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Vali
10-01-2006, 03:14 PM
Sorry if this has already been posted but... http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/carlisle_extension_060930.html

Unclebuck
10-01-2006, 03:35 PM
Very interesting

In addition, Carlisle has been given the title of Executive Vice President of Basketball Operations.

That tells me that perhaps after this season Rick will move into the front office, especially if DW retires

Jermaniac
10-01-2006, 03:37 PM
OMG WTF WHYYYYYY. This means that no way in hell they will fire him at the end of the season even if we suck. They wont want to pay 2 coaches, Jesus Christ what a dumbass front office. Whats to hold Carlisle back from going back to his dumbass offense now that he is secure?

Worst move ever.

Unclebuck
10-01-2006, 03:41 PM
OMG WTF WHYYYYYY. This means that no way in hell they will fire him at the end of the season even if we suck. They wont want to pay 2 coaches, Jesus Christ what a dumbass front office. Whats to hold Carlisle back from going back to his dumbass offense now that he is secure?

Worst move ever.


I guess this is a sure sign the season is about to start. Did you you not read the press release. Rick will be moving into the front office, why else give him that additional title.

Jermaniac
10-01-2006, 03:52 PM
He was given a contract extension I dont know when the hell he is moving into the front office. I dont want him in the front office either, this just means when the NBA draft comes around Rick is just going to tell Stern we dont want to do the draft, we dont want them young players.

Unclebuck
10-01-2006, 03:57 PM
He was given a contract extension I dont know when the hell he is moving into the front office. I dont want him in the front office either, this just means when the NBA draft comes around Rick is just going to tell Stern we dont want to do the draft, we dont want them young players.

Do you honestly believe he would do that. Rick is a very good basketball guy and if he has interest of moving into the front office, I would love to have him do that with the Pacers.

Do you really have to start with the Rick hate this early, I mean training camp open in a couple of days, the first preseason game is in a week and a half, why not wait to see his new offense

Jermaniac
10-01-2006, 04:04 PM
New offense
-Play very good basketball for 3 qtrs
-Get a 15 point lead
-Start playing that sad *** NBA version of the prevent defense that never works. Lose the lead, lose the game. New offense of the Indiana Pacers.

Unclebuck
10-01-2006, 04:06 PM
New offense
-Play very good basketball for 3 qtrs
-Get a 15 point lead
-Start playing that sad *** NBA version of the prevent defense that never works. Lose the lead, lose the game. New offense of the Indiana Pacers.

What is NBA's version of the prevent defense

Jermaniac
10-01-2006, 04:10 PM
The thing Rick Carlisle calls coaching when the Pacers have a big lead. You know when a NFL team starts playing prevent when they have a big lead? Yeah that, it never works but they still keep doing it.

Unclebuck
10-01-2006, 04:11 PM
The thing Rick Carlisle calls coaching when the Pacers have a big lead. You know when a NFL team starts playing prevent when they have a big lead? Yeah that, it never works but they still keep doing it.

I know what the NFL version is, but I don't know what you mean by Rick's version of the prevent

PacerFan31
10-01-2006, 04:23 PM
Could Carlisles possible move the front office next season, and this being Darrell Armstrongs last season point to DA taking over as the head coach after this season?

Jermaniac
10-01-2006, 04:24 PM
I know you watch the Pacers games, when we get a big lead, Rick totaly goes away from what we were doing and we slowly start losing the lead. He usually pulls out the hot hand before the lead starts going down, then he doesnt put the hot hand back in until the ship had already sunk.

He coaches the **** out of the team before the game but boy when the game starts to get tight and it really matters Rick gets that stupid look on his face like he doesnt know wtf just happen and sits there watching the team lose.

Ohh dear God I cant beleive I have to watch this **** for another 2-3 years. Damn it why did I start talking about this, now my day is ruined.

Arcadian
10-01-2006, 04:29 PM
Does this mean Rick is going to oversee the Fever? The title is under Donnie rather than the GM/Bird. I wish I knew what it meant.

Jermaniac
10-01-2006, 04:35 PM
But UB aint it good that we are back to arguing? It was getting real boring around here with out our daily arguments.

Bball
10-01-2006, 04:42 PM
Why in the world do some of you consider Darrell Armstrong a front runner for the head coaching position when it isn't even open? ...Let alone why would Darrell Armstrong be the #1 candidate if it was?

-Bball

Unclebuck
10-01-2006, 04:55 PM
But UB aint it good that we are back to arguing? It was getting real boring around here with out our daily arguments.

Yes it is, I can feel the season getting ready to start.

Bball, I agree with you, and I'll say it right now I don't want Armstrong as Pacers coach. He isn't a very smart player, never has been and never will be. He plays hard, but over the years he made a lot of really stupid plays as a point guard.

Jermaniac
10-01-2006, 05:44 PM
Yes it is, I can feel the season getting ready to start.

Its just about that time.

wintermute
10-01-2006, 07:07 PM
Why in the world do some of you consider Darrell Armstrong a front runner for the head coaching position when it isn't even open? ...Let alone why would Darrell Armstrong be the #1 candidate if it was?

-Bball

i guess it's the only way to justify our trading aj for him?

Hicks
10-01-2006, 08:02 PM
I think it's premature and a bit silly to suggest that Armstrong won't make a good coach because he made questionable plays as a PG.

As for Rick, I'm overall glad to see this get done; there was no one as good, or better, out there. And flaws and all, Rick's still pretty damn good.

Evan_The_Dude
10-01-2006, 10:40 PM
In case anyone else is wondering what 'Executive' Vice President of Basketball Operations means, I can't answer the question. But I can state the fact that Chris Mullin is the Vice President of Basketball Operations for the Golden State Warriors... There's no 'Executive' in Mullin's title, yet we know what power he has. Therefore, that means that Carlisle must have been given partial or full control of who plays here and who goes elsewhere.

So I guess that means when Walsh steps down, Bird will be the President, and Carlisle will be Vice? Not sure if I know what to think. Not sure if I like or dislike it. Does this mean we'll be seeing more Michael Curry-esque players on our roster in the future?

Eindar
10-01-2006, 10:53 PM
Well, I think more importantly, for the short-term this means that the players know that Carlisle is going nowhere. Cussing him out isn't just cussing out a coach, you're cussing out a VP of the org., which is bad times, I don't care who you are. It's an "F you" flag Rick can wave at players when they think about stepping out of line.

Long term, it's harder to say, but I think it does what I described above, and it also leaves a "plan B" if Rick loses the team again. He will then step into the front office, we'll get rid of a bunch of players, get a new coach, and start from scratch.

Unclebuck
10-01-2006, 11:02 PM
So Does this mean we'll be seeing more Michael Curry-esque players on our roster in the future?

What does that mean. What is a Michael Curry type player

Jermaniac
10-01-2006, 11:06 PM
Players that suck but are the coaches *****es.

Kegboy
10-02-2006, 12:03 AM
I think it's premature and a bit silly to suggest that Armstrong will make a good coach because he was a decent PG.


Fixed.

OTD
10-02-2006, 01:13 AM
VP basketball operations, sounds like some of the big corp. here in the US. More white shirts.

NorCal_Pacerfan
10-02-2006, 03:23 AM
First of all, this is good because Rick won't be a lame duck this year. Second, he's Larry's buddy, and it seems to me that as DW prepares to step back, Rick will step up and eventually someone else will coach. Rick and Larry will still be there at the top. Rick is a solid, intelligent and all around good guy. This is the way it works, guys bond and they move up and on with their career. Let's give Rick another year with this new team and approach, and see what happens. The players have to play and hold up their end of the deal, so it's not all on Carlisle to turn this ship around.

Naptown_Seth
10-02-2006, 09:44 AM
What is NBA's version of the prevent defense
Forget that, what I want to know is how a big fan like Jermaniac missed the 40 games where the Pacers fell apart in the 2nd or 3rd. Did he forget the home opener last year for example, where they felll completely apart in the late 2nd and early 3rd before staging a near comeback down the stretch.

Was that the reverse prevent?



If you think that a coach who put a roster missing that many players into the playoffs and who gave the Pacers their best regular season EVER is not a good coach, then sure you don't want him resigned. Me, I'd like to see another 60 win season rather than Larry Brown's missing the playoffs entirely with 1/4th the problems Rick has had to deal with the last 2 years.

I'm not sure I totally buy Rick going into the front office just yet. Heck, it could be an increase in his total power rather than a stepping stone. He's way too young to just leave coaching IMO, at least based on the success and apparent drive to do it that he has shown.

I wonder if Larry is thinking of moving out, or perhaps it's just that Rick will be "helping" Larry after DW steps out.


At the very least it would seem to be a sign to the players that Rick is here to stay and they can either buy into that or leave. That's a good direction to take things IMO.



Players that suck but are the coaches *****es.
And how long did Curry last when he was brought in? Let me guess, Haslip is a coach's ***** too? The place was a freaking meltdown and needed some maturity to stabalize the situation. I realize that YOU thought Gill was that leader or that James Jones was loaded with vet saavy, but to me it seemed like Rick wanted a voice on the court to counter the deer-in-headlights effect that I saw from everyone but Fred Jones the night after the brawl.

Dude played EIGHT games of 15 minutes or more for the Pacers and was on the roster only in DEC and JAN. Ron Artest played MORE MINUTES than Curry did for the 04-05 team. He's a union rep and someone Rick was familiar with. In fact there was some speculation that as a union rep he was brought in to help the Pacers cause in dealing with Stern over the Artest situation.


People pick pet causes and then champion them without regard to facts. Name the young player who didn't get 1500 minutes under Rick that you think should have...besides Prince. And once he did play Tay and saw the results he stuck with him the rest of those playoffs, including starting the ROOKIE in 3 of the 4 ECF games (which they were swept in, so it wasn't just as simple as playing Tay).

I'm not sure what logic proves a coach doesn't like to play young players when he starts a rookie in the ECFs, and not due to injury. He put his ***** Curry on the bench to get Prince the bigger minutes and eventually the start.


I don't get worked up because I want to defend Rick in this matter, I get worked up when people state "factual opinions", views that they feel are so obvious that everyone agrees, but which aren't really backed by any facts, and are actually contradicted by the facts even.


Rick likes to call the plays, Rick likes a conservative "protect the possession" offense, those are complaints that are at least factually valid to make. I won't agree that it's a bad thing, but at least it exists.

Rick won't play young players doesn't exist. Maybe the brawl is part of that, but Rick played Tay in the ECF and he played BENDER in the ECF and he played sophmore Fred Jones in the ECF; none were required by injury/roster issues. And again even if the brawl/injuries forced Rick to go to young guys it still doesn't change the fact that there are no seasons where Rick didn't play young players (other than Prince).

pizza guy
10-02-2006, 11:27 AM
Forget that, what I want to know is how a big fan like Jermaniac missed the 40 games where the Pacers fell apart in the 2nd or 3rd. Did he forget the home opener last year for example, where they felll completely apart in the late 2nd and early 3rd before staging a near comeback down the stretch.

Was that the reverse prevent?



If you think that a coach who put a roster missing that many players into the playoffs and who gave the Pacers their best regular season EVER is not a good coach, then sure you don't want him resigned. Me, I'd like to see another 60 win season rather than Larry Brown's missing the playoffs entirely with 1/4th the problems Rick has had to deal with the last 2 years.

I'm not sure I totally buy Rick going into the front office just yet. Heck, it could be an increase in his total power rather than a stepping stone. He's way too young to just leave coaching IMO, at least based on the success and apparent drive to do it that he has shown.

I wonder if Larry is thinking of moving out, or perhaps it's just that Rick will be "helping" Larry after DW steps out.


At the very least it would seem to be a sign to the players that Rick is here to stay and they can either buy into that or leave. That's a good direction to take things IMO.



And how long did Curry last when he was brought in? Let me guess, Haslip is a coach's ***** too? The place was a freaking meltdown and needed some maturity to stabalize the situation. I realize that YOU thought Gill was that leader or that James Jones was loaded with vet saavy, but to me it seemed like Rick wanted a voice on the court to counter the deer-in-headlights effect that I saw from everyone but Fred Jones the night after the brawl.

Dude played EIGHT games of 15 minutes or more for the Pacers and was on the roster only in DEC and JAN. Ron Artest played MORE MINUTES than Curry did for the 04-05 team. He's a union rep and someone Rick was familiar with. In fact there was some speculation that as a union rep he was brought in to help the Pacers cause in dealing with Stern over the Artest situation.


People pick pet causes and then champion them without regard to facts. Name the young player who didn't get 1500 minutes under Rick that you think should have...besides Prince. And once he did play Tay and saw the results he stuck with him the rest of those playoffs, including starting the ROOKIE in 3 of the 4 ECF games (which they were swept in, so it wasn't just as simple as playing Tay).

I'm not sure what logic proves a coach doesn't like to play young players when he starts a rookie in the ECFs, and not due to injury. He put his ***** Curry on the bench to get Prince the bigger minutes and eventually the start.


I don't get worked up because I want to defend Rick in this matter, I get worked up when people state "factual opinions", views that they feel are so obvious that everyone agrees, but which aren't really backed by any facts, and are actually contradicted by the facts even.


Rick likes to call the plays, Rick likes a conservative "protect the possession" offense, those are complaints that are at least factually valid to make. I won't agree that it's a bad thing, but at least it exists.

Rick won't play young players doesn't exist. Maybe the brawl is part of that, but Rick played Tay in the ECF and he played BENDER in the ECF and he played sophmore Fred Jones in the ECF; none were required by injury/roster issues. And again even if the brawl/injuries forced Rick to go to young guys it still doesn't change the fact that there are no seasons where Rick didn't play young players (other than Prince).

Very good post.

RC getting the extension is the best move available. He's one of the better coaches in the league, and there was certainly no better waiting for our call. The signing now prevents the "lame duck" issue. Finally, getting the fancy title for "Larry's understudy" is probably a way to get RC into the office at some point. I don't think it necessarily points to Armstrong moving into coaching right away, or any other immediate action. I believe LB and DW want RC to coach for this whole contract, with some stability in the team, then they'll see where to go at the end of this one.

Bball
10-02-2006, 11:52 AM
Maybe the new title is an 'escape clause' so that if things go south on the court Rick doesn't have to be 'fired' per se' (in the public's eye). He just steps aside for 'personal reasons' and assumes the sole duties of his new title instead of 'working both roles'.

-Bball

imawhat
10-02-2006, 12:53 PM
I'm so glad this was handled before the start of training camp, let alone the start of the season. We need as few distractions as we can get.

I like the angle that RC's new title adds to his authority. I don't know what he has to offer other than a very good basketball mind. Maybe we'll see.

Ragnar
10-02-2006, 03:10 PM
The distraction we needed to be rid of was Rick as the coach. I knew he would get an extension but its still disappointing non the less.

ChicagoJ
10-02-2006, 04:17 PM
Maybe the new title is an 'escape clause' so that if things go south on the court Rick doesn't have to be 'fired' per se' (in the public's eye). He just steps aside for 'personal reasons' and assumes the sole duties of his new title instead of 'working both roles'.

-Bball

Let's just hope he's into this new role by, say, December 15.

Frank Slade
10-02-2006, 06:56 PM
FYI..
I had emailed him for more info, and it appears this report was erroneous per Bruno. :eyebrow:


-----Original Message-----
From: Mailbag, Bruno's [mailto:Bruno's_Mailbag@PACERS.com]
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 8:55 AM
To: Andrew

Subject: RE: Why was Carlisle given a new title ?

Andrew -

This release was an erroneous posting and was removed. Please disregard
what you read. I apologize for the confusion. It was my mistake.
- Conrad



-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew [mailto:XXX@XXX.com]
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 9:46 PM
To: Mailbag, Bruno's
Subject: Why was Carlisle given a new title ?


Bruno in addition to Carlisle's anticipated extension, I was a
little surprised to hear he was also given the title Executive Vice
President of Basketball Operations.

What does this position entail?

While the length of the contract was not released, can we assume
that this indicates he will be moving to the front office sooner, rather
than later ?

Thanks,

Andrew

ChicagoJ
10-02-2006, 07:07 PM
So he's written the article, but they haven't actually agreed to terms yet?

Maybe somebody received a visit from the ghost of Christmas future?

ChicagoJ
10-02-2006, 07:09 PM
Although, I just clicked on the original link (above) and its still valid.

So he didn't take down the article, just the link. Odd.

ChicagoJ
10-02-2006, 07:11 PM
And The Star and AP have still not run articles about the hypothetical extension and new title.

I can still have hope this unravels, can't I? :devil:

Jermaniac
10-02-2006, 07:49 PM
Forget that, what I want to know is how a big fan like Jermaniac missed the 40 games where the Pacers fell apart in the 2nd or 3rd. Did he forget the home opener last year for example, where they felll completely apart in the late 2nd and early 3rd before staging a near comeback down the stretch.

Was that the reverse prevent?



If you think that a coach who put a roster missing that many players into the playoffs and who gave the Pacers their best regular season EVER is not a good coach, then sure you don't want him resigned. Me, I'd like to see another 60 win season rather than Larry Brown's missing the playoffs entirely with 1/4th the problems Rick has had to deal with the last 2 years.

I'm not sure I totally buy Rick going into the front office just yet. Heck, it could be an increase in his total power rather than a stepping stone. He's way too young to just leave coaching IMO, at least based on the success and apparent drive to do it that he has shown.

I wonder if Larry is thinking of moving out, or perhaps it's just that Rick will be "helping" Larry after DW steps out.


At the very least it would seem to be a sign to the players that Rick is here to stay and they can either buy into that or leave. That's a good direction to take things IMO.



And how long did Curry last when he was brought in? Let me guess, Haslip is a coach's ***** too? The place was a freaking meltdown and needed some maturity to stabalize the situation. I realize that YOU thought Gill was that leader or that James Jones was loaded with vet saavy, but to me it seemed like Rick wanted a voice on the court to counter the deer-in-headlights effect that I saw from everyone but Fred Jones the night after the brawl.

Dude played EIGHT games of 15 minutes or more for the Pacers and was on the roster only in DEC and JAN. Ron Artest played MORE MINUTES than Curry did for the 04-05 team. He's a union rep and someone Rick was familiar with. In fact there was some speculation that as a union rep he was brought in to help the Pacers cause in dealing with Stern over the Artest situation.


People pick pet causes and then champion them without regard to facts. Name the young player who didn't get 1500 minutes under Rick that you think should have...besides Prince. And once he did play Tay and saw the results he stuck with him the rest of those playoffs, including starting the ROOKIE in 3 of the 4 ECF games (which they were swept in, so it wasn't just as simple as playing Tay).

I'm not sure what logic proves a coach doesn't like to play young players when he starts a rookie in the ECFs, and not due to injury. He put his ***** Curry on the bench to get Prince the bigger minutes and eventually the start.


I don't get worked up because I want to defend Rick in this matter, I get worked up when people state "factual opinions", views that they feel are so obvious that everyone agrees, but which aren't really backed by any facts, and are actually contradicted by the facts even.


Rick likes to call the plays, Rick likes a conservative "protect the possession" offense, those are complaints that are at least factually valid to make. I won't agree that it's a bad thing, but at least it exists.

Rick won't play young players doesn't exist. Maybe the brawl is part of that, but Rick played Tay in the ECF and he played BENDER in the ECF and he played sophmore Fred Jones in the ECF; none were required by injury/roster issues. And again even if the brawl/injuries forced Rick to go to young guys it still doesn't change the fact that there are no seasons where Rick didn't play young players (other than Prince).

The only thing I know about Curry and Rick Carlisle that made me realize how much loves this dude, is when our so called big signing of the summer Stephen Jackson was coming back from suspension and Rick actually thought about starting Curry over him. THINKING about starting a player like Curry over Jack is crazy enough for me.

And the way I heard it was HE WAS FORCED to start Tayshaun over Curry in the playoffs.

Kegboy
10-02-2006, 07:50 PM
Although, I just clicked on the original link (above) and its still valid.

So he didn't take down the article, just the link. Odd.

Remember he's not the webmaster, NBA.com does everything. He probably told them to take it down and they just removed the link instead of the page.

:chin:


And The Star and AP have still not run articles about the hypothetical extension and new title.

I can still have hope this unravels, can't I?

Yes, because nothing ever happens until The Star reports it. :chuckle:

Doug
10-02-2006, 08:06 PM
THINKING about starting a player like Curry over Jack is crazy enough for me.

That sounds sane to me. There's days I think about starting the sign guy over Jack.

:-)

Jermaniac
10-02-2006, 08:12 PM
The sign guy is better at basketball then Curry.

Doug
10-02-2006, 08:14 PM
The sign guy is better at basketball then Curry.

On that we agree.

Bball
10-02-2006, 08:15 PM
And The Star and AP have still not run articles about the hypothetical extension and new title.

I can still have hope this unravels, can't I? :devil:

Herb Simon (coffee spraying the front of his computer monitor): "What's this.... Carlisle is getting a new title??? Who the hell's idea was THIS??? How many people do we need in charge of basketball operations? Somebody get Donnie on the phone...NOW!"

Secretary: "What about Larry?"

Herb: "Larry who?"

Secretary: "Larry Bird"

Herb: "Why?"

Secretary: "Doesn't he have some say in all this?"

Herb (laughing): "That's a good one! You almost had me there."

Secretary: "I try, sir. Donnie is on the line"

Donnie: "What is it, Herb?"

Herb: "Who's idea was it to give Carlisle a friggin' title, let alone an extension?!"

Donnie Walsh: "Well, I just thought...."

Herb: "Thought??? No you didn't! You didn't think! Just like with Al Harrington you're off spending money and years you don't need to spend. Let's reel this thing in. Hasn't the Bender fiasco taught you anything?"

Donnie: "I do apologize for that.... I just...."

Herb: "Enough! Get Bruno on the horn and make this go away! And get Larry a couple more weeks overseas for 'scouting'"

Donnie (laughing): "Scouting! Ha Ha... right... Gotcha. Sorry, about this screw up with the contract thing. It won't happen again"

Herb: "That's what you said after the Al Harrington thing. Just go spin the press and let us run the show now"

Secretary: "Herb, Larry Bird's on the phone. He says he's found a great center in Baklistan. What do you want me to tell him?"

Herb: "Tell him I'm not here and make sure you remind him that we need him to hold a party for the VIPs and to get those 8x10's autographed before the season opener!!!"



-Bball

Frank Slade
10-02-2006, 10:32 PM
Did anyone catch the 10' oclock news. (UPN) Wish TV
Mentioning that Carlisle asked the players if they wanted him back as coach, apparently.

O'Neal commented on how good Rick did in the offseason in reaching out to the players. Carlisle indicated that he wanted to be perfectly clear that this is a partnership, and goes beyond a player coach relationship

Hicks
10-02-2006, 10:37 PM
That's interesting.

3rdStrike
10-02-2006, 10:49 PM
Rick's one of the best coaches in the NBA. I absolutely hate the slow halfcourt set that the Pacers have used the past few years, but it has gotten them to the playoffs despite a plethora of obstacles. I suppose you wanted him to run a fast paced offense with Anthony Johnson, Jeff Foster, Stephen Jackson and the SF (backup/Peja)?

He's got the chips to work with now, finally.

Extending his contract now was the best move the Pacers could have done.

Naptown_Seth
10-03-2006, 01:56 AM
Did anyone catch the 10' oclock news. (UPN) Wish TV
Mentioning that Carlisle asked the players if they wanted him back as coach, apparently.

O'Neal commented on how good Rick did in the offseason in reaching out to the players. Carlisle indicated that he wanted to be perfectly clear that this is a partnership, and goes beyond a player coach relationship
To me that is very much in keeping with how Rick presents himself.

He is far more protective of players in post-games than most coaches. He's ripped guys from time to time, but he's also very quick to come back with praise when its earned.

He was very calm after the brawl, moreso than anyone else that I recall. He gave huge public support to Ron during his DPOY season. It's not that I think he is a players-coach in the "no discipline" sense, but I think he is old school in the "keep it in the lockerroom" sense. He is respectful about how he deals with players, at least externally.


Also on that story, I guess Jack came into Rick's presser and hung out a little bit, showing his support for the coach. Of course it would be far bigger news if it had been Tinsley, but still it is something.

Naptown_Seth
10-03-2006, 02:21 AM
THINKING about starting a player like Curry over Jack is crazy enough for me.
You mean like starting Foster "over" Harrington but then letting Al get 30 minutes to Jeff's 15?


And the way I heard it was HE WAS FORCED to start Tayshaun over Curry in the playoffs.
Like I said, Tay was the starter in THREE of the FOUR ECF losses in year 2 for Rick, so even if he was forced to do it, what's that say about the choice? It wasn't the solution. And the proof was in the results the next year until they got Sheed added on for free. Prior to that the Pistons were on their way to being beaten out by the Pacers, and as it was dumping Rick cost them home court in the ECF (rival Pacers jumped 13 wins with Rick).

How did that Pistons team do in round 2 with Curry starting but Tay getting more minutes down the stretch? They sure as F didn't get swept out like they did in the next round with Tay moved into the starters role.

I don't even blame Tay or say it was a bad move, just that as a damning sign of RC's refusal to play young players it's pretty weak.

The reality is that winning teams with established vets rarely play mid to late round rookies. It's not the norm where RC refuses to conform. Fred got 3 times the minutes under RC in year 2 than he got under "player friendly" Isiah in his rookie year. That was the 61 win team, not one dealing with injuries or lacking in talent.

RC ran a deeper bench both years in Detroit and in Indy in 03-04 than Brown did in either year in Detroit (more minutes past the starting 5 or even the top 6). And in Tay's rookie season RC played his 23 year old rookie 19 mpg in 72 games....OKUR. Whoops, I thought RC refused to play young guys/rookies.

I know, it was the lack of bigs like Robinson, Big Ben and Corliss...err...oh, and Rebraca. Speaking of Rebraca, he was older (29) but his rookie year was RC's first season - 16 mpg and 72 games for him that year. That's more minutes than he's seen in any season since.

Fool
10-03-2006, 11:15 AM
Naptown, I'm fine with your overall statement but I've just got to comment on a couple of things since you've ventured over into Pistons-land in this last post.


Like I said, Tay was the starter in THREE of the FOUR ECF losses in year 2 for Rick, so even if he was forced to do it, what's that say about the choice? It wasn't the solution. And the proof was in the results the next year until they got Sheed added on for free. Prior to that the Pistons were on their way to being beaten out by the Pacers, and as it was dumping Rick cost them home court in the ECF (rival Pacers jumped 13 wins with Rick).

It doesn't seem funny to you to try saying something like "dumping Rick cost them home court in the ECF (rival Pacers jumped 13 wins with Rick)" when the Pistons beat that juggernaught of a Rick Carlisle team on the way to their championship? I know, it was all Rasheed and Rick would have gotten them the same title and maybe 2 or 3 more had they kept him.

The whole "it wasn't the solution" comment will be addressed after the next quote.


How did that Pistons team do in round 2 with Curry starting but Tay getting more minutes down the stretch? They sure as F didn't get swept out like they did in the next round with Tay moved into the starters role.

You are comparing round 2 with round 3 as though they are the same situations and implying that Curry starting was the main factor (or even the only factor) of why the Pistons did better in round 2 then they did in round 3?

Curry never had more than 4 points in ANY of those round 2 games and his biggest statistical contribution outside of points would be the 2 defensive rebounds he wasn't able to dive out of the way from, in one of the games that round. Curry starting is not what got them past the Sixer. This is what got them past the Sixers. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ripMtD9Hups)

That, coupled with Curry's typical high-caliber ability to always avoid the ball is what got Curry 2 DNPs against the Nets the next round (even with Tayshaun getting owned by Richard Jefferson, a trend that would continue beyond that playoff round). No, Tayshaun wasn't the answer to a how the Pistons would get to the Finals (the kid was a rookie), but he was the answer to "Are the Pistons really going to get ran out of the playoffs in the first round by a one man, eight seed, Magic team?" and the question of "Where is the swing man that can take advantage of slow footed Keith Van Horn and too-small-to-guard-a-forward Aaron McKie in the Sixers series?"



I don't even blame Tay or say it was a bad move, just that as a damning sign of RC's refusal to play young players it's pretty weak.

He was "forced" to play Prince and it's not "pretty weak". Its maybe the main reason RC lost his job even though he won a ton of regular season games. Regardless of how Carlisle coaches now, THEN he was an unadapting, single-minded, control freak, who had to be taken to the very edge of elimination before he'd try anything he didn't already have complete comfort with.


The reality is that winning teams with established vets rarely play mid to late round rookies. It's not the norm where RC refuses to conform. Fred got 3 times the minutes under RC in year 2 than he got under "player friendly" Isiah in his rookie year. That was the 61 win team, not one dealing with injuries or lacking in talent.

RC ran a deeper bench both years in Detroit and in Indy in 03-04 than Brown did in either year in Detroit (more minutes past the starting 5 or even the top 6). And in Tay's rookie season RC played his 23 year old rookie 19 mpg in 72 games....OKUR. Whoops, I thought RC refused to play young guys/rookies.

I know, it was the lack of bigs like Robinson, Big Ben and Corliss...err...oh, and Rebraca. Speaking of Rebraca, he was older (29) but his rookie year was RC's first season - 16 mpg and 72 games for him that year. That's more minutes than he's seen in any season since.

The rest I have little to no problem with (aside from the fact that you throw out Detroit's big man rotation that year as though it were Wallace/Wallace/McDyess when in fact it was Ben, a guy hanging on to the last years of his declining abilities, and an undersized-PF/slow-footed SF who was an able scorer but easily exploited defensively, so playing the rookies was pretty much a necessity rather than the luxury you make it out to be).

Like I said at the start, I've no problem with the overall point of "RC does play rookies" (he played Granger, didn't he?) but no one should ever try to defend Rick's affinity for Michael Curry nor his tight-fisted refusal to try Tayshaun until he was utterly devoid of other options, let alone attempt both things at once.

edc
10-04-2006, 06:07 AM
Hi

Question: If Donnie Walsh retires and Larry Bird assume his role What is David Morway role?

Pacers should not let go David Morway. I think he is the one responsible of the New Orleans trade that got us the excemption......(I know the Simons is also responsible because of the Friendship with George Shinn.

ChicagoJ
10-04-2006, 12:45 PM
Excellent point. If I had to pick Donnie's successor from people currently employed by the organization, I'd rank them as:

1) Morway
2) Chuck Person
3) Carlisle
4) Krista, my account rep
5) Larry Bird

vapacersfan
10-04-2006, 12:51 PM
Excellent point. If I had to pick Donnie's successor from people currently employed by the organization, I'd rank them as:

1) Morway
2) Chuck Person
3) Carlisle
4) Krista, my account rep
5) Larry Bird

How did Krista get in over me? :cry:

ChicagoJ
10-04-2006, 01:08 PM
I didn't know you were working for the Pacers...

I'm not sure you'd get above Krista on the list. She seemed eager for SJax to be traded so she'd have a better chance of selling ticket renewals.

But you'd certainly make my top-five.

vapacersfan
10-04-2006, 01:26 PM
I didn't know you were working for the Pacers...

I'm not sure you'd get above Krista on the list. She seemed eager for SJax to be traded so she'd have a better chance of selling ticket renewals.

But you'd certainly make my top-five.

I dont, at least not yet.

I appreciate making the top 5, though. That's higher then my girlfriend (well ex) would put me :laugh:

_PD_
10-04-2006, 01:39 PM
I like the angle that RC's new title adds to his authority.

Yep. This is flexibility and authority wrapped into one.
Flexible in that whenever TPTB get tired of Rick as a coach he can fill Donnie's shoes and DW can take that exact moment to retire. We can hire a new coach and not end of paying for two at the same time. TPTB obviously see something important enough there that they want to keep RC around, but can opt him out of his coaching duties at any time, i.e. if the Pacer Contract with America goes south.

I've always assumed that a coach could get rid of a player at any time, but that isn't necessarily so. The new title gives the players a warning that RC has more authority than ever on whether they play or get traded. Just more support for the coach and a stick to enforce the new "togetherness".

ChicagoJ
10-04-2006, 02:12 PM
I dont, at least not yet.

I appreciate making the top 5, though. That's higher then my girlfriend (well ex) would put me :laugh:

I hope she at least ranks you higher than Larry Bird, though. Obviously, I do.

vapacersfan
10-04-2006, 02:55 PM
I hope she at least ranks you higher than Larry Bird, though. Obviously, I do.

I doubt it.

She said OJ was a better man then I.

Granted I did not make it better by asking if she meant "is" better then me?

Back on topic, when does Donnies contract run out? I thought I heard last year that his contract ran out last season?

NuffSaid
10-04-2006, 04:52 PM
FYI..
I had emailed him for more info, and it appears this report was erroneous per Bruno. :eyebrow:

Thanks for clearing this up. I was wondering why there wasn't a link to RC's alleged extension on the Pacers.com. You'd think that if this were an official report, the press release would certainly be there.

Looks like they're still hammering out the details.

NuffSaid
10-05-2006, 06:25 PM
Now, it's official! Congratulations, RC!!

Link here (http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/digest_061005.html).

Frank Slade
10-05-2006, 08:47 PM
Now, it's official! Congratulations, RC!!

Link here (http://www.nba.com/pacers/news/digest_061005.html).

Carlisle Gets New Title With Extension

By Conrad Brunner | Oct.5, 2006

In signing what was termed a "multi-year" contract extension in the team's official announcement today, Coach Rick Carlisle didn't just stabilize his footing for the present. He may have laid the groundwork for his professional future.


As part of the agreement, Carlisle was given the title Executive Vice President of Basketball Operations.

"That's something they certainly didn't have to do but part of the agreement is to, at some point, join the front office if I want to do that," Carlisle said. "That's a very unusual gesture to make and me and my family are very appreciative of it."

Carlisle joined the Pacers in 1997 as an assistant to then-Coach Larry Bird, spending three seasons on the bench. After two seasons as head coach in Detroit he rejoined President of Basketball Operations Bird in 2003 and has compiled a 146-100 record.

Overall, Carlisle has a 246-164 record in five seasons as a head coach with five playoff berths, three Central Division titles, two trips to the Eastern Conference Finals and one NBA Coach of the Year award.

Carlisle is the only coach in NBA history to finish in the top five in Coach of the Year balloting in each of his first four seasons, and he and Pat Riley are the only coaches to win at least 50 games and division titles in their first three seasons on the bench.

"I was confident we'd come to some kind of an agreement and things worked out well," Carlisle said. "This is an unusual relationship.

This will be the 10th year I've had a very close relationship with Larry and Donnie going back to my years as an assistant and it just shows we've got a common vision for the team not only this year but for the future of the franchise and that's really important."

Carlisle was entering the final season of his original contract with the Pacers, but Jermaine O'Neal said that had little effect on the team's mindset or preparation for the season.

"Rick has not brought it up one time since we showed up on Monday for our meetings, but we're all happy for him," O'Neal said. "He's doing a hell of a job so far in training camp and his message is getting across to everybody."

Carlisle's first season with the Pacers was nearly idyllic, with an NBA-high 61 victories and a trip to the conference finals. His second was nightmarish, plagued by suspensions and injuries that stripped the roster of its prime talent, but he nevertheless cobbled together a 44-38 season and a first-round playoff victory. Last year was the most frustrating as injuries and team discord led to a 41-41 mark and first-round elimination.

This, his fourth season, brings along with 11 new players and the renewal of faith in the head coach an opportunity for a fresh start for all involved.

"I'm glad we got it done," said Bird. " … I think he deserves a fair chance and hopefully we'll stay away from injuries and see what we can do."


DIAPER DANDIES AND BEAUTY QUEENS

O'Neal and Jeff Foster spent a lot of offseason time in the hospital, which unfortunately hasn't been that unusual in recent years.
This year, however, it wasn't for surgery or therapy or rehabilitation of a nagging injury. The players were there instead for their wives, both of whom gave birth in June in the same hospital. Foster's wife Jamie delivered twins (a boy and a girl) while O'Neal's wife Mesha delivered a son.

"J.O.'s son and our twins were born one day apart," said Foster. "It was quite the experience for the people at the hospital to see both of wandering around the hallways for a week or so."

It was a big summer for family matters and the Pacers. Sarunas Jasikevicius was married to Israeli model and former Miss World Linor Abargil in a ceremony near Barcelona, Spain, in July.


A VERY HAIRY TRAINING CAMP

New hairstyles have generated something of a buzz at camp. Al Harrington has eschewed the clean look for a Mohawk; Jermaine O'Neal has ditched his braids for a more traditional look dubbed a "low Caesar;" and Stephen Jackson has gone to a different style with longer braids.

The newcomers are chipping in nicely, too, with Marquis Daniels sporting dreadlocks and Josh Powell long braids. "Marquis has the dreds, I rock the braids, Al rocks the Mohawk," said Jackson, "and Jermaine's got the rock-star, all-the-ladies-love-me look with the low Caesar."

O'Neal described his look as "the new sexy."


MACKEY FEATURED IN SCOUTING SERIES

Veteran coach and current Pacers scout Kevin Mackey is the subject of an interesting feature series on ProBasketballNews.com written by veteran basketball scribe David Friedman. The series, entitled "A Scout's-Eye View of the Game," offer a fascinating look at how Mackey and other scouts go about their jobs.

There's not only detail about what a scout looks for in a player both in terms of talent and basketball savvy, but a wealth of the enteraining anecdotes. Mackey says of one player, "He has hands like feet.

You can find guys like that under a bridge. I bring guys like that (to training camp), I won't have a job." In the second part of a series, Mackey gives readers a look at how scouts break down game film

rexnom
10-05-2006, 09:18 PM
I think it's a fantastic move. I'm a Rick Carlisle fan so...yeah. I think he'll have a Gregg Poppovich-esque role here. That's fine with me. Brilliant basketball minds aren't exactly a dime a dozen.