.html


Who's argued that, besides you? You're counterpointing yourself.

When you say "without lifting weights," do you not know that body weight exercises fall in that category, or are you talking about something else like using nutrition/supplements/other substances?

I'm assuming that you know pushups and such are just as much weight lifting as doing bicep curls with a dumbbell is.

If that's the confusion, then I wasted an hour of our time.


Don't hid. I meant it with a smiley.

I know, I meant mine with one as well.

MagicRat
10-04-2006, 05:28 PM
When you say "without lifting weights," do you not know that body weight exercises fall in that category, or are you talking about something else like using nutrition/supplements/other substances?

I'm assuming that you know pushups and such are just as much weight lifting as doing bicep curls with a dumbbell is.

If that's the confusion, then I wasted an hour of our time.

So if you're hiding in your cave doing some pushups and some other caveman sticks his head in and says, "Hey, whatcha doin'?" you'll say, "Lifting weights"?............:flex:

imawhat
10-04-2006, 05:32 PM
I don't understand how you think I've changed my position with regards to Reggie. Comparing Tins with him is laughable, to me. Reggie is probably the single best example of what work in the offseason should look like. Tinsley isn't in the same category. 90% of the league isn't in the same category. I think that in alone, speaks for itself.

You're changing points because this entire argument is based on whether or not Jamaal came into camp in shape. You then compared him to Reggie before anyone else on the premise that Reggie led by example by coming into camp in shape. I countered by saying Jamaal was a better example than Reggie in terms of offseason workouts because he came into camp with much more visible results than Reggie ever had.

Now you're countering that by saying it's laughable to compare Tins. to Reg., and you're the one who started that comparison. ::shakes head::

And you're expanding your argument each time by including things that weren't even a part of the original argument. And they are things (Reggie's leadership qualities, who stayed healthy during the regular season, etc.) that have nothing to do with offseason workouts. Hence my statement.



When you say "without lifting weights," do you not know that body weight exercises fall in that category, or are you talking about something else like using nutrition/supplements/other substances.

I'm assuming that you know pushups and such are just as much weight lifting as doing bicep curls with a dumbbell is.

If that's the confusion, then I wasted an hour of our time.


You just said you were disagreeing with the point that you can't tone or strengthen a muscle without working it. Everyone agrees on that, so counterpointing that is just arguing with yourself.

But I do think it's funny that you'd bend semantics and definitions on things like lifting weights to include pushups, so it's not wasting my time. I respect your persistence.

Naptown_Seth
10-04-2006, 05:58 PM
How you take care of your body, directly affects your overall heath. The better you do it, the healthier you are.

They're one in the same.
Yep. Perfect example - Lance Armstrong. Luckily he finally realized that he had to take cycling seriously before he caught cancer again.

"Taking care of your body" is a very subjective thing, and one of the top things on the list would be to NOT ABUSE YOUR BODY, as in do not perform excessively strenuous physical activities over and over again. There's a reason guys in heavy labor jobs develop chronic problems early in life.

There's also a reason why so many athletes need to have surgeries. Their job goes beyond routine health and off into the area of excessive. There was a time that running was all the rage, and then the results of that high stress/impact activity began to show up. Suddenly it was swimming or cycling instead.



Lifting weights incompasses push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, and every other type of body lifting exercises. It isn't restricted to using dumbbells, plates, or machinery.
As Rat already called it, silly semantics. Is this really what you think they meant when they said Tinsley was doing weight-training? Weight training typically implies isotonic training WITH WEIGHTS as opposed to other forms of muscle training that don't require weights, such as isometric training. Those terms are typically used to indicate different methods and rarely, if ever, is the term weight training applied to a set of isometic-only exercises in common usage.

Sure a PT might see it as inclusive of all the sub-forms of muscle building, but this isn't a 400 level physiology class, its a blurb from an NBA beat writer in a general purpose newspaper.

For all we know Tinsley "not weight training" meant "only" running with resistance for leg power/speed, regular variations of sprints and distance, push-ups, situps, crunches, etc. He was doing something in previous seasons to get in shape.

AesopRockOn
10-04-2006, 06:28 PM
Forget all this weightlifting crapola, has he been taking his Vitamin C? ;)
(or whatever might cure those upsetting colds and flus)

MagicRat
10-04-2006, 07:03 PM
Forget all this weightlifting crapola, has he been taking his Vitamin C? ;)
(or whatever might cure those upsetting colds and flus)


http://www.sinusbuster.com/

I've sent him a lifetime supply.......

imawhat
10-04-2006, 08:00 PM
http://www.sinusbuster.com/

I've sent him a lifetime supply.......


In all seriousness, I wonder if there's anything Tinsley can do to lessen the sinus problems.


Is there anyone here with sinus problems that's willing to share dos/don'ts?

docpaul
10-04-2006, 09:54 PM
In all seriousness, I wonder if there's anything Tinsley can do to lessen the sinus problems.


Is there anyone here with sinus problems that's willing to share dos/don'ts?

Hah... maybe this isn't fair, but have you ever heard of somatization disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatization_Disorder)? :)

I've always chalked up a lot of this to malcontent.

Naptown_Seth
10-04-2006, 11:27 PM
Ligament damage is a whole different ball park, which is exactly what a dislocated shoulder is, or even a hyperextended knee. You could have the most perfect weight resistance training regimen, and still roll an ankle or dislocate a shoulder (especially when it was pulled the way JOs was).
First of all, having the STRENGTH to resist someone extending your shoulder back would be relevent to avoiding such an injury. Second of all you are making my point with your response. YOU said it was all that upper body work that created his lower body injuries or left him vulnerable, whatever.

My point was that he didn't have a bunch of lower body injuries and actually even had an incident where he somehow resisted what most people though should have been a severe injury.

Telling me about how different injuries can occur doesn't respond to my point at all, it doesn't address the fact that actually JO HAS NOT HAD a bunch of lower body problems.

Dislocated shoulder in 04-05, groin injury in 05-05, and was almost unfazed when his knee bent the wrong direction. Can you tell us all about the rest of his serious lower body injuries (ie, not routine problems that ALL NBA players run into, such as ankle sprains, etc)?

If not then please retract your comment about his upper body workout creating his lower body injurIES.



It's easy to see why he might not weight train? Are you kidding me????? You're a very, very logical person Seth, and that goes against common sense.
Here you go, logic 101, as simplistic as it gets...

1) I don't work out

2) I don't miss games due to injury

3) Therefore I don't need to work out in order to avoid missing games due to injury.

Give me a break. That's basically what I put in the original post anyway. Oh, let me guess, you think he WAS hurt in those first 3 seasons. Nope.


He played 80 games and then 73 games, and of the 9 he missed 5-6 of those were for personal reasons (his mother died from cancer in March 03, and I think he took time off earlier when she was doing poorly or perhaps first diagnosed).

In his 3rd season he was healthy enough to play but his new head coach didn't like his game (or had some issue with him), so he had to wait 2 months to get his chance. Of the final 55-60 games left in the season at that point he played 49-50.

So okay the brawl hits and he runs into a leg issue around mid-season. Allegedly it was misdiagnosed, but I'm sure we all have our questions about how it went down. Regardless he did come back by the playoffs and played fairly well. Okay, so that was a freak thing, it was a crazy year and honestly some of the problem may have come from the 40+ minutes they had to get from him with the roster so depleated.

I mean Reggie (Mr. Health) spent the start of the season recovering from surgery, same with Foster. Croshere had a broken rib at one point apparently and/or a strained chest muscle (thus the 27% from 3 or whatever). Fred Jones even ended up hurting that year.

So Tinsley can still easily blow that off as not the norm, which it certainly was not by any measure.

Then last year he runs into more problems, and perhaps more severe at that. Was it attitude or a real health problem? If it was health, then I can see how a 2nd season of problems after none before that would change his thinking about his regimen.



I think far more legit questions regarding Tinsley are why doesn't he play through sinusitis pain/discomfort and just how does his health affect his sometimes grumpy attitude. I think I've mentioned it here a few times too, but he had a pout session just last year in the first Miami game when SarJas got the shot to finish out that game.

Yes JT had his shin hurting, but that shouldn't have kept him from watching a very close game and perhaps even cheering, clapping, hey, even LOOKING at SarJas when he hit the big shot late in the game (he didn't and I was watching since I had picked up on his odd attitude a few minutes before that and started paying attention to his behavior/reactions).

In short, even as a big Tinsley fan, which I am, I think there are far more serious questions regarding his attitude toward the team and/or Rick than there are regarding his health and workout plans.


Oh, and BTW I'm calling BULLS*** on this whole thread now...
From Bruno's own column in October 2004

He has the full support of his head coach. The team president has projected him as a potential All-Star. The point guard position has been constructed with a clear pecking order and he resides at the top.

Still, Jamaal Tinsley is taking nothing for granted.

"Not at all," he said. "Last year, I thought it was my job, too, but coach (Rick Carlisle) made a decision I couldn’t control. This year I came with the same attitude that it was my job, and mainly I just wanted to work on my body and work on my game."

The result of Tinsley's offseason regimen is apparent. He weighs 185 pounds, 10 less than his playing weight of the past three seasons. His twice-a-day workouts included drills for ball-handling, shooting off the dribble and jump shooting as well as weightlifting and long-distance runs on a track.

"I just wanted to come back in the best shape of my life as a professional," Tinsley said. "At Iowa State my first year I was 185 and I felt good. Going back and looking at the tapes of those games, it made me a better player being at that weight."
Link to story (http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/camp_tinsley_041008.html)

ChicagoJ
10-04-2006, 11:49 PM
Oh, and BTW I'm calling BULLS*** on this whole thread now...
From Bruno's own column in October 2004

Link to story (http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/camp_tinsley_041008.html)

How this thread ever reached 80-some posts is beyond me. Well, rehashing the Dujaun Wagner/ Chauncey Billups picture was worth while. But otherwise...

MagicRat
10-04-2006, 11:53 PM
So okay the brawl hits and he runs into a leg issue around mid-season. Allegedly it was misdiagnosed, but I'm sure we all have our questions about how it went down.

http://www.insidehoops.com/tinsley-interview-041805.shtml

InsideHoops.com: What's the latest on you and your health? (Readers: Again, note that this is from April 5)

Jamaal Tinsley: It's frustrating. Knowing I can't be out there. I'm just happy that they found out what's wrong with me, and I just got to deal with it right now. It's kind of frustrating knowing this is his (Reggie's) last year and I can't be out there and play. But things happen for a reason.

InsideHoops.com: And, as for your injury, it took a while to figure out exactly what was wrong, right?

Jamaal Tinsley: They didn't know what was wrong. The staff at Indiana, they didn't know what's wrong. Came up here (to New York) and right away I found out what's the problem. At the time when they didn't know what was wrong, I was getting treated, and that probably made it extend a little longer than it is, but it's just frustrating knowing that you don't know what's wrong and you think you're alright and you want to go out there and play, but the only thing you're doing is hurting it. But I just have to move on and now that I know what the problem is, I just got to get healthy.

InsideHoops.com: So now it's being treated correctly.

Jamaal Tinsley: It ain't no treatment. I just got to let it heal, and probably have surgery, who knows. But right now I just got to wait and see what the outcome is, and next time I'm with a doctor I know it's good.

InsideHoops.com: What are the chances you will need surgery? Any idea?

Jamaal Tinsley: Not at all. When I go back to the doctor in the next week or two, I'll find out everything

grace
10-05-2006, 12:35 AM
How this thread ever reached 80-some posts is beyond me. Well, rehashing the Dujaun Wagner/ Chauncey Billups picture was worth while. But otherwise...

Hey I learned that doing push ups in considered lifting weights. How I lived this long and never knew that is beyond me.

Since86
10-05-2006, 02:09 PM
But I do think it's funny that you'd bend semantics and definitions on things like lifting weights to include pushups, so it's not wasting my time. I respect your persistence.

I guess the one of the best undergrad schools in the nation for exercise science, and THE best grad school in the nation for it, twist semantics to fit their view.

Pushups being included in the weight lifting category is what we've been taught since day one of your first exsci class.

A bench press works the exact same muscles as push up, in the exact same position other than laying on your back as opposed to having your weight on your hands.

Sorry that a highly recognized institute doesn't teach the way YOU want it to be taught.

Since86
10-05-2006, 03:02 PM
As Rat already called it, silly semantics. Is this really what you think they meant when they said Tinsley was doing weight-training? Weight training typically implies isotonic training WITH WEIGHTS as opposed to other forms of muscle training that don't require weights, such as isometric training. Those terms are typically used to indicate different methods and rarely, if ever, is the term weight training applied to a set of isometic-only exercises in common usage.

Sure a PT might see it as inclusive of all the sub-forms of muscle building, but this isn't a 400 level physiology class, its a blurb from an NBA beat writer in a general purpose newspaper.

For all we know Tinsley "not weight training" meant "only" running with resistance for leg power/speed, regular variations of sprints and distance, push-ups, situps, crunches, etc. He was doing something in previous seasons to get in shape.


This is the VERY last post in this thread, from me.

You obviously don't know what an isometric exercise is. It's an exercise that doesn't fully contract the muscle, and keeps the joint angle the same throughout the exercise.

An example: Isometric curl is when you stand infront of a heavy desk, place your hands under the desk, and try to lift the desk up. Your muscle contracts slightly, but can't contract anymore due to the weight being too heavy to lift upwards.

THAT is an isometric exercise, because the joint angle stays the same throughout. Obviously the joint angle changes in pushups/situps.

A pushup is a PRIME example of a isotonic exercise, because your body parts are moving against a force, I.E. weights or the floor.

Naptown_Seth
10-05-2006, 03:02 PM
I guess the one of the best undergrad schools in the nation for exercise science, and THE best grad school in the nation for it, twist semantics to fit their view.

Pushups being included in the weight lifting category is what we've been taught since day one of your first exsci class.

A bench press works the exact same muscles as push up, in the exact same position other than laying on your back as opposed to having your weight on your hands.

Sorry that a highly recognized institute doesn't teach the way YOU want it to be taught.
Straw man.

You are defending how terminology within the PT paradigm is used when the rest of us are talking about common man usage. That doesn't make it "right", and you can have a great chuckle at the next PT conference about the morons in the everyday world that think pushups are different than lifting weights, but it won't change the reality that laymen do use terms in a different way.

If someone says their CPU was acting up I don't start a debate about how the central processing unit isn't the same as the entire computer and that even the on-chip cache isn't techincally the instruction processing section and is really just memory, etc, etc. If I did I'd get a blank "who gives a s***" look from them.

A ball has weight and shooting it requires lifting it, moving the weight with muscles. Care to point out to Bruno or Tinsley that technically shooting is included in the term weightlifting and that there is no need to mention it twice when describing his off-season regimen?


You obviously don't know what an isometric exercise is. It's an exercise that doesn't fully contract the muscle, and keeps the joint angle the same throughout the exercise.Actually because I am able to read and like to be sure of what I'm speaking about I obviously DID know (did validate with research) and was careful to phrase it correctly. I didn't say isometric never uses weights, because it can. Nor did I say that isotonic exercises had to use external weights. I said the term to the average joe IMPLIED "isotonic with weights" which clearly is not the same was "isometric with weights" or "isotonic without weights". That means that layman associate weightlifting with isotonics done with free weights or weight machines rather than someone pulling against their own muscle in an isometic exercise or just using a weight to hold the muscle in a fixed but exerted position.

The point isn't if they are correct in thinking this way, but is this what they had in mind or not when they used the term. You never did say that you thought that really Bruno or Tinsley were including all forms of weight training, including push-ups, when it was said that he had or hadn't done any.

Dude got out of bed and stood up. bam, weight training, all summer long. XBox - bam, resistance training on his muscles....his finger, hand and wrist muscles, but still.


Lighten up and stop letting pride drag you further into the semantics game. It's like watching EEs and Math guys argue about whether "j" or "i" represents the imaginary number, especially considering the average joe wouldn't think of the square root of negative one when you said imaginary number anyway. They'd probably think "fake phone number".

ChicagoJ
10-05-2006, 03:04 PM
Lighten up and stop letting pride drag you further into the semantics game. It's like watching EEs and Math guys argue about whether "j" or "i" represents the imaginary number (square root of -1).

That's good stuff right there.

Since86
10-05-2006, 03:04 PM
Straw man.

You are defending how terminology within the PT paradigm is used when the rest of us are talking about common man usage. That doesn't make it "right", and you can have a great chuckle at the next PT conference about the morons in the everyday world that think pushups are different than lifting weights, but it won't change the reality that laymen do use terms in a different way.

If someone says their CPU was acting up I don't start a debate about how the central processing unit isn't the same as the entire computer and that even the on-chip cache isn't techincally the instruction processing section and is really just memory, etc, etc. If I did I'd get a blank "who gives a s***" look from them.

A ball has weight and shooting it requires lifting it, moving the weight with muscles. Care to point out to Bruno or Tinsley that technically shooting is included in the term weightlifting and that there is no need to mention it twice when describing his off-season regimen?

Lighten up and stop letting pride drag you further into the semantics game. It's like watching EEs and Math guys argue about whether "j" or "i" represents the imaginary number (square root of -1).

I've already acknowledged that I WAS NOT aware he didn't include a pushup as lifting weights, and said I wasted our time.

I'll say it again: I did NOT know he wasn't including those types of exercies in weight training. I apologize for wasting your/my time.

That's three times I've said it, twice in this thread. Quit harping about it.

MagicRat
10-05-2006, 03:09 PM
A pushup is a PRIME example of a isotonic exercise, because your body parts are moving against a force, I.E. weights or the floor.

So a pushup is considered "lifting floor"......sweet...........;)

Naptown_Seth
10-05-2006, 03:38 PM
I've already acknowledged that I WAS NOT aware he didn't include a pushup as lifting weights, and said I wasted our time.

I'll say it again: I did NOT know he wasn't including those types of exercies in weight training. I apologize for wasting your/my time.

That's three times I've said it, twice in this thread. Quit harping about it.
I had nothing more to say about it till the "I guess my elite grad program is wrong" and the "obviously you don't understand the terms" responses, both of which implied that you were still defending the point.

I'm not sure what kind of response you were looking for when you made those posts, but to me they sounded rather arugmentative. Somehow I missed the point that by making those posts you were actually making a final concession about incorrectly using the literal definition rather than the common usage.

I will admit that I still don't understand how they meant that, but I will accept that they did with the misunderstanding lying squarely on me. I'm sorry to have belabored the point.

imawhat
10-05-2006, 04:07 PM
I bet you've heard the phrase "you're never wrong, are you?", 86. Just drop it. You were wrong, and you're still bending.

Since86
10-05-2006, 04:17 PM
Weight training is a form of exercise for developing the strength and size of skeletal muscles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weight_training

A press up or push up is a common strength training exercise performed in a prone position
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_up

Thank you. Good day.

MagicRat
10-05-2006, 04:28 PM
Not sure exactly what you proved there.

Seems like all of the people on the weight training page are using........weights.

The people on the push up page.....aren't.

Try this one.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calisthenics

calisthenics is a type of exercise consisting of a variety of simple movements usually performed without weights or other equipment...........

Examples of calisthenic exercises include:

Sit-ups/crunches
Push-ups
Squats

Since86
10-05-2006, 04:41 PM
Not sure exactly what you proved there.

Seems like all of the people on the weight training page are using........weights.

The people on the push up page.....aren't.

Try this one.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calisthenics

calisthenics is a type of exercise consisting of a variety of simple movements usually performed without weights or other equipment...........

Examples of calisthenic exercises include:

Sit-ups/crunches
Push-ups
Squats


Weight lifting isn't confined to plates, or dumbbells, and that's where it comes into play.

When you do a pushup, what are you doing exactly? You're extending your WEIGHT, up. Your body weight takes the place of plates and a bar when you do bench pressing.

It's the EXACT same movement, in terms of muscle contraction, but you can do more, more easily, on a bench.

A lat. pulldown is the EXACT same movement as a pullup, but with the machine you can pull down more weight.

Hicks
10-05-2006, 04:43 PM
Let. It. Go.

Please.

Not an admin comment, just an observer's comment. My god.

MagicRat
10-05-2006, 04:58 PM
Weight lifting isn't confined to plates, or dumbbells, and that's where it comes into play.

When you do a pushup, what are you doing exactly? You're extending your WEIGHT, up. Your body weight takes the place of plates and a bar when you do bench pressing.

It's the EXACT same movement, in terms of muscle contraction, but you can do more, more easily, on a bench.

A lat. pulldown is the EXACT same movement as a pullup, but with the machine you can pull down more weight.

I understand the movements.

If you want to call a pushup "lifting weight", go ahead. Can't call it "lifting weights", though, unless you stack some plates on your back. Sorry.

Diesel_81
10-05-2006, 11:36 PM
Too much weight on a frame not intended can be unhealthy.

It was also reported that JO worked his total body this year, instead of just his upper body. That get's you in big trouble, and I'd lay money on it that it was a big reason for his lower body injuries.

.

I agree with you so much on this. I still blame the pacers medical staff, for trying to bulk up Bender to be something that his body wouldn't allow him to be which was a powerforward. Bender might have been a bust anyway but I have a hard time believing his chicken legs could support his upper body. Of course nobody can prove it he might have been injury prone reguardless but I can bet adding that wieght hurt him more then helped him.
Same goes for Oneal. Yes he had to add strenght but his game was always based on quickness and agility and he lost it in his quest to become stronger. Sometimes I think people get way to carried away about adding bulk. Everybody should lift whether its athletes or your average joe but to add wieght and lose your quickness and agility in my opinion is just counter productive.

grace
10-06-2006, 02:09 PM
Let. It. Go.

Please.

Not an admin comment, just an observer's comment. My god.

Yesterday the way this thread degenerated might have been annoying. After what happened last night/this morning it's now somewhat entertaining.